http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/17/obama-backed-solar-plant-could-be-shut-down-for-not-producing-enough-energy/
>solar power plant is more efficient they say
>solar power plant is more cheaper they say
1.6 Billion tax payer;s money down the drain.
Extra keks: environmentalists, same who supported solar energy before, are now protesting because the solar panels are killing burds
Why do we even Liberal Science
Solar power has always had such a low energy density that outside out outright deserts they aren't really worth it.
The Science has always said that. It's the politicians that have bought them in an attempt at looking green.
You could be researching fusion energy instead of giving 10 billion $ to Israel each year but nooooo...fucking krauts have to do it, even when they are being genocided they do better than you burgers.
>>69717322
I don't get why they would take it down at this point.
They already dumped the expenses into it and now all they have to do is pay the maintenance workers. The fuel is free.
>>69717888
It's bleeding money tho.
Only 2/3 of the target production has been met and used natural gas to do so.
>>69717322
>The plant only generated 45 percent of expected power in 2014 and only 68 percent in 2015, according to government data.
>And it does all this at a cost of $200 per megawatt hour — nearly six times the cost of electricity from natural gas-fired power plants. Interestingly enough, Ivanpah uses natural gas to supplement its solar production.
Jesus Christ how do you fuck it up that bad?
>>69717807
Because liberal science. Liberals fed the public for decades the mythical hazards of fusion energy.
>>69718191
It was doomed from the start. The plant wasn't built to supply energy to the people but political power to the current government
>>69718191
But it rises futurization of the surrounding lands anon.
>>69718372
They probably should have set their target goals lower then because now they all look retarded.
>>69718084
>California regulators announced Thursday that Ivanpah would have until the end of July to produce more power or face shut down.
It bleed money at the very start now it's just not meeting expectations. Which is a stupid reason to shut the entire thing down, especially when the fuel is fucking FREE.
>>69718498
If the Mojave was prime real estate they wouldn't have built a solar plant there.
>>69718501
The target energy production was calculated based on the size of the plant. I think they already gave it a breathing room but still failed miserably
I'm pretty sure more coal industry companies go bankrupt than solar ones.
>>69718911
Then I'm going to stand by my original statement.
>>69717322
>solar power plant is more cheaper they say
Yo I'm so fucking confused over here...
I thought we said " X is cheaper " not " X is more cheaper" . Coming from a burger it confuses the fuck outta me. I NEED ANSWERS
>>69719044
It's still the cheapest energy source the decline was purely artificial though since government intervention. Not the most environmental friendly but if we ignore that it's still the best
>>69719388
It's double superlative... Let's just say it's like using "literally" for expression
>>69718191
B-BUT EVIL OIL CORPORATIONS
CLIMATE SCIENCE
RACIST WHITES
REEEEEEEE
>you'll never read about this on NY Times, Huffpo, or Salon
>Tidal, wave, and geothermal energy are the most promising in terms of realistic energy generation and cost
>Instead everyone is focused on wind and solar, the most costly and least practical
>Also oil and gas companies are heavily invested in promoting solar and wind energy
Coincidence?
>>69717322
Meanwhile solar city is doing great.
Solar power works just fine. Government projects not so much..
>>69719388
That's correct. OP is a nigger who can't use his own language properly. Fucking disgraceful.
>>69717888
It also said that it uses Natural Gas as a supplement. That has to bring up the cost in operating expenses.
>>69719388
No, you're right. OP doesn't know how to English.
>>69718605
The energy is free but maintenance and worker salaries are not. Perhaps too many people are not on the plan that this grid is powered to, perhaps they simply plan to close it temporarily until better cells are made for solar energy, or maybe the birds are just snackbaring the panels too quickly.
>>69717807
>tfw can't even talk about nuclear energy without someone bringing up MUH CHERNOBYL
>>69719044
That's due to liberal government regulation to protect the environment. It's not a bad idea but smaller coal companies go bankrupt.
>>69720338
It's just incredibly expensive to safely dispose of nuclear waste. Until they find a good way of disposing it. (Shooting it into space) then it's not worth it.
>>69718605
But it isn't fucking free. It's a colossal network of mirrors that requires hundreds or thousands of people to maintain it, and the only way it's even gotten close to its energy targets has been by burning natural gas, which isn't free.
It's a money sink. And if you think this is retarded, just wait until they buy into that "lets make roads out of solar panels!" bullshit.
>>69720594
France found a way. We have deserts the size of countries. Literally just build one facility for all the waste somewhere in Nevada.
>>69720616
These projects are shit. But solar is pretty cool. SolarCIty are doing pretty great.
>>69720594
>Until they find a good way of disposing it.
but it in a deep hole, not connected to the water table. It's not that hard. Unless you're an ameriburger that is.
>>69718605
It currently costs more than six times the cost of power generated at natural gas plants and it still has to have it's own natural gas backup, because as Lewis Black retardedly pointed out once, THE SUN GOES AWAY AT NIGHT ASSHOLES.
>>69720732
We already do that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain_nuclear_waste_repository
>>69720912
Elon pls go.
>>69721158
Why call me elon?
>>69720147
>>69720616
read
>>69717888
>hundreds or thousands of people to maintain it
A team of 15 could easily maintain those.
>>69721236
>A team of 15 could easily maintain those.
Obviously not or there's no way they'd be shutting it down.
>>69721204
Ok, Mr. Musk if you want to get formal.
(Hint: check out Solar City in Nevada)
>>69717322
> thinks this it not a conspiracy of rockefeller family.
> being actually this retarded.
never go full retard son.
>>69717888
There are probably hundreds of "maintenance workers" who do nothing but collect checks. Good old fashioned mafia-style no-show jobs most likely.
>>69721376
What about them?
>>69717888
they have to work with batteries
Wether you believe in global warming or not we need a better option than oil and coal. Nuclear can work but it every country has those capabilities.
>>69717322
So that's why you only get one shot per day out of the Archimedes. It didn't even do that much damage.
>>69717322
Every single part of the energy sector in America receives shit tons of government aid. Yes even the oil industry.
>>69720382
Coal is far more toxic than a nuclear fucking power plant. Also west virginia is a shit hole and deserves to die.
>>69721751
Shut your ignorant warming hole you fucking AGW cultist.
>>69722096
We can't be sure AGW is happening.. but the odds are looking pretty high..
Even if we're not sure, probably best to stop relying on fuels that we have reason to believe may cost us trillions of dollars more in wealth over the next few decades than they provide.
>>69719708
>Government projects not so much.
All of these things are public-private partnerships. A coalition of companies can't do a project this large without government buy-in and regulation at many levels.
>Ivanpah — which is owned by BrightSource Energy, NRG Energy and Google
>>69722615
I guess they really fucked up then. It's hard to tell what factor government involvement had in a public-private project. Was the projects the government's idea, and then they paid some private companies to invest at low risk and build it? Or did the government just provide a tax break? It depends. I know nothing about this project.
>>69720917
>THE SUN GOES AWAY AT NIGHT ASSHOLES.
People use the most power in daytime plus what is hydroelectric?
>>69722858
>what is hydroelectric?
power generated by turbines using rivers or artificial lakes. Why?
>>69722858
the continental US has pretty much tapped all hydroelectric potential. its significant but not enough on its own
>>69718605
>the fuel is free
Coal is free too! You can just pick it up from the earth. :^)
>>69722858
>People use the most power in daytime plus what is hydroelectric?
I'm assuming you're talking about "just pump water up lakes during the day using solar power, then let it drain at night", in which case:
A great way to demonstrate just how massive the losses are that the Thermodynamic Jew forces on you for exchanging one type of energy for another.
>>69722812
It's another in a long line of California pioneering America's energy future. The hills in that area are covered in three generations of wind turbines. There are biomass and solar facilities around there too. Obama provided loan guarantees but the county and state had to have been involved.
Solar Thermal has great potential. Here's a Solar Updraft Tower, in theory they can be greenhouses or desalination underneath and just use regular wind turbines pointing downwards to generate from the updraft.
>>69717322
Liberal
Scince
yeah
>>69723177
>on its own
The whole point is that no single system is complete. We need to maintain a broad and growing portfolio of electricity options while forcing those industries to innovate and clean up their externalities.
>>69723088
>power generated by turbines using rivers
Power stored, not generated. Hydro operators buy power off the grid when it's cheap at night, pump water upstream then generate electricity during peak demand.
>>69717322
this is retardewd, solar power works on a private level, where regular people install solar panels in their own homes, or whole appartment buildings on the roof, but this, this is totally and absolutelly retarded, and this is why communism doesn't work, you shjould know this by now harberger.
>>69720594
>nuclear waste
Retard
It's not even a fucking problem.
It's less radioactive than fucking airplanes.
>>69723643
Thermodynamics oesn't matter in the US, waffle, market forces matter. This is how the current electricity market works here, it's very decentralized.
>>69717322
Every type of Energy is retarded besides Hydrogen with solar/wind power to make the gas and just put in the FUCKING ENGINE! generator
>>69724166
And it's 100% jewish.
Reminder that the US power grids are extremely vulnerable to terrorism, and when the energy companies were told to fix them, they said no, because it would hurt their temporary profit margins.
>>69717322
>not to mention the plant was blinding pilots flying over the area and incinerating birds.
>incinerating birds.
I don't know why I laughed so hard.
>>69717322
>Liberal Science
>>69724015
>The whole point is that no single system is complete. We need to maintain a broad and growing portfolio of electricity options while forcing those industries to innovate and clean up their externalities.
oh god, a liebereal cuck
shoo shoo pooey liebereal
>>69717322
>solar thermal
Why is America still in the 1980's?
>>69721118
You mean the multi-billion dollar facility that has never opened because of liberal NIMBY whiners?
>>69724015
Traditional uranium reactors are approximately 40,000 times more efficient in joules per gram than combustion.
The theoretical output of a thorium reactor is around 7,000,000 times more powerful than combustion.
Not to mention fusion, which I don't have the numbers for.
Combustion is more powerful than pretty much all non nuclear energy sources.
Just a thought.
>>69720594
>Until they find a good way of disposing it.
yeah, where could you possibly find room to dig a hole in the second and third largest countries on earth
>>69717322
>Solar is more efficient as a point of use generation technology
>let's centralize it!
>>69717322
Why not just melt down criminals, spics, niggers, Muslims, sodomites, liberals, and Boston Red Sox fans for biofuels?
>>69724315
>Market forces are 100% jewish.
So?
>Reminder that the US power grids are extremely vulnerable to terrorism
Utter bullshit. The decentralized nature of the US grid is one of it's great strengths. Another strength in our energy security is that at the base, it's mostly private, medium-large companies running grid elements. When shit goes sideways they are flexible enough to act fast, the New York Blackout being a good example.
>>69725635
Friend who works at raytheon told me otherwise. As well as a few greentexts by marines.
>>69724422
No, I just believe that environmental, labor and some other regulation is necessary to maintain a nation. Dumping your toxic waste on my property is trespassing, whether that is common or private property.
>>69724294
>besides Hydrogen
and how many barrels of oil equivalent(boe) does it cost for each boe out?
>>69724827
Energy density and heat balance are important. I'm 110% for nuclear, especially fusion.
>>69724422
Nice bait friend.
>>69725887
>The whole point is that no single system is complete. We need to maintain a broad and growing portfolio of electricity options
no single system is complete? wtf you mean by this?
>We need to maintain a broad and growing portfolio of electricity options
including solar that doesn't work at night or when it's dark, and wind that doesn't work when it's calm?
>>69726026
not your buddy, pal
>>69723703
>Solar Thermal has great potential.
Does it?
I thought we tried that shit in Spain decades ago and it was a failure.
Updraft towers seem more promising to me: very simple in both design and materials required.
>>69725560
Go fuck yourself
>>69725760
Details or BS.
>>69717322
All this green energy crap ever was was a way for Obama to pay off his campaign donors with other people's money.
>>69724125
says the guy who poisoned the whole middle east with depleted uranium shells and tanks lol, yeah perfectly safe stuff !! how about you have a nice cup of depleted uranium tomorrow morning instead of coffee and see how safe that shit really is for yourself? faggot.
>>69717807
jews don't like the idea of distributed atomic energy production
if it's not centralized they lose a significant amount of control, not to mention every random fuckwit having enough power to run an enrichment centrifuge at his fingertips
>>69720594
>shooting it into space
NOTHING SAYS SAFE LIKE THE CHANCE OF NUCLEAR FUEL BURNING UP IN THE ATMOSPHERE LIKE A GIANT DIRTY BOMB
Leftists understand science about as well as they understand economics.
hydocarbons > hippie crap
market economy > commie crap
>>69726265
and on top of that, there's the profit loss keeping everyone tied to their local coal plant, and the possibility of proliferation of nuclear material
your jewish overlords do not trust you with atomic energy
>>69726207
lol, fucking argies
>>69725635
>act fast, the New York Blackout being a good example.
Wait.
So Americans think the New York blackout wasn't a complete fuckup?
>>69726174
>details
>about shit from a defense contractor.
It was also quite a while ago.
I believe he said that there were 3 or 4 very weak key points in the grids that a few small strike teams armed with emp equipment could take down. And that they couldn't redo the grid because the energy companies wouldn't let them.
He didn't say too much more than that.
>>69726265
>>69726357
What is Thorium.
You won't be able to make weapons with Thorium.
>>69717561
>Ivanpah
Wait, it's literally in the middle of the desert, in the southern part of the country, in a high energy cost state.
It's probably close to the best case scenario possible for a big solar farm.
>>69726390
Literally the Strayas of south america
>>69717322
>they think peopel wont abuse energy
I have solar panels in my house ad they save me money but i will never support such stupid idea
>>69720594
>It's just incredibly expensive to safely dispose of nuclear waste. Until they find a good way of disposing it. (Shooting it into space) then it's not worth it.
Why not put it in a fast breeder reactor and get the other 99.7% of the fuel out of the 'spent' uranium fuel rods?
Also your opinion on all topics relating to engineering and power generation are forever rejected because you think throwing away our nuclear fuels is viable.
This is due to a distinct lack of diversity.
>>69717322
Oh yeah, I remember when they tried to open one in NC and the locals told them to fuck off.
Then the news networks twisted it into some shit about "Local rednecks scared solar plant will steal the sun's energy".
>>69726050
>no single system is complete? wtf you mean by this?
The US grid is a network of networks of systems, similar to the Internet's structure. It has regions, regulators and technologies that are woven together at all sorts of levels.
>including solar that doesn't work at night or when it's dark, and wind that doesn't work when it's calm?
Yes, it adds to overall capacity. The solar or wind operator sells power on an open grid, it is purchased for immediate use or if cheap enough, pumped into hydro for distribution later.
There are at least three effective storage techniques available right now: onsite pressurized air or molten salt and offsite using hydroelectric.
>>69726286
It's not hard faggot, we launch satellites all the time
>>69722858
>People use the most power in daytime
False. Most power use is in the evening. 5-9PM
>>69726794
Breeder reactors are not politically viable due to the threat of nuclear proliferation. Your opinion on all topics relating to law and politics are forever rejected.
>>69726653
And your butthole is probably sore from wiping with old newspapers everyday.
>>69726105
Solar Thermal in general has potential. It's just harnessing the Sun for process heat. There are other current solar thermal systems that don't use these towers. They use troughs or reflector dishes and usually heat some kind of oil that provides heat to a turbine.
A full updraft tower has a nice trifecta: Water desalination, food production and electricity from one structure. It also produces minerals from seawater and process heat. How big, how small, can we make something like that?
>>69726932
>similar to the Internet's structure. It has regions, regulators and technologies that are woven together at all sorts of levels.
You have absolutely no idea how the internet works, huh?
>>69726543
Irradiated material is enough for the kike overlords to say "BAN! BAN! BAN!"
>>69721759
You are getting ahead of yourself.
They haven't even found the computer to realign the mirrors.
>>69727035
I think you're talking about Venezuela, their flag is the one with stars.
>>69717322
Why is environmentalism considered liberal? It's truly it's own thing since no political stance truly supports it.
>>69727222
>There are other current solar thermal systems that don't use these towers.
AFAIK they also lose money.
>>69726207
Why not eat some enriched uranium?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x42qi7Fz1L0
Skip to 33:00 and watch a man eat radioactive waste and shit truth.
>>69726182
>Obama
A lot of these projects started under Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan. Bush Jr. loved biomass (muh switchgrass), clean coal and solar panels.
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/energy/
>>69727222
they don't work so good at night though?
>>69726315
>Leftists understand science about as well as they understand economics.
kek
>>69726932
and how much more expensive is it than oil/gas etc?
I suppose you don't care about old people freezing in the winter, as long as your virtue is broadcast from the rooftops for being such a friend of mother gayer
>>69727359
It's only in America.
In Europe most right-wing parties are also environmentalist.
Especially Christian parties.
>>69727021
>Breeder reactors are not politically viable due to the threat of nuclear proliferation. Your opinion on all topics relating to law and politics are forever rejected.
Are we worried about the USA getting nuclear weapons?
Or the UK. Or France?
How about the Russians, Chinese, Indians or Pakistanis?
Moron.
>>69726409
Not at all. Imagine something like that happening in Mumbai or Rio. Ohio operators fucked up royally but the grid was mostly back online within 48 hours.
Solar Energy is just not effective here on earth, Wind energy and nuclear are the future
>>69720794
Solarcity only works because of subsidies
>>69726442
EMP? Discounted.
There are weaknesses in the US grid but there are weaknesses in any electric system.
>>69727652
>Wind energy
Have the wind stop, go a week without any electrical power from wind. Better fire up that gas plant.
>>69727558
Right wingers in America are environmentalists, they're just not for the government subsidizing failed fuel alternatives or muh carbon credits.
Just send Optical Rectennas to orbit the Sun, then in 40 years when they being their cycles, they can send back energy that will arrive in about 2 and we'll have an untapped constant energy source for the whole planet to utilize.
With current technology, however, you would have to send thousands of them to the Sun, and it would take trillions and trillions of dollars.
>>69727568
Yes. Internationally, we are worried about all those things. Modern international foreign policy calls for denuclearization. Breeder reactors are not politically viable.
>>69717322
>libs shoot down nuclear power because "muh three mile chernobyl fukushima"
>build a shit ton of solar generators which eat a shit ton of land
>still doesn't produce enough power
Fucking luddites.
>>69727634
>comparing yourself to 3rd world countries.
>look Mom, I'm better than a poo in loo.
In Western Europe shit like this wouldn't happen.
>>69727857
There are all kinds of ways to take advantage of atomic energy.
To not invest in this, is to condemn our future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjnILeK99oQ
Obama is a fucking retard.
>>69717322
KILLING BIRDS HOW DOES IT KILL BIRDS THE FUCKING CHEMICAL PLANTS KILL MORE BIRDS THE HYBRID SOLAR PLANT RESEARCH
>>69727388
The ones I'm most familiar with are part of a Department of Energy project in a cogeneration facility. They are being used for a long term study and the power is dumped to the grid. There are some big trough solar thermal fields in California, no idea if they are profitable.
>>69727808
>>69727558
Doesn't seem like it's working anywhere, bees are going to die and Monsanto is going to replace them with patented robo-bees. The powers that be inherently against sustainability for the sake of short term profit and no political side seems to address this.
>>69728059
And Merkel is Hitler with a second coat of paint, what's your point?
>>69719927
Ive seen them irl, they do look pretty bad ass when they're going
>>69727742
This came from the mouth of a defense contractor, m8, of course he'd talk about theoretical/experimental weapons. Destroying the physical facility would have the same exact effect. These facilities are key points on all the power grids. Take em out, you take out the grid itself.
He said the the destruction of these key facilities would basically put us back to the stone age. It'd take so long to fix them that there would be nationwide riots and mass scale destruction.
>>69727857
Tell me, why would you use a breeder reactor to try and make nuclear weapons material rather than cheaper, proven methods? No one has ever used a fast breeder reactor to make nuclear weapons.
Further how can you produce nuclear weapons material from a breeder reactor that is subject to normal inspections like all reactors are, it takes months of operation to breed the material and it's easy to spot by an inspection team.
Lastly because you didn't answer the question, why are you worried about, the USA, Russia, France, UK, India, China and Pakistan getting nuclear weapons (which they all already have) from a more expensive process of fast neutron breeding?
>>69727546
>they don't work so good at night though?
Solar Updraft Towers? At a certain scale an SUT pulls condensed air in at night, generating some percent of the power they make during the day. A greenhouse configuration would allow for fresh water condensation at night.
>and how much more expensive is it than oil/gas etc?
Solar, wind or something like an SUT? Solar and wind are currently competitive in some markets. West Texas wouldn't be covered in wind turbines, otherwise.
>I suppose you don't care about old people freezing in the winter, as long as your virtue is broadcast from the rooftops for being such a friend of mother gayer
A distributed grid including renewables prevents old folks from freezing. You bongs have a problem every summer with no air conditioning.
You have a problem with residential solar? Seriously, WTF? There's nothing wrong with onsite generation.
>>69728072
>The ones I'm most familiar with are part of a Department of Energy project in a cogeneration facility.
Solar powered water boilers? Why?
>>69728066
It's like Archimedes death ray, but for birds, and it works.
>>69728072
Solar is huge. Radio ads are offering all kinds of deals directly to homeowners - put panels on your roof! You can own the panels, you lease the panels, you can set up deals where you pay off the panels with the electricity they produce.
Solar is not just thriving - its blowing up exponentially.
>>69727808
>Right wingers in America are environmentalists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNSHLSiITcY
>>69728742
>Solar and wind are currently competitive in some markets.
Thanks to subsidies paying them above market rates and forcing utilities to buy unwanted power at times when they don't need any extra generation at peak market prices or above.
>>69728148
atomic energy doesn't consist of only the half-workable ideas we have now, the benefits of successfully creating distributed, safe, atomic power are massive.
>>69727808
>Right wingers in America are environmentalists
No, they suck big oil and coal jew dick. What drugs are you on?
>>69727833
You mean space solar power? It's probably the best solution along with fusion in the long term.
>>69728002
Can your operators in Holland trade power with Turkey?
Solar works as well as you make it work.
>germany
>sweden
>obama
Biggest tragedy of the century; YET ANOTHER setback to space colonization because they forced solar panels into places where they don't belong. Photovoltaic energy yields amazing gifts, but you don't get any of them when the people in charge are acting against their own nations' prosperity..
>>69728834
>Solar is not just thriving - its blowing up exponentially.
Thanks to government subsidies.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/13/solar-panel-energy-power-company-nevada
http://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2015/10/07/sunedison-is-pulling-out-of-the-uk-after-claiming-the-government-has-eliminated-the-solar-pv-market/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB125193815050081615
This just in, when someone offers you free money to do something stupid, lots of people will do something stupid.
>>69729095
>Solar works as well as you make it work.
But not during peak grid demand.
>>69728158
Sure, a .50 shooting out the right transformer also fucks things up.
>>69729150
>This just in, when someone offers you free money to do something stupid, lots of people will do something stupid.
Solar would work fine if the subsidies never existed. People would put panels exactly where they belong instead of putting them in the worst places possible.
Subsidies are never to enrich an idea or a cause. They are always to enrich a person or a small section of people.
>>69727930
You forgot the part where solar actually causes more deaths than nuclear
>>69728778
BUT THE CHEMICALS FROM FUCKING GASOLINE PLANTS KILL MORE BIRD AND PEOPLE EACH AND EVERY YEAR, I DONT WANNA BE PING PONG DING DONG BOGN LAND OF BULL SHIT BECAUSE SOME FUCKING PIGEON
ITT: Americucks
>>69727790
exactly
unfortunately envirofaggots are all indoctrinated through slurping cum
>>69728742
>Solar Updraft Towers? At a certain scale an SUT pulls condensed air in at night, generating some percent of the power they make during the day. A greenhouse configuration would allow for fresh water condensation at night.
yeah, and how much?
oh that's right, no numbers, just HURRR SAVING DA PLANEEETE
>West Texas wouldn't be covered in wind turbines, otherwise.
without subsidies payed by all? good plan
>A distributed grid including renewables prevents old folks from freezing.
we have a distributed grid already, just they have put surcharges on so we can pay for the green faggots to fellate themselves, whilst the old and poor can't afford heat
GREAT PLAN
>You bongs have a problem every summer with no air conditioning
confirmed for retard, no bongs need aircon in summer
>You have a problem with residential solar? Seriously, WTF? There's nothing wrong with onsite generation.
not if it is cost effective, and not subsidized
>>69728834
sure it is, payed for by everyone else, so you can diddle your arse with a ecofrindly dragon dildo
>>69717322
The U.S doesn't have many places that can acty be zoned properly that would allow for solar power. There are some but most usually don't work, so I don't know why they try.
Literally stick to nuclear hydro and gas.
>>69728762
It's an integrated facility with CCNG, solar thermal and solar panels. The cogeneration is because it's smart to do in the desert with expensive water. I think there's even a small geothermal well. It serves as a research platform between DoE, the local utility and university.
>>69729285
>>69729150
Governments have been offering subsidies to solar for years and it hasn't gone anywhere until 2014. It is recent advances in technology that allowed consumer grade solar power to enter the market.
>when someone offers you free money to do something stupid, lots of people will do something stupid.
well it sure cost a lot to get people to use oil :^)
>>69729570
pic
In typical contrarian style people focus only on the failure cases.
Solar has achieved grid parity.
That means it has started to make economic sense even with zero subsides.
>>69729285
>People would put panels exactly where they belong instead of putting them in the worst places possible.
Like the deserts of Spain, Nevada and California? Either in industrial sized open areas, or on roof tops?
Bottom line solar doesn't work without subsidies and laws requiring utilities to buy power uneconomically.
Even if solar was economical, it needs magic battery tech we simply do not have to work well for human grid use.
Give us magic batteries, (and no not the power wall, we need a vastly different tech than any battery in existence) and then solar just becomes a bad option rather than a terrible one.
Any magic battery tech that can make solar viable, makes even shitty Gen 2 nuclear about 5 times better and would allow all our current thermal plants to be even more cost effective.
>>69729322
Residential solar has a crazy amount of injuries but the death rate is only about 1/200th that of coal. Putting panels on roofs is essentially roofing, which is 6th most dangerous job in the US.
It's not going to stop residential solar, only spur better tools that hopefully spread to the regular roofing industry.
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html
>>69729877
Solar doesnt require "magic" lithium batteries. High volume energy store has already been developed and put into practice, see >>69726932
>>69729409
>China
>Sun
I don't believe it
>>69729516
So someone bolted a solar panel on the roof of a natural gas co-gen plant and called it technology?
I don't think you know what co-gen means. If it wasn't a co-generation plant it wouldn't need any boiler feed water for the steam, saving water at the cost of thermal efficiency.
true story
>someone sells my mom's friend solar panels
>she told my mom to get it too
>she said nope
>mom's friend got mad at her because she refused
>turns out the solar installation is going to cost her 30k on a older home
Solar jew, not even once
>>69729623
I like how it runs from 1950 to 2010, doesn't include any dollar amounts, doesn't include any relation to power generated, and doesn't denote what the "support' actually is.
In short a useless fucking graph that tells us nothing.
>>69729921
nuclear, not coal
>>69717807
We could power a substantial amount of the world's energy needs off of fission alone.
But like >>69720338 said, you can't even mention fission without liberals getting a gold in mental gymnastics.
>>69729877
Current battery tech is fine. It just requires scale.
When the solar / wind electricity cost drops low enough it suddenly starts to make a lot of sense to invest in batteries.
>>69717322
Solar power plants look like Hitler rallies, which are white power plants.
BAN ALTERNATIVE ENERGY
DOWN WITH THE PATRIARCHY
helios one
>>69729921
I'm not too worried about roofers tbqh lad. They're professionals.
>>69729816
>Solar has achieved grid parity.
If you discount installation costs, and have free batteries to collect power for the peak grid demand and nighttime operation.
The cost per unit to manufacture a solar panel has fallen. But the cost to install them hasn't.
It's cheaper today, but it's still not economical.
And it does nothing for your peak grid demand, 5-9PM.
>>69719697
A country is more likely to have wind and sunlight than geothermal or tidal wave potential.
>>69729424
>yeah, and how much?
>oh that's right, no numbers, just HURRR SAVING DA PLANEEETE
Nothing wrong with making money and doing good at the same time. There are many different SUT proposals, champ. Everything from village-sized to the massive kilometer-high one they tried to build in Ausfailia. Each has proposed a slightly different solution.
>without subsidies payed by all?
All electricity generation in the US is subsidized, period. Just because you bongs can't organize your shit doesn't mean we aren't sitting on the motherlode of green energy here in the US.
>confirmed for retard, no bongs need aircon in summer
Except when the temperature goes above 85°.
>not if it is cost effective, and not subsidized
Solar PV is very cost effective but some of that came through the US government subsidizing it's technical and economic maturation.
Take it up with George Bush, he's the one that put solar panels on my old house and it was fucking awesome.
>>69718084
That's because of existing contracts, those will be torn up in bankruptcy.
>>69730080
It's at the same latitude as the Sahara.
>>69730070
Molten salt costs more than lead acid batteries and pumped hydro is limited by geography, and still about 3 times as expensive as natural gas, coal or nuclear.
We don't have a viable storage tech in terms of cost.
>>69730255
Why should a conservative prefer high risk concentrated energy production, instead of distributed autarkic solutions.
>>69730100
Honestly, I'm not sure about the details. Some of the sustainability and architecture students intern there. It's got all those elements but I don't know the exact configuration.
>>69730259
>Current battery tech is fine. It just requires scale.
No it's not. Even when scaled up to industrial levels it's still about 10 times as expensive than grid delivered power.
>>69717322
drive past this piece of shit ever time I drive to/from Vegas
You can see what's really going on when you see the golf course they built right next to it--- right in the middle of the fucking desert.
what the fuck are we gonna do when it soaks up all the suns energy and it runs out
fucking liberal science
>>69717888
>The fuel is free.
Constant maintenance on 170,000 moving mirrors and an entire generation plan is as "free" as your health care, you socialist cunt.
>>69730510
>85°
you've never been to bongland, have you
fucking 85 degrees
I'm bored now, so I will just call you a faggot and go
FFFAAAAAGGGOOOOOT!
>>69730128
Also my mom's friend had to pay the 45k because she didn't understand the contract and the guy who sold it to her was her said the installation was going to be free. Her grandson's close cousin never came by again, he dropped off the map completely and deleted all his social media accounts.
She was going to retire from a career and travel the world. She used to say she wanted to go to Asia and see the sights, walk the great wall, go to japan and see the cherry blossoms. Her old house probably won't last another 30 years neither would she. By the time the panels pay themselves off she will be dead and her grandson will be a senior citizen.
Never trust solar.
>>69730447
Having done some of it while framing houses, I am. Any new tech helps, look at how far nailguns have improved the industry.
>>69717561
source pls?
>>69730510
>All electricity generation in the US is subsidized, period.
And any subsidy is equal to all other subsidies.
Get $0.001 per kilowatt hour of generation? Totally equal to $0.25 per kilowatt hour.
>>69730767
Yeah, we drove by it last summer, it's really bright. It's just California creating the future, it takes a couple of attempts.
>>69730857
>FFFAAAAAGGGOOOOOT!
Finally got rid of the bong.
>>69717322
>solar power plant is more efficient they say
>solar power plant is more cheaper they say
Only if you're mentally retarded. Also, you're probably mentally retarded for believing the retards.
>>69719927
Helios One?
>>69731046
Got numbers for when coal, CCNG and nuclear were being developed? There's nothing wrong with the Feds subsidizing promising technology.
>>69730706
I'd like to see some numbers for that.
Why the fuck aren't you yanks putting more cash into researching new nuclear reactors. You've got so much cash.
>>69731755
LOL radiation
LOL proliferation
> US companies will produce a working fusion reactor before a new generation of fission reactors.
>>69730846
BUT THE FUEL IS FREE. THE FUEL. FUCK YOU MONGOLOID
>>69731755
>'Madmen' must not be allowed to get nuclear material: Obama
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-summit-obama-treaty-idUSKCN0WY52M
>Obama: ISIL 'madmen' would launch nuclear attacks
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/obama-isil-madmen-launch-nuclear-attacks-160401181706905.html
>Nuclear terrorist attack would 'change our world', says Obama
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35947702
I wonder why
>>69720594
Here is what you do, instead of trying to find a place you can put it safely for a million years just build a shack in the desert, put it in there and let some fucked patrol around it until future generations find a way to use the waste as it still has over 80% it's energy left to use in a reactor.
>>69731606
http://www.powertechsystems.eu/home/tech-corner/lithium-ion-vs-lead-acid-cost-analysis/
http://saurorja.org/2011/08/30/lead-acid-is-the-cheapest-battery-conditions-apply/
http://www.batterypoweronline.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Lead-acid-white-paper.pdf
>>69731755
Btw it is nice to complain about renewable subsides when no private company is willing to insure a nuclear plant.
>>69731755
Government panders towards liberals. Liberals hate anything nuclear.
>>69718605
You don't actually know what this power plant is do you? All those things in the picture you see in the op? Those aren't solar panels. Those are mirrors. Hundreds of thousands of mirrors all reflecting sunlight upon centralized towers. Those towers contain pipes full of salt. That salt is then heated by all of that directed sunlight until it becomes molten. Molten fucking salt.
From there I'm only speculating (because I'm in bed right now and my SO is nagging me), but I would assume, based on how most heat generating plants are operated, that this is pumped towards some sort of water facility to generate steam and turn turbines.
So right there, you've got massive potentials for losing money to run an experimental power plant. Maintenance crews for the mirrors, tech crews for the generators, head researchers and engineers for the entire operation, replacing used parts, salt, water, crews to service the crews there (janitors, etc), vehicles, gas, the apparent supplemental natural gas.
Just what I've listed alone here and this project sounds very lofty if not absurd for something that costs some much to make while still being experimental.
>>69732027
The tech was ready for commercial role out in 1997, and it's about 99% of the remaining energy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28reactor%29
>>69717888
>government funded
>efficient
c'mon
>>69732182
>>69732272
>maintaining an array of mirrors is prohibitively expensive
>maintaining a perpetual secure and non-leaking storage facility is cheap and sane
okie dokie
>>69732182
all those move too
hundreds of thousands of moving parts.
>>69732434
>nuclear anything happens in the desert
>nothing happens
For fucks sake m8, we set of tons of thermonuclear bombs off in the cold war, and fusion bombs are a fuckton worse than nuclear waste.
What does this mean?
>>69732041
I don't see numbers anywhere near 10 the cost.
>>69732434
>>maintaining a perpetual secure and non-leaking storage facility is cheap and sane
>okie dokie
See >>69727441 for a picture of the waste fuel from 110 million MWh of production being safely stored waiting to be reprocessed.
>>69717888
I'm not familiar with this solar farm in particular, but presumably, if they're shutting it down, it means that the maintenance costs outweigh the benefits of keeping it up and running.
It's a shame, since this'll reflect badly on the use of solar energy, when in reality it can be a great form of clean energy - just you need to put it in a good location and ensure that it's affordable to keep running.
>>69732055
Finland is trying to boot up a new generation of fission reactors right? Olkiluoto IIRC. But man it's taking them ages to build it.
>>69732434
>>69732434
>we can't build non leaking barrels
>we can't check the barrels regulary for leaks and exchange them
>there will still be a storage left once reactors were build that close the nuclear fuel cycle
I bet you also vote for bernie
>>69726286
We send it into DEEP space
>>69732758
Never order anything French.
>>69732641
>I don't see numbers anywhere near 10 the cost.
76 euro cents per kilowatt hour. Cost of electricity 4-to 8 cents per kilowatt hour.
76 / 10 = 7.6
>>69732586
not just meltdowns or leaks into groundwater (which is currently happening in Oregon, by the way, http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hanford-nuclear-cleanup-problems/ ) but also the threat of terrorism, which is very real, see >>69731994
You'd need a small army to defend it.
>>69732617
jews
>>69732617
It's da joos.
>>69732773
>>we can't build non leaking barrels
Vitrified glass. Only barely a liquid, leak takes longer than humanity has been farming.
>>69732617
solar orientation is important to both
the Kangs used solar rays to elevate the megaliths
>>69732884
>You'd need a small army to defend it.
Or two chain link fences. >>69727441
>>69732884
Thorium.
Also, meltdowns are literally not as bad as you'd believe. Just don't put that plant near water reserves that the public uses.
>>69732884
Those are all false flags and no army will help you defend it if Obama wants to drop the dirty bomb in Boston
>>69733043
I really think chain link fences, electrified or not, can stop a determined individual. We've seen that on the US-Mexico border.
>>69720917
Supposedly this plant is able to bypass this critical flaw through the use of the molten salt. During the evening hours/night time the salt is insulated and still being pumped through the super hot tower. The tower doesn't cool to ambient temperature the moment the sun goes down and can still liquefy the salt for a while. The same goes for the salt. The salt doesn't immediately cool to a solid the moment it leaves the tower. In this case it acts as a form of "battery" in that it's filled with excess heat energy that it continues to bleed off until it reaches ambient temperature.
Now, this all sounds nice and pretty sweet, but apparently somewhere along the line something's not adding up. What we're left with is a lot of money spent and not much to show for it.
>>69733071
Just use a design that has benefited from 50 years of engineering developments.
The AP-1000 is a nice plant for a terrible nuclear technology. When are we going to stop with solid fuel light water reactors?
>>69717322
So does that mean that Obama is
>low energy?
>>69733157
really dont think*
>>69724048
>He thinks ordinary people having a solar panel on their roof isn't a scam!
If they generated free money, why sell them?
>>69732775
>We send it into DEEP space
What does that mean to you?
>>69733287
You sell them for more than you paid for them anon.
>>69717561
This. Canada spends billions each year on green energy yet less than 2% of their energy expenditure comes from renewable sources.
>Billions well spent, we're making a difference
>>69733224
>really dont think*
Well better call the DoE and tell them they don't know how to do their jobs, and that they need a small army to protect nuclear waste that's been sitting in a tennis court sized lot for decades. Because... terrorists.
>>69733398
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Electricity_production_in_Canada.svg
Assuming you are fucking retarded and don't count Hydro, our largest power source, as renewable, that is.
>>69733419
Do you think its possible that the facility was not built with current security risks in mind?
>>69720594
You know how to safely dispose of nuclear waste?
Chuck it down an Olympic diving pool. Two meters or so of water retard even high activity nuclear materials close to background radiation's intensity.
If you want that stuff to be retard safe, just build a slightly deeper pool. Actual nuclear plants use around 8m deep pools. No fancy tech, no expensive engineering, no exotic materials. Just water and something that can hold water. Total safety.
Then again, you could just store the stuff in a slightly rural fenced-off location and need absolutely no safety features whatsoever because the shit doesn't move by itself. It stays where you put it.
>>69732870
What are "transportation costs"?
And isn't Li-ion "current battery tech"?
>>69718501
If they set lower goals they wouldn't have gotten such nice loans. Politicians love high goals they can brag about, and when it fails, the media will cover it up for them.
>>69717807
>>69717322
THIS
don't believe the Jews
they already have this energy technology, they just have not told you yet.
>>69733545
>Do you think its possible that the facility was not built with current security risks in mind?
Do you think that the DoE and the AEC doesn't update requirements?
>>69717322
Kek I wonder how much water needs to be flushed through also.. Because you know, california has plenty of that.
>>69726543
Thorium is just a trash material that happens to turn into uranium in a fissile substrate.
Molten salt reactors are still uranium reactors. The power comes from uranium splitting. Thorium just lowers the amount of uranium needed to keep the thing running. Which is already minuscule because the energy density of fissile nuclear fuel is absurd.
>>69733620
>What are "transportation costs"?
Highly variable based on many factors. But In the end battery tech is wildly more expensive than conventional generation. Further batteries if employed on a grid level still need the exact same transport costs, either because of distributed solar and wind collection in remote locations or due to central battery management.
>And isn't Li-ion "current battery tech"?
Yeah and it's still more expensive than any generation source.
>>69733510
Actually it's still less than 2%
>>69733676
I do, I just expect it to take years and years.
>I've left my door unlocked every day so far havent been robbed yet
uh huh
>>69734122
What the fuck are terrorists going to do ?
Cause a meltdown? I'd say you'd need PhD level education and a really good knowledge of a facility to be able to melt it down before a SEAL team comes knocking.
Amount of terrorists with that knowledge = 0
>>69733602
This. If environmentalists weren't so fucking loud and retarded we could chuck them into Mariana's trench. Or pander to them and store the waste in giant underground pools.
>>69734393
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb
>>69717322
Solar power is the greatest energy resource man currently has access to, the sheer energy output of the sun beggers the mind.
that all said the Technology is not there yet, we cannot currently harness solar power and store that power to the degree that it can substitute for more conventional energy sources.
>Is solar the future
yes
>Is solar currently viable
no
>should the government be pouring tax dollars into what is currently a technological black hole
fuck no
>>69734122
>I do, I just expect it to take years and years.
Or maybe they are actually competent and the risk is bigger in your mind than in reality.
Not even taking into account things like centralized storage. Or that I'm suggesting we consume the waste fuel so we will have no nuclear waste (okay a few grams per GWh/year of production).
>>69732055
Who insures coal burner power plants against environmental damages?
That's right: whoever burns coal is not responsible for deaths and suffering caused.
Nuclear reactor operators are held responsible for all sorts of things that other power generators aren't and that are caused by policy. For example evacuations on perfectly safe radiation levels. We wouldn't have any power insured at all if everything was held to the same standard.
>>69734508
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb
Explain how the terrorists will make a dirty bomb from an active nuclear power plant before the onsite security kills them, the local police does, or national level response teams strike.
>>69734534
Do you fuckers keep up with American international politics at all?
>Obama, leaders urge more action on nuclear security, terror
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/04/02/obama-leaders-urge-more-action-on-nuclear-security-terror.html
