Does torture work?
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Does torture work?
>>69043020
1. Water boarding isn't torture
2. Water boarding works
3. Torture works
A real President would use water boarding and worse, other enhanced interrogation techniques etc.
>>69043020
go watch Unthinkable with Samuel L. Jacson
>>69043020
Damn I guess I torture myself every time I take a bath or go swimming and dunk my head under the water.
>>69043020
Not really, it might help get a little information out quickly but it tends to be inaccurate. The best course of action to take is to build rapport between the prisoner and interrogator, in a similar fashion to how law enforcement agencies get confessions and evidence.
No it doesn't. It's way too unreliable to work in general, it has worked in special cases only.
Yes torture works.
In some cases skilful torture is the only thing that works.
Forget the "Psychological torture" bullshit, that's the wank that doesn't work.
If someone was torturing me i'd tell them i'm an 8 year old girl named Suzy and that i have nuclear bombs hidden anywhere.
>>69043436
Here is sauce material by the way.
>>69043561
And then they check your leads, find nothing, and you're back to square 1.
It isn't a film, you don't lie and get released.
>>69043020
There has been many studies on torture. It doesn't work the way you want it to. People will confess to anything to make you stop torturing them. So they end up confessing to shit they didn't do.
>>69043213
Let me water board you then.
>>69043436
>Hey how about those kaffirs today eh? Absolutley haram or what? Haha. So Ahmad where did you put the bomb?
Yeah, no.
They are commited jihadists, you need to break them and shatter their psychological defences and sense of ego, and then pick the pieces you need out of their broken minds.
Yes it does.
>>69043639
How DoD I forget link???http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/09/world/cia-torture-report-document.html
>>69043020
ofc it works if you ask the good questions
This is real life. It works and it works quickly. No one can endure torture.
>>69043020
Yes. Its does.
I can guarantee you it does.
>>69043020
>implying the torture victim won't spout some stupid bullshit to make it stop
even if they did tell the truth, they'll get killed anyway because the information was the valuable element to the torture victim
torture causes too much desperation for the information to be valid
Does torture work in the way that bleeding heart liberals expect it to work: no.
Does torture work in the way that experienced torturers expect it to work: yes.
>>69043658
Yeah, but when you need to use torture its usually time which matters and you cant have many false leads. If you put things in your prisoners mouth via torture then you're basically fucked at that point, as he's gonna say whatever you wanna hear.
>>69043329
You sweim with a plastic bag on your face held by someone else?
Is this a man?
In the shower too?
Youre gayer than op, sir.
>>69043755
Don't forget to ask him about the masked man.
Also if you want to get info just get a pin with pigs blood and threaten to stick it in them. They will sing like a bird.
>>69043561
>If someone was torturing me i'd tell them i'm an 8 year old girl named Suzy and that i have nuclear bombs hidden anywhere.
That is not really the point. The interrogator will take the information gained from you and cross check it against information from other sources. Slowly a picture builds. That is how its done. Information never, never comes from a single source.
>>69043020
Would you rather be water boarded or have your fingernails torn out?
>>69043020
>>69043536
>>69043825
>>69043832
>>69043827
Torturing makes people react irrationally and admit things that aren't true. Having spies & a better intelligence program is more effective.
TORTURE DOES NOT work, and if you don't believe me ask anyone who has ACTUALLY worked in intelligence.
The Japanese once tortured an American man to get nukes and he falsely told the Japanese that America had 100 nukes. Surprisingly, that is what may have actually made Japan surrender.
Torture doesn't work.
>>69043693
(((Studies)))
How? What studies? What controlled experiment has been done that tortures people and shows it doesn't work?
In every war, and every judicial system pre-20thC, torture has been used effectively. Of course it works. What secret would you not give away under torture? Seruously name one thing you would rather endure days and weaks of pain for, rather than just tell your handler?
Real world example. Think of all the people who refuse to give up password to encrypted hard drives. How much torture would fat nerd boy be able to handle, before he gave it up? One hour maybe? Could you imagine any of them passing week one? Of course torture works, only cucks who want the West to fight with one hand tied behind its back oppose us using it.
>>69044066
I get to choose?
I would just never make up my mind. Ha. Im the best innocent terrorist ever.
Have a nice day /thread
0/10
War crimes avoided
>>69043758
This. And when you are done with them, you dump them into a country foreign to them, usually in a high risk area, and they are disposed of by the locals.
>>69043326
Underrated post
>>69043020
depends if they are pussies or not.
>>69044066
Waterboarding won't kill you.
Latter might hurt so drowning all the way.
>>69044154
Not to mention finding people who actually carry out torture is hard as fuck, as a normal sane person couldnt do it, and might have mental problems afterwards, this is a known thing. There is a reason they dont use it anymore, and its not because its against the geneva convention or some shit. They switched to psychological torture because its much easier to carry out and people dont have such a problem with it if its not doing irreversible damage.
>>69044154
>The Japanese once tortured an American man to get nukes and he falsely told the Japanese that America had 100 nukes. Surprisingly, that is what may have actually made Japan surrender.
Link?
>>69043755
Interestingly waterboarding is the one form of """"torture"""" that hundreds of leftist activists and journalists are willing to undergo, just search on YouTube for countless examples.
Nothing says """"torture"""" like a long line of volunteers.
>>69043020
>Does torture work?
No
>Do enhanced interrogation techniques work?
Yes
>>69043020
Of course torture works. Look at how many witches were found in the 1690's, thanks to torture.
>>69043755
People have literally volunteered to get waterboarded to find out what it was like.
Christopher Hitchens notably among them.
I know it's unpleasant, and terrifying, and I wouldn't volunteer myself to do it, but it's not torture in the sense of sadistic pain-infliction for sadists. It's for interrogation.
>>69043020
stick doesn't work as well without the carrot. The important thing is that you're known for keeping your word.
>>69044479
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Torture_of_prisoners_of_war
>>69044509
When they are actually interrogating someone they water board them for a lot longer, and they do it repeatedly
>>69044154
Yes. Torture never works. That's why it's been used since before Christ to extract information. That's why governments have entire organizations dedicated to its practice to this day. "It doesn't work". Grow the fuck up, kid. It works.
>>69044231
It gets people to confess, but they confess to crimes they didn't commit.
https://www.cgu.edu/pdffiles/sbos/costanzo_effects_of_interrogation.pdf
https://law.utexas.edu/humanrights/events/speaker-series-papers/Hajjar_Does%20Torture%20Work.pdf
>>69043020
Torture never works, however, threat of torture does. But for the threat of torture to work, someone has to get tortured or the threat is not taken serious.
I work with this but I am sure my reply is not meme enough.
Nah not really
That media line about getting OBL because of torture is bs if you read the report
>>69044291
Kill yourself. Ha.
>>69043020
>be tortured non stop repeatedly until broken
>agree to whatever I'm told and say what they want to hear so less pain
Also good water boarding would have the subject head leaned back so water would be left stuck in the nasal
refer to image
>>69044713
t. edgy 20 year old with no real experience
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effectiveness_of_torture_for_interrogation
> people with actual experience with interrogating terror suspects and actual experience and knowledge about the effectiveness of torture techniques have come out to explain that they are ineffective
>torture doesn't work
>letting them waste away in comfy prison cells works
We might as well torture them and get something useful occasionally than do nothing and get nothing
Besides they are fucking terrorists. They should be tortured just because
With the technology we have these days, I don't really see why it wouldn't work. We have eye and face tracking with eulerian magnification, eegs, galvanic skin response, fMRI's that can see what region of the brain lights-up when someone recognizes an image.
And drugs, don't forget drugs. We could just get someone hooked on crack and get them into withdrawal until they give us what we want.
>>69043213
How is waterboarding not torture?
No, it doesn't work.
People will admit things even if they are true or not.
If you were being tortured, you're going to tell them any old bullshit to make them stop.
>>69044967
>Wikipedia
Get fucked
>>69044713
Voodoo and witch doctors have also been used since before Christ to heal the sick.
Not really, I would tell you anything you wanted to hear if you tortured me enough.
>>69043020
Short answer - the methods which are most appropriate change from situation from situation.
Is torture 100% reliable? No, but it's generally the best option for handling a prisoner with vital, time-sensitive intel like the details of an upcoming attack or the current whereabouts of a high priority target
Is building a rapport with prisoners 100% reliable? No, but it's generally the best option for handling prisoners with broader, less time-sensitive intel who could potentially become assets.
The idea that we should completely tie our hands and rule out one or the other is absurd.
>>69043020
psychological, physical stress works great assuming you get the correct subject with the information you want. but if you are going to do torture you need to literally render all subjects mentally & physically 'broken' so they are unfit to later start/resume hostile activities.
>>69044713
>>69044967
>>69045084
I don't know if you realized this but, despite what your 8th grade English teacher says, Wikipedia has sources.
Also,
>Truth is, it's surprisingly hard to get anything under torture, true or false. For example, between 1500 and 1750, French prosecutors tried to torture confessions out of 785 individuals. Torture was legal back then, and the records document such practices as the bone-crushing use of splints, pumping stomachs with water until they swelled and pouring boiling oil on the feet. But the number of prisoners who said anything was low, from 3 percent in Paris to 14 percent in Toulouse (an exceptional high). Most of the time, the torturers were unable to get any statement whatsoever.
>>69043020
fun fact
waterboarding doesn't work on people who swim a lot in their lives.
nasal and breathing control niggers.
>>69045086
You might want to look into how much medicinal knowledge came from these types of folk healers, dipshit.
>>69045084
There's 12 references at the bottom of the page.
>>69043436
I thought Trudeau came back? no?
maybe if you let muslim fuck your daughter he would trust you afterwards
>>69044967
>some guys who've done it say it doesn't work
>other guys who've done it say it does
>guess we better assume the former are right
>>69044716
Is this true in every case?
Would people **never** confess to a crime they DID commit under torture?
To me this seems absolutely absurd, a dogmatic position against torture that attempts to use a bogus "evidence-based" position to argue against torture instead of using a moral argument.
Obviously torturing someone who doesn't have any answers isn't going to yield you useful information.
>>69043020
The French wrote extensively during the Algerian war how they tortured the fuck out of everybody they could, but it only led to false intelligence.
The British police also routinely tortured IRA suspects back in the day and it resulted in nothing as the IRA figured out that the more you talk, the more you invite torture. If there's a little information coming out then there must be more to get right? So keep torturing. Instead they refused to sign any confessions and were let go after a few days of beatings.
Torture is degeneracy and the people who commit it likely enjoy it, it's not good for finding any good intel. Trump doesn't want to coddle terrorist suspects, there are other methods of making somebody talk besides beating them and you don't have to stoop to ISIS tier degeneracy to get them to spill.
Also remember as much as Obama and Shillary call out Trump for advocating torture remember they are running prison ships off the coast of Somalia and still utilizing CIA black sites worldwide just they don't admit to this.
>>69043020
I don't know.
Let me torture you until you admit it does.
>>69043020
Nope, it hinders the intelligence gathering process since it almost always produces false info.
Waterboarding is barely torture.
Torture are things like mock executions, rape, vivisection, the rack, etc.
>>69043755
That's not an argument. I wouldn't want to get tased or showered with pepper spray, but that doesn't mean they are torture methods.
>>69043020
Torture as punishment, yes.
Torture for information, no.
>>69043693
>sjw "studies"
>hey guys! we think torture is inhumane! oh btw they don't work!
no I don't trust it
if someone burns my balls I'd give up any info they ask
>>69043561
I know you're probably a dumb piece of shit that gets most of his news from the msm but actual professionals check more than one source.
>>69045207
Don't be pedantic, you know what I'm saying. It's a stupid example to assume that because something has been used for a long time, it's effective.
I could just change the example to sacrificing to the sun god or some other bullshit.
>>69044593
Kek
>>69045427
You're misunderstanding me. People who are innocent, will say whatever the fuck you want to hear to make you stop torturing them.
>>69045427
And if you don't have info, what will you do?
You'll tell them any old bullshit.
I don't understand you people, why do you desperately want interrogation to work so bad?
>>69045176
Well, shit. That's me proved wrong. I wonder why torture and the threat of torture is still used for intelligence gathering purposes to this day. I mean, if it doesn't work and all.
>8th grade
Fuck off with your gay memes
>>69045366
>rape
What if someone enjoys it?
What libtards think:
>we pick up random civilians and blast their face with a firehose to rupture their lungs
What actually happens:
>we put a rag over brutal warlords' faces then dump water over the rag to trigger the body's reactions to suddenly being underwater
---
What libtards think:
>we ask the fool on the table where the bomb is hidden, then that's exactly where we look for the bomb
What actually happens:
>we ask the fool on the table to agree or disagree with other statements on where the bomb is hidden, then these reactions are assessed by a team of investigators
---
What libtards think:
>refugees are small children who will die if their intercontinental stampede is subjected to scrutiny
What actually happens:
>dysfunctional states are scooping up their own degenerate rapist filth and flinging it towards Europe, where the local bureaucrats happily welcome the mudslide because it makes human life cheaper domestically
---
What libtards think:
>$15 minimum wage will end poverty forever
What actually happens:
>Commie politicians promise a house and two cars in exchange for pushing buttons on a fucking cash register, then when they take office this entire platform disappears and suddenly you yourself are under the gun for having too much 'privilege' even if you're making the $7.50/hr they spent their whole life demonizing.
>>69044154
how do you think nazis destoyed resistants groups ? by politely asking them ? with a beer ?
retard
>>69045276
People who did the crimes will confess. But also people who are innocent will confess as well.
>>69045276
Because back in the day there werent pretty much any civil trial they just lock you up instant. If you were accused of horrific crime they would torture on the spot, even if you didnt do it you have no choice but to admit to stop the torture, not everyone has a high threshold of pain or pain endurance or even strong willed.
>>69045445
Except, noone does that anymore. Why? Because IT DOESNT FUCKING WORK.
>>69044154
t. a flaming sjw underage
btw I made your last part up during discussing with your classmates, right? So you can be cool
>>69043329
Here's your guaranteed reply
>>69044727
>best answer and correct answer
>not meme enough
Yep. Sometimes I wonder why I bother waking up at all.
Torture does work. The subject must give you new information that you never hinted at, otherwise you would be leading. You need corroboration for that new information from outside sources as well. There is about 2% of the adult male population who can withstand torture to the point of death. Torture is very useful but checks and balances you need.
>>69045673
>Liburals are stoopid amirite?
That's a whole lot of typing to avoid answering the question.
>>69044711
>>69044509
Are there no right-y activists who are willing to get waterboarded just to profess how acceptable it is?
I told a friend of mine I might go get waterboarded and just say that its okay and we should do it to muslims. He said that was 'evil'.
How is it any more evil to get waterboarded to support leftist arguments than it is to support right-y arguments? The 'evil' comment caught me by surprise. Its like, how can you call right-ies malicious, when they are willing to undergo the same agony they want to inflict? Makes no sense. Its the epitome of sacrifice.
>>69043326
>movie
>documentary to a burger
I don't agree for it to be used to get someone to confess a crime or something. I agree with its use if they're already guilty of something terrible and more information is needed from them.
>>69045779
Of course they do. There's a load of fucked up people in the world.
People talk through torture but not necessarily the right information, they just wanna give you what you hear for you to stop.
You'd get result but high unreliable.
>>69044342
if you let me torture you I guarantee you'd kneeing down and slap your face call yourself a pussy
you underages think you are hardcore because you believe you can endure torture for hours is cringy as fuck
oh btw real world torture makes the ones seen on movies 100 times better. You're underage so you wouldn't understand
It mostly doesn't work.
People will tell you all sorts of things to make the torture stop, even things that are blatantly not true.
>>69043020
No, they usually survive
>>69043020
Depends, it doesn't work for confessions but it can work for information
>>69045923
I answered the question, click on poster ID since you seem to have missed it.
>>69043213
>Water boarding isn't torture
Okay Bush
>>69044716
>Oh that password didn't work Ahmed, lets stick it up your ass again and see if you can try a little better this time.
Torture elicits information that can be used. In many cases it can elicit information that can be verifed or falsified very quickly.
The password to an encrypted hard drive. The location of a safe house. The identity of an unknown person etc. All things torture and enhanced interrogation would give, that would otherwise not be known.
One of the Paris attackers is sitting in his jail cell saying nothing RIGHT NOW because he isn't being forced to. Break him, see what pieces of information come out of his shattered mind, and put them to use. There will be something useful there, more useful that a quiet mouth occupying a prison cell eating Belgian waffles on the taxpayers.
>>69043020
When does one stop know where the information flow ends? You're obviously not going to take his word for it, so they have reasons to either tell more than they know, or to tell nothing at all since it won't stop the procedure.
>>69043020
>Does torture work?
It depends what you want to do:
If you want to make someone suffer and feel powerful doing so, then torture works.
If you want to extract information by making people suffer, then torture doesn't work.
Why? People will say ANYTHING to make the torture stop. You ask them any question, and they will give you the answer you want to hear; it doesn't matter if it's correct or wrong.
I can torture you and make you confess to being my grandmother.
>>69043213
Fucking hell, why are people in the West such pussies?
>m-m-muh enhanced interrogation techniques
So we're just going to keep whitewashing and sugarcoating the truth, yeah? It's fucking torture.
And you know what? We should torture. You show your enemies NO mercy. You think a terrorist thought about showing mercy to their victims?
Not a popular view and I would never say it if I ran for office, but we should torture terrorists.
>>69046135
So, did you read the links?
>>69043213
>A real President would use water boarding and worse, other enhanced interrogation techniques etc.
But for what purpose
>3. Torture works
how does it "work"? what does it do according to you?
>>69044154
>Surprisingly, that is what may have actually made Japan surrender.
Interesting
>>69046144
>>69044727
>>69045910
It stops when the torture begins.
>>69043020
The image shows incorrect waterboarding form. That angle would actually kill the person. The idea is that the interogee is in a slight decline so that the water sits at the back of the nasal cavity rather than going down the throat, this means they can breath but the water covered cloth and the water in the nasal cavity makes the brain think it is drowning, this causes massive stress to the person.
>>69043020
No. You'll say anything if in you're in enough pain, you just want it to stop. You get a lot of false admissions, and shitty leads that don't pan out, and it's hard to separate that from the solid stuff.
>>69045695
>>69045739
Your answers are appreciated.
And I want to stay on the point that claiming, outright, that torture "never works" is absurd. Using absurd arguments to argue against torture does no service to the anti-torture position.
>>69046144
Why stop? Torture and rape until it's dead. Isn't that what your favorite war tactic? No witnesses=maximum information, and they won't tell others who are about to be tortured that they won't survive.
>>69043020
Trump should approve water boarding but use pigs blood instead of water.
>>69046032
>TORTURE IS WRONG
>BECAUSE I THREATEN TO TORTURE YOU
Go play with your toys, the ones being tortured are being tortured for the sake of dismantling global crime syndicates targeting little kids. Hippies talk the big talk when they see photos of children on TV, but they'll never lift a finger against Boko Haram or IS. All these faggots know how to do is point fingers and whine about minimum wage not buying them enough Apple products.
>>69046369
Torturing someone doesnt always mean you want information in them tho.
>>69045922
This is not how interrogations work.
The higher ups in every regime demand results.
You are arrested, beaten senseless, then presented with a pre filled in confession and demands that you sign it. You don't sign you get tortured some more. You sign the confession. You are then presented to the media as the evil mastermind and executed after a show trial.
It doesn't matter if you actually did it or not, the only thing that matters is the appearance of justice and progress is being made against whatever it is you were arrested for in the first place.
>>69045044
>get tortured
>say wrong info
>checked
>yeah man! how you doing! your info is wrong and we tortured you so........ you can leave free!
are you really this stupid?
>>69045444
The point is if i'm being tortured ill tell them whatever they want to hear even if its obvious its not by true or if i don't have an answer. You think most hijabis are going to know dick all about whats going on especially if the plans change?
>>69043020
Depends what you mean by "work". You can break the vast majority of people, and reprogram them, but you can't trust the information you get. People will literally say anything to make the torture stop.
This is good if you want to coerce a confession, but bad for gathering intelligence.
>>69045022
Read the US legal definition:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2340
Because the harm is mental and only temporary, it doesn't satisfy all the elements under US law. It has to be prolonged or the result of physical torture.
It's a semantic/legal thing. It's certainly a "cruel, inhumane and unsual" technique or whatever you want to call techniques that inflict harm but are not quite torture.
>>69046238
the point his torture isn't use to get confessions but informations
-where is the bomb ?
-A
if he lies he get tortured again
>>69044450
The classic Milgram experiment says otherwise.
>>69046510
Okay? So? I'm not arguing that sadism or torture as inflicting punishment is in any way justifiable.
>>69045695
There are no innocent muslims, or innocent members of IS cells.
>>69046546
Also, you have some bizzare idea of how long it takes to find out if information is real or not
>interrogate Ahmed for other terrorists involved
>he says it's George
>now George is closely monitored for several months
What the fuck do you actually think happens? How do you think people find if information is false or not?
>>69044154
>Having spies & a better intelligence program is more effective.
Think of how badly they torture our spies when they manage to catch them.
I'd say its fair game we let some of their guys splash around in a bathtub.
>>69043020
>using a bucket
Isn't that incredibly ineffective?
Why not a hose?
>>69046546
Except that if you're in a scenario where your target doesn't know shit, he will keep telling you whatever just to make you stop
Torture for the sake of Intel is objectively ineffective. Not saying it never works, but it's far too time consuming for little to no info gained
>>69043020
It works but it also lets you make anyone you want say anything you want.
Really torture needs to be done with doctors and psychologists present. Body language reading, heart rate and blood pressure, all vitals.
I prefer FSB Russian Tooth filing myself.
You can always hook someone up with a set of false teeth if they turned out to be legit.
Water boarding can lead to death. instant or later I think. (later because of heart problems.)
>>69046126
Yoo was right
Bush did nothing wrong
>>69043020
torture works as sure as slavery did
>this thread
>torture won't work, they just lie!
>after being tortured, Achmed tells the US where to find plans for their next strike
>lol thanks you are free to go, of course we believe you without verification!
Do you actually think they lie and just get set free?
>>69046691
Yeah that's what it's not good at, Pierre.
>>69046860
>I'd say its fair game we let some of their guys splash around in a bathtub.
I'm glad we don't decide our military policy based on what appeals to your fee-fees, desu
>>69046675
>https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2340
Just want to point out that the US Federal Code isnt quite the same as 'the law'. There are plenty of illegal statutes that get struct down. For example, its still in the US code that you cant burn the US flag, but thats void according to US courts.
I dont mean to contradict you. That might perfectly encapsulate what the law is regarding torture, Im just saying its not enough to.
As far as I know, law typically refers to some of the following:
0 What the executive branch is willing to enforce
1 What congress has made into statute
2 How a judge has interpreted a statute
3 Just whatever rules a judge made up
4 Whatever rules a regulatory agency has made up.
Just because its in the US Code doesnt mean its law, and just because its law doesnt mean its in the US Code.
>>69044154
ever considered toning down the use of alcohol and other drugs son?
ITT edgy ignorant manchildren
>but but in the movie it works ! that means its true !
>>69046968
but slavery built the only superpower in the entire world
That feel when had to stand in stress positions with a wet flannel on my face for hours on end.
It is torture.
>>69047040
No, they get presented with a list of inaccurate information that will take months to years to find out if it is actually true or not.
>>69045044
Not that simple.
Sleep/good deprivation and various forms of distress are great for fucking with short term memory.
And that's a good thing for intel specialists. Because the first thing most prisoners forget is the COVER STORY. Now, if you have more than 1 prisoner, your chances of finding solid info are very high because you can check consistency...most of the people we capture get offed within a few weeks anyway, so your priorities are a little skewed if you're worrying about torture.
>>69046144
>japan
>against torture
yeah those chinese and koreans trust you
>>69047088
why "but"? I wasn´t being sarcastic. Slavery works, torture too.
Yes. You might not get useful info from the poor sap but it's so satisfying to hear them squirm.
>>69047044
I took a cold shower today, it was torture, like what the Nazis did to the Jews in the camps!
>>69047074
24 is a documentary.
>>69046873
>Why not a hose?
How do you fill a hose with pee?
>>69046304
Yes I agree, but IRL there are legal definitions and consequences, and water boarding is not torture under US law.
Torture is wrong.
I don't care if it works or not.
>>69047308
Give an elephant something to drink.
Why not just hold them in a tub of water to ACTUALLY drown them, instead of fake drowning them?
>>69043020
Who cares?
It's satisfying.
>>69047295
I'm sorry if I triggered you anon, I'll try not to microagress you anymore :3
>>69046754
So it depends how it "works"
OP didnt clear if its about extracting information or just inflicting psychological or physical trauma to a person.
>>69044231
>In every war, and every judicial system pre-20thC, torture has been used effectively.
Torture was a political tool. You capture your enemies and torture them to confess to crimes of your choosing.
You publicly execute them and you get to look righteous and justified while "exposing" a plot that makes you look sympathetic.
So yes, torture works, but there's no way it works for "extracting information".
>>69045645
>I wonder why torture and the threat of torture is still used for intelligence gathering purposes to this day
Appeal to tradition fallacy
>>69045961
>Are there no right-y activists who are willing to get waterboarded just to profess how acceptable it is?
This wouldn't even be a remotely similar scenario because the context is completely different. Waterboarding isn't even the beginning of the end of the interrogation techniques used to put people under duress, it's just what women and pussies get sad about.
>>69043020
sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
if you capture 10 guys and torture them, and 3 start telling you the same stories, you have leads you can follow up on.
the problem isn't that people will somehow never give up information, or be able to hold out and lie indefinitely. they won't, everyone breaks.
it's the same problem you have with the death penalty. it's not that killing murderers is wrong.
it's that sometimes you get people who actually didn't do anything, or actually don't know anything; and then there's no real way to tell if he's lying until you've tortured him into an insane asylum.
Torture is like a last resort measure of desperation by secret services...
If torture is being used = secret service is out of leads
>>69047380
Killing is badong.
>>69044154
About 5000 years of human development says otherwise you fucking retard
>>69047454
>sensiblechucklemagazine.gif
>>69047060
I'm alluding to John Yoo and the other legal opinions given in the Bush administration. Obviously they state the reasons why water boarding is not torture under US law better than any of us can in this format here.
>>69045276
>To me this seems absolutely absurd, a dogmatic position against torture that attempts to use a bogus "evidence-based" position to argue against torture instead of using a moral argument.
So if someone accuses you of a crime, it's okay to torture you even if you're actually innocent (and only you know that)?
>>69047380
>liberals constantly disavow innate morality
>think torture is wrong, period
>cutting my kids dick off is ok
>>69043755
Just don't take off my mask.
>>69045176
>Confessions in the 1500s under torture aren't reliable
>Therefore all torture gathers unreliable information always
You're an idiot
>>69043020
It works, but you don't know when it's worked.
>>69047757
Would that hurt?
>>69047477
No chance of accidentally killing them. The effect can be reproduced quicker and more control in how much torture they're receiving.
>>69047687
How?
>>69047734
No, and nowhere did I imply that.
My position is against using "torture never works" as an argument against torture because it is nonsense.
That doesn't mean I think torture is justifiable.
>>69046526
>this is how socialism ends up
Incompetent governments beat people for appearances. Competent governments beat people for results. You can't use soft methods against theocratic militants; soft punishment by 1st world standards is paradise compared daily life in IS-held territory.
>>69044594
Don't be fucking retarded.
One thing is the act within itself, another the purpose with which it is committed.
Fucking idiotic leaves.
>>69044893
What purpose does the cloth serve?
>>69046369
>And I want to stay on the point that claiming, outright, that torture "never works" is absurd.
It's right to say it "never works" because it's extremely unreliable. Especially for shit like terrorism because you don't know who is a bomb-maker and who is a kebab delivery boy.
"YOU'RE LYING! TELL ME THE TRUTH!"
That command gets said over and over until you start hearing what you want to hear. In the meantime, because you're torturing someone, you aren't sure if they are involved or not. You need information. You likely are torturing someone innocent.
>>69048097
Build wall spic.
>>69046945
>hurr gubmint captures randkm people and immediately begins torturing them
No. 99% of the time, if you're being tortured, they know your identity, you're in a position that guarantees you have the info they want.
>>69047749
>hurr durr liberals
>hurr durr circumcision
Neither of those things have anything to do with what I posted.
>>69047237
Be glad Japan now has the moral compass not to torture.
>and they used to do it for punishment and fun anyway not "information".
>>69047713
>implying John Yoo's legal opinion on torture is worth anything
That clown should be disbarred
>>69048178
This isn't even close to true.
>>69047380
How else would you extract information from deluded terrorists or would you just give them a free ride home so they can bomb you again? Would you say the torture of one immoral terrorist is still wrong even if it saves a large group of your native people?
>>69047549
>It works for X
>Therefore it doesn't work for Y
What the fuck are you smoking?
>>69048128
I don't disagree with the arguments against torture as a form of interrogation (why not just use drugs, lie detectors, etc for that purpose?), but what about as a form of deterrence?
The true last word on waterboarding threads:
>mfw social justice crybullies think their bullshit code of morals is going to dictate military strategy for any country in the world
>inb4 CNN/MSNBC/huffpoo opinion article cited as evidence
>>69048120
I imagine the wet cloth makes breathing more difficult. Without it you would just splutter the water away.
>>69043755
Fox News reporter didn't die:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2jKe5zAS9E
I've been waterboarded twice and both times it was very unpleasurable. Getting waterboarded for hours..fuck this shit
>>69046304
Okay you fucks, time for a lesson in nuance.
Let's get the easy part out of the way, torture doesn't work.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/senate-committee-cia-torture-does-not-work
Now onto more of a philosophical argument.
Would I want to torture a man who I was 100% sure, without a doubt, behind attacks like 9/11? Sure, I'll do it personally, give me some pliers.
The fact is, this is the government we're talking about. They're rarely 100% sure of jack shit. Some of these alleged terrorists are simply goat fuckers picked up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or because another goat fucker had it out for them and spread a rumor.
It's dangerous to let a government set a precedent for policies like torture or the death penalty when the consequences for them fucking it up are so severe. One day, far right "extremists" could find themselves caught under our waterboarding program. Moderates that hear of our torture are more likely to become radicalized as well, so we're shooting ourselves in the foot ideologically.
Again, it doesn't even work:
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/226866-experienced-interrogator-torture-doesnt-work
On a more personal note, /pol/
Trump's greater platform would be infinitely easier for me to defend if it wasn't for this mouth breathing torture bullshit.
>>69047973
>No, and nowhere did I imply that.
I'm implying that. I think you look suspicious. You look at questionable websites. What crimes have you committed?
After some "enhanced interrogation" I'm sure you'll come clean. Tell me how your family is involved in your crimes and I'll make the pain stop.
>>69048398
>It works for X
>Therefore it doesn't work for Y
that is completely valid.
>>69047787
notice all aussies in this thread are pro-torture?
interesting
>>69048120
Can't breathe through wet cloth. It seals the face.
>>69046691
>the point his torture isn't use to get confessions but informations
What is the difference? It's all just the lies of a delirious person trying to make the pain stop.
>>69048503
I already think torture is wrong! P-please stop mister, you're hurting me!
>>69048398
You don't have very good reading comprehension or logical skills do you?
>>69043020
For Shits n Giggles they should use Pig Blood.
>>69048251
>believe what a jap says
yeah right. They are so honored that they'd never do something like that! oops...
>>69048492
Shut up pussy
>>69048835
Some convincing logic there, cleetus.
>>69048467
Ever had a piece of plastic (aka 'choking hazard') suddenly obstruct your feeling, and it feels like the most annoying thing in the universe? This is that, forced on somebody.
Liberals cry up a hurricane, while the people we use waterboarding on torture their own enemies with stabbing and lacerations and burning and blunt force trauma. And full blown real-life drowning, rather than the simulated feeling of drowning.
>>69043020
Torture is just causing pain. Almost everything you can do to someone to interrogate him is painful, ergo, yes, it's torture.
The question of whether torture works or not is broader, and largely unanswerable. Waterboarding by itself is just part of a much larger system of psychological breaking that certain agencies use to extract information.
That system does work. The evidence for that is that we've extracted information from people before using it that has paid off.
But interrogation, enhanced or no, is not the only or even the best way to acquire information. The real reason we're doing it is that it scares people. Seeing someone else be tortured, or seeing a person who has been tortured repeatedly, may make someone else more compliant.
So there are two parallel fantasies here, one is that torture never works and is useless, the other is that it always works and life is like 24. Neither is true, the reality is that torture is part of the larger system. It's a tool in the repertoire of an intelligence agency. The other reality is that it's going to happen whether you condone it or not. The CIA does not give a fuck about what you think, and neither does GRU.
Personally I suspect that the CIA talks about Waterboarding because it distracts people from the far, far more horrible stuff that they do. As we've seen, the American people really don't care that the government tortures terrorists. I'm actually surprised we don't hold public executions for them at this point.
>>69048993
feeling > breathing
spellcheck fail
>>69045695
innocence proves nothing
>>69047663
>badong
Chosen One!
>>69046968
cuckoldry wont work either
>>69043020
Of course it does. Have you ever been tortured? There is no such thing as resisting torture indefinitely. Eventually, to escape the pain, the subject will enter a bargaining phase and start disclosing information. Over a sufficient period of time, you can develop a high degree of confidence that the person is telling things that are true in the desperate hope that you can confirm it and stop causing them pain or fear. Usually, whatever they're telling you can actually be confirmed. If not, you keep them in custody until it can be confirmed, or you have reason to believe the information they're disclosing is no longer valuable.
>>69043946
>You sweim with a plastic bag on your face held by someone else?
Wait, you don't? what kind of uneducated filthy hillbilly are you?>
>>69048492
i want to instill fear into the hearts and minds of people who would wish me harm (arab terrorists)
if torturing innocent arabs achieves this then ill allow it, vote for it, ill do it myself
>>69048425
>(why not just use drugs, lie detectors, etc for that purpose?)
those are also ineffective and pseudo-science.
If you want information, stockholm syndrome is very useful. There was ways to mentally pressure people to admit things. Once you cross the line into torture you ruin their mental state and trust and the ability to manipulate is lost.
>>69047687
Wat? You're saying 5000 years of human development is from torture?
>>69046526
That's torture for confession, not torture for interrogation.
If I was tortured to confess to crimes I didn't do, I would confess. If I was tortured to tell my handlers the password for my computer, I would tell them the password to my computer. If i was tortured to tell my handlers the whereabouts of a collaborator, chances are I would tell them what I know of the whereabouts of he collaborator.
>>69048760
I'm just trying to show you what happens.
The problem with torture is mostly with the person doing the torturing. They are being single minded, righteous and won't stop to think about what they are doing and why.
They think they are "correct" and it doesn't matter the outcome. The person who thinks that way is a horrible investigator and will have shitty results.
>>69048492
> the guardian
Why even bother typing all that if that was going to be your source?
>mouth breathing
Ad homs denote shallow thinkers. Give me something better than the guardian to justify your swag.
>>69048044
Politics is politics no matter where.
It's a myth interrogators ask you anything else except to sign a confession that's already full of names of other people they want to pick up. You must freely plead guilty in open court for your "crimes" and name whoever they want you to name from a list. They already have the names, they don't give a shit about getting more from you.
Look up any ex Gitmo detainee what happened to them, everyday a confession presented and various threats against their family or themselves if they refused to sign and later plead guilty in a tribunal.
They never waterboarded anybody at Gitmo for intel, they did so to force them to plead guilty. Maher Arar, the kebab who was arrested because a Gitmo inmate fingered him, was already in the list of names they wanted signed. The act of the tortured Gitmo kebab signing it thus gave them legal authority to go after Arar.
>>69043020
Not if the subject is innocent.
>>69049487
This I can definitely see as true. I've been in the Marines and SERE training is used to see if we can handle harsh interrogation, but literally no training is done to simulate humane captors who might befriend us. It's very easy to withhold information from someone you see as your enemy, but I can see information being slipped for people who let their guard down.
>>69049685
>That's torture for confession, not torture for interrogation.
There is no difference you tortilla stuffer.
>>69048762
You point out that torture is effective in making people confess to crimes, even if they did not commit them. You make no argument that torture is not effective in gathering intelligence information. Nevertheless, you conclude that torture is ineffective in gathering intelligence information.
>>69049685
This.
Internet has the videos if you've got the balls to go find them: Slavs whipping drug mules to death to get any information they possibly could on people who were any rank higher than mule. They told the dude straight out they are beating him to death, and they told him to start naming impossible shit like the license plate numbers on other people's vehicles just because they wanted to see if he *might* know anything. Spics chopping live people up into burgers probably over some failure to meet a cash quota. East Asian gangs are the fucking worst; they'll ruthlessly dominate countries' biggest corporations and go after people's tiny children to make sure everyone shuts up. And once people shut up, it never happened.
But then everybody whines about the less-than-heavenly methods used to stop these people. This whining is why I became authoritarian-right.
>>69049896
>It's a myth interrogators ask you anything else
>only one thing exists
Stopped fucking reading, people with zero insight on war will never be put in charge of war. Go play with your toys.
>>69050028
>It's very easy to withhold information from someone you see as your enemy, but I can see information being slipped for people who let their guard down.
That's the way the CIA used to do it before Bush got his war-boner on.
You give them food, you talk to them. Terrorists usually live garbage, horrible lives where they are already brainwashed and feel expendable.
It's better to loosen them up from that state rather than torture a person who already feels that they are worthless.
Seriously, what's the point of torturing a would-be suicide bomber? They've already decided to die for their cause.
Undermining that cause or giving them a new one is more effective.
>>69050058
You are either underageb&, legitimately retarded or a bernie supporter. Probably all three.
I'm sure it's more intense than the Fox News video I just watched..
But couldn't you just hold your breath and struggle and pretend you can't breath until they stop and take another breath and do it all over again?
>>69050146
>You point out that torture is effective in making people confess to crimes, even if they did not commit them. You make no argument that torture is not effective in gathering intelligence information.
You don't think a person that will falsely confess to crimes won't also give false intelligence?
You really can't wrap your little tacoy mind around that?
>>69050353
>You give them food, you talk to them. Terrorists usually live garbage, horrible lives where they are already brainwashed and feel expendable.
This is called "good cop, bad cop."
On a military scale, 'bad cop' means you beat the shit out of them. 'Good cop' means you hand them a first-world standard of living and let them keep it if they help you stop the next mass-kidnapping or airline bombing. Obama demonized doing this, then he released people who maintained active hostility. PoWs are prisoners to keep them from waging war.
>>69044593
They're all but gone now, apart from the one running for POTUS.
>>69050439
>Hold breath
>Interrogator just punches you in the stomach
>Let out air
>Pour water for intended effect
Also its not torture, its enhanced interrogation. Apart from the mental abuse, waterboarding doesn't harm any part of the body.
Fuck pussy liberals for crying out that terrorists have rights or any right beyond that of a feral dog.
>>69050476
For the Nth time:
Interrogators don't look for the bomb where the terrorist says it is. Interrogators tell the terrorist where the bomb is then experienced detectives gauge the responses. The terrorist is not in charge of data, merely used as part of a checking process on existing data. Don't even bother responding, nobody gives a shit about your social justice fantasies.
>>69048266
Yoo was right
Yoo has not been disbarred, why would he? He was right:
No interrogator has been charged because they did nothing wrong - Fact
>>69050476
>Give false info
>They check it, find out its false
>Torture continues twice as harshly
>Give false info
>They check it, find out its false
>Torture continues even harsher this time
>Only way to stop the torture is to cooperate and give real information
On top of that, they don't let you know what they already know and what not. You talk all big and smug, but after weeks of the most excruciating pain you could ever experience, you really think you'd just keep giving them bullshit info and get tortured forever? Give me a break.
>>69050439
Okay, everyone needs to stop and watch this eFukt video now.
http://efukt.com/21295_The_Sexy_Side_of_Waterboarding.html
for educational purposes of course.
Keep in mind she's a willing participant here. lol.
>>69049799
>stopped reading at The Guardian
Holy fuck, they're a somewhat decent source and more importantly they quote an actual U.S. Senate Report on torture's effectiveness.
Ad homs are just for fun, nigger. Don't shut down your brain so easily.
>>69049481
Not a bad sentiment, but outdated in this era. Carpet bombing WW2 style would have done the trick, but we're in a different world now. Torture isn't helping enough to make up for it so it's just counterproductive.
>>69044509
They don't even do it right 99% of the time. Your body is suppose to be at an angle where the head is lower than the rest of the body, so that water flowing into the nostrils and mouth engage your body's natural reflex for drowning.
Most of them just lay flat and have water poured over their face.
>>69050858
>Interrogators tell the terrorist where the bomb is then experienced detectives gauge the responses.
lol, and torturing them does what then? Makes them freak out and have their heart rate soar? Tell me when you're supposed to "notice" when the truth comes out?
>>69046308
Did you read what he said?
You have to be a mega puss if you can't take a wet rag on your face
It obviously works or it wouldn't be a thing.
If it was just about torture, there are much cooler ways to torture someone.
If torture works why did the Nazis not torture officer POWs from UK/US?
>>69050730
It's not about that you moron, it's about if it even works. These people are fucking suicide bombers and come from absolute shit lives with nothing to lose. Why the fuck do you think simulating death would fucking get them to damage the cause they are willing to die for? It has been known for a long time torture is not a very effective means of getting accurate information out of prisoners.
Just cause you'd spill your beans when someone would punch your nose doesn't mean this guy who watched his village get destroyed would.
>>69051078
>random liberal whining
>>69049799
that gif is always so hot.
i really need to watch that show.
>Why are the victims so complient in the IS beheading videos?
>Torture doesn't work!!11!!1
Torture works for Hezbollah too:
>On March 16, 1984, Buckley was kidnapped by Hezbollah from his apartment building when he was leaving for work.
>Major General Carl Stiner stated that "Buckley's kidnapping had become a major CIA concern. Not long after his capture, his agents either vanished or were killed. It was clear that his captors had tortured him into revealing the network of agents he had established." According to the United States, Buckley had undergone 15 months of torture by Hezbollah before his death. In a video taken approximately seven months after the kidnapping, his appearance was described as follows:
>Buckley was close to a gibbering wretch. His words were often incoherent; he slobbered and drooled and, most unnerving of all, he would suddenly scream in terror, his eyes rolling helplessly and his body shaking. . . . The CIA consensus was that he would be blindfolded and chained at the ankles and wrists and kept in a cell little bigger than a coffin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Buckley
>>69050899
>Only way to stop the torture is to cooperate and give real information
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times and said a whole bunch of bullshit. He was obviously guilty as fuck too. It was all unnecessary- unless the goal was just to torture him. . .
yeah, really fucking hurts
>>69051259
If not-torturing people works then why did Nazi Germany get its shit kicked in by cruelty-enthusiast Stalin?
>>69051384
Source?
>>69050928
>Holy fuck, they're a somewhat decent source
straight to the trash
>Ad homs are just for fun, nigger
Winning or losing arguments is fun. Endless chirping like baby birds beging for regurgitated bits is masturbation.
>shut down your brain
Nothing is more labotomizing than the perpetual drone of edgy buzzwords. It's gonna be sad if I finally stop coming here because it's boring, of all reasons.
>>69043020
who cares how effective it is
waterboard muslims
>>69050906
Why is this bitch only trying to breathe when the shirt is on her face and then exhaling and whimpering when it's not?
Seems that she trusts that the guy is not going to really try to do damage and this doesn't really represent how you would react if you were captured in a foreign country with a bunch of scary dudes standing around you
>>69050899
>you really think you'd just keep giving them bullshit info and get tortured forever?
You're not understanding. They don't give "bullshit information" to protect their information. They say anything and everything, usually bullshit to make the torture stop.
You're not thinking. They say anything to make the pain stop. It's torture.
If you continue to torture them, they will keep "giving you information" real or not because that is the ONLY choice you are giving them.
Again, I can torture you again and again until you confess to being my grandmother and elaborate on each time you made me cookies.
Now switch the grandmother scenario with other shitty intelligence and you're trying to pry information out of a person that may or may not know. If you keep prying, you might get the right information but all mixed up with the desperate bullshit.
Why would a torturer stop with one simple set of information? They would think the person was always lying.
Yes, but people in first world nations aren't supposed to be animals.
>>69051292
>you lost the argument
>>69051384
> waterboard
> torture
>>69051757
Liberal puppetmasters spent tens of thousands of manhours and millions of dollars just to shut down /pol/. And /pol/ was never good in the first place. This same community was better when joot expressly forbade it from 4chan so we all hung out elsewhere. Site defunct and you get autobanned for mentioning it.
>>69051687
even wikipedia. but the source is the CIA in their official report.
Put the taco down and look up common facts.
Here's a redpill for ya: torture isn't used by governments to extract actionable intel, it's used to force people into giving false conventions so the torturers can pretend they're doing a good job and keep getting funding and get people to "admit" to whatever the authority of the days agenda is. It's all a scam and torture always has been all the way back to medieval times where they forced people to admit to impossible things like witchcraft.
That's why the CIA's "best" torture techniques (sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, stress positions) are also things that make you go crazy after a while. They don't want you to admit the truth, losing your grip on reality and not being able to remember anything from lack of sleep is obviously the opposite state you want someone to be in to tell you facts, they just want your mind to be pliable enough to suggestion that you'll admit to whatever bullshit charges they put in front of you. Not that pain based techniques are any different, people will eventually say whatever you want to get you to leave them alone, true or not, it's just more cost effective to keep them awake for a week in a dark room too small to sit in.
You're much better off manipulating the person into thinking you can help each other out to get accurate info from them, everyone's heroes the Nazi's best interrogator actually just went for a nice walk with enemies and they told him everything he wanted to know in casual conversation without even realizing it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff#Technique
>>69051909
Wins the thread.
>>69051855
Stop slapping your own butt, nobody wants to see it.
>>69043020
Torture works well, done properly. Waterboarding is an interrogation method that is close to torture that has inconsistent efficacy.
Most field torture is breaking fingers and then taking the guy with you to follow up while threatening his family, which gets the truth out immediately if he's fed you a line of bullshit.
Effective POW torture, you don't stop. You just don't stop, until his story is something substantive and useful, confirmed by field operatives. Then you remind him, "Remember that time you told the truth? Give us more. If what you say next is bullshit, the things you endured the last few days starts again, and they do not end."
>>69051766
Autism.
Just a disclaimer that girls don't want you to do that to them, okay?
the only thing that can be against torture is a strong faith.
Atheists can never handle torture
>>69051384
KSM spilled beans m8. None of us know how the beans were used, that isn't going to be revealed for 80+ years if at all. We do know that without that treatment he would have said nothing.
When he was first caputred he said "speak to my lawyer" lol. Don't think kafta ball.
Also, I repeat:
>Major General Carl Stiner stated that "Buckley's kidnapping had become a major CIA concern. Not long after his capture, his agents either vanished or were killed. It was clear that his captors had tortured him into revealing the network of agents he had established."
"Torture doesn't work" is a meme you've been conditioned to believe, against obvious facts, human nature, and your own personal experience.
>>69051909
10 minutes of waterboarding would be more than enough to convince you it is torture.
It makes you feel like you are going to die and suffocate.
If it gives you PTSD then it isn't an interrogation anymore.
>>69043020
The problem isn't that we torture savages. The problem is that the general public knows we torture savages.
>>69052203
Not how matters of law are adjudicated m8
Read Yoo
>>69052203
>if somebody cries then it's no longer worth stopping Boko Haram over
>>69052189
>KSM spilled beans m8.
He also confessed to Iraq being involved with 9/11 and the location of Osama. All was utter bullshit and was used as justification for starting the second Iraq war. That was the real reason why he was tortured.
It wasn't for information. It was all political, which is usually why people get tortured.
It's so fucking easy to get a mudslime to cave in and talk.
>get a pig
>slaughter it
>let the blood flow into a bucket
>threaten to dunk the mudslime's face into it
Really they are terrified of being sullied by pigs. They have an absolutely irrational fear of them.
>>69046707
That experiment was manipulated to hell and back
>>69050028
Fucking this
I can tell you right now if i was captured by an enemy that treated me well, i would be VERY likely to defect, especially if was a captured terrorist from some third world shit whole that only signed up with ISIS to feed myself
>>69043020
Either it does in no case, in some cases, or in all cases. 2/3rd of the times (supposing a uniform prior), it's better to do it than not.
>>69052203
> you feel like you are going to die
True torture will make you wish to die, not think that you will die. Dying is not the worst thing.
>>69052409
Waterboarding is more mild than this.
Your method would have Brussels-style attacks springing up all over the world as sleeper cells star shitting their pants in sudden panic.
>>69043213
>enhanced interrogation
my fucking sides, could you be more of a governmental shill?
>>69052300
>Read Yoo
Yoo has friends in high places, like a former president.
He's clearly a criminal and wrote brief around torture to "make it seem legit". That's all.
The irony is I can waterboard Yoo and make him agree with me.
For the IRA posters above
The IRA used torture whenever it captured opposition, or in all it's internal judicial processes. If they thought you were a spy or informant, they tortured you to get all the info out of you they could.
This whole "torture doesn't work" is a very modern meme of cucks who want their side to lose and to be forced to fight with one hand behind their backs.
Torture works, it's just distasteful to female voters. And because of that, and the fact that it works for our side, the Left want to take it away from us.
>>69052531
they gwnuinely think they would go to hell if this happened to them. It scares them more than actually brutal sadist torture.
>>69043020
Waterboarding is better long-term for the captives health than most other torture methods.
>>69052332
Torture people to get your rocks off or to make justification for political actions through confessions.
But don't tell me it's a sound interrogation technique to get intelligence. It's not.
>>69052537
>enemy-sympathizers pretending to be libertarian
Libertarian means respecting a community's right to deal with malicious backstabbers and street dons.
>>69052488
>torture advice from Vietnam
you're honestly more qualified to speak here.
This is what we should bring back
>>69052562
No, he's not a criminal. No charges against him. No disbarment. All the people he advised have not been charged with any crimes, because his adgice was sound and correct.
Obama has had radical leftists in charge of the Justice Department for 8 years now, not a single attempted charge against anyone for "torture", because Yoo was right and his advice was sound and correct.
Where are the charges? None because Yoo and Bush did nothing wrong.
>>69052044
Friend witnessed interrogations at Kandahar police bases. It's like other anon said, they tell you what they know then guage your reaction. They beat you after then guage reaction of being told about what data they already have, like telling them "The Taliban forward command base is here right?". Repeat until you are satisfied with them confirming what you already know, hand confession to sign.
>>69052703
>hurting people is wrong!
>t. proponents of doing absolutely nothing about mass-executions of Christians
>>69052537
Cuck
Cuck
Cuck
Why do you hate America so much you would deny them a legal effective tactic, that is used by it's enemies?
Answer: Because you are a cuck.
Torture can cause somebody to say something they didn't really do, because torture is really hard to endure. Once authorities have a "confession", even if it's just from the guy who can't stand the torture, saying, "yes, yes I did it!"
Fuck, man.
>>69052688
I don't agree. If you make someone completely, irreversibly batshit insane from waterboarding then they are useless.
How can future interrogations go with people who only scream when you enter the room and smear their shit on the walls?
>>69053026
>answer: because you earn one shilling per word posted
fix'd
>>69051992
>The Senate report, which drew almost entirely on the C.I.A.’s internal communications, makes a convincing case that [...] the interrogation of Mohammed produced some valuable information
Even your strongest case for torture not working has it working. I remain unconvinced.
>>69052562
No you can't. Has Obama authorised you to? Is only legal in particular circumstances. Otherwise it's still battery/assault. Try actually reading Yoo before you run your mouth.
>>69051757
>Winning or losing arguments is fun. Endless chirping like baby birds beging for regurgitated bits is masturbation.
You talk a lot of big game for some faggot that basically just posted a long winded TL:DR to my first post. You can scrounge through a variety of sources if you're capable of critical thought. If seeing something as inoffensive as "mouth breathing" is enough to trigger your black ass I could really care less.
You sound intelligent enough by /pol/ standards. You're just being a difficult cunt.
For the purpose of extracting information, no. But I has other uses.
>>69053090
Your doubt does not constitute evidence, nor does it require evidence from anyone else for the sake of your approval.
It's a fucking war. Don't set people on fire for being non-Muslim if you don't want a fight in your global ghetto. Reminder: your doubt doesn't mean a single fucking thing.
>>69044893
This is stupid you would still inhale the water
>>69052688
This too. It is a great interogation method, because it causes intense temporary discomfort without any permenant damage.
>>69052878
>No, he's not a criminal. No charges against him.
Not in America.
>Obama has had radical leftists in charge of the Justice Department for 8 years now
lol, you mean 2 black people. lol, no. Obama is Center right. He's Bush 2.0 on many of Bush's former policies as he just continued his work.
Considering Obama being in charge of the NSA, tell me he's a "liberal". Obama just not a neocon.
>>69046304
>they are savages so we should br savages too
No.
>>69052878
>Where are the charges? None because Yoo and Bush did nothing wrong.
You also greatly underestimate how hard it is to charge a President and his lawyers with a crime.
They have to piss everyone off and that just didn't happen. Too many people still in power are connected to it.
Just because you are not charged with a crime doesn't mean you didn't do something criminal or unethical.
>>69052909
That's one use of it, yes. It doesn't exclude other more productive uses of it.
It's like saying "most bullets fired from guns in war miss the enemy, therefore guns are ineffective against actual enemies". Yes, techniques can be used ineffectively or inappropriately, it doesn't mean they can't be used effectively and appropriately.
>>69045176
Well they probably didn't actually know anything.
>>69052935
I said hurting people don't work to get information out of them.
I'm all for droning Muslims to extinction.
It's not torture but it dosen't work and we know it dosen't work. There are ways that acutaily do work better than waterboarding does. It's poetic that we have a filthy sandnigger terrorist straped up and thinking he's drowning, but it dosen't change the fact waterboarding dosen't work.
>>69043020
>worked for the Spanish Reconquista
It works for me.
>>69053154
>I remain unconvinced.
Because you have already decided what to believe and you have selective reading.
>>69049431
Have you been tortured? Serious question.
>>69053266
>It's a fucking war.
which is why you shouldn't do needless or stupid things.
>>69052848
>These people are so primitive you can torture them with pig blood chinese water drop, tattooing their corpses or pouring dog piss on their face
How the hell did Spain take so long to get their country back
>>69053291
"Neocon" meant George H.W. Bush. Everyone following that president has been the same neutered globalist fuckwit who interferes with the generals and delivers a corrupted form of what's actually needed to fix anything. Coincidentally, Clinton + W.Bush + Obama are all baby boomers.
Other than Trump, no current US presidential candidate has ever competed over anything seriously, other than within the confines of government fast-track cronyism where they win by default.
>>69053505
>>69053291
Excuses excuses.
Yoo did nothing wrong. The failure of even any attempt of prosecution, let alone conviction, is a vindication of Yoo and the interogators.
You are LARPing as if it were 2006 if you still believe Yoo was wrong and the interogators criminals.
>>69043020
Threaten to chop their dick off if they don't talk. If they don't, then proceed to chop off their dick.
>>69053266
>Don't set people on fire for being non-Muslim if you don't want a fight in your global ghetto.
If you want to torture and kill people then just do that.
If you want to torture someone while pretending it's useful somehow it's a lie.
>>69053842
So the anti-waterboarding argument is basically:
>we're better than that!
Well good job saint, go make IS stop putting snuff porn on the internet and then the waterboarding crisis will be laid to rest.
>I don't believe this helps
nobody asked you
>>69045303
The French use of systematic torture in Algeria led to intel that blew open the FLN and practically won the French the war, at least militarily. However, it was politically unacceptable at home and led to a withdrawal.
>>69047645 has it right, once you start getting corroborations then you have your leads. The modern cell structure of terrorist groups will make it unlikely that you will build up a big set of leads, however, so torture (or any kind of individual interrogation) will not be of much use against them. This is more of a problem associated with single-source intelligence than with methods of interrogation though.
This 'torture is bad because it doesn't work' argument strikes me as a convincingly edgy way of arguing against it, but not being the real reason people oppose it. There's plenty of arguments against torture on practical and moral grounds but 'people being tortured will just tell you anything to make you stop' is not one of them - everybody breaks eventually and given enough time you'll start to run out of things to lie about. Particularly, if there's a specific question the torturer thinks you can provide the answer to, it's a fair bet they'll get it out of you if you do know it.
>>69053928
>The failure of even any attempt of prosecution, let alone conviction, is a vindication of Yoo and the interogators.
There is no one to prosecute him except for other people who would be guilty of the same crime.
It's a courthouse run by fellow criminals. Who could hold American government officials accountable? Who has that power? No one. They clearly don't do it for themselves and how could you trust them to?
You seem to think all of that is the same as "doing nothing wrong". You're an idiot and you're not even an American.
>>69054028
>Well good job saint, go make IS stop putting snuff porn on the internet and then the waterboarding crisis will be laid to
Again, if you want to torture people to get your rocks off and get revenge, then do just that.
Stop pretending there is some legitimate or useful reason for doing it. It's just "fun".
>>69054125
>This is more of a problem associated with single-source intelligence than with methods of interrogation though.
Exactly - the outcome is a matter of how well the job was done, not a matter of any one thing in particular being better than others.
Let the generals make the decision. If the decision works, then people can stop fucking with us if they don't like it. If the decision doesn't work, then somebody else is put in charge.
>>69054365
You're just parroting your social justice memes all day long. Nobody cares, go back to facebook.
No one wants to acknowledge the FACT that torture worked for Hezbollah against the US? >>69051341
Explain it if you are still dumb enough to believe the meme that "torture doesn't work". The meme was invented for Dems to bash Bush at the 2006 and 2008 elections. It's 2016, come on! No need to bother keeping the meme alive now, just accept the uncomfortable reality that torture works, and from there argue whether we should use it or not.
>>69054125
>This 'torture is bad because it doesn't work' argument strikes me as a convincingly edgy way of arguing against it, but not being the real reason people oppose it.
It's that you can't trust a tortured person and there are other ways to get information out of them and they work much better in the long term.
Stockholm syndrome is real.
>>69054447
You just can't defend your argument.
>>69054562
Nobody ever said we 'trust' them.
We beat them hell of a lot softer than they would beat us if the roles were reversed, and then we examine them. Generals decide, outcomes judge. Or politicians interfere and you get all the bad side with reversal of progress, as demonstrated by the Obama administration.
>>69054268
Sorry, every judge worked as a CIA interrogater or a Bush admin advisor? What meme universe do you live in? Shit excuse m8.
Yoo and the intereogaters did nothing wrong = FACT
>>69054644
'Argument' doesn't mean what you think it means, this isn't the Monty Python sketch. Actual conversations are going on; you're not participating you're just nitpicking and whining at people.
>>69052703
>But don't tell me it's a sound interrogation technique to get intelligence. It's not.
Fatass armchair scholar detected. Torture had worked since the dawn of civilizations and will always work on human.
Liberals think torture wont work because they think victims spill out to avoid the pain.
Thats totally wrong. With true torture, the victims spill out to beg for a mercy death. And nobody is stupid enough to release the tortured victims.
Torture is, in fact, much worse than death.
>>69054784
>You're just parroting your social justice memes all day long. Nobody cares, go back to facebook.
you really got me there, Austria. I mean, just look at those "FACTS".
You said "meme" and "facebook". I have clearly lost.
>>69055015
That post doesn't even contain this text. Learn the symptoms of a stroke bro.
>>69055083
>That post doesn't even contain this text.
I know.
