what are /pol/s thoughts on raising the federal minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour?
I think it should be up to the states to decide.
don't just spout memes.
Welcome to Basic Living Income senpai.
The service and manufacturing sectors are toast anyways.
Employing living breathing human being will soon be a luxury, they should be paid as such.
Its for the best. It's the future.
>>69303480
It seems like a way get even more taxes.
Negative income tax!
>>69303480
I can't wait for the robots and kiosks so I don't have to deal with people anymore.
I hope I get an increase in my salary since my job has a base of $16 an hour and it requires more effort than flipping burgers
>>69303907
>I can't wait for the robots and kiosks so I don't have to deal with people anymore.
WHATCHA WANT WHITEY? *SMACKS LIPS* HOL UP
>>69303907
Not to mention the elimination of call centers for customer service. I won't have to deal with LaQueesha anymore.
On the downside, beign at $26/hour, i'll be back down to starting college wages, comparatively.
That 3rd guy is usually the shittiest worker anyways, but now you have to pay more taxes for his unemployed ass.
Also minimum wage increase only causes inflation and hurts anyone getting paid more than minimum wage.
>>69303480
would work if you got rid of illegals
other wise that cartoon is pretty applicable.
>>69304089
I always said that the future won't be able to occupy the demand of our current population.
I always thought the best method would be to breed humans for quality over quantity.
But it seems now that the globalists are perfectly fine with pushing our population to a crisis point where millions will starve and die from civil war before we reach a sustainable population.
>>69304089
In Australia they we have those.
Though funnily enough they have proven, so far, to cost a fair bit more than paying some kid $20 an hour. Development costs, hardware costs, installation costs, training costs & maintenance costs combined are actually very high.
The actual reason they brought them in was so they could try and cut the line time at the morning rush by having more ques.
>>69303907
/thread
Most service and retail jobs can be easily automated to the point that you will need approximately 1/3rd the current workforce.
And the service will be better.
>>69303480
If it were up to the states, we'd still have slavery.
mAYBE IF WE JSUT RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE HIGHER AND HIGHER WE CAN JUST KEEP PUSHING INFLATION
MAYBE IF GO FROM 25₵ TO 25$ AN HOUR WE CAN JUST RUIN THE DOLLAR AND OUR CITIZENS CAN TAKE THE PISS
>>69303480
wouldn't this just create a workforce entirely of part time workers?
no employer is going to pay that and offer full time benefits. should be worse for everyone and their families
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/raising-the-minimum-wage-to--15-hour-will-kill-6-6-million-jobs--aaf-152547994.html
If the minimum wage gets better the higher it is why not just raise it to a gorillion!
Not in the mood to write it all out but basically companies have to make a profit somehow. A lot of times in the US the net profit on an item can be as low as 1 cent when we factor in every single aspect of getting it on the shelf and maintaining the store. If the minimum wage is arbitrarily raised to some number to help people make more money, companies have to stay competative somehow, whether it's by laying off more workers an being understaffed or raising the prices and costing consumers money, which is what usually happens. Making more money is irrelivant when everything costs more anyway.
Proof of this is in my own lifetime, the minimum wage has gradually gone up for no real reason and to the profit of nobody. My grampa would always tell me how he would buy chocolate bars for as little as 5 cents when he was a little kid. Has the value of chocalate bars gone up 20x since then? No, but the wage of the cashier has.
Fucking around with money in a free market helps nobody. It ruins the whole point, as people are no longer being paid what the labour is actually worth, but what the government states it's worth at the time and the market has to adapt around it until it's deemed oppressive again and raised.
Not to mention
>price raises
>demand falls
>>69306036
interesting. so basically this kid on my kikebook is spouting how if people earn more money that they will spend more money and in return help the economy grow. what do I say senpai?
>>69306372
Just because there is more money to spend doesn't mean there are more resources to buy lol
>>69303480
If the two on the left were niggers or spics it'd make more sense.
>>69306372
Well if business owners are taxed less they will have more money to spend on employees and give them higher salaries. Ask him if he likes trickle down economics too.
>>69306372
in the same sense that negative interest rates in sweden will convince people to spend
>>69303480
>implying 24 man hours of labour somehow costs less when split between 2 labourers rather than 3
u fkn wot m8
>>69305705
Oy Gevalt! More than 6 gorillion Jew- I mean jobs?
>>69303480
is the joke that the fat (probably lazy) guy with the bad attitude is supposed to matter more or as much as the two happy hard working employees?
>>69306372
>>69306618
I worded that badly. He'll be buying the same amount of everything in the first place anyway because the prices are higher to correspond to his higher salary.
Inflation sure is shitty.
>The jobs Obama brought are bad low level jobs that are worthless!
>Someone in fast-food lost their job because the company can't afford raises? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
Conservative logic
>>69303480
Wait do you guys remember when Zimbabwe decided to half the price of everything in order to fight inflation and their entire economy just stopped entirely because everything ran out? Same deal.
Prices exist because of scarcity. There is a limited amount of everything and prices reflect that and serve as a motivator to buy things that are more available.
Even if beach houses costed 1$ apeice, it wouldn't change the fact that there aren't enough to go around for everyone. Even if the price of everything was halfed, it would not change that there isn't enough to go around. Even if workers made 100$/hr, it would not change the value of the labour they're providing.
>>69304089
>>69303907
They are already doing that. Face it, if capital (people like me who actually own and produce shit for a living) had things our way we wouldn't pay you faggots anything. Robots are superior in every way.
>>69303480
Most of them are useless. They don't even count fucking change the register spits it out. They always make your coffee wrong too.
ONE CREAM AND ONE SUGAR. Fucking raise it and automate their jobs faster.
>>69304089
Wawa is a fast food business that has touch screens. It also has employees.
Checkmate, atheists.
>>69304083
This
But we won't
>>69307792
>increasing minimum wage from a laughable $7.25/hr to $8 or $9 is pretty much the same as making beach houses $1 and will destroy the entire economy
faggots like you are why its so easy for the democrats to pander to minorities. its asinine to think the minimum wage can stay the same for decades while inflation steadily grinds it down to nothing.
>>69303480
I 1,000% back abolishing the minimum wage.
Let the free market decide the minimum wage. People will not work below a certain dollar amount. At some point it is more profitable to live off the government than work, you see it now ALL the time. So abolish the minimum wage all together.
>>69308281
>People will not work below a certain dollar amount.
Some people will. People who work for nothing will flood the markets. "living off the government" is hell. You want to create an America where the only people employed work for peanuts and everyone else lives in hell holes off the taxes of the few workers left.
>>69308472
Thank you based Mexicans and open borders libbies
>>69308472
>You want to create an America where the only people employed work for peanuts and everyone else lives in hell holes off the taxes of the few workers left.
No.
Remove this.
>and everyone else lives in hell holes off the taxes of the few workers left.
And add this
>You want to create an America where the only people employed work for what is reasonable under their understanding of the time value of money.
Basic economic principle. Like I'm serious, I'm pretty certain that time value of money was part of my opening lecture in ECON 201 and again in ECON 202.
>>69308472
minimum wage is $7.25
you know what you get for $7.25 an hour? someone who works exactly 20 hours a week and does the bare minimum/nothing at work to claim benefits and probably sells drugs or stolen shit on the side for his primary income
people don't "work" for $7.25. they are actively incentivized to avoid working more than the minimum hours because even 50 hours a week wouldn't be shit.
$9-10/hr is entirely reasonable and would probably get a shit ton of fuckers off gimmedat benefits if it was more lucrative to work fulltime
>>69303480
There only wanting 15 dollars a hour is because they were too damn lazy in school and now they don't have the job they want. they should just go to a community college.
>>69308472
I don't give a shit as long as I don't have to pay them.
>>69308258
I was making an example with the beach house thing.
Raising the minimum wage is a very large cause of inflation as the market responds to it.
The value of their labour will never change so people will never be paid next-to-nothing due to inflation; they will always be paid the same relative to the economy, their worth doesn't suddenly change.
Can we implement a negative income tax already?
>>69308808
Nah, Americans need to take control of their own economy and make their own fast food restaurants, supplied by their own farms. Independence!
Ultimately it doesn't matter, all low levels jobs will be automated in a decade or two regardless of wage level. The economy is going to need some serious rethinking as we start to get millions and millions of people with literally no jobs for them to fill. Capitalism and communism weren't designed to work with a mostly automated workplace.
>>69309096
OK so doesn't that mean that it won't really change anything?
>>69303480
First off, it's retarded for people to think this is a win when they won't get $15/hour for another six years.
Hours will be cut and they'll just have to work more for their new income.
Some might be making too much so they'll lose out in benefits.
Anyways, there shouldn't be a minimum wage. I mean who determines what the minimum wage should be?
>>69309096
$15/hr is a pipe dream thats never going to happen but $8 or $9 should have happened years ago.
there would be minimal inflation and price of goods would have to change by a couple pennies at most to support it.
god forbid you stingy arrogant fuckers had to pay 2 cents more though so people could get off government benefits to survive
>>69305185
>If it were up to the states, we'd still have slavery.
You say that like its a bad thing...
I worked hard. I got a job and worked my ass off for a promotion. I went from a temp to an operator to a lab tech. I earned my raise and earn my $16.75+ an hour.
Now a teenager or a lazy burger flipper that is either too stupid or lazy to get my 2 item order right half the time is crying for $15+ because "its like, fair, okay?"
>how do you think i feel?
If they want more money they should get a real job.
>>69309329
Other than a short term loss of demand where prices raise, and inflation as the market adapts, eventually we will always end up in the same position we're in now concerning the minimum wage.
>>69304089
>>69305137
Self checkout is good, but it still needs more work. You can't have many items or many large items. It's basically a scale, so you can't put your items in the cart until you finish or the person there resets it.
>>69309624
>wage slave thinks that he has the right to look down on other wage slaves
I honestly regret even reading your likely made up rags to slightly better rags story by the way. Fuck off and actually create something for once in your useless life you moronic parasite.
>>69303480
if australia can do better, america can do better.
>>69309736
lmao
>>69309624
>i dont make shit but at least i can shit on people that make less than me
>>69303480
I'm fucking terrified.
Who the hell is gonna hire a fresh college kid?
>>69308808
if you put so much faith in following the herd and getting useless degrees and shit or prioritize doing dumb shit with friends, why are you opposed to earning a wage that is realistically attributed to your lack of skill but forces you to split rent 5 ways?
>>69309950
that got too wordy
>why are you opposed to living like a farm animal if you act in accordance with the herd?
>>69303480
I make 15.75 an hour right now with a 10% bonus for working nights bringing me to 17.32.
The fastfood workers may be replaced, but why should the dropout career Wal mart workers make the same I do, when I had to go back to school and go through a rigorous job hunt, and now work full time while still attending school to earn that wage?
I worked my ass off to be worth that wage, why should they get the same for a fraction if the effort? Sadly I live in California and this shit is going to be forced through, but I plan to be out by the time it's in full effect.
>>69303480
>What are /pol/s thoughts on some really stupid bullshit that has never worked before?
Huh.
>>69309733
Im not looking down on another wagie because hes making less, im griping cus some retards out there believe that they should have the same standards and rewards for less work. Like women do to men.
"That CEO/skilled laborer/stem guy is making more money and is living a better life! I should be getting $30+ per hour too! I work hard at taking out the trash and sweeping floors too you know? Like omg!"
>but i guess a neet like you wouldnt understand. Go crawl back into r9k and die you pitiful waste.
>>69310180
You do know that in most Walmarts across the country, night shift workers make $15 an hour, right?
>>69310180
Please see
>>69309838
>>69309733
>>69310180
>my nigga
At least someone gets it.
>>69310491
Isn't it your bed time yet? Gotta get up early to prep the boss.
>>69310511
If that is the case perhaps it changed because before they were close to minimum wage as it is now. My argument applies to any low skill service job however.
I haven't even brought up the fact that this idea will destroy small businesses wherever it is implemented.
>>69303480
Idea is that the company can afford it. And they can, easily. Employees' base salary is a small part of most businesses' costs.
It's the shareholders that won't allow it because getting fewer shekels makes them have a sad.
>>69303480
retarded and another step to communism.
Labor pool is too large, this is not a solution, it's not even a bandaid, it's just another problem to kill small bussiness and accelerate the road to automated systems.
>>69310568
The attitude in those posts is the same attitude those dropouts working in those dumps have.
Besides once I finish school I'll be making a lot more. Nothing wrong with earning a good wage if you earned it, parasites that feel they are entitled to one can kill themselves imo
>>69310728
>isnt it your bedtime yet neet?
Cant get no tendies tomorrow if mommy find out your staying up too late and docks your good boy points.
>>69310734
If people want to be paid better it's not the employers job to concede that to them. It's THEIR job to find a job that offers the pay they want and THEIR job to reject the jobs whose pay is too low.
Right now we have too many useless shits who refuse to learn skills that are worth a damn and instead say "I shouldn't have to increase my value or search for a better job. I should just get what I want with no effort whatsoever!"
>I went from a minimum wage fast food job working with a bunch of useless 40-something niggers to an actual restaurant where I'm being trained by an actual chef for significantly higher pay
>tfw the useless niggers are still at that minimum wage job complaining about how they don'[t get paid enough
Straight up fuck a job. I'm just gonna keep using and abusing my senpai and friends for awhile until I do a mass killing or some shit. Fucking world. I got cucked and it fucking hurt
>>69311136
I don't have to answer to anyone and you pay for that privilege.
The only real skill is being the owner and you're the product.
Tick
o
c
k
>>69309938
Funny how most jobs that are actually benefit society can't be replaced by robots
>Painters can't be replaced, too complex for a robot
>Plumbers can't be replaced
>Asphalt workers can't be replaced
>Electricians can't be replaced
>Maintenance workers can't be replaced
Only shitty jobs can be replaced by robots. I'm sure the homeless population will go up and they'll find some utopia in nature somewhere where they can live without electricity and running water and make moonshine and grow pot
>>69303480
It shouldn't be statewide it should be decided by city and county.
San Francisco County should not have he same wage as shasta county; that's retarded.
>>69311538
You could easily apply that same logic to employers. If they don't want to pay a minimum wage that has kept pace with inflation then they can try to make do without employees.
>>69304089
Only under capitalism is technological progress condemned.
>>69311538
The best part is how easy it is to get promoted at retarded retail jobs by just showing up to work on time.
I laughed my ass off when I worked at a movie theater and they were scrambling to find someone to work as a manager, of the 30ish only 4 of us had good enough records of showing up to work on time and the 3 other people all failed the piss test.
Working eight hours a day, six days a week, what is the minimum hourly wage necessary in order to not starve to death under a bridge?
Assuming you got a cheap ratty apartment and lived off the cheapest food possible like bags of dried beans.
>>69307917
People overreact to the robots taking over the workforce thing. 95% of what goes on inside the distribution warehouse I work at requires a human hand in some capacity.
>>69311620
You do actually. Wait till your mommy kicks you out. Or dies. Woe to the neet.
>better to be a product than a parasite
>>69311933
The people complaining the loudest are retards living in NYC and SanFran which have absurd cost of living prices.
Cost of living in VA is low as fuck and you could very easily live off minimum wage in comparison, but these idiots refuse to move out of the absurdly expensive area.
>>69305026
How do you fix it though? China's plan backfired hard with a huge surplus of men without women. No judgement, I agree the number of people already is too high, much worse going forward with population growth.
>>69311844
Employers will ALWAYS pay the absolute lowest they can get away with.
Useless niggers and lazy faggots are the ones allowing them to get away with it.
If my boss tried to pay me minimum wage where I am now I would walk out on the fucking spot without a single second of hesitation.
>>69311933
This too.
I was about 17 while I worked my shitty fast food job and they actually asked me to be a manager. I turned them down because I was going to school and, this is the important part, the little extra pay was not enough to justify the extra work required.
If I had actually given a shit about that job I would have haggled with them and gotten the pay I wanted but I knew my time there would be short so I didn't bother.
>>69312247
Meant to respond to >>69312021
>>69303480
1. build wall
2. "you gotta go back"
3. let wages be determined by the market
4a. Subsidize farming or give them tax breaks so they can afford the workers
4b impose protectionist policies for agricultural goods and related goods
problem solved. Go work on farms you entitled fucks.
>>69310180
>15.75 an hour
>in california
whew lad. I make $18 an hour and live in Tennessee. Never set foot on a college campus either. Warehouses love to hire white guys.
Pro tip: half the male population of Memphis between the ages of 18-35 have criminal records, and are thus unemployable for most companies. You can get a managerial job for a Fortune 500 company if you are smart enough to finish high school and stay out of prison.
>>69308281
Higher wages = More Buying Power = Stronger Economy (to a certain extent).
No minimum wage whatsoever would weaken the purchasing power of people leading to economic depression.
Wage has not kept up with productivity. Minimum wage should be well above $15. Some of you morans actually believe that there should be no minimum wage. And I'm sure your'e aware that there are people living on minimum wage who have to choose between food and rent. But those lazy fuckers better not use your tax dollars for welfare.
>>69311770
While I kind of agree with the troubleshooting jobs...
>Painters can't be replaced, too complex for a robot
>Asphalt workers can't be replaced
These are easily automated. At the very least they could be run with a single person monitoring an automated system.
>>69303480
Raising it to $15 is fucking stupid.
It should have been raised in line with inflation every 1-3years since the 80s, but your corps got greedy and lobbied (bribed) your political system into stalling the hikes for so long that now everyone is fucked.
Corporations are fucked because they're going to take a huge hit down the road when political pressure forces a large minimum wage hike.
Minimum wage earners are fucked because they're all going to get fired because companies won't be able to afford a large payroll bump.
Small businesses are fucked because they won't have the spare cash to absorb the bump at all.
Regular people are fucked because the lack of minimum wage increases has caused all wages to stagnate, so they're getting fucked now and will get fucked again when they get made redundant because everyone has to rescale their payroll to make their skilled jobs more desirable than working at McDonalds.
Everything is fucked for you now.
Your country has a top ten GPDpc economy, yet min wage earners earn less than half of what they do in my country. This is why you never, ever, ever, ever allow corporations or corporate proxies to make political donations.
>>69303480
>the employee with the shitty attitude got fired
Sounds right.
>>69312051
Don't live with anyone.
You're shareholders guaranteed take it easy. Wait until you get fired. Woe to the slave.
>lol
>>69303480
Absolutely not within the scope of the powers designated to the federal government by the Constitution. Up to the states or preferably unregulated altogether.
>>69311538
If everybody learned these skills and it became the new norm, do you think the employers would pay the average employee more?
>>69303480
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJPG3Ky2NK8
destroy islam first
>>69312273
I don't think you do. You just let the people die, and blame something else. If anything, it makes for a good lynching on jewish enemies.
I think it's great. It pushes expenses back onto businesses instead of the taxpayers. Walmart shouldn't be able to get so much money from the government for paying crap wages to its workers. A wage increase could mean cutting down on welfare programs, as people will be able to make enough to afford the basics without government assistance.
>>69304089
I realize that raising the minimum wage is unrealistic, but I support it anyway so that companies will be encouraged to automate. It's the way of the future.
>>69312562
That is because productivity is enhanced not by more skilled workers, but by automation. You can't pay people more because computers are doing all the work for them.
If everyone gets paid more then everything starts to cost more
>>69312592
australia with a real post, whoda thunk
>>69303480
I live in NY, where they are potentially going to pass legislation for the higher minimum wage. I make more than minimum, but the wage hike would be a raise. It hasn't passed yet, but my employer has already increased our workload in anticipation of the wage hike.
They openly stated that staff will be expected to "earn" their keep, and that they will begin to weed out staff that underperform.
At the very least the raise will make work even shittier, and jobs harder to keep/find. All because niggers want to turn a McJob into a career. I don't make much money but I live within my means and I like my job. If I want to make more money and deal with more bullshit I could just get a job elsewhere. Now I don't have a choice and I get to struggle to keep a job I've held for years.
>>69312980
Businesses run the economy. If you don't subsidize their profits they will move elsewhere.
>>69308257
You won't and your taxes will go up, too.
Progress!
>>69312933
>If everybody learned these skills and it became the new norm
A pointless hypothetical.
There have always been and will always be bottom feeders and toilet scrubbers who aspire to nothing in life.
I'm not saying absolutely everyone should do exactly as I do I'm just saying their opinion is worth less than dirt and they do not deserve anything because they don't work for anything.
>>69312562
Gee anon what could have possibly have happened in the late 70s to have caused that.
I have no idea, let me sit here on my computer on the internet and be stumped.
>>69303480
Its extremely difficult to find a full-time job in a minimum wage position because companies can't afford to provude benefits to employees that work fulltime. They'd rather hire two people two work twenty hours each than pay one person to work forty. Its only gonna get much worse when minimum wage goes up more.
>>69305026
There is more than enough to go around for amerifats and other assorted westerners, because we're top of the production pile and people who live in our societies own everything.
The people who will starve and are already starving are third world fucks in Africa and India.
>>69313001
Except this is precisely what you must do. We failed to do it with computers thus far, we should learn our lesson, else automation will exacerbate the problem. Where do the profits go when you're not paying the worker for their increased productivity?
>>69312980
>>69312995
this kills new businesses, agriculture, and smaller businesses to name a few. walmart is shit, and they can take the decrease in profit margin because their costs of production are so fucking low. No one wants to fucking get stuff from big box stores. they fucking suck.
>>69313085
>waahh I'm expected to actually work
Why not get a new minimum wage job (now that that's going to increase and everything) so you won't have to work as hard?
>>69312736
A neet that lives all alone shitposting all night with no real money or self worth? Honestly i sorry for you. Like what do you even do all day? Whats important, whats worthwhile for you? Why do you even exist?
>now that i think about it, why is a neet shitposting in a thread about jobs and salaries?
That jealousy must be eating you alive. I mean that not in the cruelest, but in the sadest way.
>>69306036
Inflation has been higher than wages for almost 40 years.
A wage and a job that once could support a family now can't even pay for a single person.
The problem isn't the wages paid to people. It's the amount of currency created.
>>69313323
Responsibility of a CEO/Growth of your # of employees in Fortune 500 companies mirrors that graph I would bet.
>>69313323
CEOs would have to be paid like billions each year if it all went to their pay though.
Raising the minimum wage will result in one or more of the following:
1. Increasing the take-home pay of the working poor supporting themselves and families on such employment.
2. Reducing the rolls of welfare recipients by pushing their working incomes above poverty thresholds.
3. Clearing the market of less qualified, unexperienced, and younger applicants in lieu if the kind of people in #1 who will yield greater productivity, helping the economy.
4. Increasing aggregate demand from the multiplier as more of the share of the national income goes back to economic classes with the highest propensity to consume, helping the economy.
5. Encouraging accelerated automation which will yield greater productivity, helping the economy and making the Universal Basic Income more politically viable.
I don't see any downsides.
>>69303480
Then I had better get a raise to $25/hr. My job is much more difficult than flipping burgers.
>>69307066
You've obviously never worked in a job that was downsizing.
They give employees tasks that generally takes two individuals to complete, and they give you half the time to do it. The quality of services goes to shit in these places.
>>69313360
I actually do work you faggot, 50+ hours a week most of the time. Now I have to fill out paperwork at the end of my shift to "verify" I did my work because greedy faggots think they should live in NYC making minimum wage. All this does is make employees more disposable and jobs even shittier.
>>69309096
>Raising the minimum wage is a very large cause of inflation as the market responds to it.
The monetary policy that constantly devalues our currency is the cause of raising prices, falling value and higher wages that buy less.
> Have to pay for good employees so get rid of the shit ones.
> Fastfood resteraunts can finally expand menu options and quality, since the only thing that ever dictated either was the lowest common denominator of ex-parolees and niggers.
> The fastfood war happens heightening competition even further, spurring even more progress.
> Taco Bell wins.
> We Demolition Man now.
>>69313520
>Then I had better get a raise to $25/hr. My job is much more difficult than flipping burgers.
Maybe.
Flipping burgers is more difficult than sucking shit out of a porta-poties but people that do that job get paid more.
It's almost as if the difficulty of a job wasn't the only factor in wages within the economy.
>>69313509
Holy shit. Every single point you made has a direct negative consequence if you're not too retarded and in denial to actually use your brain and think about it.
>>69313892
Heating up frozen food isn't hard. You still manage to find a way to fuck it up, too.
>>69313166
I don't disagree with you in the least (niggers by and large are a worthless subspecies), and I neglected to say you have your head screwed on straight and are moving upwards by your own perseverance and work ethic. Good on you.
With that said, if you don't think the shekelholders at the top (jews) are fucking over the goyim (white and black alike), I don't know what to tell you. The Jew comes in many forms, not always the poor SJW college student. They're harvesting the wealth of America while the rest of us stay underfed. We're approaching a Dust Bowl-type situation, metaphorically speaking.
Before you form any opinions of me, i'm a 30+yo college graduate with long successful career.
>>69314020
>Heating up frozen food isn't hard. You still manage to find a way to fuck it up, too.
Which means what exactly?
>>69313892
I work in manufacturing, making useful things that many people use everyday. I used to work in fast food when I was in high school, so I know exactly what it's like.
>>69314083
It means you're a fucking idiot and you don't come close to deserving $15/hr.
>>69314028
>>With that said, if you don't think the shekelholders at the top (jews) are fucking over the goyim (white and black alike), I don't know what to tell you
Of course.
All companies are out to make money by any means necessary and usually the quickest ways are fucking the customers or fucking the employees.
The point I'm making is that it's much hard to get fucked if you refuse to bend over.
>>69314212
Maybe nobody deserves anything and capitalism isn't an arbiter of justice and morality? Maybe it all comes down to power bargaining and the Art of the Deal.
>>69313999
I kowtow before the might of your trips.
>>69303480
I'll be straight with you; I worked as an industrial engineer for a couple years, so I have first hand experience with wage increases.
The jobs go away in a proportion with how much the increase is.
I did work at a union plant; every 6 months, wage increase to counter inflation. Unfortunately, the wage increases at a rate faster than the capital rate for automation equipment, so every 6 months we'd review our automation projects and as soon as line 6 or wherever became a net positive to automate, we did it. It's a natural reaction; people/companies/everything cuts costs. That's not capitalism, that's every single living entity's nature, down to bacteria.
The luxury of the job I had was that I could do an economic analysis of our equipment market in relation to our labor costs and determine what lines would be automated and when; essentially, when the schedule for increases is clear, then your job is on the chopping block eventually. This isn't a cycle you can break via laws, because it's not a cycle for corporations or even humans; like bacteria, that's the way things are. Entropy. Badabing, badaboom.
If you want to advocate for the "little guy" in the employer-employee relationship, put the fight where it should be: on the Fed. If the net amount of dollars in the market were actually decreased, then that minimum wage hour would get you 4 gallons of milk instead of 2, while also preserving the job markets.
In short: I know that wage hikes remove jobs; aiding in that process is my existence.
>>69313509
>1. Increasing the take-home pay of the working poor supporting themselves and families on such employment.
the "working" poor. I understand that the poor have few incentives to work, but i don't think 15 dorrahs an hour is going to do much. Poverty has become more of a social and cultural issue. Working won't be easier, working won't be more respectable, working will likely still not be beneficial enough for dindu's to get up and work on farms (WHICH DESPERATELY NEED WORKERS).
>2. Reducing the rolls of welfare recipients by pushing their working incomes above poverty thresholds.
see 1, there isn't enough incentive. I really doubt raising the minimum wage will change the culture. For a group of poor people of an undefined size, yes. For another group of poor people, no.
>3. Clearing the market of less qualified, unexperienced, and younger applicants in lieu if the kind of people in #1 who will yield greater productivity, helping the economy.
This makes it harder for those positively affected by 1 & 2. High skill workers (those kids that have useless degrees) will get these jobs first. High skill workers defer to low skill jobs and displace low skill workers during times of economic contraction/hardship. This is inefficient and a waste of human capital / productivity
>4. Increasing aggregate demand from the multiplier as more of the share of the national income goes back to economic classes with the highest propensity to consume, helping the economy.
I agree, however i don't know how large the benefit is relative to the costs.
>5. Encouraging accelerated automation which will yield greater productivity, helping the economy and making the Universal Basic Income more politically viable.
not enough change in cost (i bet). You know what will be more likely to happen? The big box stores make more automated checkouts. The small businesses are stuck with the higher wages and decreased profit margins.
>>69314473
How did you come to that conclusion? Come back when you can argue outside of memes and parroted lines.
>>69314473
Efficiency and freedom are literally moral outcomes. They also produce wealth, which in turn legitimize the notion that they are ideals that should be upheld. Deal with it.
>>69308691
>the world works like my economics class
In reality Americans have standards and Mexicans and Chinese don't so we suffer because they bred like rats but retard economists insist its for our own good to compete with them on equal footing
>>69313327
>this kills agriculture
>implying farmers won't just continue paying illegal Mexicans under the table to pick melons
>>69313409
I do what I want all day everyday. I know that's an alien concept to someone who derives their self worth from being a doormat.
>act like a retard, be surprised when you get called out
Nice try Tom Sawyer.
>>69314212
>It means you're a fucking idiot and you don't come close to deserving $15/hr.
But you don't know anything about my training, education, experience or field of work.
I'm an atheist (best label as I suppose a god COULD exist, but I really, really fucking doubt it and have no problem saying religion is absurd) and my best friend is a pretty big Christian. We used to argue about it all the time when we were younger, almost always while getting drunk. Now that we're in our 30s, it rarely comes up, and if we do discuss it, it's totally civil and consists of us making points and rebuttals. I think he believes in fairy tales and want him to be more rational, he thinks I'm missing out and worries about where I'm going after I die. The basis for both of us is that we care about the other. I love the guy like a brother.
As long as the person isn't a retarded muslim, there's no reason people with different ways of thinking can't get along. As you mature, you'll probably come to agree with this.
>>69314498
>I did work at a union plant; every 6 months, wage increase to counter inflation. Unfortunately, the wage increases at a rate faster than the capital rate for automation equipment, so every 6 months we'd review our automation projects and as soon as line 6 or wherever became a net positive to automate, we did it. It's a natural reaction; people/companies/everything cuts costs. That's not capitalism, that's every single living entity's nature, down to bacteria.
You make that sound like a bad thing. Why would anyone actually want to work?
>>69313124
Don't forget the cost of living going up
>>69314806
Your comment is misleading because increasing the minimum wage doesn't allow teens and young adults to compete with middle age adults with more experience.
By free market minimum wage, companies who want to hire young/unskilled labor can and will at a cheaper cost than middle aged/experienced/unskilled labor.
The minimum wage is being pegged to cost of living. Teens have zero expenses - they live at home and want wages for recreational reasoning. Middle aged workers have kids - a huge expense, assuming that a nonskilled middle age worker is living in section 8 housing and dependent on food stamps.
For the record, I'm a college grad with a decent paying job so I don't really have a horse in this race except being concerned as to how my consumer dollars are spent on labor costs.
>>69314842
What are you going to do with these illegals. They shouldn't be here. They keep the wages of low skill workers low. Get rid of illegals and low skill wages should rise across the board. Problem solved.
>>69314857
How the hell do you "do whatever you want" without money? Neetbux only goes so far.
>neet calling others retarded but cant into logic
>>69308135
Wawa is the best.
>>69313559
>industry attached to real estate
Tell me about it. I'm doing the work of what used to be at least a half dozen people. I actually give a shit about the customers, but I still can't keep up with demand and offer the extra niceties/services we used to.
>>69314408
How do people, as a group, combat this backroom/informal collusion then? Refuse to work? I get the impression we are on the same side, just possibly differ on the remedy.
Even then, I'll digress that raising wages won't mean the people that can afford it will accept the shortfall. They'll jew-loophole their taxes or pass the cost onto the consumer or fire managers or cut benefits or fire close-to-retirement employees or whatever. Thing is, even if you impose higher min wages, that doesn't mean the company will make the difference up where you want it to be.
As I stated above, the half-dozen people that got let go weren't terrible employees, just not as good as me. Certainly they shouldn't be relegated to burger flipping or unemployment just because their success metrics weren't what my employers were looking at when they looked at an employee ID and a salary and decided to let them go.
>>69305482
Pretty much just described the retail/sales/fast food job market here in Australia, where we have something like a $17 minimum wage
>>69304083
get a new job its not the states or governments problem its yours you choose to work for a shitty company or you dont have many responsibilities get some of those, im not paying for your shitty decisions.
>>69315226
>How do people, as a group, combat this backroom/informal collusion then? Refuse to work?
Know their value and refuse to work for any less. Or, on the other side of the coin, know when you're not entitled to more because your value doesn't justify it.
That's really all it boils down to.
People are constantly over or underestimating their value which leads to being being fired or jewed out of wages respectively.
>>69315376
>im not paying for your shitty decisions
But you'll sit idly by as you pay for the government's shitty decisions?
>>69303480
As someone that lives in CA and worked 40 hours a week at $15/h 6 months ago, its shit. The taxes negate the raise over $13.5/h. The problem is the cost of living, the dollar isn't worth shit and I could barely afford my truck payment and food, thats it fuck saving, fuck housing, fuck leisure, super fuck medical. Now I take home double what I was and it can pay my rent, truck, groceries, vehicle repairs, further schooling, ect.
23 year old btw
>>69315022
You wouldn't jump to defend fast food plebs if you weren't one.
>>69315512
A simple answer, but how do you determine those values? Observation would suggest that the "free market value" of any individual's labor is skewed downward. Some deserve it, some don't.
>>69315703
You gotta move or get a better job senpai. People say they're moving to these high income / high cost areas with shitty skills and I just get confused. not saying you're one of them. Good luck.
>>69303480
DUDE WEED LMAO
>>69315201
Good money management and finding awesome deals on the internet.
You win. I know understand how the first poster felt.
>>69315132
Well that's part of it. No one or thing wants to work; they just have to. The whole "expend energy to get a greater amount back," schtick. Hell, I don't want to work, but it lets me invest my money for supplementary earnings and savings growth, because, like anyone else, I'm getting what I need out of the job: value to exchange for goods. That's the only reason to not do things for free.
Anyway, I got paid only on the condition that my projects reduced costs in their scope. If I didn't provide value, I didn't get paid. Same idea applies to all jobs, really. No one wants to pay you to stand around doing nothing (whether it's behind a counter or in a welfare line), and if you can't provide value worth $15/hr, then it's on you. Legislating it to be so is a self-destructive move, because it just makes my job easier.
>>69315512
>>69315873
nevermind. As soon as I posted, I think see what you're saying. It's a mindset/cultural change that lies outside of economics (as numbers), but both has an effect on the economy and can't be quantified.
Which means the baseline argument shouldn't be about economics at all. A min wage hike is immaterial.
>>69314498
>If the net amount of dollars in the market were actually decreased, then that minimum wage hour would get you 4 gallons of milk instead of 2, while also preserving the job markets
wouldn't this slow down business investment and production (have us lose jobs) after a while? I don't see this as a monetary issue so much as a fiscal one. please enlighten me
>>69315905
People always say "move" but I don't really get why. How do move if you are broke? Where do you move to?
Its not like you can just run your finger along a map, randomly pick a city, move there and find a high paying job.
>>69315905
I work at a different place now and I make about $53k a year but its not what I would start a family with, the state is just too expensive, min wage is $10/h here and they just passed the $15/h. They just keep inflating the dollar so no one actually progresses. Working to get the fuck out of here.
i literally support raising it purely because it incentivizes corporations to automate, thus accelerating us to the future
prove my logic wrong, lolbertarians
>>69314714
>Efficiency and freedom are literally moral outcomes.
Sup God, how's Jesus doing? Did you and him enjoy Palm Sunday?
Freedom implies a frictionless economy but we don't live in such a perfect theoretical environment and the actions that freedom would allow may or may not be desirable even if we did. Likewise, efficiency in reaching an end tells us nothing about whether that end is desirable or not.
>>69314603
This seems more like an argument from degree not direction. I guess we'll find out how the behavioral economics shake out after CA's new law has been in effect for a couple of years.
>>69314842
This is a good example of a practice that is extremely efficient and "freer" in terms of the POV of employer and his illegal workers, but is it moral?
>>69316094
The system probably deserves to collapse on itself and I thank you for aiding in the process.
I'm currently working in a industry full of layoffs (oilfield)
I can't speak for all companies, but in mine where some 40% of workers were laid off, the 60% remaining are the ones who actually gave a shit to begin with. I'm not even worried, if I did get laid off or the company went bankrupt, I have enough connections now who know how I out work most other idiots that I can still find something.
People who suck at their job deserve to be laid off, good fucking riddance.
>>69316347
Gimme odds on which of the following will eventually happen?
A. Gilded Age 2.0
B. Technocratic Socialist Paradise
I put them at 60%A / 40%B
>>69316198
Exactly.
It's all about looking at the context and figuring out what you personally want/need/deserve and getting to the point where you earn it.
If you need that $15 /hr wage then find out why you're valued below that now and fix it rather than just asking for more money for no reason.
There have been several times where I'd just flat out asked why I'm paid what I am and how I can make that number go up. Employers aren't allergic to giving raises as long as they're justified.
MINIMUM WAGE NEEDS TO GO UP BUT LETS NOT GET CRAZY AND JUST BASICALLY DOUBLE IT.
GO TO 10$ AN HOUR AFTER ALL TAXES OUT, REGARDLESS OF WHAT STATE YOU ARE IN. PUTTING A 10 DOLLAR BILL INTO YOUR POCKET EVERY HOUR GUARANTEED IS A MUCH BETTER FEELING THAN THE 6 OR 7 YOU TAKE HOME NOW AND ITS NOT A CRAZY HIKE TO 15 LIKE PEOPLE WANT
>>69303480
Minimum wage in Germany is 8,50€
The euro got weaker over the last few years and is worth only a little more than the dollar
But you get much more for one dollar in america than for one euro in Germany
Everything is fuckin cheap in Burgerland
Got relatives in new York, they always bring clothes as presents for their once a year visit
Get Levis jeans for 40$ that would cost 90€ in Germany
Your food is cheaper
your houses are cheap as fuck, no stones or concrete, except for the fundament, just fuckin wood
EVERYTHING IS SO FUCKIN CHEAP!
If you're a burger and you cant live like a king, you're a stupid cuck
>>69303480
On one hand, studies of the minimum wage haven't generally shown it to reduce employment.
On the other hand, an increase to $15 is relatively large and so those studies might not be applicable.
On the one hand increasing the minimum wage will increase business costs.
On the other hand many businesses are running strong profits and are just sitting on the money or buying back shares, etc, so they may just eat the cost. It's also possible that companies tend to minimize the size of their labor force while trying to meet some profit target, in which case their current labor demand will remain optimal.
On the one hand, a wage increase will increase consumption, leading to increased output and possibly increased employment.
On the other hand, it can also increase inflation.
On the other other hand, an increase in inflation will reduce the real levels of indebtedness.
On the other other other hand, there are frictions and psychological effects caused by inflation that may be detrimental to the economy.
A more moderate or phased-in increase in the minimum wage is probably a better idea.
Also fuck states. States are the most disgusting and corrupt governments in the country.
>>69316702
Housing prices vary wildly in the US. Depends heavily where you live. In the middle of nowhere you can get a big house with lots of land for 150k or less.
In major cities like LA and New York you can get what is basically a shack with no yard and no space for 7 figures.
>>69316669
im a richfag so either way i become the corrupt gilded capitalist or i simply am forced to share the wealth in said technocratic utopia
me: 1 you: 0
>>69316747
Phased-in how?
This law in CA will raise the minimum by like 50 cents a year for like 10 years until it hits 15 bucks.
>>69303480
automation will be replacing the $15 dolla an hr so I can buy more drugs crowd soon enough.
>>69316858
>>69313559
>>69307066
Its called Hybrid jobs. And its becoming increasingly more common.
MOST highly successful companies do it a lot.
Why pay 5 people X to do 5 different jobs when you can pay 2 people X to do 5 different jobs?
Its only going to get worse. Only knowing how to do one thing really well won't be enough sooner than anyone wants to admit.
>>69316674
Well, thank you for the engaging discussion and I wish you luck in future endeavors. You gave me something to think about.
I bid you good evening. I'm in the middle of a week's vacation but still have to go to bed at some point.
>>69316230
Well you have to look at it in terms of the utilization of capital assets and incentivizing investment instead of liquidity for large entities, private individuals or corporations included.
Yes, it will stagnate the growth of current expenditures for such things like milk or other products, but it also allows these entities to make expansions laterally (new ventures) versus vertically (increasing overhead and labor on current ventures). So your 401k that's been holding securities is ran by the fund's manager that sees "hey, these investments are self-diversifying, thus we can remain at the same return rate while decreasing the risk of our portfolio." This translates to you, the retirement fund owner, to be better equipped in your own personal wealth because you are more insulated from losses on your investment. This, of course, being on side of this thousand sided coin.
So it does slow down rapid changes in production increase, but also grants the market, as a whole, more speculative capability without the increased risk. And if inflation is decreased/negated, that disincentivizes the holding of liquid cash, going back to money velocity as the general market driver, rather than relying solely on the time value of money factor.
>>69317262
Good talk, anon.
>>69316358
>This seems more like an argument from degree not direction
i don't know what you meme by this. my plan would be >>69312377
I don't see raising the minimum wage at the expense of new smaller businesses who can't get the tiny production costs of big businesses. I know that it might start a trade war, but I don't see the US losing one of those.
>>69316339
>$53k a year but its not what I would start a family with
sad feel
>Working to get the fuck out of here.
best wishes, Ganbare!
>>69316674
I think it depends a lot on where you work. A lot of companies ARE allergic to raises.
>>69312562
>Wage increase with productivity ends exactly when dollar ceases to be backed by gold
>>69317272
>incentivizing investment instead of liquidity for large entities, private individuals or corporations included
this appeals to me. I'd love to look into this for research.
>>69316669
it'll be A & B simultaneously. No memes.
>>69317600
oh, and thank >>69317272 (you)
>>69303480
Minimum wage is objectively bad.
The logic behind price floors and ceilings is nonsensical for the do-gooders and utterly malicious in regard to the special interests that understand what placing a price floor on labor actually does.
>>69317450
If you ask an employer what you need to do to get a raise they will either say "do X Y and Z" or "we don't give raises" (more likely they'll say some roundabout bullshit like "well we give you annual reviews and if you meet some undefined goals we'll consider it" take that as a "no")
If you do X Y and Z and they still don't give you a raise just tell them to fuck themselves and walk out knowing they're losing a good employee while you only lost a shitty job that didn't value you enough.
Every employer wants good employees and they will do what they can (within reason) to keep them. If you demonstrate that you are one such employee and they demonstrate that they don't give a shit then you can do much better than them.
>>69317663
Pretty vague.
>>69317835
Oh and it should go without saying that, if they tell you they don't give raises, you should start job hunting for someone who does.
A job without mobility is absolutely worthless.
>>69317835
>>69317959
That sounds like it would take a lot of job hopping. And a lot of luck.
>>69317842
What is? When you put a price floor on something you're either hurt due to not being able to buy/sell at a competitive price or you're unaffected due to not being in the market for whatever is being changed.
If I want to sell my labor for $7 an hour to beat other people in the labor market out and make my labor more desirable to buyers, a minimum wage literally makes it illegal for me to do that.
>>69318124
>That sounds like it would take a lot of job hopping.
There's a reason company loyalty is plummeting.
Gold watch retirement doesn't even exist anymore because employers don't value their employees.
>And a lot of luck.
Fortune favors the bold.
>>69318195
Minimum wage is already unsustainable. Why would you ever want to get paid even less?
>>69318338
Fortune favors the connected.
>>69317600
Well in that case, let me rephrase it to disinflation to be more precise. Deflation beyond anything marginal does lead to debt becoming more risky, due to the value of those negative dollarydoos being increased. It's that slow switch from our current trend, then below zero, then back to zero and no more fucking around that I'm advocating for.
If you'd like a good book for the topic, I learned most of what I know what studying for a financial planner accreditation, but "Nee Ideas from Dead Economists" is a healthy start and googling some of the general concepts therein will lead you in the right direction. Although it sounds like you've already made it past that point.
>>69318396
And how do you suppose connections are forged, anon?
>>69318374
Because being employed > being unemployed? Income > 0 income? That's so blatantly obvious. If I can get hired at a lower wage and can't be hired at a higher one, and income is important to me, I take the lower wage. You want to literally make it illegal for me to do so - fuck you.
>>69303480
economics 101 taught me this is a fucking retarded idea
>>69318467
Joining a Fraternity. Being born to the right parents. Getting lucky.
Can't think of much that involved being bold.
>>69305137
>Development costs, hardware costs, installation costs, training costs & maintenance costs combined are actually very high.
I really can't imagine why this would be the case. It's just a shit tier computer connected to a shit tier touchscreen running simple software.
>>69318503
I still don't get the logic. No where in America is it hard to get a minimum wage job. If ANY pay is good enough, you don't even need a job. Just do odd work around your town. Repair fences. Paint. Garden. Whatever. Income is never hard to get.
A high quality of living is.
>>69303804
I'd rather a basic income with no minimum wage personally tbh fam.
>>69318581
No, anon.
They're forged by getting off your ass and meeting people.
I'm friends with the dean of my school just because I talked to him and we helped each other with some stuff. He actually listens to my input on my own program of studies simply because I know him. You can bet your fucking ass he's going to be one of the first names on my resume when I graduate.
There's no point in me tell you this stuff though since you're obviously a defeatist who's looking for any reason but his own laziness to explain why you're not a winner.
>>69318673
You're fucking retarded and missing the point.
>>69318874
Substantial rhetoric.
Seriously though, you are a faggot.
(exits thread)
>>69318673
>I don't get the logic
You don't get the logic of me possibly wanting to wash floors for $5-$7 an hour rather than work a customer service job or something else I don't like, and being upset that you literally make it illegal for me to do so, since rather than hire a different person to do that job instead they just have someone else do it or do it themselves?
Go fuck yourself.
>Repair fences. Paint. Garden.
That's called the underground economy - the same people you petition to make it illegal for me to work at a lower wage are the people who also make it illegal for me to do odd jobs for people for cash, since it's not taxable.
Literally go fuck yourself.
>>69318966
Illegal? No one is going to throw you in jail for doing odd jobs around town. If thats how you want to make a living, you can do it easily, even though the quality of that living will be dogshit.
And no, I don't get the idea of wanting to make pennies doing one garbage job as opposed to twice as much doing another garbage job.
If you want a different minimum wage job, then get it. If the pay is that shit, who are you even competing against? If you can't get a job washing floors you have some major personal problems.
Thats your main complaint? Because if so, its a very petty reason to be against minimum wage.
>>69318803
Well I'm glad your conversation with me could make you feel good about yourself.
>>69318401
>"Nee Ideas from Dead Economists" is a healthy start
I'll compare it to "The Worldly Philosophers" - recommended by my macro prof for leisure
>>69319294
>No one is going to throw you in jail for doing odd jobs around town
They literally can and do.
https://consumerjungle.org/jungle-talk/under-the-table
It is *literally* illegal because of nanny-statist pricks like you.
It *doesn't matter* if you "don't get it" - I may want to and others *do* want to, and you want to make it *ILLEGAL* for them. You're a fucking faggot.
If you offer yourself at a lower price, people are more likely to hire *YOU* if you're otherwise normal compared to someone else who wants higher pay. It's basic fucking supply and demand - if I want a job and someone else wants a job, and I'm willing to work for less then ceteris paribus I'm going to get the job.
The *FREEDOM* factor is the biggest - you literally want to make it illegal for me to work for whatever wage I fucking want to. You're a nanny-statist faggot and should fucking kill yourself.
>>69319320
Fuck yeah, Heilbroner is entertaining stuff. I've only read "behind the veil of economics" by him, but I'll give your suggestion a read. Don't necessarily agree with everything but it's not like he would think much of me anyway.
>>69311845
You seem to have confused capitalism for statism, friendo. Odd considering the two are practically anathema to each other.
>>69319294
>Well I'm glad your conversation with me could make you feel good about yourself.
I feel good about myself without bottom feeders like you making your existence known. That doesn't make me feel better it just makes me feel bad for you.
You're selling yourself short and giving up on things before you try. Life's gonna suck if you keep that up.
ja ne~
Fascist fucking faggot queers
>>69319653
The way you type is kind douchebaggy.
And I get it. You want to be able to do anything and anything that gets in your way makes you hostile and type like a douchebag. Its a pretty common problem. I don't think there is a cure though.
And your link straight up says odd jobs are perfectly legal. You only need to worry about reporting your earnings on them if you make a lot. Which is obvious.
>>69319760
You make a lot of assumptions.
>>69305137
And how fuckin shit are they. I wish they'd stop trying to push maccas as some healthy alternative in Aus, it's getting ridiculous.
>>69320073
>You make a lot of assumptions.
I've had several friends like you. Hell, even my brother is that way.
The "the whole system is rigged and I was born under a shitty star so why bother" attitude is way too common.
If you seriously think connections come entirely from luck and money then you're pathetically disillusioned and in desperate need of a wake up call.
>>69303480
Make a law that grants employees immunity from being fired after a wage increase for up to a year.
And a ban on price raises
Take that capitalist scum
>I think it should be up to the states to decide.
Nonsense, but it would be just as sensible to set the Minimum wage throughout the USA to $15 as it would be to set it to a unified minimum wage throughout all of Europe. Just watch as Eastern Europe collapses overnight.
Using the same % based living wage calculation, the various factors that determine the minimum wage should be applied to each state, or even sub provinces of the states so as to provide a living wage, for each respective community, rather than a broad blanket of X amount which will be different for those in Cities, Urban Area's and the countryside.
Adjust it each year, based on the calculation. The greatest fear would be if the calculation was fucked with to fall behind the speed of inflation rather than keeping up with it.
>>69303480
Minimum wages don't help anything. Look at the countries leftists like: Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Switzerland; none of them have a minimum wage since all it does is limit businesses from hiring more people. There is no good minimum wage, every country that has one eventually has economic problems because of it.
>>69303480
Will we all get a raise that is double our wage to still be able to buy things when prices rise?
>>69320415
You should probably add onto that
>no bankruptcies allowed for employers for that year
>no restructuring or relocation of production for a year
Just to really stick it to those dirty capitalists! Because, legislating every aspect of behavior always works out so well.
I have absolutely no problem with cheeseburgers and shitty walmart products becoming more expensive.
>>69318717
I think the consensus is that financial assistance would disappear if somewhere implemented basic income. Probably wouldn't even cost that much more at that point.
>>69321746
That's the idea. You get a small stipend from the state every month and apart from that you're on your own.
>>69303480
It's not a great policy option for the reason the cartoon captures and other problems. Better ways to help the poor would be to cut their taxes, increase certain income tax credits, or lower the cost of living. The problem is that most dummies who vote don't understand those issues on a visceral level like saying "hur durh more moneyz!"
>>69312379
That's pretty sweet dude. I'm actually at 17.32 because night shifts but my job pays my bills for now and it's entry level anyway for the company I'm at.
I plan on moving out of this state anyway before the $15 minimum law fully kicks in. I love California, but sadly the politics have destroyed my home, and I will never forgive the leftists for it. I'll probably land somewhere in Arizona or nevada, though anywhere in the south would be ok by me too, since I'm looking for cheap cost of living and low taxes.
>>69310180
You had to go to school to make 17.25 on nights? I make that already with an entry level factory position after like 6 months.
>>69320556
The countries you name all have high unemployment insurance. That is effectively like a minimum wage, because no one takes a job to make less than unemployment benefits.
>>69323235
I'm not finished with school yet, however connections I made from it landed me the job, which is entry level.
Once I finish school I'll be making much more.
>>69305137
New technology is always bad St first
>>69303480
>$15 an hour
absolutely not. trump's plan to lower taxes across the board sounds far more plausible.
Accept slave wages or else, citizen
>>69308764
Until they raise the bar so the same people fall under the poverty line and can get their gibsmedat.
>>69305137
I work at mcdonalds and the problem with the kiosk is that most people are too stupid to use them...
People use the line anyways because the kiosk people stand there for 10 minutes just to buy a single hamburger.
Can I make a crazy suggestion?
Raise the minimum wage to $50, temporarily subsidize small and medium businesses with printed money until inflation does its job, subsidize individual savings in line with inflation. Enact capital controls so nobody can pull their money out until the inflationary period is over.
Prices will skyrocket, but they'll still be restrained by competition, and it will normalize. Wages will renormalize for high earners.
When all is said and done, the hundreds of billions of dollars sitting in corporate savings will be released into the economy, and prices will normalize into a lower profit point.
Give competition a kickstart
>>69325133
Labor has a finite value. You are just a cog in the system. Get the fuck over it.
>>69325674
I say this in full recognition of the fact this won't do jack squat to actually improve the lives of minimum wage earners.
What it will do is get corporate savings back into the economy.
I also say this with a different ID
>>69325892
or not
americans are jews
disgusting animals
no offense to israel
>>69303480
It is up to the states and when it doesn't pan out in commiefornia everyone will stop crying about it. Unskilled workers don't deserve $15 dollars an hour. I swear I will get my old ass a job as a wal-mart greeter if it comes to Oregon, though.
>>69313323
investors
your retirement fund
>>69313179
For those of us who might not know, could you spell it out? Thanks.
>>69303480
Best part of the new California proposal is that unions are exempt from the minimum wage laws, to make them more "competitive", unions can go to a non-union company and tell them if you go Union you can lower your pay
Lots of other Union contracts and government jobs are tied to the minimum wage as it raises their salaries automatically go up, lot of people make $15 now, soon they are minimum wagers, they will want more
Us median household income is $52 grand a year, 2 minimum wage earners at 40 hours a week, will now earn 58 grand a year, more than the average, look at the new middle class, now they get to pay higher taxes, no more earned income credits, no more EBT, Medicaid, no more ObamaCare vouchers, don't qualifiy for low income housing vouchers anymore, no more free school lunch for the kids, no more head start or no cost daycare
Welcome to the real world minimum wagers, your new money will get you less and you will owe more
If you still have a job
