1. The visible universe constitutes about 5% or its total mass, while the remainder is occupied by an invisible, intangible substance called "dark matter". This hypothetical substance has yet to be seen or measured, and its properties are yet to be described, but so-called "scientists" assert its existence. In conclusion, the key to uncovering the physical laws of our universe is a substance we believe in based on faith -- so why is it better to believe in dark matter than to believe in God?
2. Evolution takes place on time scales that are too long to observe. No one has witnessed a dinosaur evolve into a chicken. If you believe in evolution, your belief hinges on faith and not tangible evidence.
3. A universe without a creator violates causality.
4. Some argue that humans evolved from apes, and that we share 98% of our genes with Chimpanzees. However, if humans were related to apes, hybridization would be possible. A Soviet scientist named Ilya Ivanov performed experiments where he personally inseminated several Orangutans and Chimpanzees in an attempt to create such a hybrid, proving our relation to apes. In every instance, he failed to produce a result.
What created the creator?
You can't even hybridize certain cultivars of same species of plants due to enough genetic divergence to prevent it
You're arguments are fucking weak try harder
>>69137439
Nothing obviously!! He was always there :DDD
>>69137439
Our understanding of physics leads us to assume that the creator would need to exist outside of our universe, which would not necessarily require him to be bound by the same physical laws.
>>69137771
see
>>69137892
Typical fedora thinks he can "understand" God. Least of all when he can't even understand his own dimension.
>>69137134
The Big Bang Theory does not imply that Universe was created out of nothing. This theory does not mention a thing about the origins of Universe. All it does is make a retrospect using the data we can gather from space and adjusting it with mathematical equations, the ones we use in our everyday lives, to precisely measure and recreate the events that happened just after the Big Bang.
We have to lay that meme about Universe being created out of nothing to rest.
>>69137134
>Some argue that humans evolved from apes, and that we share 98% of our genes with Chimpanzees. However, if humans were related to apes, hybridization would be possible.
Uh, this is complete bullshit. How do you think new species arise? Pretty much the main definition of species is an organism which can only breed with organisms of its own type.
You CAN have hybrids, like between a donkey and a horse. Those mules are almost always STERILE by the way. Just because related species can have hybrids does not mean that all related species MUST have hybrids.
Anyone with eyes can see the similarity between chimpanzees and humans. Even their facial expressions often resemble ours.
>>69137134
Dark matter isn't based on faith , though. . You can tell it's there because according to our current model some stars should definitely fly away from their systems and ever off into the unknown , especially on rim worlds like ours , but something is equalizing the gravitational force so that it still continues to orbit (and slightly be pulled inward ) so it must be there .
>>69138063
It supposes the universe came from one point. Beyond that the theory is useless. Then buttmad fedoras say "muh Big Bang" and apparently don't even understand that theory. The theory of God for Universal creation of everything is the most logical one. Also for the record. NO, GOD IS NOT EVEN REMOTELY HUMAN.
>>69138119
>You CAN have hybrids, like between a donkey and a horse. Those mules are almost always STERILE by the way.
Mules are always sterile but hinnies are not. The goal of Ivanov's experiments was to produce a hybrid, regardless if it turned out sterile. He failed, however, because we did not evolve from apes.
Furthermore, people forget to mention that we also share something like 90+ percent of our genes with any given mammal. Does that mean we evolved from whales?
>>69137134
I'm really glad you posted this picture. It really sums up in an intellectual way why Christians are right and atheists are wrong. After all, some fancy pants ye olde philosopher guy said God exists, and atheists are playing with cow turds. I always knew this to be true, but this fair comparison really drives it home.
>>69138119
I can see the similarity between a logical fallacy and your argument lol
>>69138470
> The theory of God for Universal creation is the most logical one
The one which needs to be readjusted and revised every once in a while as soon as a new scientific milestone has been reached?
>>69138552
No, they came from the same protein soup and split off though.. We share 50% of our DNA with a banana. When everything is carbon based. And only a few protein strands became successful.
>>69138735
The Bible still hasn't been revised. Just translated. Nice meme though. The Good Book still holds true.
Ignoring Christianity though. Only an outside force could get things moving. Or for that matter, create the dimensional place for this existence.
We cant fully understand it.....thats it.
You cant perceive past 4 dimensions yet there are many more. So here you already have a clear barrier which our mind and body cant cross.
Same goes for whatever process started the fucking universe, we might NEVER understand it.
>>69138735
Posting for reference.
>>69139046
You can't understand God.
>>69137134
You faggots seriously don't believe in evolution? Or that humans and other primates aren't related? If you want to have a religion to sleep at night go for it, but that's some redneck shit right there, man. This is why no one takes /pol/ fucking seriously.
>>69138470
>It supposes the universe came from one point. Beyond that the theory is useless.
To build on this, the Big Bang theory suffers from the same problem that plagues evolutionary theory. In order for a theory to be scientific, it needs to be falsifiable. Neither evolution nor the Big Bang can be observed. And if the Big Bang theory is indeed true, if the human race survives long enough to witness a Big Crunch and finally settle the atheism vs. science debate, it would be of no consequence to anyone because the universe as we know it will cease to exist. If you waste your life believing in fairy tales, dark matter, and human-monkey hybrids, and God is real, you'll end up spending an eternity in hell.
>>69137134
>if humans were related to apes, hybridization would be possible
There's a point where it stops being possible. We even know of an intermediate point, when hybrids can occur but they can't reproduce (mules, for instance)
>Evolution takes place on time scales that are too long to observe
Microbial adaptation to antibiotics?
>No one has witnessed a dinosaur evolve into a chicken
Some scientists managed to devolve a chicken's leg to a dinosaur's
http://phys.org/news/2016-03-scientists-chick-dinosaur-feet.html
As for dark matter, it's very controversial (read: many people think it's silly), so no one actually swears by it
>>69139255
You only stated your opinion Huetard.
Please argue any points you feel needed arguing.
>INB4 muh evolution
I support the theory.
>>69139184
>You can't understand God.
How do you know he exists, then? The very notion of existence implies understanding of some degree
>>69139255
Kill your niggers and let us anex you and then we can talk.
>>69139344
This is unlikely. God will allow good souls to be redeemed in the final days. All souls will be tested.
>>69137134
>dark matter has never been directly observed
>therefore it doesn't exist
It's not an observation of what is there exactly, rather of what isn't. Something is there, and we call it dark matter. When don't know what it is or how it does what it does, but it does.
>why is it better to believe in that than God?
Because it's not fucking magic. Your logic seems to be "we don't know, therefore God exists" which in itself is a shitty argument.
>muh timeframes on ebilution
Really? So if I guy has a bloody knife in his hands, bloody tracks on the floor, is about ten feet away from a body with stab wounds, has a history of violence, was alone in the room until you entered and had blood all over his clothes and pieces of the other person's flesh in his pocket, I shouldn't assume he's a murderous psychopath because I didn't see him do it?
>a universe without a creator violates causality.
So does a creator that wasn't created. No amount of special pleading will change that. Also, who says it doesn't have a creator? Of course it was created. But by what?
>Humans evolved from apes
Wrong, humans and apes shared a common ancestor. Even if we were related, you can't take house cat jizz and impregnate a fucking lioness. You're talking out of your ass.
>>69137134
1. dark matter is a theory that comes from observable stuff, such as energy levels on stars, which are testable.
2.fossils; bacteria getting more resistant to antibiotics with each generation.
3. a creator without a creator violates causality
4. Just because 98 looks like a huge number to you doesn't mean it is to nature, we also share 90%+ dna with fruit flies and we look nothing like them.
You have no way to analyse/measure what "98%" means in this context; what would a creature with 99% same dna be in relation to us? What would a creature with 50% same dna be like?
The only thing you can see from that experiment is that even a 2% difference makes distinct, unbreedable creatures.
Srsly, too much retardment in one thread.
>>69139344
You don't need to be atheist to believe in evolution or the big bang, and you don't need to see something to know it happened. If you gather enoght evidence for something you can prove it happened withou being there.
If a cat and a mouse go into a empty room and only a cat comes out, even if no one is ever going to see what happened you can know for sure the cat ate the mouse.
>>69139552
What happened to souls before Jesus anyway?
Were all non-jews destined for eternal suffering or did god create hell after "saving" mankind.
>>69139473
I can observe his will. Fairly obvious senpai. Something can't make sense based on a theory we derive. In a time when knowledge defines a man. With mass transits of info, yet it is still out of our grasp and likely will be for eternity. The truth of creation.
I can say a force of infinite power in comparison to this Universe created it. This based on everything we know, is more logical than having existence based on nothing.
>>69139184
This image is grade school tier.
>>69139440
It's not a theory you dumb burger. It's been proven. Your opinion is irrelevant
>>69137134
Just want to point out that the Catholic church doesn't take an official position on the mechanics behind humanity's origin, and you can believe whatever you want so long as you can back it up.
I take no position on the issue because until we can understand how non-living matter can become living, and how non-sentient life can become sentient, there is no point in debating evolution vs. creationism
>>69139522
Nah man i'm not racist.
>>69139686
I am sure God passed his judgement on them. The teachings of Jesus, the son of God. Are basically just be a decent fucking human.
http://www.wowzone.com/commandm.htm
>>69139768
>I can observe his will
Really? How can you tell a certain event was God?
>inb4 everything is God
This would mean God is just the universe, not a will
>>69139900
Because you are a nigger.
>>69139788
It's both a fact and a scientific theory. The fact is that living organisms change over time due to natural selection, adaptation and mutations. The theory is how these this relate and interact with each other.
>>69139788
Nice opinion huetard. It is a theory and always will be. Solely because it will eternally search for the true beginning.
>>69139773
Yet all you could post was b8.
The image holds truth and you only spouted your opinion on it.
>>69139788
>being this retarded
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.
>>69139686
Between the Crucifixion and the Resurrection, Jesus went to save the righteous pagans
>>69140092
That's not how theories work.
>>69139900
I know these feels anon, you have no idea how it feels to constantly pretend to be a retard just so you can communicate with the subhumans in your country. It gets infuriating knowing Im one of these things these "niggers".
>>69139967
>If you're not racist than you're not white
Thats some BLM retarded logic m8
>>69139184
I think Galilei, Copernicus and other fellows would not agree with you on that image.
>>69139965
A massive outside force started the ticking and tocking of the Universe. It's God.
>>69140172
RARE
So are you admitting the theory is wrong? It is a theory after all. It hasn't actually provided hard evidence. Just haphazard suppositions.
>>69140092
>>69140160
>>69140172
EITHER WAY: what matter is this:
1. How does non-living matter become living?
2. How does non-sentient life become sentient?
Those are the real questions
>>69140218
>from brazil
>thinks he is white
>>69140249
Probably on a few points. You get the picture though. The theory of God still holds a lot of water. That is why it is still discussed.
>>69139921
So before Jesus you could be saved by being a decent human being, but after Jesus you could only be saved by believing in Jesus.
Sounds like a bad deal mate.
>christians
>not cucked as fuck
Also, uncreated reator violates causality.
Also, burden of proof.
>>69140313
>Autism from leafs. Who would have thought.
>>69140414
Following the will of God gets you on the fast path. Only monks probably make it. Everything else waits in Limbo for the end times.
>>69137134
>A universe without a creator violates causality.
A creator without a creator violates causality and so on. Fuck off Christcuck.
>bible
>logical
Oh lol, here we go again
>>69140290
>A massive outside force started the ticking and tocking of the Universe
How do you know?
Also, where's the will? Did that force "decide" to start the Universe? How do you know?
>>69140419
>>69140552
Hive mind.
Epic.
>>69140160
It is something that cannot be observed in our life times. It's as proven as it can possibly get. And if you even use a tiny bit of logic you will know it's undeniable at this point. It's called a theory merely because it's what it was called in the begginig
>>69140313
>how does non-living matter become living?
That's not what evolution is about, first of all, and viruses and protocells are what we think it is. Too early to know for sure.
>how does non-sentient life become sentient?
Increases in brain size and activity to enhance decision making?
YOUR GOD DOES NOT EXIST.
Please grow up.
>>69140548
Dante's Inferno is not a religious text.
>>69137134
1) There is evidence of this dark matter, just like there is of gravity, but there is no evidence of a God. He is just as likely to be real as pixies or genies.
2) This is a classic creationist argument. I bet you got this one from one the creationist websites. Evolution has been witnessed in fish, flies, and bacteria. "Oh, but they never became a different 'kind' of animal." That takes millions of years to happen. If you look at the fossil evidence, you can see what the evolutionary changes would have looked like. However, most fossils (99.9999% percent) were destroyed, so you don't see that 'transition,' which creationists claim doesn't exist, clearly. There is 99% consensus among the greatest scientists regarding evolution being truthful.
3) So does there being a God. Tell me, how would a God be able to create matter, space and energy? For him to have been able to do that, it must have been able to come into existence on its own. I believe that matter and energy can not be created or destroyed. I believe that it has always existed.
4) There is overwhelming evidence that humans evolved. Look at the different skull shapes of all the races of humans. Look at the homo erectus skulls. This is such a poor argument. Humans are a different species than Chimps. We can't interbreed lol.
>>69140382
>I live in Brazil, so i become a nigger by proxy
Between you and me you seem like the nigger m8
>>69140571
By ruling out other possibilities. Which are zero.
>>69140552
>>69140419
The creator supersedes Universal law.
>>69140661
Are you retarded. It is called a theory because that is what it is.
Just like the theory of relativity and many other scientific theories.
I don't know how long it'll take until we can teach niggers what the word theory mines, but clearly a long time.
>>69140218
>What is tribal instinct and thousands of year of evolution?
>>69140774
And?
>>69140552
>People don't realize the Pope washing the sub human feet was a declaration of war
JUST
>>69140718
>theistic personalism
>he doesn't believe in the Logos
BOHEMIAN LIFESTYLE
>>69140668
My point is that people only speculate and nobody has ever been able to experimentally create life out of non-living material. You'd think it would be a priority and would have been done by now, but it very well might not be possible.
>>69140290
>Rare
Uncommon at best
>so you admit it's wrong
No, I said that's not how theories work. Theories don't turn into facts. That's not how science works. A theory explains how all the other things in the fact come together to make it true. A fact just tells you what happens. It's both a fact and a theory, the fact is just irrelevant because it's in the theory already.
>>69137134
A
FUCKING
LEAF
>>69140843
It's a "theory", but it is also a fact, friend.
Why faith heaers can't bring back legs? Maybe there are no miracles after all...
>>69140967
>has no counter-arguments
>proceeds to shitpost memes
>average atheist
>>69140552
>has great philosophical heritage
>argues like an ape
you truly do deserve what's happening, nazibro
>>69141059
OH MY FUCKING GOD YOU FINALLY FIGURED OUT WHAT SCIENTIFIC THEORY MEANS
>>69140820
>Which are zero
No energy started anything, it's been around
It was an energy but it didn't have a will or an identity
Many energies from other universes came together and started this one, those beginning in a simple pool of energy with no will
Energy appeared after matter, which was simply hanging around
There are many, and they're just as provable as "God did it"
>>69141007
I love when Alex Jones has a freakout on-air (every time).
>>69140911
What? So whites evolved to be racist?
>>69140930
>>69140967
>>69141065
>>>r/atheism
Please, if you're going to be an atheist at least don't be a teenage atheist
>>69137134
>Sir Isaac Newton personally met God and asked him these things
Religionfags are a modern cancer and need to be wiped out immediately.
>>69141103
Burden of proof nigga. Please proceed with your arguments for your specific god.
>>69141028
What was the argument here? It is a theory.
>>69140668
Let's not pretend like microevolution and macroevolution are comparable. Macroevolution implies that one species turns into another, and that at one point microorganisms evolved into macroorganisms. Given the rapid pace at which microevolution takes place, it should be fairly common to see new organisms emerge as they evolve from microbes. However, we have not witnessed a single case of a microbe evolving into a macroorganism. We have never seen a single cellular life form evolving into a multicellular life form. In fact, we have never witnessed a virus evolve into a bacterium.
Furthermore, how do you explain the evolution of flight? Did the birds just keep jumping from high places until one survived?
Organized religion is the biggest and oldest blue pill of all time. Christianity was literally invented by Jews.
>>69141015
>and nobody has ever been able to experimentally create life out of non-living material
And how does that affect the theories of natural selection and random mutation? Evolution isn't incompatible with the idea of a God that creates life out of inorganic matter.
>>69141209
Please if you are theist at least don¨t be delusionl theist... oh, wait a moment....
>>69141189
everyone did. just like everyone evolved to protect one's own family.
>>69138406
>because according to our current model
Opinion discarded
>you can tell invisible unicorns exist, because according to our current model, they are one explanation for why stars don't move away from each other faster. The unicorns are holding them in place. You see? No faith required XDDD
>>69141145
No they aren't. They all came into existence. The creator made EVERYTHING. Started EVERYTHING.
>Meta-verse
It is still in the Universe.
>>69141243
You're claiming there is no Logos. If there is no Logos I don't see how you would make any claims at all so explain to me how you can
>>69140407
So, why the great God didn't give christfags (to put that knowledge in the Bible) full perspective of Earth by disengaging the ridiculous notion of geocentrism? Was he trolling? I don't think so.
Newton also believes alchemy was a thing and that metals had spirits in them. He also didn't follow the belief of the holy Trinity.
He was a heretic
>>69141391
you can't see oxygen but it fills your lungs, you can't see gravity but it pulls objects to the ground.
are you that retarded?
>>69141133
>MY FUCKING GOD
Doesn't exist.
But yeah I googled it.
>>69141379
Not more than blacks, tho
>>69141515
Because cults spawned off of the word of God and people blinded themselves in themselves. Just like a drug addict.
>>69141419
I don't have to prove non-existence of anything. If there is a logos, please provide evidence.
But you seem like you should rather get a basic lessons i logic. Your logos is laughing at you pathetic ass.
>>69137134
>>69137134
God concept has too many loopholes. Where did God come from? Why is he so evil and try top destroy us so often yet expect us to worship him? Why is he so petty and childish? Why are there so many contradictions in the bible? Why so many different interpretations of the same God and religion? Your god is a false god. There probably are no such thing as gods.
>>69141324
I know, but people who are all "EVOLUTION EXPLAINS THE ORIGIN OF LIFE COMPLETELY" are delusional, since they kind of gloss over two massive developments: the origin of life and the origin of intelligence. Probably a kind of old-earth creationism is closest to the truth
>>69141552
We can observe Oxygen now huetard. We have that technology.
>>69138671
I'm really impressed you typed that with one hand because I guarantee the other hand was firmly pinching the brim of your fedora
>>69141265
>it should be fairly common to see new organisms emerge as they evolve from microbes. However, we have not witnessed a single case of a microbe evolving into a macroorganism
Not at all, you're comparing a kid laying legos to a multinational bridge. It definitely should be more uncommon than microevolution.
>We have never seen a single cellular life form evolving into a multicellular life form
Refer to above. Better yet, you could say that there have always been pluricelulars along with single cells; it's not impossible.
>In fact, we have never witnessed a virus evolve into a bacterium.
Virii evolved from bacteria, it seems.
>No they aren't. They all came into existence.
How do you know?
>>69141015
>people only speculate
Based on what they know. We didn't just pull it from your asscrack, a lot of work went into development and testing these assumptions.
>nobody has created life out of non-living material
First of all, technically yes we have, as dead cell membranes were injected with DNA and reanimated. That's a technicality though. But most importantly, we can't accurately pinpoint the exact conditions of Earth 3 billion years ago, so any experiment will be countered by falsified data. Not to say there haven't been strides; the protocells were developed recently which are only technically not alive. They have cell membranes and replicate but don't have full RNA strands.
>>69141391
>has absolute no idea what the concept of a "model" entails
whew lad
have fun in retail
>>69141243
cant prove non-physical property with physical studies pepik
>>69140407
It's still discussed because people that have believed in god since they were 3 somehow found it hard to stop.
You are no different than blind liberals.
>>69138552
>Does that mean we evolved from whales?
It means we share a common ancestor.
>>69141552
Food in microwave oven is heated by numbers counting backwards on the timer screen not by invisible microwaves.
>>69141675
I agree on your first point, but we can't say shit about the origin of life one way or another. We know simple aminoacids eventually became cells, but we don't know how.
"Probably" implies it's more certain than other possibilities.
>>69141569
>>69141778
>Opinion
>Discarded
The bible thousands of years ago knew that atoms existed and the ocean had springs. That Wind blew in cyclones.
Although Atoms were already predicted.
>>69141755
See, you can't prove shit. So much for your logos (and all others wannabe gods...)
>>69141648
You're making a claim. These r/atheism-tier tactics don't work here and it just shows that you're not intellectually serious
>>69141748
Yeah, but reanimating dead cells (especially recently-dead cells like I assume it was) isn't the same as synthesising the materials necessary for life out of non-living material and making it live, and then there's still the issue of sentience
>>69139349
Look at you, right on every point but christfags don't respond.
THERE IS NO GOD.
And after we die, there is nothng. Accept the truth, cowards. Accept it.
>>69138018
But I'm sure YOU can understand god you fucking twat.
>>69141844
You can interact with Microwaves. That is why the protective screen is there. If you NEED to test them. Throw some metal in there.
>>69141931
I know, that's why I think these evolution vs. creation debates are pointless with our present knowledge. But if there is a theory out there that would, judging on present knowledge, be the closest to what actually happened (albeit imperfect as a theory) it would be old-earth creationism
>>69142217
Nobody can. Like I stated.
Just like how liberals ignore racial science, christian conservatives ignore evolutionary science, yet they claim to despise Jews and blacks when their own holy book says that everyone is equal.
Jesus was the ultimate cuck.
>>69142065
Let's just ignore the fact that the three largest religions in the world, which the majority of the world's population follow. all believe in the same deity. Obviously that is comparable to some pagan idol worshiped by pygmies.
>>69137134
>so why is it better to believe in dark matter than to believe in God?
If you have a better theory that supports the evidence scientists will be happy that you can explain it.
If you have a better theory than god theists will complain and make a stupid post on an chinese deepsea fishing subreddit.
>rest
oh it's supposed to be a troll thread again
>>69142217
seeing as your id has GOD
he probably does
>>69142115
Im not making any claim. Im just telling you that what is asserted without evidence, can be discarded without evidence.
Did you managed to finish elementary school?
>>69142213
I don't even reply to convince them anymore, this isi a good exercise of source search and argumentation for me.
>>69142307
Hence why I'm an agnostic. Good day, I've gotta do stuff.
>>69142215
>the land of porn whores, spitting shitty teenager-tier memes
>>69142326
In fact, by definition no human can fully understand God
>>69141687
So? My point is just because you can't see something doesn't mean there aren't other ways to verify its existence. We can also measure gravity and the 'invisible unicorns' that he is trying to deny.
Anti-science fags are the most moronic people on this planet, how about you stop using science-made computers and science-made internet since science clearly doesn't work? Yeah, thought so.
>>69142340
>Opinion Discarded.
>>69137134
>atheists digging up shit is somehow more ridiculous than a god that plants fossilized shit in the ground "by number, weight and measure"
>>69142065
prove to me that air exists without using physics or chemistry :^)
>>69142433
I am pro dark matter and dark energy mong.
Seeing something in the Universe doesn't disprove God.
>>69137134
Have you heard of microevolution?
>>69137134
Sorry kid
1. A guess based on evidence is not a belief based on faith.
2. Evolution is a logical necessity once you understand that random mutation and natural selection exists. The particulars of how it happened are in question, but that it happens is not.
3. A creator without a creator violates causality.
4. Not necessarily. Humans are related to chickens too.
8. nice b8, got me
>>69142415
Listen to this guy since you won't listen to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BQSqHrU7ns
What you think of when you think"God" is something I don't believe in either
>>69142569
We haven't even seen a bacterium evolve into an animal.
It's obvious that the universe was created systematically by a creator that has always and always will exist, whether he is all-knowing, all-powerful or all-good is up to debate and isn't necessary for this argument. But everything that exists doesn't just exist because it exists. A being that doesn't follow the physical constraints that we do must exist
>>69142347
Yeah and while we are at it, lets remember that they kill each other on a daily basis.
And yes, let us also remember all the bilions of hindu kids that end up in purgatory by default, because god loves us all so much.
Christians.
Are they really that dumb?
>>69142542
What is a gust. Why do you feel force from it? There is weight to the air.
>>69137134
>using technology to preach how wrong scientist are.
You probably deny tragic historical events that obviously happened.
>>69142637
>complains that we can't see something in 3000 years that is estimated to take dozens of thousands if not millions of years to happen
>>69142680
youre using physics there anon
see what im talking about?
>>69137134
Wew laddy
>>69142782
you had better be talking about the armenian genocide, goy
>>69142637
No but we watched virus strains evolve over the past few years to combat anti-biotics.
>>69142542
What about you proved to me that god exists?
>>69142589
Sorry, don't have 20 minutes for relgious babbling about your god - the logos almighty.
protip: there is no logos, grow up.
>>69137892
Why does it have to be a creator that exists outside of our universe and not something else?
>>69142869
That isn't physics. That is merely walking outside. You just slapped the label of physics on something Koko could understand.
>>69137439
Either there is an infinite chain of creators or a creator who was not created.
>>69142413
It clearly says NM G0D
>Lord Kek does not like other deities
>>69143010
>I won't even entertain opposing arguments
Well gee, why not go shitpost on reddit (where you obviously just recently came here from) or something where you can have people circlejerk your opinion at you forever
Atheists, you claim that the sun is a star, but the sun is actually a circle. Your science is flawed lol
>>69137134
>3. A universe without a creator violates causality
This is BS. Whatever "created" the universe would be outside the scope of the universe, so it doesn't necessarily follow the same rules as the universe
>>69143070
> That is merely walking outside.
That's what physics is though.
Hearing voices in your head is not ok.
But on religion, it is.
>religion
>not even once
>>69140718
>Australian
>>69141258
>it is a theory
It is also fact. The two are not mutually exclusive.
>>69141265
>micro and macroevolution meme
Neither of those exist. Macroevolution is macroevolution over billions of years. Small changes add up to big changes. It's the same damn thing. You don't call respiration "micro respiration" when a single cell does it.
>given the rapid pace at which macroevolution takes place
What a load of shit. Rapid? Compared to fucking what? Humans as a species are 200,000 years old. What organism has been observed since then? Also, ring species.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species
>We have not witnessed a microbe going from unicellular to multicellular
So? That would take millions of years to observe. You think these changes happen overnight? You think we can guide them somehow? We have, however found the steps that single cells have taken to get to multicellular levels.
>how do you explain the evolution of flight?
To put it as simply as possible, tree climbing led to gliding, as seen in the flying squirrel, and frames got lighter and smaller as the gliding range grew higher and higher. Scales lengthened to become more aerodynamic as they were pushed back, and eventually feathered out. Bones grew to he hollow lattices to reduce weight while still holding strength. Eventually, their muscle tissue developed enough to sustain flight.
>>69142582
1. Dark matter is not a guess based on evidence, it is basically the "luminiferous aether" of the 21st century. Gravitational anomalies are being explained away by a hypothetical substance. It's the same thing as telling you that Jesus is holding together the atomic nucleus, and on the same level as any other dime a dozen garbage popsci theory that requires "exotic matter" to work.
2. Explain my question about microevolution. The evolutionary theory necessitates that multicellular life forms evolved from microbes. It should be possible to witness this, but it has not been observed to happen once.
3. If God were located outside of the universe, it would not be bound by its physical laws. You're implying that I should drown because I own a fish tank.
4. I thought chickens were related to dinosaurs, not mammals. Am I missing something, or do you just make this shit up as you go?
>>69143239
Nice label bro.
>>69143345
And? I was arguing with some person that the Theory of evolution is a theory. It is a theory. >Shut the fuck up. Are you legitimately autistic?
>>69143042
>UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>>69142115
I said that already, and it wasn't reanimating dead cells. The cell membranes of dead cells were taken to support completely unrelated DNA to the cells. It was a housing for the components, which is technically a component itself.
>then there's still the issue of sentience
What issue? It's there to improve decision making. I said that already.
>>69143172
you are not presenting any argument what so ever. Also, you have already proven that your ability to think logically is fairly limited, so until you present a proof that there in fact is a logos, I will just ignore you from now on.
>>69143280
gtfo czechfag
your country is atheist and will probably turn in to a liberal shithole 25 years from now because of it
>>69141413
Perhaps the universe has a net energy of zero.
>>69143548
>it is a theory
*scrolls back
>it actually hasn't provided any evidence, which is why it's a theory
That is what I was talking about, and that is not how theories work.
>>69143483
Dark matter is just a placeholder term. Too much n the scifi side, are we?
Also, if god is outside of the universe, please tell us how he can interact with it?
You know, first god was in a cave, then on the mountain, then in the sky, now it is "outside of the universe".
What you are doing is a typical "god of the gaps" gambit and it just shows that you are full of shit.
If you claim that there is, in fact, a god please provide a proof or gtfo.
>>69137439
It's creators all the way down.
The universe we perceive and whatever god behind it are both just slices of infinity. Cause before effect is an illusion.
The world is a simulation, there's no other logical conclusion
>>69137134
>1. The visible universe constitutes about 5% or its total mass, while the remainder is occupied by an invisible, intangible substance called "dark matter". This hypothetical substance has yet to be seen or measured, and its properties are yet to be described, but so-called "scientists" assert its existence. In conclusion, the key to uncovering the physical laws of our universe is a substance we believe in based on faith -- so why is it better to believe in dark matter than to believe in God?
Incorrect, majority of space is empty, also known as a vacuum devoid of matter. Dark matter has also been conclusively proven to exist in laboratory settings.
>2. Evolution takes place on time scales that are too long to observe. No one has witnessed a dinosaur evolve into a chicken. If you believe in evolution, your belief hinges on faith and not tangible evidence.
We have both the physical fossil chain and genetic evidence to show it to be true. See the following: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dinosaur-drumsticks-1.3494308
>3. A universe without a creator violates causality.
A creator without a creator would do the same thing. Current theory states that the mathematical sum of all matter and energy is 0.
>4. Some argue that humans evolved from apes, and that we share 98% of our genes with Chimpanzees. However, if humans were related to apes, hybridization would be possible. A Soviet scientist named Ilya Ivanov performed experiments where he personally inseminated several Orangutans and Chimpanzees in an attempt to create such a hybrid, proving our relation to apes. In every instance, he failed to produce a result.
That's because we didn't evolve from apes, we shared a common ancestor but have since formed distinct species. Degree of common DNA doesn't mean interbreeding is possible either, there are dozens of factors that affect the ability to successfully interbreed.
>>69144094
Well your country is catholic and look at it, it is a 3rd world shit hole, where everyone who has a means to do it sends their children to study in Czech republic.
Thats how much god love you, faggot.
>>69137439
By definition, the creator is that which has on cause. It makes sense that the only thing able to will itself into existence is God
>>69144648
I've never heard of a Croatian pornstar, meanwhile...
>>69144668
Does this not violate causality? It exists because it willed itself to exist before it existed?
>>69144648
God doesn't hand out riches for believing in Him, whoever believes so is an idiot. He doesn't care about that stuff.
>>69144648
>3rd world shit hole
czechfag is mad
what? did they cancel the gay parade today?
>>69144957
Does he at least provide some evidence of his existence?
>>69145137
No. It would invalidate the point He's trying to make.
>>69145041
No need to get upset, slovakbro, just smoke some weed and chill...
Oh, I forgot, you can't. What a shame.
>>69137134
Picture: "FEELS OVER REALS! WHAT FEELS GOOD IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT SCIENCE SAYS!"
1: Science hasn't yet answered every single question in existence, therefore my religion is the correct one out of the multitude of cults which have existed throughout human history.
2: Despite all these bloody fingerprints, you didn't see the murder occur, so you have no tangible evidence.
3: A creator without a creator violates causality.
4: This is not how DNA works. I have personally inseminated several orangetans and chumpanzoos with astonishing results.
>>69138018
>Typical fedora thinks he can "understand" God. Least of all when he can't even understand his own dimension.
hmmmm
> idiot wants explanation
> idiot is unable to understand possible scientific explanations, or even worse, the notion that there might not be an answer
> idiot wants an explanation
> HURR DURR god must exist
you're worse than the fedora welding faggots.
>>69143483
Yeah, you're missing that at some point the branches of evolution merge.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/images/av/posters/IsIntelligentDesignViable_31.png
>>69144952
No, the creator is that which was able to come into existence on its own. It's a difficult concept to be sure
>>69145137
You can go back and watch that video I posted to at least understand what we mean when we say "God"
>>69145522
So if this theoretical creator can violate causality, then why can't a universe?
>>69144952
of course it does, but retards will say it doesn't cuz 'muh god'
>>69145300
Well, thats totally sad, but it is not confincing. Why him then and not Vishnu? Could it be that you were born in christian cultural sphere and thatyour religion is more like a tribal custom then anything else?
Could you imagine, that due to a sore lack of evidence, there is a possibility that there might, in fact, be no god at all?
>>69137134
>if you are not a christian then you are an atheist
>check flag
>A FUCKING LEAF
didn't expect anything else from a leaf
>>69145588
We? Who are "we"?
Please provide proof that there is your very specific, super special case of god?
>>69145635
A universe has to obey its own laws. Even if you take an atheistic approach to the big bang, you notice that all interpretations have the act of creation obeying the laws of the universe at all times, even at t=0. A creator sets the universe's laws, and the creator of our universe has thankfully given our universe a rational structure that follows consistent laws
>>69145522
You fucking retard. The Creator doesn't will Himself into being. The essence of the Creator IS being qua being.
That which makes existence possible, he is Will incarnate. The Creator is Being itself.
ITT: Ants grasping at the concept of the space shuttle.
>>69145635
Because the universe is bound by a relatively rigid set of physical laws.
It's a bubble of sanity in the vast sea of dream logic chaos that gods come from.
>>69145976
God is not a teapot floating in space
God is not a flying spaghetti monster
God is not a unicorn
God is that which nothing greater can be thought
God is the uncaused first cause
God is what theologians call "the Logos"
>>69145719
I tip my fedora to you goof sir. However Christianity was the only religion that seemed to give some sort of meaningful purpose in my life. I guess I could go muslim, but the prospect of living to kill the infidel isn't that much appealing to me.
>Could you imagine, that due to a sore lack of evidence, there is a possibility that there might, in fact, be no god at all?
It's possible. I just don't believe that's so.
>>69146013
>A universe has to obey its own laws
it doesnt actually, things inside the universe do
lets take the speed of light for example, no object in the universe can go faster than it, but the universe itself is expanding faster than the speed of light
>>69146013
false. Actually the laws of physics were different arount times close to T=0
Your argument is invalid and you are lying.
Please provide proof that creator exists.
>>69146207
I was trying to get at that, but I don't think an atheist Czech would grasp the concept
>>69142676
I think the bible takes into account people that were never introduced to Christianity and they're rewarded/punished based on the life they lived and not their faith. I think Hell is for those who outright reject the faith.
Furthermore, to steal a quote from /co/: If this world is only what we make of it, let us make good.
Christianity has been one of the best religions for getting thing done that we've ever had, even including the drawbacks it has caused. Literally every country worth anything has a strong Christian history for the bulk of that developmental period.
Secular/Atheist places turn into liberal shitholes that just import a more extreme religion or fall into hedonism rather easily anyway. As much as people argue that lack of religion is liberating, it's toxic for a nation.
Not every religion is made for your own personal englightenment. Sometimes its just for the good of the larger community to follow certain rules and traditions, to share a culture, and to habitually exercise discipline.
Look at majority secular or atheistic nations. Unless that have a cultural religion (such as Japan and Shintoism), they tend to suffer from cultural decay at a greatly accelerated rate.
>>69146309
But the universe is not greater than the universe because it's self-contained by definition. Therefore the universe has to obey its own laws.
>>69146355
Watch the video, you in particular are a dumb poster and I think you need it
>>69137134
>A universe without a creator violates causality.
But a creator without a creator doesn't?
Also death still remains à mystery !
I think one of the most powerfull god , tend to be mother nature , and we can find an infinite number of little god everywhere , in what we can see everyday ...
> Inb4 2deep4me
>>69144012
religion is shit I agree.
This doesn't disprove a higher intelligence in the universe.
Unless of course you think that WE are the highest form in the universe?
Which believing that requires the same faith as a religion you're fighting I'm afraid...
>>69145395
i got something better than weed my friend
i got a loving God ;)
>>69143483
1. But the luminiferous aether was a guess based on evidence too. Yes, it may be that the dark matter hypothesis will fail. That's ok. It's hardly unquestionable at this point. It's just the best idea we've got.
>2. but it has not been observed to happen once.
So? We don't know the exact situation that led to multicellular life. Your question is based on a misunderstanding of what a theory is for. It's for making predictions. If the predictions come true, then the theory gains validity. There's no prediction of evolution that says "if you do X, then you will create a multi-cellular organism"....Hence the lack of that observation doesn't disprove evolution. The predictive capacity of evolution as a theory is what is important.
3. If god exists outside of the universe, that means there can be stuff outside of the universe. Why can't there be another universe outside of the universe?
If god can exist outside of the universe without violating causality, why can't there simply be another universe that does the same.
4. Chickens are related to dinosaurs, they're also related to mammals. It's a TREE of life. We can be related to more than one thing.
>>69137134
1. Dark matter is a theory built out of necessity. Within our current model of the universe, there needs to be other material in order to allow for everything to behave as we have witnessed. However, we don't know what this material is, so we call it dark matter. It does not mean a single type of molecule, it relates to any form of matter that has yet to be observed, yet must exist in order to account for observed phenomena. It isn't faith to say that you need something to make that work, it's only faith if you profess what that missing thing is, which science does not.
2. Evolution has mountains of evidence, most of which comes from DNA, not fossils. However, the fossil record does help to identify common elements between species, and further solidify a link between the various stages of evolution.
3. A universe with a creator violates causality, as you cannot explain the origins of the creator, aside from saying it always existed. However, I could say this of the universe, and neither of us would be any closer to being right.
4. Speciation is a thing, you know. The point at which hybridization becomes impossible. This is why dogs, despite looking wildly different by breed, can still be mixed, while a dog and a wolf cannot.
>>69146584
>Therefore the universe has to obey its own laws.
i just gave an example where it doesnt you dence fuck and i didnt even mention shit like physics changing past planck constants (t0 for example). you can try to semantics your way out of this but the facts dont change
>>69146584
>Therefore the universe has to obey its own laws.
After they've been set, maybe. But that does not necessitate any outside force setting them.
>>69146258
"uncaused first cause"
See, that false.
Therefore there is no god.
Also, your god could be as well called "energy" or "dark matter" or "gaia" or some other obscure far-fetched crap cults love these days.
Fact is - there is no god.
>>69146288
Thank you sir, for your honesty. Thats my entire point summed up.
> I needed a purpose in my ife
> Got caught in a traditional cult at my place of birth
>therefore god must exist
And that is simply wrong, I understand that it might give you a purpose It might feel good. But it is a lie meant to control the plebs. Don't be a pleb, find you own purpose in life!
Have a nice day.
>>69137134
>heretic scum
you do not mention the personal god, the god who according to Christianity will hear your prayers and will act upon it.
I want /pol/ to stop responding to shitty bait posts.
>>69147291
NEVER
>>69137439
God is tenth dimensional sentience.
Dark matter is just anything outside of our observable universe. As in, outside of where we can penetrate with light. The universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. Anything we can't see is (to our senses) dark matter. Dark energy is just an explanation for why the expansion of the universe is accelerating. They still have no idea why and never claim to.
ALL WHO BELEVE IN /god, higher intelligence, logos... any of that crap/ PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE or STFU.
Religion is a tool to make plebs fear and give them a sense of purpose in live.
Don't be a pleb.
Accept the truth.
There si no higher power that cares about you.
Grow up.
>the moon and the sun are in such a position to sustain life
>no other planets that we have observed can sustain life like ours can
>SOMEHOW PARTICLES GOT TOGETHER AND MADE THIS PERFECTLY TO SUSTAIN LIFE
Yeah alright
>WHY DOESN'T GOD HELP US IN TORNADOES AND OTHER DISASTERS?!
He made us in his image. See how long it takes for YOU to get bored of playing the sims before you move to a new family.
>>69137134
1. It's called a hypothesis you'll learn about it when you reach the 5th grade.
2. Evolution is observable twice a year.
3. A creator without a creator violates causality.
4. Look up speciation.
>>69138552
It means we share a common ancestor. please go back to middle school biology and listen this time.
>>69146971
We don't know what exactly the universe is expanding into, or what type of process happens at the edge of the existing universe, so there is probably some unknown law governing that
>>69146972
I would argue that something had to set the laws. There is no reason that the universe has to have laws, we could very well have lived in a non-rational universe but we don't.
>ctrl+f
>aliens
>0 results
And you call yourselves red-pilled. Give me a fucking break.
Aliens tampered with out genome for fuck knows how long. A perfect, docile slave race, raised for the same purpose as we raise cattle.
>>69147410
What is this nonsense? If the universe were expanding fast than the speed of light, we wouldn't be able to observe it.
>>69139591
>such as energy levels on stars
Are you sure you fully know what are you talking about?
>fossils
You might want to look into that one.
>bacteria
Yet they still remain bacteria, regardless of the astronomical number of them.
Adaptation =! Evolution, though a necessary aspect of it.
>>69146753
Reincarnation.
Consciousness is as indestructible as matter. Eventually it'll find a new host, though the details are sketchy. Maybe it picks the nearest life achieving sapience, or it waits for another universe cycle to spawn the exact same person. Maybe each life is unique, or maybe we endlessly repeat all finite physical possibilities.
>>69146792
well then, enjoy your sweet nothing ;)
another quality thread
everybody itt needs to fuck off back to >>>/x/
>>69147729
>What is this nonsense? If the universe were expanding fast than the speed of light, we wouldn't be able to observe it.
The correct statement is that parts of it are expanding faster than the speed of light, relative to us.
And, you are correct, those parts we can't observe.
>>69147543
There is a reason the universe has laws, and it essentially boils down to without consistency it would fall apart. Hell, the universe may have tried starting a near infinite number of times before getting rules that kinda work.
Not to mention prior to the universe any concept of cause and effect is irrelevant as that is only somewhat true within the universe.
Please tell me that everyone here is baiting
I like to think that /pol/ is ironic but I'm having some doubts
People here actually think that evolution didn't happen. Let that sink in
>>69148017
Isn't Greece proof that evolution didn't happen?
Okay atheists, what about plants? Plants absorb CO2 from the atmosphere and release oxygen, allowing us to breathe. If evolution gradually took place, it would mean that when plants emerged, they would have killed all of our ancestors by releasing oxygen into the air, changing the atmospheric makeup to which they were accustomed. If a bunch of people were dropped off on Uranus, do you think some of them would survive and and adapt to the atmosphere? Of course not. The emergence of plants would have meant a mass extinction of all non-plant life. According to evolution, your great great great (...) grandfather should have been a tree.
>>69139591
>3. a creator without a creator violates causality
No he doesn't, the concept of causality would only apply to this universe, not necessarily to something that is outside of it, let alone created it.
Why wouldn't such a creator be infinite?
I mean, we don't understand 96% of our own universe, yet we make claims based on your question, about the creator of the universe.
>>69148099
Yeah, we are the same as the ancient Greeks :^)
Even if God exists, it's a pointless topic of discussion because he wouldn't affect your life in any way.
However, I do, because I serve a higher authority.
Expect us.
Ayy.
>>69148316
R A R E
A
R
E
>>69148157
The non-plant life was living in the oceans, unaffected by atmospheric changes. It took creatures coming close to the surface however many millions or billions of years to transition to being able to breath oxygen.
>>69137134
Where did God come from?
>>69148275
>WE WUZ PHILOSOPHERS N THINKERS N SHEEIT
>>69137134
>No one has witnessed a dinosaur evolve into a chicken
>>69147988
So then you must logically believe that the physical laws of the universe are still changing, due to a random process we can't understand
Meanwhile theists would say that the laws of the universe are set because a creator deliberately set them that way, in a way we can't understand
>>69146982
Been there, done that. There is no point is this word, none at all. That is if there's no afterlife. We can rationalize all we want, but in the end there's no reason at all why we should care about this life at all if this is our only existence.
My believe is that the reason we're so uncomfortable in this world, so empty, is that this is not our home. This is not where we're meant to be.
"What would you say to an atheist or agnostic or nihilist or anyone that doesn’t believe in a divine creator of the universe?
First I would say that they are probably thinking of an anthropomorphic God as envisioned by the religious, but that the real divine creator may bear little resemblance to that. Therefore if religion turned them off to the idea of a God, have they considered other more reasonable possibilities for what a divine creator actually is like?
Second, I would ask them, where do you think consciousness comes from? If they say the mind is a byproduct of matter, that consciousness arises as an epiphenomenon (outgrowth) of material causes, then I would ask them, at what physical level does consciousness have its beginnings? The neurons, the chemicals, the molecules, the atoms?
If they say any of those, then I would say, did you know that the brain is a quantum computer, and that the behavior of neurons originates at the atomic and subatomic level? If they say of course, then I would say, did you know that the quantum behaviors of electrons and other subatomic particles have been proven in quantum physics to have no discernible physical causes? That therefore no amount of math or measurement can predict what exactly a subatomic particle will do next? So if consciousness arises from quantum behaviors, then consciousness does not have a physical cause. That is what quantum physicists have determined.
I would say: So you saying that consciousness is an epiphenomenon of material causes is wrong. It arises from nonphysical factors that you don’t know about. And it leads to something that is intelligent, self-aware, creative, and has freewill. If I said that consciousness preceded matter, and that the quantum fluctuations seen in matter which generate all the subsequent physical phenomena are ultimately caused by consciousness, then the brain is not only a quantum computer but a receiving device for a nonphysical consciousness.
Cont.
>>69148796
I would ask: Now let me ask you, where did the universe come from? (They will say Big Bang or that it always existed). Then I say, Stephen Hawking who is considered the smartest and more respected physicist alive, says it emerged into existence due to quantum fluctuations in the vacuum. Now, what causes quantum fluctuations? Not material causes. Therefore the physical universe came into existence from a metaphysical source. There is nothing that disproves the possibility that this metaphysical source was conscious. If they say that I can’t say that because I can’t prove it, then I tell them, then if not a physical factor that caused it, what is it then? If they say they don’t know, then I say, well then you admit ignorance on this point, whereby at least I have a working hypothesis based on principles that also explain how consciousness arises in the brain. Then the debate could go on to finer points.
montalk.net
>>69137134
The best possible choice you can make in all of this nonsense is to believe that there is possibly some sort of higher being who created the beginning and just fucked off and left the universe to unfold on it's own.
>>69148704
>Claims that god created the world 6000 years ago,
>claims dinosaurs roamed with man.
Come on athiests the laws of the universe never change because my sky daddy made them that way!
Holy shit is /pol/ fucking retarded.
>MUH who created God?
>MUH turtles all the way down!
I can't believe you faggots fall for these memes.
>>69148513
That might be impossible for our minds to comprehend.
>>69148704
Why exactly must I logically believe that? The universe exists as far as we can tell, ergo the laws are working and need no change. Each time the universe may have tried to start sure it may randomly pull rules from a hat, but after it stabilizes I don't see why it would need to change much.
>>69146504
>tfw walk the middle ground and get ignored on both sides.
>>69148891
>putting words in my mouth
>>69149041
If the laws were changing until they suddenly "worked" (whatever that would mean from a point of view not biased towards humans, who knows?) what exactly would stop them from changing once they reach the completely arbitrary point of "working?"
>>69148513
God is 10th dimensional sentience.
>>69147468
>the moon and the sun are perfect for sustainable life
For now, yes. It's not a coincidence, it's an inevitability. It's not that is didn't happen anywhere else, it's that it can't.
>somehow particles got together
Keep in mind this took nearly a fifth of the time the universe has existed to happen.
>and made this perfectly
It wasn't made perfectly, everything that wasn't perfect died.
>>69137134
>No one has witnessed a dinosaur evolve into a chicken
You can actually activate dormant genes on a chicken to make it have a tail and teeth like a dinosaur.
>>69149227
Nothing, reality may be throwing out new 'rules' all the time. But I see your logic now and I hadn't considered that.
>>69149069
According to fundementalists in your book that all occured
>>69149473
I'm a Catholic, not a fundamentalist. I don't subscribe to young earth creationism
