https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUXwDMqjC-A
What are your thoughts on libertarianism and the free market triumphing over socialism once again?
>>69147063
Stand with Rand
Bump for the Bernfags
Rand Paul, at times, makes no sense. I understand what he was saying is metaphorical- but he is implying that under a universal health care system that doctors and hospitals are somehow being taken hostage. From my understanding, is universal healthcare not citizens paying a percentage increase of their income tax towards a healthcare fund- and when they go to the hospital, the government foots the bill with that money?
No candidate has implied that the government would seize healthcare operations away from hospitals.
Is Rand Paul a raving lunatic?
>>69147063
Rand is coming off as a bumbling idiot t.b.h.
>>69147063
This is why socialism will never work and why the United States is doomed within the next 100 years.
>>69148251
Couldn't a Doctor just set up a private practice? Or a group of doctors set up a private hospital? I'm not too familiar with Bernies proposals.
>HURR DURR THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO MAKE USE OF FORCE
t. Randlet
Right, so by the dumb cunt Rand's logic doctors working for the NHS are slaves? What an absolute fucking moron.
>>69148962
Your government has made excellent use of force in the last century, and this one too!
As a Canadian, I can confirm that universal healthcare is literal slavery. We need to free our oppressed doctors from the tyranny of gubment moneh
>>69148962
Not enough force apparently, since you're still allowed to use the internet to browse a super-rightest-nazi-Taiwanese sketch drawing forum
>>69147063
Some of Rand Paul's ideas a good and others are just insane. He's a swiss army knife where half the blades and useful and the other half is aids needless a qtips.
>>69149415
aids needles and qtips*
>>69147063
That argument can be applied to taxes as well. Libertarians are lunatics.
>>69148660
if Bernie wants everyone to have the best healthcare then the only solution is forcing doctors to work for the government and earn whatever they want to pay. No doctor would do that so they would all open up private practices so the only way Bernies plan can work is if he bans private hospitals.
>>69147063
Though technically correct that argument was beyond autistic and is a perfect example of why his campaign fell short.
>>69147063
based rand will have a place in trump's new order
>>69149665
>[..] that the system can offer
[..] that the system can offer
>[..] that the system can offer
[..] that the system can offer
>>69147063
1. What rand said was fucking batshit. The typical conspiracy theorist nonsense immediately discredits him because what he is talking about has never happened before because of healthcare.
2. Sanders is still in the race, and has the dems in a bind. I don't need lectures from a drop out. Perhaps he should go back to being a hypocrite? Like he was with unmanned drones, and liberty.
>>69149528
But taxation IS theft to a certain extent.
>>69147063
So every country in the world has slavery because of a justice system where you have the RIGHT to legal council?
>ohlookitsthismemeagain.svg.png.exe.torrent
>>69149139
our healthcare system isn't that great. There are some places where you can get service reasonably fast, and other places where if you get sick on a week end, you're fucked. People with chronic illnesses also suffer under our system because wait times make it a bitch to get properly diagnosed, I have a friend who is stuck on welfare for this exact reason. People in Quebec also pay out the ass, OUT THE FUCKING ASS for their "free" health care to the point where over half of their earnings are lost to tax.
The only reason we brag about our health care system is because we had the propaganda shoved down our throats that it's great since we started school.
>government can't brain wash you don't be silly
North Koreans weren't fake crying at Kim's funeral, that was all real. It's that easy to be mislead.
>>69150035
No it isn't. It's the price that you pay to live in the most advanced first world country on the planet. You are not entitled to every dime you make.
>>69147063
The fuck is Randlet on about?
If you don't want to treat people for free and want to ask for your own fee from them directly, open a private fucking practise. That's how they do it in countries with free healthcare.
>>69147063
I am a libertarian but if you think this is a valid argument you have autism. We consider K-12 education a right and yet teachers aren't forced to come to work at gunpoint for any salary.
>>69150211
>that's a nice wage you have there
>part of that wage is mine now so I can use it to give it to niggers and spics who will just rape your wife and daughter
>>69150145
This
I've spoken to many Canadians (Michiganfag here) and never once have I heard a good thing about it from the people who actually pay the taxes. On the contrary, all the kids who don't pay taxes have said the opposite out of blindness. We don't need more taxes
>>69147063
>Comparing people who makes 6 figures to slaves
One part of libertarianism that makes no sense to me. Single-payer healthcare isn't perfect, but it is better than what the USA has IMO.
>>69149783
>technically correct
>autistic
Citing a possible outcome to government enforced regulation is autistic?
Should he have said something like "Doctors need to build a wall to stop the police from forcing them to practice medicine?"
Would that have helped you see the light?
>>69150546
>Wahhhh me want everything, but I don't wanna pay for it!
And you call socialists greedy.
>>69150145
>>69149783
>point out shortcoming in idea that erodes freedoms
>get called autistic for thinking too hard
>>69147063
"working for the government is enslavement"
rand paul
both these cucks are slaves
>>69150211
>You are not entitled to every dime you make.
Before World war 1, neither of our countries had an income tax. Now we have a system where inflation is slowly bumping us all into higher and higher tax brackets and people like you think this is the norm.
>>69150546
I hear Somalia is nice this time of year. No taxation, no gun regulation Living the dream, those guys.
>>69148251
No, he's completely correct. Universal healthcare is one thing, but declaring it a Right is different. A Right in American law is something that you are innately entitled to purely by being a citizen. Like a lawyer at a court, it means that you have a RIGHT to a doctor. One MUST be provided for you, no matter the situation.
Ever seen what life is like for public defense attorneys? It's the same thing. It might as well be slavery.
>>69150548
Albertafag here,
The healthcare system is laughable, constant shortages in Surgeons, Physicians, Nurses, and beds because everyone who has a tummy ache can go sit in Emerg and Clog the whole system up like Leftist-Cholesterol. If I didn't have to pay so much in taxes I would definitely support private healthcare.
>>69151124
Somalia actually has pretty strict gun laws, they just can't enforce them.
People in this thread
>RAND PAUL IS INSANE. OMG
>offer no legitimate criticism
Literally "ARE YOU KIDDING ME" guy responses
Reddit, everyone.
>>69151466
Maybe they could if the population paid taxes
>>69147063
This is such a retarded answer. The US offers free fire services without "enslaving" firefighters. We don't "conscript" the guy who drives the fuckin garbage truck. Whether or not you like Bernie, he's not proposing that we force doctors to give free treatment, they would receive compensation for the work they do. Rand is being a little bitch and pushing a logically fallacious argument.
>>69151701
Because it's literally dumb shit he's saying. Nobody would be forcing him to work anywhere. He's strawmanning hard, calling every government employee a slave. (yes, that includes himself, but he's probably too dumb to notice)
And what usually happens when you post a legit anti-trump argument on /pol/?
>ARE YOU KIDDING ME, GO BACK TO R.EDDIT
>>69151029
>US soldiers are totally paid a lot and are allowed the rights of normal US citizens!
>allowing the post powerful body in the world to dictate price and policy is a great idea!
>every government worker is totally happy with their wages. If they don't like it, they can just get a different job!
>>69147063
>everything is literally slavery
>except slavery which isn't so bad
Fucking libertarians
>>69152199
>libertarians
>slavery iz gud, mateys
>>69150908
I should be allowed to vote with my dollar. If I want to help niggers, I can do that through charities and the church. It is not the job of the state to force people to do that.
The state should be as small as possible. It should take care of infrastructure and defence. Everything else, the people themselves should determine through voting with their dollar. If society values welfare, individuals can contribute to it through their own choice.
>>69147063
Did OP even watch the video he posted?
No one is claiming universal healthcare is coming to enslave doctors by kicking in the door in the middle of the night.
Rand is not only citing a doomsday scenario, but an completely unrealistic one at that. Fiction at it's best folks.
Not really a Bern fan, but this is quite the opposite, Rand got BTFO by Sanders.
>>69151295
>A Right in American law is something that you are innately entitled to purely by being a citizen
...which healthcare should be.
Why put someone deep in debt just because they had an injury? If anything, the current system enslaves poor people.
>>69151902
No no no, you don't understand. The garbageman is a slave of the state. By having a job, he is oppressed. [Insert ancap memes here. Use the word "force" as much as possible.]
>>69147063
So I guess Rand Paul is also against taxes.
Because taxes are also "taking and extracting from another person" with "an implied threat of force".
Therefore taxes are a form slavery according to Rand Paul's logic.
>>69151995
its really dumb why didnt he say sanders wants to force the average person to pay for the treatment, thats true legitimately and is more relatable
>>69151759
Oh the population pays taxes alright. Just to warlords. There is a lack of a monopoly of force in Somalia, the issue there isnt taxation.
>>69151995
> calling every government employee a slave
Except that they choose to work for government.
Also if you have right for healthcare, then you as a gigantic faggot would be held in mental aslym, as faggotry has clear symptoms of a disease and also lower the quality of health for others. Njoy.
>>69152524
its funny when libertarians adopt quasi-Marxist beliefs about exploitation of labor
>>69152560
"taxation is theft" is a pretty fundamental principle of Libertarian philosophy, Jan-Klaas.
>>69147063
>Reply
Rand Paul is an idiot comparable with Stefan Molyneux.
>>69152794
did you even read my post
>>69152872
but he wouldn't actually get rid of taxes, if he were to become president, right?
>>69152560
Exactly. In fact, I believe Rand's comment was just a trap for someone to say "but doctors won't be enslaved, they will be paid with tax money!". And Rand would have given the libertarian reply to that.
>>69148251
Let's put it this way... The government makes healthcare a right and provides physicians, but they pay the physicians much less because that's how the government does things ( same with lawyers). You immediately notice that many people change their majors from medicine to research because that is where the money is now. Now no one is left to provide the care(after a while when the older doctors retire or die). Now people sue for their right and win big money from the government. Now the government has made healthcare worse and lost shut loads of taxpayer money to dumbass who thought this was a good thing.
>>69153527
That fucking same idea over and over again... "if you remove the incentive to make money there won't be doctors anymore" is the most retarded statement when it comes to healthcare.
There will still be doctors, excellent ones nevertheless.
>>69149665
Incorrect, in the uk we have private doctors, nhs doctors can also treat private patients
>>69153095
I believe most Libertarians first step plan if they came to power would be to dismantle the federal state and revert to state governments, abolish the military and reduce taxes as much as possible.
Those are all common talking points I've heard from libertarians. I dont know to what extent Rand agrees with that. But I do know he wants to reduce government a lot and let people determine what they consider important by voting with their dollar.
Literally everything is slavery, except slavery which wasn't too bad for black people guys.
>>69153856
>humans are moral beings who act out of an innate sense of justice
Rousseau please.
Sure people would still become doctors, but without the financial incentive, many people wont go into medicine anymore. You'd have a shortage of doctors.
People are egoists, they are selfish. People make choices primarily for their own benefit.
>>69153877
>NHS
>good
Commie, please.
>>69147063
He's right in the sense that it's not a right, that would make what Rand was saying true. However the fact hat we don't have a universal healthcare system is fucking insane. We're the most powerful country in the world, one of the most developed yet we have people dying from fucking diabetes because they don't have access to basic health services. Medicaid is ok if you are unemployed but if you make more than what 15k a year you dorm qualify? It's really insane man. I hope Trump fixes the AHA and gives us al a national health system. Being from Scotland originally I had to go back over to get a procedure done through the NHS because of how absurdly expensive it would have been here. We need to do something about this. But not what Bernie wants cause that old commie is a fucking retard. Help us Obi-Don Trumponi, you're our only hope.
>>69154362
You can have private insurance so you don't have to deal with the NHS amateurs Geert.
To be honest that just makes Rand Paul look like fucking retard or a shill. That is a blatant strawman argument and makes the anti-Berner's look like ignorant white trash.
>>69153527
>>69153856
>>69154362
Medicin is pretty much universally the best paid degree you can get. In countries with universal healthcare, too.
>>69148251
The argument is for the nature of a right, but it's worth noting that a government healthcare payment is nowhere close to a regular payment. The government strong arms hospitals into doing work for dirt cheap, and that trickles down to less money for everyone.
As an example, my dad is an anesthesiologist, part of a private group working for a hospital. They not only don't make money on Medicaid patience, they actually lose it, because they have to pay for all of the medicines they use, plus the CRNAs. Luckily for them, they do more non-Medicaid, and that makes up for it, but let's not pretend that universal healthcare is the same for the people in medicine. A doctor doing all government cases is going to make dramatically less than someone doing all private cases.
>>69154692
Currently, yes. The other dude was arguing that people go into medicine out of altruism, not profit, which I disagree with.
People who want free health care never lived in a country with "free health care".
>>69147063
>implying teachers, professors, cops, firefighters, or mailmen are slaves
>Building roads is slavery
>>69154582
>turning free market jobs into government "civil service"
>unreasonable to call that close to slavery
wew lad
2020: Doctors aren't slaves they're """"""""""""""""""""""""""""civil servants"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" they deserve to get stiffed on the bill because it's reparations for all the black people they overcharged in the past shitlord.
>>69147063
wow, not only sanders is right, but rand paul is semi-retarded
>>69150490
If nobody wanted to be a teacher, then how would the right be guaranteed?
Healthcare is a service, and until automated, requires others to provide it, unlike any other right
>>69155541
what the fuck are you even writting about?
if he wants he can work for the states, if he doesnt want, he can open private clinic
no one is forcing him to do anything
>>69152524
>making others obligated to pay for your 4 double bypass because you won't give up burgers is not a right, nor should it be
>>69148962
KEK
>>69147063
I think Rand's argument is valid, but I think the better argument is that rights, by their nature, only exist in the negative: a right is a right if you start with it and it can only be taken away. Positive rights, those that have to be granted, aren't really rights at all. If there were no society and you were alone, would you have the right to healthcare? If you could provide it yourself, sure, but not from someone else.
Healthcare is a good thing, and everyone should have access to it, but it doesn't meet the definition of a real right by quite a bit.
>>69155312
None of those people provide their services to the American people for free. If every tax payer in the world stopped working, would everyone still have a "right" to any of these things?
In Detroit, people had a right to water. HAD.
Austin Petersen 2016! Libertarian Party 2016!
>>69148660
that's not legal in a socialist country
>>69153856
>People don't need incentives to take on 8 years of expensive debt and shitty residency, they'll do it out of the good of their hearts
When do you graduate highschool buddy?
>>69153527
What the socialist governments does is start to exclusively hire foreigners to be the new doctors
Exclusively hire women to be nurses
Eventually this will result in a collapsing health care system
But who gives a fuck, its free huh
>>69155544
Tell me exactly, what happens when an american needs a doctor but the state can't provide one at the moment?
Because in america, right is something that must be upheld, it's not "optional" in law.
>>69148251
The problem with Bernie/Nordic style thinking is that at a certain point, force/violence IS used to enforce the "right to healthcare." It might not be the physician, it could be the hospital executive. It could be a government administrator. Someone will be punished if they do not provide the healthcare. And punishment means force is being used.
You have to take the logic all the way to the end and you can't half ass it.
>>69156334
they are than placed on waiting list depending on the emergency
you know like every country on continent
>>69151006
>>69150721
>>69151006
His choice of metaphor was just cringe worthy. He should have made his point more directly and simply said that the government has no right to try and control the careers of doctors. It would have played a lot better.
So yea that's why build wall works and abstract philosophical arguments comparing government socialization to slavery does not. I supported Rand but there is no denying that he ran a poor campaign.
>>69156076
This actually leads into another important point. Even if you assume that healthcare is a right, which is a big assumption, that only gets you as far as "it should be available to everyone." But available is a pretty broad concept that doesn't automatically mean free. The water flowing to people's apartments isn't free, after all, but it is there. It's cheap sure, but if you were homeless, it might not be a given. Healthcare has a higher base cost, but then a system already exists to provide it to poor people.
So even at the most favorable interpretation of his logic, Bernie still hasn't proven that universal single-payer healthcare is necessary or a good idea.
>>69156417
>somebody doesn't do the job they were hired to do
>they get fired
TYRANNY I TELLS YOU
>>69147063
post yfw rand steals the nomination
>>69150145
>>69153527
Universal Healthcare here. It's the one good idea socialism ever had. Has to be done right though, Australia is the model to look at not the UK.
>>69156641
300 emergency cases roll into the ER in one hour, but there are only 20/doctors, so not everybody is treated in time
Oh well guess you should have worked harder :^)
I assume Rand took the hippocratic oath, so he should be duty bound by that came to him needing care if he can provide it.
Or did he just pay lip service to that?
>>69147063
>>69156917
Why do you write about things you clearly don't understand?
>>69150490
Nobody said you have a right to be educated
>>69148251
Philosophical consistency is the basis of rationality. If something is wrong at its root it's wrong at its practical extension.
>>69156641
Doctors should be allowed to choose who they treat. The hippocratic oath is bullshit.
If I were a physician, I would not treat muslims. You demanding I do is indeed government Tyranny.
>>69150145
Pretty much this.
While what I am going to say is anecdotal, I am sure a whole lot of Canadians been through the same shit.
When my grandma was on the verge of dying, literally very close to death, the hospital demanded that we had to take her back home. She couldn't even walk and she was in so much pain that she was barely move. My dad fucking flipped shit and literally ripped staff a new one. I honestly thought he was going to kill one of the people working there. Eventually the complied but that was with a lot of bitching involved.
Even with all of this our schools somehow preach how we're so much better than the Americans.
>>69157009
I'm trying to simplify the point that Rand is making. If someone is required to provide that service to you, it's not a right. It's not that hard red-sweden
>>69153856
>excellent ones nevertheless
top kek
Top 2 killers are heart disease and cancer. Good luck surviving from either of those outside of the US.
You've been bamboozled by the Michael Moore film, haven't you?
>>69152426
That's batshit
>>69147063
On this matter, Rand is a total fucking idiot. How is free healthcare comparable to being conscripted?
Anywhere else in the civilized world are doctors "dragged from their doors" to treat people?
>>69147063
Holy fuck Rand Paul is a kook. That's taking the point to the extremes because he has no constructive argument. Now I see why some of you fags worship his dick.
>>69157343
There are no rights which are not guaranteed by the government. Doctors aren't required to provide a service. The government is. If doctors take a job which involves providing medical service, they are required to provide a service - like everyone else who has a job.
>m-muh natural rights!
Yeah, those are just made up as well.
>>69156159
>that's not legal in a socialist country
Several places have two-tier healthcare.
1) The "free" healthcare available to all paid for by tax money. The focus is on critical care over elective procedures and this can lead to wait times for things like joint pain. Second opinions are also harder to get.
2) Private healthcare providers who specialize in MRI services, joint replacement, physiotherapy, cosmetic surgery, and other services that typically have a longer wait time. People who can afford faster care can get it but they actually pay for it.
3) They can travel to other countries for health care (medical tourism).
Canadians can buy a private health insurance that covers them for trips to the American Mayo clinics, as an example. They can supplement their Canadian "free" care by paying $50/month for annual access to the American Mayo Clinic (No deductibles or co-pays). Canadians use this for advanced cancer screening, primarily.
It is funny because Canadians can actually visit the mayo clinic for less than what Americans would pay. This is because the American insurance industry is so corrupt.
>>69157676
Why is it batshit to allow people freedom of choice? To allow the market to determine what people consider important?
Is it because you are a worthless welfare queen with no value?
Look, if you want to help the poor nigs in Africa, you can do that through donations. Explain to me why its the job of the government to tax you and send that money to Africa? If you dont want to, you should not be forced to pay for it. That doesnt violate the social contract either. The state provides for certain necessities the individual can't provide under the social contract. Anything the individual cannot take care of themselves (such as defence and security) is the job of the state. The state doing anything more is an overstepping of boundaries. It voids the social contract and is tyranny.
>>69157961
>Doctors aren't required to provide a service
But they are. Even if you set up your own private clinic, you are forced by legislation (hippocratic oath) to serve anyone. Anyone. Even if you say, set up the clinic to treat your family members.
Its completely against the principles of the Free Market. I should be allowed to choose who I offer my services to, and the person I offer it to should be allowed to refuse.
The free market will solve it.
>>69149088
>Forced to work 48 hours
Yeah, making it a right tottaly does not creates environment in which doctors are treated like slaves.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/junior-doctors-furious-after-new-example-rotas-show-them-working-three-weekends-in-a-row-a6882541.html
>>69147063
Dembots. Every time.
>>69158288
How is that even remotely relevant to the topic
It has nothing to do with what randlet is saying
>Murkans literally not comprehending what a socialised medicine is
Weird you have food stumps but dont understand that "food" can be replaced with "medical treatment" and suddenly you have health stumps like you have food stumps
>>69158502
Its more or less what he is saying, as that is his entire life philosophy. Rand believes the free market can solve anything, because he is Libertarian.
He is arguing that hospitals (not doctors, he believes in the hippocratic oath) should be allowed to select who they do business with. That denying them that right is an overstepping of government authority.
>>69158076
"to allow the market to determine what people consider important"
Because you get called a racist or an ___-phobe or a bigot if you don't overwhelmingly and enthusiastically support positions and policies that I personally deem important.
>>69158661
>Russian retard noises.
OK, Ivan, try to use your brain here.
Food Stamps are for the POOR. We also have Medicaid, FOR THE POOR. What the faggot SJW's want is to get "Muh Free Healthcare" so they can spend money they get from Mom on an I-Phone and Chinese cartoons.
Kill yourself.
>>69150908
Oh look a 12 year old who doesn't understand what "Nation" means.
You need to have a least a little bit over a middle school education to post here, kid.
>>69158957
>What the faggot SJW's want is to get "Muh Free Healthcare" so they can spend money they get from Mom on an I-Phone and Chinese cartoons.
People 26 and under are already covered by their parents plan under obamacare.
>Sanders; 'Philosophically, is healthcare a right?'
>Rand gives his philosophical argument against a 'right' to health care
>Hur durr, so all doctors in the UK are literal slaves
>>69159258
Faggot SJW's run older and most of them have a parent that can not figure out "Insurance" after smoking weed all the time.
>>69159373
Well, they are to an extent. In the sense that, if they want to be doctors, they are forced by the state to take all patients. Their freedom of choice is limited.
They are not literal slaves, because they can always change carreers, but that is of course impractical. Med school takes 12 years and indebts you heavily after all.
I understood what Rand said, but that's because I've read on the subject.
Spouting libertarian metaphors and principles that are hard to understand for the layman does nothing good for the movement. In fact, notice how Sanders took advantage of that and ridiculed Rand by asking that woman whether she felt a slave.
>>69147063
>What are your thoughts on libertarianism and the free market triumphing over socialism once again?
2011 is over. The lazze faire never worked, it can't work, and never will work.
FDR was the greatest thing that ever happened to this country and sanders know this, and will bring back the era of prosperity.
libertards will bring back the bad old days of the 1870s, riots, company towns and mine wars.
Pls, our robot waifus will be doing health care in about 10 years so we won't have to worry about this shit.
>>69155830
So a person should die because rich assholes don't want to pay more in taxes?
Seems fair.
>>69156334
>enforcing property rights does not involve force
sure
>>69159130
Nation is the word you use to make poor people die in your name
>>69159694
>FDR was the greatest thing that ever happened to this country
The fed fixed the great depression through monetary policy, by ending deflation.
FDR could have been replaced with a monkey and it wouldnt have mattered.
>>69159892
Should have worked harder. And the free market will provide you the healthcare you can afford. If you can only afford a bottle of whiskey and a disqualified veterinarian, that's just your choice. You did not work hard enough.
Note that anyone would have more income under a libertarian system, as they dont lose any income to taxes.
>>69157961
I'm not denying anyone their right if I refuse to do my job, but apparently doctors are if they do?
Why can't we just say that everyone has a right to a Ferrari while we are at it?
>>69159694
The Housing market bubble was caused by Government interference with the housing market.
>>69158957
Pretending to be idiots sure is popular among americans
Like compareing increase of medicaid's covering to slavery
>>69160185
*looks at Russian Socialism*
*looks at US*
Yeah I don't know why you think you have an opinion in this.
>>69160071
>You did not work hard enough.
Ah yes, a bootstrapper.
You're saying the world is just? That every poor person in the world is just lazy?
>>69159892
Give me one reason without muh feelings about why I should pay for your health. And apparently I'm an asshole for being successful while you're just a dumb NEET
>>69150490
Isn't k-12 education mandatory to some point?
Like if I don't send my kids to school and I don't homeschool them I'll get into legal trouble
>>69160339
If you are poor and unsuccessful, why do you deserve to live?
Natural selection hurts doesn't it, nu-male?
That feel when in my country doctors are literally slaves
We've had lots of problem because being a doctor has become so bad, nobody wants to do it. We have a doctor shortage. America please don't enslave your doctors
>>69147063
Rand's opinion looks more like paranoia and subjective fear, he doesn't make a single point he just makes several strawman examples based on his fears and claims victory.
>>69160339
I dont think anything. Im just answering what libertarians would answer. I'm more of a classical liberal with some nazi tendencies.
Anyway, yes, according to libertarians, everything is a choice. You made the choice to sell your labour at such a price that you can only afford the drunk veterinarian. You could have demanded more money for your labour, improved the quality of your service, etc. You didnt, so you made your bed now lie in it.
>>69147063
So I guess policeman and firefighters are slaves too.
>>69147063
this doesn't make sense
if you don't want to treat patients you could just, you know, not be a doctor
>>69160528
I'm a very healthy student, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
>>69160664
You want people to die in the streets (literally) because... natural selection? If you find basic evolutionary principles so appealing, why bother with property at all? With a society?
>>69160829
So libertarianism == the just world fallacy? I couldn't have put it better myself!
Does he also think the right to bear arms implies that gun manufacturers and vendors should be enslaved?
>>69147063
Suddenly pol cares about rand?
>>69161096
There's a reason they make doctors take vows to heal people.
>>69160843
They are. Firefighters should be privatized so people can vote with their dollar on the quality of fire services. Or let their neighbours house burn down if they outbid him, of course. Free market.
As for police, libertarians argue police and army should not exist. Its a threat of force used to take away freedom. Instead, people should form private security companies and any individual is free to hire them to protect them and solve crime. Or use guns to protect himself and save his money.
>>69160185
Right to Healthcare means that even if there were no way the doctor was ever going to get paid he'd still have to treat you because it is his right.
>>69161123
They cared about Ron so I would think they would care about Rand. They treated Ron Paul like he was our God Emperor back in 2012 so.
>>69161100
No, Libertarianism does not subscribe to Rousseau's view of humanity as innately good. It believes humans are selfish assholes. Hence your need to own guns.
But they also believe people will always work together for mutual profit. A good enough deal can dissuade anyone. Yes, sometimes this will disadvantage someone else. But thats the market. It has ups and downs. You'll just have to find a better deal to work your way up.
>>69150553
Wait... WHAT?
Your taxes are paying for 6 figure wages?
>>69150908
No they are irresponsible AND greedy.
Direct, interpersonal relationships are better than money getting sucked up by a machine then shat back down.
>>69150490
You're not a libertarian then
>>69147063
THIS IS WHY BERNIE NEEDS COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES PAID FOR AND RAN BY THE GOVERNMENT.
THEN YOU HAVE NO CHOICE.
CREEPING COMMUNISM.
>>69161607
kek, the ditto.
>>69147063
tfw rand ran for president at the wrong time.
dog bless you randlet
>>69161100
>You mean you don't want to pay for people that don't give a shit about you?? Are you fucking kidding me?
Maybe they should invest their money into health insurance instead of buying the newest set of Jordan's and iPhone.
>>69161291
Libertarians are worse than Bernie by far.
>>69161859
No they're not, what he said is absolutely true. If you have a right to healthcare, that means that even if the doctor is never going to be paid for his service he must provide it because not doing so would be a breach of your rights.
Bernie said you have a RIGHT to healthcare, that's a ridiculous statement.
>>69161607
>Jeb
>>69161859
t. Serf
1400
4
0
0
>>69149528
A better example is a right to ehalthcare vs a right to due process/right to an attorney. Doesnt mean you have a right to enslave attorneys and kick their door in at 3AM and conscript them to represent someone. Fucking retarded comparison. Just like you have a right to due process which means you have a right to court hearing/trial by jury of peers/representation etc, those things can be paid for by the state if your income is low enough that you are unable to pay for it yourself.
You get out what you put in.
If you pay taxes or in our case National insurance which goes towards the NHS, then yes, you should get free healthcare.
If you dont or are illegal then fuck off.
>>69162020
An even more retarded statement is one that says the police and army should not exist.
Everything should be privatized.
>>69162442
Do explain why. Not going to just accept "its retarded" as an argument, Bernie.
>>69162381
If you pay into it, how is it "free" healthcare?
Is Rand Paul a moron?
Also he has a surname for a first name and a first name for a surname. What a clown.
>>69147063
>If there's free health care then I'd be a slave doctor!!!
>there is more than one doctor in any hospital at a given time
>doctors already work normal hours at varied shifts, meaning there will always be one available 24h a day
Rand's still having a bad night, huh?
>>69147063
Trump needs to nominate Rand as supreme court justice.
>>69160649
Isn't healthcare mandatory at some point, or you'll like, die?
>>69164250
Only faggots who should had died should die.
Less govt mandated shit less taxes less debt.
>>69147063
But wouldn't those people be getting paid the same but the money comes from an alternative source? I don't get it.
>>69157495
He's an indoctrinated child whose likely formed his opinion from cherry picked "medical horror anecdotes" or he's poor.
>>69163423
The police are there to enforce the law of the land while the military protects the nation.
>>69165111
doctors get paid less in socialist states
>>69165909
Why would the defence of the nation have to be up to a government military? Why couldnt a mega corporation handle that, with people paying for them voluntarily?
I mean, considering almost no NATO countries even meet the 2% GDP defence spending NATO norm, clearly the government fails at protecting the nation. Why could a business not do just as well? Or voluntary militias?
As for laws... any laws that require force to back them, are unfair. People consent to laws, that is Freedom.
>>69150211
If taking 100% of a person's earnings or property is theft. Tell me at what percentage does it not become theft.
>>69166193
>Why couldnt a mega corporation handle that, with people paying for them voluntarily?
Are you saying that the security of the nation should rely on charity? Explain.
I think everyone deserves some type of healthcare,
>>69147063
A free market would be a nightmare and universal healthcare would be a dream come true.
>you believe in slavery
Rand pual, Overeactionary, now even Republicans are playing like whiney cunts
>>69147063
>DO YOU SUPPORT ME BEING SHOT?
the problem with these arguments is bernie is not actually going to go around abducting doctors
>>69166395
Not charity. It would rely on the market. Those people who consider defence important, will make a deal with a defence corporation. Like any corporation peddling its goods, it'll have to advertise and impress people with the necessity of its product. It will have to deliver results.
Clearly our nation states have failed to convince us of the necessity of defence, as they cut spending year after year. Something you cannot consent or object to, as you have no way to influence policy directly. If you vote with your dollar, you influence policy directly. You determine what the money of society gets spent on, you dont need taxes.
If people want to give charity to Africa, they will donate to NGOs en masse.
If people want a strong, well defended nation, they will negotiate contracts, donate and work for defence corporations.
If people want police, if they want someone who has done them injustice prosecuted, they can hire a firm to do so for them (or do it themselves).
Although I personally believe defence and infrastructure are the only duties of the nation, and nothing else. I'm more of a classical liberal that way.
>>69147063
perhaps the same could be said of all government institutions
Bernie's ideas
pic related
>>69167095
>If people want police, if they want someone who has done them injustice prosecuted, they can hire a firm to do so for them
What if they don't have the money for this?
>Although I personally believe defence and infrastructure are the only duties of the nation, and nothing else.
Do you not believe in regulations to stop corps fucking people over at all? What about lawmaking?
>>69167607
No. I dont believe in regulation. You are a rational, responsible individual. Everyone is. If a corporation fucks you over, if you dont like the product they sell... dont buy it. Not like a corporation can force you.
The only regulation the government should maybe, maybe enforce is no monopolies. But I am of two minds on that one.
If you dont have the money to hire "police", you can go after the one who did you injustice yourself. Of course, not having money to pay for "police" is a direct result of you spending money on other things, which clearly means you consider those things more important. Thats what voting with your dollar means.
Are libertarians really the anarcho-capitalists that /pol/ always makes them out to be? Are they just picking out farthest, edge cases?
Everytime someone says "We need to reduce taxes and government spending" it always seems that people interrupt this as a transition to no taxes, no government and anarchy
>>69147063
Those comments, holy fuck
>If doctors in Norway are slaves, then they are among the best paid and best treated slaves in the world. (I wouldn't mind being a norwegian slave.)
>I wouldn't mind being a slave
Fucking Bern victims.
>>69169226
There is a spectrum. There are the anarcho-capitalists who hate everything to do with the state, and there are people like me who think the state has a small, limited amount of responsibility (as defined by the social contract: the state's role is only to take care of things individuals cannot in any way do).
>>69168381
What if that corporation uses fraud and you don't have the money to pay for a lawsuit? There are other regulations that are important as well like price-cap regulation for example.
Also I don't like your argument regarding police and not being able to pay for them. If you're unemployed, homeless and can't pay for food, you're essentially fucked. What if you get murdered? Then how do you pay for justice?
>>69167587
a real conservative would see all of them kicked out since they are not paying to see the game.
>>69148251
>bernie says it's A RIGHT
>you somehow hear he saying "universal healthcare"
>>69151295
>might as well be slavery
>get paid
>work at will and are free to find a different job at any time
>slavery
is this why /pol/ seems to think slavery was no big deal?
>>69169302
What happened to you, America?
>>69169745
>heard him*
autofixd
>>69169689
>fraud
>lawsuit
These are both concepts that dont exist in a libertarian society. "fraud" just means your business partner was shrewder than you. Should have outjewed him first. Learn from it and use it in your next deal.
As for a corporation jewing you when you purchase their services (by for example delivering an inferior product) dont buy from them again. They will go bankrupt with those kind of practices. Sure, you lose on that particular transaction. It happens.
>If you're unemployed, homeless and can't pay for food, you're essentially fucked
Then you are a retard and probably dont deserve to live. Darwinism bro. Find a niche to make money.
>what if you get murdered
Well, then your family and friends should avenge you, thus discouraging future murders.
>>69152952
>Stefan Molyneux
>idiot
>>69170427
This entire comment was just edgy and Jewish. Libertarians are fucking insane.
>>69169581
>There are the doctors who hate everything to do with tumors, and there are people like me who think tumors has a small, limited amount of growth (as defined by the social """"""""""""""""""""contract"""""""""""""""""""""""": the tumors role is only to take care of things individuals cannot in any way do).
>>69169801
Military Dictatorship and Kirchner
>>69156659
>>69171034
That's what happened to us (I would even go further back and say "Peron")
>>69170862
how could you not see through that butthurt statists interpretation of liberty
>>69170862
Id say they are rather more idealists. Its a touch naive, yes. But they are always good allies to oppose the state's excesses.
>>69171191
He sounds exactly like one of the many Stefan Molyneux fans I've heard spout retarded bullshit across the internet.
>>69171554
>>69171191
These arent my opinions, retards. Im just repeating libertarian talking points. I believe there is the necessity of a state, but that it should be small and has no business regulating people's private lives.
>>69170862
>>69170981
>pic
>what is paypal
>what is quickpay
>what is venmo
>>69148251
High Quality health care system for everyone specially in a 130 million population is very expensive you require a very high taxation that you are planning to take from people with low income or in welfare. Politicians prefer not to rise taxes in order to keep votes, so they have several options:
lower the quality of the health care system.
Force health care workers to work for a low income.
And the favorite, very high taxes in multinational companies. Which of course is going to reduce production and investment.
>>69161353
What you say would be correct if your country didnt have a right for people to chose their jobs
Since you have such a right you cant force anyone to work for you, but your government will be obliged to find a doctor willing to perform the medical treatment you need and pay him to do it
Rand's statement is pantsu on head retarded.
>>69147063
>conscript
>slavery
manlet is getting hysterical in his effort to construct strawman.
"RIGHTS" come from what the government CANNOT do to you, not what they MUST to for you.
You have the RIGHT to remain silent. The government can't force you.
You have the RIGHT to liberty. The government should not be able to take that away.
You have the RIGHT to a gun. The government shouldn't make laws to steal that from you.
You have the RIGHT to freedom of speech. The government shouldn't be able to stop you from that.
Notice something there? What Rand is talking about is a fundamental theory of rights. Here's the one where you guys get messed up:
>The RIGHT to legal counsel.
This is actually backwards. It's that you have the RIGHT not to have the government press it's legal (and oftentimes confusing) system against you without you having counsel on how that system works. That means your RIGHT is not about having a lawyer. It's about not having a legal system victimize you when you are unable to understand it.
Get fucked you freedom haters.
