Daily reminder that, if you are Catholic, you literally believe in the transubstantiation ritual.
hat is, when you partake of the sacrament, the food and wine literally turn into the body and blood of Christ. It's not symbolic. It actually, factually, quit literally changes into the flesh and blood of Christ.
If you are Catholic, this is not open to interpretation. This is what you believe.
If you do not believe this, you are NOT CATHOLIC.
babbys first religion?
are you new to the earth?
>>68428012
It should go without saying: Religion is for people who can't think for themselves.
This just happened be on that other place that 4chan seems to hate:
https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/4bglm9/after_each_terrorist_attack_and_the_inevitable/
>>68428012
dur. catholics used to pray to false idols until about 50 years ago. they still can't ask for forgiveness themselves, only through a priest. catholic philosophy clearly states that st. thomas aquinas is the basis of their philosophy, but he is quite obviously wrong.
catholisism is about believing in a giant power structure. not god.
Daily reminder that you Catholics can't buy your way into heaven.
>>68428012
Daily reminder that the devil is the guy behind: do not steal, do not murder, do not fornicate, do not be gay or degenerate sexually and so on.
It is human nature, it is god given, you are to be as degenerate as you want and this is yours to enjoy not to be ashamed of and when you finally go to heaven, you get to enjoy even more sexual "depravity"
Only an aberrant disgusting freaks doesn't get moved by hatred, violence and murder against enemies.
Only an abomination is disgusted at the sight of a cumshot, a squirt or the possibility to engage in zoophilia, the kinkier the better.
Fuck you abominations, the devil makes you hate yourselves and you think you're doing good.
This world is our oyster and we fuck with whomever and drug ourselves with whatever.
I AM EATING CHRIST
I AM DRINKING HIS BLOOD
I AM A CANNIBAL
>>68430718
Okay Mc Perroflautas Mr.Podemos
Daily reminder that the 'reformation' destroyed the west.
>muh white lies
>muh prophet Luther who literally (not figuratively, literally) ate his own shit
>any retard's interpretation of the Bible is equal to the most educated theologian
>predestination
>televangelists
>the earth is 6,000 years old
>>68431400
>life is to suffer, god wants us to suffer!
Idiot, you aren't even good enough to use as a sperm cleaning slave.
>>68430718
I don't think you've ever read the Bible.
>>68428012
Divide and conquer shit. Love of the Lord should be first and foremost.
>>68431686
Jeremiah 8:8
type it here if you have the gall.
>>68428012
Yeah. It's the same for Orthodox and other Eastern Christians. Believing that the bread and wine literally become the body and blood of Christ is what essentially all Christians believed until after the Protestant Reformation. Even some Protestants believe that.
>>68431511
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7QHFm2AeMo
Go drink some more, potatonigger.
>>68431570
>Can't even control his own penis
You are going to be the one cleaning sperm. From your own shirt, son. Do you even discipline?
>>68428012
I grew up Orthodox and they literally gave fucking wine juice to everyone there for communion like what in the fuck even the children had some wine
>>68428012
>it's a religion thread on /pol/
>>68432230
>posts literal fiction
Normal for a protestant
>>68431511
Isn't predestination stated in the Bible though?
>>68432954
Another one, this time about good works as well.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/James-2-14_2-26/
Now you know why Luther hated the Book of James
Why do Catholics believe this but won't believe that God created all things as described in Genesis?
>>68431511
Not really. It might have destroyed Christianity, but I would argue it saved the West. Once Christianity was shattered, the enlightenment had room to take it's place.
Then we had the American revolution that valued freedom of the people over divine right of kings. We are the 1# super power of the world.
>>68432230
>potatonigger
Are you colorblind? That's red, not orange you retard.
>>68433917
Because scientists can study the Earth, but the Catholics are very protective of their juice and crackers, so it hasn't been proven wrong.
>>68428012
>t actually, factually, quit literally changes into the flesh and blood of Christ.
Yes.
It does.
>christ comes back to earth in the form of a cracker
>immediately eat him
Speaking as a Catholic, holy shit, it's fucking symbolic, even Jesus Christ himself said it as symbolic, why would you fucking think otherwise.
>>68428012
Catholics aren't Muslims. They understand there's some footway in religion.
Speaking as a Catholic, holy shit, it's fucking symbolic, even Jesus Christ himself meant it as symbolic, why would you fucking think otherwise.
>>68434009
You've got a point there, but on the counter, the reformation started after the renesance. The ideas of the individual and humanism would have developed just as well without the reformation, and even allowed to grow by a church that was not under direct attack by sects that used that as justification. We might even have seen democratic ideals spread in Europe if it weren't for the thirty year's war, which was caused by northern german nobles using prodestant religion as justification to take power from the Holy Roman Emperor
>>68434581
When I was in catholic school, I learned that it wasn't symbolic, but it was ACTUALLY the body and blood of Christ.
They stressed that it wasn't metaphorical, but that it was REALLY the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ.
>>68431511
>predestination
We're not all Calvinists. Scottish parliament was allowed to ratify the Westminster Confession of Faith under William of Orange, but the rest of Britain didn't.
>>68434775
Maybe, but the Church would hold more influence if there wasn't such a widespread rebellion against it.
>>68433303
Yeah but isn't it already predestined who will declare Jesus and worship him as the son of God? It gets weird when you believe in free will and that God already knows what we will do.
>>68434581
i'm jealous, i want to be part of catholicism but hold to heresies too.
t. a man saved by grace through faith apart from works
>>68435131
Has an argument about this.
>God is all knowing, he knows what has been, is and will be
>God creates man, and because he is all knowing he knowingly creates an entire timeline a certain way
This is predestination, right? God created man knowing what path each and every person would take.
>>68434581
Bullshit. Learn your own dogma
>>68435060
Yeah, but it's a big point in many sects.
>>68435117
That's not necessarily a bad thing, a governmen That can respond to the will and needs of a people should have a slower, more conservative check like the church.
>>68435131
If it is, see >>68433747 as there's a lot more to getting in than just that. Additionally, God could simply know, but not determine it. For example, I know Trump will win Arizona but I haven't caused that to happen.
>>68434581
>i'm a catholic
>has never heard of the council of trent
>denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue" and anyone who "saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood - the species only of the bread and wine remaining - which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation, let him be anathema."
>>68434695
>speaking as a catholic
>denies core tenant of catholic faith
>>68428012
So?
>>68434695
The Holy Spirit is literally with you when you consume the Host.
It's called the Host because it literally hosts Christ.
(Just realized this thread would be confusing af for people who have that literally to figuratively filter on chrome)
>>68435683
>more conservative check like the church
I understand what you mean, but a church can be a very, very backwards institution with some very strange beliefs.
For that purpose, I very much prefer courts over the church that commanded Galileo to renounce his knowledge that the Earth orbits the Sun.
While I dislike the focus on idolatry and how Catholics fucking resewed the veil, I don't actually mind it that much. My main issue is with people claiming to be of a particular religion or sect while not believing in or following core tenets.
For example, I know several "Muslims" who gamble and consume alcohol for the sole purpose of intoxication, both irrevocably haram.
A "Catholic" who does not believe in transubstantiation as a literal miraculous act is Anathema.
>>68428012
I GUESS I'LL JUST GO HOME THEN
THANKS
>>68436419
This.
I don't believe in any of it, but if you DO believe it, how can you honestly cherry pick things you find inconvenient?
>>68436546
If you considered yourself Catholic but did not believe in the literal act of transubstantiation, don't worry, the council of trent meant that the Church, The Pope, or God himself never even considered you Catholic in the first place. You were excommunicated somewhere between 1545 and 1563.
>>68436290
People often talk about Galileo but view the trial in a vacuum. The Pope actually was very interested in his idea, and intended for a fair trial and to witness proof of his ideas, but Galileo sperged out and wrote a book with a charachter representing the Pope named stupidus or something. He outright insulted the Pope, who got pissed enough to make Galileo do that shit.
>>68436883
Then I may be wrong about that, but I still hold that a religious institution is not at all favorable over a court system and a constitution.
>>68437174
>constitution
I had forgotten about that actually. I really like having that, but as you know, it's constantly chipped away at because
>muh hate speech
>muh babbykillers
>muh metadata
Often with express permission by the court system. Courts should be a good check, but not when liberals apoint them or elect them. A strong moral fiber promoted by a strong church would have stopped that from forming imo.
>>68434009
Englightenment ideas caused every societal problem in the past 200 years.
The U.S. has been going downhill for decades, along with the rest of the West.
>>68437777
I don't necessarily mean the US constitution in particular, but despite the problems we face, the United States is holding up fairly well.
>>68438728
The U.S. was founded based on enlightenment ideas. "decades ago" is centuries after the enlightenment.
>>68428012
>a religion requires an article of faith
Why is this so surprising to you? Transubstantiation is an article of faith in the same way that the virgin birth or the resurrection of Jesus is.
>>68434581
Also speaking as a Catholic, you're wrong. Learn the Faith and correct your errors.
>>68428012
I know, it's great right. I'd be agnostic if I wasn't Catholic.
>>68439439
Could always be doing better though
>>68440110
I am pointing out that a lot of so called "Catholics" on this board are not actually Catholic at all.
>>68428012
Prince Harry, are you Catholic?
>>68440816
Why are you assuming that "a lot" of Catholics here don't believe in transubstatiation?
>>68428012
This is like Catholic 101
>>68440564
But a church is not better. A transparent, rigorous court system is better than an unsupervised religious institution.
Religious does not necessarily mean they have good morals, only that they hold various beliefs to be true by faith, some of which are absolutely retarded.
It's counter-intuitive to prevent modern degeneracy with bronze age degeneracy.
>>68441055
Most I have met in real life do not.
Most claiming to be Catholic are just trying to meme.
>>68428012
Ok...and?
Also remember that if you are a catholic and you become or help communists, you become excomunged
>>68441186
I disagree, because I don't think our court system has been at all conservative. By the way, I'm an American on vacation. But with all the supreme court shit and with circut courts all upholding local gun bans and whatnot, that branch is no longer a check. But anyway, I gtg. If this is still up later (which I doubt due to primaries) I'll talk more.
Yup.
>>68434695
Found the retard protty false flagger.
>>68436883
Thank you. Also, Galileo could not account for the parallax, so he wasn't that awesome of a scientist, he got lucky.
>>68442347
Also, being conservative is not necessarily a good thing either. We should do what works whether that particular thing in question is 'conservative', 'liberal' or otherwise.
As for gun bans, I disagree with them, but one could argue that unless you are outright banning all guns, you aren't infringing the right to bear arms, only particular arms that people are afraid of for some irrational reason.
Daily reminder that, if you are Protestant:
Your theology is inherently liberal as it rejects tradition, hierarchy, and authority, and requires the acceptance of wildly varying interpretations of scripture;
Your theology is based on fundamental lies about scripture and history;
You arbitrarily rejected several books of the bible that the apostles themselves considered to be canonical in order to justify your rewriting of Christian doctrine;
You're directly responsible for centuries of division and apostasy;
Martin Luther openly regretted his part in the Reformation in his letters and diaries;
Your theology is a walking carcass, constantly dividing into smaller and smaller denominations, rapidly declining in numbers, and continually discrediting Christianity with the allowance of absurdly heretical sects which serve as useful idiots for leftist propaganda;
Your rejection of Catholicism included the rejection of the Greco-Roman philosophical tradition.
>>68441139
>And Jesus said "This is my body"
>Catholicism 101
Yeah pretty much. I mean you can think its stupid but Catholics take the words of Christ for what they are. Catholics are way better than Protestants though in like every respect.
>>68441448
I blame really shitty Sunday school for creating a lot of really shitty Catholics who don't understand the religion they claim to be a part of.
>>68441448
This is probably ignorance due to a lack of proper instruction rather than a conscious rejection of doctrine. As far as I know, it's only if you consciously reject doctrine that you place yourself outside the Church--if, however, you are acting/speaking from ignorance then you aren't held accountable. It's probably better to say that they are simply ignorant/uneducated Catholics than not Catholic at all.
>>68442977
>Your theology is inherently liberal as it rejects tradition, hierarchy, and authority, and requires the acceptance of wildly varying interpretations of scripture
Like Jesus Christ
>Your theology is based on fundamental lies about scripture and history
It's based on the same translation of scripture as was widely available within the Catholic church at the time of the 95 theses
>You arbitrarily rejected several books of the bible that the apostles themselves considered to be canonical in order to justify your rewriting of Christian doctrine
The apocrypha are from the old testament and were Jewish you moron
>You're directly responsible for centuries of division and apostasy
I think that was the Catholic Church's corruption, idolatry, and their resewing of the veil
>Martin Luther openly regretted his part in the Reformation in his letters and diaries
No he didn't. He openly expressed regret for the way the world was, which was one of the reasons he wrote the 95 theses in the first place. He would have blamed the Catholic Church's heresy for this.
>Your theology is a walking carcass, constantly dividing into smaller and smaller denominations, rapidly declining in numbers, and continually discrediting Christianity with the allowance of absurdly heretical sects which serve as useful idiots for leftist propaganda
The entire point of Protestantism is that each man has their personal connection to God and to Jesus Christ. There is no standardised body that controls all of protestantism. One sect will believe another sect is wrong. Meanwhile, you have Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
>Your rejection of Catholicism included the rejection of the Greco-Roman philosophical tradition
No it doesn't, that is entirely arbitrary on your part.
>>68444259
The council of trent states otherwise.
>>68442977
>Your theology is based on fundamental lies about scripture and history;
kek
>You arbitrarily rejected several books of the bible that the apostles themselves considered to be canonical in order to justify your rewriting of Christian doctrine;
be catholic, add some books in XVIth century to provide 1 verse for purgatory, books no other than Catholics consider canonical.
>You're directly responsible for centuries of division and apostasy;
forgets about shism in XII century
>Martin Luther openly regretted his part in the Reformation in his letters and diaries;
like if Luther was the only reformer
>Your theology is a walking carcass
wasn't that Catholic church who added some dogmas in the past two centuries that were heresies three centuries back? especially the dogmas regarding Marry
>Your rejection of Catholicism included the rejection of the Greco-Roman philosophical tradition.
almost nothing of value was lost this way
>>68442977
1 that's not what sola scriptura is
2 prove it
3 they weren't rejected arbitrarily, i'd like to see the evidence for the apostles regarding the deuterocanonical books as canon. i've seen really vague passages people have tried to shoehorn into being references to them.
4 being divided from what the church of rome had become is a good thing
5 i'm sad that rome didn't reform too.
6 "leftist propaganda" "rapidly declining in numbers" people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
7 ok
>>68444259
Yep, I would put my money on this. I went to CCD which is the equivalent of Sunday school for Catholics (at least in the US) and I don't think transubstantiation was ever covered again after First Communion at age 8 which is really a shame since even if you teach it to 8 year olds the understanding at best is skin deep. I'm glad I had parents that were well informed to answer questions, provide context, and do research when they admitted they didn't know something.
>>68444781
CCD is what put me on the road to becoming an atheist.
>>68445246
Yeah I heard that from a lot of my friends, same goes for friends that went to Catholic school. I can't say exactly what should be changed to make it better but it is not done well currently. People attend for an hour a week for half the school year and its a joke for the 15 minutes you actually spend doing anything.
>>68428012
USbro told me that I should go with catholicism when converting to Christianity. Was I rused? I'm a sand nigger, I want to go with the Roman Catholic Church or Orthodox Church, ideally.
>>68446031
My advice would be change the church doctrine, don't teach it to them or keep them ignorant about the world. Things like transubstantiation are obviously false.
Once you grow suspicious of the church, you end up rejected it as a legitimate authority, and along with it you end up rejecting the bible.
In the end, you are left with a god stripped of everything, existing without power and without will. The last step is realizing that that idea is just as silly as the rest.
>>68428012
Oh ur so smart. You are a brilliant thinker. Where did you get that setting the iq high score? I am in shock at your intellect.
But seriously, of all the things catholics profess, you take issue with transubstantiation? Youre an idiot.
>>68428363
Atheists are evil liars, who peddle Satanic dogma in honour of their God, and when they gain absolute power are even more evil than Muslims
Note the atheists like cockroaches scurrying out and blaming Christianity for another Muslim atrocity
May they be accursed
>>68446554
A fair enough suggestion but in all honesty I would not personally want to just change doctrine whenever public opinion swayed on an issue because then you end up with Church of Sweden. I understand how someone can disagree and become suspicious of the doctrine but there are certain issues in any religion that won't be changed because they are part of what defines the Church and people who disagree should not be members. I personally don't have a problem with transubstantiation, it means that Christ's essence is in the Eucharist and that to me is not a radical idea. We know that the bread does not change into literal flesh but that it does become Christ in the sense that Christ said "this is my body, this is my blood" and we show reverence and respect to that fact. The Church admits very frankly that scientifically the Eucharist is not flesh and the sacramental wine is not blood but Christ's claim that he is present in the bread and wine is taken as fact and considered a sacred mystery.
That being said I understand if someone doesn't agree or thinks this is all silly and have no ill will to people who decide not to be Catholic/Christian/religious.
>>68448138
I know what you mean, but the problem doesn't end with transubstantiation.
One may end up asking "what exactly is the nature of 'essence'?" "What exactly is a soul?" "How does an animal function as it does without a soul?" "Why do humans need a soul if we have a natural explanation for consciousness?"
It's not just one point, but many, that leads to a distrust in the church.
The Catholic church has ceded so much for the sake of being consistent with what we've discovered through scientific inquiry that it seems like a really silly convoluted process for something that God could presumably do in a much simpler way.
It is for this reason, from what I've seen, that evangelists who outright reject knowledge derived through science are far more devout than the Catholics I've met, who if you ask them about it, will sometimes even sound like agnostics who adhere to religious tradition for the sake of fitting in with their families.
>>68428012
>literally turn into the body and blood of Christ.
I knew there was a reason my gf likes to suck dick. Catholics are cannibals.
>>68449614
Well I think your point here is simply "can't science just explain this" which is perfectly reasonable but its more of an argument to me against all religion and not just Catholicism. I'd characterize myself as a hopeful agnostic Catholic that tries to be more devout and have more belief so I understand what you mean in your last sentence but I certainly intend to raise my children Catholic because it is more than just the belief in God to me even if I can't prove it to others or entirely to myself.
Reminder that Protestantism was funded by Jews and Turks to subvert the morals and power of Christendom.
>>68450478
>which is perfectly reasonable but its more of an argument to me against all religion and not just Catholicism.
I'm looking at it from a pragmatic point of view with the aim of keeping followers from leaving the religion, not really critiquing the beliefs of Catholicism itself.
Which is why Islam and Evangelist Christianity are so successful. They pick the third option of my suggestion: Keep them ignorant about the world.
New Age crap is successful because it's all feel good nonsense that constantly evades any rigorous inquiry and isn't all dependent on one authority. Debunking it is like playing wack a mole. This is what several Catholics I know, including some of my family members, are turning to.
You know all this religion shit reminds of a great passage from Lords and Ladies.
"I don't hold with paddlin' with the Occult," said Granny firmly. "Once you start paddlin' with the Occult you start believing in Spirits, and when you start believing in Spirits you start believing in Demons, and then before you know where you are you're believing in gods. And then you're in trouble."
"But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg.
"That's no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages 'em."
>>68428012
and your mother transubstantiates into a giant whore, what difference does it make?
daily reminder that the Bible was written by HUMANS under "divine inspiration".
Guess what that means you faggots.
You think these little bashings will weaken our faith?Little do you know fedora tippers
>christfags will defend this
So what are you guys asking santa for this year?
Jesus tastes like cracker
