>I just want to point out to you, Anon, that just because YOU were able to switch jobs and get a better one doesn't mean everyone has that opportunity.
>it isn't always just about getting a new skill set and acquiring another job. Lots of factors go into why people are STUCK at shitty jobs like Walmart and McDonalds. Sometimes it's because of their past histories, people who had children early or fucked up their academic or employment career early don't HAVE a lot of options. And don't get me started on the people with a criminal record.
>If i hadn't found Grooming as a career I don't know WHAT i'd be doing now, but I'd likely not have much of a foundation for advanced employment. I didn't get good grades in school and I have a horribly long list of past employments, many of which do not correlate to one another. College is expensive and it's not likely I even qualify for a student loan. So what the fuck are people like me supposed to do if we can't find a specialty career?
>Please also keep in mind that the people who are demanding a minimum wage increase are largely people who don't get 40 hour work weeks. The market is so over-saturated with people working entry-level minimum wage jobs that there just aren't enough hours to give out. Those people need a wage increase more than anything to compensate for the hours they're not getting.
I think my friend just convinced me that $15 might not be such a poor choice for our economy. Can you point out any flaws in any of this?
>>68423901
>grooming
>career
you know, higher minimum wages causes more expensive products, which in turn would harm people who are stuck at minimum wage jobs. not to mention that automation at some point would become cheaper for companies
>>68423901
I grew up in a single parent household with 3 siblings. I worked hard for a technical diploma and a 2 year degree in a profitable field. everyone has an opportunity few take them.
eat shit and die you liberal. AMA
It screws over everyone making 15 an hour or more. The closer you are to that the more you lose out.
If i can't afford to pay you 15 dollars an hour for the work you do, i wont hire you. But you need the job, maybe? Tough luck, i can't let you work for less even if you want to.
>>68423901
These people are fucking retarded,
They will only end up pushing the inflation and what they do then?
Raise the minimum wage again.
>>68423901
If they want their $15, they should collectively bargain with management instead of demanding that our government do something.
Higher pay is earned, not given.
Wanting 15 dollars an hour is just nigger mentality with welfare.
Well paying jobs is a privilege, not a right. If you can't find a god paying job, you're not trying hard enough or looking in the wrong places.
If the country were to adopt a 15$ an hour minimum wage, then the price of everything in the country will raise to match it. It would be pointless and just end up fucking over our economy even more than it already is.
We arent living in third world countrys. In the live of someone working at a place like this.... oh my. In your whole live, you are only as good for as giving me my burgers. Thats how low these workers are and thats how it works. There is mostly a reason for people working there. And this being stupid and ignorant. If you work there already, and would be intelligent enough to know what you do and where you are, why didnt you guys already commit suicide? And thats why ignorance is truly a bliss, only the stupid can succumb to. I am thinking about suicide every day, even tough im trying to get into a good university and study physics, engineering or heck even being a doctor would be acceptable. The more intelligent people get the more they realize that everything actually doesnt matter. $15? ... thats not even how much your life is worth.
>>68424096
This is a shitty false argument and you're an uneducated piece of shit for believing it.
The cost increase on prices would be marginal, companies that sell goods can't raise prices too much or else they'll just get undercut by their competitors.
>>68424115
The funny thing is that you're actually getting screwed over MORE by companies not paying their employees a liveable wage. Corporations like Wal Mart laugh all the way to the bank while they pay their employees $7/hr, forcing them to all go on food stamps and welfare and thus making working citizens have to pick up the tab with our tax money. Fucking idiot.
>>68423901
Americans really seem to get fixated on stupid solutions to problems.
How on Earth do you go from
>too many people are underemployed, uneducated, unskilled, or some combination of the three
to
>we should raise the minimum wage
>>68423901
why do those people think what they're doing are actual jobs deserving a proper pay?
the more they cry about higher wages the sooner they'll get replaced by robots
>>68425854
Rofl you are so tirelessly incorrect the amount put into raising minimum wage would directly transfer to inflation. By this logic, could we up the minimum wage to $40 and expect only say a few bucks on average inflation?
>>68423901
My state raised the minimum wage this year. All that's changed is prices. A burrito still costs an hour's wage, but now that's $10+.
>>68423901
>company cant afford to give them hours
>makes hours more expensive
>gets even less hours
I work harder than you ever will and don't make 15
>>68423901
why not $1500 an hour?
>>68426206
Corporations like Walmart push for higher wages and socialized medicine constantly
Big companies aren't hurt by a higher minimum wage despite what your little OWS mind thinks
The people who get hurt are small-med business owners
As a neet Id work for less than $7.50 now. It's fucking hard finding a job now , even baskin Robin's won't hire me . fuck this world
>>68423901
I have no idea. Mostly because ive seen professional economists saying both sides. Like literally one guy with a degree saying he thinks it'll make a whole bunch of jobs and another guy with a degree saying it'll lose a whole bunch of job. Im not deep enough in business or economy to asses either side
The number of people that I see around me who have degrees or certifications and use absolutely none of it never ceases to baffle me, especially when those people complain about the shitty retail or cashier jobs that they work
>>68428993
>actually believing that Walmart and other companies like it give a single fuck about raising wages
>of course they would want socialized medicine, because then they wouldn't even have to pay their full time employees health insurance
Those "small - medium business owners" don't deserve to have a business if they can't afford to pay their employees a decent wage. Honestly $15/ hr is still fucking pitiful in most areas. Even assuming an employee is able to get 40 hours, that's $600 a week, and just over $30k a year, which is pleb tier poverty line shit. It's hardly enough to live on alone, let alone for people to raise kids and have any quality of living.
>>68429944
>retard alert.gif
>>68429518
The professional economist saying the $15 wage isn't viable is a corporate dicksucking shill
>>68430208
Great argument faggot, kill yourself
> People are against higher wages
Completely ignoring the factual increase in productivity with no increase to wages if blows me away that anyone on /pol/ would be wage increase.
> B-b-but wheres the money going to come from?
Company's pay their top brass slightly less and/or cut their earnings by marginal numbers.
>>68430220
Yeah thats cool and all but im kinda past the point of letting my opinions on matters that affect millions of lives be informed by random shmucks on the internet.
If there has been definitive study showing one side or the other is superior that'd be great
>>68424248
>let you work for less
Thats the one argument I don't get. Who the fuck says sure pay me 5 an hour I need work. Don't say illegalz
>>68430523
Forgot pic
>>68423901
>I want more money to waste on stupid consumer horseshit
I WANT BLUETOOTH IN MY CAR. I WANT AN IPHONE 7.
>>68426206
You realize minimum wage is different in different states right? In AZ you make just over $1000 after taxes in a month on minimum wage and you know what? That will get you a studio apartment, food for a month, a phone and car insurance bill, and still leave $75-$100 as fuck around money.
>>68429944
So more people should be put out of business? More people should be unemployed?
More of Walmart and large corporations opponents should be forced out?
I lived off of 6k a year during university desu
>>68428530
Because that's completely unreasonable and unsustainable.
$15 ≠$15 000
Tired of hearing this retarded non argument.
>>68423901
Automation is going to kill most minimum wage jobs within 15 years.
A higher minimum wage will only accelerate that transition.
BTW, you're helping that process every time you resolve a captcha. You're training Google and IBM AI to lean what objects look like in 2D.
>>68431171
I want to buy new videogames whenever I want
I Want I Want
Honestly this is why depression has taken off in first world countries
>>68431223
It's over double the minimum wage
>>68423901
demanding that people get paid more isn't going to make people have more money. the business is going to compensate and cut staff and etc to mitigate the costs. all you would accomplish is to force people whose skills aren't worth $15/h to be unemployed.
>>68423901
The solution is to create a mixed-company economy.
Instead of going around giving out foodstamps and welfare, you use that tax money to set up companies.
These state owned companies have a fundamental difference, and it's that they can operate at a loss (they are like a semi-social program). These companies can employ people, pay them a good wage, have them medically assured, and sell their products at a low price because again, they shouldn't care about getting a profit.
I think this is the best way to come around reducing dependence on welfare, creating jobs, giving people nice work conditions, all without raising prices, printing money or whatever.
The money earned would mitigate the cost of mantaining said company, and the products created could be anything the general population needed.
>>68431662
Yes. And $15 000 is over 21 thousand times the minimum wage.
>>68431223
why not just make a law where everyone gets the same per hour?
that would be fair right?
also, if 1500 isn't sustainable, then what about 150?
>>68431792
The new deal did nothing to save America's economy FDR
>>68430975
>>68430523
It's almost as if something was introduced around 1980 that increased productivity without the need for additional human labour.
Whatever could it be?
>>68423901
Maybe we need to fix our currency's devaluation along with our overpopulation that has saturated the job market. Making min wage higher isn't going to change either of those things.
Until you fix the root problem you're just going to band-aid shit until it needs surgery.
>>68431792
that's a great idea. how is it not a thing already.
>>68432005
And?
I see no difference in that
What's the difference between 15 and 15000? Do you think 15 won't cause inflation?
>>68430975
workers didn't increase their productivity. Computers and advanced machinery did. Both of which cost money.
>>68430975
>>68430523
>>68432149
I really can't think of anything. It must be the greedy corporations stealing from their workers.
>>68432033
> why not just make a law where everyone gets the same per hour?
Because that would be retarded. That isn't even an argument or any kind of valid point.
> what about 150?
To me that seems unreasonable, but that's the thing with numbers. They're different.
>>68430899
People without jobs or money. Getting any amount of money is better than none at all.
>>68431223
So is $15
FUCKING REKT M8
>>68423901
>just because YOU were able to switch jobs and get a better one doesn't mean everyone has that opportunity
Stopped reading there. Why should I give a fuck what happens to you and your dropout friends? I'm not obligated to care about you, and neither is anyone else.
>>68432149
Kek
You can also make the same argument about the industrial revolution
Wages went down because of that event btw
You didn't need to pay a craftsmen so much money anymore
>>68430899
Illegals get payed over minimum
They're hired because you don't have to worry about insurance or overworking them or any of that shit
nobody wants to earn anything anymore. it took me like 5 years to go from 5.75 to 10. these kids all get hired in at 9 or 10 while a gallon of gas is half the price it was in the early 2000's
>>68428993
The idea being that it would put small businesses out of business? Why not just raise the minimum wage at Wal mart, so that the smaller businesses must respond or lose all their employees and go out of business?
>>68423901
> I had bad grades
> I might be a criminal
> WAAAH GIVE ME MONEY
What the fuck
People who complain about minimum wage almost always have iPhones, and a Starbucks drink in their hands at all times of the day.
>>68423901
If they have to pay the unambitious slackers at Mcdonalds 15 dollars an hour they will simply be replaced by robots.
>>68427097
>robots
Or mexicans.
>me me me me me
Its always justified like this, with no regard taken for basic economics. The world doesn't revolve around you, your wants and needs don't make higher minimum wages viable.
>>68431792
This is basically just socialized busy work. They already do this in prisons.
The problem is that even in this system efficiency will lag and people will give no shits because they are doing the bare minimum for bennies. Its a worthless middleman that will only get more worthless as humans stop having to work once automation removes all but the loftiest of professional careers.
In the mean time we should be focusing on domestic production of all our necessities so that the infrastructure is there when we do turn to automation, and until that time people can work.
I just dont understand leftists.
>lololol Trump wants all the jobs to get back to usa imagine price of iPhone then xddd
>raise the minimum wage, dont worry price of food wont raise
Fucking faggots, the price of an iPhone is more important than the price of food.
>>68429944
Man, fuck you. I work at a locally owned pizza place. The owner pays us minimum wage starting, but the dude is super nice, treats his employees well, and he works just as hard as the rest of us and makes us feel valued.
Meanwhile when I worked at a corporate fastfood restraunt they treated us like living piles of garbage.
If the owner had to pay us 15 dollars an hour he would go out of business or have to cut personnel because people can't spend 15 dollars an hour on unskilled laborers who cook pizzas and wash dishes.
>>68433129
Mexicans would be all over that shit for 10/hr
>>68432149
>>68432586
> You produce 150% more then the 70's but should be paid the same
> Wut?
> Computers
Nice argument.
>>68433029
Because people will work for minimum wage
That's like asking why doesn't everyone just not work minimum wage (most don't btw I've never encountered a minimum wage job before just 15$ is ridiculous)
>>68432033
If everyone had the same amount of money per hour, then there is no point in even having money.
>>68423901
>mfw noeliberal americuck doesn't realise companies that pay under $15/hr are relying on government to top up what people need to live
>mfw ogliarchs are forcing welfare because they don't have to pay people properly
>mfw Americucks scream socialism and communism while getting pegged by tyrone
>>68423901
>fight for 15
>wait, we need illegals working below minimum wage to keep the service industry from crashing
pick 1
>>68433495
>mfw assertions are facts
>>68432005
I said 1500, NOT 15000, obviously 15,000 is unreasonable, but 1500 sounds pretty doable
>>68433319
>You produce
You didn't produce the increase in productivity. The computers produced it. You shouldn't be compensated for work you didn't do.
>>68423901
>grown adults think its acceptable to work the cash register at mcdobalds their whole lives
>>68433495
>mfw blacks would complain about $15 minimum wage because they'd lose their ebt cards
>WAHHH PAY ME MORE MCDONALDS!
>mcdonals raises their wages
>WAHH WHY ARE THE $1 BURGERS $2.99 NOW! WAHH
>>68432653
>Because that would be retarded. That isn't even an argument or any kind of valid point.
if there is no argument for that, then why is there an argument for a legally enforced minimum at all?
>>68429944
Seriously, you need to drown yourself in bleach.
Small business owners don't deserve to own a business because they can't afford to pay as much as large corporations? Then how the fuck is anyone supposed to escape dull corporate work?
Starting a business is the best way to become independent, and you want to stop that?
What the fuck is wrong with you. Either start a business of your own or just admit that you're too stupid and/or lazy to do anything other than work for someone else and just accept the low pay you deserve.
>>68433732
I don't think he understands that the arbitrary choice of a minimum wage cannot be justified. Leftists will never understand basic logic.
>>68430899
I would work for less, if it meant that I get trained, or gain experience in a field that will pay well.
Have you even searched for a job? You do know work experience is a valuable thing to have in your resume?
The problem is immigrants, both legal and illegal (but mostly illegal)
The low skill job market (where the poor go) is flooded with immigrants. Any idiot can flip a burger or can lay a brick, it is hard work but not complicated work.
Now all these immigrants are driving down wages, why hire fatty mcteen for $10 an hour when migel will do it for $9.
Another problem is that this is a band aid fix, after all inflation will kick in eventually, $15 won't mean shit after 30 years or 50 years. it is an artificial inflation of wages.
Make low skill labor mean something, stop saturating the labor market with immigrants and maybe wages will go up.
>>68433446
damn, my utopian communist dream is crumbling, WHAT ABOUT MY FEELINGS, YOU BASTARD?
>>68433319
>You produce
>>68430523
>Company's pay their top brass slightly less and/or cut their earnings by marginal numbers.
You don't understand how business works at all. For multinational corporations, cutting "top brass" salaries amounts to virtually nothing when spread out across thousands of employees. Cutting earnings is also a fucking asinine idea for attracting capital and keeping the company afloat. Investors will leave and the company will be fucked. Also, those earnings are reinvested into the company or other places in the economy. You're stunting economic growth for something that will cost jobs, raise prices, and encourage EVEN MORE companies to move overseas.
It sucks to have a shitty job, but these people are going to find out what it's like to have no job instead.
make it 11.50
>>68433182
>efficiency will lag and people will give no shits because they are doing the bare minimum for bennies
Even if it has a "social project" approach i don't see why this would be the case as long as we treat employees in a nice but strict way, and if they don't do their job then they get fired like in any other company. You gotta work and work hard for the benefits.
>worthless as humans stop having to work once automation removes all but the loftiest of professional careers.
I wouldn't expect full automatization to happen within the next decade or two, so for the time being it would work fine.
Once automation happens you can redirect these funds toward welfare or minimum income or whatever and leave the machines do the jobs.
>we should be focusing on domestic production
Yes, and my idea would help with this
>I want $15 an hour for mindless zero effort work so I'm going to destroy the chance for any hard working citizen to build and maintain their own business from scratch.
>>68428132
But how much value do you produce?
>>68432653
like how you find 150$ unreasonable, a lot of your future employers are going to find 15$ unreasonable.
>>68423901
The flaw is that "don't have a lot of options" is fucking bullshit. These same crybabies waste all their free time smoking weed, netflix binging, going out to bars/clubs, fucking around on facebook, etc when they could instead use that time to study something that will eventually get them a job earning more money.
And don't say "I don't have the time" when you just complained about "not getting enough hours" at your shitty job. You do have the time, you just choose to waste it.
>they still haven't learned from the Great Depression
>>68423901
AS someone who works those shitty jobs, the work I do as a cashier does not deserve 15 dollars an hour. It's brain dead work and even retards work there.
The only people who get paid higher than minimum wage for the same work are people who have worked there for 5+ years and aren't leaving.
If you could get paid 15 dollars to flip burgers you wouldn't quit your job because you don't need that much money to live decent, especially when you live alone or with a roomate. This would cause inflation because not more people can afford things with less work and more money is just being handed out.
I'm going back to college so I can get a better job and more money. With all the time they spent working they should use it for some community college and work part time or in their college to lower the cost. If they get high enough grades they can get scholarships or grants. Even doing sports etc can get you money.
Volunteering counts as work experience.
The opportunities are there, they just don't want to work for it.
>>68423901
>people make bad life decisions so everyone else that have made sacrifices early on to achieve should pay the price.
Go fuck yourself nigger. If you want to steak from me,just go traditional and try breaking into my house.
>>68434304
>For multinational corporations, cutting "top brass" salaries amounts to virtually nothing when spread out across thousands of employees.
This. Executive pay is just a google search away, and in nearly every case firing all the executives would raise the average employee's pay by 50 cents an hour at most. People need to at least do a bare minimum of research before the spout stupid shit.
>>68433446
>If everyone had the same amount of money per hour, then there is no point in even WORKING
If you have a guaranteed income, why work instead of just lazing about the house playing video games and fucking your robot waifu?
Fucking this.
Quads fucking confirm.
>>68423901
>Those people need a wage increase more than anything to compensate for the hours they're not getting.
I just have to point this out for being especially retarded. WAHHH WE AREN'T GETTING ENOUGH HOURS SO BRING US POLICIES THAT LEAD TO CUT HOURS
>>68434164
>Make low skill labor mean something, stop saturating the labor market with immigrants and maybe wages will go up.
It's not really low skill labor, but technical and higher skilled laborers are being shafted as well. The H1B visa and OPT for graduating student visas have displaced jobs in IT, engineering, accounting, and what have you. It's really starting to spread, and they will work for below average wage just to stay in the US.
>>68431185
>They give me crumbs, and i am happy. "See, if you only have 3 meals a day, you can live easlily"
>>68425854
Undercut by competitors... that also have to pay their employees $15 an hour?
If everyone has to pay more for employees, then everyone has to pay more. If a company comes up with a way to not need the expensive employees, then they will not hire as many employees. So less people will have jobs...
We are at the point where minimum wage jobs really are being replaced by computers. McDonalds is replacing the ordering stations with do it yourself computers because minimum wage employees always mess something up. Grocery stores are replacing cashiers with do it yourself computers for shoppers that don't need 1 on 1 interaction for a few items. Delivery companies are doing major autonomous delivery research (driverless cars, drones) so they don't have to pay drivers. Tesla factories and other modern auto factories are almost absent of people. Valve recently demonstrated their controller assembly line which featured literally one person and 20 machines. Everything from Silicon Valley is invented to cut the minimum wage worker out and only fund the engineer. Bars now employ robots to make cocktails. Pharmacies now employ robots to fill prescriptions without messing up. Almost all call centers have been replaced or partially replaced with voice recognition computers.
>>68434657
>deserve
arguement invalid
>>68423901
$15 an hour isnt unreasonable at all for large chain stores and restaurants like mcdonalds and walmart. wages should depend on how much a business is making at a certain point. If a business makes fuck all then the min wage is fine.
>>68431509
Absolutely agree on the consumerist bullshit but I gotta say the minimum wage discussion really isn't all that relevant to it.
>>68435214
I already said it was brain dead work that mentally disabled do, which is the explanation
>>68433907
Oh no, maybe less americucks would get fat
>WAHH Why is health costing less!
>>68423901
>$15 per hour
>~20% tax
>Inflation
Wow, does literally nothing but devalue our currency. Enjoy getting replaced by robots.
>>68435345
Its an economic discussion, not if someone "deserves" the money.
You Americucks are so brain washed its not funny.
>HUURR BOOTSTRAPS
>>68433060
>gets caught with weed
>can never have a good job
A lot of people who don't make $15 deserve it, however cashiers and people working McJobs do not.
>>68435547
If you want to stick with economics, be my guest and explain in rational terms how a price floor will result in anything other than deadweight loss (unemployment). That's ECO 101, clown.
>>68434333
I currently do janitorial work for $11.50 an hour cause I live in canada and its safe to say inflation does indeed happen.
>>68434118
It's not arbitrary, it's quite below what the USA minimum wage was in the 70's (iirc), inflation adjusted
>>68435225
>$15 an hour isnt unreasonable at all for large chain stores and restaurants like mcdonalds
Again, everything you need in order to show this is bullshit is a five second google search away. A $15 minimum wage would wipe out all profit they made last year.
>>68423901
>i fucked up consistently at every stage of my life and am too dumb to compensate
>i shouldnt have any negative repercussions for htis
>requiring people to get payed more will somehow not make oversaturation worse because (mumble)
>minimum wage goes up
>small businesses tank
>no more wholesome neighborhood mom and pop shops, barbers, pizzerias, niche good stores, mechanics/gas stations, bars where you know the owners name
>now everyone is at the mercy of corporate cock
T-Thanks
>now E
>>68435615
>knows its illegal
>does it anyway and gets caught
>hurrrr its not fair my life is ruined
>>68436065
A number pulled out of the air is the definition of arbitrary, anon. It would be less arbitrary if he actually did argue for the inflation adjusted 70's wage because at least he'd have some reasoning behind why he chose that number (though that wage itself was arbitrary back in the 70's).
>>68435547
Clearly I am talking about the type of work deserving a certain type of compensation. It's clearly economic in every way.
Australia is full of fucking retards anyway, wouldn't expect you to understand words in context.
>>68436227
>no more wholesome neighborhood mom and pop shops, barbers, pizzerias, niche good stores, mechanics/gas stations, bars where you know the owners name
hey, it's not often people post across the time stream from 1976, how are things there, anon?
>>68436227
>implying this hasn't been happening anyway over the last 50 years
Welp time to kill myself
>>68423901
You don't have to "get a job" - you can literally just do what you want. If what you want is to make money, do what you want that will do that, with the only restrictions being basic moral ones.
>>68436543
>>68436585
You guys must live in depressing shitholes. There are tons of small family owned businesses (although struggling) in the us
>>68423901
Here's what people don't understand. If you want minimum wage you will be making minimum wage whether they increase it or not. The price of products and goods will increase to adjust for wage increase. Retail items across the board will increase due to supply and demand. More income means higher prices. Minimum wage increase only lasts one month until the market adjusts. If anything it hurts our economy because it makes our goods less competitive in the global market.
>>68436585
Yeah, and you don't want to do anything to fix that? Why are you more concerned with bringing large corporations down than you are in bringing small business up?
>>68431185
Yeah and absolutely no money towards retirement. Good thing we have social security! Oh wait, that shit is probably going to be used up by the time we're retirement age.
>>68436236
>Some guys decided that a fucking plant is illegal from now on
>You, as a good bootlicker, blindly follow a completely arbitrary law
Also, weed feels awesome. Such a good moments i had highed.
>A number pulled out of the air is the definition of arbitrary
But it's not arbitrary anon. It's the minimum wage it should be (or even lower) if the USA 70's minimum wage was inflaction adjusted. I don't think you understood:
>70's america
>minimum wage was 5 dollars
>2016 america
>minimum wage is 7.5 dollars
>inflation increased 200 %
>minimum wage should be 10 dollars so it could be equivalent to 70's minimum wage.
Numbers were taken out of my ass
I love this thread since I lost out on a promotion at work last week. We're anonymous for a reason but, long story short, several applicants for a new position were 'graded' on a quantifiable points based system and I came in 2nd place out of 7. The 1st place winner, a black woman, was offered the promotion instead. Many thoughts went through my mind. First, how the hell did a negris beat me? Second, at least it was fair and square. She should have gotten the promotion since she 'scored' higher than me. I'm not angry. I'm proud of her. This is how things should be. My experience last week has totally decimated any leftist argument of 'privilege' in my mind, as if it needed decimating.
Also, OP...
>minimal education
>minimal training
>minimal number of marketable skills (if any)
>minimal experience
What do you expect to earn? Most people who earn the minimum wage are exactly where they belong.The minimum wage, you know what that says? It says your boss would pay you less if he could, but he can't. He legally cannot pay you less or that's what he would do. Also, who the hell wants to earn minimum wage regardless of where it's set? Regardless of the economic impact, the minimum wage is hardly something to be aspired to.
>>68435087
>im lucky to have a job that pays me enough to live a good life, despite having no skills whatsoever, which is why im only paid minimum wage
ftfy faggot
>>68436852
The ratio of corporate franchises to small businesses is completely different from what it was during the 80s or 90s. Now, almost every city has a Walmart (no coincidence that Walmart blew up in the 90s when you consider the Clintons' tie to them). There are still small businesses, sure, but that's not the point.
>>68437073
>Yeah and absolutely no money towards retirement. Good thing we have social security!
I'm not sure if you appreciate the irony of claiming there's no money for retirement when the government takes a significant portion of your check to pay for social security. You should be bitching about that instead of the minimum wage.
>>68436791
Retard appeared. Kill yourself weeabo
>>68437384
Yeah so why not just kill em all off amiright??????
>>68437442
Sup low-IQ poverty boy. Do you thirst for cute anime girls that much?
>>68431212
Again, if the employers can't afford to pay a living wage, then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
Cool story about living on 6k during university, there are a lot of free resources at your disposal at school. Room and board aren't that expensive.
>>68423901
Just watch videos on youtube where Milton Friedman (Nobel prize winner) BTFO minimum wage
here is a one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk
there are dozens other
>>68437283
>It's the minimum wage it should be (or even lower) if the USA 70's minimum wage was inflaction adjusted.
No it's not. Once again, google is an excellent resource. The peak minimum wage was in 1968. Today that would be ~11 dollars. 15 was a number pulled out of that man's ass and is completely arbitrary.
Use google, read a dictionary, and maybe then you can debate.
>>68423901
>makes bad decisions
>bad things come as a result
>But I dindu nuffin
>>68423901
>demand minimum wage hike
>get it
>no longer make enough to qualify for that welfare
>demand less hours to qualify for welfare
>no longer make enough to live like im successful
>demand minimum wage hike...
this cycle goes on
>>68423901
Whats the point in raising the minimum wage? Doesn't everything else go up? My food is more expensive now.
>>68425854
>>68435137
>People actually think labor is 100% of the cost of goods
When wages go up, goods only increase by a small fraction of the wage increase.
And as for automation: somebody has to build, program, and maintain the bots.
>>68433244
Good thing he was nice to you while paying you minimum wage and probably raking in the cash, laughing all the way to the fucking bank. The only difference between Mom & Pop Pizza and Dominoes is that M&P are fucking you with a smile on their face.
He's probably selling pizzas for $10-15 a pie, you literally only need to sell 2 pizzas an hour for that to more than pay for your labor and still make a profit. If the pizza isn't garbage, I'm sure he's making money hand over fist. So of course he's in a good mood, faggot.
>>68423901
since you don't run a business I understand this is a difficult concept for you, but where does the money come from? If you were a business owner and now you had to pay all of your employees more, on top of their mandatory health insurance, and you weren't making any more money to compensate for the new costs, where would you get the money from? Please think good and hard about the implications of all the solutions you come up with and how they impact the business.
>>68432149
>>68432464
>>68432586
You guys are forgetting how the US went off the gold/silver standard at the same time.
>>68438081
>And as for automation: somebody has to build, program, and maintain the bots.
It certainly won't be the minimum wage workers, especially if you rush the process by forcefully increasing the minimum wage.
>>68425854
Obamacare saw many minimum wage employees get their hours cut so the employet wouldnt have to give health insurance. Add $15 minimum wage and see what you get next
liberals fundamentally don't believe in economics
they think its all just fucking magic
>>68435137
This is actually just a good argument that our country needs to implement a guaranteed minimum income, the more autonomized the workplace becomes. This does nothing to refute the assertion that the minimum wage should be raised.
>>68438204
If you know so much about running a business, why don't you run a business? Could it be that you're actually financially retarded and don't know what you're talking about?
>>68438287
That has nothing to do with increases in productivity or minimum wage rates.
>>68437389
Social security is a good thing, I don't mind paying for it. I just hope it's there when I retire.
>>68438081
>And as for automation: somebody has to build, program, and maintain the bots.
Actually, we have bots that can do that too.
>>68437726
How much money do you think small business make? How much do you think it costs to run a business? Factor income tax, property tax or rent, electricity, water, AC, the cost of the product your making selling, and finally employees and your LUCKY to make even 10-20 percent of the money you take in. I own a small business (gas/conveniece store) and its hard but rewarding. Yeah, I could sell to corporate oil and just """"""manage""""" the place for them and cut out a lot off headaches but I like that its MY business. Trust me my employees don't do $15/h worth of work.
>>68437308
>lucky to have a job
We live surrounded by wealth, in the richest societies the world ever knew, especially america. America, with 15% niggers, have higher per capita GDP then tax heavens. Americans don't have a clue about the wealth america has. I only think the money should be better distributed. A little more similar to the 50's america.
>>68429251
Get a skill?
>>68438325
more demand for skilled labor leads to less people with skill having to settle for minimum wage jobs
>>68438376
no you're right we should just stay on the boss man's dick.
>>68437697
I am a student from a lower middle class family. I am somewhat poor. But at least i'm not a weeabo. Pls kill yourself you fucking faggot
>>68438376
Minimum wage employees have been given the run around, part time job treatment for decades now. It's so they don't even approach full time hours that would force the employers to provide benefits.
What your point really reinforces is that the government should instate a minimum guaranteed income, so that working class folks don't get fucked over by shitty corporate hiring norms.
>>68438889
How.
>>68438641
I'm a freelance musician and do very well for myself, working with "small businesses" all the time. Suck my dick faggot
>>68438803
>implying anyone from /r9k/ will even get a job
>Push for welfare, and other social assistance
>Essentially tax citizens not on minimum wage to pay for minimum wage citizens that cannot afford a living
>Corporations laugh all the way to the bank as they tax their skilled works to pay for their unskilled workers for them
Raise the minimum wage, but 15 is too much. 10 dollars would probably be a good minimum.
But really, a big problem is our society's overzealous pursuit of individuality and privacy in all circumstances.
If so much as 2 people who get along fine were to split bills at a decent place they would live quite fine, both on minimum.
>
>>68423901
>waah I fucked up in school
>I deserve better wages
>>68425854
Fuck off lefty
You deserve less than minimum. It's a shame you get that.
>>68438757
No one would have to hope if the government didn't take an amount so large that people can't save for retirement.
>>68425854
The irony of you calling others uneducated is rich indeed.
>>68423901
>burger flippers DESERVE 15 dollars an hour
>meanwhile many soldiers are paid minimum wage
>no one is advocating for them
>>68423901
Sounds like your friend is a faggot and you need to kill yourself.
>>68438809
Then work the cashier and clean the toilets yourself, faggot. If you don't make enough money to pay people a liveable wage then you deserve to go bankrupt.
>>68438204
are you like 13?
Do you have any idea the monthly operational costs of a restaurant?
Rent
Electricity
Supply
Internet
Phone
Credit card fees
ads
And this includes if nothing goes wrong, like plumbing, or any repair costs. A pizza place would need to make like 400 - 500 dollars a week just to break even, and that is if its a SMALL pizza place.
>>68439083
"Lower middle class" of the third world.
Your inability to form coherent arguments is very easily explained by your abject poverty though - I can't hold your poor genes and lack of moral (or any other) education against someone so destitute.
>>68437726
>Again, if the employers can't afford to pay a living wage, then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
yea according to you. Trying to blame your way into accusing a business of magically non-competing by somehow making them feel bad because they should double employee wages
>living wage
never heard a more useless buzzword ever, say good bye to your cheap shit
>if a business can't afford to pay a living wage
then they probably don't have the money to even do something like that to expand so they CAN pay a living wage stupid ass, this is an oxymoron
Fuck off Bernie cuck
>>68439486
Not as rich as my cum splattering all over your mom's face, faggot
>>68437726
>Room and board aren't that expensive.
Also room and board is FAR more expensive than the average apartment
>>68437944
http://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster
You are right. What i saw was calculations with other variables in it.
>>68438063
The thing is, everything keeps getting more expensive, but the minimum wage freezes
>>68423901
>Those people need a wage increase more than anything to compensate for the hours they're not getting
GEE I WONDER WHY THEIR HOURS ARE CUT
>>68439487
Because soldiers are useless pieces of shit that only have a job because of republifaggots who think killing sand niggers accomplishes anything whatsoever
>>68439218
So what you're saying is you have a biased view of small businesses since they refuse to pay your mediocre hobbyist self for your clown act
>>68437726
>if the employers can't afford to pay a living wage, then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
Holy shit this is what liberals actually believe
>>68439871
>soldiers are useless pieces of shit
>but burger flippers are somehow more valuable to society
>>68439684
what an autistic comic
>>68439617
40 pizzas a week, if you aren't managing that it's probably because you're a fucking mongoloid selling cardboard with tomatoes on it.
>>68438234
>Muh "I run a bussiness" mandatory post
>>68439644
>literally victorian age english lord talk
And then you wonder why nobody likes you.
Or you choose to be a fucking asshole in 4chan.
But i think it's the first. Either way, go back to /his/
>>68439741
kek
There's only one right answer.
Your work isn't worth what you need it to be worth, it's worth what it can profitably be sold for.
If the government sets a wage floor, they're legislating one of two things, higher prices on goods and services (hits the poor harder), or high unemployment (hits the poor harder).
>>68440021
Do you have an actual rebuttal or do you not understand Basic Macroeconomics?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_demand
>https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/
>>68440136
>a retarded musician tells a business owner how to manage his busiess
well you're just like bernie then, you don't know what you're talking about and you want everyone to know it
>mfw highschool dropout that makes more than the bern minimum in a job that probably already is automated
>>68439795
Did I say dormitory room and board, faggot? Room and board in general. Meaning rent + food costs. Jesus christ, the fucking mongoloids are out in force tonight
>>68439994
Soldiers are useless by definition when there isn't a war.
>>68423901
>Can you point out any flaws in any of this?
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-self-serve-kiosks-at-mcdonalds-mean-for-cashiers-2015-8
>>68439542
I do abd have faggot, ive worked 24 hour shifts myself for weeks sleeping behind the register with a fucking couch cushion in between employees. Why should my business sink because some entitled shit thinks he deserves more? You have no idea how businessness work nor do you have the work ethic to attempt it. Just opeing the fucking door every morning I have to make $400 to be even making anything. I could afford to pay more and I do pay above the min at 11.50. $15 is unreasonable
>>68439896
Not at all, I do very well for myself. Stay jealous, wageslave faggot
>>68437726
>>68439542
This kind of Anti-capitalist thinking is what's leading us to ruin
How do you think the big guys started?
Oh that's fucking right, as a small business paying its employees 7$/hr(OR whatever minimum wage was a few decades ago)
Eat shit faggot, you aren't getting 15$ an hour, free market trumps your petty feelings
>>68440363
Found the retard guys....
>>68439741
Comeon anon. This is the kind of response that I would expect from someone who didnt graduate highschool.
>>68423901
>>68440154
>basic English
>"Victorian Age English lord talk"
S O
P O O R
In both genes and subsequently ability to reason, you're *so* lacking. I don't know how people like you can bear to live.
>>68434716
but if we double everyone's pay, we could all just work half as much, wouldn't that be awesome?
why don't we do that?
>>68439994
Yeah they actually are. People eat those burgers, they're actually useful. The US swollen as fuck military is so fucking overbloated, 85% of those motherfuckers are getting paid to do nothing of any worth or importance.
>>68440274
Stay bluepilled faggot
>>68438889
No response to >>68439180 hmm?
lmao, next solution please
>>68440454
If you can't make $400 in a day, you're in a shit location or your business is shit. Either way it means you're a fuck up and should kill yourself.
>>68440522
So what are soldiers for in peace time? Do tell me please.
>>68440679
Sure mate, here is a (you)
>>68440690
You think these thought experiments will help persuade people when Bernfags think these are legitimate ARGUMENTS.
>>68440509
You've clearly got some insecurity going on since you saw fit to bring up that you're a "freelance musician." I could take an acoustic guitar and go beg in the subway and be a "freelance musician." All it means is you're too bad to become a notorious artist and too dumb to do anything else. Now you're reduced to a beggar, licking the ass of your local coffee shop owners so they might let you entertain all the people more successful than you
>>68423901
Wouldn't that just make mass inflation to the point where $15 becomes the new $7.25 in terms of buying power and actual value. Due to all the excess money flooding the system with no counter part of goods/services to match the excess currency.
Not a economics major or anything but my one year of high school economics leads me to believe something like that would probably happen.
gotta shorten up your bullshit for my post because of character cap
>first point
fuck you I wash dishes at two different restaurants for minimum wage. by busting my ass at both places (as one should at WORK. that is why they pay you) both the chefs and head management (FoH) like me because I do the dirty work and don't complain and are training me in other areas
>second point
I work with a handful of excons and alcoholics, they're making more than me as they're actually cooking the food because they're all older than me and thus have previous experience in what I am currently being trained towards
>third point
I hold an engineering degree but never once considered working in that. It's miserable and only poor (mentally speaking) fools think a "higher" """education""" from some institution will make their lives better
>fourth point
neither one of my two jobs is able to offer me 40 hours a week. thats the industry I work in so I fucking accept it and deal with it. this is why I'm not a lazy fuck and I went out and got myself a second job to compliment the first. If you constantly show up on time and work without complaining or backtalking or slacking like a bum you WILL stand out from everyone else. all you need to do is put forth that basic & minimal effort because it would appear that 99% of people do not which is fucked up because they're probably the ones complaining like your friend
tl;dr fuck you ya lazy fuck. shut the fuck up and stop complaining. life ain't TV you idiot, you're not special
Higher costs always gets passed on the the consumer. For instance if you look at sales/VAT taxes the entirety of it is paid for by consumers.
>>68440679
He's Portuguese. Socialism has failed him.
>>68440521
Yeah I'm not getting $15/hr, I make upwards of $80/hr. I'm not arguing for myself, I'm arguing for the common good. Stay cucked faggot
>>68423901
If these burger flipping cunts get 15 an hour I'm quitting my job. It's bullshit 4 years in construction and I would only be making a few dollars more than a burger flipper.
>>68440551
Talk shit, get shit on.
>>68441066
And here is a cute anime girl for your dry and poor life ;)
$15 bucks an hour min wage is shit that should be decided on a city level. too bad faggots never vote
>>68440255
im not saying its incorrect im saying its autistic
Let's take a look at seattle
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/02/19/seattles-15-minimum-wage-jobs-down-unemployment-up-this-isnt-working-is-it/#2de15f293712
>>68441066
Soldiers prevent wars by simply existing just like police simply being there prevent crime. It's pretty simple shit.
Also military is used for more than simply militarily. They are also a direct workforce employed by the state. They can build towns, bases, cities, infrastructure, etc etc. Roman Empire used their army in almost the exact same way during peacetime, building colonies, roads, walls, the works.
>>68441104
Haha, I'm sure you wish that was the case. I make over $60k a year, working only 25 hours a week. Lick my ballsack faggot.
>>68438678
>That has nothing to do with increases in productivity or minimum wage rates.
maybe not productivity, but there was no inflation before the ending of the gold standard
>raise t he minimum wage to $15 and up
>companies get fed up with your shit and outsource jobs to other states and country
>w-where m-muh job go??!?
Wew lad
>>68425854
>companies that sell goods can't raise prices too much or else they'll just get undercut by their competitors
So they'll find another way to make up the revenue lost to employee expenses (laying off employees and increasing automation).
Pic related faggot, meet your new replacement. Now enjoy your pink slip.
>>68441465
Not anymore. Foot soldiers only account for a fraction of the military power we have. We could easily pull out of mudslime country and reduce our military spending by half. It's all burning to the ground regardless, being there is a waste of resources.
>>68439180
Learn a fucking trade? it's not hard. find a thing and learn how to do it well.
If you're currently doing fuck all else with your time what do you have to lose?
Learn every damn thing there is to know about (topic) get some self respect and motivation and go get paid to do (topic)
>>68438888
>the richest societies the world ever knew
quads can not excuse this lunacy
what is the national debt of your country? of america it is 20 TRILLION!
>>68441215
More than socialism has failed this guy. He literally and unironically tries to defend totalitarianism of anyone who can manage to force it on people.
>>68441719
In my line of work, I can't be replaced by robots. Nice try though you delusional right wing cocksucker
>>68439083
oh look a student that is a lefty, wow, that's a surprise, did you learn how awesome authoritative fairness is from your professors and teachers?
NONE OF WHOM ARE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR?
AND ALL OF WHOM HAVE AN AGENDA?
I have an idea.
I need opinions on this.
Lowering the minimum wage?
>>68423901
Look up min wage vs unemployment
>>68442024
unthinkable for society, you might as well advocate abolishing it
>>68441503
How?
>>68440718
>Overbloated
>less than %20 of the budget
>Equipment made by the lowest bidder
>Implying they do nothing when we have naval fleets all over the world patrolling the seas
>Implying the military is only used for war
>implying you know what the fuck you're talking about
Please stop breathing.
>>68440363
like house insurance?
>>68437726
>Room and board aren't that expensive.
you stupid faggot, literally everywhere off campus is way cheaper than living on campus. Universities are a cash grab and they suck us in right out of highschool when we don't know any better. I'd have saved so much money had I never lived on res
>>68441044
You fucking idiot its $400 to be even on superficial shit like electricity, taxes, etc. that doesn't factor in my employees, insurance, supplies, permits, licenses, accountants, and products. This shit adds up to thousands. If I sell you a Candybar for $1 how much do you think I make? Around 30 cents. Its not easy faggot. Im not tanking but im not donald fucking trump either.
I dont need a neet telling me how to run a business
>>68423901
My girlfriend works minimum wage.
EVERY single time the national minimum wage goes up, everything else goes up just a little. Little extra tax here, little extra on petrol there.
Every fucking time.
So if you think raising minimum wage to $15 an hour will benefit ANYONE except those at the top, you are deluded. If it happened, all of a sudden prices would go up just enough to take that little extra away, leaving people on minimum wage no better off.
Remember, NMW is what employers LEGALLY have to pay you. What that means, is if there were no laws, they would pay you dick mcshitballs, and get away with it.
>>68441951
You can be replace by cheaper labor in another state, faggot.
>>68439053
Can't suck that dick if you're not even employed, retard.
>>68423901
all you had to do is point out australia
then they'll get butthurt and call you stupid because you're right
>>68442197
By having talent, and not being a radical right wing, racist basement dwelling faggot. You should try it!
>>68441503
>only 60k
Lmao no wonder youre so mad
>>68441465
>Soldiers prevent wars
Hmm, ot true. Roman empire towards the end had a fucking huge army, almost 400.000 thousand troops. Didn't stop all those invasions.
Also you have nukes.
>They can build towns, bases, cities, infrastructure
But they don't.
>>68441814
Japan national debt is 300% of thei PIB
My country is around 130%
>>68441215
Socialism was great for my country. But when they started to destroy it (in the late 90's) everything went to shit
>>68441842
>defend totalitarianism
wrong.
>can you point out any flaws in any of this?
Yeah, your friend is basically asking society to make up for his past bad decisions instead of dealing with them himself like a man. Also what the fuck do I have to do with you being born into a shitty situation, that's just the hand you were dealt, like all of us.
There will never be an end to the complaining and the whining, liberals legitimately do not understand how life works.
>>68423901
So wait. Because people make poor decisions in life, they deserve to get paid more? What kind of bollocks is this?
>it isn't always just about getting a new skill set and acquiring another job
U wot m8? I didn't do all that well in school. I started at minimum wage in a factory. A few years later I learned how to drive forklifts, A few years after that I learned how to drive HGVs. I worked for all of that and you're telling me that because some people boxed themselves into low paying work because of their bad choices the state should compensate?
>>68442749
What instrument do you play / where do you make your money? Genuinely interested argument aside
>>68433069
this so goddamn much it hurts.
it's as if people lost their ability to understand that spending money on stupid shit will mean you have less money for the essentials like food and rent. Fucking retards, my man, I lack the words. I don't even know if I'm mad or very disappointed
>>68442014
No, i am a CS student. Politics literally never were discussed in my classroom in all my uni student life.
>>68442034
http://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster
>>68442248
What are they used for when not in war?
>>68442298
Well apparently you don't like paying your employees a living wage. So in that sense you ARE like Donald Trump!
First world problems, the thread.
Buy less useless shit and you'll be surprised how much money you'll have.
My internship is paying $22/hour.
>>68442780
>defend mafia control of a region so long as the mafia "protects" you from other mafias and uses a portion of what it steals from you on things that happen to benefit you
>"Lol I don't defend totalitarianism"
T O O
F U N N Y
>>68442297
You stupid faggot, when did I ever say room and board on campus? Learn to read, you illiterate white trash faggot
>>68435137
Except the majority of that are either small scale/ single cases that don't reflect the world or are just downright false
Full automation is the biggest meme rn
>>68423901
Here's a meta-study of the impact on minimum wage.
It literally doesn't matter. Price of goods will adjust to reflect the increased wage. If you are a minimum skill worker, you purchasing power will not change.
/thread now fuck off. all other arguments are based on emotion and not actual science.
