this kills the lolbertarian
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>this kills the lolbertarian
Not an argument.
>>69750576
t. Alberto Barbosa
>MUH ROADS
>Implying you don't pay for driving on Freeways
>Implying Public Transportation in US isn't a disaster
>Implying you aren't retarded
I finally drove on a long, unpaved mountain road for the first time the other day. It felt really cool, like I was actually using my car to its fullest capacity.
Kinda sad that before long all roads everywhere will be paved and we'll be driven along by jewish robots hooked up to VR sex and bad coffee dispensers.
>>69750538
Australian freeways...
>>69750538
>Russia
>Libertarian
>>69750538
A libertarian society would probably have roads built by corporations, like railroads used to be. I would rather drive on roads built by the state myself, but sometimes the state has less money than the multi-national corporations.
>>69750538
>libertarian truck
>>69750771
> jewish robots hooked up to VR sex and bad coffee dispensers.
How is this a bad thing? You would rather test your useless driving skill than have VR and relaxation while travelling?
>>69751038
crap forgot pic
>slower speeds
>no tailgaters
>safer
>non-existant fatalities
>less dependence on camel niggers for oil
>fun, no gay ass smart cars, all 4x4s and manly as fuck preserving male utility because women can't figure 4x4 out.
i see few problems
Fun fact: that photo is from the Trans-Amazonian Highway which was """""""""""""""""""""built""""""""""""""""""""" during the military regime, the apex of Brazilian statism
>implying no free market solutions
the free market would save us, because we would all have ATVs
its missing toll booths
>>69750538
There are many things wrong with American Libertarianism (really the Libertarian Party specifically, the moderate Libertarians in the Republican party like Rand are fine) but this is just a shitty argument because someone will build roads but force people to just pay a absolute fuckton of money to use it.
>>69750576
not a road
>>69750614
>LOOK MOM, I POSTED IT AGAIN!
>>69750538
>the market cannot supply the demand for roads
I've never seen a valid argument for such a claim.
>>69751438
>but this is just a shitty argument because someone will build roads but force people to just pay a absolute fuckton of money to use it.
Yeah, it's not like the state governments don't already do this (additional to taxes)
>>69751408
The free market will allow one company to monopolize the ATV market and raise prices through the roof.
Or it could deem that it's more profitable to fix broken cars and hence not produce atvs raising their prices.
Or it could advertise and sell you on the idea to buy an expensive helicopter instead.
Free markets don't necessarily satisfy demand.
>>69750538
Pfft. A true blue owns a 4x4 so this is a non-issue
>>69751494
t. Alberto Barbosa
>>69750538
a drive a jeep and there are several shit roads like this near where i live 2bh
>>69751722
Competition can arise without government intervention. Crony capitalism, preventing competition, is an inevitability of capitalism + over reaching governments.
>>69751637
Ok, how about the railway system in the US before the Anti-trust laws.
>inb4 only guberments cause monopolies
>inb4 capitalism is pure and infallible
>>69751931
>Not an LJ Rubicon
>>69751947
No, companies naturally want to prevent competition. Companies hate competition.
>>69751637
Ron Paul is such a dumb cunt. North Korea has been isolated from the world since the dmz
test
>>69752090
monopolies and cartels cannot exist long term without the state. If it weren't for the robber barons using state authority to bully competitors out of the market, there wouldn't have been any need to create anti-trust laws. Regulation begets regulation
>>69752255
Doesn't stop a local market from propagating and organically supplying its demands.
>>69750538
https://mises.org/library/privatization-roads-and-highways
>>69750538
In rural areas, Wal-mart parking lots are better maintained than the state-funded roads.
>implying companies would just twiddle their thumbs and wonder why nobody came to their store without roads.
That's the problem with most of you statist, commie fuckoffs, really. you just assume that everybody is as dumb and lazy as you are, and can only do what you're told to do, when you're told to do it.
>only governments are capable of building roads
one of the reasons people like Trump is The Wall
we need more great public works in america
>Libertarians delude themselves into thinking the gubbuhment is the crux of economic woes
>If we eliminate government interference then private interests will become altruistic and all of these issues will be sorted by the free market
>Chimpout for hard-money gold bullion but never rationalize that gold is hoarded and if given the choice between giving an IOU for gold, or giving the gold itself; the note will always be traded and the gold hoarded.
>>69752576
To be fair, Wal-mart parking lots don't have nearly the amount of asphalt as a 300 mile highway.
>>69750771
>enjoy your shit car
Globalism is the current path of our future. No amount of utopian-based idealistic rhetoric can change that simple fact.
I don't know how the middle of the US is doing, but on the East coast our infrastructure is heavily reliant on roads and cars now. The hole has been dug too deep to bother filling it under current circumstances.
I got redpilled hard on this when I started getting invovled in my local government. Our chamber can't shut the fuck up about how we can bring businesses all over the world to us.
This shit is pointless to talk about; violent revolution is the only way to change the road laid before us. If you want to sit around talking about something then talk about how you can turn the current status quo in your favor. Even people like Molyneux, who preech his ideals, are abusing this in their favor. Incase you forgot he takes donations and makes a profit off his content. It's the only sensible thing to do.
>>69750538
In British Columbia, our government allows a heavily subsidized corporation with a monopoly on car insurance (thanks to the law mandating that they be the only ones able to sell it to us) to own all the roads that our tax dollars are used to build. This way, we can't drive on ICBC owned roads unless we have ICBC car insurance. This bull shit is brought to us by the government.
>>69751931
Same here senpai good on ya
the gubmint should be responsible for military,foreign policy,and our country's infrastructure.
the free market will cover the rest
>>69750538
>roads are socialist
>>69753076
b-but libertarians were anarchists who want to privatize air and sunlight!
>>69750538
> first roads in Murica were privately owned and built.
Nice try abbo fag
>>69752855
>still needs a flat surface of a mile or two in order to reach 88mph
>>69750538
>"Libertarian road"
>Anarchist road
>>69751722
Natural monopolistic forces are extremely rare. One of the only ones that's played a major role in most industries is economies of scale, and these days technology and innovation are far better sources of market power, but absolutely no guarantee of monopoly power.
>>69752129
Yes and? No matter how much companies dislike competition, without government intervention they can't do a hell of a lot about it (other than, you know, compete).
>>69750538
>Half the fucking planet owns or has access to a car
>lel who would build a road there's no money in that.
>>69753013
to be fair donations and profit are not anti-libertarian ideals
>>69751325
Beautiful ;_;
Let's ignore roads for a second, libertarians. Let's move to another sector. Postal services.
There are hundreds of locations such as small towns or rural areas which no private postal service such as FedEx or UPS can profit from serving. Without USPS, I'd say millions of Americans wouldn't receive their mail. Is this the future you want?
>>69751494
t. Alberto Barbosa
>>69751301
>libertarians score high on being intellectual and logic
did you not read your own picture
>>69752280
tset
>>69753013
>Globalism is the current path of our future
says who? Go fuck yourself globalist kike
>>69753630
Do you even know how bankrupt the postal service is right now?
>>69750538
In a Libertarian society the community would contribute man hours and money for material to pave the road if it is beneficial. Two communities could come together to pave the road if it's beneficial such as for trade or travel. There are more solutions than the government wasting tax dollars and doing a subpar job of it.
>>69752472
>"As is his right."
Top fucking kek
>>69751325
>strawmanning
Careful, we got fire.
>>69753619
I keked
>>69753865
maybe you should use it and actually refute him
This is actually a socialist road
>>69753719
So do autists, I know you don't comprehend what it means to be human or can even fathom empathy and compassion. individuals on the autism spectrum simply lack the ability and believe logic is the end all be all.
Communism is very logical is well, the reason it doesn't work is people.
"Libertarianism" is a code-word for "Anti-White"
>>69753833
>In a Libertarian society the community would contribute man hours and money for material to pave the road if it is beneficial.
You mean, the community would set up a "council" to decide what is important to the community and possibly vote on it, then collect "money" and hire people to get the job finished.
Gee, I wonder if anyone has ever made a system like this before. . .
>libertarian road
>>69753749
Yes. But that doesn't mean you should just get rid of the service entirely. Millions of Americans would no longer be able to contribute to the economy by shopping online.
>>69753630
Someone will be able to make a profit off of these rural areas. Fedex might have to charge a bit more. Oh, well. Do you realize how shit the postal services were? I guess you aren't old enough to remember how horrible they were. Things never came on time.
>>69753833
This guy gets it. Libertarian doesn't mean "every man for himself."
Literally every last one of you that wants to pay "taxes" for a public road could do exactly that. The single important difference is that it would be voluntary.
>>69754018
Where participation is voluntary? Sadly no. There are plenty of similar systems where the alternative to contributing to the community is violence, however.
>>69752472
Strawmanning
>>69754018
This may be possible but probably unlikely. Toll roads probably. Who knows what the infrastructure would look like without force for a supply of something of which there is more or less demand.
>>69753865
How can it be misrepresenting an argument when it's not refuting anything presented.
It's a creative work, not everything is in argument-refutation form.
>>69751301
Literally just strawman after strawman. I hate that meme that Libertarians are antisocial and don't care if people suffer because they want to minimise coercion. It really belies the cynicism that underpins the worldview of the statist left.
>>69753993
You're autistic
>ad hom
Try again. Communism isn't logical at all, it goes against every basic human instinct.
Tell me again why the government should give a shit about peoples feelings? This is how we get SJW.
>>69752472
kek
>>69754218
Yes, please tell me how FedEx will profit off of towns of population 100. Do you really think every place in the United States is either a city, a suburb, or a farm?
>>69754289
>Where participation is voluntary? Sadly no. There are plenty of similar systems where the alternative to contributing to the community is violence, however.
lol, move to Haiti you self loathing Republican.
>>69754338
I was saying how you're all idiots in this thread.
Libertarians are just arrogant idiots who get all tryhard about government but if a system was set up the way you want it, it would be identical to what we have now with different names, titles and feelings.
eatshit.jpg
>>69750538
Roads are already built by corporations you fucking idiot.
>>69753749
>>69754063
Both of you need to read about the financial troubles with the postal service. Your government mandated it pay employes more but wouldn't allow a rate increase to cover the additional expense. The situation stinks of an excuse to ultimately tax subsidize the service and in turn tax subsidize every business that relies upon it.
>>69753630
That's cool and all, but if there is demand, there is a way.
>>69754018
Except that right now it's forced, if you don't feel the road would be beneficial to you because you don't own a car then why should you contribute to it's construction? They can hire people outside the community if they wish too but in a Libertarian society they would also have the choice to keep the jobs within their own community instead of outsourcing. Currently western governments would import third worlders to do these jobs do you think this is a better system?
>>69753619
>Don't tread on me or my wife's son ever again!
>>69751438
>build roads but force people to just pay a absolute fuckton of money to use it.
Yes because there is only one road in the world and roads don't compete with railways, aerial services etc.
>>69754008
Not at all. The are more issues than just borders. The libertarian party is shit. On all international issues we should be nationalists but all internal issues we should be libertarians.
>libertarian thought = anarchist thought
It's pretty sad that that's the best argument you Nazis could come up with to "refute" Libertarianism. By the way, we're going to split the vote and crash the Trump Train with no survivors. Enjoy your little fascistic fiasco while it lasts.
>>69754494
No it wouldn't. Force creates bubble in the markets and forces people to spend and waste where is no purpose or want for it. e.g. space travel, Iraq wars, NSA, IRS, fuck you faggot
>>69754534
>Except that right now it's forced, if you don't feel the road would be beneficial to you because you don't own a car then why should you contribute to it's construction?
because you get all of the food and day-to-day supplies from those roads being used.
None of you idiots live in a bubble. I wonder how many of you libertards are on government checks for "disability" or some other horseshit.
>>69750538
>libertarian bible is book about how business and roads are symbiotic
Do you also think vaccines caused your autism?
inb4 Australia
>>69754385
You value individual rights over all else. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.
>>69754394
Communism is a perfect set of rules and guidelines to abide by, share everything communally just as Plato envisioned for the Guardian class, everything from the house to the wives and children is to be communal.
>>69750538
>Doesn't understand the 10th amendment
>>69754683
>forces people to spend and waste where is no purpose or want for it. e.g. space travel
into the trash it goes.
Get off the internet and go move to the woods Ted.
>>69753312
What's stops a private corporation from creating a road and charging $200 per mile to drive on it? What's stop a wealthy billionaire from buying up all the roads in a suburb and shooting people who trespass on his private road?
>>69754038
Some state owned roads also have tolls, except some times you have to stop and pay a clerk to get through (this costs you both time AND money).
You also pay for the other roads and bridges through taxes whether you drive or not. NOT FREE.
>>69753980
>refute an argument that was already made up and obviously one-sided
>>69754341
>it's just a joke, guise
Both of you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
I want to draw your attention to the first line: "A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent"
I repeat: "while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent"
So, before you start calling me autist, why don't you go study.
>>69753014
>Our government allows a corporation to do anything ti wants.
>Stupid government.
>>69753013
What the fuck are you on about? What is wrong with him making profit?
>>69754819
As is his right.
I can do it with even less! Just these eight letters. NO lolberg has ever been able to explain this to me in relation to their pirate society. Are you ready?
>pacifism
>>69754479
I literally just said make those people pay more. Someone is going to profit or those people in that community won't buy it if its too much. But thats their fault alone. Where there is people there is a way to profit.
>>69754656
This is what I'm saying about strawman. Some of the people arguing against libertarianism make the allusion to Anarchy -which is wrong. Libertarianism is a minarchy.
>>69754857
>while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent
You never advanced anything, how can you say it's wrong.
Only a big government would spend millions on a road someone drives on once a month. The private sector would not.
>>69753076
I agree with this but people tell me this doesn't count as libertarianism. Infrastructure should be a mixed market though imho.
>>69751164
>dodge-trucks-lifted-muddi
Thats a fuckin S10 no self respecting Libertarian would own that pos
>>69754819
>What's stop a wealthy billionaire from buying up all the roads in a suburb
the people who owned it wouldn't sell it unless it was enough that they could move to another area where they could use roads. essentially suburb roads and houses would not be separated purchases
>>69754038
If all roads are privatised then it means you literally cannot travel anywhere without paying money. So if you want to drive up to the shops you have less money to spend as you have to fork out more for transportation. Also what if you are wanting to goto church or go visit a hospital. Every trip no matter how trivial will have an economic cost to it.
What worries me the most though is that roads are so,expensive only large corporations can afford them thus bankers whom lend money will end up in control of everything,as with most captalist systems you end up with monopoly without anti trust laws.
hence after a while you end up with corporations owning and running everything...haven't we seen enough dystopian future movie about this scenario?
>>69754819
Libertarians think the government should handle infrastructure
>>69754878
First: the government passed a law that made competition impossible
Second: the government started handing tax payer money to this corporation
Third: The government hands it's assets over to this corporation.
In short, your post is misleading and wrong.
>>69754965
Yeah, because people are going to pay exorbitant fees to ship to and from those small towns.
There's a demand, but it cannot be met.
>>69754819
Other people making road services for cheaper. You can't just wait for people to come onto you're property then shoot them. Its happened before and it is illegal in most states.
>>69753993
>communism
>logical
Pick one. You faggots claim capitalism isn't based in voluntary interaction, yet somehow once Marx returns from the dead to create his communist utopia full of unicorns and pixies, everyone on Earth will voluntarily decide they want to serve the greater good with no concern for their own personal desires.
>>69754494
>lol go live in a fascist dictatorship if you love small government so much
hilarious
>>69754878
Key words, "government allows" retard. No way they could actually get away with that shit otherwise.
>>69754656
>Autistic liberals would rather the situation continues to depreciate at a rapid rate instead of a gradual alleviation.
Good thing you're in the minority. The people inherently know Trump is well intentioned and virtuous for the good of the people, frivolities will not halt progress.
>>69752576
Enjoy mental incapability.
What do you drive /pol/?
Picture related, muh lesbian racecar
>>69754999
Reread that. I DIDN'T advance anything. That's why it's a strawman.
>>69755170
>hilarious
It's either that or you'd end up making some socialist commune.
US Constitution. Article I Section XIII
>The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
>To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
>To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
>To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
>To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
>To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
>TO ESTABLISH POST OFFICES AND POST ROADS
>>69755204
What do pacifists do in pirate-world, when everybody is bartering vigilante mobs with oneupsmanship in local militias/weaponry? Huh?
>>69754819
>What's stops a private corporation from creating a road and charging $200 per mile to drive on it?
What stops McDonalds from charging $300 for a cheeseburger? Market competition. The same thing applies to roads.
>>69755128
australia isn't your tax rate 70% already? your tax rate will drop to 60%. then if you drive a lot it'll go back up to effective 70%.
you're already paying for it whether you use the roads or not.
>>69755317
When was the last time ANY prices went down? Hrmm?
>>69750538
Really brah?
>>69755258
uhh, why is there a muffler on the top?
>>69750538
well memed m80
In a Libertarian society who will import the cocaine?
Checkmate libtards!
>>69754934
what? pacifism doesn't work and it never has worked.
>>69755317
Price elasticity only works in abscense of a monopoly.
Without anti trust laws the free market will always devolve into a monopoly.
>>69755374
They're not and government IS the one paying with tax monies. Only a state can get good delicious bulk pricings
>>69755305
Please don't post that fucking disgusting face.
>>69755310
>libertarianism = no government
You're argument (?) is invalid.
>>69755128
But we also don't have to pay as much in taxes either.
>>69755412
How does that matter to my question? Ok. The meme photo of star trek socialism versus giant worm monster lolbergs is true then :D
>>69755457
>Without anti trust laws the free market will always devolve into a monopoly.
wew lad. Quite a claim without sources.
>>69752972
Shut up smartcar cuck
>>69750778
they don't have cars in australia
>>69751494
AYO HOL UP
>>69755486
Then what are you? Industrial hair splitters?
>>69755457
Hahaha
>>69755536
He's right. They used to have to prove net benefit in order to incorporate. Now they said fuck it and lobbied more
>alt-right shitters call libertarians cucks
>alt-right shitters are the ones begging for authoritarian politicians to control their lives
>>69755464
That's what I say whenever I see your mom upload a picture of you on Facebook
>>69755305
Establish, not maintain. What's to stop the government selling roads to corporations?
>>69754596
If we were strictly nationalist when dealing with other countries we would end up like the old world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hYBuK9q-NI
>>69755367
Prices fluctuate on an hourly, daily, quarterly, and yearly basis. This is a simple fact of life evident in industries ranging from oil to dairy.
I don't know what you're getting at.
>>69755170
>You faggots claim capitalism isn't based in voluntary interaction
Irrelevant
>everyone on Earth will voluntarily decide they want to serve the greater good [Marx] with no concern for their own personal desires.
Humans don't follow pure logic, we have emotion which is why the supposed perfected utopian systems can never work.
>>69755288
If nothing was argued then an argument didn't take place, if an argument never happened then anything using an argument as a prerequisite is not relevant.
Daily reminder that Somalia is the only Libertarian country in the world. And it's a shithole.
MUH FREE MARKET
MUH SELF-INTEREST
MUH GREED
FUCK MORALITY!! ITS ALL ABOUT ME ME ME
FUCK THE COLLECTIVE!!!!!!! ITS ALL ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL
ME ME ME
>>69755632
I like paying twice. The age old call of the idiot gabbiduwwizt
>>69755305
/thread
/libertarianism
>>69755606
He's not right, and has no evidence to support his claim
>>69755662
forgot pic
>>69755648
Muh invizzibuwl hayhnd
>Wants to drive on the paved Jew
>>69755702
I just gave you one
>>69755296
As long as membership in the commune is voluntary, there's technically nothing wrong with it from a libertarian perspective. They may be "socialist" within their own group, but any economic activity with the rest of society would be capitalist in nature.
>>69755561
I'm a pyro with a strawman burning passion.
>>69750538
This kills Statists
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/09/hawaii.volunteers.repair/index.html?iref=topnews
>>69755662
Daily reminder Somalia went to shit thanks to communism
>>69755746
>cronyism is evidence that free markets will always devolve to monopolies
WEW
LAD
>>69755769
Nah. Enjoy your vagina style ideology. Always trying to fit your dick in but she keeps moving
>>69755611
The average person is stupid and when left to themselves make horrible choices
While I don't think the state is the best solution (shaming of bad behavior and a strong church worked quite well) I'd rather have a stronger state for a while if it could purge the cancer liberalism has caused
>>69755746
No, you didn't. What you posted was not evidence
>>69754739
Okay right because without without coercive wealth redistribution no one will give a fuck about anyone else and grandma will be left to die of exposure in the woods because she has no labour value. You keep calling people autists, and your worldview seems to assume that humans are antisocial psychopaths. Maybe your projecting or something. If you want to share everything and live in a polyamorous hippie commune, literally no one would give a fuck stop you from doing so. If you get bored of that and decide to pool resources and buy some production to run as a workers coop, go right ahead mate. You're just an autistic weirdo and want ot force the world to adhere to your delusional universalist-egalitarian faggotry. Suck a dick, nigger. You are cancer.
>>69755845
Sky is brown
>>69755652
You must have missed the post that I called out for strawman. It's ok, though. You're American, so you're probably stupid.
>>69751325
>>69755783
Left wing political factions are close enough it's a moot point.
>>69755848
Does somebody need a diapy change?
>>69755652
>Humans don't follow pure logic, we have emotion which is why the supposed perfected utopian systems can never work
Precisely, but unlike communism, capitalism is at least based on human nature.
>>69755723
Is there a white version?
I bet that would work.
>>69755746
Nein du hast nicht.
You just said
>They used to have to prove net benefit in order to incorporate. Now they said fuck it and lobbied more
And further, without proof, but ok, you're right. 100% correct.
>>69751310
underrated
>>69755464
Please get off our website.
>>69755869
Same color as your wife's son
>>69751722
If they raise prices through the roof, then other firms will venture into the market to capitalize on the raise in prices of the goods.
You are new at this aren't you?
>>69755162
Then they have no right to complain about it. You don't want to pay market value for a service then thats entirely on you.
>people in the middle of no where demand internet
>They aren't willing to pay for internet in the middle of no where.
vs
>People in the middle of no where demand internet
>They've already been paying for it in taxes the past two years.
>government raises taxes on everyone to pay for hicks internet.
Its the hicks fault for living in some random shit hole. Don't punish everyone else for it. They hicks can move to another area, pay extra for the service or better yet, not pay for the service. Its better than making others pay for you.
>>69751637
>pictured: north korea's road to serfdom
yeah, post the example of an infrustructure built around absolutely no resources.
>>69751637
Correlated.
Roads improve commerce and commerce improves roads. That is a dumb quote.
>>69750538
Oi but where's the shitpost mate?
>>69754656
I consider myself a libertarian and I love Trump, so you're basically just a faggot.
>>69755819
Implying capitalism and cronyism aren't the same thing.
As corporations get powerful they will influence politics
It's not that hard to understand. Marx actually predicted that capitalism would turn into cronyism. It's inevitable.
>>69755844
having a stronger state is the cancer
liberty is the answer
>>69750538
Most roads aren't federally funded, most lolberts just want to end the irs and keep county and state taxes for roads and schools like they already are
>>69756116
Marx also believed the labor theory of value. Marx is a fucking retard
>>69751722
the only way to price-fix like this is with government intervention. you literally must have government force impeding the entrance of new competition into the market
>>69755170
What is the greater good anyway? I've never understood. What greater good would the people even be working for? Science development? Thats ok I guess but it doesn't really matter in the long run.
Its as though they think humans aren't just glorified animals.
>>69755869
Prove it. Does the sky reflect light with a high wavelength and a low frequency? Does it have low saturation or luminance?
It doesn't? So, then you're wrong.
>>69755536
Go read wikipedia regarding anti trust and monopolies.
The classic case was 'Standard Oil' which pretty much controlled the entire oil industry and market back at the turn of last centry.
Read up on the law case:
>Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey v. United States
>By the 1880s, Standard Oil was using its large market share of refining capacity to begin integrating backward into oil exploration and crude oil distribution and forward into retail distribution of its refined products to stores and, eventually, service stations throughout the United States. Standard Oil allegedly used its size and clout to undercut competitors in a number of ways that were considered "anti-competitive," including underpricing and threats to suppliers and distributors who did business with Standard's competitors.
As you probably have the attention span of a Gnat and need something more modern then go have a read of how Microsoft operated in the 90's and early 2000's.
>>69755781
How do you get altruism when Libertardianism promotes materialism, hedonism, and mammonism
>>69755848
How is giving money to the poor of your own volition and ability a bad thing.
>your worldview seems to assume that humans are antisocial psychopaths
National Socialism taps into the European pathological altruism. Cooperation and production for the advancement of culture and society.
>>69755905
What argument was it refuting
>>69755937
That's right, this is why it can last for so long. Not to mention it's supported by Europeans who can make nearly any ideology work, but National Socialism is superior to anything else imagined while Capitalistic Democracy is just exploited by Jews.
>>69756166
You really showed me buddy
>>69755826
Enjoy your strawman argument. Miscontstrue the Libertarian ideology by saying it is lawless.
>>69750538
>>69754656
I'm a libertarian. Trump is the most libertarian candidate that has a chance of winning.
MAGA
>>69755457
First, you fail to understand what a monopoly is. Infrastructure monopolies cannot be formed on a large scale, as multiple roads and railways can always be built to connect cities. On a local scale, government-regulated private monopolies are the lesser evil. A private monopoly can always be broken by new technologies, but a government monopoly remains forever. Plus, private monopolies are easily held liable for damages caused by shoddy road conditions.
>>69755128
Daily reminder that australians are sandniggers
fuck off dune coon
>>69755201
Un-American cunt.
>>69756097
Liar.
>>69756364
Liar.
>>69753194
Not an argument.
>>69755662
Daily reminder that Somalia is a shithole filled with niggers, muslims and muslim niggers, all with sub-ape IQs.
>>69755871
What argument was it refuting. Is every conveyance of thought implicitly an argument?
>>69755662
>Libertarianism =\= Anarchism
>Average poster who brings up Somalia knows next to nothing about that country's history
Nice strawman though
>>69756282
It refuted nothing but rather established that libertarianism and communism are similar.
>>69755662
>libertarianism = anarchism
>mfw people still propagate this meme
>>69754787
Name one way space travel isn't a waste.
You will never colonize mars or find alien lifeforms.
>>69756525
>>69756554
Anarchism is libertarian though. People tend to forget that.
>>69755727
It's actually called reality and not being illiterate.
>>69751947
> I have no idea how capitalism works.
Even the main pushers of a free market put in the condition that it only works of the populace is 100% informed about all companies, by removing government regulation, at least in the eu, we would have monoplies everywhere.
>>69755128
>you literally cannot travel anywhere without paying money
you all ready can't travel anywhere without paying money
>>69756364
>Trump is the most libertarian candidate
because nothing is more libertarian than putting muslims in a registry, erecting a wall across the entire US-Mexico border, and saying "fuck you" to free trade and throwing tariffs around
Its not about "there aint gonna be no more roads"
It's about the government selling off all their roads to private ownership, who would then turn them into toll roads with exorbitant fees.
>>69752472
>implying the man who owns the road wouldn't have a private contract forcing him to keep the road open
>>69756274
Ehh, I guess your claim is logically true. But, even with anti-trust laws, the free market will devolve into a monopoly.
I can say this because there are companies that are extremely large (google, facebook) and have unchallenged monopolies because of their limited competition.
>>69752462
Except no, it doesn't. Please tell me how small business and innovation would be protected magically without the state. If the state didn't exist, then robber barons would simply buy out all competition, or use more aggressive measures that would be legal in the absence of a state. Capitalism incentivises profit through any means. Capitalism would cause a degenerate anarchy.
>>69752462
Please tell me how Joe blogs down the road is gunna compete with mega Corp when selling grain or services
>>69756465
America doesn't need to follow ideologies that promote mammonism and materialism. Your jewish-implanted belief of National Socialism (which isn't fascism) is based upon the most cursory of readily-available knowledge presented by the media and educational system (Jewish owned).
>>69756550
Was a misquote, theres like five libertards
>>69755647
I truly wish we would.
>>69756282
>How is giving money to the poor ... a bad thing?
When the fuck did I say this was a bad thing? That is literally the opposite of what I am said.
>... of your own volition and ability ...
Oh, NatSoc is of your own volition is it? What happens if you decide you don't feel like paying your taxes then?
>>69756670
>what is national libertarian
>>69756282
>How do you get altruism when Libertardianism promotes materialism, hedonism, and mammonism
That's where economics comes in, that and business owners being reluctant to hire people with tattoos and piercings on their face.
>>69750538
Lol no it doesn't.
>>69756670
It absolutely boggles my mind that people *still* fall for protectionist propaganda even 'til this day despite all empirical and intuitive information making it so blatantly clear how harmful it is for most people.
>>69751494
t. Alberto Barbosa
>>69756116
>implying the problem is capitalism, and not the state
Marxists are the ultimate in useful idiots. They think communism and anarchism are achievable together, rather than the antithesis of one another. Marx outright admits that the transition from socialism to communism requires a fundamental change in human nature so that we stop being "greedy" individuals and give ourselves over completely to the collective will of society. Positively retarded, thus the only way for a communist-like society to exist is with the presence of a state to force cooperation. The problem is still statism. The problem is ALWAYS statism.
>>69756254
Basically the meaning of the greater good eventually devolves to providing the bare necessities for survival because individual will drives competition which drives innovation.
>>69756282
Oh right, and incidentally NatShits are No. 2 on the list of most useful idiots. It's basically the same sort of collectivist, statist retardation as communism, except with an us-vs-them component to rile up the hillbillies and Fritzes.
>>69756274
Its amazing how the price of oil fell drastically during this time.
>>69755702
>>69755819
The experiences in the real world do not support your idealist dribble.
http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/10-companies-you-didnt-know-had-near-monopolies.html/?a=viewall
Sit down and research the following companies where they managed to monopolize their market and which Government Anti trust laws had to forcefully regulate.
>Steel in the 1880 ~ 1912 era.
>Railroads at the same time
>AT&T.
>Microsoft windows.
>Alcoa
>Pan American World Airways
>American Tobacco Company
Also the Media is only owned by 3-4 big entities because the FCC prevents them from taking over each other.
>>69756819
>what is biggistic smallism?
>>69756618
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/anarchy?s=t
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/libertarianism?s=t
Libertarianism can entail Anarchy, but it is usually minarchy - limited government.
This is a classic case of a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square.
>>69756819
>what is an oxymoron
I mean i can understand not wanting to import a shit ton of Ahmeds and Jamal and still being libertarian, but muslim registries and protectionism aren't libertarian in the slightest
>>69755039
>S10
>Says GMC on grill
>>69756948
Wonderful analogy
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nationalism?&o=100074&s=t
What national libertarianism is the idea that its citizens should have their rights.
>>69756966
Of course. Though I don't think there's anything the government does that can't be organized without robbing people.
>>69757003
That's just as brilliant as the Bobby Hill one
>>69756920
That was because the first stage of a obtaining a monopoly is to use your market size to kill off competitors. Then once you have bought or killed off your competitors you then jack up the price.
Its exactly what the Saudis are doing right now as they try to kill off the American Shale industry.
>>69757004
It isn't an oxymoron. It's a specific set libertarianism that seeks to grant only citizens rights.
>>69755723
The same country that is the way it is because of leftist policies top kek my friend
>>69755662
Flag checks out
>>69756282
>How do you get altruism when Libertardianism promotes materialism, hedonism, and mammonism
It doesn't promote jack shit, that is the point. You're also a retard if you're trying to tell me that the state promotes altruism.
>>69756618
American libertarianism doesn't call for the complete eradication of the state, also
>anarchism
This depends wildly upon your definition of anarchism
>>69757082
Citizens of what? A government?
>>69756850
So you think its okay for American workers to compete in the labour market with chink slave labourers?
>>69757211
It doesn't necessarily.
"Anarchism" being a state of affairs without a state (government).
>>69750538
Its a liberal car though.
>>69756554
>real libertarianism hasn't been tried yet!
kek, reminds me of something else.
>>69757003
Is this tread? ehhhrrr
>>69751931
Jeeps are such pleb-tier suvs. "Look, i can take the doors off!!" Fucking retarded, ugly, weak pieces of shit.
>>69756942
>7 industries as examples
>always need anti-trust laws
Who cares that every last one of them but Microsoft were massively subsidized by the government though, right guys?
>>69757139
>rights
>grant
not libertarian, don't understand shit about libertarianism.
>>69757260
Yes. I said libertarianism, not Anarchy, so there will be a small government.
>>69757260
Libertarianism includes but is not limited to anarchist ideologies. Please stop propagating this meme.
>>69753194
no because it flies
>>69757270
Hell yes it is, since we're way more productive, and higher skilled, and have *WAY* more capital. We do jobs we're competitive in - we do the things we have comparative advantage in, and so do they.
>>69756580
you are silly
>>69757369
That's not what he said.
>>69755723
Look at what the government and no one else built.
>>69753013
>Incase you forgot he takes donations and makes a profit off his content
as is his right
>>69756809
>>Okay right because without without coercive wealth redistribution
The only "coercive wealth redistribution" in National Socialism is charity and social welfare.
>>69756821
>Libertarian economics re-establish altruistic sentiment because I want it to
https://recoveringaustrians.wordpress.com/deconstructing-austrian-economics/
>>69756912
How is NatSoc collectivist. Which group gets priority? Which ideology isn't a dichotomy? And why do dichotomies posses an inherent error?
The Third Reich was immensely successful and fell due to all other neighboring governments being controlled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYEUHk16yk4
>>69757205
https://youtu.be/KCwG13K7TAo
https://youtu.be/iZG9NXmuCaE
See for yourself, tell me again how this is all just "Nazi trickery" and it's all lies for a megalomaniac cause, I will surely see the truth in such arguments.
>>69757369
Somalia isn't anything resembling libertarianism.
>>69756920
>>69757132
actually the correct term is Predatory Pricing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing
>this is why there has to be regulation and laws
>>69757498
>stalinism=communism
>people still propagate this meme.
>>69756670
Not having a secure border and letting in invaders is called anarchism. Free trade is anti libertarianism. You can not have a free market if your job can be outsourced to those that have never seen as much as 20 dollars at a time. Its not possible to compete with slaves for labor.
>>69751301
bait
>>69755317
Hey lets build a road
Okay well we need equipment to do that with
Well only the road company owns that equipment
Shieeet
>>69756850
>harmfull for most people
The only people it harms is people outside of the country. My country men are more important to me than some chinks in the same way my family is more important than a stranger.
>>69756698
It IS his right to not do so.
Socially liberal kike-lovers be here this thread.
>>69757696
No, it's harmful to people in the country because everyone is paying more for goods, where they'd have gotten cheaper goods with free trade on anything actually affected by a tariff.
>>69757422
>not libertarian, don't understand shit about libertarianism.
Etymology of libertarianism (root word liber) is a latin word meaning freedom. It is the ideology of (taken from wiki) of maximum autonomy, and freedom of choice,emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgment.
Now you know.
>>69757422
Its is libertarianism. Having open borders and free trade deals is an anarchist belief.
>>69757401
U mad
A Jeep wrangler (typical vehilce when referrign to jeep) is a wonderful rally car. It has such an incredibly short wheelbase that turning in it is phenomenal. This is why some prefer to 4x4 in a jeep as opposed to a pickup.
How statist argue:
>Make absolutely no effort whatsoever to do research on economic theories or how things might be done privately, 100% of their "knowledge" comes from high school or progressive facebook memes.
>Demand that libertarians must teach them everything, be a world authority on every single "how would X work?" question that could possibly be imagined, and have an answer that is completely flawless (regardless of how absolutely terrible whatever the statist alternative is in reality, because that doesn't matter apparently)
>If a libertarian struggles to answer perfectly any question at any time, regardless of how obscure, stupid, or otherwise difficult it is, immediately declare that free markets are impossible and you won the argument definitively.
These people are not stupid or simply have gaps in their knowledge, they're dishonest pieces of shit that (in 99% of cases) have some vested interest in statism.
>>69757494
It is not about having a competitive advantage - their wages are kept low because of coercive state institutions, and their culture finds low quality of life acceptable.
Chinese serfs outcompeting American free citizens has nothing to do with comparative advantage.
>>69757586
You're damn right that's what I said!
>>69757422
Those 7 examples cover industries that are critical to everyday society.
>Media
>Utilities
>Resources/Minerals
Tell me how the fuck your going to function when one entity or person owns every bit of information that you recieve about the outside world.
Its already disgusting that people like Rupert Murdoch have such power that politician kneel in front of him because he controls the opinion of the mass populace.
If it weren't for the current laws he would already own all news outlets.
>>69756741
>They'd just buy them
THEN DON'T SELL YOU SPINELESS FAGGOT.
>implying corporations wouldnt build roads with advertisement up the ass
>>69756399
Nigga uvknow how expensive infrastructure is, not just anyone can bitt blast a cheeky rail track into existence.
>>69755723
http://fee.org/articles/somalia-failed-state-economic-success/
>>69757620
>7x10^9 people in the world
>only 1 person owns road building equipment
>>69757534
>The only "coercive wealth redistribution" in National Socialism is charity and social welfare.
Charity is by definition not coerced. If someone mugs me and gives my money to the Red Cross, I have not committed an act of charity.
Answer my question: In your NatSoc society, what happens if you decide not to pay your taxes?
>>69757270
>So you think its okay for American workers to compete in the labour market with chink slave labourers?
This.
We need to ban the sun as well, think of how many American lightbulb companies and candle makers have to suffer because of the ruinous competition of that big yellow orb that's stealing all of that labor FOR FREE.
If we ever want to be prosperous again in the lighting industry and all attendant fields, we need to put up a protectionist wall of some kind in space to blot it out.
>>69757925
It has *everything* to do with comparative advantage. Our time is better spent doing the things *WE'RE* better at, while their time is better spent doing the things they're better at (but still worse than us).
https://youtu.be/c9STBcacDIM?t=12m17s
>>69757761
OY Vey Goyim don't you know Jews would hate a society comprised of no government and everyone united in the pursuit of money and self-interest. Not to mention the currency made of literal gold, they would detest such a thing as they're all allergic to precious metals.
>>69758031
Correct, and you need to goto a bank to be able to get a loan for such a large scale infrastructure project.
Do you think a bank is going to give you money to build a road that competes with another road that is funded by the same bank...
>>69757494
They have the much bigger advantage because they'll work for such low wages and american would never compete. We are talking about people who could feed their entire family for a month with 5 dollars. It mine as well be competing with slaves.
You would lower America's living standards by making us compete with street shiters. Free trade destroys libertarian markets. When the job isn't very difficult (making pants) there won't be much of a difference in quality.
>>69751325
Holly fuck
That's great
>>69758180
>they'll work for lower wages
You can do that too if you *REALLY* want to compete for the low-skill nigh slave-labor jobs they perform. Oh wait. You can't. Because minimum wage exists.
>>69756502
It's making a point - therefore an argument.
>>69752472
>As is his right
oh i am laffin
>>69756850
The only harm nationalism does is to global corporations because now they have to hire workers from that nation. Boohoo.
>>69757494
You need to go back.
>>69758357
>>69758377
It's to fucking everyone as an economic reality. It's *simply the case* that free trade helps everyone.
>>69757768
The difference between anarchists and national libertarians is a disagreement on where this 'maximum' can exist in certain circumstances.
>>69757904
Well statist stockholm syndrome ideology has been hammered into the human race for thousands of years so its sort of understandable.
>>69758133
This is retarded logic. if I had a cotton farm with slaves and someone else had a cotton farm without slaves and everybody would buy my cotton. Then all the profit would go to me and feeding my slaves. That money that would have been used to pay for workers and other things is now in my hands and i'm not going to give it back to the general market. Even though my cotton is cheaper its still worse.
it would be easier to just start giving our taxes to china.
>>69758116
Paying taxes is necessary to provide for the society. Autistic individuals that resent nationalism and anything that's not in their self-interest cannot comprehend this.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-fair-society/201108/what-s-the-matter-libertarianism
>>69758276
Because something is to be presented as important, does not mean it is involved in an argument. You also don't care to even engage in argument with the point directly but rather semantics in an effort to pidgeonhole it as a fallacy, which also would not render the point untrue.
The point it makes is abstract, dwelling on individual exaggerations is ineffectual.
>>69758245
Why would I want to compete for jobs? Do you see me advocating for people doing programming? No. There are people here that CAN do it, but can't because of the supply of workers.
>>69758031
What stops a group of vexed commuters from pooling their resources and building their own railroad?
>>69757534
>How is NatSoc collectivist. Which group gets priority?
Sorry, given you're a NatCuck, you must be the product of too many generations of girls impregnated by their brothers or fathers to get my point.
Nationalism is collectivist by definition, the difference with communism being that it delineates one group as the in-group to be praised and another as the out-group to be shunned, rather than communism's all-encompassing collective.
>>69757768
You apparently missed the part where I pointed out that you cannot grant rights.
Also, free association means you don't have to interact with those mean, scary foreigners, sure. But it also means you can't say shit to stop someone else from doing it either.
>>69757936
You're absolutely right that they were judged critical to everyday society and were, say it with me now:
SUBISIDZED
BY
GOVERNMENT
In other words, the money they used to build monopolies that our benevolent government stepped in to save us from? Was given to them by the government.
>>69758357
It's welfare, just under a slightly different name.
>>69758155
Jews love communism. Are you retarded. How else would they be the elite of society if they couldn't use government regulation to stop goyim from becoming powerful.
>>69758463
I agree. I believe a good limit to maximum autonomy is if an action will make someone a victim (lose autonomy), such as a murder, rape or theft.
>>69758576
>and everyone would buy my cotton
Except we're not talking about the *SAME GOODS* dickface. Do you understand what comparative advantage even is?
>>69758463
Most real world Libertarians want basic infrastructure, police, fire departments, public education, etc.
They just don't want to every little thing they do regulated and a third of their money taken away and wasted on crap they don't want.
>>69758587
>psychology today
noreaction.jpg
>>69758587
>Paying taxes is necessary to provide for the society
This is a claim, not an argument, dipshit. You have provided literally no backing for this statement other than to ad hominem your opposition as mentally ill.
>>69758671
The new Metro train line that will link Sydney up to the northwest suburbs will cost $11 billion dollars.
http://www.afr.com/real-estate/sydney-metro-battle-over-route-for-11b-project-20150615-ghob3s
Chumpchange really
>>69758735
This applies for Fascism too.
>>69758588
>why would I want to compete for jobs
You wouldn't. But *everyone else* benefits from a system in which you have to do so you loser fuck.
>>69758587
Read my posts, I've been defining libertarian objectively, using sources. I made the claim that libertarian can include anarchy. The strawmans are exclusively claiming Libertarianism absolutely equals Anarchy.
>>69758120
Right, because the job market is an infinite field.
>>69758696
>It's welfare, just under a slightly different name.
nationalism is welfare?
>>69758901
>*everyone else*
>Everyone else means global corporations who like cheap labor and don't care if illegals take from the community without giving back.
>>69758120
10/10 analogy. Obviously the sun is as dangerous as slave labourers [sic.].
>>69758874
Because private companies never deal with those sorts of sums, right?
>>69758696
Do you understand your own reasoning?
Your saying that Monopolists are being helped by a bad Government which is not enforcing its own laws against monopolies.
So then by removing laws and government altogether means people like Rupert can finally consolidate the few outlets he doesn't own and have complete control.
>>69759132
Everyone else meaning *everyone else*. All consumers benefit from cheaper goods. The goal of trade is to take in more than you put out, because that means you're getting the most stuff and services for the least cost to yourself.
>>69758696
>You apparently missed the part where I pointed out that you cannot grant rights.
A small government can disgrant rights to those who are not citizens.
>>69757590
>Free trade is anti libertarianism
I don't even know what to say.
>>69754534
How long will it take before it becomes forced in the new system?
See, this is what I don't get about you people: we tried your method. It sucked. So we either dropped it or converted it to our current system.
We also tried the Marxist system. It sucked too. So we either dropped it or converted it to our current system.
We tried our current method. It worked. Not perfectly, no, but it did. Which is more than can be said for the other two.
Look at a map of the world right now. How many countries are there out there that are libertarian? How about communist? And I mean true communist, none of this China crap. And how many of each are successful, and not some small little disease-ridden African nation in the middle of absolute buttfucking nowhere?
Now, how many mixed market economies are there? And how many of those are wildly successful? (hint: most. Most of them are.)
Yeah, I wonder which school of thought is the most successful for a society? We just can't be sure... Well, better try libertarianism again! Sure, it's either failed or been converted to a mixed market every single time so far, but maybe this time it'll work!
>>69758245
Its too late for that though. I agree with getting rid of minimum wage but we would still be competing with shit skins and we would have to bring ourselves to their level to do it.
Our currency would either deflate or will lose value internationally. I would hope its just the latter.
You just can't compete with shit skins without lowering yourself to their level.
>>69759225
Private companies have to go cap in hand to a bank for those kind of sums.
The original poster asked why can't commuters chip in to cover the lot.
>there are only 3 million aussies in Sydney, so how much money does each sydneysider have to chip in to reach the 11 billion budget?
>>69759262
Wrong. Consumers benefit from cheaper goods IF they have money. Being shit of luck for a job means GG no money and no money means you can't benefit from cheaper goods.
>The goal of trade is to take in more than you put out
Depending on who you're talking to. I say the goal of trade is acquire goods that you want/need.
>>69758696
The individuals shunned in National Socialism are done so by natural law and the government's strivence in bringing in about as it should be.
Untermensch are shunned; those who are detrimental, as perceived so by society.
>>69758751
You seem to believe that if one opposes Libertardianism they must then promote Communism.
>>69758855
Invoking the genetic fallacy is not an argument
>>69758860
A claim can also be an argument.
The support for such innate knowledge is that social welfare is required to safeguard the less-fortunate against harm as that promotes a healthy population which is conducive to progress.
>>69758926
I'm not about to read through all your hasty ramblings in shotgun argumentation
>>69758587
Libertarians don't necessarily believe we shouldn't pay any taxes. We just believe we should pay much much less.
>>69759494
It appears most libertarians in this thread believe in the extreme rather. >>69758696
>>69759379
You're really not getting it. If someone else is less competitive in something than you, but you're way more competitive in something else, it's better that you use your time on the thing you're way better at.
If I'm 10x better as a lawyer than my secretary, and 2x a better typist, I may still be better as a typist than my secretary. *It doesn't follow that I should use my time as a typist rather than as a lawyer*. It's the same thing with the Chinese - we may be much more productive in making pants and shirts than they are. It doesn't follow that doing so *is worth our time*.
The only way globalism would work is if the entire world used the same currency. Even then it still wouldn't really work out.
>>69759382
>chipping in money
wew lad
I bet you forgot the time when we had resources and not just money, when we lent our labor for food and not money.
