I really want to join Christianity, but something is holding me back. How do you accept Jesus as your saviour? I come from an atheistic upbringing, and I think it ruined me.
>>69040473
Study the world and history and eventually you'll independently derive Christianity without ever touching a Bible.
If you are a Christian you should kill yourself
>>69040789
Thanks for your support britbong
>>69040473
>Believing in fairy tales
>Needing a fictional Jew to be your 'saviour'
>>69040573
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Try these videos.
>>69040473
>Wanting to convert to a middle eastern religion.
I'm in the same position as OP. Lifelong atheist, however I support Christianity. The thing holding me back is I don't believe in turning the other cheek. I believe that some Christian ideas have led to liberalism.
How can I reconcile this?
Christianity is undoubtedly the base for Western civ, so I highly respect it, but ita that one fact that I can't submit to.
Any ideas? I already walk the walk, I just want to talk the talk.
>>69040473
He built the railroads for your sins.
Nobody takes Christianity seriously unless you move to Africa. Only religion people take seriously in the west is Islam.
The way most Christians in the west work are just by calling themselves Christian... That's it, everything you need. You can still reject the Bible, nearly all Christians view the Bible as incompatible with modern society.
>>69041319
Try to remember that liberalism filled the vacuum that poor education about Christ has been created by a lack of study of the bible and practicing Christs teachings.
Plus being a Christian means sacrifice in general.
Search for the truth in all things and you will know god
>>69041529
Lying is bad.
>>69040473
just stop being delusional, even jesus smoked a joint once in his life.
>>69040473
It is hard to do. Trust me. Same background as you. A good way is to say it to yourself a lot. Also, watch good movies detailing the story of Jesus. I teared up watching it, and it brought me to God
>>69041319
Jesus wants you to forgive your personal enemies. For invading armies, there is just war theory!
Read up on the book of John. That's a good place to start. From there, you can say the sinners prayer. Then start reading your bible, anywhere is good. Genesis and Exodus would be a good place to start
Step 1. Be scared of everything. (Hell, death, sinning, not being able to turn water into wine, etc.)
Step 2. Get on your knees and worship Jesus everyday
Welcome to Christianity
>>69041618
Yeah, you have a point. I guess the ideas of egalitarianism filled that uneducated void since it empowered common people.
When I say I walk the walk, I mean I went to Catholic schools my whole life, however my family is Protestant Scots. I know science doesn't explain everything, however I still can reconcile the Christian thoughts of universal acceptance.
Maybe I just watched Risen and have the hippy version of Christ in my mind haha
>>69041319
suck some dicks, you'll get there.
>>69041872
>>Jesus wants you to forgive your personal enemies.
AKA let people walk all over you.
Sorry faggot, I don't do forgiveness of people who fuck me over.
>>69041872
Can you give me more info or a place to read up on this? This is my one hangup with full acceptance..
>>69042109
And this is the hang up I am talking about. Turning the other cheek makes us all meek, and I really don't believe that the meek will inherit the earth.
>>69042043
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Try some of the videos here. I know you're gonna find stuff you find objectionable but if you really try you can find Christ.
>>69041659
Sins in the Bible are just viewed as historical. None of that matters anymore, you can lie as much as you want. As long as you believe jesus is some sort of man-god then everything is forgiven. Sins are a historical concept.
I'm sure you're already familiar with the bible already but really reading through the new testament (Mark and John my recommendations) and reasoning through Jesus' philosophy and actions is a fantastic place to start. Just the ideas and events themselves, without all of the tacked on theology from the last 2000 years, will get you on the right path.
>>69042109
>>69042218
I should clarify that I think I understand where he is coming from though personal enemies = petty stuff that we have done to each other?
>>69042275
You're just lying to yourself now.
WARNING
this is not a jewish shill thread at all goyim!!
>>69040473
Read the new testament. Ask yourself if Jesus is a man to aspire to. If his teachings should be taught to your kids. Go from there.
>>69042098
Netherlands - most atheist country in Western Europe, also the first to legalize gay marriage in 2001
The eternal Dutchman will try and blind you with his tolerance, but deep down they are a bunch of atheist hedonists aligned with Jews. (Don't forget the Dutch slave ships which brought negros into America)
>>69041319
You can be an atheist and still live by the morals of Jesus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
>>69040473
Hey, the best thing you can do is study, study, study. If you believe in the resurrection, you believe in Christianity.
Mike Licona has done many talks on different aspects of the resurrection. Here is a playlist. Watch which ever has the most interesting title.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-0zpu2toenZF1QZ-ZqaSvFsFXX7EzQLh
Below is an argument I use on Atheists to get them into a historical and logical state of mind:
These 5 points are accepted by virtually all New Testament scholars, even agnostics and atheist scholars.
1. Jesus died on the cross.
2. The apostles believed (key word) that they saw the risen Jesus.
3. James who doubted Jesus's divinity was radically changed after his death.
4. Paul who persecuted Christians accepted Christ after he claimed to receive a vision.
5. The grave where Christ was buried was found empty.
Based on these 5 facts, try to present an argument better than the resurrection.
Note that Jesus appeared to groups of people and mass hallucinations don't happen. Visions in hallucinations are also very rare.
Note that Jesus could not have survived the crucifixion and even if he did, the apostles would have seen a heavily disfigured Jesus instead of the glorified one they claimed to have saw.
Note that there were no advantages to being a Christian at that time.
Note that few people would die for what they know to be false.
Note that they couldn't have stolen the body out of a grave guarded by the Romans. This idea doesn't explain the resurrection visions either.
>>69040473
Read the New Testament and the Gnostic Scriptures
>>69042583
everyone knows jew hate Jesus
FOUND THE KIKE!!
>>69042695
ad hominem much kike?
>>69042324
Is this meant for me?
>>69042257
Thanks, I'm going to give it a look for sure.
Like I said, Christianity is the foundation for the West. Those edgelords who proclaim that the Bible is out of context have some ground, but that does Christianity a gray injustice. I can't see how you can be a Western man and hate or despise Christianity(In general, not trying to get secular). Even the 'strong Nords' of Asatru...you have been influenced by Christ, as the Nordic nations are Christian nations now(until atheist popularity). The West is Christian.
>>69040473
Read the New Testament. Then try to ask the same question. Don't read theology and such, its all garbage. Religion is in doing
>>69040473
If you don't feel ready (something is holding you back), then you aren't ready to become Christian. You can't force it,then you'll not be happy.
Do you have a spiritual father in the church? Try reaching out to a local parish and see about meeting with a priest who can talk to you about these faith matters.
>>69040473
You need the aid of the church for the slow progress.
You can't become a holy Christian over night - too much zeal is from demons - always remember that.
Visit the closest orthodox church.
>>69040473
go to RCIA classes (Catholic). just go and listen, you don't have to participate.
for me it was just reasoning it out. I was a big-time militant atheist. I spent decades scoffing and mocking anyone that was religious around me, even family members. One day I decided that ultimately, the world is being consumed by literal evil. not bad choices. not bad people, teaching bad things. it is literally evil seeping in and taking over the minds of the faithless. there's a good reason why the vatican has been ramping up their exorcism division. worldwide. they see it as well.
so i said to myself, if evil exists, the opposite must be true. i mean, if one side of the story is obviously manifesting and showing itself so obviously all over the world, then goodness must also exist. it has to. if goodness didn't exist, the world would've been destroyed by evil long ago, so something has to be fighting it; keeping it at bay.
once i reasoned this out in my mind, i decided 'fuck it' i'm going to believe in Jesus. i forced my mind to open up and at the very least, entertain the notion that God/Jesus is absolutely real, and is the correct path. So I began going to RCIA classes and other bible study type groups.
I am now a happy and practicing/devout Catholic, was baptized in 2014. I look back at the wasted years and wish I had straightened up sooner, but I guess better late than never.
>>69042899
I will pray for you. Keep praying even if you feel like you aren't being answered. God will soften your heart.
I know how hard it is to do this when your heart feels so hard you could light a match on it but keep trying. You will succeed.
>>69042897
I'm Roman Catholic, I have no idea what you are shilling about.
>>69040473
Tell me you don't actually believe in jewish fairy tales.
I mean it's one thing if you just hate gay people or whatever, but there's tons of stupid magical shit in christianity that no thinking person can believe really happened.
Tell me you're not that retarded.
>>69040473
>get really hard into drugs and alcohol
>ruin every relationship around you
>turn to god because youre a worthless fuck who needs bullshit reasons to better your life instead of just wanting to do it
>congratulate yourself
>>69043099
why even reply, you shitposters astound me on your absolute retardedness.
>>69043015
Also OP if you have questions about Christianity, devoted priests and monks already wrote down an "lesson" and simple and as much as church could complete answer - so consult the catechism.
http://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith
http://sttikhonsmonastery.org/about_orthodoxy.html
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/catechism.html
Also use: http://orthodoxwiki.org
for various things - enter prophets names, concepts, and so on and you'll have a great lecture on the subject.
Wow, not sure if the thread is full of shills or just edgy fedora memers.
What you have to realize is that God has been with you the entire time, even when you didn't believe in him or was an atheist. He is with you now. The holy spirit dwells within all of us as human beings. We, made in God's image, are all sinners. The punishment for sin is death. God however, sent his one and only son to Earth who lived a sinless life and was crucified. Because of his sacrifice, he is offering all of mankind a gift of eternal life. He has paid for our sins with his own sacrifice, so that we don't have to it. It is a gift and all you have to do is accept it. If I were you I would just read the bible, I know it is long but the word of God is all you need. Just start in the new testament if you want. Read the king james version.
>>69043099
so you are oblivious of the fact that jews hate jesus?
jews hate your fucking guts.
>>69043379
*tips fedora*
Baptised but unconfirmed Christian here. Is it bad for me to take Communion (Eucharist)?
I hear that confirmation is required, but some people tell me that Baptism is the important bit. The exact rules seem vague.
>>69043750
I never said otherwise. I know that?
Dafuq is your point?
>>69043752
*tips menora*
>>69043776
if it's not Catholic or Orthodox, it doesn't really matter. Those are the only two churches that truly follow the word of Christ.
but yes, do not take communion if you aren't in good graces with the lord. not being confirmed is in that category. your sponsor should've let you know this.
>>69040473
If you want to witness a true miracle of KEK, go to this thread
>>69038677
>>69043776
If you are catholic you can't go to holy communion until you've gone through the rites.
Talk to a priest about it
>>69043776
I believe you need at minimum to go through first communion. You should never receive the body of Christ in a state of mortal sin. If you haven't been to confession in a while, you should go.
>>69044190
Absolute retard, get off the petrol m8
>>69040473
>>>/adv/
What's the best type of Christianity? Catholicism seems interesting, but the whole pope thing really turns me off. I like the ritualistic traditional parts of it though
>>69042842
I encourage all my fellow Christians to memorize this 5 facts approach. It turns any discussion into one about hard facts and allows people to work through historically verifiable claims.
>>69042842
Which is more likely?
That a man rose from the dead because he's the incarnation of a celestial superbeing on earth or that some people lied, behaved irrationally, or were under a misapprehension?
Most of your so called facts are based on information only present in the bible which for obvious reasons is not a reliable source. It's dodgy business to even prove that there was a historical Jesus. It's mostly just guesswork based on the success of christianity. Let alone trying to prove that there were Romans guarding Jesus' tomb. (Who guards a tomb, honestly? You really think the Romans care if someone steals the corpse of someone they killed?) Or that the tomb was then found empty.
>>69043070
>yfw good and evil is completely subjective and your reasoning is completely unsubstantiated within reality.
If this isn't a troll post you're one of the dumbest persons I've seven on here in a long while
>>69044405
my whore just arrived
enjoy your hand you faggot buttfucker
>>69040789
Thanks achmed
>>69043987
>>69044045
>>69044152
Thanks for the answers.
I'm not Catholic, so confession isn't really done at the churches I go to.
I don't know exactly how the Church of England defines “good graces with the Lord”, though I have been playing it safe and not taking communion.
>>69044894
All this edge. Lord have mercy on my sides.
>>69045328
Just go to church mate. Sit up the back the first few times and get a feel for it.
>>69044672
You should study up on your Roman history.
Let start with the graves. The Romans absolutely did care. The high priest convinced them that if the tomb was not guarded, the body would be stolen and the headache would start all over again.
The tomb was sealed and the official seal of the Romans was put on it. By military standard, 16 Roman guards were set to guard the tomb and if the seal was broken, they would pay with their lives. The assured that they did care.
If they didn't care, why couldn't the Jews produce a body? Why did they bribe the guards to say that it was stolen.
These things can be verified by non biblical sources. Historicans such as Josephus (a Jew and Jews hated Christians) provide very interesting information.
Not to mention that the Gospels are historically accurate (verifyably so) and were written within 25-100 years of Jesus's death. If you have ever studied figures from antiquity, you know that such dating is amazingly close to the events described.
This is gonna be super biased cause I've gone to Catholic school for 12 years of my life, but what I've realized, especially in highschool, is that the people who are atheists (at least during highschool) are pretty blatantly mean or sad people. I'm not gonna talk Christianity up like it's fun all the time, getting persecuted in a world growingly progressive, but the fact that it gives you an outlet from the amalgamations of bullshit is nice. You feel like you belong a little bit more, and believing in something is a lot better because you have morals to uphold, and you won't be a fuckwit criticising other religions.
>>69045558
I do go to church man. I take a blessing instead of communion, though I have unconfirmed friends taking communion. That's where my confusion stems from.
>>69045817
If you are Catholic, you usually receive the Sacrament of the Eucharist before Confirmation.
I took communion once on Scout Sunday. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. It is the only time I have ever been in a church. (Lifelong atheist) . I can confirm it is not poisonous, and Jesus tastes like a thin sheet of dried wallpaper paste
>>69045661
>atheists are blatantly mean or sad people in high school
>teenagers in general aren't just blatantly mean or sad people in high school
>implying that a person doesn't have morals to uphold if they're an atheist.
Anon. Stahp.
You're generalizing a large segment of people based on personal anecdotes and topping it off with bullshit.
>>69042785
Just following the morals is empty though.
Sometimes I wish we atheists had something to give us a sense of community, like with the christians. But I just can't bring myself to pretend to believe in fairytales. It just isn't fun. I wish I was a small child without a real understanding of nature again sometimes.
>>69040473
Christianity is a relationship with Jesus. Start with conversation. Just accept Jesus as your Lord. Ask Jesus to come into your heart as your Lord and Savior, and to cleanse you of your sins, recognizing he died and rose so that you can know God as your father.
That you have to believe. Meaning-- you have to believe Jesus will be your Lord if you ask him to. Then just thank him. Begin to read the Gospels to get an idea of who Jesus is as a person. Jesus is the word, so reading the Bible, particularly the Gospels, really is encountering Jesus.
If you move towards God he actually runs to you. He's done all the work. He just wants to you to put enough faith in him that you would move towards God. it is okay to talk with God about the things you don't understand, even if they are doubts about God.
>>69046509
It was Catholic clerics who began modern science as we know it.
There is plenty of material evidence for miracles (the Shroud of Turin is an image caused by radiation, and only a few microns thick, only made possible by the resurrection). Materialism is a 18th century fairy tale created by atheists who didn't want to have to live by Christian morality.
Accept your sins and that you are an imperfect being. Stop striving for holiness. Instead, admit that you will never be less sinful than others, and that it is your duty to lead others away from sinful hypocrisy.
>>69040573
Study the Tanach enough and you'll be turned off to Abrahamic religions of all stripes.
>>69040789
Nice try, Amir.
>>69046287
A person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
>>69045584
You're just making shit up. Or I should say you're repeating bullshit you read in some christian book more likely.
And none of it makes sense. Why would they care if the body was stolen? Why would that "start the headache all over again"? Hell, why would they bother to steal a corpse out of the tomb that Joseph of Arimathea dropped some mad denarius to buy? Tombs were a huge luxury.
Even if I grant that they needed to appease the Jews by guarding the tomb for no reason, 16 guards that would be executed if they failed? Are you fucking kidding me?
And Josephus barely mentions Jesus. There's like one line where he mentions hearing about some guy named Jesus elsewhere. Which is proof only that christianity existed.
>the Gospels are historically accurate (verifyably so)
Okay, that's it, you're just fucking with me. That's what this is.
>>69042218
Listen faggot. Forgiving people does NOT mean you have to give them anything. Forgiveness is acknowledging that as a human, you and your enemy are both sinners and to not be stupid and small minded enough not to look at the bigger reasons why people do evil things.
If someone murders your mother, you strive to forgive him because it will free you and because it is honest, but you don't have to let that person live with you or come near you or anyone you love. You can acknowledge that someone should rot in prison for the rest of their lives and still forgive them.
Forgiveness =/= trust
Forgiveness requires strength to stay honest and still not get cucked. Being blinded by rage will only fuck you up further.
>>69046953
>Study the Old Testament
>Without looking at the New Testament
>Understanding Christianity
Nigga, you dumb. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old that significantly changes the way of things.
>>69046014
Not Catholic, but I have read that holy communion can be taken as part of the learning for confirmation.
Thing is, the people I know taking unconfirmed communion aren't on confirmation courses, nor are they intending on getting confirmed any time soon. Are they in the wrong?
>>69042405
Most of the self-proclaimed Christians I know are perfectly comfortable with being unanalytical shitheads to their peers, nevermind the nothing that they strive to do for those less fortunate.
Dude ain't lying, he's just observant.
>>69047191
http://www.equip.org/article/recent-perspectives-on-the-reliability-of-the-gospels/
Nigga, the Gospels are absolutely reliable by the criteria historians use for ancient texts.
>>69047234
Think I found an answer.
>In some dioceses children are admitted to Holy Communion when they reach an age at which they can understand the meaning of the Eucharist or Holy Communion (to the extent as any of us ever can understand it). This means that some young people will come to confirmation having been participating in Holy Communion while others will receive their first Communion after Confirmation.
https://www.churchofengland.org/our-faith/confirmation/frequently-asked-questions.aspx
>>69042275
That's the fault of people, not Christianity. When Christianity is weak culturally, of course people won't observe it. The Same can be said for European identity, does that mean we do away with Europe?
>>69047396
>christian website
Nigga you have no idea what a reliable source is.
>>69046816
Yeah it's nice if you can satisfy your mind with that and sincerely believe in it and all, but that's not gonna do it for me.
>>69047577
Have you read the article? Can you refute any of it? Can you identify what exactly is wrong with any of the information? Or are you just another fedora nigger whining about "bias" while only looking at things you agree with?
>>69047191
Google dude, use it. You're just going to call bullshit on everything I say so do your own independent research. Try to provide an alternative to the 5 point model I laid out. Don't do this for me, do it for yourself. Give yourself a few months to research and then come to an educated conclusion. That's all I ask people.
>>69046175
I have yet to meet an atheist that is not insensitive to religious beliefs. I never said people didn't have moral codes either. There are a set of natural morals, like you shouldn't kill or steal and shit. Some morals take a lot of thought to determine and define. There is a reason a lot of people who don't believe in God think slaughtering babies is fucking okay. If everyone is born with such an upstanding moral code, I don't know how you could justify that.
>>69047707
Alright, cunt, what exactly is your "superior understanding" that invalidates God? Most atheists aren't actually that smart.
>>69047219
The New Testament is far more sophisticated a compilation of literature that is just so rich in contemporary politics and symbolism; it's legit a pretty cool thing to get into as long as you're down with the problem of the Septuagint and its relationship with the NT.
But the Tanach is pretty problematic. The Documentary Hypothesis and its relationship to the (canon) idea that Moses penned the Pentateuch; the barely-suppressed polytheism of the age of the beginning of its compilation; the problem of the book of Job and the role of Satan; there are just so many fuckups. I really wish Jesus and the other founders of the religion had not decided to pile doctrine onto such a shit foundation; it's practically Nebuchadnezzar's dream given form.
>>69040473
It's easy, just keep hitting your head with a brick until you get brain damage
>>69040473
Just remember that it is a process. Go at your own pace, ask questions, and don't be afraid to challenge assumptions/presuppositions.
The best advice would probably be to find a local church and start from there. I recommend finding a "reformed" church of some kind but you can worry about this later once you start to have some foundation.
There are some very good debates between Christians/Atheists and others if interested. I recommend listening to some of William Lane Craig's debates for a more classical, philosophical approach to God (though I do not agree with Molinism/Arminianism/"mere Christianity" camp). Greg Bahnsen vs Gordon Stein would be my pick for the TAG/reformed approach, Paul Manata vs Derek Sansone is good to.
>http://worldviewnaturalism.com/debates/
For some resources to answer questions you might there are numerous good sites but my pick would be:
carm.org
aomin.org
>>69047794
I don't need to read your bullshit article. The gospels are internally contradictory with each other. Calling them reliable or historically accurate isn't just nonsense. It's logically unsound.
If Matthew says X and Mark says not X then they can't both be accurate because that would be saying X and not X = true
>>69047207
I can see your point. I'm going to think about this a bit more.
>>69048049
What is your pic alluding to?
>>69047234
>>69047481
Yea so they aren't technically in the wrong, cause confirmation basically is affirming the beliefs made during Baptism when you were too young to do so (or you do all 3 Sacraments of Initiation on the Easter Vigil). Confirmation is normally done when you have put thought into your religion and realize that it is the community you want to be a part of. So communion can be taken to discern your role in the Church to see if it is indeed the right fit, but you arent a complete member of the Church until after Confirmation so idk what they are doing.
>>69040473
Avoid protestants like fire.
Trust me.
>>69048504
Would you say protestants are more accepting of degenerate behavior?
>>69048409
It is a straw man image meant to poke "fun". Was just a random pic I had.
>>69047911
All of your objections have been explained by Dr. Michael Heiser.
http://drmsh.com/
Look around his website, you'll find what you're looking for.
>>69048305
Last post before I go.
Did the Titanic sink? Some reported that it split in half before it sank while others reported that it sank whole. Did it sink, even with these contradictions?
The contradictions you speak of are actually just differences. Was there one or two angels at the tomb? Does it matter? All report Jesus not being in the tomb.
Learn about the literary conventions of Greco-Roman biographies and this will all make sense.
Start with slitting your wrists.
>>69048305
The nice thing about the Gospels is that unlike Joseph Smith or his older brother Muhammad, they aren't meant to be considered verbatim citations from a divine source; they're the recollections of human beings who were supposed to have merely witnessed divinity.
>>69048305
>I don't need to read your bullshit article.
Amazing how atheists think they know everything when they never read anything.
>The gospels are internally contradictory with each other.
Shame you don't read more, you wouldn't believe such old atheist memes.
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/DefendingTheGospels.htm
>>69048305
You might be retarded. 3 of the Gospels are fucking known as the synoptic Gospels, meaning they literally mimic each other. The only one that could be unsound is John, which is know as the poetic and metaphoric one. The other 3 Gospels either taken some stories out or put some stories in. You need to educate yourself, champ.
>>69048690
>It is a straw man image meant to poke "fun".
No shit. At what?
It's easy enough to find educated Christians who explain why they believe.
Here's John Lennox, a Mathematician from Oxford.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGrbrKWZFJg
>>69048618
Yes they are because I believe at least some believe in Predestination, meaning they are destined already to go to hell or heaven, so they believe nothing will affect the outcome, so they just can kinda do shitty things as much as they want.
ask jesus for forgiveness as you kys to meet him.
>>69048945
>another christian website
>literally says apologetics in the url
Fuck it, I'm done talking to you. You need to read your bible instead of christian propaganda articles.
>>69048305
Here is a good debate on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-4HGcksXiY
>>69049358
You were making argument that talk about the Bible. Did you never consider that maybe Christians would have an answer to some of them?
>>69040473
Western culture derived from Christianity. Root word of "culture" is "cult". This society's foundations is based off of a religion wether you like to believe it or not. The ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Japanese, Mayans, Spanish, Indian Anglo (etc.) were each started from their individual type of religion.
>>69049358
Do you know how hard the Bible is to discern without a proper teacher? The fact that you are saying people shouldn't use Christian sources is completely counter productive. Stop being such a conceited retard, read the article, see if you can find those points somewhere else, and then if you can't, it is bullshit.
>>69049041
Teleological argument (argument from design/intelligent design argument )
>>69040473
Firstly, forget the modern evangelical/pentecostal thing of "Accepting Jesus as your savior", the faith is like a plant you need to slowly cultivate, to cultivate your faith you need to pray, read the bible, and read the Church Fathers. When your plant will be cultivated enough, you will naturally acquire a christian perception of the world and act like a christian, then you will be a christian.
I'd like to Join Christianity but you fucks are a bunch of self hating and self defeating faggots turn the other cheek cucks.
>Somalians imported to OHIO.
45,000+ Somali live in Ohio.
25% of Somalis Immigrants speak English well enough to get a job, especially the young people.
40% have become citizens of the United States of America
80% live with their families
Average Family has 7-8 members
99.9% of Somali are Muslims
57% are eligible to become U.S. Citizens
The number of Somali's living in central Ohio will continue to increase in the next 5 years
Unemployment is rate is higher 5% then state average rate.
The government pays Christian organizations to help them settle here.
Soro's and others fund these Church organizations that do this.
https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/refugee-resettlement-fact-sheets/
There are 9 main major refugee resettlement organizations (Volags from “Voluntary Agency”) with approximately 450 affiliated organizations throughout the country; many are run by former refugees.
Below are the 9 Volags that operate today:
US Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB),
Lutheran Immigrant Aid Society (LIRS),
International Rescue Committee (IRC),
World Relief Corporation,
Immigrant and Refugee Services of America (IRSA),
Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (HIAS),
Church World Service (CWS),
Domestic and Foreign Missionary Service of the Episcopal Church of the USA,
Ethiopian Community Development Center (ECDC),
Below are some of the sources of income for Volags:
a. $1,850 per refugee (including children) from the State Department.
b. Up to $2,200 for each refugee by participating in a U.S. DHHS program known as Matching Grant. To get the $2,200, the Volag need only show it spent $200 and gave away $800 worth of donated clothes, furniture or cars.
c. The Volag pockets 25% of every transportation loan it collects from refugees it “sponsors”.
d. All Volag expenses and overhead in the Washington, DC HQ are paid by the U.S. government.
>>69040473
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
>>69047889
I don't have a "superior understanding" that invalidates a god. I just don't see hiw the existence of a supernatural being is the default. It is not the default position for me and since I have never seen sufficient evidence for one, I'm not going to belive in it. Simple as that.
>>69040473
Its not some fuckin club m8. Just believe in the virgin birth and read the teachings of Christ. Do not speak of a 'trinity' for God is 1. Christ =/= God. Trump is the second coming
>>69040473
>How do you accept Jesus as your saviour?
Pray that you accept Him as your Lord and Savior.
http://www.wikihow.com/Accept-Christ-As-Your-Savior
God bless you, brother.
>>69047837
>There is a reason a lot of people who don't believe in God think slaughtering babies is fucking okay
I can't think of a single western society that justifies the slaughter of babies, what are you referring to?
>>69041319
>>69040473
Try praying and ask God to show himself to you in some way.
Jesus loves you and you will receive that love if you pray sincerely.
>>69048790
Please. If you do not have a means of explaining these inconsistencies yourself, do not try to dissolve my time rooting through likely hundreds of pages of biased text searching them out. Heiser is an authority, but there are far more than one authorities on this topic.
The Septuagint is a problem because portions of the Gospels quote it directly (rather than the Hebrew Tanach) and fail to mention the Tetragrammaton for the same reason that the oldest copies of the Gospels are all in Greek: Because the early literature for the Christian Church was not written by people who spoke or wrote Hebrew, nor were their words for people who did so. It was by and for Greek-speakers from the start. This is why YHWH is in exactly zero Gospel manuscripts - YHWH does not translate into Greek, and so guys translating the Septuagint opted for "Lord" whenever it and Elohim needed to be translated. Pretty okay thing for the time and definitely functional for those writing the first books that would be compiled into the NT, as YHWH and Elohim refer to the same entity, but it shows the authors' hands and calls into question anything that might have been challenged by people on-location in the Levant (read: everything); the Greek placement explains the obvious realpolitik of the time - that is, painting the monstrous Pontius Pilate in a more-favorable light (handy for ingratiating the Romans in Achaea at the time), not having to deal with all the doctrinally-educated hard-liners proximal to the Temple, being able to modify the Jesus character from what he very likely was, which was an anti-Roman popular agitator - this is just one problem. The Septuagint is just *one* problem, and I've only talked about a part of it.
There are so many fucking problems.
Conduct an independent exegesis and read your heart out. Take notes on all of the books and put them in your Bible. Cross-reference as much as you can.
>>69040789
Inshallah, brother
>>69050039
Damn dude that sounded gay as shit
>>69040473
>>69040473
>(Deuteronomy 4:29) “If YOU do look for Jehovah your God from there, you will also certainly find him, because you will inquire for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
>(Matthew 7:7) “Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to YOU.
>(Luke 11:9) Accordingly I say to YOU, Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to YOU.
>(Mark 11:24) This is why I tell YOU, All the things YOU pray and ask for have faith that YOU have practically received, and YOU will have them.
>(James 1:5) So, if any one of YOU is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him.
>(1 John 5:14) And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that, no matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us.
>>69043110
>make mistakes like every human does
>ruin relationships because of said mistakes
>find a positive outlet to help reform yourself and mend those broken relationships
Whats the problem faggot?
>>69042842
Thanks. I'm a "none" but I don't like Christianity for a lot of reasons.
>>69050319
Did you read >>69042842 ? unless you can honestly come up with a better explanation for those 5 (and/or reject them for sound reasons) then Christianity is the default position.
>>69051040
I'm not doing the "If you accept all my unbased presuppositions you will come to the conclusion I want"-thing again. I've done it plenty of times and I'm tired of it. To make it short I do not see sufficient evidence for any of your 5 assumptions. Heck the fact that no contemporary (in the sence of real contemporary, not 40 years later) jewish historian in jerusalem (and there were a few) found it to be noteworthy that a guy just rose from the fucking dead, is a huge red flag to me.
>>69040473
I am unsure of what is so difficult to understand. Christianity is probably the easiest religion to join.
Just accept that Jesus was the son (messenger/prophet) of God, came to Earth to spread the truth, and died for our sins (previous religions usually made you physically repent).
That's it. Live a good life after - everything in moderation and don't do bad things.
>>69051601
>Live a good life after - everything in moderation and don't do bad things.
That's not really the point though. The point is that you probably won't live a good life, but it's okay, Jesus got you covered.
It sucks that loads of people define Christianity by "don't drink, don't smoke, don't have sex before marriage, don't do this or that", and are surprised when people quit Christianity because it's too "hard" or too "restrictive". Christianity is about forgiveness - about a God that loves us beyond comprehension, that sees our failures, past and future, and made a plan to free us from the penalties of his righteous judgment, by taking the penalty (death) upon himself (in the body of Jesus), becoming a substitute.
>>69042334
Yes, partly. There is a time to forgive and a time to remember. It also means that you are not letting your desire for revenge to consume you or anything like that.
Jesus doesn't expect you to be perfect, no one is.
>>69051591
>no contemporary (in the sence of real contemporary, not 40 years later) jewish historian in jerusalem (and there were a few) found it to be noteworthy that a guy just rose from the fucking dead
The Jewish structures that existed didn't like Jesus. Perhaps they saw him as a witch?
In any case pretty much all historians agree he existed, so (inb4 muh appeal to authority) there is something we are both missing about this criticism.
>mfw i want to join a religion but I don't have the suspension of disbelief.
I want to believe in ghosts and magic but I know it's not real
I just want purpose but I can't believe in any of the crap, I just can't
>>69050164
Cultural Marxists have infiltrated ever important cultural institution. That doesn't mean the institutions are invalid. Just that the corruption has to be identified and stopped. Poland, Hungary, and Russia are Christian nations with the right idea. Christianity traditionally has supported strong nationalism. If you don't do anything about the problem, you're part of it.
>>69050319
You claimed in your original post that you have a "real understanding of nature", and now it's because you haven't seen anything. Which is it, you sophistic fag?
Here's Anthony Flew exlpaining why he believes there is a god.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHUtMEru4pQ
>>69050743
You asked a lot of (poorly structured) questions, I'm not going to waste my time trying to decipher your horseshit when I know about an expert who has talked about the subjects you touched upon at length.
>do not try to dissolve my time rooting through likely hundreds of pages of biased text searching them out
Use the search bar, you lazy cunt. Why do atheist always complain about "bias" when there's a possibility that a Christian might prove them wrong? Do you faggots hate reading that much?
And early copies of the Septuagint did contain "YHWH".
http://www.eliyah.com/lxx.html
The Septuagint was quoted because it was the one most widely known to the pagans in the Roman world. The Hebrew Christians could have easily comparedit with the Hebrew versions available to notice any discrepancies.
You stupid fucking nigger.
>>69052684
Christianity has been historically verified, you dumb Burgernigger.
>>69052815
Please give me sources because I want to believe.
I WANT TO BELIEVE
>>69052684
>>69052917
>Regarding the physical (as opposed to visual) properties of the image, the STURP team found themselves baffled. They concluded that the image is only microns thick on the outer surface of the linen, and does not penetrate the textile’s fibres the way paint, pigment, stain, or dye does. They reported that the image was more like a slight discolouration of the very top surface of the linen’s fibres, as if by ‘oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the polysaccharide structure of the microfibrils of the linen itself’. They also concluded that what appear to be blood flows emanating from the many wounds are genuine blood containing haemoglobin and serum albumin.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/04/if-the-turin-shroud-is-the-work-of-a-medieval-artist-its-one-of-the-greatest-artworks-ever-created/
>how do I become more retarded
>>69053141
Why do you gotta be a dick? I said I want to believe, but I can't. I don't care if it's Christianity or some pagan shit, I just want to see SOMETHING that can convince me.
I am not some euphoric prick.
Double Slit experiment
Also look at history and how not following jesus 'rules' are destroying America currently.
>>69040473
I'd pray to God to ask for forgiveness of your sins and turn your life to him. You can do it anywhere, at any time. You don't have to be baptized to be saved, but it would be nice. Once you've given your life to the Lord, you're covered of your sins and can live a new life.
Good luck anon! If you need help, I'd suggest joining a local church or bible study and get help from other Christians there. Make sure it's not a weird sect of Christianity like new-age or something, but they take everything from the Bible and can back up their claims.
>>69052708
There were many Septuagints; what is critical is that many did not contain the Tetragrammaton, and what is *most* critical is that the Gospels' did not.
The Septuagint was quoted because the Jewish community in Greece had been taking off for a pair of centuries and, being removed from their more-theologically-disciplined roots, were better-inclined to know Greek than Hebrew. You are correct in your observation that Greek converts would be easier-obtained using their own lingua franca, but to assert that Hebrew Christians would rather use a Greek text and write their findings exclusively in Greek over their native tongue - particularly for academic and canonical philosophy - is stupid. We already see what "easily compared" brought about: That Everything is in Greek tells us that Christianity is specifically Levantine-exclusionary. We have to conclude that the whole-cloth of the religion itself follows this trend.
Use your fucking brain.
>>69050752
Well you can replace plant by "A thing who will make you based" and cultivate by "The action who will make you based".
>>69040473
>atheistic upbringing
What a bunch of bullshit, no such thing. There is either religious upbringing or not. How can you upbring into atheism? Atheism is nothing else than not believing in god, there is no upbringing.
Only people who rock bottom or almost die -death risk life experiences eventually accept jesus as their saviours if they are from a atheistic upbringing
>>69053211
http://www.badarchaeology.com/out-of-place-artefacts/mysterious-objects/turin_shroud/
>The methods used by STURP did not include radiocarbon dating. When initially set up, it had a radiocarbon subcommittee (composed of Robert Dinegar, Ray Rogers and David Sox), but was not included on the list of authorised tests released on 24 April 1978 by Don Piero Coero-Borga of the Centro Internazionale di Sindonologia. A furious David Sox released the list of tests to The Times, which published it on the front page. Coero-Borga’s reasoning was that “the Pollen Test has given very positive results with regard to the age and history of the Shroud” and should be extended acrosss a wider area. This is, of course, completely wrong: the pollen can only be used to date the Turin Shroud if one assumes that it was in Palestine at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus, a completely circular argument. ... Pollen analysis carried out by STURP failed to replicate the results obtained a few years earlier by Max Frei. The team was critical of his findings and did not produce any new pollen evidence. Nevertheless, supporters of the Shroud tend to cite Frei’s analysis, while glossing over the criticisms raised by the STURP team.
>Eric Jumper himself later said “The 3-D business doesn’t prove anything about the Shroud… it’s just an observation”. In other words, it’s a version of the well-known analyst’s maxim GIGO (“garbage in, garbage out”), meaning that the production of the image in three dimensions is a red herring, an example of data manipulation rather than of anything inherent in the data. Nevertheless, the wrong-headed claim of three-dimensional encoding continues to be touted by believers in the Turin Shroud’s authenticity as one of the most significant pieces of evidence for its origin.
>>69054068
it's a "i'm just like you" approach to evangelicalism
>>69053307
>Leaf on vacation
Don't you have to go back home and let a Syrian immigrant rape your wife, Leafnigger?
>>69040789
shalom, jew
>>69053434
The only thing destroying America right now is an election system that promotes voting for a lesser evil instead of who you actually think would be best to run the country, the hilariously biased gerrymandering of political districts, and the notion that corporations are people and should be allowed to dump however much money they want into the political system.
>>69040473
First accept that jesus never was and never will be white.
>>69040473
I'm agnostic and struggling with the same question. I also don't know which branch of Christianity to follow. There's a ludicrous amount. I'm not into the idea of formal, rigid worship either, but I'm not sure what Christians think of non-organised Christianity.
>>69054415
>The only thing destroying America right now is an election system that promotes voting for a lesser evil instead of who you actually think would be best to run the country, the hilariously biased gerrymandering of political districts, and the notion that corporations are people and should be allowed to dump however much money they want into the political system.
Is Greed a sin?
>>69054260
People never read the bible, since most people use god for gibs me that and by that they mean eternal life and forgiveness. Lets face it, bible is too boring even to think about it, now we have games like sheep simulator and even better things, there is literally no reason to believe in some primitive stories unless you really had Christian upbringing.
>>69054156
> Nevertheless, the wrong-headed claim of three-dimensional encoding continues to be touted by believers in the Turin Shroud’s authenticity as one of the most significant pieces of evidence for its origin.
Then why does no other image do that?
you were lucky enough to not have your head filled with poison as a child and now you think you missed out?
>>69040473
Watch any YouTube video from dan mohler
>>69054476
Before all else, be honest with yourself.
Try wandering in with the flock. It's not perfect by a long shot, but maybe it's better than being lost. Your decision.
>>69054493
Just thought you were referring to something more specific.
>>69054156
http://shroud2000.com/ArticlesPapers/Article-DebateRagesOn.html
Pray to God and believe in the resurrection and in Jesus's sacrifice.
"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
>>69054569
>Slovenia
>being able to read
Good one.
>Lets face it, bible is too boring even to think about i
People have found it interesting for the last 2000 years.
>>69040473
You may be stupid now, but you are headed down an equally or more stupid path. Either way stupidity is in your future
>>69054614
The author of the article demonstrates on his own how such a result might be replicated - it is a problem manufactured by the three-dimensional encoders, and not by the Shroud itself. It is immaterial, which is why Eric Jumper (the member of the STURP team who scanned the images and dealt with them in the first place) discounted them.
Y so skurred of being wrong? A faith-based religion shouldn't even need evidence - faith should win out over any research.
Maybe you aren't so faithful after all~
>>69053837
And you have yet to prove that there were any significant variations between the Greke and the Hebrew, aside from occasional name substitutions. You're just an obstinate retard too lazy to read conflicting views.
>>69040473
Read Kierkegaard
http://www.ldolphin.org/Provocations.pdf
>>69055131
>“As I said, an ordinary photographic negative does not reproduce three-dimensional information. The image on the Shroud contains this information, which is codified in a series of nuances. In other words, what we have before us is an image formed through a three-dimensional process, which cannot yet be explained and simulated in practice in order to obtain replica images of the Shroud. The difference in tonality between the light and dark elements of the image is so low that the eye is only able to perceive the general features of a human face, but the details are not easy to make out. In fact the light distribution on the face depicted in the image is exactly the opposite to what we perceive in reality, with protruding elements appearing darker than the hollows of the face. The inversion process presents the face of a man from a real-life perspective.”
The information is within the shroud itself.
http://www.lastampa.it/2015/03/19/vaticaninsider/eng/inquiries-and-interviews/the-d-information-in-the-image-on-the-shroud-of-turin-xAwCWQVAO1okekQY2ZQLKO/pagina.html
>>69054931
>People have found it interesting for the last 2000 years.
Group psychosis with childhood beginnings. Christianity is less exciting as Miley Cyrus to younger people or you random dumb Disney show. Kids might find bible exciting after countless days of brainwashing done by their parents and bible channels, but once your modern child find a game like Skyrim or explores anything at all in modern world, then it's over with this bible shit. Christianity has been dead in USA for very long anyway, it's only the showbiz & countless bastard Christian cults and Jewish tricks that keeps Christianity in business as cash cow. Jesus is literally a whore boy that's been raped by Mormons, Scientology, Protestantism and every other cult Jewish-Christian offspring out there, especially megachurch nonsense showbiz. Americans didn't even read the bible when they were living like Amish, maybe pocket version.
>>69040473
How can a /r9k/-tier autist like me join in communion?
I can go to church and talk to people without sperging too much but forming actual relationships is like really hard to me
>>69052684
then just be Buddhist or something. all of the purpose, none of the bullshit.
Hey Anon, this might help, Tom Campbell IMO mixes science and the esoteric very nicely, may be what you are looking for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_RwcGzGurc
>>69055867
In a Roman Catholic church, then just grab your shoulder with both hands to show that you are not a Confirmed Catholic, and then you just get a blessing.
>>69042842
>1. Jesus died on the cross.
Can anyone link me some good info on this? I'm having a hard time finding "good enough" non-biblical sources.
Since there's some Christians in the thread I thought I'd ask something. I've been very fascinated by the story and writings of Emanuel Swedenborg and was wondering what /pol/ thought of him?
>>69056535
>Sweden
>borg
>>69055644
Do you sniff glue? Serious question.
>>69055644
As if you actually know anything about america other than what the state TV tells you.
Have you ever found Miley Cyrus exiting? And do you honestly think publishers of any kind aren't capable of "brainwashing" people, as you call it, into liking a song, buying a game?
Why do you think you hear the same shitty songs over and over again and hear about the same games over and over again, even though there is an insane amount of music and games out there, most of it far superior to what you get forcefed?
Also, using your theory, how do you explain kids not taking drugs?
>>69040473
Have you considered a lobotomy?
>>69056522
Off the top of my head, I can give you one or two.
Josephus- Antiquities 18.3.3
Tacitus - Annals 15:44
If you want to use the Bible, the Gospels give 4 separate accounts written from different perspective by either eye witnesses or disciples of eye witnesses.
>>69051601
>(messenger/prophet)
He is not any of that, he is literally the son of God.
>>69040473
I was an atheist my whole life (35 years). I thought Christianity was utterly ridiculous and absurd, and even in moments of weakness when I was open to the existence of God, my credulity just could not be strained that far. I took pride in my rationality, studied philosophy for many years, and obtained a degree in physics.
Then one day I found myself in a deep abyss of despair from which there was no escape. I prayed and I was saved, which for me was a miracle. Not the kind I can hold up to others as objective proof for the existence of God. There can't be any objective proof. You can only find and know Jesus subjectively. God transcends our capacity for rational thought. Jesus is God in a form we can relate to as human beings.
If you're looking for Jesus, sooner or later you will find that He was always there. Hopefully it doesn't have to wait until your darkest hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4z8Y-NpW1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuVsY96vAfw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL-0-lxv40M
>>69056513
I meant communion in the "living with your church brothers" sense
