Explain to me again how capitalism is not inherently unethical.
Hard mode: no utilitarian arguments, only deontological ones.
>>69721250
>you can hord a fiat currency
also
>secular morality
>>69721250
Except most rich people don't have a ton of cash stored in a safe.
>>69721250
>using utilitarianism and deontology
Fuck off, only virtue ethics is allowed here. Read Ayn Rand.
>>69721250
consider this:
your mom is a whore
>>69721250
>hoard so much cash they impoverish others
Cash isn't this public good that everybody deserves a portion of...
Cash earned is relative to the value you add to society. That's kind of how capitalism even works.
>>69721250
/pol/ differentiates between speculative finance capitalism aka "jewish capital" and productive industrial capitalism which they consider to be "aryan". I shit you not.
I don't know anyone who stores newspapers or people who call them crazy.
Also you impoverish yourself if you're hoarding 40 cats.
Generally rich successful people have made a positive impact on the human race while the person who made this picture is just spouting socialist class dividing garbage.
>>69721250
Rich people don't have money hoarded in a safe. They have it invested in businesses, real estate, etc.
>>69721250
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution, and trade are privately owned and operated. One owning private property and doing what one wants with said property is not unethical; rather, it is unethical to violate the natural-born rights of others by preventing them from exercising their right to own and do what they wish with their property.
>>69721250
Except rich people don't hoard stacks of money in their trailer causing a huge fire hazard or making the whole area smell like cat piss
>>69721250
Thats just what filthy communist would say. People got that money cause they worked for a living instead of asking for a fucking handout.
>>69721558
This is literally the most non-utilitarian argument in the thread.
The rest of you: deontological arguments or GTFO.
>>69721250
>Explain to me again how capitalism is not inherently unethical
Hard work, innovation, time, and ideas are rewarded with money. Explain to me why every single socialist/communist paradise has had people fleeing for their lives while capitalistic countries have people wanting to immigrate by the boatload?
>>69722312
>listening to little bitches like Kant or Mill
Aristotle's virtue ethics or GTFO
>>69721250
So explain to me how someone hoarding their own money is impoverishing anyone.
>>69721250
>when people pathologically hoard so much cash that they impoverish others
So never? Rich people don't just take their money and bury it you stupid asshole, they invest it. Investment is essentially giving your money to other people so that they can start businesses. Even putting your money in a bank is tantamount to this--that's the money that banks lend to people so that they can buy homes, cars, and start businesses.
And if they DID just take their money and bury it, they'd have effectively taken it out of circulation and thus increased the value of the remaining wealth by that much. It is not POSSIBLE to hoard so much cash that you impoverish others.
Leftists literally understand nothing about finance.
>>69722312
How does the invocation of Natural Law in an argument make that argument a utilitarian one? I am making a deontological argument, as I am saying to prevent the economic system of capitalism from being created by and participated in by individuals is to infringe upon their natural-born rights. I am making a deontological argument. Not that I expect OP to reply to me...
>>69721556
>ayn rand
No
>hoard so much cash they impoverish others
>I have literally never even read a single book on economy
How pathetic are these chumps? One of the main reasons why they're so poor is because they think money is just an object, like a stack of newspapers.
>>69722312
I prefer factual fucking arguments. The premise presented is objectively incorrect.
>>69721250
You know what the difference between the rich person and the other two in the picture? He is successful.
Its not capitalism's fault that people are greedy or immoral. People need to be brought up with better ethics.
>>69721250
>Liberals ACTUALLY think "hording" money is a thing
>>69721250
>Money is a finite resource
>If you have too much money others don't
>Most religious are not against greed
And this is why commies are retarded.
>>69722003
>natural-born rights
if owning something is a natural right then so is killing
>>69722850
Nigger rappers do hoard cash under their bed though.
>>69722850
>Rich people don't just take their money and bury it you stupid asshole, they invest it
Corporate America is currently sitting on the largest cash reserves in history and isn't investing it back into the economy. Trillions of dollars are literally just sitting there decreasing in value due to inflation.
>>69723352
>>69723374
Hoarding money is fine but there should be better incentives for that money to be invested back into the economy into new ventures.
>>69722850
what about buying luxury things that serve no purpose?
what use are 50 ferrari tier cars in some guy's garage if they just sit there?
>>69723788
>if owning something is a natural right then so is killing
I did not say that owning something is a natural right. I said that the ability to own property is a natural-born right.
As far as killing is concerned, that act is not inherently a violation of Natural Law, as you are fully within your rights to defend yourself with proportional force. If you point a gun at me and say that you are going to shoot me dead so I take out my gun and shoot you dead I have just killed you. This act would not be a violation of Natural Law. Please don't talk about things you know nothing about Macedonia.
>>69721250
what is free market, the post
>>69724024
You mean like the fact that money must be invested to be created otherwise it will eventually be spent?
>>69721250
GIMEDATS
>>69724089
What use is there to have a bauble on your desk, or even owning a desk.
By your logic a person should not own anything that is not food, water or shelter.
>>69721250
deontological arguments are baseless. your entire world view is a castle of sand
>>69721250
>hoard so much they impoverish others
How can you even argue with this shit? Its so blatantly wrong and they don't fucking care.
I need a drink
>>69721250
>hoarding money makes other people poor.
That's not how it works tho. If you were talking about something with a relatively fixed value- kilos of gold for example- you might be onto something but fiat currency is by it's very nature a flexible form of value. A dollar is far more elastic in value than a bar of gold.
>>69721250
>someone having more money than me is bad
>>69724024
>Corporate America is currently sitting on the largest cash reserves in history and isn't investing it back...
These companies see through the machinations of the Federal Reserve, and know that the market is approaching a downward spiral. They don't want to invest a ton of capital when the market isn't doing well. You sit on it and wait.
>>69724089
Buying things that are expensive and useless provide employment for the legions of people that make those things, the material used to make those things, the packaging for those things, the material for that, and the people that sell them
IE capitalism
>>69721250
I was born filthy rich senpai not my fault. I help the poor, I give my money to charity. The best part about that is it gets deduced from your taxes. My dad's group operates several charities.
>>69721250
Capitalism is as ethical as gravity is.
Might as well explore the justice of orbital mechanics.
>>69724116
>capital 'natural law'
what cult are you in?
>>69724116
>the ability to own property is a natural-born right
that is too vague, property can be collectively owned by a group
collective ownership is as natural as private ownership, if not more
All rich people did not deserve to have all that money, some of them did, but a lot of them didnt. As much as you try to justify it, OP is right, you cant run away from cathegories like justice.
>>69724544
>>69724732
but if we objectively bought things for their use, the expensive 50th car in the garage, wouldnt be bought, leaving those people without work. How do you know you are optimizing the workforce as a resource, if you have a bunch of people in the country, working to produce objectively useless, but expensive, things.
>>69724116
> Natural right
nigger plz, I bet you're an atheist too.
>>69721250
they're not hoarding money you fucking retard, they're in investments and such magical things poor people dont understand which is why they're still poor
>>69725227
Fuck you who are you to decide what's fair and what's isnt you little mountainniger cuck. Unless someone stole the money or killed someone to get it then its all fair.
>>69721250
Where do you live where cats and newspapers are accepted as currency?
>you wouldn't eat a light bulb
>you wouldn't eat the planet neptune in it's entirety
>so why would you eat a salad?
See how stupid that sounds?
>>69725227
Objectively useless by what metric?
The production of said 50 cars would lead to workers being paid so they can feed themselves and buy other things which feed others.
It's how a market works.
>>69725034
>I give my money to charity
socialist libtard. go back to tumblr.
>>69721250
>>69721711
Lolwut
>>69721250
>people who are smart and work hard are rewarded more than a dumb lazy jackass
>unethical
1/10
>>69725227
What are you arguing, that despite having wealth people can't/shouldn't enjoy it because other people aren't as wealthy?
Anti-capitalism, communism, and leftist ideology is all inherently rooted in the poor trying to drag down the rich because they themselves are too lazy or incapable of making money for themselves, and instead feel that stealing it through "laws" is a proper alternative
Fuck the poor
>>69721250
Money isn't like a pie where there is a limited supply of it.
Just because you have a large slice of pie doesn't mean someone else is getting screwed out of it. Though it is definitely possible that your large slice of pie was made by taking small amounts of pie from different people.
Wealth can be created by baking new pies.
>>69721250
Think about that "hoarding money" thing for a moment.
What do rich people actually do with their money? Keep it under a mattress or something?
No. Almost 100% of their money is used to purchase things. Purchasing things is otherwise known as "spending".
The things rich people buy are sometimes different than what poor people buy. For example, a rich person might purchase stock, which provides capital that a corporation can use to expand and create more jobs. Or a rich person might purchase houses, which they rent out to provide housing for others.
The only people who actually "hoard" money have some kind of mental illness -- just like the other two people in your picture. A rich person who's smart (and not mentally ill) is going to spend every last dollar he has, because he knows that the only way to get a return on investment is to actually invest in something.
Don't be fooled -- "investing" and "spending" are exactly the same thing. Did you buy a house? Then you invested in it. Did you buy food and eat it? Then you invested in continuing your life so that you can earn more salary in the future. This shows why economists really have no meaningful way to distinguish the act of "buying" from the act of "investing".
>>69725227
>that is too vague, property can be collectively owned by a group
Of course it can. People are fully within their rights to pool resources. Most companies are owned by not one, but several individuals. Take McDonalds for example: there is a CEO, CFO, a board of directors, and shareholders that all own a stake in the company.
>collective ownership is as natural as private ownership, if not more
I never argued otherwise. Voluntary association is a key aspect of capitalism.
>All rich people did not deserve to have all that money, some of them did, but a lot of them didn't.
Define, in specific terms, what behavior would lead to an individual "deserving" the property which they have acquired.
>As much as you try to justify it, OP is right, you cant run away from cathegories like justice.
And here we arrive at the crux of the issue. OP asked for a deontological argument as to why capitalism is not unethical. As such, I put forth an argument that rests on the deontological, rights-based system of Natural Law. To respect the rights of others is what is just, and so, to prevent individuals from engaging in the ownership of property and engaging in voluntary trade is a direct violation of the natural rights of others.
>>69721250
There's nothing ethical about wanting to steal another person's property. Stop being greedy and feeling entitled to the money of richer people. Make your own.
>>69725893
And this only works if wealth is disproportionately distributed. If all personal wealth was equally divided amongst the world's population, everyone would get roughly $34K USD each.
>>69726065
Yup if you're a Berniefag socialist who wants to take all the money from the wealthy then if you re-distribute it equally in the US everyone would get like 50 thousand dollars. 80% would just spend it a few months on weed and hookers and then the socialist government will have to step in and force you to work like in the USSR.
>52 minutes
>not a single reply from the OP
Good job faggots you sure showed him.
>>69725717
I guess it's totally fair that people just inherit wealth and haven't earned a single penny of it. More and more of the richest people come from inherited wealth. They didn't fucking work for it, their ancestors did.
Fuck oligarchy.
>>69726911
some people are just born lucky, what are you gonna do about it?
whats next? remove eyeballs from every "ableist" so everyone equally disabled?
>>69726911
Guess what, life just isn't fair. Try working hard and maybe one day you can BTFO poorfags who want hand-me-outs too
>>69721660
If the lower class starts to be segregated out of the economy due to the fact that the money does not truly "trickle down" through the rich spending, then there is little value in it.
>>69721250
Freedom.
Seems moral to me m8.
>>69727835
Fuck the poor, if you are incapable or unwilling to make anything for yourself then why should you be given free money? Niggers already send their fucking food stamps on shit like cakes and snacks, why should MY taxes go up to pay for your weaves, hair extensions, and ghetto nails?
Go find a BLM nigger to suck off, you traitor
>>69726911
It is fair. If you work hard and earn a lot of money for yourself and your family who is the government to tell you you're not allowed to give it to your children?
>>69725227
You have the right to own property, not the right to property.
>poor people in charge of knowing the difference.
>>69728110
/thread
I went from below the poverty line to CEO of a huge firm in going to sell soon.
Like seriously, step up nigger.
Human action - Mises
If you really want to do something, in this case accumulate wealth, you would fucking do it but you ducks just want to live from rich pplz moneyz amiright?
>>69728376
Very well put.
>>69728429
>I went from below the poverty line
you should have been enslaved.
>>69726911
>being this much of a KEK
I fucking worked for my money, and my children, my offspring WILL FUCKING INHERIT IT, SUCK IT POORFAG.
It's my genetic fucking offspring, I'm voluntarily giving them money, no ones forcing me to do it.
If you worked your whole life to accumulate wealth you would understand you student communist degrnerate with a ache T-Shirt.
You wouldn't be like
>Oi m8, I worked 78 years to accumulate this wealth... Let's give 75% to some poorfags instead of my offspring
And if you would, you're a fucking liar, because to join the upper class you need to understand economics, and with that comes the rejection of all your Marxist retard beliefs by a KEK who couldn't write, impregnated his maid and kicked her out on the street.
>>69726911
>They didn't fucking work for it, their ancestors did.
So what, they should just give it all away? They don't deserve money to be handed over to them, but some random hood-rat niggers do?
>>69728134
Its not fair. How is it fair that the middle class is creating all the wealth, through technology and actual production but the people at the top that just move money around and do about the same amount of work make exponentially more? I'm not talking about the leeches of society that want money for nothing, they fucking suck. I'm talking about hard working middle class that produces all the wealth that the top get to hoard for themselves.
>>69721250
t. barnie
>>69728110
Are you daft? I'm not talking about fucking gibs you faggot. Do you actually believe that through hard work and proper planning you can break the barrier into being a fat cat? The market isn't free, you are surrounded by red tape placed by the people at the top to ensure your hard work is never paid off.
The man who worked his way to the top doesn't rule the world, only the man who jewed his way to top does.
but go on, keep sucking Soros cock.
>>69728976
If being a successful millionaire is so easy then why doesn't everyone do it?
>>69721250
This "poor" meme is retarded. The reason capitalism is so successful is because every single person has a chance to make it big in a capitalistic society. Every person has a chance to get a job and quit being poor. And even if that's not enough, we have plenty of welfare to go around to these lazy people. Sure, some people actually need welfare. But let's be honest, probably 95% of people on it absolutely don't need it and are just lazy fucks.
>>69728976
IT'S NOT FAIIIRRRRR
Go drink some bleach, you fucking toddler.
Half of the country is just as retarded as you, and DAMN itfeels great to be on the side that will own you all for the rest of your lives
>>69728976
>implying it doesn't take huge amounts of unpaid labour to make a business big
>implying it's immoral to benefit from the work of your ancestors
Just... No...
>>69721250
How the fuck does that image support your argument? If you can think long term like an actual human being, you can see that having your house stuffed with shit is antisocial and unhealthy, and saving money properly can make your life not shit
>>69721250
It's ethical because the spoils of capitalism go to people who are, in general, superior. An economic system in which the spoils of greatness were delivered to undeserving parasites would be profoundly immoral.
>>69721250
>deontology
Kant pls go and spew your autism elsewhere
>>69729137
So you think success is being a "fat cat"? If some freaky friday shit happened and you wound up in the body of a major CEO for a few months you'd wreck his holdings because you know nothing of economics or high-end business practice. Those people gain their wealth through acumen, savvy, and being generally a shitload smarter than you.
You don't "deserve" any of their wealth you worthless thief
The image is wrong. The economy is not a zero-sum system.
>>69721250
Being that money has no intrinsic value, it is impossible to 'hoard so much cash that [one] impoverish[es] others.'
This is not an opinion. This is a cold, hard fact. Although simple to spot, many leftist theories are built on this absolutely false principle.
think about it: 'hoarding' currency would likely have the precise opposite effect of printing cash: deflation.
Can't eat paper.
>Pathologically
Why do normies think they can use our medical lingo? what's pathological about a millonaire? they statistically live longer healthier lives than us plebs
>>69729438
Communist think there's nothing else to being a CEO then sitting in an office counting money.
The conversation you have right now might be entertaining but there's really no hope for these faggots, they will never grasp anything besides their fucking
>WORKERS UNITE! MARX PREDICTED REVOLUTION 200 YEARS AGO! HE WAS RIGHT IT WILL HAPPEN SOME DAY! right?
>>69721556
>Ayn Rand
>virtue ethics
Read Aristotle you absolute fucking pleb
>>69729630
They use words like "pathologically" because it's derogatory and pseudo-intelectual, and liberals/leftists like nothing better than a huge circlejerk
>>69729199
I find it funny how you just mock and don't even have a rebuttal to it not being fair. It's because you know it isn't. The people that have money will continue to make money for relatively no work. The people who make real contributions to humanity through technology make exponentially less. Capitalism benefits sociopaths like you.
>>69729808
>Real contributions
If they made a contribution, they should've been smart enough to monetize it.
>>69729808
I don't have a rebuttal because I absolutely agree with you - LIFE ISN'T FUCKING FAIR
Grow up. You will either claw your way up the shithill that is this reality, or you will be crushed beneath it. Make you choice. Nobody care about your future but you, and the quicker you figure that out the better.
You worthless leftists have circlejerked yourselves into thinking that you're "entitled" to so many things - YOU AREN'T. You didn't earn them, they aren't yours.
>>69729808
>implying these technological innovations aren't possible because of capitalism
>Be America in past
>Be Capitalist
>Be responsible for 90% of relevant technological innovations
>muh "workers are oppressed"
You probably even one of those special snowflakes that believe in wage-slavery
>>69729747
Yet if I tell them their eating habits are pathological, which is not only correct but Im also qualified to make that statement, they would go apeshit on me.
>>69728976
> le middle class meme
Yeah a bunch of paper pushers, middle managers, and lawyers are creating all of the wealth. That's right cuck lol.
The only middle class that matters are the labor aristocracy everyone else is a leech or working a job that a robot can do
>>69721250
>ethics are universal
What's "unethical" about capitalism? In a goods-services trading economy you could be a master breeder sheep farmer and get literal tons of sheep to trade for whatever the fuck you could want. What the fuck is your problem?
>>69721250
Why is someone having more money than someone else a bad thing?
>>69721250
>if a man has his house stacked to the ceiling with newspapers, we call him crazy
>if politicians flood their countries welfare system with immigrant shitskins, we call them progressive
>>69730231
Leftists live in a world of doublethink and hypocrisy, where they can do and say as they please but anyone who challenges them is RACIST SEXIST TRANSPHOBIC HOMOPHOBIC ISLAMOPHOBIC et.al, and they shut themselves down into a wailing autistic state.
Liberalism is a mental illness. They are incapable of grasping any form of reality but their own invented one.
>>69721250
"hoard"
Except they are putting that money to "good use" by employing loads of people in the developing world to make trainers for niggers on welfare (white/black whatever) because those in developing countries are better in factories. It means they earn MORE than $1 a day. You know, because like the cry-hard charity adverts tell us, they need more than $1 a day or they cant get a MCdon's.
> Everybody else in the world also lives in a megalopolis and can't find their own living solutions without some Hollywood celeb.
>>69721250
Except that a majority of the money these rich niggas have is re invested and makes more money for themselves and others. This way, economic inequality may go up, but net income for people also goes up. The only thing socialist faggots like OP can achieve is the equal sharing of misery.
>>69721250
Yet another example of leftists not understanding basic economics.
Are rich people really hoarding money? I've begun hearing this from liberals.
Is this really a thing?
The only hoarding I see is leftists trying to hoard state power.
>>69721400
No rich people have a Scrooge McDuckian vault in their house. Deflation makes that a bad investment.
>>69730894
Back to your shed
https://mises.org/library
Here lefties.
Get some Econ 101 in your brain and stop listening to this fucking skidmarx.
Seriously, Marx is horrible.
>He was a horrible writer (I read Das Kapital in its original language)
>extreme emotional prejudice
>Talks about "muh exploitation"; impregnates maid, kicks her out on the streets.
>advocates for a violent "revolution"
>predicted that the revolution will happen "any day now" in the 19th fucking century
OP, when you decide to pull your head out of your ass read this:
http://s000.tinyupload.com/download.php?file_id=03768143738375589224&t=0376814373837558922435204
>>69721250
>I'll take "what are assets and investments?" for 1000, Alex
>>69721400
Except the richest of the rich do have trillions in offshore tax havens that keep growing.
>>69731359
Yeah, this or Henry Hazlitt's Economics in one lesson.
I've read both but for a dumbass commie I'd suggest Sowell as he uses more basic language that 65 IQ dindu can understand.
>>69721250
>hoard money
Are liberals really this retarded, or do they just play pretend on the internet?
Most of their "wealth" is in things like property, or in stocks. All of which are productive uses of wealth as that money is out there doing things for society.
Hoarding money in a giant vault like Scrooge McDuck is a fantastic way to fuck yourself over with inflation.
>>69721250
Through trade both parties get goods or services they want or need. If you don't think people getting what they want or need is good then you're a retard.
If you want people to have what they want or need without trade being involved then you got two options other than trade:
>Magic
or
>Slavery
Capitalism is the most moral option we have & if you disagree you're in fantasy land or you're immoral or both.
>>69721660
if we subscribe to the idea that those who create value should receive the most of it, how do you justify that so much of the wealth today is concentrated in the hands of non-laborers? of those who own the product of other people's labor rather than doing any themselves.
does that not appear contradictory? how is it not in the worker's best interest to remove the capitalists from their seat and take the full value of their labor for themselves, rather than allowing a portion to go to the capitalist as profit?
>>69731726
Unless its actual gold, silver, or platinum.
>>69732059
Anyone can be a laborer. That is why labor is not valuable.
I think the problem arises from the fact that the cost of staying alive when your poor is almost the same as when you are rich. While that leaves poor people with almost no spare money to invest or save that is barely a drop in the ocean for rich people if they choose to live in a similar environment they can invest most of their earning which will see a return. This leads to: the best way to make money is to have money. Which given enough time will cause a massive split between the the rich and the poor which is plain as day to see.
This wouldn't be a problem if inheritance wasn't a thing because we would all start at nothing but as it stands today whether you are born into a rich or poor family this is probably the single biggest factor in how your life will turn out.
>>69732251
Naa gold and silver got fucked a while ago
>>69732059
God, the Marxist propaganda really got to this one.
Four words.
>UNPAID LABOUR BY CAPITALISTS
As you Marxist won't understand that statement, seriously scroll the fuck up, an anon even gave you a book to read.
Don't post your fucking propaganda hear until you read it.
>that they impoverish others
>that they impoverish others
>that they impoverish others
>that they impoverish others
That's not how capitalism works. Get fucked.
>>69721250
>People literally see the rich as mister krabs
>>69721250
>Explain to me again how capitalism is not inherently unethical.
Burden of proof you fucking degenerate.
>>69721250
I think if you understood that billionaires do not store a billion dollars in a safe like scrooge McDuck, but instead own businessness, and the total value of their assets is how their net worth is assessed, would be a good start.
If every penny has been earned legally, I see no problem.
>>69728429
I believe this German, after all who would go on an anonymous Mongolian tapestry forum and just tell lies?
>>69732473
the burden is on you to prove that all businesses result from unpaid labor by capitalists.
i'm not going to read thomas sowell just to see if he proves your argument correct. if it's such an important aspect of your defense, i'm sure you can articulate it for me in your own words, or perhaps just quote sowell. maybe even tell me the page he proves your
>UNPAID LABOUR BY CAPITALISTS
completely correct in all cases.
>>69721250
>Zero sum economics
Liberals need to be rounded up and given mandatory economic lessons.
Wealth is not a zero sum game. If you disincentivize productivity, we will all be impoverished, all because you wanted to see the rich destroyed instead of pulling yourselves up.
Most of the wealth that wealthy people own are assets whose value comes from their ability to make a profit. However, these assets are not just printers of free money. They come with risk, and are subject to competition which limits the profit they can make.
The real enemy is corruption, which removes the ability for competition to keep profits from getting excessive relative to risk. Leftists are guilty as hell in this regard.
>>69721400
>>69721947
>>69722074
>>69725270
et al.
Then what about
>>69731546
Free market capitalism is the best system. Crony capitalism, in which billionaires are and stay billionaires because they have political friends, and through their political friends rip off the population is wrong.
capitalism can neither be ethical or unethical. however capitalism has allowed the greatest amount of freedom, charity, and quality of life developments for the average person compared to any other system
>>69727993
> You have two cows. You give one to your neighbor.
more like the state forces you to. What they described there is charity in a Capitalist society.
>>69721250
>Implying the rich aren't investing that money in businesses to make even more money off their investments
>>69721250
>Poe's Law
>>69733293
this
>>69733817
No it hasn't shithead it took 50 years for wages to improve during the industrial revolution and that was only due to socialist movements. Why do you think socialism or marxism ever happened if mistreatments of the working class never happened due to your beautiful idea of charity.
>>69734760
>implying the rich have an incentive to invest money when they can do anything they want
>>69732059
>those who own the product of other people's labor rather than doing any themselves.
>have a boat
>let people fish from it if they give me a cut of what they catch
>add value to society by putting boat to productive use
>invest or loan money
>circulates through economy
>add value to society by alleviating someone else's shortage with your surplus
"Creating value" is about more than manual labor like swinging hammers. It's about finding an untapped demand, and providing it.
>>69721250
personally i think we have to look at our monetary system when so many jobs can be mechanised should we work for a living?
>>69721250
>hoarding money that can be used to buy things
I mean, I'm sure in some cultures cats are a form of currency, but probably not in any English speaking countries.
>>69721711
We do. Don't act like there isn't a difference. The only good thing you dice rolling jews are good for is loans to help Aryan Master Race build things.
>>69729438
>those people gain wealth through acumen, savvy, being generally a shitload smarter than you
Nah they accumulate it through jewish tribalism, parasites lobbying laws to shift money into their favor, controlling and manipulating capitalism to bottle neck themselves from whoever is seeking to reach their level.
Typical cuck thinking the world is ruled by the "Smart and sophisticated ceo"
That CEO you're thinking of? That man who worked his small business into am empire? Is a nat, to the true amassesers of wealth.
There are plenty of smart people in this world, they peruse things to improve humanity, engineers, scientists, mathematicians. But you've basically admitted that they are worthless to the almighty kike mage, the man who knows all the methods of playing a system once designed to simplify trade into a game of numbers.
Aren't you proud son? you've discovered the flaw of it all, there is no reward for doing anything significant, just play the system like good Ole Soros.
>>69729665
I'm not a communist you fucking kraut, I'm for a free trade and an economy that rewards pursuits of significance rather than money movers.
>>69721250
It's the only system that relies on individual private ownership and voluntary transactions
>>69736123
Should we keep fucking importing new people into a country with a naturally shrinking population when the positions these people fill will soon be obsolete?
What do you think millions of unemployed and unfed Muslims and Africans are going to do then?
>>69724024
How stupid are you? Do you think you can just put trillions of dollars into a fucking bank account?
>>69731726
There are people who hoard wealth and don't put it to use.
We call them Chinese.
>>69737021
why do we need pay it sounds like marxism but it isnt why do things have worth? why cant we provide food ans shelter and let people do what the fuck they want... we'll always power and food and core services but having a mandatory service towards one of these will mean people work less and no need for cash also destroys pointless bureaucratic jobs
>>69729438
You know it's a mixed situation right?
There are plenty of highly paid CEOs who literally couldn't run a lemonade stand, plenty of people who are born into wealth and build it by simply buying money generating investments, and in Western Democracies now a whole avalanche of rent seeking crony mooches.
Just like there are Business Owners who could find a way to proverbially sell snow to the eskimos who enrich society.
The world isn't either/or.
It's impossible to hoard money to the extent that it impoverishes others.
If you remove money from the money supply, everyone else's money increases in value. Their purchasing power increases.
Who writes this nonsense? As if newspapers and cats are a medium of exchange.
>>69737520
YOU can. Why would I want to work my ass off to provide free things to people who don't want to work.
This is where your whole system fundamentally collapses.
>>69737520
>destroy pointless bureaucrat jobs
>In a society where everyone's goods and services are provided by the government
You are mentally retarded.
>>69721250
This is the dumbest fucking comparison that I've ever seen. A vault is where you put cash, ergo, if it's full of cash then there's nothing wrong it it. A house is where people live. Therefore, if it's full of shit that makes it hard to live there, yes, that's a problem.
If someone had a house stacked so high with straps of money that they could barely move around in it, YEAH, I'd be like, "Dude, you have a problem. Money doesn't go here, it goes in a safe or a bank."
Can you get any more retarded OP?
>>69737757
If we're at a stage in society where cats and newspapers are high value commodities used in a bartering system, all the hoarded fiat currency in the world won't be worth anymore than bags of sliced newspaper.
>>69738046
all the mid level management at pointless shit companies no one gives a fuck about
>>69737881
hence the use of the mandatory you still work less than current system and believe it or not some people enjoy working... i know i dont get it either
>>69731546
This.
It also contributes to inflation which rapes the rest of us but not them anywhere near as much. They're too big to fail.
>tfw no trailer cat lady gf
>>69737881
where my system really collapses is how to you deal with the inequality already in built to the system who gets to live in the countryside in a house worth a million and who gets the shitty apartment... also how do you get peopleto hand over things theyve earnt already and how do you get foreign intrests to invest resources if you have none
>>69738557
>It also contributes to inflation
You think that hording money -- literally keeping the money off the market or in foreign countries -- is causing inflation? You're an embarrassment.
>>69721250
>accumulating wealth is a bad thing
Fucking leftists man
>>69725429
Yo nigga you a'aite
>>69724089
You want to know what buying 50 Ferrari like cars does? It makes your car better. The shit that they put on a top of the line car is the prototype for the shit tier cars of the future. Do you think that TCS or ABS disc brakes first came on the market on an escort? No, they started on race/super cars, and rich motherfuckers had to buy them to make those innovations worth while.
>>69721250
>talk to me about the ethics of x
>but you can only use one small branch of ethics
>>69738557
Yes.
The money still exists.
That's how it works. The money is still US. The more money representing the wealth of the country the less each individual measure of currency is worth.
>>69739969
>>69739065
>>69739551
This, it's important to understand that all new technologies will be expensive when they're first developed. It would be unfeasible to distribute the latest tech to everyone in the socialist commonwealth (if they'd even develop it in the first place). The existence of people willing and able to purchase luxuries both a) funds development in that field and b) provides feedback on whether or not that technology is even desirable (channeling resources to the most desired products).
>>69739969
So if there are X dollars in circulation, and I take half of them and store them in an offshore account, you are saying that the remaining X/2 dollars does not increase in purchasing power but in fact _goes down_ in purchasing power even though the total amount of money in circulation hasn't increased?
>>69729808
>not being fair
Life is not fair you child. You are only owed what people want to give you. Forcing someone to give you more by using the threat of the government coming in and taking it is robbery.
Is Corporatism good, no. That is what the government should be stopping not being part of.
>>69740277
Pretty much.
Currency does and doesn't work under the same principles that actual commodities do.
Money is representative of what a country can give in return for that said currency.
So if a single dollar represented the entire wealth of the US, lets assume it's 1 trillion.
We print another dollar.
Now both dollars are worth, .5 trillion.
Just because I have one of those dollars stored in a bank account and never let it leave the bank doesn't mean it's not worth .5 trillion dollars, or that the dollar being 'spent'/'used' is worth an entire trillion.
Inflation happens regardless.
>>69740861
But no money is being printed, they are moving it to an offshore account. If that money is not spent or is only spent outside of America*, the remaining dollars will go up in value. Quit being thick.
* If you object to the "spending outside of America doesn't bid up prices" argument then picture it with gold in an isolated community. If there is only a small amount of gold in this community, it will be very valuable. The residents may know that there are large sums of gold outside their community, but it will never enter their economy so for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist and won't effect the price of their gold. In reality, no economy is this isolated but the effect is there. This is why we can see asset inflation in the financial markets but little to no inflation in the consumer markets: the money remains in the financial system and doesn't bid up prices in the consumer sectors. Similarly, a bunch of U.S. dollars being passed around China will bid up prices (in terms of USD) in China but will have a lesser effect in the U.S.
>>69721400
>implying the edgy 16 year old berniefag that made this knows that
>>69721250
>You have lots of money, which means you made lots of people poor.
This is how progressives think. Wealth generation is impossible under Marxist philosophy.
>>69741528
>>69740861
I'm not sure if you guys really understand how the whole offshore money thing began. They spent a little off shore, then made money. They don't want to bring the money the made into the USA because they don't want it to get tax fucked, when they can keep it off shore and invest it in other off shore companies.
>>69721250
>hoarding cash impoverishes others
Shitty economics understanding detected.
>>69742112
I understand that. He is the one arguing that the simple act of moving money from one location to another causes inflation.
lol at the anti semites trying to justify usury
just because capitalism is better than socialism doesn't make it right.
>>69742271
Gotcha.
That doesn't really do shit. It's more the fact that they can't bring the money they made into the country and spend it here that's causing major issues.
>>69742458
>just because capitalism is better than socialism doesn't make it right.
Then nothing is going to be totally correct, what is the most correct and kills the least amount of people.
>>69721250
because any dumb fuck can stack their house to the ceiling with newspapers or cats, but only a select few can do the last.
Also they don't impoverish others by making money, you can't steal something from someone if they never owned that thing.
>>69721250
One is useful, and one is just a stupid whore. Guess which is which?
>>69725445
Kek, this post is criminally underrated.
>>69721250
>Cause financial crises through artificially low interest rates
>Companies start hording money so they have capital for large projects when it inevitably happens again
>Claim they are impoverishing people by doing so
>>69743539
your mom
>>69722850
what percent of Americans even have a million dollars? 70% of America makes less than 60k a year. Yet everyone can succeed im America right?
>>69732059
>mfw soon enough robots will replace most laborers and capitalism will path mankind's way to the space age
I can't fucking wait to fire my 6 employees and get efficient AIs.
I used to have 12 guys but thanks to new software technologies I fired 6 already and got only the necessary ones working.
Soon no one will be able to cry "but muh brainless hand work is what brings the money" and it will be amazing.
>>69725270
Poor people have no money to invest. Most middle class people don't either. The game is rigged for the rich. Wages haven't even increased in 20 years. An account made 65k 20 years ago he still makes that now. Every CEO should take pay cuts to pay us more.
It's not entirey unethical. Capitalism with some aspects of socialism has proven to be the most prosperous.
>>69740861
Wrong. Inflation is based on the money supply, not how much currency has been printed. I suggest you look up "money supply" before you reply.
>>69721250
>says hoarding cash impoverishes others
>implying money is a zero-sum game
There are so many flaws in the logic of the last statement in that pic that it is easily dismissed as created by someone with no grasp of economics whatsoever. Not to mention that the wealth of the Fortune 500 has hardly any relation to the amount of cash they have. Their wealth is measured in their assets, which are going to be proportioned across things like stocks, bonds, real estate, gold, venture capital, and so on.
Let's assume a more expansive implied meaning of "cash" in that statement, so let's include all the forms of wealth instead and sum up at last comment by saying "creating so many wealthy people also creates so many poor people". That is an absurdity on so many levels. Point is, new wealth is created and added to the pie all the time. The pie is constantly growing. New products are created all the time, new labor is created all the time, and new loans are created all the time. The amount of wealth available to carve yourself a slice from is always expanding. Your wealth has nothing at all to do with someone else's poverty.
>>69728110
You didn't understand his post nor economics whatsoever.
If the """"""""""""people""""""""""""" decide to say fuck off to your money then your money is valueless
You cant ignore the poor
This is what people complain about when they complain about "extremism". Capitalism is not a 100% perfect system senpai.
>>69746064
Inflation is related to the velocity of money, not the supply.
>>69722510
Bill Hwhittle
>>69721250
I'm fascist, even I know that it is stupid to ignore the poor. Don't you know history? Most revolutions are class revolutions. The best way to defeat communism is to end capitalism.
>>69721250
Capitalists be like, welfare is bad because they don't do work when achieving money, but then they will support usury and bankers who do the same thing at a greater magnitude.
>>69721250
How about utilitarian?
Late stage (current capitalism) is totally unethical but its clearly the most utilitarian system for resource management (good luck arguing that under the right conditioning communism is superior)
Have a million newspapers or a million cats is a problem. Having a million dollars is not a problem.
/thread
>>69721250
>Explain to me again how capitalism is not inherently unethical.
The burden of proof is on you. The null hypothesis is that it isn't harmful. Make an argument why it is or fuck off.
saged for shitty bait
