How do you rationalize your support for abortion /pol/?
>>69667780
>birth would kill mother
>child born would be diseased/disabled/retarded/terribly burdening
>child is concieved non-consensually
>>69667780
President Obama, Hillary Clinton, and the Democratic Party support it so I do. I also like to be on the side of women. I don't want any women to die because of unsafe or botched abortions. I don't want women to commit suicide because they feel they have no way out. I love and want to protect women desu.
>>69667780
I'm pro life with some exceptions
just like Raegen
>>69667780
>support for abortion
No, fuck you. Pro-life here.
>>69667780
Because I care more about personal freedom and what's best for society than I do Christian morality. Less unwanted children being born lowers crime rates.
>>69667780
Can it survive outside the womb?
>>69668032
>dressing up killing a form of life as some sort of morally justifyable right
>>69668113
can you survive being dropped off in the middle of a desert?
Ok the flu is it's own being, don't be a murderer, let the flu run its course. You're the host
So on what basis so you claim murder is never justified?
Retard. Its worse to cum than taking an abortion. Its just a big sperm cell until its like 2 years old and then its as smart as a monkey. Hurr durr killing something dumber than a fish is murdeeeeer
>>69668276
"Murder" and "killing" are two different things.
>>69667925
>Supporting it because muh party believes in it
>Anything for Milady tips*
Kill yourself, this is some shit b8
Yeah ok /pol/ babies may be cute to normies for a short while and your Christ memes make you feel warm and fuzzy inside but the fact is there are too many people and if it stops more terrible people from existing I see no downside
>>69667780
Killing perfectly good white babies = bad
Killing retard babies = good
Killing mixed/nigger babies = good
I'm not pro choice, I'm pro abortion
>>69667780
more creatures that eat,shit and drink, raised by a person who doesn't want them and can't support them. Why would you support it? Especially with overpopulation n shit.
I'm not a very moral person, but I am opposed to abortion being legalized.
It just seems wrong. On a gut level it is wrong. Pregnancy is a normal biological process that keeps a species in existence. Using knives and poison to kill a fetus in the womb? That's just... fucking wrong. You don't even have to bring up morality, it's just fucking wrong to attack something so defenseless with knives and poison.
>>69668230 I'm pro choice but this argument makes me want to curb stomp you
Frankly, I think the window should be extended up to include newborns and 1 year olds as well. And that it's the government's choice, not yours.
>Black with 3 kids and no job or dad?
>No, you're not having any more
>I'm taking this one
>Be thankful that one over there is two, or else I'd take that one too
>I'm not worried though, they'll likely get shot trying to steal sneakers from another kid later
it reeks of reddit in here
>>69667780
Guess why
>>69668032
What about the personal freedom of the unborn human?
We have trivialized sex and pregnancy so much that people think killing another human that is yet not born is a basic human, societal right.
>>69667780
Really, it's just so teenage girls don't die in dark alleys with coathangers hanging out of their twats.
>>69668453
Alright man you convinced me, time to go vegan and outlaw the meat industry too
>you have no say when it comes to something inside your own body
ebin
>>69667780
only if you can follow the rule of hunting
you eat what you kill
>>69668127
>strawmanning this hard
I never said abortion was a right. I just said I think it should be legal. The less children born into poverty or with disabilties, the better. Plus, embryos early on in development aren't conscious, and are therefore not persons. Just potential persons. I really don't see an ethical problem with terminating a pregnancy before the embryo becomes conscious.
>>69667920
First Post
>>69668453
>14 year old girl gets raped
>birth will likely kill her
>there's a procedure that can stop her rapist from killing her
>>"no it just seems wrong"
>>69668554
Sorry Ivan but a sack of cells doesn't have the concept of personal freedom
The people who want to kill their own offspring are generally the sort of people who shouldn't be raising kids in the first place.
>>69667780
>Do you want your daughter/sister to born the son of his muslim rapist and raise him with all the efforts it ask ?
>Do you think that making it illegal will prevent girl who want to do it ?
>>69668374
It's not b8 m8. That's my rationale and it cannot be shaken no matter how hard anyone tries including gf, mother, sister, family, "friends", stupid republicunts on tv, Cruz, Trump, etc.
I am a loyal party member who supports the president, the future president, and a woman's right to choose.
>>69667780
Abortion is an unfortunate necessity.
It serves a purpose but it should never be celebrated like the pro-choice sociopaths do.
>>69668617
Neither does a two year old
Blacks and Latinos have abortions at a higher rate than other races, as do the long term unemployed.
>>69667999
>Mother cannot afford another child let alone a birth in an American hospital
>DIY butchered birth
>baby dies
>Mother injured
>Cannot work
>Family dies
>Pro-life
>>69668375
The "terrible" people need to start taking responsibilty for themselves. It will help them be less terrible people. I am not advocating not having sex if you do not intend pregnancy but we have so many ways of preventing pregnancy that it is just completely cold-hearted to rely on abortion.
For the picture to be true, there first needs to be a "someone else" whose body it is.
So long as the growing fetus doesn't have enough brain activity to be possibly considered a person, there's no other person that's affected, and hence it ought to be legal.
>>69668696
Hospitals don't turn down emergencies, they will be billed later and can take years to pay.
The rest is just you trying control variables.
>>69668687
Neither do liberals amirite?
Up until a few months the foetus is just cells replicating - anyone should be allowed an abortion
Second trimester should have some serious consideration
Third trimester reserved only for extreme cases
>>69668718
>The "terrible" people need to start taking responsibilty for themselves.
They can't when they are doomed from day 1 with parents that don't care or are unfit.
>muh science shows it's not conscious and can't feel pain
Well, does science show there is any inherent value, worth or sacredness of conscious or being able to feel pain?
>Uhhhh well no....
Then I guess it doesn't really matter if a women suffers, or if crime sky rockets and you get shanked. It's all just personal appeals.
>W-wait, no I
Can't hear you welfare parasite. I'm too busy organizing death camps for those who leech off of my body(taxed labor), and sociopaths who can't the feel empathy.
>>69668665
I even left the church over their opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage.
Sure it's murder. But life is valued too highly already. The benefits on not having hordes of unwanted niggers running around have already been proven.
>>69668032
>strawmanning this hard
>I never said abortion was a right
"Because I care more about personal freedom and what's best for society"
running around, terminating the by-product of a degenerate and permiscious lifestyle is perfectly ethical while in contrast outlawing the enabler of a degenerate lifestyle and encouraging a return to traditional values is unethical ?
no i don't think so
>>69668554
Embryos can't survive independently of the mother - or think, for that matter. They aren't persons until they can do so, rather just extensions of the mother. Their "death" is not a loss to society because they haven't established a place in it yet.
>>69668747
Also a person must be self sustaining
>>69667920
>>child is concieved non-consensually
I dunno, something always bothered me about this.
The inherent idea of pro-life is that even as a fetus, all human life has value and doesn't deserve to die.
So if the fetus was conceived because of rape, does that mean it's life is inherently worth less than a one conceived with consent?
I feel as hypocritical to be against abortion except in those cases, unless you also believe that a child that was born because of rape has inherently less value as child that was born normally.
>>69668617
So in order to have personal freedom you have to be able to grasp the idea of our self made definiton of personal freedom, which varies from person to person?
My problem with applying personal freedom to abortion is that it is not only about one individual anymmore. Even if the other individual does not have the desire for freedom yet, we actually can not prove this, your decision involves two therefore not only your person.
>>69667780
Because I don't care what happens to a mindless tadpole. I don't think there's a single non-religious argument for why early-term abortion is morally wrong.
>>69668951
That's dumb, no one is truly self-sustaining anymore.
Why is everyone in this thread trying to sugarcoat it? Just say you want less spics and niggers, no one gives a shit.
>>69668559
That's a different issue. Should people eat animals, and if so, which animals are okay to eat? That is a completely different philosophical discussion and has nothing to do with abortion.
>>69668605
>"But what about RAAAAPE?"
Man, this is always the first thing people say when it comes to abortion. You're pro-life? But what about RAAAAPE?
I feel like this is arguing for an exception and not productive. Say for example I posited that speed limits were necessary. It would be pointless to say "Well what about if someone is having a medical emergency and is driving to the hospital. Isn't it okay for them to speed then?"
Even if I agree with this exception it doesn't matter that having the law enforce speed limits is a good thing in general.
>>69668950
>Embryos can't survive independently of the mother
Newborns too.
>>69668939
Forcing people to take responsibility for their unwanted children is hardly an effective way to get them to show up in church.
>>69668970
In the sense that it doesn't have to be physically attached by the belly and completely reliant on someone else, I think not
>>69669042
This ties the ethicalness of abortions to the current state of technological progress and is hence kind of stupid. Not as stupid, but still dumb.
>>69667780
Because fuck niggers and leftist cunts.
>>69668950
So personal freedom, a basic HUMAN even natural right, only applies if you are part of society?
I don't think a zygote or embryo qualifies as a human life.
First trimester abortions are ethical under any circumstances.
I would feel no remorse for wanting my cum dumpster to get rid of it.
That being said, there are some conditions where I would encourage the abortion of the fetus:
-For everybody, the whole rape baby/save the mother/clear birth defects trinity
-For myself, not being able to adequately support the child (too young and broke), or the fact that the mother is not the type of person I want having my kids
I would feel bad about it, but I honestly think this would be for the best.
This is why unprotected sex is baaaaaaad
>>69669037
actually it's a good idea. Unwanted children stress people and that stress makes them more religious. It's kind of like how warfare makes people more religious
>>69669037
its got nothing to do with church in my opinon
it's got a lot to do with the degradation of values in society in general. the media can use sex to sell because the unwanted consequences of which can be fixed in an afternoon.
>>69667780
By being a capitalist.
A person is only worth as much as they produce.
Fetuses don't produce anything therefore they are worthless, removing worthless thing is not a problem.
I don't believe in a soul and believe that abortion is a viable option under the assumption that it causes the least suffering to its environment.
>>69668939
>traditional values
>degeneracy
I believe in secular libertarian democracy, not authoritarian Christian theocracy. As such, I see no reason to impede people's freedom to be "degenerates" relative to Christian morality. I don't think being promiscuous is inherently bad, although being unsafe about it can have negative effects. Certainly using birth control is the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancy, but it fails sometimes, and I'm not one to force a woman to carry an unwanted child to term because of "muh feels."
>>69669237
what are you doing? don't you have some graffiti to clean up and some rats to exterminate?
>>69668876
Except brain activity and pain reception can be measured, dumbass, meaning your obfuscation falls pathetically flat.
though given your flag, I can understand why you may have difficulty grasping this concept.
>>69667780
abortions are the number 1 killer of blacks in america.
Only reason I need.
>>69669084
If in the future we developed the artificial womb, would the more moral choice be abortion, or to have the baby put into the artificial womb ( effectively aborting it from the mother) to be put into foster care etc ?
>>69668853
I strongly believe that ons upbringing has a big influence on them but I also believe in the responsibility of the individual. If you are educated enough to know of abortion you are educated enough of prevention. Feeling entitled to abortion is just another symptom of todays spoiled, sugarcoated, special snowflake society
But condoms suck man
Why cant the jews let us have male contraceptives that doesnt involve mutilation
>>69669003
Yes they can. Someone can adopt a newborn. You can't adopt a still-developing fetus.
>>69669188
Not even literal church though.
You can't force your ethical worldview on people using legal force and expect them to suddenly change their minds.
What you'll just end up with is a bunch more gibs.
Your plan to restore "morality" is just gonna backfire, and it will be you who pays the bills.
>>69669160
>I don't think a zygote or embryo qualifies as a human life.
Why not?
I envision a human life as a line. There's you now, there's you 10 years ago, and there will be you 10 years in the future. We're all on a line heading closer to death.
Whn do you think that this line starts?
>>69667780
Life isn't a binary state, its a continuum - everyone knows this, everyone behaves like this, then everyone pretends its otherwise.
Do you have an ounce of remorse for killing a wasp? Why not? Its alive isn't it? Do you give a thought to the germs you kill from hand sanitizer or mouth wash? Its almost as if you recognize there are degrees of life.
Go take it up with your mass-infanticide God who has a sizable percentage of all fertilized eggs auto-aborted by the female body.
>>69667780
I'm black and I support abortions because it's basically making blacks stronger. If some welfare queen doesn't want a baby help her along. This leaves room for more civilized blacks to take over. Also think about all the women who smoke and drink while pregnant. Is it good for society that they have children?
>>69669159
There are no natural rights. What basis would they have?
>inb4 God
Rights are a legal construct that only apply to legal persons. Or citizens, if you want to go that route.
>>69669416
Please never cum into a tissue again you murderer
okay then how about I peacefuly remove it from my body then
if adoption is okay after 9 months its okay after 4 right?
>>69669317
In that case, you're no longer talking about a specific child, but rather about a systematic choice: Do we want more children than we have parents who want children?
And I'm saying no. In this scenario, if parents want a child, they can go and grow one. There's no point in overproducing.
>>69669341
And, hypothetically, if it can't be adopted then is killing it justified?
>>69668198
I can I'm Fremen
>>69668696
> People being retarded is a valid reason for not enforcing laws
Please kill yourself.
>>69669324
They do man
>>69669160
Or if the child is retarded to the point that they're unlikely to become a functioning member of society. But if parents want to keep a downie I'm not going to stop them.
>>69669248
christian morality and the laws of society is what gives you the freedom to believe what you wish, without consequence.
it did not come from a libertarian democracy but rather a Christian monarchy hundreds of years ago, so in contrast it is a new fad, an inch in the miles of human history.
because the libertarian movement has decided to attack the foundation for its own existence, there must be a counter active action taken, be in the form of Trump or a return to traditional values and restrictions of some so called "freedoms" is just one part of the bigger picture
>>69669449
>Please never cum into a tissue again you murderer
A sperm cell by itself doesn't qualify as a human life. it will never be anything but a sperm cell.
It's only after a sperm cell and an egg cell have fused that a new human being is brought into existence.
You kill millions everytime you masturbate. Women kill everytime they're not pregnant and have periods.
Sanctity of life is bullshit (cf Monthy Python) and all about muhfeels. What matters is actual people with a sense of self, what matters is giving birth to kids who will get a good education and become good citizen.
>>69669416
>when do you think this line starts
When you can measure their brain waves
also, see this
>>69669449
>>69669160
How about you keep it in your pants.
Sex is meant for reproduction. If you have sex but don't want reproduction you are being retarded.
People shouldn't be getting knocked up in the first place, but if they do they aren't doing anyone including the kid any favors by going through with it
>>69669524
you do realize abortion reduced america's nigger epidemic by
30%
>>69669616
>It's only after a sperm cell and an egg cell have fused that a new human being is brought into existence.
no, a human being has a working brain.
until then it's just cells
>>69667780
I support abortion, because dude minorites lmao make the most use of it
I argue against it often because I don't like pro-deathers pretending it isn't murder desu
>>69669449
There is a diference between a car in a garage and a gar going to a destination.
Semen will not develop into a human being on it's own.
Same with ovums.
But when they are connected they start the process of developing into a human. But logic is hard.
>>69669705
You also realize Abortion it the main reason most western nations have a below replacement population?
>>69668999
Anyone can drive fast. Not everyone can perform abortions.
Unless you want the go-to response to be jamming a coathanger up there, there has to be government-sponsored facilities -- regardless of whether it's legal or "illegal with exceptions".
>>69669661
Look, we both know that's not going to happen. Biology and society don't necessarily want the same things, because biology is slooooooow when it comes to changes. Biology still tells us "fuck as often as possible" and while we should encourage people not to listen to it too much, we both know that's realistically just not going to happen. Insticts are strong, because they got us where we are.
Hence, we need ways to make up for all those times instincts fuck society over.
>>69669706
What about people in a clinical state without a working brain?
>>69669747
maybe you should have expanded on your metaphor instead of pulling a "if you dont agree with me ur dumb" card, stupid gypsy
>>69669660
>When you can measure their brain waves
>>69669706
>no, a human being has a working brain.
>until then it's just cells
This seems short-sighted to me. As people knowledgeable in biology we all know that the product of conception WILL reach the milestone of having measurable brain activity. It's a guarantee.
"It's okay because he or she was killed before they had brain activity."
Umm, they obviously were going to continue developing and have brain activity but they were killed by knives and poison.
>>69669826
We usually eventually pull the plug, seeing how there's no point in keeping a brain dead person "alive" through machines. The person is dead, keeping a muscle reflex up and preventing the body from rotting helps no one.
>>69667780
If we make it illegal the niggers will overtake us faster and other social problems will ensue.
>>69669707
You say this like eugenics for blacks is a good thing. If black people ever manage to clean up their gene pool that might be an even bigger problem. Imagine if some black market for genetic engineering or some kind charity focuses on genetically engineering smarter blacks showed up.
>>69669821
In the past, as in around 50 years ago the lack of abortions and the difficulty of getting out of marriage with a child meant that people where more wise with whom they had sex with and when and why. Add to this proper education and there is no problem.
>>69669442
They base on basic needs. The most basic one being living itself.
>you kill germs every day
Not only are you aborting your own kind, no, the person aborting is killing her own genetical offspring. Hardly comparable to washing my hands.
>>69667780
Somebody breaking in your house to steal your tv is human too, but there is no issue with shooting them.
Abortion is the application of the right to one's own body. It doesn't matter whether the fetus has full human rights or not, those rights do not trump its host's right to self-ownership.
>>69669885
But what if it's temporary?
>>69667780
when you eat your scrambled eggs are you eating a chicken or an egg? can you tell if your scrambled egg has been fertilized?
>>69669779
>implying we need these undesirables
These mothers would probably be smoking meth and popping pills if they had kids. Their fathers would either be absent or teaching them to be criminals.
>>69669886
they do anyway though. at this point one white baby is more valuable than 10 niggers.
>>69669873
That something would happen in the future isn't necessarily a good basis for making actions illegal now. I mean, your child would eventually inherit your shit, so you shouldn't be allowed to ruin it today, right? If you do, you're literally robbing your children!
>>69669903
Yeah, nah, they weren't, they just had more kids and shotgun weddings.
>>69669938
Temporary brain death isn't a thing.
>>69669934
>get pregnant because of your own irresponsibility
>WELP ITS OK TO KILL HUMANS NOW CAUSE LIKE I DONT WANT IT IN MUH BODY
ebin leaf
>>69669934
>Abortion is the application of the right to one's own body
You're free to kill yourself, but killing an innocent is murder. Period. Justify away, but killing an unborn human is murder. Period.
Right to life trumps any supposed right to be a whore.
>>69669846
Fine Obesus Diabetuss.
Semen and ovums are like a Petrol and Car sitting in the garage.
When they mix and start becoming a fetus they are like a Car going to a destination.
Birth is the arrival of the car to a destination.
Compernde?
>>69669458
I suppose that's a possibility. But it should only be an option when someone else is willing to adopt the kid and agrees to pay for the costs of keeping the premature baby alive. If no one wsnts the baby, abortion seems preferable. I agree with this anon. >>69669237 Life isn't inherently valuable, so keeping an unwanted premature baby alive just so that it could become a ward of the state would be a waste of resources.
>>69669979
Most women who have abortions are actually smart ones, the ones in the workforce that would just sleep around. Poor people will just have kids for welfare.
>>69668696
She shouldn't have gotten pregnant then. If only there was someway to avoid it.
Hospitals can't turn down emergencies.
>>69670008
Yes they where, having more kids was just a product of the time. And not like we don't need more kids.
>>69670025
what about euthanasia
>>69669934
>Abortion is the application of the right to one's own body.
Hell no it's not lol.
People don't perform abortions on themselves. They pay a third party to perform the procedure. That's actually part of the reason why it's legal, there is a lot of money to be made doing them.
That's also why I feel that it should be illegal. Should people who work in the medical field be allowed to kill healthy fetuses? I don't think so. I don't think that is a good general principle to hold.
>>69670147
> You are free to kill yourself
>>69669487
I would argue yes, at least in a libertarian society. If no private individual or organization (like a church or orphanage) is willing to support it, the state shouldn't have to.
>>69670130
>Yes they where, having more kids was just a product of the time.
Having more kids was the logical consequence of having just as much sex, but with less ways of preventing pregnancies.
>And not like we don't need more kids.
We don't need THAT many. Especially not unwanted ones. We need more wanted children of parents who can and will raise them well. Quality over quantity.
>>69669781
>there has to be government-sponsored facilities
Why does the government need to sponsor it?
My view is that abortion should be used in some rare cases. If you got raped, if the baby is going to be born deformed, if the mother might die during birth etc.
The black and white retarded concept of ''pro-life'' vs ''pro-choice'' is why you fucking morons will never get anywhere on the subject. What is it with you and your black and white thinking? Kill yourselves.
In US the states should decide what their abortions laws are. A president shouldn't have to be interrogated about meaningless non-issues like abortion. Quite frankly I don't care about abortion and it makes me sick watching the faggot media question Donald Trump about abortion when there are actual issues to worry about.
>>69670240
Yes we do need that many. Germany has the lowest population replacement in the world.
Also this will force people to learn maybe in the first 10 years of implementation people will be stupid but they will start to wise up.
>Having just as much sex
Proof please. In the past Relations outside of wedlock where taboo and heavily scrutinized.
>>69669598
I don't care about tradition. I only care about what's best for the country moving forward. And if this traditionalist resurgence tries to take away "rights" (legal privileges) that I'm not willing to lose, then I'm going to use the ones I still have to oppose them. And if that doesn't work, rebellion is always an option, albeit not a very viable one.
>>69670022
Suppose that you invite someone into your house and they start shitting all over the place and breaking your furniture. Do they get to stay as long as they please simply because you invited them in? Does the ownership of that property pass to the guest for the duration of his stay?
If so, can I come to your house?
>>69670025
Right to life does not trump right to property. You cannot invade someone's property and claim that your right to life prohibits them from any attempts to remove you.
>>69670177
Allowing others to work on or modify your property IS exercising your right to property. If I hire a security guard to protect my life, that is fundamentally no different from me defending my life myself.
Aspirin is a very effective birth control.
If a girl doesn't want to become pregnant she just puts one between her knees and holds it there until the manpig leaves.
>>69670391
>Germany has the lowest population replacement in the world.
Are you curious why?
Because we have a housing shortage, low wages, and unemployment, all factors that go against having children, and all factors related to having too fucking many people.
>In the past Relations outside of wedlock where taboo and heavily scrutinized.
... resulting in shotgun weddings. And then lots of sex in marriage.
>>69670101
No birth control has a 100% rate you idiot
>>69668330
By that logic we could kill you right now and it wouldn't be murder.
>>69670452
You can always give the child up for adoption you potato.
Also there is something called liability. Letting people have nothing for being stupid and promiscuous is retarded.
One can easily see that if you had sex you knew there was a risk of getting pregnant so it's your fault and responsability.
>>69670366
If the woman was raped by a Ape tier Dindu, she should get an abortion and her tubes tied so she cannot give birth to anything darker than my semen which is White.
I find abortion a really tricky one.
I don't think anyone would argue that there is a point when a tiny bundle of cells is not a human, but no one can seem to agree at what point it does actually become a person.
Is there any hard and fast evidence at when EVERY fetus becomes an unarguable human being with all the rights a human should have?
>>69668827
Fair enough, although my argument was on the extreme side, it still stands. If a mother has a child she cannot afford, her life quality might very will be reduced to poverty, and lead to death. This is not just a supposition, this does happen.
>>69670605
No because it's a question of ethics.
The best description is when the mother's DNA and the fathers DNA have mixed, to form a new cell-cluster.
>>69669524
What the hell are you on about? Abortion is legal
>>69670452
If you invited someone into your house with permission to mess it up then it would be wrong to shoot them. With the exception of rape every unwanted pregnancy results from the decision to engage in the naturally procreative act of sexual intercourse.
>>69670605
I do happen to have evidence you are a cuck. U dumb fuck.
>>69670654
And then she should give it up for adoption.
>>69670524
No because of Feminism and the fact that you have way to many people that don't belong in the workforce.
>Resulting into shotgun weddings, And then lot's of sex in marriage
No. A lot of marriages where planed by the parents or at least required their approval.
And there is a limit to how many times a woman can get pregnant during a marriage and also how many times they are willing. In most nations 2-3 kids where the norm in the past not 8 as you make it out to be.
>>69669905
Why should people have a right to their basic needs being met? Why should we support people who are incapable of earning their keep? Out of the goodness of our hearts? Please.
>>69670690
Are you retarded?
The whole reason we are arguing is because Trump said that if abortion was to be illegal people would get punished.
>>69667780
1. It's a form of population control.
2. It stops degenerates from raising poorly children when they're not ready to be responsible.
3. I don't know them so I don't give a fuck.
4. They're risking their lives and body to have their baby yanked from their womb, so if they die in the process it will be their own fault.
I will discourage anyone I know from getting an abortion, and will frown upon the idea of getting an abortion, but I don't care if some random cunt who can't get off the cock carousal does it. It's their lives.
Abortion should stay legal, and we should encourage people to not gt them just like how we encourage people not to turn to drugs (because of morals). But we shouldn't go as far as to enforce laws that restrict the woman's decision over her own body.
>>69670266
I guess endorsed would have been a better word. And because if they don't officially endorse it, then those clinics would be unlawful.
To parallel your earlier analogy
Ambulance = endorsed clinic
speeding to the hospital yourself = coathangers
("clinic" also doesn't have to mean a place dedicated to abortions, but any hospital or clinic that can also perform abortions)
>>69670689
Yes I know it's ethics, but my ethics are determined by what it is that's being removed.
If it's a bundle of indeterminate, unassigned cells, then it's not a person and not murder.
>>69670569
>You can always wait until the guy decides to stop shitting on your carpet and leave your house
That people should get some punishment for being promiscuous is a value judgment that you have yet to justify.
pick one
>abortion illegal: more precious white babies, but also more nigger and rapefugee babies
>abortion legal: less white babies, but also less nigger and rapefugee babies
id pick illegal, simply because that regardless of whether it is legal or paid for, the colored will outbreed the white. so saving white babies is better than killing black babies.
>>69670548
There's always a risk of pregnancy with vaginal intercourse. If you don't like that risk there's oral, anal, and mutual masturbation.
>>69667780
Religious people, degenerates, people on welfare and anti abortionists should not be allowed to reproduce; therefore abort, abort...
>fetii are not humans
> zero support for life in fetii
Niggers and Muslims : I'm pro abortion
Whites : abortion made illegal in all cases , except for race-mixing , which will cover rapes by niggers and Muslims.
>>69670746
>No because of Feminism and the fact that you have way to many people that don't belong in the workforce.
That still wouldn't solve the housing shortage, you know? Germany is, for its population, rather small. Nearly all of it is developed to some degree. We don't have the room for another couple million people. The country shrunk with every war but the population kept going up, eventually you gotta stop.
Abortion is a human sacrifice ritual -- the most powerful known to exist. It was invented by eugenics operatives within the occultic elite to cury Satan's favor while gaining his protection of their warmaking, usury, currency manipulation, and control over the minds of men.
Why is abortion the most powerful form of ritual human sacrifice? Because it entails the most defenseless victims conceivable (the unborn) being murdered by the very persons most duty-bound to love and protect them from harm -- their own mothers, and medical doctors who've sworn oaths to their gods to do no harm.
These ritual murders which society misnames abortions are, furthermore, carried out in a nonchalant and routinized fashion exclusively to facilitate hedonistic apathy, laziness, and convenience; symbolically placing ten seconds of vaginal pleasure above the value of a human lifetime's worth of a living, breathing human being's consciousness.
In short, Satan loves abortion because it symbolizes evil within cruelty within evil. It proffers that a few seconds of vaginal contractions mean more than human life itself, and it does this using the greatest symbols of love and compassion (mothers and doctors), satanically inverted into spiritually numbed, unfeeling executioners.
So the next time you see a western woman screeching about her abortion rights on the steps of some state capitol, look into her empty eyes and know that you're seeing more than a simple murderer. Look into her eyes and know that you're seeing a demon, the very definition of evil. And know that the steady stream of death she inflicts on the unborn is what powers the elite's satanic karma.
>>69670864
Any white chick who aborts the baby was either probably raped or is a slut who takes dick but isn't willing to commit to a family when the time comes. The baby would've probably been white trash as well, which is just as bad as any "rapefugee."
>>69670706
We aren't talking about shooting them. Unfortunately, in-vitro gestation does not yet exist, and the developing fetus is simply not viable ex-utero. Removing it necessarily entails killing it, which, while regrettable, must be permitted if the right to one's own body is to hold.
>>69670864
More precious white trash babies, maybe.
>>69670933
everyone would prefer this, but you couldnt really say this to the public.
>>69670850
If you crash your car into your own garage the state should not pay to fix it up.
If you lost your phone you should not steal another.
You are arguing that Murder should be correct because aparently an unborn child is violating your propriety.
Which is stupid as not even in the US that is legal. In the US they have stand your ground laws, when you defend yourself from attack not give you right to shoot trespassers on sight.
>>69670989
LaVeyan Satanism is pretty interesting and practical, anon. Far more practical than Christianity, at least. Theological Satanism is just as dumb, though.
>>69670883
There's also a risk of dying in a car crash driving to work. Do people that die in car accidents deserve it? Should they have not driven to work if they didn't want to die?
>>69670741
Do you want to know a secret? More kids are given for adoption than are taken into households. This creates an emotional burden on the mother, the kid, and also reduces their quality of life, with a similar outcome.
>>69670935
Then just stop having kids. Look at Japan, they don't have abortion legal like most of Europe and have a lot less of them.
One can argue Japan's problems with child birth are more cultural and situational. But you can still do the same.
>>69671076
>LaVayan satanism is pretty interesting
Gotta be 18 to be on this website kiddo, perhaps you'll be more suited to Reddit.
>>69667780
I am pro choice in cases of rape or genetic diseases, but it should be forbidden if those are not the case.
It makes sex an act without consequences that is against nature and embraces degenerative behavior. It's like eating as much as you can and when you get fat you go to the doctor and get it removed.
Since everyone else typed a little book on it I will add my own opinion to it as well.
We should enforce and reward the use of Abortions on blacks, while brutally punishing White Women who use the pill. But in the case of where said white woman uses abortion on a unborn nigglet, she should be allowed to receive the abortion and also have her entire womb removed of any remaining Nigger sperm cells.
But on a more practical scale, abortion should only be legalized if presidency is under Trumps control. Donald Trump will make Liberal Removal by Abortion great again. If the Presidents role is under Hillary Clintons role, we could expect a dangerous dip in Aryan population due to cuckhold women aborting what remains of "Opressive Wormy Cells".
>>69671076
You know LaVeyan Satanism was founded by the Jew Anton Lavey AKA Howard Stanton Levy, right?
>>69671039
>you are arguing that murder should be correct
We don't have to accept the premise that it's murder, and you've given no case to compel us to.
>If you crash your car into your own garage the state should not pay to fix it up
Sure, but we're not arguing the ethics of the state subsidizing abortion, unless you're trying to make a different point, in which case, wut?
>If you lost your phone you should not steal another
Wut?
>>69671139
If a person drives their car into another person then they deserve it. If they got hit by somebody else then it wasn't their fault.
Either way it's a shitty analogy.
>>69671221
>it's like eating as much as you can and when you get fat you go to the doctor and get it removed.
That's legal as well though, and it is people who have hereditary issues with fat.
>>69671039
>the state should not pay to fix it up.
Correct. Neither should it pay for abortions, or any medical procedure.
The fetus IS violating your property rights (and not just any property, but your own body). The fact that it is both unaware of this, and unwilling and unable to stop it doesn't change the violation. It does not have the right to inhabit your body, it is afforded that privilege so long as you permit it to.
>>69671195
And this is somehow an argument for justifying murder?
>>69671197
> Look at Japan, they don't have abortion legal like most of Europe and have a lot less of them.
Fucking what.
They have more abortions per capita than we do.
>>69667780
What's your first memory? that was the moment you clicked on as a human being. Before that you didn't exist.
>>69667780
If a child is retarded it becomes a lifelong burden on parents, bringing nothing to society and never breeding anyway. What you get on the way out is likely another school shooter.
Fatherless children are much more likely to lead the life of crime than those who were raised by a full family.
Quantity doesn't matter much in today's society. Low crime rates are in part the result of contraception and abortion. It's much better to have one fully functioning, beneficial member of society with a college degree than 2-3 children who barely were fed, and didn't get enough attention and education, unless the society is in a desperate need of manpower.
Human fetus can only be aborted early in pregnancy. The brain only starts forming later in the fourth week. Before this it's literally a no-brainer to abort a fetus.
You don't call caviar "fish", you don't call an egg "a chicken", you don't call a seed "a fruit".
Finally, USSR and now Russia has had legal abortions since forever. So I assume the only reason for stifling of abortion in US is the religious fundamentalism.
>>69671221
>It makes sex an act without consequences that is against nature and embraces degenerative behavior.
I dunno about you faggot but I love casual sex
>>69671364
my first memory was as a three year old.
>>69671313
>We don't have to accept the premise that it's murder, and you've given no case to compel us to.
In that case I don't have to accept the premise that shooting and killing someone is murder, and can campaign for it to be legalized.
>>69671330
You invited it into your body in the first place. It's not violating anyone's rights.
>>69667780
WHAT IF, you could get one abortion of convenience, and afterwards you were sterilized.
Like the whole, "threat to health" thing stand IMO, If its a choice between moms life and baby's life moms has a right to choose her own.
But how about you can abort a rape or fucked up kid or purely as a matter of not wanting it, but after its done were gonna sterilize you permanently. That is the price of choosing to end another human life, you dont get to do it twice and it costs you the ability to ahve further kids.
>>69668413
My nigga
>>69671313
You have given me no case to compel me it's not murder, or should not be ilegal.
But here are some things to think about.
In most nations it is illegal to destroy or remove eggs of endangered bird species. It can get you jailed or a hefty fine even if they are on your propriety.
In most civilized nation the Natality rate is sub replacement level, almost like Endangered Birds.
This is my main argument for why abortion should be illegal unless we get into the murder argument.
>>69670792
My bad, I assumed your reading comprehension was adequate to understand my argument.
>How do you rationalize your support for abortion /pol/?
By saying "your support" the OP is implying our support for abortion. Abortion is the medical procedure when one removes a a human foetus before birth. This person >>69667999 claims they do not support abortion, but "life". I make the argument that being against abortion actually leads to death in the end, hence me pointing out the irony. This is true whether abortion is legal or not, which is the reason why your comments are misplaced.
Please let me know if you need any clarifications on what I just said, but make a little effort to read through a couple of times first.
>>69671429
Congratulations on surviving.
>>69671323
>Dying in a car accident can be an accident
>Getting pregnant having sex can be an accident
Somehow the person getting pregnant deserves it though. Explain this.
>>69671433
You could argue that but would be wrong on simple semantic grounds. To clarify, the reason we don't have to accept the premise that abortion is murder is because we don't have to accept the premise that a fetus is a person.
>>69671330
Are you telling me you consider yourself propriety?
Also have a look at this: >>69671461
>>69671447
Of course. But as soon as that invitation is revoked (which is necessarily the case with abortion), there is a violation.
>>69667780
Abortion?
Can't you see the bigger picture, cucks?
Diversity, feminism, marxism, It's not a conspiracy, it's true. I'm a liberal and I agree with it. Didn't Hitler himself say, give me the youth and the reich will maintain itself? Something like that, well, that's what we are doing. The youth and the education/workforce institutions all but a few, belong to us.
We have all but won, breaking down national borders through immigration is the last step before global Communism.
How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history?
>>69671578
If it was a Niggers dick you rode, you need tog et an Abortion pronto also your tubes tied or cleaned if thats even possible.
>>69671524
Because it was entirely their actions that led to them getting pregnant. If you get raped the pregnancy is not your fault. If somebody crashes their car into you it is not your fault. If you have consensual sex that leads to a pregnancy it is your fault. If you drive your car into a wall it is your fault.
>>69671567
Your body is your own property, yes. For your body to be someone else's property means you are a literal slave.
As for your endangered bird argument, that rests on the assumption that those laws are just and necessary. You must first justify this before building an argument on it. Simply appealing to the status quo is not an argument.
>>69671450
This. People say "people having abortions are just likely to raise criminals anyway"? I agree. But rather than stabbing the nigger baby with a needle every time the sow gets knocked up, we cut off the flow at the source.
>>69671338
By forcing someone to have a baby, you doom not only one person, but two or more to a miserable life. Also in order to murder, you need to kill a person. Cells in the process of building a person are not a person. So yes it is absolutely justified. I'm sure you will agree with me if this happened to you.
>>69670989
>Eugenics is evil
Stopped reading there, liberal faggot
When does a fetus become a baby?
>>69671764
At birth, by definition.
>>69671764
When it's born, according to accepted medical terminology.
>>69671211
I'm actually over 18 and avoid reddit because the voting system is cancer.
>>69671309
Yeah, but wasn't he just ethnically Jewish? I don't like the Jewish religion or culture, but having Jewish heritage isn't automatically bad.
>>69671578
Well, I guess it just comes down to whether you believe someone has the right to revoke their invitation at that point. I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
>>69670933
This man gets it
>>69671681
Nice way to avoid the argument.
The main reason Endangered Birds are protected is because they are Endangered so can't protect themselves and because they add value to the nation's wildlife as most endangered or protected species are usually national symbols. Their symbolic, cultural and biological value is worth more to a nation than the discomfort it may provide to a minority of it's citizens, so through consensus they decide they must be protected.
The same can be said about an unborn child. The mother may not like it, may not even want to support it. But after it's birth it can be move away from the mother and it can help society, as who knows what said child would be capable of doing in the future.
>>69671679
Believe it or not, it happens that dies in car accidents without getting hit by another car. Example: slippery road, flat tire, wildlife, etc.
The intent is to get to work, with a risk of dying in an accident.
When you have sex with birth control, the intent is to have sex, with the risk of getting pregnant.
If you say that getting pregnant this way is not an accident, then you imply that any person that performs an action with any risk whatsoever deserves whatever is coming to them, all of the time. Do you agree with this?
>>69671703
>I'm sure you will agree with me if this happened to you.
Don't project unto me you faggot.
>but two or more to a miserable life.
So in other words, the quality of life determines who gets to live and who doesn't?
Who decides the definition of "above miserable life"?
>Cells in the process of building a person are not a person.
Cells are always in the process of building a person dickwad, when do you define the cells to become a person?
>>69671895
If you don't believe someone can revoke their invitation to be in their property, then can you invite me to your place?
>>69667780
I think about all the people I will never get to meet because women don't have kids on every opportunity after they become fertile. I don't consider a fetus a person yet, it's only a potential person.
Also, someone that has the heart to abort a child probably lack the heart to raise one. I know adoption is an option, and I encourage it, but I still think that abortion should be an option.
>>69671764
When does it become a baby? At birth.
When does it become a life? In my completely subjective opinion, when there's brain activity, which generally towards the beginning of the second trimester.
>>69671868
>an ethnic Jew is not a Jew
Reddit plz go
>>69671338
In a secular state, murder is defined by legal code, not religion. If the does not define a fetus as a person, then getting an abortion isn't murder. The future of the free world is in secular democracy, not theocracy.
what is wrong with you niggers?
there are two points to this shitty talk: morality and practicality.
is it morally just to abort a baby and/or a fetus? absolutely not. if one tries to contest this you have to be stupid.
should it be allowed in THEORY? no, it should not. we need healthy white babies.
should it be allowed in ACTUALITY? yes. as much as i dislike it, there are one too many nigger babies (or white trash for that matter)
what many and most of you pro-abortion idiots seem to get wrong, is arguing that it is morally acceptable, which it is not. regardless of the intentions, and if the baby is actually conscious and able to think, it is still immoral.
>>69671703
If you can't take care of the child, don't get pregnant in the first place.
It's that fucking easy. If you were stupid, then take responsibility, and make a better future for your child.
Be a fucking adult already, your choices will have consequences, don't chicken out of it and try to justify your stupid ass, instead of that make your and your child's life better.
>>69671429
mine was similarly. If you ask me post abortions should be possible up to two to three years old. Mothers choice only, of course :)
>All these people actively resisting degeneracy
>Not riding the tiger until it can run no more, then dismounting and smashing its skull in with tradition and superior morality
>>69671946
They may not deserve it, but they are responsible for it.
Also, the fundamental purpose of sex is to produce offspring. The fundamental purpose of a car is not to crash and burn.
>>69668747
>what is pre-natal memory
>>69672037
Yes, but we weren't arguing from a legal standpoint.
>>69672049
Simple solution, ban abortion for white women then, and mandatory for minorities.
>>69671944
That's not a way to avoid the argument, because there was no argument made.
The underlying assumption behind your new argument is that the measure of whether something is "good" is whether it is socially beneficial. This is extremely vague and inherently unquantifiable (what is good for society? who decides this?), and I challenge you to justify this new assertion.
>>69671461
First off, Romania, the word you're looking for is property, not propriety.
>You have given me no case to compel me it's not murder
I didn't attempt to. I was simply pointing out that you were begging the question.
As a counterpoint to your endangered bird argument, I'd like to point out that we're not endangered or birds; and while it's true that there is negative native population growth in developed nations, promoting the proliferation of the lower class is not healthy for the economy, national relevance, or the 'national character.'
>>69672037
What about maltreatment of animals?
Humans are part of the Animal Kingdom, and though a human do to circumstance might not be a person it is still human and an animal so it has rights.
You are not allowed to make a dog suffer for what ever reason or even kill one without valid reason and that can get you fined or even jailed.
>child is unwanted
>never receives love from his or her parents
>abortion would be murder and immoral
>better to have it and make it live a life unfulfilled and emotionally damaged
sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind
>>69672049
>is it morally just to abort a baby and/or a fetus? absolutely not. if one tries to contest this you have to be stupid.
During the early stages of pregnancy it's not unmoral to do it either, it's amoral. It doesn't involve morality, unless your personal morality involves there being as many children as possible. But that's just your thing.
>>69672111
Not a thing before you have sufficient brain activity. An inactive brain cannot form memories. Dumbfuck.
>>69672138
yes, but this is not a dream world or a dystopian novel. doing so is not possible in this reality.
>>69672029
Just like not all blacks are niggers. People have the free will to reject the failings of their culture, Jews included. Culture is social, not genetic.
>>69667780
I'm more concerned about men's rights to save their child from abortion or reject their roles as a father.
I'm not a woman, so I don't know everything that goes through a woman's mind when she wants an abortion.
But personally, I'm more pro-life.
Abortion only in cases of rape/incest/some other weird shit.
>>69672123
Why should religious morality have any bearing in public policy?
>>69672161
Stop referring to existing laws in order to justify the subject at hand. All laws must be justified on their own merits, merely pointing to their existence is not an argument for a tangentially-related law's existence.
>>69672168
Let's go to orphanages and kill the children because they're obviously going to have a shitty life anyways.
>>69667780
Don't like kids
>>69667780
I'm pro-abortion in the case of:
>rape
>significant danger to the mother's life
>child is so genetically fucked that it would never life anything close to a normal life
Beyond that I think people should take responsibility for their actions. It doesn't really bother me if people do get an abortion, but I would not personally support it.
>>69672186
You could get BLM to support it, if liberals reject it they will be seen as racist.
>>69671955
I see I've hit a string here since you are getting a little defensive. Some clarifications:
Projection is a defense mechanism in which people "defend themselves against their own unpleasant impulses by denying their existence while attributing them to others". This is not an unpleasant impulse to me, I fully admit that I agree with myself. However I'm certain now that you would agree with me since you didn't even dare deny it on an Somalian rice counting forum.
It doesn't determine who gets to live and who doesn't, the point is that the mother has a choice to make. By prohibiting abortion, you are effectively stripping the mother of that choice, and you are the person deciding that whoever will suffer from the birth doesn't matter: the baby needs to be born.
Okay buddy, so if I cut my finger off I've committed murder? Those cells were building me, weren't they?
>>69667780
Eugenics. Euthanasia.
>>69667780
It kills lots of niggers
>>69672300
your ID is almost sweden, opinion discarded
>>69672049
Really, in a perfect world, it would be great to have abortion against the law and treat it like murder. If you kill any form of human life after birth it's seen as a crime. You won't say a plant isn't alive until it fully sprouts, so saying it for a human being that's growing through the natural process doesn't make sense either. But there are too many things with humans to factor: Mentally ill people who get raped and then end up pregnant, with the kid having to be raised by the parents on top of the mentally ill person.
Irresponsible parents who would raise the kid wrong or would be too poor to properly raise them. Then the dumb people who breed like rabbits (like the many inbred Arabs who moved into Yurop and are going to out-breed the native Europeans in a few decades). Have to consider that there's just stupid people who shouldn't have kids until they grow up, but also won't let it get through their thick heads that if they won't want kids, they should be going the extra mile to either not have sex or use every form of protection possible. Then there's of course the chance of the baby randomly being born with a deficiency.
With plants, the plant would simply die if it has a deficiency, but humans have emotions and grow attachments. Some people would raise a child even if it's a brain-dead sack (as many of us have seen with those pictures of those bug-eyed kids who lack functioning brains, and as we'll see with the next generation having zika virus babies).
Also
>muh white babies
There are retarded nigger-tier whites as well, and they're not some small minority of whites. Stop acting like white babies should be a priority over any others. A degenerate is a degenerate, no matter the race.
>>69672161
You can't just kill a dog for no reason, but what about an insect? We do not give protections to creatures simply on the basis that they're animals.
And before you ask, yes, I think first trimester zygotes deserve about as many rights as a housefly.
Who cares seriously? The 'baby" can't feel any pain, so why does it matter? People die all the time and nobody cares. The "baby" isn't even a person yet, so it isn't murder.
>>69672231
Who's talking about religion?
You make it sound like the law is some undisputable fact, I'd rather challenge that.
>>69672331
Anon, I...
>>69672324
Kills a lot of Whites too. Niggers also aren't in any danger of going extinct by 2100.
>>69672161
Why should animals have rights? It's not in human interest to protect the rights of animals aside from protecting our own ecosystem and keeping abused dogs from mauling people. It boils down to "muh feels."
>>69671972
If somebody says
>I need a room to have my heart operated on
and you reply
>I have an empty room you can use that!
and then halfway through the surgery you revoke the invitation to your house and shove them out the door, killing the patient, is that fine to you?
>>69672149
The lower class are not the ones doing most abortions, or at least here because they can't afford it.
>>69672146
Fine.
Something is good for society because it bring monetary, cultural, spiritual(maybe this depends on the nation), value to a society without being detrimental to society.
Not the most hard argument to make.
And I can say that in the worst case a Child from a mother who doesn't want him and taken by the state and never adopted can still get a career as a Solider and bring value to society by defending it from outside threats.
>>69668617
You are literally just a sack of cells
>>69672384
>Why should animals have rights?
They do not.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in abortions on early stages, neither practically nor morally. By raising the unwanted child you doom one person to a miserable life at best, and three at worst (including the child). Of course it was your fucking mistake you didn't use contraception, but just one mistake is not the reason for trashing your and someone's else life. You also have to be retarded to think that a bunch of cells in process of forming something akin to a human is human and has consciousness/thoughts. If it does, it does it to the same degree as your hair, sperm, nails or just regular cells in your body.
>>69672340
>A degenerate is a degenerate, no matter the race.
of course, but niggers more often than not fail to deviate from the path, while white (and asians) have a slightly easier way at it.
also, plants neither have nor can develope a consciousness as we understand it. to add to this, it is not an animal, and to add to that, it is not our species.
>>69672315
>N-no you're the one who's being defensive!
Fuck off, you're the one trying to say I'll agree with you, when I clearly won't.
>you are effectively stripping the mother of that choice
The mother had a choice, and that was to not have sex.
>Okay buddy, so if I cut my finger off I've committed murder? Those cells were building me, weren't they?
Spare me your false equivalences and try and stay on topic.
>>69672381
I keep pushing to ban abortions for white babies but I keep getting death threats
>>69672354
The law isn't indisputable, it's arbitrary and mutable, clearly. But you called another anon out on using arguments to justify "murder." I'm arguing that abortion isn't murder unless we're using a specific religious / moral definition of murder instead of the legal one.
