Daily reminder that christians are more trustworthy than atheists.
Christians are forbidden to lie, whereas atheists are not. This causes the atheist to lie considerably much more.
If lying is beneficial to the atheist, and he believes he can get away with it, what's stopping him?
Yes, christians lie too, but not as much. Restrictions work, otherwise the legal system wouldn't (or any other kind of rules/norms for that matter).
weird then that there are almost no atheists in prisons then
>>68986233
How is that relevant?
>>68986388
Guess it wasn't. Go tend to your potatoes instead of shitposting.
It would seem that atheists, with their supposedly superior inclination to logic and reason can't refute this. Blown the fuck out.
Bumping for salty atheists.
An atheist may be forbidden to lie, depending on code he adheres to.
A Christian may be forbidden to lie, depending on what denomination he's in.
>christians are forbidden to lie
What about all those lies they continually tell themselves?
>>68987858
I'm talking generally here. There are exceptions with everything. There are civilized niggers, but that doesn't make the majority of niggers civilized.
Besides, it doesn't matter if the atheist follows some arbitrary moral code, he still doesn't believe he will be punished for lying.
Muh forgiveness
Atheists don't get a second chance in Heaven. They live in the now, and at least acknowledge they have a choice in making the world a shitty place or not.
Whether or not you believe in God shouldn't affect a single decision you make in life.
>>68987982
Such as?
>If lying is beneficial to the atheist, and he believes he can get away with it, what's stopping him?
The same can be asked of Christians.
>Yes, christians lie too, but not as much. Restrictions work, otherwise the legal system wouldn't (or any other kind of rules/norms for that matter).
Hunter-gatherer societies had thrived for years without government laws.
>>68988066
>Whether or not you believe in God shouldn't affect a single decision you make in life.
Whether it shouldn't or not is irrelevant. It does.
>They live in the now, and at least acknowledge they have a choice in making the world a shitty place or not.
So do christians.
>>68988028
Besides, it doesn't matter if the atheist follows some arbitrary moral code, he still doesn't believe he will be punished for lying.
What is your basis for saying this?
>>68988108
>The same can be asked of Christians.
Except the christian can't get away with it. There's no hiding from God.
>Hunter-gatherer societies had thrived for years without government laws.
They still had norms and rules. You don't need a government for that.
>>68988211
Who is going to punish him if he gets away with it? He doesn't believe there's any omniscient higher being keeping tabs.
Christians can be forgiven for lying (drinking drugging raping molesting).
Atheists live with personal responsibility.
>>68988147
>It does.
Not really, the stories in the bible are tongue in cheek parables, they're meant to provide examples of how morality works in a practical way. Even as an atheist you can learn from them. To reduce those stories to dogmatic tripe about how your religious institution is the correct one is pretty rich of you, really.
>So do christians.
But they have the added bonus of seeking forgiveness in Christ and 9/10 times justifying the horrible bullshit they do every day because they are constantly patting themselves on the back over their imagined piety.
>>68988375
>Christians can be forgiven for lying (drinking drugging raping molesting).
No one knows this until judgement day. I personally believe there will be repercussions for all our wrongdoings.
Besides, it doesn't matter. Christians still acknowledge that lying is wrong. In an atheistic worldview it just doesn't make sense. If lying is beneficial to your own survival or well-being, and you can get away with it, there's no reason that you shouldn't do it. After all, it's only you who matters (fundamentally).
>>68988212
A Christian can get away with it in the short-term.
Atheists can adhere to norms too.
>>68988291
Atheists can be "punished" by being socially excluded, and/or marginalized. There are negative social effects for lying.
>>68988520
>Believing in God doesn't affect a single decision you make in life.
That's literally what you just said. Are you shitposting?
>But they have the added bonus of seeking forgiveness in Christ and 9/10 times justifying the horrible bullshit they do every day because they are constantly patting themselves on the back over their imagined piety.
"lol i can murder or rape this woman, because jesus will forgive me anyways, lol yoloswag". It doesn't work like that. If you know something is wrong, you will refrain to the best of your capabilities from doing it.
>>68988818
>Atheists can adhere to norms too.
Sure they can, but they have no reason to unless it's beneficial to their own survival and well-being. If like I said, they can get away with it, it's only logically follows that they should break said norm (in this case lying).
>Atheists can be "punished" by being socially excluded, and/or marginalized. There are negative social effects for lying.
Hence I said "if they can get away with it".
>>68988832
Calm down. Sometimes something is wrong, just because it is stupid, or because the objective 'right' is to achieve a goal while minimizing the harm it causes or attention it draws from others.
>>68986388
>>68986707
>>68986937
You do realise IDs are a thing right?
This is a bait thread anyway.
>>68988591
Not all atheists will share the same worldview, however. It is possible to believe in a certain type of afterlife that may punish you if you have acted in a particular way, even if you're an atheist.
>>68986177
>Christians are forbidden to lie, whereas atheists are not.
the problem with simple minded christians is that they lie and do all sorts of things and then ask god for forgiveness which is automatically granted.
an athiest, (or the sane version, and agnostic) has to live with his acts. I'd trust an agnostic over a bible-thumper any day of the week.
>>68988944
>Sometimes something is wrong
Atheism and moral absolutism are incompatible.
>>68988945
It's not a bait thread as much as it's a thread to call out atheists for less trustworthy.
>>68986177
>Christians are forbidden to lie
Christians and Jews are also forbidden to kill, and that hasn't stop them to do so.
>>68989107
>Atheism and moral absolutism are incompatible.
True. Guess some of us don't do things by the book.
>>68989107
No they are not, unless you have a logical proof to show that they are incompatible.
>>68988940
Have ever considered the possibility that many atheists can have empathy? Empathy will often stop people from doing certain things.
>>68989021
Who will punish you? A "non-sentient" lifeform? If the thing that is going to punish you is sentient, it's a higher being, and thus equivalent to God, hence you're not really an atheist.
>>68989032
It's not granted unless they genuinely repent. Besides, I even acknowledged in the OP that christians lie too, just not as much.
Also, there's no such thing as "just" agnostic. You either believe in God or you don't. You can be an agnostic atheist/theist/deist, or a gnostic atheist/theist/deist. There's no inbetween. You might as well say all these "non-binary" SJWs are right when they say you can be something other than man or woman.
>>68988940
>If like I said, they can get away with it, it's only logically follows that they should break said norm (in this case lying).
Nope. Empathy, or other emotions may stop a person from lying.
>>68989187
>Christians and Jews are also forbidden to kill, and that hasn't stop them to do so.
Forbidden to murder, not kill.
>>68989320
Who is the absolute moral authority in an atheistic worldview? If there is none, there can be no absolute morals.
Empathy (i.e. emotions) are not rational. Atheists praise themselves by being higly logical and rational, and thus shouldn't let empathy get in the way when they make a decision.
>>68989386
>Also, there's no such thing as "just" agnostic. You either believe in God or you don't.
you don't understand the distinction between atheist and agnostic, and you make this thread?
yep, christians ARE as stupid as they seem to be.
and as for that "genuinely repenting" crap. righto.
anyway, this thread is bait so bye!
>>68986177
this is true. when i went from being a christian to an atheist, lying went from being a sin to being a useful strategy. i started implementing it more often. i also had the fear of an ever present deity watching over me recording every thing i did removed. feel good
>>68989386
There doesn't have to be a "who", it is logically possible to just be sent to the void, or a place of infinite suffering if they have led a "bad" life.
>>68989545
You've obviously sipped on too much fluoridated water. You are too stupid to even understand the most basic forms of logic; non-contradiction.
>>68989597
Who the hell decides if it was a bad life? That's my point.
>>68989534
>If there is none, there can be no absolute morals.
A non-sequitur. It is logically possible for there to be moral absolutes, or objective moral values without an authority. See consequentialism.
It is not necessarily true that to have emotions is to have emotions get in the way of decision making. The existence of emotions does not necessarily conflict with the existence of reason.
>>68986177
>If lying is beneficial to the atheist, and he believes he can get away with it, what's stopping him?
Atheist here. I never realised it, but there is actually no reason for me not to lie. Thanks for making it clear to me, OP
>>68989748
There doesn't have be one, and so we still have a case of spiritual punishment for an atheist.
>>68989887
>It is logically possible for there to be moral absolutes.
No, it's really not. Consequentialism reeks of naturalistic fallacy. "Something is good if it has a good outcome." Good outcome for whom? If a rapists rape someone and gets away with it, it's good for him since he successfully pleased himself and possibly secured his own procreation. It's bad for the rape-victim. Was the act right or wrong?
>>68989748
An atheist in their own life may believe that their actions were, and/or bad.
>>68989980
You must be shitposting. Something can't be both right and wrong, that's contradictory, which is illogical.
>>68986177
there are reasons for not lying beyond "omg god is watching". some people think it is just a bad policy that may come back to bite you if youre caught and so dont do it
>>68990145
So deciding what's right and wrong is up to the individual? So no-one will go to this "hell" you're talking about? You just have to think of your actions as morally just? Awesome.
>>68990127
That's a misunderstanding of consequentialism. Consequentialism does not attempt to derive an ought from an is, it merely proposes a moral principle.
>>68990200
Yes, but this thread was about not getting caught-
>>68990189
I don't know what you're talking about.
>>68990255
No. You misunderstand. An atheist may believe their actions were wrong, but may still also go to a hell.
>>68990267
Consequentialism is that good decisions have good outcomes (Do you need a dictionary?) Good bad is subjective, which puts consequentialism in moral relativism, which is illogical.
>>68990294
yeah so if you dont lie you cant get caugh. why some atheist dont lie
>>68990410
>An atheist in their own life may believe that their actions were, and/or bad.
What are you implying with this then? That the atheist can believe his actions were justified, but they were still wrong? Who the fuck decides that they were wrong? Consequentialism? The good and bad which is subjective and up for every individual to decide? You make no sense.
>>68990417
Consequentialism does not say that good, and bad are subjective. If the goodness of an action is determined by the effect, then the idea is objective, not subjective. Do you need a dictionary?
>>68990423
Yeah but see, you also have to take into account that if the odds of getting caught are less than 50%, there's no reason you shouldn't lie (if the outcome is beneficial for you).
>>68986177
>Being this cucked by Muslims that you only dare to speak about atheists
>>68990527
Alright, let's put it like this then. If a rapist sedate someone while they are sleeping, then continue to rape said person, he will be satisfied, and the rape-victim will never know what happened. There's literally no "bad" effect of this according to your line of reasoning.
>>68990499
It doesn't matter what is wrong, or right, it just matters whether, or not it is plausible for an atheist not to lie, that is the subject here.
>>68990566
hence why i started lying a lot more when i became an atheist. and do you know what i actually feel good about myself when i get away with it. no guilt at all. i do a little fist pump when my bullshit excuse works for something.
>>68990673
Brussel. Both jews and muslims are excused when it comes to lying (in certain areas). That however, is irrelevant, since atheists are fully allowed without no consequences whatsoever (if they don't get caught) to lie.
>>68990700
I'm not a consequentialist, also the subject is not about what moral code is correct, or not, it's about the plausibility of an atheist not lying.
>>68990706
It does matter what's wrong or right. That's what this entire discussion is about. If there's no authority telling the atheist not to lie, there's no reason for the atheist not to lie (if he can get away with it). You ought to stop drinking so much fluoridated water.
>>68986177
It's easy for someone to lie and say they're a Christian though, they might even go to church
>>68990926
You brought up consequentialism as an argument as to how there could be a "hell" without a sentient lifeform operating as the moral authority. I just explained to you how that cannot be. Consequentialism is literally bullshit, and doesn't stop an atheist from lying or doing anything, since right and wrong is subjective in absense of a absolute moral authority (i.e. God). Atheism is incompatible with moral absolutism. The end.
>>68989534
>Forbidden to murder, not kill.
Again, is not like most of the murderers through Occidental history weren't Christians.
>>68990957
I've already proposed 3 ways for an atheist to be plausibly prevented from lying, try to refute them.
1) A moral code that says lying is wrong.
2) A belief that they'll be punished in the afterlife for doing so.
3) Empathy.
>>68991049
Irrelevant. If someone is a proclaimed atheist, he's more untrustworthy.
>>68991145
1) Makes no sense to follow if lying is beneficial to the atheist and he can get away with it.
2) No, since atheists don't believe in God, and atheism is incompatible with moral absolutism.
3) Letting emotions get in the way when making a decision is irrational. Atheists proclaim to be highly rational.
>>68991098
First of all, no I did not. I brought up consequentialism as an example of an objective moral principle that that does not invoke an authority. Asserting that consequentialism is subjective is not an argument. The end.
>>68991292
>Letting emotions get in the way when making a decision is irrational. Atheists proclaim to be highly rational.
human beings are highly irrational. so he has a point there.
>>68986177
I am a christian i steal i lie i just pray and god forgives me
>>68991396
I brought up consequentialism as an example of an objective moral principle that that does not invoke an authority.
That's like saying a pencil can create an objective moral principle. Pencils can't think, they can't reason. You need a sentient lifeform for that. A moral authority.
>>68991292
1) It does make sense if the moral code prohibits such a thing.
2) That's an assertion, not an argument.
>>68991500
>I brought up consequentialism as an example of an objective moral principle that that does not invoke an authority.
That's like saying a pencil can create an objective moral principle. Pencils can't think, they can't reason. You need a sentient lifeform for that. A moral authority.
EDIT
>>68986177
You forgot one thing - Christian can commit terrible crimes in the name of God much as Muslism do in Europe
>>68991530
1) There's no reason to just blindly follow an arbitrary moral code. Why do you think atheists don't follow the entire moral code of the Bible? Because many of the rules don't make sense for them to follow.
2) >That's an assertion, not an argument.
So is this >A belief that they'll be punished in the afterlife for doing so.
>>68991292
>Letting emotions get in the way when making a decision is irrational. Atheists proclaim to be highly rational.
The existence of emotions does not necessarily conflict with making a decision.
>>68991692
They conflict whith making rational decisions. Do you even dictionary?
>>68991500
What? No, consequentialism does not propose that objective moral values are created.
>>68991595
Terrible according to whom? An atheist and his moral relativism?
No, they're not, they're absolutely not.
In the adult world, trusting a stranger for arbitrary reasons can be the worst mistake that you can possibly make.
Trust people as much as you reasonably have to, but only go beyond that with individuals who earn your trust themselves.
In the real big-boy world, archetypes mean nothing, and people can pay lip service to any ideology or ethos that they want to, without actually following it whatsoever.
Never be lulled into complacency by how people present themselves. Deal with them based on what they actually do.
As somebody who inherited a bunch of properties in a almost completely christian/white town and has been dealing with the hassles of renting out for decades, I am laughing so hard at your naivety.
If you display a weakness, it will eventually be exploited, and it may very easily come from somebody who cloaks themselves in piety.
There's no magical method of determining who is going to do something shitty. Unethical/dishonest behavior is very often born out of opportunity.
Ignore this reality at your peril.
>>68986177
Any christian who says shit like this doesn't understand the message of jesus.
>>68986388
>>68986707
>>68986937
>>68987197
>>68987384
>>68987696
>samefagging and bumping your shitty thread
Did you get cucked by an atheist or something?
>>68991826
Would you rather sleep next to a lion or a sheep? Get out of here with your stupid argument.
>>68991785
Give me a dictionary that has a proposition such as that.
>>68991691
Doesn't matter if it's logical, or not. People often feel that they are justified in the moral codes that they follow, even without actual justification.
2) Nice deflection.
>>68991838
yeah doesnt the bible say god created man in his image with morals and man gained knowledge of sin later by eating from the tree of fuckyourniggershitup?
>>68992003
At least I didn't get cucked by an emu.
>>68992073
hes talking about lions in sheepskin
>>68992003
atheist suck dicks and when they die they are nothing, forever lost in the void.. Christfags are in the book of life and live forever ,praise god
Pretty sure that OP is butthurt because he lives in a very atheist country top kek.
>>68992154
>So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
So its not bearded sky man anymore?
>>68992547
Not at all. Just telling people that it's irrational to trust an atheist.
>>68992655
Well it is if i see a brother saved by christ who i dont know i can just loan him 1000 bucks and i would be 100% sure that i would get it back
>>68992846
Just let the thread die.
>>68992073
See, here's the thing, it's not an argument, it's an observation. I'm not a sheltered autistic littler kid trying to spin a narrative.
I live in the actual world, and here on earth people from all walks of life will can and will tell you whatever you want to hear the entire time their positioning themselves to fuck you over, and they'll pick your bones clean and not give a single fuck, no matter what face they show on any given Sunday.
You'd do well to abandon your simplistic little fantasies about people being perfectly compartmentalized by the time you're old enough to enter the workforce yourself, or you're going to be chum for the sharks.
I'd not lay down with a lion or a lamb. I'd keep them both locked in a fucking pen because I actually own stuff, and I'd rather it not get shat upon.
>>68992895
why as a former atheist i was a piece of shit he makes a lot of sense
>>68986177
>there's a big old guy with a white beard in the sky that created the world in seven days
>oh, don't forget to donate and pay your church taxes
Yeah, totally no lies, you're so right Sweden.
>>68993490
>oh, don't forget to donate and pay your church taxes
Please show the verb in the bible what describes this
>>68993137
You obviously didn't get the memo. I never said christians don't lie. I said that atheists lie more, and it makes perfect sense that a christian is more trustworthy than an atheist. Are you an anarchist or something? Don't believe laws/rules work?
>>68993685
You know as well as me that christians are narcissistic pieces of shit toothpaste. They're still human and would lie right in front of your face to get an advantage. You shouldn't teach a human to be "good" just because he can "go to heaven". Start thinking for yourself and be a generous human, don't act like one.
Same with mudshits, they just act friendly when they're a minority but most of them are assholes.
Religious people are hypocrites and break their "rules" all the time.
Daily reminder that Semetic Religion is the only thing more pretentious then hyper left retards.
Christianity, islam, judaism
They are all about saying one thing and doing another, there is an endless amounts of contradicting scripture to help you rationalize any decision you make.
But its that self righteous, holier then thou, perfect image that get them into trouble. Wether it be refuting basic fact in academia or harboring child molesters who "prayed away the gay" years ago.
Religions (and philosophies) arent about truth, they are about soap boxes.
>>68994036
Rather be pretentious than a degenerate.
The average atheist is the person who would see no problem lying in a job interview, on his CV, to the girl he's flirting with, to his friends when he'd rather stay at home than going out, etc. They lie literally every day.
>>68986177
>There is a skyman and he made animals and earth.
>Skyman is all-powerful.
>AND HE NEEDS YOUR MONEYYYYYYYYYY
Wow, Christfags are so trustworthy.
>>68986177
HE HOLDS THE BIBLE HIGH
>>68996537
>>68996359
It's not a coincidence that pinnochio wears a fedora.
No one else?
>>68986177
Most christians are pussy shits and lie anyway. Because then they can just "repent." And jesus will be like its cool bro lol *high five*.
>>68998660
We've already been through this.
>>68988832
