![img_8336[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/46WG0Ob.jpg "img_8336[1].jpg")
>gf is an atheist
>I'm anglican (hurr heathen durr) and have been raised as such my whole life
>conversation comes up while cooking dinner as to why she doesn't believe in it
>"I just follow logic too much, anon. "
>"A talking snake? Incarnate deities? Who believes that crap? "
>"If you need answers read a chemistry textbook"
Is she right /pol/? I've always followed Christ's word, and would righteously lay down my life for the faith, but now I'm questioning whether my gf is telling me what I need to hear.
Is it illogical to follow Christ in 2016? I'm starting to think we all look like fools to the rest of the non-believing world.
>>69052147
You're an idiot, you should just read the damn chem book.
>>69052147
she's wrong.
don't question your faith. what are you gay? she is entitled to her own opinion even though it's wrong.
if she follows logic too much present Occam's razor to her and watch her default to female BS.
It's worth noting she's never been to church, despite being baptized.
I went to church every Sunday from 3 to about 15, then 19 to present day.
Does this make a difference as to how she holds her faith?
She sounds like a redditor desu.
Reasonable Faith by WLC. read it. Then BTFO with her 'logic'.
What a fucking moron.
>this book on measuring the hardness of water with EDTA proves there is no god
>this bumble bee scientist has authority in philosophical topics
>probably hasn't even taken organic chemistry
Assert dominance. Shes just a sucker for cultural marxist propaganda.
>>69052147
She trusts a book full of information written down originally centuries ago, and continually updated over the decades. Sound familiar?
Also Chemistry does not refute god.
>>69052470
>>69052463
>>69052448
>>69052308
Hi where are god, ty
>>69052147
>I'm starting to think we all look like fools to the rest of the non-believing world.
Yep, you do. There isn't a counter argument to atheism. Well, not one that isn't pretty easy to shoot down. Literally if you observe the "Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies" rule then you will be an atheist.
So she didn't actually bring out any evidence and only proceeded to insult you. Oh and then tells you to consult a book that typically discusses molecular structure and bonding and maybe themo for answers on the beginnings of the universe, is there life after death and is there a purpose to life?? Your gf sounds quite retarded tbqh pham.
>>69052147
Shes the fucking talking snake. How could you question your faith because of something so simple?
>>69052147
As someone raised without faith, she is going to be very hard to convince and it may even cost you your relationship if you make it a big issue. She should be willing to go to church with you, though. I don't see why someone wouldn't tolerate that.
I personally would just focus on anything else with her.
>>69052147
you have a good gf
>I'm starting to think we all look like fools to the rest of the non-believing world.
you do
>>69052693
>is there life after death and is there a purpose to life
There is no reason to ask the first question and the second is fucking stupid and can't be argued objectively.
>>69052147
There is only one God.
Pic related
>>69052308
Doesn't Occam's razor support her though? I think you're thinking of Pascal's wager. Anyway, hear her out. Follow the morals but a lot of the stories are allegorical or metaphors.
>>69052147
Checkem and Anglican is worst religion ever
Either sides have little to no evidence to combat each other with, also. A talking snake might be an allegory for a con artist. Keep going with your belief. And she can go with hers.
>>69052973
>>69052147
You don't.
My grandfather redpilled my grandmother through sheer silence. He never talked about being a Catholic or asked her why she didn't believe.
He just went to church every Sunday, and got all his kids baptized "because if you're not religious you shouldn't care if they're baptized".
After a number of years she got to thinking there must be something appealing there, and she quickly became a Catholic for the rest of her life.
tldr mind your own fucking business and advise her to do the same. She might come around
>>69052448
Makes a difference to how you hold your faith. Put a group of 30 kids in a building that teaches that the earth is flat every Sunday for 3 hours and find out what % of those kids believe that the earth is flat.
>>69052903
Why do you think those are stupid questions, anon? You and I are going to die one day, aren't you even a little bit curious as to if something happens afterwards?
>>69052448
You've been going to church longer than you've been going to school. That should tell you something right there.
>>69052147
She's right, but /pol/s obsession with cultural preservation means trying to make a religion look like it's real rather than use it's social tenets and cultural elements as a model.
It's true, atheists lack religion and fall for Marxist delusion easier than religious people but science is science, it's given us such mastery of nature, such a comprehension of the universe that to deny it for the scribbling of ancient jews and romans seems stupid,
>>69053038
Atheism doesn't support a proposition so it doesn't require evidence. Since theism is the side making the positive case it's up to theists to provide evidence.
>>69053219
>bringing human emotions into it
That's not how it works.
You should tell her to convert or pay upwards of 20% of her total earnings to you so long as she lives in your house. Seems to work for the Muslims.
>>69052955
It does, christian's try to use Occam's anyway though.
In the end, Occam's Razor doesn't mean anything either way anyway. It has no factual basis in either direction. Sometimes things have simple answers, sometimes it is extremely complex.
>>69052147
Ask her what she thinks of Aristotle's entomological theory: that is that we can not truly know anything.
Remind her that facts require proof, otherwise it's just a belief.
Ask her to prove that her belief in a lack of God is anything more than that, a belief.
After she proves her self to be ignorant of philosophy and theology, drop her stupid ass and find a woman worthy of you.
Fuck dumb whores why are you wasting your time with this cunt?
>>69052147
Just tell her you think the Transylvanian usurper whore Queen Elizabeth the 2nd is not only "royal," but the one true Pope as well.
If she doesn't fucking break up with you over that, she's a retarded whore and I don't want her.
>>69053296
Not all Athesist are sjws. Some of us hate them more than anyone else.
>>69053071
this is a smart thing to do.
>>69052147
Once dated a atheist, never again.
>her dad is a retired preacher
>thus she has a full retard hatred of all things christian for some reason
>know her dad and was never overly pushy about religious shit
>meanwhile he could be just talking and she'd find a way to spin it at him pushing religion on her, him being sexist, etc. while he just looked at her half confused at her shit.
>she wasn't welcome at many of her relatives homes anymore after she kept trying to steal family bibles to destroy/burn
>local church has a big Halloween thing every October
>bitch would get into a screaming fit If I ever tried to take her to it
>would openly try to start shit with a female friend that is religious
Been broke up with her a few years now, last I heard about her through a friend of a friend was she was now actively for muslims rapefugees
![woman-biting-her-lip[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YmJYGLD.jpg "woman-biting-her-lip[1].jpg")
>>69053384
You're so strong and manly rejecting human emotions like an austismo sperglord mmmmmmh
>>69053509
>entomological
What have insects got to do with it?
>>69053071
>tldr mind your own fucking business and advise her to do the same. She might come around
Seem to be ignoring Jesus' Great Commission by doing that.
>>69053384
That's not how what works? Having a discussion? In any case, let me try that again for you:
Why do you think those are stupid questions, anon?
Slap her around, assert dominance and put the fear of God in her
>>69052147
low quality bait
atheists make better arguments than you 'gf'
>>69053110
Now teach every kid Earth is a globe, they will believe it' a globe.
Earth is flat senpai.
>>69052147
schrodingers cat, the cat is both alive and dead. For something to be false there needs to be proof that it is false. Evolution happened sure, but how did it happen? Greater powers then us set that in motion and to tell me i am wrong i would need proof.
>>69053509
>Ask her to prove that her belief in a lack of God is anything more than that, a belief.
The literal fuck? Are you one of these new born again /pol/ christian neckbeards? Jesus fuck, you do understand you're just spouting garbage.
>>69052147
>I'm starting to think we all look like fools to the rest of the non-believing world.
You do, especially when you post pictures of fedoras as your only argument. The least you could do is convert to Catholicism, some form of Buddhism, or Sihk, those are the only religions Atheists like and respect.
>>69053657
>>69053640
Oh shit, I'm getting memed on. Time for my Trump card.
I'm a psychopath. Convert me you fat fucks.
>>69053509
This is the most retarded bullshit I have ever heard. You need to learn about BURDEN OF PROOF, asshole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KayBys8gaJY
>>69052147
If she loves logic so much ask her what she thought of Aristotle's Metaphysics
>>69052147
Cut her loose man. Try to find yourself a nice religious girl or at least one with an open mind.
>>69052614
>There isn't a counter argument to atheism.
The only argument there is no counter-argument for is a non-argument.
Something that is not arguable cannot be argued.
Do you fucking even listen to the stupid shit that drips down your chin?
>atheism isn't arguable, I know because I'm an atheist and I'm undefeated in internet arguments where I move the goalposts, launch ad hominems, use strawman arguments, beg the question, invent contrived excuses to dismiss all evidence that I actually believe are legitimate, and when all else fails, accuse the opponent of using logical fallacies.
>>69052147
I'm a Catholic, although a bad one at that. I jumped on the whole atheism train at school because it was cool. At uni a bunch of us took the piss out of a girl because she was devoutly Christian and a tad gullible to boot. It didn't feel right desu, but fresher's so try and fit in. Fast forward and while a lot of us have jobs in well paid industries, Amy (who graduated with a music degree of all things) is the only one in a devoted marriage (I.e. not single or divorced at 25). Her husband isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but those two are happy as fuck. Thank God they're from money.
Take from that what you will
>>69053867
Aristotle was a pagan, so clearly Aristotelian metaphysics doesn't demonstrate the validity of Christianity.
>>69052147
OP you basically come to the realization that every fucking religion is the same shit. There are literally thousands and the fact is there is only one truth about everything. The chances that any religion is actual truth is next to nothing. All religions say they are true, all religions say other religions lie. Don't you see something wrong here? How do you just accept the religion you were born into without realizing this is what everyone does?
Atheists don't believe in no religions because they want to be rebels or some shit they don't believe because there is absolutely no reason to pick one religion over any other. Whatever truth there is we simply don't know what it is, so until we know just live life the way you think is good. If you still chose religion that's fine, but there is no reason to justify believing in it for anything more than just wanting to. If some truth exists to where one religion is the true one and you are punished for not believing in it then it is pretty immoral since that truth hasn't made itself blatantly known to people, and no reason to believe or honor such immorality in the first place.
worst thing you can do is try to justify anything in the bible. it's full of errors and fallacies.
the only argument available to you as a believer is something based 100% on feels and gut reaction. you just have to frame everything that way until the atheist gets tired of hearing it.
>>69052147
>anglican
Its literally catholicism+divorce, your church is a joke.
>>69052448
You've been severely brainwashed, she hasn't. Off yourself or stop believing in life-spoiling lies.
>>69053939
You could read my next sentence, but being American I assume that reading the whole post is a bit of a challenge for you.
>>69052147
>Is it illogical to follow Christ in 2016?
In the way of believing magical man in the sky? Yes, a little bit, but she shouldnt judge you for it.
In a good moral guiding way to live your life? No, the worlds gets more and more fucked up and it's a nice way to remember what is wrong and what is right.
Religion and faith in most cases is a healthy part of life that allows people to have ethical stability and happier life in general.
Keep believing if that makes you happy OP.
>>69053811
The burden of proof is on you to prove that the universe was created 20 billion years ago when nothing exploded.
>>69052147
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Try some of the resources here. Of course watch and use them yourself. Become familiar with the tools. Don't just start spouting off stuff to her.
Ignore the Hebrew bit. Don't go in over your head. Just use the concordance like everyone else.
Is there anyone on this board that is unironically Christian?
>>69053509
This.
As far back as Descarte's Cogito Ergo Sum, you can trace empiricism as a radical leap of faith. Hell, if you tell her about Hume's bundle theory, she's going to lose her shit.
About the only genuine thing you can believe in is
A). Some form of consciousness that is you, exists.
B). The only things you can reasonably believe to exist outside yourself are things that that form of consciousness (you) can assemble a priori. Like math, and logic, and reason.
This is the basis of fideism and the thomist philosophy of the catholic church. I don't know what your heathen Anglican church teaches but this certainly trumps the empiricist notion of empirical proof being law. I can't really even prove that you're not a figment of my imagination, how can I believe your confirmation of my findings are really even valid?
However, if you find a logical fallacy in my line of thinking, that's just as valid as me finding a logical fallacy in my line of thinking QED motherfucker.
>>69053958
>Ripping on Catholics
>At University of all fucking places
Grow up. Jesus would not stand for this. I bet you made that girl feel insecure about displaying her faith in public.
Disgusting act. I'll be praying for you this morning at church.
>>69053991
>Atheists don't believe in no religions because they want to be rebels or some shit
Some actually are. Quite a lot of them actually. They grow up of it and then spew bullshit about how they were atheists before they were convinced by some shitty argument or some nonsense like this.
>>69052448
Thats not faith, thats indoctrination.
If your faith is really that important to you i would suggest breaking up with her and finding a Christian gf. You can't convince a non believer intellectually. They have to find the path themselves. Most people never do
>>69054073
>The burden of proof is on you to prove that the universe was created 20 billion years ago when nothing exploded.
No, it isn't. That would have no bearing on the existence or nonexistence of God.
>>69052147
its not like faith and science can't coexist
but you may want to take a hard look at what you interpret literally from your faith and what you take as more a literary device or fable
We can learn lessons through analogy and exposition and we don't have to take them literally
when someone tells you the story of the tortoise and the hair do you really believe that somewhere some talking animals grouped together and decided to race one another? or do you understand the meaning behind the story and adapt your values to incorporate its lessons?
being a better person because of the lessons learned from religion is a very positive thing. Being a delusional person that believes in fairy tales is something different altogether
>>69054059
Oh, so you're not wrong because you really didn't say anything in the first place.
You have never been in an argument before, you do not know what an argument is. You think an argument is two people yelling and whoever insults the other the loudest wins.
I'm not religious in particular but go to church to remind myself of how grateful I am to be alive.
Plus the music and architecture is beautiful
>>69052147
Passages being quoted in the Bible are cherrypicked specifically to cater to your mental frailty. You should follow Deuteronomy 17:3-5 and Ezekiel 23:20
>>69054417
That just means Jesus hasn't found you yet.
Keep going to church anon. One day you will change your life for the better.
>>69054150
Empericism is faith that what will happen will resemble that which has come before, in other words that there will be no miracles.
I do hold this faith
>>69054408
Quote me. Go on, quote my post in its entirety,
>>69052147
>>69053071
>>69053657
>nitpicking
Do whatever you want bro. My point is that no argument has to be had at all. Tbqh with you, only autists have it out with each other about whether God is real or whatever. You should just be steady in your own faith, and leave hers (or lackthereof) up to her.
Sorry OP the simple fact is you believe in and would die for something that there is zero evidence for/of. I follow catholism and my kids will too one day for its moral teachings, not because of the hocus pocus divine stuff.
>>69054292
It sure would, it goes against Genesis.
You prove that, you prove the Bible is fake and therefore that the God of the Bible is fake.
Shame about how the case is still open even though you really, really, really wish it could just be closed so you could enjoy your homosexual buttsex in peace.
>>69054150
>The only things you can reasonably believe to exist outside yourself are things that that form of consciousness (you) can assemble a priori. Like math, and logic, and reason.
One of those things is not a God, you fucking moron, and if it was it would be a goddamn mental construct.
>>69052870
Whenever I get shit for being a believer I use the double-slit experiment, coding language found in particle physics equations, and the fact that Big Bang scientists changed their mind and say the universe has existed forever to defend myself. Just because "popular science" says there's no God doesn't mean there isn't one. I'm a chemical engineer by trade and have always delighted in understanding the world around me. To me, a world without a God is an equation without any parameters, useless and utterly meaningless.
>>69054326
The problem is that it's not that easy to choose what take literally, what allegorically and what ignore. Is story the whole story of exodus just an allegory? Since finding a historian who sees it as something more than as complete confabulation is basically impossible. Are things said about king david and king salomon just a fairy tale since archeological excavations show them to be gross extravasations at best?
>>69053110
>gigantomastia
>Oedipus complex gone pathological
>>69052147
Take her down to your local mosque and ask if you can wash some refugee's feet. Maybe that will move her heart.
>>69054572
So you're a fake Christian?
>>69052147
She's correct.
>>69052147
Slap her in the face again and again, till she says "jesus stop".
Then mouthfuck her to oblivion.
>>69052604
>>69053048
>>69053384
>>69053749
>>69054604
>trying this hard
just give up and gtfo m8, you're a failure
>>69054021
>it's full of errors and fallacies.
Bullshit. The Bible described germs thousands of years before anyone else, told people the earth is round and described dinosaurs
>>69054223
>Grow out of agnostic mentality
So they get dumber? I don't see how going from a logical objective viewpoint to an illogical decision on what truth is without anything other than a feeling is "growing out of it."
>>69054649
Oh my God, the people that are afraid of a meaningless universe are joining the thread, how does it feel to be emotionally stuck in middle school.
>>69054741
I'm going to keep posting dubsman
>>69054573
The nonexistence of talking snakes goes against Genesis, mate. More widely we know what happened after one millionth of a second after the big bang and that it happened roughly 13.7 billion years ago. Genesis is not a literal account of the origins of the universe, far from it.
>>69054513
But you have literally
L I T E R A L L Y
No reason to believe this. If every single apple you've ever seen and eaten is either red or yellow, and I show you a green apple, you're going to feel like a wanker.
Your reply might be: such is empiricism, it adapts and conforms to new information.
Yet. I could show you a purple apple. An orange apple. An apple that embodies a color that should not be able to exist. These are all things that contradict your faith. Especially when it comes to intelligence; the internet is borderline a miracle. It has absolutely no precedent. It resembles nothing that's come before it.
Science only answers how, not why.
>>69054326
Do you understand that the Prophets wrote down Historical events before they happened?
And then the Historical events they wrote about happening happened?
Do you realize that there are over 2,000 prophesies in the Bible contained in 60 books written by 40 authors over a period that lasted over 2,000 years?
http://www.reasons.org/articles/articles/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-for-the-reliability-of-the-bible
Do you realize that's not quite the same thing as a story about a tortoise and a hare?
>>69054788
They grow up from their shallow, reactionary atheism. They are as dumb as they were before, they just aren't rebellious anymore.
>>69054758
It also gives an incorrect value of π. :^)
>>69053593
Not implying that, I already know that a good amount of /pol/ is atheist.
I'm more speaking of the idea of athiesm vs. religion on /pol/. If you look at history faith was a strong unifier. It was indeed abused almost constantly by the elite, but in those times the elite were at the very least for their nation and for their people. /pol/ looks make and believes that a nation unified under a religion was a more nationalistic nation, which is arguably true.
In this modern era, people become athiest and are freed of all their stresses regarding the religion, opening them up to either seeking hedonism or worse, marxism.
The first is negative in the sense that most hedonists do not want to breed, seeing child reering as cutting out a large portion of their potential enjoyment in life. To /pol/ and it's population fixation, this is an immense negative.
The second is Marxism, an ideology unrelated to athiesm but always trying to convert atheists to itself. If you're free of religion, the marxists will constantly temp you a sense of fulfillment(in the form of being a good person) by adhering to their reasoning.
>>69054758
>The Bible described germs thousands of years before anyone else, told people the earth is round and described dinosaurs
No. It didn't. It told people to wash their hands. That's why there's no mention of germs until the 1880s.
>>69054883
There is no true "why", there is this thing called subjectivity.
>>69052929
Cв. Пeтap Meмcки
>>69053731
>but how did it happen?
It's in the definition leaf.
>>69054758
We knew the earth was round before the bible was written and the Greeks knew it first.
>>69054673
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-v6dzIrGR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d90NM9tgDQE
Find a Historian who can explain how those chariots got there.
A real Historian really commenting on it, not just some cheeky anon who will take a wild guess without even looking at any of the evidence.
>>69052147
faith in god is fundamentally an irrational thing, i thought that was the entire point for you fags? like, its not faith if you can prove it
>>69054739
>>69055006
Just making sure you weren't implying it's more logical to take on faith than to be skeptical and objective.
>>69053749
By that logic you should be able to PROVE to me that God doesn't exist. If you cannot, then it is still merely a belief.
And if you're going to take that up, choose actual proofs and not theories.
>>69054729
When you don't believe in Christ, it's not called "Christianity," it's called "Churchianity."
And it's the people who teach that stuff to their children who burn in Hell.
>>69055278
Go jump off a building and see if gravity is just a theory.
>>69055278
If you're arguing an agnostic viewpoint I have no beef with you
>>69055229
THERE IT IS EVERYONE
>>69052147
Dinosaurs. Why no mention of them in Genesis?
I want to give you an answer but I don't understand the issue.
Is she saying the Christianity cannot be right because the shit in the Bible didn't happen as was presented? I was under the assumption that most Christians accepted that the stories were allegories and parables rather than strict historical accounts.
I also find that most atheists only understand religion on a surface level. For example, they believe the myth that science and religion are opposed to one another or otherwise incapable. That's pretty retarded.
They also don't understand that naturalism doesn't allow freewill which kind of makes their "decision" to follow or believe in logic pointless.
Basically, don't argue with atheists. Your girlfriend cannot understand religion from your perspective.
>>69052147
Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. - G.K. Cheserton
>>69055416
>Under the assumption that most Christians accepted the stories were allegories
There are thousands of variations of Christianity, some don't and some do.
>>69052955
And Pascal only stated his wager because his writings got him accused of being atheist so he had to give a plauaible 'logical' reason why he believed in God.
Having to say he believed in God to the Man must've irked him because the argument he gave would suffice to placate the whiners that were offendwd by his atheistic prose, but could easily be refuted by the logic to be found in his mathematical writings which t
Hr was evidently confident neither the inquisitor nor the ones who had dropped the dime on him had read.
Gutsy move and an inside joke for his mathematically inclined fans.
Show her this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz2ocfYAFJs
>>69055187
Irrationality is cognition, thinking, talking or acting without inclusion of rationality. It is more specifically described as an action or opinion given through inadequate use of reason, emotional distress, or cognitive deficiency.
>inadequate use of reason
I wouldn't say that having faith means you aren't using reason. One could look at the complexity of the universe and come to the conclusion that there must be some sort of creator which might fit into the definition of 'god'.
>>69055391
>If you're arguing an agnostic viewpoint I have no beef with you
so you *do* have beef with religious people?
>Thinking you're supposed to take the bible literally
>>69055170
Actually historians don't even talk about who red sea thing since there is no reason for them to do so. Exodus story is impossible not because miracles but because there were no jews to even escape egypt. Time in egyptian history at which jews were supposedly going out from there is quite well documented and guess what? No jews. Also bible says about 3 millions of them. Can you imagine logistics of such exodus? It's just mind boggling.
>>69054854
>I've never heard a snake talk, therefore no snake has ever or could ever talk, because "snake" is a Platonic ideal, not a word that describes trillions of animals that have existed, of which I have sampled less than a fraction of a fraction of 1%.
>How big of a sample size do you need? One snake, endless trillions of snakes, what's the difference?
>No God! No God! I can be gay if I waaaaaant!
>>69055467
>Reason is itself a matter of faith.
Actually it's empirically verifiable. If your facts are correct reason will lead you to the right answer every time.
>>69055393
Well they're just another form of animal. The environment of the pre-flood world would have fostered conditions where lizards could grow to be very big.
>>69055467
Reasoning based on math is faith now?
Sick bro
>>69055560
Depends on what they assert.
>>69052448
>Gee does being indoctrinated every Sunday make a difference
>>69055620
Hehehe, brilliant.
You know what? Record a snake talking and I'll convert. The burden of proof is on you, since you're making the claim that snakes can talk.
Also, I'm not gay and glad of it.
>>69055620
A snake cannot communicate with a human through a common tongue unless it fucking evolved a proper set of vocal chords and interacted with humans at the time of speaking to them
>>69054827
>Being this much of a faggot.
"The goal of science is to describe the universe. The goal of religion is to describe the most abundant life that man may possess in such a universe."
There's no dissonance there, it's a meme as old as 4chan
>>69055834
Who's to say it communicated verbally?
>>69055834
It was created by God in such way that it could talk, duh!
>>69055614
And you believe this in contradiction to direct physical evidence, huh?
You're as stupid as the "Historians."
You know you are talking about Egyptologists, right?
The same guys you would criticize at any other time for their total lack of academic rigor become paragons of academic intellectualism when you desire to believe in their bullshit.
>>69055878
That was put very nicely, thanks.
>>69055910
>Who's to say it communicated verbally?
The bible.
>>69055852
"I like to take muhammads dick up my ass every night"
-you
>>69055910
I've been memed on again!
>>69055006
And the Talmud will tell the exact ratio of what pi is, and the commentaries will explain how the exact measurement is hinted in the Bible and why it rounds to the nearest number.
But of course, you don't give a shit.
>>69052147
Are you dumb OP? Of course it's not illogical to follow Christ in ANY freaking year. Christ is the Lord before he was born, and he'll be Lord after the earth is gone.
Your gf is clearly disrespecting your beliefs. Sure a talking snake is odd, but who knows? Maybe it wasn't literally a talking snake, maybe it was. We don't know everything, and a damn chemistry book won't help that's for sure.
>>69055661
>actually believes in the ark as something more than a metaphor
What's the big deal in believing in a talking snake or not? Does it change you as a person holistically. I doubt it.
>I'm starting to think we all look like fools to the rest of the non-believing world.
Is this the basis of your faith?
Watch this short video if you want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io1sNfw9-TA
>>69055823
>Record a snake talking and I'll convert.
Show me a snake that evolved into a dog.
>>69052147
>"A talking snake? Incarnate deities? Who believes that crap? "
If that's what your religion is, then she's right.
If that's not what your religion is, then you wouldn't need us to give you a response.
I'm atheist but I don't go debating people that believe in God. As such, I'm not keen on letting those people debate my own choices.
But well, I do think that people who believe are just self illusionists, as they do believe in what, for me, it's just another form of control over the ignorant masses.
Also we are pretty arrogant to raise our eyes to the sky and pray for nothing-yet-to-reveal-itself while destroying the Earth under our feet where our atoms we're made with come from.
>>69056027
DUDE
MATH
LMAO
What if God was math? :^)
Spirituality and Deities are fine, generally religions are stupid.
It's much harder to disprove God than it is to disprove any religion.
>>69052147
OP, if she has the gall to cite science texts as the source of all answers, then she's a bad 'scientist'.
Real science is the discovery of the unknown as the result of evidence and as such we must accept that there is much that we don't know, phenomena that cannot be observed or executed with present technologies.
An atheist is as much as a scientist as a bible-thumping evangelican that claims evolution is the debil's work.
It's arrogant to assume that a recently developed species that still has to label coffee as hot knows the full and correct order of the universe.
Your slag is that human burning herself on coffee.
>>69056101
>Catholics
I'm starting to see most Catholics don't even believe in Christ.
>>69054875
Saying that what happens will resemble that which has come before makes no claims that I have seen all there is to see 'before'. The new apples did not appear because of a miracle, they werw rge product of a process which existed before them.
And I have no reason to believe my o e article of faith. That is what malea it an article of faith. I choose to believe it because it seems to work heuristically.
>>69055510
Sure but she seems to think they all do. You just need to tell her that that's not the case.
>>69055014
I like your line of thinking. Most atheists seem to think that people use religion as a means of answering questions that science could answer for them.
They seem to neglect the social and psychological use of religion.
>>69055878
This guy's got it.
>>69055834
Since the snake talked before the Tower of Babel, why would it talk in a common tongue?
You atheists always say the Bible is inaccurate but then your evidence is always a wildly inaccurate recounting of the Bible.
Like you don't know the difference between the Bible and your own strawman arguments.
>>69052147
You're both morons. The bible is not meant to be taken literally. Ask anyone that has a studied theology and he will tell you that.
>>69056234
You're literally retarded if you think the Ark was real. We'd be able to see a massive flood in the archaeological record.
>>69056130
>Show me a snake that evolved into a dog.
I can show you that snakes and dogs have a common ancestor but no one claims that dogs evolved from snakes. Also the validity of evolution has no bearing on the existence of a God. God could have used evolution. All evolution says is that Genesis is not true.
>>69052147
The answer is pretty clear, friend.
2 Corinthians 6:14-16
Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
And also:
1 Corinthians 7:12-16
But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
As I said, a pretty clear matter.
>Following a Jewish cuck who died a virgin
JUST
>>69055991
Verse?
>>69055936
>direct physical evidence
This shit is not "evidence". All they got is some blurry photos of fuck knows what. Even assuming that this "artifacts" are indeed chariot wheels (big jump) and are from the time corresponding to the supposed exodus (even bigger jump) there are dozens more likely explanations of how they got there. For example they could be accidentally dropped during transport. But again, we don't know what the actual fuck those structures are aside of the assertions of people making the photos that they are wheels.
>>69056307
>Since magic happened you are wrong
Well I don't need to read the fucking bible with these stupid goddamn retorts that are coming out of your ass.
>>69055372
Would you say the big bang theory is a proof or a theory? Or maybe there's a better word for it.
>>69056364
Are you calling God a liar?
>>69052147
My story is a bit odd. Paternal grandfather was a southern baptist preacher but not one who spread his shit on people who didn't want to hear it. My maternal grandfather was a Nazarene preacher also like my other one and wouldn't force shit on others.
Father was a party christian growing up. Mother grew up a fundamentalist Christian.
I grew up with all of that but I got to choose whether to believe or not, I believe but don't believe that I HAVE to go to church.
I last went to Church a year ago and before that I went about three years. (I do go on religious holidays, but I don't count it BC it's not consecutive). I don't force my shit on others and probably most people who don't know my family background think I am agnostic or atheist.
Let your GF believe what she wants and you yours BUT if she keeps trying to talk condescendingly at you then you need to think about breaking up with her. If she cares for you then she'll let you be you.
>>69056144
>What if God was math? :^)
Read a book called "Our mathematical universe" by Max Tegmark.
>>69052147
What are metaphors Pajet?
>>69052147
>have been raised as such my whole life
here's your problem, OP -- your infant mind was raped
>>69055823
Pretty sure it was a magic snake, bro.
>>69056043
Nigga when you aren't born into religion it's pretty fucking obvious when everyone spouts the same bullshit about their religion. Every other religion is a lie to them, every one is stupid but theirs isn't. They hold on to their religion for the same reasons you do. Looking at it objectively you can see how probably none of them are actually right. What the girlfriend is probably saying is whatever the actual truth is we don't know, but instead of worrying about that actually learn about what we can and do know about.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
I pray you all do more research.
>>69056474
No, I'm saying the Bible has inaccuracies. God didn't write the Bible, people did. Also, for the record, God does lie. He lied to Abraham when God told Abraham that he wanted his son sacrificed.
>>69055393
Why should there be a mention of them? Did they change the story of the Bible enough that it had to be written about?
There is no proof from the Bible.
>>69056027
So are you a jew, i didn't knew that. Because you know, talmud also says quite a few nasty things about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
>>69056578
Is that why literally no one converts between religions and no one raised atheist becomes a Christian?
>>69052147
>How I convince my gf there's a magic sky man watching your every move, reading your every thought
Literally imposible. Can only be done if an authority figure imposed the belief on your infancy when you had no critical thought, forming a blind spot in your logic. Impossible otherwise.
>>69052147
you honestly believe theres an invisible sky wizard looking over you.. who does fuckall and theres 0 evidence of the divine, but because someone put it in a story book.. its true?
>>69056459
>Would you say the big bang theory is a proof or a theory? Or maybe there's a better word for it.
It's a theory and therefore made up of a multitude of facts and therefore proofs.It's not like you can ignore the existence of the cosmic microwave background or argue that the universe isn't expanding etc etc.
>>69056480
What's the point of going to Church on holidays when you don't believe?
>>69053110
I really really like this gif
>>69055560
yeah but theres a difference in believing there cound be a deity and full on religious faith, full on religious faith is inherently irrational, i mean each holy book pretty much has an equal claim to be the truth, the only way you know which one to follow is just feeling that its right
this is how i understand it anyway
my personal belief is that if god exists then he created everything in the world so following his wishes should come naturally and following a religion or not is irrelevant.
>>69056582
>Praise songs that my wife says are a valuable part of her worship life. She gave me links with lyrics, because she sings along with them.
>>69052147
I appreciate your skepticism darling, and I will believe twice as hard just for you!
smooches
>>69056702
>theres 0 evidence of the divine
Except for the incredible world that you live in?
>>69056527
>Pretty sure it was a magic snake, bro.
It's turning out to be lizardkin of tumblr at this rate. Comes from zeta fucking reticuli and is related to George Bush and the Queen or something.
>>69052147
>cuck: the post
It's 2016. Why are you even dignifying a female's opinions by debating her, instead of dominating and imposing your views on her. If you really can't do that, at least don't go further than humouring her and laughing about her silly ideas to yourself afterwards. But actually taking her seriously??? It's just a matter of time till your gf fucks a nigger you effeminate beta.
Even if Christianity weren't true, which it is, it would still be LOGICALLY beneficial to society because Plato's noble lie. Compare modern society with pic related. Is it better in any objective sense.
You don't have to read stories about talking snakes literally. Some of the Bible is metaphorical/allegorical. Some isn't. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide your reading.
A chemistry book is not the whole truth and taken alone is not intellectually satisfying unless you're an autist and your autistic obsession is chemistry.
>>69056391
>I can show you that snakes and dogs have a common ancestor but no one claims that dogs evolved from snakes. Also the validity of evolution has no bearing on the existence of a God. God could have used evolution. All evolution says is that Genesis is not true.
Evolution says that all life evolved from rocks that got rained on for billions of years and it turned into soup and the soup came alive and from thus sprang single-celled organisms even though we can't recreate the same effect when we recreate the same conditions, because we can't account for the presence of oxygen, so we just leave it out, because facts get in the way of our proof. They have a pesky habit of destroying our elaborately-argued theories that we admit are based on circular logic when we use fossils to date rocks and rocks to date fossils.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY0rj-TEx4o
>>69052448
Were you by chance an atheist from 15 to 19?
>>69056706
to be fair there have been some recent studies claiming the universe is eternal that havn't been entirely rejected by mainstream science
>>69056892
CLASSIC
Irrelevant. Since the other universes that don't have you in them, you cannot and will never experience.
>>69053296
Science has given us mastery of nothing, we did not already possess mastery of before it's epistemological adoption.
The next time you feel the urge to wax on about our "mastery of nature", remember that the height of medical science boils down to temporarily holding broken parts of the body together in the hopes they eventually heal themselves, and reflect upon your hubris.
>>69056474
I think he's calling you a moron. I don't think an actual God would do something that's so ridiculous even a human can see its flaws. If a God "made a mistake" then why do correct it in such a dumb way?
>>69054957
do you realize that Nostradomis also predicted hundreds of events that have yet to happen?
did you know that the Simpsons predicted Donald Trump would run for president in 2016?
when you put a million chimps in a room with a million typewriters some of them are bound to write something that makes sense
and if you put a billion chimps in a room with a billion typewriters one of them is going to write the next great american novel
alongside your "accurate" predictions there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of predictions that turned out wrong and were forgotten
>>69054673
this is a more reasonable argument
it is hard to determine where fact and fiction begin
but its not really about drawing perfect lines but more the process of understanding that maybe not everything written in holy texts should be taken literally
that simple step is what separates the majority of modern religions from Islam today and is the largest step in religion coexisting with modern independent thought.
>>69056848
That's exactly what I said to her afterwards.
>>69056959
>Evolution says that all life evolved from rocks that got rained on for billions of years
No, that's abiogenesis. Evolution explains what happens after life comes into existence, not how it came into existence in the first place.
>>69052614
Ok, prove it. Mr. "No logical fallacies", you made a claim. Burden of proof
>>69057060
>remember that the height of medical science boils down to temporarily holding broken parts of the body together in the hopes they eventually heal themselves
Oh my fuck. That's some prime-ass bait.
>>69056364
How do you think fossilized clams got on top of Mt. Everest?
Why do you think the Colorado river that flows through the Grand Canyon would have had to have flowed uphill 3,000 feet and backwards too in order to cut that canyon?
The problem for geological evidence of a Great Flood is that it only exists out in the field, not in textbook drawings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY0rj-TEx4o
>>69057013
>to be fair there have been some recent studies claiming the universe is eternal that havn't been entirely rejected by mainstream science
This is true but they don't reflect the consensus. Personally I believe that we live in a block universe and that it and we are eternal but I'd rather argue from the dominant explanation because it'd only confuse things not to.
is it ok for me to assume le serpent meme and the like is either a mistranslation or a symbol?
>>69056667
Does that mean that I should renounce the Talmud because it shits on your "prophet?" I have enough reasons to support it and explain why Jesus was a massive pile of horseshit.
>>69056959
>evolution = abiogenesis
Either read a basic biology text, or even fucking wikipedia, or perform Sudoku
>>69057093
You believe that something came from nothing. My faith could never be that strong. It's not pragmatic, it's unquranic. It violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Think about it, but don't take too long.
>>69057169
>That would require you throwing some arguments at me so that I can demonstrate how they're all wrong.
>>69056934
I'm actually alpha though, probably the most alpha person in this thread.
She's not slipping out of my grasp. I can have my woman under my control as well as dignify her. She's pretty beta and has no other male friends aside from her brothers.
>>69057060
> technology
> mastery of nothing we did not already possess
I feel like you guys aren't even trying anymore.
2/10
>>69056711
I guess I didnt clarify that well. I believe in Jesus and Christianity but don't believe that you have to go to Church all the time to be a Christian. Religion should be about your relationship with God and Jesus and not a group or community thing. That said I go on holidays because those times I feel are an exception because things like Christmas and Easter are celebrations of Christ and celebrations should be a community thing.
>>69052147
>Is it illogical to follow Christ
Yes, believing in magic is for children and old women, not grown men.
>>69052147
>jews claim they were enslaved in egypt
>there is no evidence of this
>claim they used magic to escape into the desert
>magic isn't fucking real
>claim they wandered in the desert for 50 years
>when asked what they ate for 50 years they made up some bullshit about magic bread that rained from the fucking sky every few days
>mfw christians unironically believe this story is historical fact
So what about you OP. Do you actually think there was a point in the meteorological history of the planet Earth where it rained bread in the desert every few days for 50 years? Or do you think the jews might have told a fib?
>>69057240
yeah not trying to shoot down your argument they're just interesting studies
>>69056578
I don't think "Who believes in that crap?" = "You should learn more about the world before making a judgement call on whether one religion is right or wrong". She was clearly mocking him.
And sure that's probably true, like you'd be more likely to convert to __ if you were raised in __. Everyone has their story though, but you never know. And everyone doesn't spout the same bullshit about their religion, you must not be paying attention, or they must be very ignorant of whatever religion it is they are part of. People who don't come to Christ aren't necessarily stupid, and in fact there are many extremely smart atheists. It's just that it takes a leap of faith to follow Christ, even when most of the world tells you not to make the leap. I don't know, I'm just ranting now.
>>69057081
blind faith is always the best policy.. truly we are like gullible children when compared to him that we have not see but heard of in a book!
>>69056130
Who claims that happened? Shut up christfaggot.
>>69057060
in greek mythology Icarus flew to close to the sun and died for his hubris
in modern history we strapped jet fuel to a fuselage and landed on the fucking moon
our wings didn't melt
fuck hubris
>>69057480
Fuckin kikes
>>69057244
Oh, did i strike a nerve? Are you afraid that your god knowing less about pi than contemporary egyptians makes him weak? That your people were chosen by a divine retard that could save them from centuries of slavery and genocide?
Seems like you think atheist are so edgy in the us because most are raised as christians. Im an atheist and i know i cant prove that he exist but doesnt it seems kinda weird that some guy created us and this whole universe acually gives a fuck about we do with our lifes? Eveyone thinks they are a special fucking snowflake and think that their lifes have to have a meaning
>>69057480
There were lots of nomadic tribes in the Middle East at the time. If anything, the area the Jews were probably roaming around in (The Sinai peninsula area) was one of the more hospitable places. They could've survived there for 40 years or so easily.
>>69057297
>You believe that something came from nothing. My faith could never be that strong. It's not pragmatic, it's unquranic. It violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Think about it, but don't take too long.
Actually, I don't believe that. I believe in an eternal block universe which doesn't require a god. Although here I am arguing from the dominant paradigm of the big bang, but even the big bang doesn't say that something came out of nothing. It says that we know everything that happened up until one millionth of a second after the bang.
>>69056480
No, you don't have to go to church. The mere faith in Christ is enough to save you. Church is a means to learn Christian morality and study the Bible.
>>69056711
Respect for family or appreciation for what you have.
>>69057563
I think the Icarus story was a metaphor, bro.
>>69057093
>Evolution explains what happens after life comes into existence, not how it came into existence in the first place.
Does Evolution explain why all animals are much, much smaller and weaker and shorter-lived than their prehistoric ancestors if they're supposed to be "evolving?" and improving all the time?
If she "follows logic too much" then ask her about her opinions on Godels incompleteness theorems
>>69057613
Ok, where did the Big Bang come from, if not for God? There must have been an outside force.
>>69053366
Really? So if I say Evolution isn't real I don't need to prove myself? Nice
>>69057093
You do know that the Big Bang Theory makes no claims that something came from nothing right? It only states how the universe came to where it is now from the earliest point there is actual evidence for, which is about the size of a grain of sand. It makes no claims that it was once nothing, just that the universe has expanded from a very small size to a very large size which there is a fuckton of evidence for.
>>69052147
Faith and religion have nothing to do with proof unless you're trying to argue it. So the short answer is
>don't bother
the long answer involves quoting Christian Apologetic writers like C. S. Lewis. And honestly that is a mess, but at the end of the day no one can be "right" about it, because no positive nor negative evidence is enough to prove the point either way. The best way is to know that a conviction like yours doesn't require evidence unless you try to push it onto her
>>69057668
NATURAL
SELECTION
IS
NOT
HARD
TO
UNDERSTAND
WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING IS THE ALTERNATIVE?????
>>69057668
>Does Evolution explain why all animals are much, much smaller and weaker and shorter-lived than their prehistoric ancestors if they're supposed to be "evolving?" and improving all the time?
Obviously those animals were not as well adapted to the environment as animals are now. Remember most of the biomass is bacteria and insects.
>>69057668
>improving all the time
Actually it's not how evolution works at all. Natural selection favors those best fitted to their environment, not those who are strongest, fastest or most intelligent.
>>69057730
Well it all started when God was arm wrestling with his roommate, Chugs...
>>69052614
Logic itself is not based upon logic
>>69053627
>dating a leftist
Found your problem
>>69057803
If we don't bother to argue, though, then the foolish Christians of our flock will be led astray by atheists. We cannot allow that.
>>69057668
Gr8 b8 m8
>>69057613
i don't wanna fill up thread space but i don't really think your block universe idea is necessary, all of our physical laws only need to apply within the universe, since they're based on observation and we can only observe within the universe. if you view the universe as an incredibly complex 4 dimensional object it doesn't need to be eternal to be self contained
>>69057668
Oxygen concentration was higher allowing circulatory system to support larger bodies. Evolution is adaptation to the environment. The environment didn't support massive animals, those animals evolved.
>>69057730
>Ok, where did the Big Bang come from, if not for God? There must have been an outside force.
That's just speculation. It would be an argument from ignorance to assert what happened before one millionth of a second without empirical evidence.
>>69057867
Logic is based on math
>>69057752
>You do know that the Big Bang Theory makes no claims that something came from nothing right?
Yes and I have, hopefully, been making that point.
>>69057668
Evolution does not imply progress. It implies change to fit environment. Shorter lifespans means that the modern environment cannot properly support life like the prehistoric environments.
>>69057730
>>69057668
Its not the "quality" of the animals life, its if it can reproduce efficiently and stay alive as a species in its environment. Take love-bugs for example. Those fuckers show up for like a week here in florida and they live for like a few days but they survive because 1. They fuck their entire life so they reproduce a bunch of lil nigs. 2. They life in swarms and in massive populations so they survive shit easily. Yeah they are weak and dont live long but they are some hefty fuckers as a whole
>>69053219
>if something happens afterwards
Lots of things happen after you die. Life goes on, your body decomposes, loads of things happen. Your consciousness doesn't go on though, that wouldn't make sense. >>69053258
>>69057668
large size =/= optimally adapted
>>69057816
>tfw the Catholic Church endorses the theory of evolution and has for some time
>>69057884
fair enough. if one is so inclined it's not difficult, it just requires a lot of reading to arm yourself. Like I said, reading and watching videos a la Ravi Zacharias on youtube. But it's an option to leave it up to the inclined to argue. There are plenty out there.
>>69054649
>I need meaning given to me by others to find value in myself and the world.
LOL.
Enjoy being a slave to others for your entire life.
>>69057803
Problem with that quote and with any claim that intelligent designer was needed is that we can't assume anything about such creator. Even if he indeed exists there is no real reason to assume him to be Christian god. It could be any other creator-god worshiped through history. Or he never even showed himself to us. What if he shuns worship and build a special place full of fire and brimstone where he puts all religious people after they die? It's just as likely as YHWH existing.
>>69057867
>Logic itself is not based upon logic
No it's based on observed reality. Nothing is observed to be both itself and not itself = the principle of noncontradiction, etc. Logic is just generalised observations of how reality works.
>>69052808
I can certainly see why someone does not want to go and sit into a cold stone building on hard wooden benches getting shilled of all your hard earned cash.
>>69056672
I don't think you should be talking about "being a man" when your government and country is actively cuckolding you.
How's London? Is the entire city a no-go zone, or is it still the "ghettos"?
I suppose when your entire government hates you falling back on comfortable delusion is something that can't be helped.
>>69058041
other way round burger
>>69057730
Which God? How many? What are they like? How do you know what they/he/she/it is like? What if they come from an infinite series of gods they have? What if the universe has been expanding and contracting infinitely many times? What if we are part of an infinity with 10 dimensions and every possible type of universe has happened and will happen infinitely many times more?
You can make up any explination you'd like but the fact is we don't know. You can claim that it is God, your one very specific God you believe it is, or it could be one of infinitely many explanations we just don't know about or have ever thought about.
>>69054571
exactly
>>69057066
So he is calling Moses a liar.
>>69057989
I have evidence. I have a historical record which says that God came down and told people what happened. You're dismissing it out of hand with no proof of it being incorrect. Most of the parts of the Bible which are verifiable have been proven true. There was a man named Jesus, the Assyrians did siege Jerusalem at one point and were narrowly defeated, there is evidence that Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt.
Historians and other professors of knowledge accept these parts as true, but categorically reject anything else because it disagrees with their atheist/agnostic beliefs.
>>69052147
>>69052448
Don't be unequally yoked with her. A Christian shouldn't date or marry a reprobate atheist. I'm not even talking from scripture, this is just plainly obvious common sense.
>>69058048
wrong reply meant that for
>>69057297
>>69058209
true, it's messy in the modern world. You have to understand that back when we were more traditional and passed things down without hesitation, you could probably count the generations back to when Christ was observed in the flesh. And the church has kept and created copious amounts of documentation since Paul was instructed to.
>>69057976
>i don't wanna fill up thread space but i don't really think your block universe idea is necessary
I don't think it's necessary but it does conform to physics as we understand it and it explains certain problems relating to time. Also I just like it for philosophical reasons.
It would be great to talk to you about this all night but.....well, you know. Another time hopefully.
>>69058275
My God.
1 God.
Read the Bible.
Read the Bible.
He did not.
Big Bounce/Big Crunch was disproven by Hawking. Big Freeze is the accepted scenario now.
We're not.
Modern women hate Christianity because it's a patriarchal religion. If you notice you'll see tons of women involved in stupid hippy religions where people worship Goddesses and drone on about "mother nature". Even atheism is just a modern commie belief system that makes women out to be more than they are.
>God is masculine
>Women should know their place
>Men are heads of the household and women serve them
In short, learn to control yo bitch OP
>>69057988
true for insects and dinosaurs but not true for mammals in more recent geological time, they were huge because the relative lack of predators allowed them to be
convert to islam and make that bitch wear a hijab or behead her. ALLAH SAVE THE QUEEN
>>69057566
And you believe in a person who claimed that he was the only one to hear the new testament. After it was promised in the old one that it would never happen.
To be fair, it's not just Christianity. It's all these batshit religions who blindly follow some dude who was high on acid. I'm going to compare that to Judaism, which is the only religion that makes a claim that 3 million people saw the Bible being given. You think it's possible to convince people that this stuff happened, and not only that, but they or their ancestors where there, when they never heard anything about miracles or a tradition from their parents? It's an impossible claim if it would be fake.
>>69058174
>tfw the Catholic Church endorses the theory of evolution and has for some time
There is no other choice. Catholic hierarchy are way too fucking educated to do otherwise. And since the stars are of great importance to them they know enough about universe to see that it can't be 6000 or so years old.
>>69058099
But who says that it doesn't make any sense? Perhaps there is a world beyond this physical one defined by science? Perhaps science can't explain everything?
