"Anon, gun control works. Look at Australia!" What's your response?
>>69023244
Australia doesn't have sixty million niggers.
>>69024230
holy shit do we have sixty million miggers, brandon?
>>69024230
Good point my friend.
>>69023244
sydney siege
>>69023244
Look at Mexico!
>>69024578
They kill each other with American guns. Not a good example to bring up.
>>69023244
The murder rate hasn't decreased.
"Anon, closing the borders works. Look at Australia!" What's your response?
>>69024376
Closer to 50 million, assuming the black population is 16%.
It's smaller if you don't include hispanic blacks.
>>69023244
Isn't Australia evidence to the contrary?
there's plenty of gun related violence in Australia just no mass shootings for a while. probably because we have like 1/20 the population.
>>69023244
after making a thread on Oakland sideshows yesyerday, I now indestand why white Americans really must have guns.
I hope all of oakland is purged someday, although that will require an army tier show of force to end those feral lawless scum living there
>>69024664
Actually, they frequently use weapons stolen from military depots in Mexico and other countries.
>>69024782
All nonwhite gang violence, I assume.
And I was wrong, it's more like 40-50 million niggers in the US.
>>69024578
This. Australia is an island with nothing but water around it. America has the cartel flooding guns/drugs/Mexicans into our country every day. Would you rather only THEY have the guns?
>>69023244
Why dont you try to find the source of gun crime rather than banning guns which encourages more illegal gun crime due to the vulnerability of the public at hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoFKskvSq4
Come and take em
Just tell them to look at Brazil, guns are banned and yet we have the most violent cities in the world.
Abandoning your rights to prevent sporadic, rare tragedies isn't a victory - it's a compromise.
Removing all of America's pools will reduce child drownings. Banning cars will reduce automobile deaths. Banning trans-fats will reduce heart attacks.
Of course it 'works', but at what cost? Stepping society further and further into a protective bubble where the individual is disempowered and big pappa government takes care of everything.
That structure can't last forever. And when it fails, you're gonna need to fight, to survive, to hunt. You can't uninvent guns, and the people whose governments didn't capitulate to fear will be the people who run shit.
>>69023244
If you look at the gun violence statistics on the fbi website, you'll see why gun control works for australia. It's also far easier to do this on an island than it is on an actual land mass and does nothing to account for the replacement of gun violence with violent stabbings and women getting raped because weaklings can't properly defend themselves against strong criminals.
Just look at britain, You might make jokes that australia is a penal colony but the Brits have banned all weapons and import criminals.
>>69023244
Port Arthur was DEFINITELY an inside job.
>>69025007
What's the gun on the second row, third column called?
>>69023244
My response is gun control has shit to do with it, look at Switzerland.
Atleast not in the sense people think. Switzerland has gun control. Keep in mind gun control actually isn't just banning guns like cucks want. As in, the guns aren't just handed out to anyone, but only people who serve in the military and people who apply for a gun who undergo a background check will be eligible.
If you've never committed a violent crime and are mentally sound, you will be able to get a gun. Certain ethnicities are excluded from obtaining a firearm ever, such as balkan countries (especially turks) and some african countries (most).
It's working out here. Low gun homicide rates, some of the lowest worldwide (unless you look at a retarded statistic that includes suicides, which is a different issue)
I don't mean to say that we do well in that regard only because of our gun laws though. There's a lot of other issues that encourage gun homcide that don't have shit to do with guns, such as
>religious radicalism being tolerated
>ghettos being formed and tolerated
>general cultural things (spics, niggers and balkans are fucking savages)
And the big issue in the US
>behaviour-altering medication being easily accessible and widespread
Seriously. When I was in the US, you could get many different kinds of anti-depressants with little to no effort right next to a place where you can buy guns and all of those things were advertised for on TV. What the fuck is wrong with you and putting yourselves, kids, dogs on performance-increasing medicine, downers, and anti-depressants. No wonder you shoot shit up.
>Look at Australia!" What's your response?
Border enforcement works.
>>69024230
First post usually always best post.
>>69025670
It's a fucking 1911
I want a gun. I don't care if people end up shooting eachother, who gives a shit? I'd like to have a gun. Probably wouldn't end up using it outside of practice, but I still want it.
>>69025670
desert eaqgle
>>69023244
but.. that there just looks like a shit load of normal hunting rifles to me. When you say guns I think hand guns. We really sort of don't count shotguns and rifles as "guns" here, as they are tools.
>>69023244
The gun buyback only successfully took away 68% of Australia's guns. With a firearm to civilian ratio of nearly 2:1, and guns being so ingrained into the culture of America, this will never, EVER work here. America will have a Civil War before it loses the 2nd amendment.
>>69025670
deagle brand deagle
>>69023244
Shouldn't have rebelled, mate.
>>69025697
>Certain ethnicities are excluded from obtaining a firearm ever
How the fuck does this go on without SJWs screaming about this into the media?
>>69024952
>mexico
>smuggling guns to the us
all the guns the cartel got are yours
>>69026238
Because deep down they know niggers shouldn't have guns
>>69024230
sheiiit
according to kikepedia, USA has 111,927,986 non-whites
how the shit did that happnen?
>>69026489
but you know that's retarded because they'll get it illegally, like they all do?
tyrone didn't got his uzi from gun-free chicago
>>69023244
>Emu war
>>69026238
It's not common knowledge because libturds here just oppose guns because it's the cool american politics thing to do. They don't actually know much about gun laws here or about wether guns are an issue.
It doesn't come up often anyways here. The last time was a few months ago I saw a mother cry for a ban on guns (no further specifications) because her son shot herself. This is something that often comes up, Swiss suicide rates are pretty high and guns are often used for it.
I don't think that really has shit to do with it though. Since there's many guns here, the gun is usually first choice of suicide option because it's easy, fast and you're pretty guaranteed to die.
We have traintracks all over the country and it's also a popular suicide option so I don't know what it would change other than train schedules getting fucked, to put it bluntly.
If you're interested in a source
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20081148/index.html#a12
no english version but basically says
>Owning, selling, trading, buying of weapons, munitions, weapon parts etc are principally forbidden for citizens of the following countries
>Serbia, Bosnia, Albanians/Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka (lol), Algeria, Albania
there used to be more african countries on this but I guess they relieved it a little because we don't really have many africans here anyways.
This doesn't mean other foreigners may buy guns as easily as swiss citizens by the way, it's still pretty hard from what I've heard from non-swiss acquintances. It's just that these may not have a gun, period.
>>69023244
You could take away every weapon in the world and cover every human in bulletproof bubble wrap, and people would still find away to hurt each other. Australia and there shitposting is the perfect example of this. One of the greatest forms of catharsis in this world is inflicting suffering upon others, and it is in our nature to crazy such a release.
>>69024574
The rarity of such sieges is evidence that gun control is working. Terrorists have been resorting to knives and doing almost no damage.
>>69024664
Suicide rate has gone done massively. This alone is justification for John Howard's initiative.
>>69024782
The point is that the violence has gone down. This is evidence that removing guns from circulation makes a society safer.
>>69024952
If you use serious enforcement, then people will stop circulating the guns so freely. In the US now, high-school punks can get guns incredibly easily. Apply serious penalties and fun circulation will diminish massively. Use a carrot-and-stick approach -- pay people money to return illegal guns, just like Howard did.
>>69025697
This doesn't address what's happened in Australia. Gun control has worked there.
Jim Jeffries gets it right. The only good argument for letting guns circulate is "I like muh guns." It's like letting people smoke. Does no obvious good, but is an expression of freedom to be a numbnuts, if so desired.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0
>>69024952
Cartels don't smuggle guns into the US because there are already so many guns so easily available here. Mind you if we tried to ban guns they could easily start smuggling them in.
>>69027415
I have always been suspicious of opposing guns to reduce suicide. Pretty much every other means of committing suicide is far worse.
>>69024664
>They kill each other with American guns.
How do they get guns if they are illegal?
>>69023244
this isn't Australia fuck off faget. also shall not be impinged! akm master race
>>69025269
Only because of that video footage shortly after?
>>69027516
That chart plots gun deaths, I'm guessing it includes suicides and accidents, which are completely irrelevant from gun homicide.
What about overall homicide rates after Australia banned guns? What about other crimes like assault and burglary?
>>69023244
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED YOU COMMIE FAGGOT
>>69023244
Look indeed. What a fucking mess.
>>69025670
Famas.
>>69025697
Well, in fact you can buy bolt action rifles (including ex-military) and shotguns without any authorization.
We only have gun "control" (just a swiss passport and not have done major crimes) for semi-auto rifles and handguns. You can buy weapons on the internet and have a lot of amos at home.
But this gun control has been adopted in 2008 or something like that because of the EU. Before their was no control.
>>69026669
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965
One terrible vote is all it takes to have your nation get blacked.
>>69023244
no it didn't
>>69027516
>gun deaths
lmao, probably even includes suicide.
>Suicide rate has gone done massively. This alone is justification for John Howard's initiative.
Fuck that. People shouldn't be defenseless just because some chucklefuck wants to kill himself
"I believe in gun rights but come on, an AK is a little excessive." What is your response?
>>69025670
It's a pee two fiddy
>>69023244
It also "works" for Japan, because they have only sea borders.
So there are two ways.
1. Build a moat.
2. Allow guns.
>>69027873
Deaths are deaths, dude! If you reduce gun deaths in a society, then you're making society safer. The suicide rate has gone down too. And so has the rate of other crimes. Homicide rates have gone down too (the ABS website is the place to find such info: http://www.abs.gov.au/.
The Australian case is one where US gun advocates don't have much room to argue. It's obviously worked.
>>69028277
Excessive in what regard? Do you even know what distinguishes it from other rifles?
>>69024692
Did australia ever have a border?
>>69027516
>Gun control has worked there.
And other countries have lax gun laws with less crime.
The conclusion to pull here that the guns aren't the problem, it's the circumstances they're in.
>>69027966
Yeah I honestly forgot about that. I even bought an old service rifle this year and found it neat. It just kind of further goes to show that gun laws have little bearing on violent crime committed.
>>69028051
Outdated statistics. Since then, those crimes have gone down considerably. You need 2015/16 stats for the whole period since Howard's laws were introduced. And on /pol/, you only ever see gun advocates using these outdated Australian stats. Cherry picking and statistical bias, I'm afraid.
>>69028401
>Deaths are deaths, dude! If you reduce gun deaths in a society, then you're making society safer.
Not if non gun deaths go up, which is exactly what happened.
And yes, all crime rates have dropped, including murder (a little bit). But, slower than the drops in rates for the same crimes in america despite american gun laws only becoming more lax.
>>69028557
What you are observing is the long term trend of violent crime decreasing globally, including in america. The point of the charts that I showed is that banning firearms results in an immediate spike in crime, which is undesirable.
>>69023244
no niggers
>>69028683
Well, I say global, but I mean in the western world.
>>69028013
thats almost the collective population of Russia or Germany and France
>>69028581
They've gone down. You need to work with updated statistics on this. The Australian Bureau of Statistics is your friend. Easy to use and lots of great information is readily searchable. Overall homocides and gun deaths have gone down in Australia.
I'd be interested to see a table for the comparative drops in crime rates between counties. Haven't seen that info before.
>>69028401
Crime rates were trending down long b4 gun ban
>>69024230
SIXTY NIGGERS?!?!
>>69023244
History always repeats itself, and history shows that governments eventually become more and more tyrannical over time. People have to rise up and clean house occasionally, and the 2nd is the means to this end.
Australian citizens are now at the complete mercy of their government, and in the next few years (or decades), they very well may have wished they still had their guns.
>>69028821
Crimes rates are lower now because of the same reasons they've dropped in most industrialized nations. When strict gun control was implemented in Australia the trend was stagnated and in some cases reversed for almost a decade.
>>69027415
Good stuff, I appreciate the information.
>>69028906
True, but they've continued moving down and at an increased rate. This is evidence of the success of Howard's measures.
I'm a shooter myself and from Australia, but am honestly convinced that Jim Jeffries is right. The empirical evidence supports the idea that Howard's policies works; restricting gun access makes society safer. Having less illegal guns in circulation helps a lot. Reducing ease of handgun access (having the guns locked in pistol club safes) helps reduce crime and suicide (especially spontaneous crimes/suicides). The only real argument against Howard's policies is "I like muh guns." And I do -- it's fun shooting rabbits and ducks and then eating them after. But I accept that they're super dangerous and it's better for society if their circulation is significantly restricted. I don't think there's any valid argument against this based on current evidence, though I'm very open minded and willing to listen to different interpretations of the Australian situation.
>>69028189
Defenceless against what? If guns are illegal, people will still be able to get guns, but they won't go through with the risk of being caught with them by attacking the average Joe
>>69023244
"Gun control didn't work in Australia"
>>69029388
>Defenceless against what?
Home intruders, for one thing. Those increased in frequency enormously after the australian gun ban. But also anyone who's bigger, strong, has an improvised weapon or a real weapon or a friend who decides to fuck with you.
Additionally, in america (and probably most everywhere), the vast majority of gun crime is committed with guns that are already illegally obtained, so obviously the fear of legal retribution for that crime isn't an effective deterrent against the actual assault.
>>69029532
Old graphic with outdated stats (and too many tin hats). If updated, you'll see these objections / tables no longer apply.
>>69029712
>If updated, you'll see these objections / tables no longer apply.
To bad this is objectively false.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Australia
Trends have gone back to what they were before the gun ban which still shows the gun ban did dick all except waste an assload of money and strip citizens of their rights
>>69029712
More recent decreases in violent crime match those in other countries with no change or loosening of gun control. All Howard accomplished was waste money, drive millions of guns to the black market, and stagnate the decrease in violent crime that other countries enjoyed during the same period. All because of one single crime.
What's really funny though, is how he seems to think that a firearm is the best weapon for a mass killing, and not a bomb.
>>69023244
>howtokillafudd.jpeg
>>69024664
The use actual assault rifles. Not the semiautomatics commonly found here, i.e. they use guns already banned outside the military in the US.
>>69030109
I cited the latest ABS statistics to support the point that most crimes, including homicide, are going down with less guns in circulation. You'll have to be specific about what the wikipedia link shows. I did see that the page linked to this article, which was fairly informative about misuse of stats:
Faking waves: how the NRA and pro-gun Americans abuse Australian crime stats
https://theconversation.com/faking-waves-how-the-nra-and-pro-gun-americans-abuse-australian-crime-stats-11678
>>69030244
I'd like to see evidence comparing the falling rates in crime across different Western countries. It'd be genuinely interesting to see. To me, it looks as though the gun policies produced a tangible change in Australia -- just look at the full before and after statistics. I don't know of any argument that something changed around the world in about 1996 that produced a general world-wide drop in crime.
The short answer to OP's question is that gun advocates in the US don't have a good answer on Australia. You have to concede that it worked and then maybe say Australia is just different because of the kangaroos and dropbears.
>>69029698
>or a friend who decides to fuck with you
Fucking hell Billy! I can't believe you won't tell me how you did that magic trick. That's it I'd better kill you with my guns, that'll learn ya
>obviously the fear of legal retribution for that crime isn't an effective deterrent against the actual assault.
Nah I was trying to say that if they have to go through the trouble of the black market, your business plan obviously isn't robbing the average Joe at gunpoint
>>69023244
Violent crime in Australia has risen significantly since 1996.
>>69024376
HI parker
>>69023244
>>69024230
>tfw Australia was essentially inmate island and is still doing ok because less niggers
>>69023244
Why are the lebbos still shooting up western Sydney?
>>69028401
because murderers take their victims bodies and dump them into barrels of acid out in the Outback
Go look at the Northern Territories amount of missing persons list for each year. Half of those people are dead and the police can't prove shit.
>>69030851
Please don't tell lies. This is the latest from the Australian Institute of Criminology. The changes would be even more dramatic if the latest ABS stats were incorporated.
Seriously, shame on you for lying on an anonymous image board, anon!
>>69031131
Probably the best point made in this thread. Everyone is in Snowtown.
>>69025670
Walter pp7.
>>69026198
Maybe you should've treated us like human beings.
Oh wait, I'm sorry, we were just there to mine the resources weren't we?
>>69023244
For a country full of people who don't have guns, Australians sure are a murderous bunch of motherfuckers.
Gun control is stupid. It's the culture that has an impact on violent crime, not the guns.
>>69030726
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/1tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1994-2013.xls
As you can see, violent crime in america has been going down at a steady rate since the mid 90s. Over the ten year period after strict gun control was introduced in australia, violent crime rates did not decrease, and in some cases went up.
>>69030771
>Fucking hell Billy! I can't believe you won't tell me how you did that magic trick. That's it I'd better kill you with my guns, that'll learn ya
No, you idiot, I mean the person attacking you has a friend. As in, your outnumbered, and thus would have a much more difficult time defending yourself unarmed?
>Nah I was trying to say that if they have to go through the trouble of the black market, your business plan obviously isn't robbing the average Joe at gunpoint
Except most criminals already get their firearms through the black market, including those that rob the average joe at gun point.
>>69031160
All that shows is a slight decline in robbery rates from the mid 2000s onward. And while he was wrong about violent crime going up in general since 96, this doesn't exactly prove your point, especially compared with the changes other countries were seeing over the same time period.
>>69031433
From 1996 until now, violent crime rates in Australia went down:
http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/vicViolentCol.html
This is something factual and important for your argument. I'd be interested to see a comparison between the US and Australia on the rates on decline. Surely someone has done this somewhere. Anyone got an easy summary, since I can't be fucked doing the analysis myself?
>>69027730
Before the Golden Gate bridge put the nets up they were average like 20 suicides a year, since the 60s. Upon impact with the water the surface tension breaks, shattering their feet, ankles, and legs like chalk. Water rushes into their colon with enormous force, perforating the soft tissue inside. If death is not immediate, a swift but painful death is coming soon. Liberals are mostly rallied against gun suicides in particular because it makes such a mess, which makes it emotionally charged.
>>69023244
Australian here. It DIDNT work.
>>69027516
>The rarity of such sieges is evidence that gun control is working. Terrorists have been resorting to knives and doing almost no damage.
Wrong. We had ZERO (let me say that again: ZERO) mass shootings between 1788 and 1995. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
>Suicide rate has gone done massively. This alone is justification for John Howard's initiative.
WRONG. The suicide rate has INCREASED, but the preferred method has changed from guns to hanging and drugs.
>The point is that the violence has gone down. This is evidence that removing guns from circulation makes a society safer.
WRONG. There are weekly shootings in Sydney, but they never make the national news. Gang crime is increasing, and crime by ethnic minorities is skyrocketing, but again, both of those fail to make the news.
>If you use serious enforcement, then people will stop circulating the guns so freely.
So how come I can pay a couple of grand and buy an illegal full-auto AK if I have the right contacts here still?
Consider full-auto weapons were illegal BEFORE Howard's gun ban.
>This doesn't address what's happened in Australia. Gun control has worked there.
IT DID NOT.
Australia is having an increase in crime, and has had one since the gun ban in 1997. Gun crime HAS gone down, yet what anti-gunners will not tell you is that it was dropping BEFORE the ban.
Link: http://www.ssaa.org.au/ilasep98.html
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime/assault.html
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]/0/44e7066a7d173a95ca256bdc0012241f?OpenDocument
http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/27/how-has-heightened-gun-control-worked-in
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-18/opinion/chi-the-failure-of-gun-control-in-australia-20130118_1_gun-control-mandatory-gun-gun-deaths
http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/15/gun-violence-australia-sydney_n_6329158.html
>>69029333
>but they've continued moving down and at an increased rate. This is evidence of the success of Howard's measures.
No it isn't. You're taking a classic correlation = causation fallacy and proclaiming it as evidence for your argument. How do you explains cities like Detroit and Chicago with absolutely draconian gun control laws that have the highest gun murder rates in the country? Could it be that criminals don't care about the law?
>>69031605
Dig further into the stats and you'll see everything has gone down except sexual violence (which may be explained by higher rates or reporting or else by Australian men becoming increasingly nasty rapists). The stats go back to 1993, so are perfect for this discussion. http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html
Again, good tables comparing rates of change between countries would be helpful here.
>>69028401
Who gives a shit about suicide? Gun control is supposed to stop people from harming others. I give zero tucks if they want to harm themselves.
>>69023244
"You mean all those laws that basically made people felons overnight and had no affect on the overall crime rate?"
>>69032017
I thought suicide rates in Australia had declined since the gun buy back. Got a better source?
http://www.conversationsmatter.com.au/supportinginformation/about-suicide
Violence has definitely gone done. See the stats I cited above from the ABS. You need to refute with figure and sources, not just with assertions.
>>69028557
>>69029712
>>69030726
>>69031160
>>69031232
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH76VoI_hsw
http://gunsnfreedom.com/0405-australian-gangs-making-diy-machine-guns-despite-ban-on-assault-weapons/2568
http://1000endonevideo.ru/video/news-politics/-OY3WfG5Urs/australia-gun-smuggling-a-big-problem-since-gun-ban.html
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/jeweller-angelos-koots-admits-to-making-submachine-guns-at-his-seven-hills-home-and-supplying-them-to-bikie-groups/story-fni0cx12-1226760983916?nk=c1720804438b0b9f14802266b41dd806
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/06/16/australian-police-10-firearms-seized-homemade/
So how many people are killed by handguns in Australia each year? This handy article in The Age (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/02/1072908906612.html), tells us that the number in 2001 was 49.
This represents a drop since tough new restrictions were put in place in 1996, from a 1991 figure of 29.
No, hang on - isn't 49 more than 29? I could've sworn...
AND YET A HANDGUN LICENSE IS THE HARDEST ONE TO GET IN AUSTRALIA!
"handgun deaths increased from 29 in 1991 to 49 in 2001"
...nicely done.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/apex-gang-melbourne-inside-the-dandenong-group-blamed-for-moomba-violence/news-story/bad7e50883adf8a7a43e935bde3becaf?nk=c0a2be3b7bc5dba998a31db7dbf7c5d4-1457931709
>>69031784
I love how you deliberately fail to show the pre-gun-ban stats, which were also (*drumroll please*) going down...
>>69032039
>John howard claimed we have not had a mass shooting in Australia since port arthur
We have had FOUR since.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monash_University_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Hectorville_siege
The hunt family murders
http://www.baka.com.au/nsw/hunt-family-murders-witness-describes-final-night-at-family-home-20151006-gk2vo5.html
The recent sydney seige
http://www.baka.com.au/nsw/sydney-siege-gunman-man-monis-was-a-radicialised-terrorist-us-expert-says-20150824-gj6wlm.html
Now time for some bonus points. Last week in victoria we've had 15 shootings, source below. We also had ANOTHER seige in sydney in the last week.
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/03/12/03/33/vic-records-15-shootings-in-eight-days
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-07/sydney-ingleburn-gunman-dead-in-siege-after-fatal-shooting/7226058
This is the first lie they push about our country. That the violence stopped. It did not stop, it has been brutally supressed due to gag and control orders on our media.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/australian-court-gagging-order-abuse-legal-process
>>69023244
>not having guns
surefire sign of a cucked nation
>>69029333
>True, but they've continued moving down and at an increased rate.
No they've continued to move down at almost exactly the same rate
>>69032459
Link bomb ahoy!!! You've made some false assertions that are refuted by the latest Australian Bureau of Statistics info. Can you interpret all those links?
You're right that there was a brief increase in gun crime after the gun buyback, but you leave out the even more important detail that there has been a significant decrease since then, resulting overall in a large decrease. It's not cool to cherry pick stats.
>>69029532
rip dundee
Port Arthur was such an obvious false flag
>Tasmanian politician like a week before the shooting says if you don't pass his anti-gun law, there's going to be a mass shooting in Tasmania
>literal retard managed to headshot 30+ people
>no reliable witnesses
>accused was forced into admitting guilt by his lawyer
>never investigated again by the government
>>69032830
nah Northern Territory rarely enforces any gun control laws up there.
>>69032395
>>69032709
>https://www.lifeline.org.au/About-Lifeline/Media-Centre/Suicide-Statistics-in-Australia
"Deaths by suicide have reached a 10-year peak."
https://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/544651/SuicideQLD-WEB.pdf
Why do retards like you continue to shill this nogunz bullshit?
Are you paid by bloomberg or do you just like having your head up your ass?
>>69032525
Source?
>>69032038
There's always going to be the possibility of the correlation =/= causation objection when you're dealing with demographic statistics. They don't give you the cause. They only give you correlations. It's up to us to interpret them plausibly. This objection doesn't work when dealing with large-scale population statistics. It only results in the rejection of potentially useful empirical information.
>>69032064
I give a shit about suicide. And homicide. And crime in society. I'd prefer less of all of them. Don't know about you, though.
>>69032845
Don't forget the au.gov confiscated all his inherited money so he could not even afford a proper lawyer!
>>69025670
AR15
>>69033010
>I give a shit about suicide. And homicide. And crime in society. I'd prefer less of all of them. Don't know about you, though.
No you don't. Then again, it's not homicide or crime when the government does it, right? right?
>>69031784
Some of them, a little bit. And only in the last 10 years, not when gun control was implemented. As I've said, multiple times.
Compare the chart I linked you with this one you've linked me. Mine shows american violent crime rates dropping steadily every single year since 93. It even shows the gross number of violent crimes decreasing every year despite a rising population. Your chart shows violent crime in general remaining stagnant until the mid 2000s, with murder being stagnant from 96-2003, robbery dramatically increasing until falling back to the 96 levels in 2008, and even kidnapping being increased (which has still not fallen back to 96 levels)
Now, these are also gross stats, not per capita, but the population increased by less than 10% from 96 to 04, which would not account for the observed rise in crime rates
>>69024664
Also, the armed robbery and assault rates went up.
I'm having a plate of guns for lunch.
>>69032949
The suicide rates now are lower than they were in 1996 when the gun buyback started:
1996: 21.5 per 100,000
2009: 14.9 per 100,000
[latest available stats seem to be for 2010, which are 11.0 per 100,000]
http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2011-2012/Suicide#_Toc299625631
See also http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Products/3309.0~2010~Chapter~Suicide+in+Australia
>>69032949
Also (and this clears things up nicely, I think):
"Suicide rates for both males and females have generally decreased since the mid-90s with the overall suicide rate decreasing by 23% between 1999 and 2009. Suicide rates for males peaked in 1997 at 23.6 per 100,000 but have steadily decreased since then and stood at 14.9 per 100 000 in 2009. Female rates reached a high of 6.2 per 100 000 in 1997. Rates declined after that and was 4.5 per 100 000 in 2009."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Australia
>>69023244
After outlawing guns crime rates skyrocketed. Especially gun crimes. It's only now that these rates are receding due to better socioeconomic plans that people point out Australia.
>>69033476
Cherry picking and statistical bias, I'm afraid.
>>69033542
So the suicide rate dropped most dramatically when firearms were easy to get, and the rate of fall has slowed with a lack of firearms?
Colour me surprised, guns have a beneficial effect of the suicide rate.
>>69030726
>I cited the latest ABS statistics to support the point that most crimes, including homicide, are going down
>I don't know what trends over time are
Yeah I know
>nogunz can suck it
pew pew
>>69025075
underrated post
>>69032709
>detail that there has been a significant decrease since then
You mean the return to the rates that existed years before the buyback?
Dumbass
>>69025022
small handguns are not banned in brazil. the ones used by niggers in the slums are, tho.
Gun control did nothing.
Look at the numbers.
>implying the improvement of living standards isn't the reason for the steady decrease in crime
Yeah, sure, your gun laws that only took guns away from law abiding people did it. Makes sense.
>>69023244
We have a fuck tonne of shootings, stabbing someone and beatings. And our population is 24 million and our neighbour isn't Mexico.
>>69033476
>>69033542
And it is CLEARLY cherrypicking and statistical bias, because 1996 is the date the gun "ban" started. You have deliberately ignored data before the buyback.
http://www.mindframe-media.info/for-media/reporting-suicide/facts-and-stats
>Suicide rates in Australia peaked in 1963 (17.5 per 100,000), declined to 11.3 per 100,000 in 1984, and climbed to 14.6 in 1997.
So to sum up, people have a lower risk of suicide, when idiots like yourself are kept far far away from other people's firearms.
>>69029333
You are not from Australia. You are a libtard American.
>People from Australia keep their pistols in their homes, not at 'pistol club safes'.
>Whenever a gun ban in implemented people get above market prices for their guns then go and buy new guns. There are MORE guns owned by legal shooters now than in 1996.
>If you own enough property say 50acres+ you can still own semi-auto centerfire guns, including your dreaded AR's and AK's.
>Career criminals & terrorists can still get handguns & longarms relatively easily.
>If you have certain .gov connections you can still get all sorts of guns.
Australian gun control dose relatively little in practice, if someone wants to go on a mass shooting nothing could stop them. They can MAKE a gun to do that with pdf files from the internet. What gun control dose is make idiots feel secure in an intrinsically insecure multiracial society.
>>69024376
>16%
its at 17% now
>>69033542
>cherrypicking years and not using decades long trends
>>69027415
do you think the new EU semi auto bans will have any effect on us?
>>69033708
Explain what you mean by cherry picking? I just went to the most raw government statistics available on suicide rates.
>So the suicide rate dropped most dramatically when firearms were easy to get, and the rate of fall has slowed with a lack of firearms?
I think you might have misread. The rate was going up. Then there was the gun buyback and since then it's mostly been going down and right now is much less than it was before the gun buyback.
>>69033958
Evidence? Rates of violent crime now are way less than they were immediately before the gun buyback.
>>69034195
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/03/10/australian-police-seize-homemade-submachine-gun-drug-raid/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/08/05/bill-holmes-homemade-smg-others-spotted-australia/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/16/mp40-found-in-australia/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/21/potd-fp-45-liberator-found-australia/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/08/australian-police-arrest-homemade-pen-gun-supplier/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/04/australian-motorcycle-gang-diy-firearms-surface/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/12/02/51213/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/11/19/home-built-m11-submachine-guns-seized-australia/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/09/05/australian-man-jailed-building-selling-derringer-type-pistols/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/12/02/homemade-machine-pistols-seized-sweden/
>>69034195
You're a bogan, mate, who's madder than a cut snake and doesn't even know Don Bradman's test average.
>>69034195
Well spotted btw. I didnt catch his bullshit in that paragraph. Must be autism at the shit data he's using.
>>69031784
Do you think that any other factors could be in play regarding Australia's drop in violent crime since 1996?
You know like the availability of broadband internet to the masses and mainstream adoption video games? Perhaps those 2 things are keeping people occupied and off the streets?
>>69023244
>>69025128
>>69027516
>>69028189
>>69028401
>>69028821
>>69030726
>>69031160
>>A 2010 study on the effects of the firearm buybacks by Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi of The Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research at the University of Melbourne studied the data and concluded, "Despite the fact that several researchers using the same data have examined the impact of the NFA on firearm deaths, a consensus does not appear to have been reached. In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates."
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1465-7287.2009.00165.x/abstract;jsessionid=A42D70C89767B70D7E4FECF459DDE74D.f02t01
>>69024230
kek first post
>>69033010
>There's always going to be the possibility of the correlation =/= causation objection when you're dealing with demographic statistics
Okay, but what about my examples of gun control utterly failing to control gun crime in cities like Detroit and Chicago? How did the Paris shooters get guns in France with its tight gun control laws? My point should be obvious, gun control does absolutely nothing to deter a violent criminal from being a violent criminal. If a gun makes that task more efficient, he WILL get a gun, illegally or otherwise.
>>69034306
>Rates of violent crime now are way less than they were immediately before the gun buyback.
>I still failed highschool stats and don't know what trends are
There has already been a major peer reviewed study done on Australian gun control and absolutely zero connection on the short spike and then returning to old trends of decreasing crime of any kind and suicide was made.
So again
All the Australian buyback did was waste an assload of money and heavily restrict the rights of Australian citizens
>>69025670
Darude Sandstorm
>>69034693
Fair point. Other factors are certainly at work.
>>69034694
That study is done by a partisan thinktank and its conclusions don't hold up if you use the latest stats (which show a long-term trend to significantly less violent crime since the gun buyback).
>>69034306
>what you mean by cherry picking
See:
>>69034152
Suicide rate ROSE after the gun ban. Only thing that changed is the method.
>Rates of violent crime now are way less than they were immediately before the gun buyback.
Irrelevant. As >>69034263 said, try using multi-decade trends, not cherrypicked years.
Notice how the number of people killed by handguns is nearly DOUBLE what it was before the ban?
You're a well-prepared American shill, that's all.
>>69034306
>Explain what you mean by cherry picking?
There is no fucking way you have never heard the term "cherry picking". Specifically citing data that supports your argument and leaving out data which contradicts it, that is called cherry picking.
>>69023244
"Fuck Australia. Kill yourself, faggot."
>>69034933
>That study is done by a partisan thinktank and its conclusions don't hold up if you use the latest stats
It was actually thoroughly vetted and peer reviewed just cause you don't like the university of Melbourne doesn't make them wrong.
>if you add new data
You see the same trends that existed before the buyback.
The idea that Australian gun control did anything is damn near Religious dogma
>>69034785
I honestly don't understand Detroit or Chicago enough the explain shit there. It seems to me that in Australia, violent criminals are being forced to resort to knives instead of guns, with the result being less harm. Take for example that dumb 18yo wannabe terrorist in Melbourne who lunged at the police officers with a knife. In the US, I really don't know what to do about crime in blighted cities, other than to notice that the levels of gun ownership there are massive. They're so high that maybe it's not realistic to try to create a situation with less guns overall. I really don't know! As an Australian in the US, I have to say I feel more safe in Australia than I do in the US (where already I've been mugged at gunpoint by some teenage punks with an illegal gun). Sorry I can't answer your point better. Maybe you have a better explanation.
>>69034933
Ahhh yes, the old cry of "it's not impartial" when it doesn't fit your agenda, Mr. Steinberg.
>Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research at the University of Melbourne
Yeah, a government-funded University is DEFINITELY a "partisan think-tank if the man who pays your cheques signs off Bloomberg or Murdoch...
>>69032845
Australia's lawyer class was managing his life for him. His inheritance left to him by the batty old lady drew them too him like vultures.
Apparently his handlers brought him to a gunshop but he couldn't even insert a magazine into a firearm. They crucified that gunshop owner for testifying.
>>69035011
I know what the phrase means. I wanted to know how you were using it in this specific case.
>>69035442
>picks two data points
>doesn't understand how he's cherrypicking
Faggoy
>>69034933
you say that but show me the counter evidence?
>>muh latest statistics
you obviously have no idea what data analysis is if you think that a graph from the ABS proves anything, just like the morons who moan about the gender wage gap because of muh graph
>>69034975
It rose briefly but now is considerably less.
>>69034933
>>69035275
>>69035322
I'll take a look at that study. Honestly haven't seen it before.
>>69035310
>in Australia, violent criminals are being forced to resort to knives instead of guns, with the result being less harm
Wrong. Criminals here have plenty of guns.
>crime in blighted cities, other than to notice that the levels of gun ownership there are massive
Wrong again. Compared to places where people can own guns legally,the overall ownership rate is actually low, because law-abiding citizens dont own guns.
>As an Australian in the US
You're not. And if you were, you should shut the fuck up, because we sure as hell don't want you back.
>>69035651
Fuck you. Go suck Murdoch's shriveled warty old dick. Maybe he'll pat you on the head and tell you you shilled well today.
>>69035620
If you've got a graph of suicide rates in Australia over recent decades, I'd like to see it. Glancing through the tables in the parliament report on suicide before, it seemed that the rate has been consistently shifting. It went up through the 80s, got quite high in the 90s, and now is back down to below where it was in the 80s. Seems like a good trend. Again, if you have a good graphic of all this, please do share.
All this arguing is ignoring the obvious. Guns in the hands of citizens are there for ONE REASON ONLY. To protect against the government turning on its citizens.
Self defence, hunting, sport, all are great but mean jack shit. It doesn't matter if more guns means more suicides (which is debatable), or if more guns means more violent crime (which is also debatable).
They are there in case they are needed, and any negatives that can be attributed just have to be accepted. Accept the bad now to protect the greater good later.
Anybody that disagrees obviously has never studied world history and the genocides done by governments over and over... and if not genocide, then simple iron fisted dictatorial rule over its citizens like China, where if you speak out you get your ass thrown in jail or disappeared.
>>69035651
>Honestly haven't seen it before.
>a retarded antigunner insults a study which proves his stupid dogmatic viewpoint wrong and hasn't even read the report.
Color me surprised.
Daily reminder that antigunners are in the same political camp as climate change deniers
>>69034292
not him but no.
we get our gun laws mostly from needing an army to remain neutral and the idea of "every citizen is a soldier"
Banning semi-autos from the law via an EU vote would be an attack on our neutrality and sovereignty.
I mean the EU would still try since they are fucking cunts that need to just fucking die already.
But we would just ignore them
>>69036177
No, at least climate change deniers try to use logic and reason to back their argument. Gungrabbers are just retarded.
>>69035693
It's still true that wannabe terrorists in Australia have been using knives when if they had guns they would've done way more damage.
Gun ownership per person in the US is very. Didn't think that's a controversial statement.
I'm as Australian as the galahs and gang-gangs in my backyard in rural NSW where I grew up, thanks.
>>69035851
A happy Monday to you too, anon.
>>69036349
>continues to post clearly cherry picked graphs
Yeah nah you're a faggot with no intention on honest debate because honest debate on this subject has been beaten to death and the antigunners lost long ago.
>>69036349
>wannabe terrorists in Australia have been using knives
ONE wannabe jihadi used a knife. Others have used:
>an illegal pump-action shotgun
>a revolver
>smuggled AK-47's
And the last lot were in the process of cooking up explosives. As far as casualties go, guns are insignificant compared to what's out there. Why you could visit a Bunnings and come away with shit that you could kill hundreds with, if you were a big enough faggot.
TL;DR- stop bitching and moaning about guns because the local darkies scare you.
>>69036349
Welcome to /pol/, newfriend.
>>69035898
“whatever arguments might be made for the limitation or regulation of the private ownership of firearms, suicide patterns do not constitute one of them”
Page 36
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/10281754
>>69036593
>>69036349
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/06/25/study-using-guns-for-defense-leads-to-fewer-injuries
>Citing four separate studies between 1988-2004, the assessment from the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council says crime victims who use guns in self-defense have consistently lower injury rates than victims who use other strategies to protect themselves (other strategies include stalling, calling the police or using weapons such as knives or baseball bats).
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense
>Hemenway finds more reliable an annual federal government research project, called the National Crime Victimization Survey, which yields estimates in the neighborhood of 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Making various reasonable-sounding adjustments, other social scientists have suggested that perhaps a figure somewhere between 250,000 and 370,000 might be more accurate.
http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2012a/commsumm.nsf/b4a3962433b52fa787256e5f00670a71/5de089825c00843e872579b80079912d/$FILE/SenState0305AttachB.pdf
>Upon interviewing convicted felons, these researchers found that
>74% indicated that burglars avoided occupied dwellings, due to fears of being shot
>57% said that most criminals feared armed citizens more than the police
>40% of the felons had been deterred from committing a particular crime, because they believed that the potential victim was armed
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
http://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Armed-Resistance-to-Crime.pdf
http://libertyfirearmstraining.com/blog/2013/05/16/criminals-fear-armed-citizens-more-than-they-do-the-police/
Harvard study detailing how gun control is counter productive and a waste of valuable police resources
http://www.theacru.org/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/
>>69036744
I chuckled. Thanks for the graph.
>>69031351
STARTED FROM THE BOTTOM NOW WE HERE
>>69036798
>laughing at graphs presented in a non biased non fallacious and proper statistical manner that also disprove your position
>>69027516
No "mass shootings" but gun crime still happens here every single day.
I wish retarded American Redditors would stop thinking that Australia is some magical gun free utopia when in reality the answer is right here: >>69024230
>>69035917
Whats concerns me is the 2 tier ownership system thats been allowed to develop in Australia.
Large rich property owners can still own AR's but the average worker in renting a laborers cottage is only allowed a bolt action.
I think its a very ominous sign, I also know certain backgrounds in .gov can get you semi-auto long-arms without the 'property requirement'.
Basically rich and well connected people are keeping their guns. Peasants are getting slapped with all sorts of restrictions.
>This is actually happening.
I like guns.
>>69028277
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is so that the people can properly defend against foreign invaders, or domestic tyranny/harm.
It only makes sense to fire back with a rifle of your own rather than a handgun.
>>69023244
Private property is none of your business.
>>69037167
That was always the plan, anon. That is ALWAYS the plan of the rich and the powerful.
To them, ordinary people are just dirty peasants who got uppity and dont know their station.
>>69025165
That's not a kangaroo.
>>69037167
>Peasants are getting slapped with all sorts of restrictions.
Who else would the government want to disarm/put undue burden on owning arms?
>>69037264
If SHTF in Australia stay away from the large farm owning politicians.
THEY STILL HAVE THEIR AR15's
>>69034292
Impossible. And even if the gouvernement accept EU law it will be a referendum from the SVP/UDC or guns lobby.
And most of people are against EU law. Not only for the "muh guns" but because it is an attack against our sovereignty and our military defense.
>>69037429
And so will the smart plebs. The ones who hid them buried out in the scrub.
>>69023244
>>69023244
Laughter, generally.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/bikies-diy-arsenal-pistolpacking-western-sydney-a-handgun-hotspot/story-fni0cx12-1226955331948
>>69023244
Look at Brazil. The blue column is number of homicides with firearms before the gun ban, the red column is the number of homicides with firearms after the gun ban.
BTW, we have 60.000 homicides a year. But let me explain what is "homicide" here: If you kill one person, it's one homicide with one victim, if you kill 19 people, it's one homicide with 19 victims. But the government only counts the number of homicides, not the number of victims.
Australian violent crime rates didn't change after port arthur.
>>69039032
>The blue column is the *percentage of homicides with firearms before the gun ban
Australia's two main cities have had over 20 different gun crimes in the last two weeks between them.
Including two killed in a Sydney siege that lasted 7 hours, 2 others also shot but survived. Last week in the same city a drive by resulted in an innocent motorist being killed and plowing his car into pedestrians. Melbourne say another mafia related slaying with a gangland lawyer shot in broad daylight in a busy suburban shopping street.
Trust me, gun crime continues there. Although theres been a fair fre more knife killings too. Its just been a while since anything major happened worthy of making international mews.
>>69040475
>lawyer shot in broad daylight in a busy suburban shopping street.
Only one lawyer, not nearly enough of them.....
>>69025697
You don't need to go to the army in order to buy guns in Switzerland.
Stop spreading that myth.
>>69040620
At least he's not spreading the one about ammo....
>>69023244
Ausfags are useless with guns.
>>69036255
We will be affected.
Right now that socialist bitch went to the EU and talked with them about these laws, what she said after the meeting made me more afraid than before.
She told how it wouldn't affect people currently in the militia, which means that everyone else that owns semi auto rifles would get them confiscated, but the 200k soldiers that take their rifles home won't have to give away their guns.
They are pressuring every country to "compromise" in this issue, by allowing certain groups to own those guns but ban them for everyone else.
>>69040562
True that. I'm thinking things are looking like they might kick off again.
Australia had a few mass shootings/ spree killers in the 1980s and early 1990s. Hoddle St massacre, Milperra bikie shootout, Rooty Hill gunman, Queen St massacre, that shopping mall in Sydney (can't remember name starts with L), the German backpacker who shot all those locals in WA, the dude who drive his Mac truck into that Ayers Rock pub.
With Muslims having easy access to weapons, the Parramatta police station shooting attests to that, all those mafia freaks in Melbourne getting antsy, I fear were in for a big spike in gun crime.
>>69023244
Australian law is bullshit.
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/man-dies-after-nsw-break-and-enter/news-story/a9cab4bd6356f3af85ecdf16c44faeb6
Just today a man is being charged with murder for detaining a man who broke into his home, the criminal later died in custody.
Even if the criminal didn't die the man would have been charged with assault for detaining the criminal who broke into his home.
Australians have had the right to self defense taken from them.
Gun crime still occurs but only the criminals have guns and law abiding citizens have no means to defend themselves.
Since americans have the right to defend themselves it only make sense they should have a right to guns because the criminals have guns.
When I think of gun laws I think of women and the elderly having the ability to defend themselves from criminals.
In australia the elderly are expected to just be attacked. Only the police have the right to stop a criminal.
In australia your wives and daughters are expected to just submit to rapists and tell the police later after the rapist has already escaped.
People deserve the right to proactively defend themselves from criminals.
Police are only capable of reactive response to criminals. Allowing citizens the right to proactively respond to criminals through self defense laws is the best way to respond to crime.
Guns are the best tools for law abiding citizens to respond proactively to crime.
Guns give the weaker members of society the ability to respond to violent dangerous criminals in a way that they otherwise could not.
>>69041427
>With Muslims having easy access to weapons... mafia ... getting antsy, I fear were in for a big spike in gun crime.
So then Class C weapons will now be illegal too (except for the rich and connected cunts ofc)
Expel the scum and pollies when? Or are we to leave this desert for somewhere less retarded?
>>69041648
I'll defend Australia to the death. NT born and bred, grew up around firearms. Just happen to be working in Kiwiland atm.
Seeing you mentioned pollies, I'm voting for ALA this year. Unlikely to do anything other than upset central city fags.
>>69041998
Ones to vote for to get uncucked gun laws:
>One Nation
>Liberal Democrats
...neither of which have a real chance of running the show.
Fuck, if those ISIS cunts blew up Canberra and everyone in it they'd do the rest of us a favour.
>>69035917
>more guns means more suicides
It wouldn't if we had a right to euthanasia.
Most of the gun deaths in australia prior to the ban were elderly people killing themselves.
After the ban the government claimed the prevented gun deaths via statistics.
But those statistics didn't note that the majority of the gun deaths prevented were suicides and that violent crime related deaths actually went up.
>>69025670
It's called 'Murica faggot
>>69033876
How full of mud monkys are you?
>>69023244
Lies.
Also the crazies just switched to knives and fire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia
>>69028918
>>69042271
Agree. Although I hate muslims and their shitty culture if they actually blew up parliament while all our polies were inside I would actually celebrate because it would mean we finally have a change to get a decent government.
All our laws are written to cuck the average citizen. Our constitution was written for a penal colony. That's why there is so many restrictions on our freedoms and a complete lack of rights. The laws were written under the assumption that we are all criminals.
We literally have the laws of a prison. Our people are so stupid and brainwashed they think these restrictions keep them safe.
In australia when you suggest that people should have gun rights for self defense you ALWAYS get back the response "What? So we could be more like America?" and that is meant as a slur that should shut down the argument entirely, like some killer blow that being more like america, aka having personal freedoms and rights is the worst thing we could possibly strive for.
It's amazing how little people trust themselves, yet put their full trust into the government and police who only care for their own interests.
The assumption is always that there is two sides, the police and the criminals. But there is a huge majority in between who gets fucked over by both sides consistently. The people.
It takes a special kind of piece of shit to become a career criminal but it also takes a special type of cunt to become a cop.
Why should you trust a cop with a gun more than yourself?
I've never understood why violent crimes statistics should impact the right to bear arms.
Removing individual liberties should never be the go-to solution to fix social problems.
Education is always a better solution. Educate people better on guns and you'll see less stupid deaths and less blind fear.
>>69027516
>Suicide rate has gone done massively.
Lie. The gun suicide rate dropped. The total suicide rate has remained largely stable.
>The point is that the violence has gone down.
Lies. See image.>>69028051
>If you use serious enforcement, then people will stop circulating the guns so freely.
Whoops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxEHXlYckTY
>Gun control has worked there.
All it has done is change the suicide methods used.
>>69043433
Thing is, retards here are like women in that they want to FEEL "safe", not BE safe. And they want to do the least amount of work to do it.
Freedom makes that kind of retard feel less safe, which is why it's scary and gets shunned.
15 shootings in Melbourne in 2 weeks about a month ago.
>>69023244
Look at my country! 11k deaths by civilians with knives or guns, with strict control!
>>69023244
This >>69024230
Besides, Aussie crime and murder rates have been going up while the US has been going down
That the crime rate went up after guns were banned and that there have been several shooting sprees since.
>>69023244
Sure.
>>69028557
>Since then, those crimes have gone down considerably.
Then why did the decline take so long to begin?
Could it possibly because that decline is part of the global trend of declining violence in western countries and that banning guns had no impact whatsoever?
Hell there is a stronger correlation between the decline in violence and the children born post banning leaded fuel becoming adults.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615
>>69043701
Exactly they base their whole policy on hypothetical situations and ignore the reality we are actually living through.
>>69041025
Yeah, they are going to let militia members keep their semi-auto weapons because countries such as Finland requested it. However they will be banned for everyone else.
Don't know how it's going to end up in Switzerland, but yeah, that shit is looking pretty bad.
>>69023244
they are an island that can be fairly easily moderated what comes in compared to most places in the world
>>69024376
Its around 50 million
>>69035310
Detroit and Chicago are just places. You can apply the same logic to any city that has draconian gun laws yet enormous murder rates. The explanation is simple: criminals don't obey the law, therefore gun control has little to no effect on criminals committing crimes with guns.
>>69023244
open carry at the Republican Convention this summer.
it's the right thing to do. it's a likely target of a Paris style terrorist attack. Without guns the delegates will be defenseless. Ohio is an open carry state.
Help make it so.
https://www.change.org/p/quicken-loans-arena-allow-open-carry-of-firearms-at-the-quicken-loans-arena-during-the-rnc-convention-in-july-2
>>69028277
"You don't have the right to tell me what is and isn't necessary to protect my life and liberty."
>>69039032
> if you kill 19 people, it's one homicide with 19 victims. But the government only counts the number of homicides, not the number of victims.
Clever. Our government does similar sneaky statistical shit by labeling Mexican criminals and illegals as "White hispanics". So the overall number of Mexican crime that people can point to is lower.
>>69046806
damn straight.
Open carry Republican Convention
>>69027868
Because someone with a 66IQ is incapable of pulling it off.
Yhea, headshots firing from the hip.
>>69047372
Dont forget, 30 headshots with less than 30 shots fired.
>>69046947
Do they do the same thing with arabs too?
>>69040802
What myth about ammo? We used to receive one box of 100 round per soldier to keep at home. But it's over since 2007 something like that.
But we can keep as civilians a lot of ammo at home. Of course you have to buy it but we can.
>>69041025
>>69044827
This is IM-PO-SI-BLE. There is hundreds of thousands of swiss that practice shooting sport each year. The gun lobby is very important and there is a something like 50 guns per 100 swiss (and many non-registered others).
If they try to impose more gun control or to ban semi-auto rifles the rightwing will make an referendum against it and the majority will vote for it. Many persons that don't even have guns will vote for it because it is an attack against our sovereignty. And if you think that the schengen-shit will change something you're wrong. We have already voted to limit immigration in 2013 (2014?) and deport foreigners. Two votation openly against Schengen and the EU.
Swiss folks in majority isn't afraid of this bullshit.
>>69049030
Plus guns market product a lot of money.
If this law is accepted a lot of people will lost their job.
>>69023244
yes.
fucking look at australia
their gun control utterly failed
>>69023244
BULLSHIT IT WORKS
I LIVE IN AUSTRAILIA AND CRIME HAS SKYROCKETED so fuck off you liberal faggot cunt.....You cunts fucked up my country already (PS ONLY HONEST PEOPLE GAVE THEIR GUNS UP......GUESS WHAT THE CRIMINALS HAVE THEN STILL SO DOES THE CORRUPT COPS!.......
Fucking Kek controlled liberal fucktards
>>69049030
>What myth about ammo?
There was one being spread by guys using Swiss proxies that you cannot buy and store ammo at home in Switzerland.
>>69027516
THAT DATA WAS PROVEN TO BE BULLSHIT and it does not show CURRENT information you fucking cock sucking liberal....... ALL CRIME HAS SKYROCKETED from rape to home invasions....but that would not help your cause you fucking useless cunt
>>69028557
what the fuck have u been doing you fucking retard!
YOU DONT LIVE HERE bet you never visited
>>69027516
Notice it was a downwards trend PRIOR to the ban....
>>69049776
What the fuck? This is bullshit. For exemple i know a man that has bought 1'000 rounds of russian 7.62...
I personally have 100 rounds.
>>69032395
really Tell you what you fucktard...
I will buy your unemployed ass a ticket...
Get you to walk down any street you like in sydney out of the tourist area....
and we will do this to ALL major cities in Australia and tell me "it has low crime"
Why is it fucking Yanks pushing this shit and NEVER a Aussie....
Aussies know it was a failure
>>69050393
>>69050393
I know. I think it was a shill to push for disarmament by saying "see the swiss did it too", or something. I have Swiss cousins, so I knew better. And so did your countrymen when they arrived.
>>69034195
here here..someone who is a Aussie saying the same as me.
>>69041025
They will never stop pushing. The anti-gunners are ideologues. Because of a new lever action shotgun they are pushing to ban ALL lever action and pump action guns here in Aus.
They are making up new terms and acronyms like 'Manually Operated Rapid Fire' MORP.
>Have they have never seen a western film, WTF?
These people are not psychologically sound.
>>69036349
lol where is "rural NSW" mate...........I call BULLSHIT
we kept the cowshit out of your city so KEEP YOUR BULLSHIT OUT OF OUR COUNTRY.
so tell us what town and I will quiz ur arse....
>>69040912
Lies! Lies!
ever been involved in a home invasion with violence?
it's not very nice.
i'd rather have a gun fight than melee... particularly with multiple opponents.
>>69051919
I know someone who was... in Australia.
If she'd had a gun, they would not have been able to rough her and her kids up and make off with their money and belongings.
>>69028277
"Thats why I own an AR. More attachments, more fun"
