Prove how a diet incorporating meat and dairy is better than a plant-based diet
Hard mode:
1. No appeals to Nature
>eating meat is natural!!!!
2. No appeals to Emotion
>meat tastes better, how can you give it up!??!!!!!
3. No Slippery Slope
>if we stop eating meat, then there will be too many farm animals and we will all die!!!!
4. Know the difference between the lifestyle of Veganism (which isn't in question), the character of a Vegan (which isn't in question) and a plant-based diet
>All of the vegans I have met are pretentious, and so because this is a negative characteristics a plant-based diet therefore can't be good
Interested to see what you think
>>69754055
No.
Go fuck yourself, Auscuck.
>>69754145
why
Countries that eat a lot of meat and dairy = First world paradises like Australia
Countries that eat plant based diets = India and whatever shithole your parents came from
Nothing more need be said.
Why does it have to be all one or the other
>>69754055
It's tastier and more socially acceptable. That's literally it.
>>69754530
Countries that eat a lot of meat and dairy = countries whose people are most likely to die from heart disease, cancer, diabetes (all diet related)
Countries that eat plant based are shit due to other factors (political, economic etc. etc. )
I know you were shitposting but just thought I'd answer for interest
>>69754055
I've been a vegetarian for a year and have been feeling better than ever.
What made you take the jump to vegan?
a diet that incorporates meat spurs a lot of useful byproducts and creates a lucrative economic engine that can't be substituted.
>>69754845
I know you're a shitposting strayan but those people who eat veggies only and shit because of their weak ass diet so they don't have the strength to do anything of substance except shit prodigiously in designated streets
>>69754055
>No appeals to Nature
>No appeals to Emotion
>No slippery Slope
>Prove something without an argument
Fuck off OP. The "no appeals to nature" and "slippery slope" really get to me. Does a meat-eater need any other argument. The usual argument FOR veganism is some ethical shit, but if we all went vegan now (not that it would ever happen) billions of animals would die (potentially much more painfully if we don't euthanize them all) and nearly every domesticated species will go extinct because they can't survive in the wild.
>>69754592
A diet consisting of meat and dairy also consists of a lot of plant-based elements. Fruits, vegetables, nuts, grains, etc. etc.
A plant-based diet is the same but just removes the products derived from animals
So you could meet halfway and just minimise meat and dairy - you're right it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. But, for the sake of the argument it's more convenient to presuppose that we are talking about a pure plant-based diet to a standard diet
Protein and better immunity.
Friend of mine tried going vegan, got super thin, but damn was he sick with something all the time.
>>69754845
Meat and dairy aren't diabetes related, it's the grains that would replace them in a plant based diet that are the cause, they're also primarily responsible for the obesity epidemic as evidenced by looking at how our diets have changed in the past few decades.
>>69755019
Very true, and veganisn causes cancer in some genomes
>>69754055
COMPLETE PROTEINS
vegetarians have to go out of their way to make sure they get 'em all
>>69754944
I never really cared for animals like ethical vegans. If i had to - i would slaughter any animal to survive and eat it gladly. In fact, it tastes great
But the greatest threat to our survival in the 21st century isn't a sabre-toothed tiger, and our sources of energy aren't calorie scarce - we live in an age where chronic, non-infectious, diet related diseases kill us. The most likely reason the person you love, or a friend, or family will die is heart disease - yet the only factor contributing to it is diet.
And humans are capable of both eating minimal fruit/veggies like eskimo's, as well as eating minimal meat/dairy like some rural african/chinese communities. It's not a question of "oh well this is more natural"
It's a question of what, in our context, is the diet that will provide us with the best reactants, enzymes, co-enzymes in order to allow our body to run, and to run effectively
So - it's fundamentally a choice of what nutrition is the best. Now, this is where it gets really sticky and subjective, as the nature of scientific research and the community, as well as lobbyist groups and politics come in to play.
Essentially, the answer is to do your own research into the nutritional benefits of Veganism as a opposed to the S.A.D (Standard American diet), and even a vegetarian diet.
I would never condemn anyone for choosing to eat a different way. Hell, I only turned vegan less than a year ago. All I hope for is that people are open to learning and improving themselves (but this comes with a lot of resistance and name-calling and being put down by others around you)
>>69755019
I agree. That is an irrefutable reason against plant-based diets.
However, i find that the margin of benefit from the loss is minimal compare the margin of benefit that is gained from eating meat and dairy (ie. the poor health it causes)
So it's a choice between a lesser of two evils
>>69755799
>benefits of Veganism as a opposed to the S.A.D (Standard American diet)
The benefits of a diet in which nutrition is even considered vs one that emphasizes taste above all else? Who'd have thunk one would be healthier than the other.
Keto autism would look similarly impressive if that's your comparison.
Meat is not the problem when it comes to an unhealthy diet.
The problem is overly processed foods that incorporate compounds from the Pharmaceutical and Petro-chemical industries.
Meat is not a DAILY requirement. In fact, a healthy diet has most meals of the day being vegetarian (not Vegan, that is insane).
Then throw in some meat dishes either for one meal a day, or one meal every other day.
And avoid overly processed food.
>>69754055
Meat based diet is responsible for the rapid hominid brain development eventually leading to the Homo genus and modern humans.
>>69756146
That's it
- The industrialisation of meat/dairy is destructive (growth hormones etc.).
- Meat is not a daily requirement - it can be DRASTICALLY minimised.
- Processed food - doesn't even need to be explained
But - the idea of Veganism being crazy I disagree with. Extreme, yes; but it is sustainable and promotes health regardless
>>69754055
Real talk OP. It's perfectly fine and possible to live off a vegetarian or a vegan diet as a regular person. However if you want to do bodybuilding or hardcore physical activity then you just have to eat meat because there is no way to get the protein you need otherwise. Also who gives a fuck what you eat as long as you don't lord it over people.
>>69754055
your shit smells like plants...
>>69754055
It's a reliable source of protein and it comes from animals which serve no other purpose than to be eaten. A cow is not the aurochs anymore, a cow is for eating, that is its only purpose.
people who switch to vegetarian diets report low amounts of energy
Who gives a fuck either way? Do whatever you want. This is why people hate vegans btw
>>69754055
1. Eating meat made us Homo Sapiens.
http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
2. Its has gateway capabilities, our minds chemically crave it. Gateway Tofu doesnt exist.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/02/02/133304206/why-bacon-is-a-gateway-to-meat-for-vegetarians
3. This point doesn't make sense rewrite it.
4. this point is a waste of time. This is for you.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/07/the-four-types-of-drunk-personalities/399137/
>>69756532
I understand your point, but it is possible
And yes, you can't control what other people desire - but it is an issue and should be brought up. I don't give a shit what anyone eats though, just as long as they are conscious of their health actions and consequences
>>69756968
But your image doesn't answer the question, though.
>>69756838
>who gives a fuck either way?
People concerned with their health. I don't care what you eat as long as you are conscious of the effects it has on your health
>Do whatever you want
I understand you didn't elaborate what you meant properly - but if this is what you actually meant, it's no different to saying a degenerate can do whatever he wants. You either view every diet as being okay and hence having no measure of its value - or believe there are better diets than others. If the latter is the case, then why would you not be interested in your best health? Unless you are ignorant or degenerate, of course
>This is why people hate vegans btw
see >4
just because vegans challenge you to reassess your beliefs, doesn't mean that veganism or a plant-based diet is bad. Vegan (person) =/= Veganism (idea/lifestyle) =/= Plant-based diet (nutrition)
I hate a lot of vegans too because they are pretentious. but that's the same with everyone in literally every group to ever exist
>>69754055
protein, healthy fats, vitamins and minerals (specifically b12 and zinc), pleasure. veg life is for monks and other assorted spiritual seekers. if you really wanted to be ''ethical' you would kill yourself and leave the planet human.
>>69757039
>if you want to do bodybuilding or hardcore physical activity then you just have to eat meat because there is no way to get the protein you need otherwise
The bodybuilder the picture refers to literally is an example that proves his point wrong. It is harder to get protein on a plant-based diet, but it's not that there isn't "no way"
>>69754055
i like to eat meat.
>>69756968
>171 cm tall
>tall
>>69756968
anecdotal? You'r forgetting he is a genetic GOD. Which is a shame sense he's not even the strongest weight lifter any more. If he eat meat he would be 10x better
>>69755371
Saying "etc etc" is redundant and makes you sound like a massive fucking idiot. Don't do that shit OP.
>>69757471
>cherry picking: the post
genetically he is an outlier. Do you know how much protein powder you would need to get that way through veganism? a shit ton. Eating a purely whole foods based diet you would never get there and there are a lot of sickly looking vegans as well. 80% plant based 20% animal based is what would work best for most of humanity.
>>69754055
a shift to an entirely vegan agriculture would increase and cement our dependency on chemical fertilizers, which are already an ecological disaster
vegan diets (and vegetarian) are appearing to be less and less the ideal healthy diet. And while they are certainly MASSIVELY better than the average american diet of a pound or more of processed meats a day, more and more evidence seems to be popping up indicating minor meat consumption is beneficial to health.
i personally chose the pescetarian/dairy diet. because fish are lesser life forms and have about the same value of life as a bug. also fish is delicious, healthier than red meat, and i dont like poultry
>>69754055
I tried having a plant only lunch the other day for Lent and i just couldn't. It felt like eating raw paper.
In my diet the vegetable accompanies the meat not the other way around. I could survive a year without plants but not even two days without meat
>>69757836
>strawman: the post
my argument never was that it had to be purely whole foods - I only said it is possible. I agree that it is still harder
>>69754055
Animal feed can be grown on marginal lands. It's not a 1:1 conversion between feed for animals and feed for people.
will get to replying to other comments later. For now i am going to meet up with all my Newtown Vegan hipster friends and try and convert all meat and dairy eaters as part of my evil vegan mission to convert the entire world, because... well... you know, i'm vegan and that's what vegans do (apparently)
>>69758225
>>69758053
also vegans are less intelligent because of a chronic lack of b12, omega 3s and saturated fats, which the brain needs to work well. also vegans are low test and your mission of converting the world to veganism will turn everyone into limp dicked retards.
>>69757402
you're point about being harder to access proteins, fats, etc. is true. However, alternatives can be found and are accessible, whereas compared to the margin of benefit from a diet including meat and dairy, the plant-based diet is better. Because, whilse losing some access to nutrition like you said, you aren't getting the detrimental health impacts that meat and dairy provide
You're second point though has no relevance. Also, i am not an "ethical" vegan.
>>69758639
You can find effective alternative sources of those nutrients though, other than from meat and dairy
and I was just joking about the conversion mate relax. I have to tutor some students for math/bio/chem
>>69758703
meat is seen as unhealthy because it is super high fat, processed, factory farmed, gmo fed and chemically toxic. Clean mostly lean meat from a good environment is a net benefit for the body and has little to no detrimental effects. Guess what plants grown with chemical fertilizers and pesticides instead of using good high mineral soil is also also bad for your health. Might as well give up food all together. People seriously under estimate how polluted the environment is because its been that way for so long. ppl forget that 100 years ago cancer was a RARE disease. unless you live up in the mountains with good high mineral soil, clean air and access to a spring you fucked too buddy even with your veggie autism.
>margin of benefit
ok buddy, eat a steak for gods sake.
vegetables don't give you nearly as much of a mana boost.
>>69754055
How many Olympic athletes are vegan?
>>69759087
you can get saturated fats from coconuts. animal source is the only decent source for b12 and omega 3 in the amounts humans need.
>>69758639
most vegans just supplement b12, its literally like veganism 101 because you almost die or die without it (lots gloss over zinc and iron though)
omega 3s are ample from things like flax and chia seeds
hell you should supplement b12 even if you eat meat because a large portion of people with omnivore diets still have b12 deficiency, I know i take supps daily.
sat fat is true for vegans, though most people still consider them to be blanket unhealthy or at best health-neutral
>>69759708
there is more omega 3 in 1 sardine than in a whole days worth of chia. nigger is the life of a sardine that precious to you? like why not care about the plants then? wtf is the big deal?
>>69754845
>heart disease, cancer, diabetes (all diet related)
Related to sugar.
The amount of sugar we put into our systems is insane.
>>69759964
well i do eat fish and nowhere did i say i was vegan
and my point stands, also you're massively incorrect and one tbsp of flaxseed has like 10 sardines of omega 3s
