I've noticed a lot of adults 15+ years older than me believe in gods, angels, demons, ghosts, fairies, an entire imaginary world that rational people can't see.
Everything in their daily lives is based on how some angel is protecting them or demon is troubling them.
Where did it all go wrong with these people /pol/?
Only 0.0035% of the electromagnetic spectrum is visible to humans.
You really don't think there's some crazy shit going on in the 99.9965% we can't see?
Probably crazier shit than what you just described.
>>69361477
>not visible to humans
That's why we invent instruments like thermal cameras and ultraviolet telescopes to see the other 99.9965%.
>>69361884
There's things like dark matter we haven't even begun to comprehend though.
I'm probably crazy (and I've done a lot of psychedelics) but I've always thought there is a thin veil between us and the "real world."
>>69361163
Can you see the air you breathe? I assure you that your entire life revolves around getting more of it constantly.
My soul feels the same unconscious longing for God.
>>69362139
Actually you can see it.
Look how the mountains fade in the distance, or how the moon is larger on the horizon. Because you're looking through most atmosphere.
Also you can see when a jet hits mach speed the air compresses and creates a shockwave.
>>69362019
Dark matter may be non-reflective matter that does not emit photons, so it is not detectable by measuring light. It may also not be matter but dark-gravity.
>>69361477
Ghosts!!'nnn ahhhhh!!!!
>>69362403
>>69362612
Let's just say you asked why people believe this, and their ignorance in the things you are talking about is why they do. We create our own meaning when we don't understand.
I do think there are things we can't understand yet at this point. Doesn't mean there are fairies and demons, but claiming you have omniscient knowledge of these things would be false.
>>69361163
>can't see gods, angels, demons, ghosts, fairies
>rational
>>69362777
Kek sees all
>>69361163
Life is tough and people want to believe that spirits will protect them, and that their identity will live on after they are dead. They want to see their family and friends again and they want to think that everything in the end will be alright.
I have a weird view on atheism and religion that I can't really put into words. But my association with atheists on the Internet in the past turned me off from them. They are very angry at things, and I've been banned from numerous atheist websites for holding the opinions I do.
We don't know everything and we never will.
>>69361163
>>69361163
I don't believe in angels,demons,ghosts nor fairies
But GOD exist IMO. However he's not old nigga who lives on a cloud and has a guard who defends his precious stone wall with golden gate.
More like he's some sort of energy field (or something) who creates physics/worlds/universes and oversees them.
As for afterlife I don't know. And I honestly doubt you do either.
>>69361163
>>69363007
Poland without Christianity you will fall to the Muslims. Look at Sweden and the UK, facing some of the worst effects because they were least religious.
>>69362139
>Can you see the air you breathe?
Very easy to design experiments which detect the air we breath.
Designing an experiment that can detect the presence of angels or demons is very different.
I am more afraid of ghosts than Muslims.
>>69361163
Nothing. Where it went wrong was when you lost your culture.
>>69362019
>dark matter
Dark matter interacts extremely weakly except through gravity.
The problem of dark matter isn't going to allow you to hide some hidden realm that interacts with the universe we see in some nontrivial way.
Angels and demons interacting with people would be detectable I would assume right?
daily reminder
>>69363800
read my previous post >>69362748
>>69362948
>science documents
"that millions of people are trying to analyse and only like 100 people in the world have understanding what's happening in general relativity and cosmology. But hey god doesn't exist. Check out this famous youtuber. He explained the whole thing in 2 sentences"
>>69363554
Nah, we're tough pals because we're in between 2 superpowers, who are constantly saying they don't need our shitty lands, but they still invade us.
However yeah, Church helped us during hard times
>>69363595
You don't see the air through those gadgets or experiments anymore than you see the sun in a picture of it.
>rational
Why do atheists believe they're the pinnacle of rationality and logic when agnosticism and deism exist? Atheism is illogical as fuck
>>69361163
>>69364282
No offense, but so is assuming that agnosticism is a stand-alone position.
>>69362403
>>69363595
Begging the question.
Read the god damned sticky on this board.
Come back when you have a thought in your head that conforms to the dictates of logic.
Are you currently banned from that other website? You should go back there. That was an ad hominem (at the man, or in your case child) if you were wondering.
>>69361163
if you opened up then maybe understand pain, but your just a retard for now
What are thoughts? They're energy that we interpret from the one side through a series of words and pictures, yeah?
Where does this energy come from? Who is putting the wind in the sails? How is it that this energy is driving life, from the level of microscopic organisms, to human civilizations?
If you don't have some kind of reverence for the unknown then you are deaf and dumb.
>>69361163
Is that bananaman?
>>69363360
atheists invented religion
you are welcome
>>69365195
>>69365266
do you just sit in this thread constantly refreshing it? lol
>>69365336
do you even 4chan x bro?
>>69365336
Yes.
>>69365336
Is that not what you do?
Cast a few seeds and then refresh constantly until somebody attacks your position.
>>69362403
Pssst. That's mostly the mosture rather than the actual 'air'
>>69363554
Look at the extremely religious middle east and tell me religious extremism is a good thing.
The US works because it is based off a secular system that allows everyone to practice their religion. The majority religion was always Christianity which has been reformed from its more extremist times that the mudslimes are stuck in
>>69365439
>>69365441
>>69365481
and it looks like you talk to yourself via proxies too so your shit threads dont die. pretty pathetic TO BE HONEST. bye
>>69365441
>>69365481
You guys should download an extension, it will automatically update threads and you can set the timer to whatever you want. It's a godsend for rolling stickies
>>69365692
Already have it, but sometimes I like refreshing a thread to see there are like 50 fresh posts.
>>69365603
>Comparing Islam with Christianity
wew lad
>>69365336
>not using 4chinz x
>>69363901
I don't claim I have omniscient knowledge and I agree that there are many things that we don't understand.
However, I don't agree with taking the idea of angels, ghosts, or gods and justifying a belief in them because their are things we don't currently understand. In that mental framework I could just say, for reasons that we don't understand, I believe there exists a physical principal of the universe that disallows the existence of angels.
You would be right to think this is a ridiculous belief.
If I rebutted your concern by saying, "well, I have a strong conviction that this is the truth, and we really don't understand everything about the universe yet so it would be arrogant to dismiss my claim." you would have every right to think me a fool.
I personally don't believe in god but I definitely think that one could exist, I just haven't seen anything extremely tangible in coming to a conclusion in either direction, so I remain agnostic.
I think that's the whole point of the OP, people are able to convince themselves that something could maaaaybe possible and that's enough for them to invest their belief.
I think the whole internet atheism thing is pretty fucking retarded though. 99% of the faggot youtubers like banana man are delusional neckbeards.
>>69363920
>100 people in the world have understanding what's happening in general relativity and cosmology
Not even remotely accurate lol. Someone with a decent physics background and an understanding of Riemannian geometry and tensor calculus can jump into one of the canonical GR texts no problem.
>>69366569
All I know is my apartment is legit haunted. Both my roommate and I have witnessed dark masses. I had one fly right at me that was so visible I thought a moth was flying at me and freaked out. My roommate saw the whole thing. Another time I walked to the bathroom and when I got back my roommate said he heard one of the cabinets in the kitchen open and close and started talking to me only to find out I wasn't in the room. We've also both seen shadows running across the floor. Either we're both crazy or there's something going on we can't explain. But I never trust anecdotal evidence, so I would forgive anyone for disregarding our experience. I wouldn't go so far as to call them demons, but I strongly believe there are forces at work just out of our reach.
>>69366569
Any kind of "knowledge" implies omniscience.
>people are able to convince themselves that something could maaaaybe possible and that's enough for them to invest their belief.
Aha, like you do? Mr. BigShoot atheist. Science is based on dogma upon dogma. It's fundamentally no different from religious superstition.
"All I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates
>Epistemological solipsism
>>69362139
>My soul feels the same unconscious longing for God.
that's gay desu
>>69361163
Is that the banana butt-boy?
>>69362139
bet you wanna suck his dick
>>69363927
I never claimed that I could actually see the air, but merely detect it's existence and it's effects on me/surrounding objects.
I don't claim a necessity to see an angel with my own eyes, only a way that I might detect one's existence just like with the air.
>>69363360
>dick cutting degenerates
isn't that the jews? No wait dumb americans mutilate kids cause they are cucks to the jews.
>>69367642
Pretty sure it refers to the sex-change operations.
>>69361163
It's like fan-fiction for real life.
>>69361163
>>69364282
Atheism just means they don't follow any religion. 99% of Atheists don't say they know there is no god because there is no proof. They simply don't follow any religion since none of them have any proof. Why on earth would you follow a cult when they all say they are the truth, everyone else is lying, and none of them are any more believable than the other. There are literally thousands of religions.
>>69361163
Yeah, like how Berntards think Mother Nature endorsed Sanders with a bird.
>>69364603
Where in my post was I begging the question? I merely pointed out that the existence of the air we breath can be detected by experiment and no such experiment has (to my knowledge) ever detected an angel.
I am not claiming that angels do not exist, that would put the burden of proof on me to demonstrate my claim, I am merely pointing out a reason for suspension of belief.
>>69367722
>sex-change operations
I know what it refers to, I just find the hypocrisy hilarious.
>>69367867
If one were to deny God and be wrong, the consequences are eternally tragic. Therefore, the most rational choice, considering the absence of absolute certainty, is theist, not atheism.
>>69361163
>>69368153
Yes that is so morally right. To believe in a God just cause you're scared of the consequences. Pascals wager is immoral and should not be a reason or even a consideration when determining morality.
>>69368437
How is morality even relevant? Theism is the most rational choice because >>69368153
>>69368153
Believing the difference between heaven and hell is the nebulous, undevout belief in some kind of God somewhere is the modern day equivalent of a neanderthal.
>>69368587
Just because you chose to believe doesn't mean you actually do. I can chose to believe in Islam today, I can read all the texts, follow all the laws, that doesn't mean I will actually believe it.
If I told you your religion is wrong and you need to start following Islam or else you will go to hell, would you do it?
>>69368595
Still less "neanderthal" than atheism.
>>69368587
The non existence of God not necessarily leads to lack of meaning (see Nietzsche).
That being said, the same brain configuration that allows your consciousness to manifest and express, could be recreated over and over again. Laws of large numbers, infinite universes. You close your eyes, after a certain amount of time that will be to you no more than the blink of an eye, you will be awake as something else
You are essentially immortal. I just hope this process has some purpose.
>>69367091
What are you talking about dude.
You are equating people saying "we don't know things about the universe therefore a god could exist and I believe in him" with scientists putting in thousands of hours into testing some model trying to determine its accuracy.
There are theories in physics which agree so insanely well with experiment it's insane.
Also I think you misjudge my thoughts on the reach of science.
I am not under the impression that science is giving us absolute truths of the universe.
Every model is only accurate to some degree and so we are not gaining absolute knowledge but instead we develop a basis for the likelihood of said model.
I agree with Socrates unlike some of the massive fedora tippers like Richard Dawkins who will spout on about how this or that is a "fact."
>>69362748
>I do think there are things we can't understand yet at this point.
oh really? wow such news. that's surely a new step away from you being closeminded though.
you know what? I'd shit inside your fedora as hard as possible.
>>69369016
Dawkins never proposed the non existence of God as a fact. His autistic followers did. Dawkins is essentially agnostic, and he simply bashed the lack of meaning of organized cults in general from a logical standpoint.
He has revised his position recently tho
>>69368823
>If I told you your religion is wrong and you need to start following Islam or else you will go to hell, would you do it?
That's not a valid question, given I'm a christian (i.e. a theist). Atheists follow nothing (inb4 muh buddhists).
>Just because you chose to believe doesn't mean you actually do.
Fair. Doesn't change the fact that atheism is more irrational however.
>>69369016
>I am not under the impression that science is giving us absolute truths of the universe.
Is there truth which is not absolute?
>scientists putting in thousands of hours into testing some model trying to determine its accuracy.
Just proves that it could be a coherent illusion.
Atheists are actually the most retarded of all people. The size of the (observable) universe is about 91 billion light years. That's just one scale because below there's a galactic, planetary, human, molecular, atomic, subatomic, etc. etc. scale. We're limited by our human perceptions and we barely understand how the universe works. So you want to make the DEFINITIVE statement that God doesn't exist? BUDDY, we don't even understand what we're trying to give the word God to.
Atheism is going full retard. Period.
>>69368006
>no replies
Lol just die christfaggots
>>69361163
Where did it all go wrong for you????
In case you haven't noticed the foundation of the west has been Christianity and freedom.
>>69369663
>>69369191
>Atheists follow nothing
Nice meme friendo ;^)
>>69369191
>Doesn't change the fact that atheism is more irrational however.
It is not more irrational. I just explained you can't change what you believe just because you chose to.
Not only that, but believing in a god due to the consequences is typical psychopath behavior. They only do things because they are told it is wrong, not because they feel and empathize.
>That's not a valid question, given I'm a christian (i.e. a theist). Atheists follow nothing (inb4 muh buddhists).
How is that not a valid question? My disposition is irrelevant to answering a question. Why are you dodging it instead of answering? Are you scared to see what the answer is?
>>69361163
Atheism leads to degeneracy and the moral corruption of society.
In essence it is the little death that causes total destruction.
People are afraid of death, so they create life after death.
Older people are also notoriously bad at science for two reasons: Shit was Boring before Computers, and our resources today are much better, allowing us to understand easier.
Modern people believe in shit like Energy Crystals and Mushrooms/MDMA magically fixing them. But just like religion when you do the research you find a grain of truth and a sea of bullshit.
I understand belief of God, but angels and demons?
Now you're just a grown person playing pretend. These are the type of people who like to be in the dark about subjects because it makes the world smaller and therefore safer.
>>69369894
>It is not more irrational. I just explained you can't change what you believe just because you chose to.
So you wouldn't call me more irrational for believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny? Lol get out of here.
>Not only that, but believing in a god due to the consequences is typical psychopath behavior. They only do things because they are told it is wrong, not because they feel and empathize
Also, resorting to emotions such as "muh feels" and empathy is irrational. Think before you post, Mr. Rational atheist.
>How is that not a valid question?
Because I'm already a theist. The entire arguments revolves arounda theism being more irrational than theism. Are you daft?
>>69370065
Still better than islam, judaism or pedophile priests
>>69370136
Except religion often bring more trouble than peace. I'm afraid every day that I'm not living the correct way, following the correct doctrine, etc. I was more at peace before I became religious. If anything, atheism is the cop-out.
>>69370277
That's why there is Protestants faggot.
>>69370336
>cucked: the post
>>69363360
- the vast majority of scientists
- the smallest prison population
>>69369418
You're ignoring the point of the whole thread.
Sure I can't prove that we aren't in the matrix, I don't really have any evidence that we are and so I suspend belief until that changes.
This is the whooooole fucking point. Angels could exist but I haven't found any evidence that they do and so I suspend belief; same goes for ghosts and big foot.
>>69370491
Nice meme. All the smartest scientists throughout the ages have been christian. It's not a coincidence that 89.5% of Nobel Prize winners are theists. Atheists suck at science, literature and peace.
>>69368886
Either way you are an ideologue.
Atheism has cultural supremacy in the times and isn't some kind of hedging pseudo-Pagan BS.
>>69368006
OP never said anything about detecting or science. You added that on your own to my comment about things that we can 'see.'
You want to talk about burden of proof? Fine.
Better minds than me have convinced me that there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God with the scientific method.
But if faith and belief guide the hands of men who move the levers of this world then 'God' certainly has a presence in this world in the cheapest possible sense. That being the only one you immoral animalistic atheists and agnostics can fathom.
>>69370583
You're obviously missing the point. There's plenty of evidence for ghosts, fairies and big foot. There's just not any "proof". Same goes for science. There's plenty of evidence to go around, just not any proof. Yet I don't see you "suspending" your belief in that area.
>>69370368
Protestants are laughable. You use a Catholic Book to preach non-catholic idea's, and still rape children.
Amish, Mormans, Jehova's, Snake dancing Baptists, pussy ass Quackers. The only ones not fucked are so lax on rules why bother even going to a church? Might as well be a blanket "christian" and pick and choose what you believe
All the religions are fucked, and if you'd just study science you'd realize you can prove everything you believe. But you won't, so you can't. And I won't tell you because you don't deserve it
>>69370463
Why don't you go make some pizza for the master-race tourists, Mario.
>>69370602
Christianity is also responsible for the creation of the institution of universities and preserved the writing of Greek philosophers during the dark ages.
>>69361163
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=122
Go to this board OP, make an account and start raving at every channeler is a demon worshiper contacting demons and it's all devil stuff. Whatever makes them mad, the word "demon!!" pisses them off. Eventually you'll get the attention of an entity, and if you do it for a few hours you'll have an interesting dream, or sleep paralysis.
Also tape this picture to your ceiling as you fall asleep and stare at it.
Good luck.
>>69370602
>peace prize
Which is a fucking joke. I mean seriously, Al Gore and Obama?
>>69370638
Yeah and see where that have gotten us. Degeneracy is at an all-time high.
>>69361163
Superstition is something that occurs with the highest prevalence among groups whose outcomes are most dependent on factors beyond their control. Fisherman and gamblers are two real good examples. Directly facing the facts as to how little control you have over the outcome tends to lead to you being less motivated and therefore less focused and less alert and ultimately less effective even in regards to the things you CAN control. So it serves a positive evolutionary purpose.
Religion, btw, is not 100% superstition. Maybe 95%, but not completely. There are religious people who are not particularly, if at all, superstitious.
>>69370934
Don't forget Kissinger. It's a complete joke.
>>69370192
I can see from your post that you are a psychopath. No seriously I'm not even joking or trolling you have every characteristic of a psychopath. I would get tested if I were you.
Anyway on to the discussion
>Also, resorting to emotions such as "muh feels" and empathy is irrational. Think before you post, Mr. Rational atheist.
I made no claim of rationality without empathy. But regardless, the true rational approach to religion would be to be skeptical of all of them since they all make claims that every other religion is a lie while having no evidence themselves. To pick a religion over another would be intellectually dishonest. And then to chose a religion because it is "safer" would be akin to a psychopath, which I think you are. Maybe.
>>69370934
>>69371052
Atheists butthurt that they only constitute 9.5% of the Nobel Prize winners. Why don't you go shove a banana up your ass like your fedora-tipping friends.
>>69370866
>>69370983
I don't disagree. I am a religious thinker but it's very personal. None of the old ideologies fit modern men, it's not enough to try to resuscitate something dead. You must tread on new ground.
Heaven and hell are earthly ideas anyway.
>>69368153
>pascal's wager
>>69371159
You've gone full retard now.
I am certain that Obama is privately atheist.
>>69371094
>they all make claims that every other religion is a lie while having no evidence themselves.
Incorrect.
>>69371539
We all know he is muslim
>>69371094
>They only do things because they are told it is wrong, not because they feel and empathize
Implying atheists refrain from doing things because of "muh feels" and empathy. Emotion has no place when it comes to making rational decisions. Therefore, atheists are being irrational when they resort to "muh feels" and empathy. Moral relativism is a joke.
>But regardless, the true rational approach to religion would be to be skeptical of all of them since they all make claims that every other religion is a lie while having no evidence themselves.
Plenty of evidence to go around, but no proof. Same with science.
>To pick a religion over another would be intellectually dishonest.
More rational than picking atheism.
>I can see from your post that you are a psychopath.
I cried when I watched Bambi, I'm not a psychopath.
>>69361163
>>69371159
I guess Jews are the best people, since they fucking make up a huge portion of Nobel Prize winners. But that's none of my business.
>>69361163
It's for the best. They become atheists and they turn into hardcore SJW, Feminist, cultural Marxist, fedora wearing cunts.I would put all my money on betting that 99% of the SJW circles are atheists. I mean your family has already shown they aren't capable of critical thinking and simply common sense. It's best they stay useful idiots.
>>69371446
No, I'm still a theist.
>>69371698
Christians make up a bigger portion.
>>69361163
>I have personally investigated every inch of the known universe and have witnessed every dimension that exists in this universe, as well as every alternate universe, and I have proven without a shadow of a doubt that extra-dimensional beings don't exist.
>>69361163
Show me a 100% rational person.
>>69371745
And if you're talking race, whites still make up the biggest portion.
>>69370821
"I won't tell you because you don't deseve it" sounds like you have tons of evidence you won't share because of personal reason. Not because of course you have no backing and trying to argue your position would leave you vulnerable.
Prove everything?? Through science?? I pretty sure the idea
Of a theory is that it can't be proven true things can only be proven false.
I pick and choose what to believe. Do you not do the same?? When evidence that humans have not evolved from monkeys is shown do you not immediately dismiss that?? I bet you do.
We are all child rapist. Sure faggot all Christians condone child raping. Hell the people who adamantly despise rapist and hold children dear must all rape them. That makes a lot of sense. You compensating for something???
Your upset
Because your world view is retarded and most people disagree with you.
>>69371624
>More rational than picking atheism.
Again it's like you don't even listen. You can't chose what you believe. I don't believe any religion because they are all just as fake as any other. I can't just pick one and believe it just because I want to.
And if your religion happens to be true then I will be brutally tortured for eternity because of that. Do you think it's OK for your god to punish people like that? Do you think your god is morally right?
>>69371745
While being a majority demographic. That's to be expected.
>>69372157
>Again it's like you don't even listen. You can't chose what you believe.
It's like YOU don't even listen. Whether you choice nothing or not is irrelevant. See: "So you wouldn't call me more irrational for believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny? Lol get out of here."
>And if your religion happens to be true then I will be brutally tortured for eternity because of that.
Which is why atheism is more irrational.
Do you think it's OK for your god to punish people like that?
All of his decisions are just.
>Do you think your god is morally right?
Yes
>>69372486
It's like YOU don't even listen. Whether you choose something or not is irrelevant*
>>69361163
Dont worry its normal in america. You dont have decent education etc.
>>69361163
I like the Amazing Atheist when he's not doing the Amazing Atheist character.
>>69372289
>While being a majority demographic. That's to be expected.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know the Nobel Prize was only given to people of European descent. Fucking idiot, lol.
>>69372486
>It's like YOU don't even listen. Whether you choice nothing or not is irrelevant.
>More rational than picking atheism.
You literally just said that. Holy fuck dude.
>>69370699
If OP literally meant see with their own eyes then I disagree with their view, it seemed to me that "see" was meant in the same sense as bring able to detect or interact with.
As for the rest of your post I don't really have much to add, you're pretty much rambling at this point.
It very well may be that god is not detectable via the scientific method.
If I want to experience god what do you suggest then?
>That being the only one you immoral animalistic atheists and agnostics can fathom
You're acting like an animal backed into a corner, it'll always make you look like the lesser man.
>These obviously butthurt replies to valid critizisms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo-8z86x80
>>69372745
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations
>>69361163
A better question is where did it all go wrong for you.
>>69372772
Well alright then. According to your twisted, idiotic mindset, rationality doesn't exist because "LOL YOU CAN'T CHOOSE WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN BRO".
Since this thread is full of religious and non religious people
What is the Atheistic take on Muslim Extremists?
>>69372835
>it seemed to me that "see" was meant in the same sense as bring able to detect or interact with.
If you want to make up your own shit and not address the direct comments then go somewhere else. You know where I mean.
>>69372924
White people are also a minority compared to other races, such as niggers, spics and gooks. According to you, we shouldn't be a majority when it comes to the Nobel Prize.
wew lad
>>69372960
>Well alright then. According to your twisted, idiotic mindset, rationality doesn't exist because "LOL YOU CAN'T CHOOSE WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN BRO".
To an extent, yes. I can't chose to believe in the tooth fairy any more than I can chose to believe in x religion over y religion. That doesn't mean rationality doesn't exist, that just means it takes a lot to believe something, which in most atheists' cases they can't believe any religion because they are all bullshitters. Every religion claims they are the truth with no real proof. How is a person supposed to pick one over the other? They could study every religion for the rest of their life and still not get any closer to a choice between one cult over the other if they were being objective and rational about their approach. Let alone even come close to believing one over another.
I was one of these fags for a long time, and I can tell you what you already probably guessed: it made me feel special.
Literally every stupid thing a millenial or numale/sjw does can be attributed to special snowflake syndrome.
I'm glad reality slapped me in the face and I stopped being a dumbass.
ITT: Assmad christfags
>>69373177
Well we all know sandniggers and niggers are not very smart.
>>69361163
"My dad believes in God and wants me to get a job but I don't cause I Googled something at the age of 12"
>>69373547
Cool shit. Then you wouldn't call me irrational for rejecting science altogether. I mean, a lot of scientists proclaim their theory is the truth, with no real proof. How is a person supposed to pick one over the other? I could study every theory for the rest of my life and still not get any closer to a choice between one theory over the other.
>>69362403
>le atheism
Okay there, bud. I'll still pray for you, but not very hard.
>>69361884
Why do you think they use infrared to catch ghosts?
>>69371539
I'm certain most politicians are. The Christian Uncle thing is all an act.
Aside from Cruz, of course, who's a special kind of retard
>>69370765
>There's plenty of evidence for ghosts, fairies and big foot
I think we may disagree on what constitutes evidence or at least weak vs strong evidence.
I agree that people bring forth evidence for all the aforementioned, however, the evidence in favor is often anecdotal accounts or a shaky video of a man in a gorilla costume.
I wouldn't consider this to be on par with the recent measurements taken at LIGO detecting gravitational waves.
When two of the most accurate laser inferometers ever built both read the exact same signal at the exact same time, the uncertainty is extraordinarily low and so I find it likely that gravitational waves exist.
When people tell stories of odd things happen at their apartment, there are innumerable possible explanations and so I find jumping to the conclusion that the supernatural is real and that a poltergeist is moving your keys around to be hasty.
I'm not saying that I am certain that the poltergeist is not the actual root cause or that LIGO 100% detected gravitational waves, I'm speaking in likelihoods because I can't be certain either way.
>>69373884
You SHOULD be skeptical of science. After all we are all humans and have agendas and/or make mistakes. However when some facts show up consistently is when maybe you should believe some of the shit might be true. For example electromagnetic theory, you may not fully understand it, but with all the electricity and technology we have, it kinda makes sense to think it might be on to something.
>>69374051
Tales of fairies, God and the like have lasted through thousands of years. There has to a shred of truth to them.
>>69361163
>>69374298
Or people just make shit up for thing they dont understand and it becomes a world-wide meme
>>69362019
> im probably crazy
You said it!
>>69374051
>I wouldn't consider this to be on par with the recent measurements taken at LIGO detecting gravitational waves.
Did you take those measurements yourself? Ever been to LIGO? Do you know exactly how a laser inferometer works? Did you build the ones at LIGO? You are choosing to put trust in these scientists, same as someone putting trust in the anecdotal evidence of a friend, family member or stranger.
>>69361163
>I've noticed a lot of adults 15+ years older than me believe in God
How do you know so many 29 year olds?
>>69374236
Of course we should be skeptical. That's not what my post was about.
>However when some facts show up consistently is when maybe you should believe some of the shit might be true.
Why? Is that more rational? If so, is this a more rational belief? Do you then admit that there are beliefs which are more rational?
>>69361477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrxjaGq-FIo
Watch this my friend, Disclosure is coming <3
>>69371677
Pretty much, yeah.
>>69373036
There is no THE atheistic take on anything except for anything except the no gods question.
Personally I despise Islam as it is not merely a religion and worship of a deity. It is a political ideology and it is very violent. I would like to see only educated Muslim immigration or none at all and the deportation of all rapefugees and those already here that do not integrate in our societies.
We must fight them wherever they spring up. We must tow back the boats or let them sink in the seas and their occupants drown. There is no other way I fear. We must not ally with the Neo-Ottomans.
Being dedicated to religion is like listening to pump up music while working out.
It's a confidence booster for every day life. It gives you light. Light=energy. Simple concept.
Relating real life encounters to spiritual knowledge can influence your decisions.
Mental transmutation is the key to evolution. Perspective is everything.
Stress is caused by a negative thinker and effects the body negatively. Dedicated religion following can reduce stress and keep you healthy.
Atheists aren't as smart as they think. Religion is a tool for knowing oneself better and building a strong mind, and with a strong mind comes a good life.
>>69374834
Yes there are beliefs that are more rational because rationality is also subjective. However believing something because you won't be punished as much if it ends up being true may be rational even to me. But it is also immoral to me.
It is way too fucked up to think a god would actually brutally punish people just because they didn't pick that specific religion over others. I simply cannot believe such evil would create this universe.
>>69361163
>Not believing in angels and devils
What the fuck kind of retarded church did you go to as a kid? The Bible clearly discusses these things.
>fairies
Total bullshit. MLP tier faggotry.
>>69375241
> I would like to see only educated Muslim immigration
Remove this part. They procreate like rabbits and it's not guaranteed their offspring will be "educated".
>>69375536
>Yes there are beliefs that are more rational because rationality is also subjective.
If rationality is subjective then there are no rational beliefs.
"Apples are tasty" <----> "Apples are not tasty".
Apples are either tasty or they're not. Same goes for rationality. Something is either rational or it ain't.
>>69361163
introduction to tradition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpcpZRxlrOA
As far as I am concerned religion stems from tradition, not the other way around.
The various expressions aren't entirely vital. Unfortunately religion is mostly a joke today, both for the believers and the non-believers.
>>69375818
>"Apples are tasty" <----> "Apples are not tasty".
You literally just disproved yourself. Not everyone thinks apples are tasty.
>>69361163
Also most people are retards. It doesn't have to do with religion.
>>69375947
Are you stupid or something? Let me give you another example then.
"Rape is wrong." <----> "Rape is not wrong".
Better? I guess you would argue that rape isn't necessarily wrong either. Hurr durr my subjectivity.
>>69376287
>"Rape is wrong." <----> "Rape is not wrong".
Buddy, do you know where you are? This is 4chan you have more diverging opinions on what is wrong or right, rational or irrational than a lot of other places. There are plenty of people and religions that believe rape is not wrong.
>>69376594
Yeah but both can't be right. Contradictions are not logical. Same with rationality. Something can't be both rational and irrational. Do you see what I'm getting at? Your "subjectivity" is irrelevant. Something either IS or ISN'T.
God is the set of all things that exist union the set of all statements about those things which are true. God is very real under my definition and we can have no hope to formally define every individual element.
>>69361163
REDPILL Athiest=pessimist u blindly beleave theres no "insert system here" with NO EVIDENCE
BELIVER Optamist= You blindlybleave with NO EVIDENCE
>>69376712
Some people thing it is rational to believe in religions with no proof <----> Some people believe it is irrational to believe in religions with no proof
Rationality is subjective.
>>69376831
Plenty of evidence supporting theism. Get out of here.
>>69377001
plenty of evidence on mono theism name 1 pice of urs brah
>>69376952
Whether something is irrational or not is not subjective. Believing if something is irrational or not, that is. Get your head out of your ass.
Some people believe Harry Potter is real, others don't. Are both right? No they're not.
>>69377169
Bible.
>>69377169
I lied i dont think theres any for eather prove me wrong
>>69371935
The idea is that if you won't look for something you don't deserve it. You don't work, you don't deserve pay.
And I meant prove in a less scientific meaning, in that you can get your point across without using Magic in your argument. You can rationalize God very easily.
And of course we all pick and choose, but I pick and choose based on Data and Measurements and you do it based on your feefee's.
And how the hell can you associate yourself with a group that's been party to pedophilia, apologized, then continued to do it? Time and Time Again.
How is this not enough to force you to reject the entire group, unless you somehow condone it?
I'm not upset at all, and everyone agree's with me when I tell them how to rationalize God. But not you, because you don't deserve to know.
>>69377169
Don't fall for this. Evidence is not proof. He can name anything. I've seen these faggots say how a sunset is beautiful as evidence of their specific monotheistic god. It's pretty funny.
>>69371698
That huge portion of jews is mostly economics laureates. Naturally
>>69376712
you seem to be implying that morals are objective and that we can look to this magic moral cloud for moral truth. Such an objective cloud has not been found, but it does not rule one out.
Therin lies the reason you 2 cant agree. When he sees a lack of concrete evidence, he is in disbelief, yet you seem to make idealistic assumptions (ideals that specifically arent hardcore empiricism) which lead to the results you desire.
Neither of you are wrong, but typically the empiricist has a hard time giving up that view for the sake of intelligent arguments on God.
>>69377387
im a christian name another god in the bible other than the trinity=god the vedas that predate the bible talk of theism they are books and or manuscripts not evidence bro
>>69363360
The guy that made the "piss Christ" thing was, and is, actually Christian.
>>69377427
bro theres no evidence ur senses are not evidence of anythin but your senses if you regauard somthing as epic thats ur opinion not evidence "I think therefre i am"
>>69377705
proof =evidence idk theres neather
>>69377427
Same goes for science you autistic neckbeard. There is literally 0 proof of anything related to science.
>>69377225
>Some people believe Harry Potter is real, others don't. Are both right? No they're not.
Some people believe without any proof at all that a specific deity with specific beliefs exists while other people with other deities with similar evidence are all liars. Then there are some people who see through all their bullshit and say they won't chose any because none of them are very believable. And you tell me not choosing a specific religion is irrational. Fucking top kek m8
>>69361163
Most of it is mental illness.
5-25% Actually real and said people learned how to harness something. Or a small percentage actually being plagued and drained by something.
Basically bro, just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it isn't real. And just because something is real, and you believe it, means that it exists.
You might be better to keep the outlook of disbelief in everything.
>>69377886
>>69362019
>dark matter
probably just a fucking huge rock, which doesn't interact with light. That's some real spooky stuff
>>69377950
>see through all their bullshit
Hey man, you said rationality is subjective. Their beliefs aren't necessarily bullshit just because you think so :))))
>And you tell me not choosing a specific religion is irrational.
Told you that being an atheist is irrational, which it is.
>>69377886
>Same goes for science you autistic neckbeard. There is literally 0 proof of anything related to science.
Holy fuck you have to be a troll. I tip my fedora to you and bid good day this retardedness has gone too far.
>>69378235
>Hurr durr you're a troll because I've never heard of epistemological solipsism hurr durr I'm an uneducated fedora-faggot.
I don't believe it's your fault for being so retarded though. I blame your government for putting so much fluoride in the water supply.
>>69363843
>this man exists and has a large fanbase that likes him unironically.
>>69364516
>I don't believe in God, but MAYBE he exists?
>I believe in God, but maybe he doesn't exist lol
Ain't no such thing as "agnostic atheism" or "agnostic theism".
There's only theism, atheism, and agnosticism.
>>69378842
>Ain't no such thing as "agnostic atheism" or "agnostic theism".
That's the only way which agnosticism is applicable (to that or other beliefs).
>>69378974
PS: It's a fucking logical contradiction to say "I don't believe in God, but I also don't don't believe in God." You either believe in God or you don't.
>>69361163
What's wrong is the world is going to shit. It has already started in the middle east.
>>69379168
Som att det inte redan är skit i västvärlden också.
>>69378075
When we observe galaxies and clusters they behave in a way they're supposed to behave if they had MUCH more mass than they actually do. This "missing mass" got the name of dark matter. This matter doesn't interact with EM radiation like ordinary matter does. It can only be inferred. That's all there is to it. The spooky part is that there's an overwhelming amount of this stuff all over the universe (over five times more than ordinary matter) and nobody knows what it is.
>>69379268
oh i know what it is, invisible matter
>>69379268
and 99% of every atom is space brimming with energy mad world much
>>69378842
Agnosticism is an admittance that there can't really be certainty about a subject that doesn't really have obtainable evidence.
>>69379572
or fence sitters? inaction is the action of non action? i ask any of those dudes to be certain that thhey are alive
>>69379572
bretty sure they just beleave they cant be certain
>>69380118
Precisely, which is why there are agnostic atheists and theists. You can't be just "agnostic".
>>69361163
If people were rational then the free market would work perfectly and there would be no liberals.
People go to watch
> "gods, angels, demons, ghosts, fairies, an entire imaginary world"
all the time at the cinema....
> Where did it all go wrong?
Day 1
>>69380118
or is consensus of a meaning proof these days "the world is flat and we all know it"
>>69380178
epic learnin recived
>>69380246
Dude, what are you on about? Rationality is subjective.
>>69380178
surely you could believe that there is a 50/50 chance of there being a God. That would make them pure agnostic since they have no preferrence one way or the other.
>>69368153
>If one were to deny God and be wrong
which god?
>>69361163
One man's ghost is another man's extra-terrestrial and another man's demon, or extra-dimensional, or faerie or hallucination or....
>>69380526
If you don't believe in God, guess what? You don't believe in God, consequently making you an atheist. Agnosticism is the antonym of gnosticism which is defined as "having knowledge". Agnosticism is lacking knowledge. I don't know that God exist, but I believe he does. Does that make me an agnostic or a christian? Surely it would make me an agnostic christian?
>>69380746
I would enjoys seeing someone deny Spinozas ETHICAS god
>>69380914
Albert Einstein's religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the "pantheistic" God of Baruch Spinoza,
>>69380746
Doesn't matter. Believing in one God increases your odds of avoiding hell more than not believing in any, thus making theism more rational.
>>69381061
>>69381061
Did you even look at the chart?
Atheist = without deity.
You could be an atheist because you have some kind of firm faith that there is no deity (this is mostly a theist distortion but occasionally you hear this from someone that seems serious) but more commonly atheists simply don't have any reason to believe in deity and therefore leave deity out when arranging their lives - hence atheists.
Agnostic not an alternative position to atheist, or to theist either for that matter. Agnostic is on a different axis - it expresses an epistemological position, denying the possibility of knowledge of deity. It's perfectly possible (though presumably rare) for someone to practice a religion and believe in a deity but still not believe that it is possible for us to actually have knowledge of the deity. That would be an agnostic theist.
>>69381225
the best position
>>69380898
>I don't know that God exist, but I believe he does. Does that make me an agnostic or a christian? Surely it would make me an agnostic christian?
Playing with sophistry there. If you "believe" god exists then you "know" god exists. That's how blind faith works.
>pseudo-intellectualism
stop
>>69381061
Not 100% here but i think that folowing gods commandments are to save us from hell and our belif in him is to foloow his instruction cld be wrong we ahave enterd dark waters lol
>>69381061
Damn, Sweden...back at it again with Pascal's Wager.
>>69379374
Not emitting photons => no charged particles => no E&M
Nothing wrong with the grace of Allah.
>>69381437
So according to you, atheists know that God doesn't exist, and theists know that he does? Surely someone must be wrong, and therefore someone doesn't really "know", just believe that he does.
"Those who reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) are deaf and dumb in darkness. Allah sends astray whom He wills and He guides on the Straight Path whom He wills." Quran 35:8
>>69381932
does ayat have a literal bro is it word?
i can tell the difference between a sincere metaphysical theory, which may involve pretty much any kind of 'lunacy' and still be quite rational, and the kind of stilted reactionary adherence to religious doctrines that some people do just because they were made to and wish to make others do in turn, or just because its uncool, thus, cool.
the religious people on pol fall into 3 categories.
1. he can't say for sure either way but suspects for a lot of reasons and lives as best he can to do right in the 'unseen world'
2. he doesn't actually believe, and he knows that on 'some' level, but the point is moot, it doesn't matter if it's true at all, it gives him strength and authority to espouse, (usually with some level of violent rhetoric) whatever he construes as the most 'ordinary' or square or standard version of the most standard, average gospel. this persons hypocrisy is actually the only thing keeping him within the bounds of society.
3. the true believer, you can probably tell by looking at him he's nuts, myriad life issues and mental aberrations, they all have this same style of posting on youtube and pol and facebook. i'd say beware but unless he actually is the one out of a million that has some gumption, his threat level to anyone but himself and anyone caught up in his life is minimal.
now, two truths, the second of which contradicts the first, and that will make sense when you understand the first...
1. nobody has a choice in what they believe. if they believe in god or do not, either way, its out of their hands. its like being black or being white. it is what it is.
2. actually, you can choose to believe in anything, once you understand all beliefs are false fullstop. the only remaining belief becomes the meta-belief that belief is a means to an ends, a belief only in the power of belief.
most people simply don't have the capacity to believe in what they will to believe.
>>69381898
Well it comes down to the use of words; "know" and "knowledge". Two people can be given access to exactly the same discrete data about something and come to entirely different conclusions as a result.
So is the original data the "knowledge" or is the final (different) conclusion?
>>69361163
>>69383119
best yall got.
never were known as geniuses.
>>69382784
Whichever is correct? I personally don't believe that absolute certainty is attainable. The same way I don't believe anything can be proven, only assumed.
>>69365568
Moisture is part of the air you breathe. If he said oxygen you would be correct, pedant. You knew that. Or do you mean to say that nitrogen is not part of air too?
Im glad your empire fell, yall never do or say anything useful.
>>69383607
ur empire is owed to the fed?
>>69382282
"we live in a reactionary unverse were the only ever action was a bang" me =p
what cat am i
>>69375818
><---->
Your symbol is confusting. Most people us <=> or a variant such as <-> to mean "if and only if"
^ is and
v is or
a=>b is if a then b
>>69384474
was it really a bang, or was that just gods dice hitting the table for the first time?
>>69383313
OK well my take on it is that "knowledge" is a conclusion arrived at from studying available data so the second case. Knowledge is subject to change as new data is received or old data is discredited as false. That's the scientific method.
However it seems to me that theists and gnostics believe that "knowledge" appears to be immutable, esoteric and not subject to challenge ( and that doing so could lead to death in many religions over hundreds of years).
>>69361163
>God makes people to worship Him
>People: nah
>Fill the need with gods of there own making.
>>69370602
Many of those smartest scientists faced fierce opposition from the church and had non dogmatic views on god and religion. The church used to let you pay your way to heaven, but then decided later it was a no go without any actual new data.
You aint even a bad troll, I was considering not calling you on it. But you act as if anyone who is an atheist is a fedora and equate religious dogma with scientific evidence for the sake of argument. Theres a difference between playing devils advocate and making your fellow christians look bad.
the difference between an idea and a belief is that an idea might be right, but a belief is always wrong.
>>69384795
im a christian =) would love to post the budist belief i think it is of a conciseness escaping a universe and creating a new one through that act cant find it to paste
They dont take fruit up the ass. That is the problem, not enough degenerate edgy faggots OP. We need more faggots like you
>>69385095
i'm a christian on wednesdays and a catholic on fridays.
my current schedule is,
sun muslim
mon atheist
tue satanist
wed christian
thu hindu,
fri catholic
sat taoist
it keeps me from stagnating.
>>69361163
Your right OP angels and demons don't exist, there is no human spirit or soul... Really it's better to just not think about it and go smoke another bowl and play some more video games.
>>69385398
it would be true bu ti beleave jesus is the hope of all mankind the hope of residing with the profits in sheol untill he returns to earth
>>69385398
but i also like culture and religion is human culture all religion
>>69385037
>But you act as if anyone who is an atheist is a fedora
Based on my own experience, the vast majority of atheists are.
>equate religious dogma with scientific evidence for the sake of argument.
No, because evidence and proof are not the same thing. I just posted that I do not believe that anything can be proven, only assumed. That makes science equivalent to religion. Both have evidence for what they claim, but no proof.
>Theres a difference between playing devils advocate and making your fellow christians look bad.
My "fellow" christians shouldn't care what other people think of them. Only God's "opinion" matters.
>>69363360
Don't forget the bear footed yelling Jew calling people goyim. Look it up
>>69385761
amen brother. amen. praise jesus he will save us. we are all damned from birth by original sin, just to be, is to be damned, to be, is to be wrong, and we must reject all this world has to offer because someone who totally did tons of rad miracles got killed, but because he never did a bad thing in his life, he now has the power to make all the bad things that we did and are be like never existed. it was actually a big plan all along. and praise jesus hallelujah, soon, the world will be engulfed in torture and hell and death and suffering, praise jesus and then the end will come, earth will be no more and all souls will either be in heaven, which is apparently a reward and is positive and stuff, i guess there's sex or something equally good there, or in hell, forever, just being torture for fucking ever because you didn't 'accept jesus into your heart'.
this is what i truly believe. amen brother amen. praise god and pass the ammo.
>>69366928
Had a weird experience at my house last year. I lived with 7 roommates I was awake
>>69384920
So knowledge by your definition is just based on information and perspectives rather than being true or false?
Why is it that all Jews are athiest. 4 Jewish people I knew in highschool were. Almost every Jew you meet claims it. Even Bernie. Are they hoarding the afterlife ?
>>69386365
lol mayb or mayb the universe decided to guide us and mayb the world is such an evil place because of satan and it is impossible to be uncorrupted in a place owned by a fallen angel so he gave himself for us =p or mayb humans just enjoy irradiating the oceans profiting from suffering poluting our food water and minds when we dont need to amen bro
