Capitalism is dead edition.
>>69461353
Better dead than red.
Gas yourself, kike puppet.
>>69461353
>>69461353
Explain
>>69461353
>red and black
are you pro-gun or pro gun-control? serious question
>>69461688
Pro-gun
When will you leftists stop ruining it for us centrists?
>>69461744
good for you, you are actually being consistent
What's your opinion on the immigration crisis? Should the west close borders or open them and let anyone who wants in? If you believe on the latter, what's to stop every single non-westerner from going to Europe?
>>69461353
>anarcho-communism
Basically the most retarded ideology out there, along with anarcho-capitalism.
>>69461353
Hello comrade.
>>69462546
Those two are but the least rotten slices of the anarchist pie. Anarcho-primitivism and anarcho-feminism are even more retarded.
>>69462546
How does central planning work?
>>69461353
don't ever say that pure communism never happened
AIDS is free, classless, and easy to redistribute
>>69461688
>>69462995
Serious question...
Why do all the leftists in the USSA want to disarm everyone then?
>>69463145
because they're faggots who haven't read politics and history, and don't participate in any political/workers activities.
>>69462995
adding also
>>69462777
Anarchists are against all forms of illegitimate hierarchy. The OP flag is anarcho-syndicalism, so it would be made up of democratic, local worker councils, who would form syndicates to represent a certain geographical location (to facilitate the sharing of natural resources for production)
This is not your home.
Go away
>>69461353
>>69463553
that wouldn't work in cities at all.
>>69461353
Fuck off.
Proud anarchy-primitivst here
>>69463145
The level of state worshiping propaganda in your country is off the fucking scale (on the left and right).
>>69461353
Fuck off.
Proud anarcha-feminist here.
LARPing: the thread
>>69463711
The emphasis is on limit of hierarchical forms of coercion on one's life. The emphasis of anarcho-syndicalism is democratizing the workplace and strengthening forms of worker organization. Eventually growing strong enough to challenge state power.
You can say it doesn't work, but it does. See. Spanish civil war, Mondragon, Kibbutz
>>69463802
Absolute cancer.
>>69461445
Hahahahahaha ebin
>>69463906
>anarcho-feminism
>>69464198
hahahhahahahahaha
get a load of the dumb shit faggot cuck
he thinks his fairy tale bull shit would work
hahahahahahaahahhahah what a fucking idiot!
>>69463710
Ebin meme le lol XDDD
>checks flag
>>69464427
http://www.mondragon-corporation.com/eng/
eat a dick you state worshiping cuck
>>69461353
Are u a filthy commie?
>>69464399
It's Anarcha-feminism. not anarcho.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcha-feminism
>>69461353
Saged
>>69464551
>mondragon-corporation.com
nice try beaver bitch
how about you fuck off and go prep your bull moose you paste eating retard
>>69464755
It's a multi-industry, co-op that exports globally. essentially acting as a city state. Sorry they don't teach you to read down in that cesspool you call a nation
>>69461353
>Go corporate
>Corporation covers your living expenses
>Corporation covers your travel expenses
>Get corporate car if your place demands frequent travel
>Get reeducation with corporation expenses if market changes and is needed
>Corporation profits that are not distributed to the workers are invested mainly to the corporations evolvement
>Corporation is leaded by a closed-style party (politburo)
When were you when you realised than free market slowly but surely reinvents communism through corporatism?
>>69464685
Your pic says anarcho. Did you change it to anarcha so as to feminize it? There is nothing inherently feminist about opposing relationships of power; that's some 3rd wave big umbrella nonsense.
>>69461353
Die.
>>69461445
First post,
Best post
>>69465001
pierre thinks his little bullshit "country" counts for ANYTHING
hahahahahahahahaha keep 'em coming you gas huffing inbred moron
Whites are not dying out fast enough...does anyone have any new strategies to eradicate them? Is promoting white genocide on college campuses qualify as hate speech or is it legal?
>>69461445
>Better dead than red.
>Gas yourself, kike puppet.
There's a good reason Hitler called himself a "National Socialist" and not a "National Capitalist".
Pic related.
>>69463368
Thanks for letting me know. I'm not a leftist, but I'm genuinely curious about your positions. The gun thing took my by surprise.
>>69463553
Thank you as well kind anon for the answer. I am a bit curious as to how a price mechanism would work in anarcho-syndicalism.
>>69463711
>>69463553
Yeah also....how the fuck would that work without boarders or population control??
> Oh dear, our population just spiked massively altering the needs of the local economy...better get that loan from mister soros and make space for some multi-national corporation outlet/service provider.
> ANTIFA are useful idiots and all the more aggravating by how counter-productive they are to their own "cause."
The closest thing you are going to get is a system of semi-autarky and we need counter-development to achieve this as its all so MASSIVELY dependent on centralized mega-corps.
>>69465528
> price mechanism
Why would you use money as a feedback mechanism for resource allocation?
>>69465269
I think it's pretty clear only one of us actually gives a shit about their state.
We've got the lord of the cucks running ours and you've got a puppet of private power. Shit on canada all you'd like
Faggots how does it feel to be provwn wrong all the time?
>>69462734
is there anarcho-libertianizm?
>>69465661
Is that Melissa Click?
>>69463553
>antifa
ahahahaha
>>69463553
sounds pretty gay
>>69463906
feminism is only one half of the sphere
it represents female self determination (*at any expense and by any means necessary, which =/= equality)
feminism is not universal
feminism is not without strong feminine bias
pure anarchy is egalitarian and as free of agendas and special interests as possible - feminism would only dilute a formula which already guarantees true freedom
>>69465528
There's a lot of debate in the community about market vs money free economies. Personally I see it as the only system in which a truly free market could function without oligarchs and states manipulating it constantly.
>>69465628
>borders aren't imaginary lines
Im curious and completely ignorant about this...If someone is anti capitalist do they have a problem with owning/using stuff that you have to buy with money? How do they exist? Shelter/food etc. do they use the Internet at all then?
>>69465860
>and object with to labor invested cannot be valued
....
>tfw my father and mother came here with nothing
>both ended up being rich as fuck
>all the guys my father came with ended up being rich as fuck too
B-B-BUT CAPITALISMS NOT WORKING
>>69466324
>markets didn't exist before 1700
>>69462436
you are retarded ,he is a leftists of course he is pro open borders
>>69465860
ancom memes are the worst
way too technical, boring walls of text that only ancoms would laugh at, way too black and white in presentation (never wrong lisa simpson arguing with idiot homer)
it's deliciously ironic that ancaps put the memes of production to far more efficient use
>>69465860
Marx sure had strong words about labour for a man who never worked and lived at the expense of his capitalist friend.
t. Don't do what I do do as I say.
>>69466668
>Communist states
>Open borders
Pick one
>>69465860
Austrian school would make sense if people weren't so fucking valueless, short-term-ist, individualist and cucked. National socialism gave people a reason to say NO to the miss use of their environment and wages were proportional to need and work put in. None of it works without a reason to withhold, i.e the PRESERVATION of something deemed of value beyond capital. Shame the Nazis were so expansionist.
>>69466505
So in modern society, how does someone who claims to be anti capitalist survive? Is this just academic bullshit then?
>>69465154
>ipmlying the company cant fire you
>implying you cant buy your car
>implying you cant pay for your holidays
>implying you are not free to find another job
>>69466844
>Austrian school
>Not inherently individualist
>National Socialism
>Anything to do with Austrian school
Go home, you're confused.
>>69466834
>left party
>want closed borders
pick one
also commie states was so shit that nobady wanted to go there
>>69461353
LUL.
Fuck you piece of shit AnCom.
By the fucking way, we could both live in peace if you pieces of shit AnComs wouldn't advocate for violence.
Have fun running through the streets boycotting like those BLM negroes overthrowing the bourgeoisie.
>>69463553
>establish no hierarchies in society
>run a completely free, open society
>Chinese/Russians come in 2 months later and take all your land on a breeze, after all its not claimed by any legitimate entity and there're no armed forces to protect it
So, /leftypol/, how to we collect the European states into a power rivaling the US, Russian and Chinese capitalistic systems and where do we place the gulags into which we throw the rest of /pol/?
>>69466951
It is still transitional
>>69467040
>also commie states was so shit that nobady wanted to go there
No shit
What refugee would want to come here if he would be prosecuted for his religion
>>69466917
Can a slave not argue that slavery is wrong? The concept of capitalism you're talking about doesn't really exist, for example, we're having this discussion over the internet. The internet was developed in the state sector, not private, so should ancaps not be allowed to use the internet or cell phones?
I'm actually advocating a functional free market economy, just one without bullshit power relations and wage/debt slavery.
>>69466971
Welcome reddit
>>69461445
underrated
>>69463145
Because Americans are a bunch of fucking bootlickers.
AnCom logic:
BOSS IZ OPPRESIVVE!!
NO HIERARCHIES,, DIRECT DEMOCRACY. NO MONEY FREE SHIT LOLZZZ. WORK TO FULLFILL NEEDS OF SOCIETY LMAO ROFL XDD
IF YOU DONT LIKE IT YOU'RE FREE TO LEAVE HAHAHA
Newsflash motherfucker, if you don't like your boss, you're free to leave.
Yeah yeah, sure. But how does someone who claims to be anti capitalist function in modern society? Dumpster diving for food I can see, and being homeless isn't uncommon. Just trying to understand how they practice what they preach? Or do they? I'm guessing they don't but dunno?
>>69467655
>Yeah yeah, sure. But how does someone who claims to be anti capitalist function in modern society?
Same as you.
Get a job, pay bills, pay taxes.
>>69467076
Yeah, you're not wrong, that's what the Spanish civil war was about. The west, the USSR, and the Germany all came together to aid the fascist government in Spain to kill the revolution in it's cradle
Marx said that if the revolution was to be successful it must take place in the most industrialized, powerful nation. That would be the only way to practically overcome it.
>>69466844
>Austrian school would make sense if people weren't so fucking valueless
Well that's just your opinion because value is subjective.
Obligatory. I'd argue that NS is the closest thing to a traditionalist country that we can accomplish these days. Some people disagree on the extent that it socializes to ensure the health and education of its citizens, but who can argue with harnessing capitalism's power while maintaining a solid environmental, racial, and nationalist standard?
Question (not necessarily about economics, but interesting nonetheless): is freedom a meme? It would seem that no matter what, humans are slaves, with the choice to be slaves to virtue or to our desires or some middle ground. Is this idea wrong? Ideally, people would come to virtue on their own terms through rational thought, but can the correct conditions for such a phenomenon be achieved?
>>69463145
They're cowardly and scared and don't want to take responsibility for their own safety. Also, they see the gang violence problem as a gun problem.
>>69467835
>The west, the USSR, and the Germany all came together to aid the fascist government in Spain to kill the revolution in it's cradle
The URSS sent troops to aid the revolution dick face.
The problem is that anarchists and communist can't get along and it always ends up with commies shooting people and anarchist wasting time voting over the same shit all the time.
>>69461353
true freedom incoming
>>69463802
Then get the fuck off your computer.
>The problem is that anarchists and communist can't get along
RIP Makhno
>>69463906
A world where female hypergamous instincts can run wild and where 5% of men will form harems as in primitive times. Yeah, that'll last. Monogamy and patriarchy are the bedrock of society.
>>69467835
"Yeah, you're not wrong, that's what the Spanish civil war was about. The west, the USSR, and the Germany all came together to aid the fascist government in Spain to kill the revolution in it's cradle"
Falling for this Anarchist meme. The Anarchists sucked and the Marxists did most of the job. The Anarchists are glorified beyond belief and the reason why the fascists won.
>tfw when we get into anarchy, anachists are the first to be eliminated
>anarcho-fascism
>>69468245
Er...
>>69467076
>Chinese/Russians come in 2 months later and take all your land on a breeze, after all its not claimed by any legitimate entity
the revolution will only be succesful if it's worldwide, otherwise it ends up in Marxist/leninist states (USSR)
>and there're no armed forces to protect it
what is people's militia
>>69463553
>local worker councils, who would form syndicates to represent a certain geographical location (to facilitate the sharing of natural resources for production)
So they would form a government with rules employers have to follow? Would that not destroy competition? It doesn't matter if workers get more money if there's nothing to buy due to shoddy production. What you're essentially saying is that you want central planning done by workers. Central planning does not work. Farmers do not make good rule makers.
>>69468197
t. i know nothing about anarchism, not even it's correct name.
>>69467825
I'm not anti capitalism or anything, And I don't agree with most of what the US government does. I havnt paid taxes since late 90s, have worked for myself growing weed through my 20-30s and now almost 40 I live a comfortable existence retired.
Was just curious if an anti capitalist actually put their beliefs into action.
>>69468658
>>69468245
>anarcho-facism
>Anarchy
>Facism
>working together
GET OUT REDDIT REEEEEEEE
>>69468468
He has a point though. Why do you think the USSR turned so centralized and war-focused?
Was there no real threat? Everything Stalin did was necessary to preserve the USSR from a Capitalist invasion.
There can be no Communist anarchy before Capitalism is crushed, and the ones that came the closest in doing so (at a large scale) is Lenin, Stalin and Mao. Anarchists have accomplished nothing.
Hell, modern Anarchists, they do not even organize people. They attract stoners that like to call themselves Anarchists so that their stoner life give them purpose.
First Socialism, then Communism. Anarchists wants to jump to Communism and that is impossible.
>>69468658
end of dump
>>69468468
>implying you would have a strong military in anarcho-communism
Atleast Anarcho-capitalists can fucking argue this point. An-coms have nothing.
>>69468468
How are you going to fucking do it? I'm a capitalist, I own a business, are you going to kill me although I have never hurt anyone? Is it going to be violent?
Also, Marx was talking about this revolution 200 years ago
>muh worldwide revolution
Well, fucking where?
>>69468569
>Was just curious if an anti capitalist actually put their beliefs into action.
The only way to exercise anti-Capitalist ideals in a Capitalist society is to live off grid.
I know a few people who have bought boats to avoid a life chasing dollars just to live.
The existence of this thread is an abomination, get sprayed you communist niggerlovers.
>>69468530
That's their dumbass idea of a "Direct Denocracy"
>>69466218
Thanks for the insight. I would agree with you a truly free market can only exist in the absence of a state.
Coming from my AnCap perspective, it seems to me the Anarchists of all stripes in a stateless society could coexist as separate factions and interact through trade.
Regardless thanks for talking, I am genuinely curious about left wing arguments and it's hard to find people who will articulate them without hurling insults.
>>69468815
>There can be no Communist anarchy before Capitalism is crushed, and the ones that came the closest in doing so (at a large scale) is Lenin, Stalin and Mao. Anarchists have accomplished nothing.
The funny thins is that as soon as you implement anarchy, capitalism will just rise again because it's the more effective. Anarcho-communists don't get economics at all, they just repeat memes about le workers
>>69468928
>Dinocracy
>>69468866
>communist niggerlovers.
I didn't see any Communist Soviet cities overrun by niggers.
I think you'll find the nigger problem is caused by Neoliberal "free market" Capitalism.
>>69461445
FPBP.
KILL A COMMIE FOR MOMMY!!!!!
>>69468833
No, the masses are simply going to seize your company. Guessing that you are skilled in your profession (unless you own a bank/insurance company etc. aka non-productive business), you would probably get a leading position if you accept that you are now a worker and not an exploiter.
>>69461353
If capitalism dies, the empire dies.
If people can't capitalize and work their way up anymore, like that is dead, then we get new powers that be.
It's happened over and over and over again. You try to take away everyone's hopes and dreams, and the people get new leaders.
And the beat goes on. Capitalism will never be dead. If people don't have any possibility on capitalizing on something to better their future, all hope is lost.
Peace.
>>69469123
>nigger problem is caused by Neoliberal "free market" Capitalism.
You mean the welfare state.
>>69469385
Unfortunaely, Neoliberal Capitalism doesn't offer a better future for anyone except those at the very top (who already have it good).
>>69469123
>Be Soviet Europe
>Open borders to refugees, your class bros
>"So were do we pray for Allah"
>Send all of them to "Politcal Reformation Camps" for LIFE
Muh dick
>>69469052
A planned economy is by far more effective. Anarcho-Syndicalists speaks of a planned economy of some sort (not sure how they are going to manage that though).
Don't get me wrong, Capitalism with imperialism where one country or a part of the world can exploit workers in other parts of the world is more effective for the imperialist countries than a planned economy. I think most people do not support exploitation though.
>>69469468
>You mean the welfare state.
No, I mean "the free market".
For the free market to funtion requires the free movement of products, capital and PEOPLE.
This is why the West is overrun by immigrants.
The more you know, the less of a cunt you are...
>>69463145
check out the spanish revolution-- that might change your views on the left wanting to 'unarm' everyone.
>>69469468
>You mean the welfare state.
>Implying Soviets gave anything for free
>Implying you were allowed not to work
kek
>>69469468
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IZCcUBBCd0
>>69463802
Follow your dreams kid, while posting on this board through the Internet, your mortal enemy.
Kek. Kids are adorable with their ideals and what not.
>>69468840
Yeah, I was wondering if this was happening in any meaningful way with large groups of people, or in particular how anyone identifying as anti capitalist in this thread could describe how they were putting their belief to action.
Me personally, in a distilled explanation I didn't agree with USA going to war back in IRAQ so I stopped paying taxes, decided growing weed would be a good source of off the grid income and have accumulated enough money to live the rest of my life comfortably without working another day. Just I time too what with weed getting legalized.
![51N3iQRGxeL._OU01_AC_UL320_SR214,320_[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8VdCO98.jpg "51N3iQRGxeL._OU01_AC_UL320_SR214,320_[1].jpg")
>>69469545
>capitalism is a neoliberal idea
Read a fucking book good lord. The food on your plate does not come from benevolent politicians, or the whims of a collective, it comes from the farmer who wants to sell his produce for profit. Capitalism has offered the greatest amount of prosperity for the greatest amount of people. If you want to stop big money in politics then you need to reduce the size of government, not make it bigger. If government is too weak to go corrupt, the rich will have nothing to seize.
>>69469200
>leading position as a worker
Well, I won't fucking work then. Shit's free yo, I'd rather get high all day and play video games and drive around in my new Bentley.
>>69465513
>Implying Mises was not based.
>>69469992
If you are able to contribute, but won't - you get nothing.
>>69469934
>or in particular how anyone identifying as anti capitalist in this thread could describe how they were putting their belief to action.
That's only really possible if there's revolution... and, does a revolution seem likely to you?
In the meantime anti-Capitalists are in the same boat as everyone else; working shit jobs for shit money and no meaningful future.
>>69461353
ANARCHY NOW! MY BITCH MOM WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL ME NOT TO EAT ICE CREAM FOR DINNER AFTER THE REVOLUTION!!!
>>69469725
>hur dur I don't know economics
The reason people resort to outsourcing or H1B Visas (which are essentially a government subsidy, which goes against libertarianism) is because government intervention in the form regulations, minimum wages, and government assistance make it impossible to compete. Do you think outsourcing would be viable if the government did not interfere and make running a domestic business almost impossible?
>>69468815
>and the ones that came the closest in doing so (at a large scale) is Lenin, Stalin and Mao
of course, because communism is much easier than anarchism. grab a small good army and take control of the state, then rule an authoritarian state. Piece of cake.
Anarchism is almost utopian because it needs people to realise they must free themselves, which in modern society it's really hard.
>>69468827
>>implying you would have a strong military in anarcho-communism
again, wordwide. If it's people's militia of x country against all states (Spanish civil war) of course you can't win. But if it's people's militia of every country against it's state it's significantly easier.
>>69468833
Of course it will be violent, we'll seize your business, not kill you. And more important, we'll try to pursuade you another way of life is possible, more fair and just for everyone.
>>69466668
you are wrong lad, I'm an anarchist and I'm anti-open borders in the current situation.
just because I believe that anarchy would be better as a whole, that doesn't mean that I would agree with certain aspects of it being applied in the current system is right. that's what retarded """""leftists""""" believe (syriza, pseudo-anarchists etc), and tbf I hate them faggots more than golden dawn
>>69470069
>Mises
>Based
Pick one.
>>69470095
Wait a minute. If private property doesn't exist how will you not give me anything? ID's to know who's working? Will you just deny my entry to a publicly owned house through some identification process? What if I work like once every year/half a year and there are people who agree that I'm contributing to society?
>>69469936
oh look, a picture of him who is adored yet note read.
>>69470335
I picked both, sorry faggot.
>>69470069
Austrian economics is a complete joke but that's a pretty based quote.
>>69470305
>intervention and government assistance make it impossible to compete
If your Government didn't "assist", you personally would be dead through starvation. Just like all the other niggers.
>>69470320
>But if it's people's militia of every country against it's state it's significantly easier.
>Muh people's militia
Since you have to pay your workers huge wages because le workrs unite fite da ebil rich people, how could a people's militia be effective at all if they have to pay their soldiers ridiculous wages on top of having to buy the weapons, equipment and etc? Artificially high wages mean that in order to stir at least a minimum profit, you would have to sell your produce a lot higher to make up the money spent on labor.
>>69470554
Are you now claiming fascists aren't "Socialists"?
heh
>>69470320
>of course, because communism is much easier than anarchism. grab a small good army and take control of the state, then rule an authoritarian state. Piece of cake.
You mean Socialism? You now that the goal of Socialism is to remove the state and basically have the Anarchism you speak of?
To go from a Capitalist world to an Anarchist world is impossible. From a Socialist to Anarchist/Communist on the other hand, is much easier.
>>69469545
Pure capitalism.
If you cannot work your way up from the bottom anymore, there is no hope left.
Might as well revolt.
History repeats itself.
>>69470596
Please tell me how politicians work their farms
>>69470571
>Complete Joke.
>>69465860
IT'S A FUCKING LEAF
>>69470674
No, the opposite.
>>69470731
Do you seriously think illegal immigrants get welfare?
You do know what the term "illegal" means?
>>69461353
>/leftypol/
Get back to le Infinite-chan
>>69470833
>circular reasoning at its finest.
>>69465513
You do realize that Jews are behind almost all political ideologies, right? Jews were instrumental in molding both libertarian and marxist/socialist ideologies. The only true European political ideology would be Monarchical classical liberalism, like what Britain had during the 19th and early 20th century before you all went full retard.
>>69470434
Imagine yourself if you lived in a pre-historical tribe. You are healthy and everyone expects you to go hunting to feed the tribe. You refuse and do nothing. 1. They either beat you until you contribute or/and 2. You get no food.
In a modern Communist society you would probably get just enough to live though. Food and shelter, nothing more.
>>69461353
>anarcho-communists
Keep posting on a privately owned image board using a computer created by a private company.
If, after seeing the failure of all systems that go against the free market, you still don't realize that pure Capitalism is the answer, you should probably get tested, because you most likely are mentally retarded.
>>69470975
>In a modern Communist society you would probably get just enough to live though. Food and shelter, nothing more.
I thought the whole point of communism was to have abundance and luxury, eventually automating everything.
>posts faggoty anarcho-syndicalist flag
Fuck off, you retarded price of shit. I bet you just read Kropotkin's Conquest of Bread and now think you have all the solutions to global capitalism. If you pulled Chomsky's Jewish cock out of your mouth for a second and looked at reality, you'd realize that leftist ideology is literally mental retardation.
>inb4 muh capitalism is exploitative
>inb4 muh property is theft
Take your ridiculous, idealistic, ineffectual ideology and shove it up your ass. Then kill yourself, you degenerate faggot kike-enabler.
>>69461353
There is no point preaching to these reactionary tools. They'd rather blame the Jews than their actual foes, capitalism and private property.
>>69470646
>have to pay
pay what? They won't fight for money. And people's militia come from workers. Think outside the box for a minute: Money. Gone.
See here for more info, just an example if you're so interested how people's militia work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPl_Y3Qdb7Y
>>69470678
what do you consider USSR and like states to be, socialist or communist? Either way, none of these wanted to reach anarchism, their leaders were satisfied playing dictators of their countries.
>>69470961
Ask yourself this question: what is the one ideology you're not allowed to criticize in the US.
Pic Related.
>>69471152
When we get that far, yes - but we are not there yet.
>>69468815
Dude, I'm not trying to be a dick, but the USSR was formed through violent annexation and subversion. I highly recommend making philosophical or historical arguments about how the USSR was liberating workers or something instead of pretending that the USSR was not centralized and militarized in order to violently increase its territory.
I was once a leftist, an anarcho Communist to be exact. Then I started working, got a job, and realized that leftists don't know what the hell they're talking about.
Sure is spooky around here.
>>69467596
spast
>>69471306
Neither. Both criticize the US. Libertarians love to criticize how statist we have become and the commies obviously hate how capitalist we are.
Ah fuck it guys. This revolution is being predicted for 200 years now so it has to happen at some point right? Right?
>RIGHT?
And when it does (which it totally will) we'll just protect our private property and give the "revolutionaries" some free helicopter rides. (By the way I meant killing them out of self defense)
Have fun running through the street boycotting with your cute little signs and the flags that you could buy because of capitalism. I'm sure people are going to give a fuck.
Kek.
>>69470248
I don't guess so, though it's pretty interesting watching the whole Trump "anti establishment" movement.
I'm not super smart or anything but was able to game the system with little effort and sure I pay property and sales tax but not state or federal...maybe not the best compromise considering the amount of stress and actions i had to take/dealt with concerning getting caught. but overall I feel better about not supporting the govt.
>>69467596
>what is wage slavery
>hurr durr everyone deserves the same shit we're all equal race isn't real akumbaya egalitarianism
Hierarchy is the natural state of life; some people are simply better and more deserving than the rest.
Get your literal pleb ideology out of here.
>>69470867
They fucking do though you retard. Speak for your own country. Illegal immigrants can get public housing, medicaid, public schooling, and food stamps through their children.
>/pol/ labeling every lefty as cuck
>meanwhile they approve getting buttfucked by some old rich jew by working theirs asses to enrich them while getting underpayed
And yeah, shitty Trump is one of them old rich faggots
>>69471218
USSR was a righteous attempt. It failed because of various reasons; WW2, rats in the party and external threats. When Stalin died, Socialism died in the USSR.
It still served as a counter to Capitalism in free form as we are seeing today though. Welfare-state? Was it a generous gift from Capitalism? Not at all - it was a necessary response to Soviet Socialism.
What have happened post 1989? Welfare-states building down, rapid privatization, stagnant wage-growth (in the west).
Anarchism is just another form of Communism. Communism is the goal of any Socialist society. Did you know that Stalin wanted to remove the Communist party from power in the USSR? And make the USSR more of an technocratic socialist union with elections? His opponents in the party and WW2 made that impossible though.
“What would happen if capital succeeded in smashing the Republic of Soviets? There would set in an era of the blackest reaction in all the capitalist and colonial countries, the working class and the oppressed peoples would be seized by the throat, the positions of international communism would be lost.” ~ J. V. STALIN
And how right he was...
>>69471844
You're free use all resources at your disposable to acquire as much food as you like, as long as you don't steal from others.
>>69471844
>Eat or die, its not a choice its a threat!
End body slavery now!
>>69469748
Love the memes in this thread about commies not wanting to disarm people. Helping a useful, not immediately threatening faction to weaken your biggest rivals says nothing about your actual policies once in power, whether you're communist, capitalist, whatever.
Leftists are inherently degenerate, a true affront to civilized society. They're also edgy faggots who think they're so smart because they alone comprehend capitalism and propose an absolute shit alternative backed by a lot of hippie bullshit.
>>69471844
So what's the alternative? Not work and get food? Look you have a skill and the skill is worth something, we use currency for value. So if your skill is highly demanded, it's worth more (i.e. Programmers). What? Do you just wanna sit there, do nothing and get free shit? Thought so.
By the way, your idea sound so much better, pic related.
>>69471844
A contradiction in terms. If you're getting compensated for your work at a market price you are not a slave. If you aren't getting paid enough for your skills you are free to seek employment elsewhere.
>>69471218
I don't think you understand how labor works. Firearms required for your militia would cost money or resources.
>>69471406
It was Polish communists that ruled Poland. Hungarian communists that ruled Hungary. Ukrainian communists that ruled Ukraine.
The USSR was centralized and militarized because of external threats and the need of rapid industrialization. Read anything of what Lenin and Stalin wrote.
You know what Putin disliked about Lenin? He gave lesser regions too much power.
>>69471844
>wage slavery
>real
pic related
>>69472081
I don't disagree, but every communist/socialist state ended in an authoritarian state, that shows something. Mostly in what way we must strive to achieve our goal.
>>69472269
/thread
>>69471790
> it's pretty interesting watching the whole Trump "anti establishment" movement.
Trump is the establishment, he's part of the economic elite. He pretends to be outside the system to fool hicks into supporting him.
>>69471895
>Hierarchy is the natural state of life
An "appeal to nature" fallacy straight off the bat... well done.
>>69471895
Yeah faggot, but who are the "deserving" ones? Some shitty bussinessman who just knows how to make money by ruining the others? Some shitty junkie popstar who just had some luck?
You capitalist fucks think that driving some expensive car and living in a big house means being a ubermansch, half of them are just some spoiled brats that owe everything to their fathers or even plain luck
>>69471939
If the State is aware of your existence, you can be deported.
Illegal immigrants work outside the system, they don't get welfare at all.
>>69472081
The most hilarious part is how the USSR allowed black market capitalists in their state because their people were dying of famine. Central planning does not work.
>>69472081
Communism is a great idea on paper, as are many -isms, because they fail to account for greed.
If no one ever wanted more for themselves, lots of -isms are wonderful. Unfortunately, that's not how life works.
If you can get more for yourself, you're going to do just that. It's the human condition.
If no one cares anymore because someone else takes care of absolutely everything, no one wants to do anything. There's no motivation. Someone else will take care of it.
The power will always belong to the people and the greediest will always rise to the top, so they can get a little more for themselves.
It's the way people work.
>>69472497
Because of external threat, and because we have yet to see a Socialist revolution in an already progressive democratic state.
I am pretty sure Cuba is more democratic than say Haiti or other Capitalist banana-republics.
Soviet became way more democratic after the revolution. Same with China. North-Korea was actually not the lunatic state it is today always either.
>>69472745
>Being this fucking retarded
You do not live in the US. You do not know what you are talking about. A lot of our illegal immigrants do benefit from the programs I have listed. The problem is that the state does not deport them. I think the fact that illegals actually pay some state taxes shows that the government knows of their existance.
>>69472295
The armed conflict will not last long. In every past revolutionary experience the rebels used guns which were taken from the army/police forces. If it takes longer than that it will fail, since the army has bombs, airplanes and tanks.
We're not talking about a lengthy war conflict. See how the bolsheviks seized Moscow, or to bring it in a more anarchist theme, how EZLN managed to gain autonomy. Even Kurds in Turkey are a notable example.
https://youtu.be/Uc89WTEh-jE
>>69472719
People don't just become fucking rich out of nowhere. Someone just happens to be more intelligent. And some happen to be less intelligent WHICH STILL GET TO LIE AND EAT, they do work that more intelligent people don't prefer.
>muh exploitation
HOW? WHERE? YOU WORK - YOU GET MONEY!
Fucking classist.
>>69472982
I'm talking about an anarcho-communist society defending itself from foreign invaders, not overthrowing a government.
>>69472325
Those communists were allied with, supported by, fought alongside (in revolutions), and ultimately became part of the USSR when they had the power to achieve their goal. Don't you see what I'm saying?
>>69472618
>>69472719
T-the revolution will happen a-any year now, guys!
>>69473011
communists literally believe that getting paid a salary is exploitative because muh full value of product
>>69472719
>muh exploitation
Where? You work - you get paid.
Some people just happen to be more fitting in another form of labour than someone else.
If everyone can be a successful business man or have "luck" and become a pop singer then go ahead. Go do it. All you communists are lower class people or just students, and there's nothing wrong with that, but if you had any kind of experience in the real world you wouldn't believe such bullshit propaganda.
>hurr durr the bourgeois is oppressing me
>inb4 not everyone can be a successful business man because Jewish conspiracy
kys
Go buy a flag and help the Capitalists out.
Use your internet more.
>>69473311
They also don't realize that demanding higher wages comes in a larger barrier of entry for employment and price hikes. They literally do not understand economics.
>>69472904
>. A lot of our illegal immigrants do benefit from the programs I have listed.
The immigrants on welfare are known to US immigration; they are being "processed". This is legal proceedure that takes time.
> The problem is that the state does not deport them
People are indeed deported from the US.
>I think the fact that illegals actually pay some state taxes shows
Once an illegal immigrant makes their presence known to authorities, they are indeed liable to pay tax (if they're permitted to work).
>>69473423
Sorry for double post.
Lags.
Still, I brought up some other points so have fun not comprehending reason.
>>69463688
This isn't your home either, it's a political board so both sides can be discussed.
>>69473426
None of what you've said is true.
Modest rises in minimum wage do not inflate prices; the extra demand offsets any loss in profits.
Econ 102
>>69461353
NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER
>>69473499
>The immigrants on welfare are known to US immigration; they are being "processed". This is legal proceedure that takes time.
>hur dur I don't know how law works
If you commit improper entry you have committed a crime and should be deported. We do not have amnesty, yet at least. The point is that illegals DO receive government assistance. You cannot have open borders and a welfare state.
>People are indeed deported from the US.
The only illegals that get deported are illegals who commit crimes after improper entry.
>>69473677
Kill yourself.
>>69473677
Broken windows fallacy. Econ 101.
>>69472747
You know that people was dying of famine in the US in the 30s too? :)
I find that hilarious, that people can starve to death in an already industrialized country.
Central planning did work, and the USSR became the 2. industrial power, catching up on Western Europe from being 70-100 years behind. Even with the effects of WW2.
Time to wake up, sheep.
>>69472775
That is why you need people like Stalin, that killed 70% of the leadership because they were indeed greedy bastards. There are many Socialist theories on how to get around that problem, that a group of politicians centre all power around them and themselves becoming a ruling class over the workers.
Like I said earlier, Stalin wanted to remove the party from power. He wanted a technocratic state with "free" western-styled elections.
People are not naturally individualists, we are communitarian by nature. The religion of Capitalism strives to tell you otherwise though.
Sure, some people are lazy and some people are greedy. But most if not all are communitarian by nature. Capitalism is against human nature. How come people that live in tribal societies not suffer from depression at the scale people living in capitalist societies?
"If no one cares anymore because someone else takes care of absolutely everything, no one wants to do anything. There's no motivation. Someone else will take care of it."
This is Capitalist brainwashing. You know what humans seek most of all? Social status. Today money = social status. In an ideal society, contribution would = social status (as it do in tribal societies).
Jew shill, to the gas chamber with you.
Thoughts on physiocracy? Is it compatible with 21st century's dynamics?
>>69472528
Yeah, it's all very interesting watching it from the point if view of not actually caring about the political issues. I don't personally have any interest telling someone else how to live their life etc. but I've tuned into watching MSM again these last few months to much amusement at how they go about manufacturing opinion. It's entertaining in a way that normally watching the MSM and their standard left/right bias has been sorta fucked up and they are scrambling from all angles to stop Trump....and I think it's fair to say they are trying to stop what trump represents. i wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that Trump isnt what he claims to be but again I don't really care about what that means one way or the other.
Just entertaining.
>>69473677
Come on dude. Prices should be regulated by the market and not one group that's completely biased and consists to 99.99% out of poor students who never read any economics besides
>muh Marx
Dude, come on.
>2016
>beliving in anything other than competitive capitalism
>>69461353
How can anyone above the age of 18 seriously believe anarchism is a good system?
>>69473894
The great depression was caused by government though, not the free market.
>>69473202
They became a part of the USSR because it is natural for Communists to unite. The USSR turned bad, yes - but never worse than the US.
Yes, the USSR was too centralized. Yes, they did not follow the Stalinist line (post-Stalin). It is a lie that that the members of the USSR did not want to be a part of the union - not before later (post-Stalin). See Soviet Invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm
>>69473423
>>69473011
It's not that, the fucking problem is that some bussinessman earns like 100 times what other people earn, maybe even scientists or shit. The disparity is way too high, that's not meritocracy, it's just a society where money stopped being a mean but a purpose. I'm not a commie, I just believe in a stronger presence of the state with heavy proportional taxations and the redistributions of the wealth by facilities that would help the society to progres.. That's a civilized society, not some savage jungle where the objective is earning more and more by destroying the competition
>>69474461
The USSR was so successful they don't even exist today. Your revisionist history is astounding.
>>69474721
If I earn a million dollars an hour why should I care if someone earns a billion an hour? Where do you fags get off calling other people greedy?
>>69473166
It's either every society is anarcho-communist, or none.
>>69474369
>>69461353
nice flag
>>69473835
It's a fact, rises in minimum wage do not increase unemployment:
http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/157-07.pdf
>>69473869
>doesn't understand Bastiat
>>69475127
You can find black and white pictures of bearded men that followed any ideology
>>69474193
>Prices should be regulated by the market and not one group
The free market is a myth. You cannot let a myth regulate wages.
>>69474721
What about all the unpaid labour of the business man? He educated himself to achieve such knowledge, he opened the business, he provides people with work ffs. Such people deserve the money they are getting.
>earning like 100 times more - even than scientists
[citation fucking needed]
There are people in the working class who earn more than some business owners, like programmers, their skill is highly demanded, they get lots of money, don't hear them complaining that much, it's always he lower class just being pissed.
>>69461353
Yes comrade.
>>69474439
The great depression happened because of the nature of Capitalism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8rt8RGjCM (very simplified version of the Marxist theory).
>>69461445
fpbp
>>69475305
Well that was his argument. He could choose a better one.
>How can anyone above the age of 18 seriously believe anarchism is a good system?
>>69474789
It was successful until it's end at various things. It was a doomed but righteous attempt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-uveZQwmEw&list=PLW3gtlvtXsemLJSrsNLLF7q0ipDR7i4Et&index=139
>>69475397
>free market is a myth
>Provides no evidence
Seriously m8.
>inb4 "read this book by *insert leftist here* or "check this source out *insert leftist article here*
>>69474461
I wasn't saying whether it was good or bad. I was correcting your bullshit lie that the USSR was militaristic only to defend itself from invasion. It was created due to diligent, often violent (war) effort.
>>69463688
faggots of the west unite
>>69475864
>Provides no evidence
All markets are subject to the information problem, to varying degrees. Those who control information, controls the market.
>>69475211
Yes it does. Why would a business hire more if employees cost more? A rise in the cost of labor results in a decrease of demand for labor. You're also not considering that minimum wages discriminate against low skilled workers. If businesses have to pay higher wages they will not employ low skilled workers, which results in the poor staying poor and unemployment. This is shown clearly in the average age pf minimum wage workers increasing, because businesses won't hire unskilled people like teenagers
Lmao every communist I know is literally an austistic memer from 4chan. holy heck this thread is great. I bet you all share marxist memes on facebook too and think youre a hoot.
Nobody cares about the workers revolution. Communism was a failed experiment, now get over it.
>>69475289
What do I not understand
>>69475995
Ok, let's get our definitions right here
A free market is a system in which the prices for goods and services are set freely by consent between vendors and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority.
>FREE FROM ANY INTERVENTION
>>69470248
Revolutionary union organizers improve things for themselves and their fellow workers in the here and now, while also building the structure that can potentially take over when we grow powerful enough to challenge the bosses and the bourgeois state.
>>69476054
It's apparent you didn't read the paper's conclusion...
>Yes it does. Why would a business hire more if employees cost more?
An increase in demand necessitates the hiring of more employees.
>>69476158
>free from any intervention...
Show me market free from any intervention.
>>69475650
That's a lie. It was caused by the federal reserve. They did not do their job. Recessions are natural but not to this extent or degree. Most recessions before then were incredibly short
>>69476158
Are Germans always this dumb?
>>69471543
nimmst mir das wort aus dem munde genosse
>>69476344
Right now it doesn't exist, what's your fucking point right now? How is free market a myth? It's a fucking theory that can be applied.
Holy fuck.
>hur dur *insert idea/theory here* is a myth because it doesn't exist
>>69476467
> It was caused by the federal reserve
No, the Depression was caused by the Wall Street Crash. The actions of Government in the early 1930s didn't help; things didn't improve until the New Deal was substantially implimented.
