what does /pol/ think about this?
fear-mongering about jobs to people who have never had a job
>>68358635
the people screaming for free shit ain't building the robots that will take the jobs
>>68358635
Typical uneducated Marxist dribble.
>let's wear winter coats throughout the summer because winter is on it's way
>>68358635
Even programmers who know about this shit are fearing loosing their jobs to an AI in a couple decades from now. It's a legit concern imho.
Wow they're really scared of having self responsibility and jobs aren't they?
>>68358901
>dribble
typical American poster
>>68358635
they aren't building anything kek
once again they are begging for free shit using the fruits of other peoples' labor.
I do think there will eventually be some sort of basic income, but I don't think people like him will get any of it.
>>68358635
I think
>>68358635
The general notion is correct but he is largely wrong and a commie retard. EVENTUALLY societies will need to move to a more socialist model with basic income but we are a long time away from that. Society will always have money because scarcity always exists.
t. libertarian
>>68358887
This.
>>68358635
>roberts will do everything and we get free shit
Kill all leftists. A fully automated society can not work for a billion of reasons.
I dont think helicopters will fix themselves anytime soon
>>68358635
Hes right though, its inevitable if we keep going the way we're going. Automation will mean that not everyone has to work anymore. The question is, what do we do with them, socially? Right now our society is not structured to accommodate large scale automation. We are tied to this idea, ultimately without basis, that everyone has to work a certain amount to pay their keep. What happens when all the bottom level jobs no longer need humans?
>>68360104
There are plenty of jobs not replaceable by automation.
they have a point. the vast majority of employed people in government and management could stay home and things would actually run better.
eventually there just won't be enough real jobs to go around, so why should we go do pretend work?
the question is easy. the answer is not easy, because there will always be jobs that are easier for humans than for automation. putting gutters on a complex house, for example.
>>68358635
Jesus fucking christ, is this what they really believe?
This is the epitome of not wanting to actually work for something. Socialists are some of the laziest motherfuckers ever.
>>68360275
I specifically didn't say full automation, I said bottom level.
>>68360104
What happens when you don't need the napkin you just used? What happens when you replace that old busted tv? What happens when you're done with that paper cup of water?
You throw it away. Because you don't need it anymore. Why keep any of it? So it can continue wasting resources?
>>68360299
Optimizing arcitecture is excactly the kind of thing an AI would excel at. Just as AI's finding tumors in x-rays better than people already.
I work at a tech company and we were talking about this quite recently.
Firstly, "socialism" as actually implemented in the west is a combination of paying poor people not to riot[0], getting poor people to do more work[1], and making the economy run smoothly[2]. As production grows more efficient, the amount needed to bribe poor people only increases gradually, and thus inequality rises at the same time as poverty decreases. War is the only thing that straightens this out, and we haven't had a big war for a very long time.
Secondly, once they feel they've secured food, shelter, and the other necessities of life, people work to gain social status, and will always continue to do so. A "money-free society" would be one in which people compete for status in different ways, much like SJWs and moral superiority or the chans and dank memes, and something similar to money would probably still exist as a recognition of that status.
[0] Everyone riots when they get sufficiently hungry;
[1] Sick leave and universal healthcare help fix illnesses quicker, parental leave makes the next generation less criminal and more intelligent, etc.
[2] Government-owned infrastructure enables markets rather than superseding them. Compare the US telecom market with anywhere that has state-owned infrastructure.
>have this conversation on a regular basis
>mention I'm a pharmacist
>lel all you do it put pills in a jar you're first to be replaced :^)
I'll believe it when I see it.
>>68358635
Christ. Even my ultra liberal technocratic friend agrees we won't see automation take over for at least another 300 years, and he's pretty much full blown communist. Anti family anti white and all of that jazz.
Ignore those retards at Reddit OP, don't know why you're there anyway
>>68360086
We'll be watching the world burn within our lifetime then.
We'll need to come up with a solution for it shortly because automation is advancing at a rapid rate, even high skill professions might not be safe, the only safe ones from my understanding are the extremely high skilled, entertainment and invention professions, each of which only has a pittance of people and not everyone can do.
>>68358635
>we are building the technology that has the potential
>but first give us free "basic income"
>tomorrow, we'll finish that potential technology tomorrow
Hey, lazy socialist faggots, build the technology that replaces you today, then we'll talk about handing you free shit tomorrow.
>The well is going to take our jobs! - water fetchers, shortly before getting a different job
>the wheel is going to take our jobs - farm hands, shortly before getting a different job
>the car is going to take our jobs! - the carriage drivers, shortly before getting a different job
Labor always moves, cucks
>>68361373
Do they not understand the legal reasons you need to have a pharmacist there? lol
>>68361233
>paying poor people not to riot
Unemployment is more dangerous than poverty. There's a stronger relationship between unemployment and violent crime than between poverty and violent crime. This is true for the typical poverty measure and the supplemental poverty measure.
This suggests that the saying is true: idle hands are the devil's playthings. It may also be that unemployment is a better measure of economic hopelessness than poverty.
>>68361838
It's not quite the same, think more along the lines of horses.
Many years ago horses had plenty of jobs moving people around, they had a simple life of doing their job then getting paid with food and grooming. Then cars came along, what the fuck do horses do now? Basically nothing, now days they have very few uses.
The vast majority of people that will be effected by this aren't skilled enough to move up to a non-automatable job (and even if they were there would be too few positions open for everyone), they're the horses that will have no use.
>>68358635
In a way, I agree with this. All of human progress has been based on making life easier so we can take personal and intellectual pursuits. It's only logical that our next step would be to automate all labor so that we can essentially become our own patrons using automata. However, even if it does happen in our lifetime, I don't think it's likely to happen soon enough to make a significant impact for the current generation(s).
Tbh he does have a good point. We are not ready for a mass scale automatization due to mentality. We either accept that some people will have nothing to do and we can t just kill them (as much as pol would like). A good example I heard was the possible crysis caused cy introduction of self driving cars because the drivere role will be basicly abolished and that shit isnt far ahead of us.(50 milion americans are truck cab misc drivers right now) Right now desu the capitalist aproach could acutaly harm society cause its much cheaper to have a self driving car (much safer possibly more accurate and cheaper due to eliminating the driver) and people will be literaly fired cause its cheaper to have robo cars. The eternal run for profit in TODAY S society is causing more harm than good because people try to cut costs in illegal and imoral ways (see out sourcing). We dont need insta comunism but we do need to start slowly changing the economical mentality away from capitalism.
>>68359309
no we're not.
>we'll lose our programming jobs to programs
holy shit people are retarded
>>68358635
yes machines will replace a lot of jobs in the next century
but not the jobs of people building the machines
maybe in 200 years or so machines will replace most jobs
machines will never replace the job of programmers
when they think they've built the perfect AI, someone will develop better AI. this will repeat forever or until machines destroy us.
>>68364777
Trips has spoken jackpot non the less. But self programing ais are possible.
I don't know where the "Technology increases the amount of training you need to get a job" meme started, but it needs to stop. The opposite is true historically, like how working in a foundry takes less training than being a master medieval blacksmith. Most automation today just lets a low-skilled person do what used to require a higher-skilled person, not the other way around.
>>68358635
But that's false, every time in history when something has been made to "take jobs" it has improved the life of the people around it. Not only that, but constantly, new technology creates jobs while simultaneously removing the obsolete ones.
Retards who dream of not working because they know they could never get away with their shit in a job
>>68358635
>a few scientists/investors create a tremendous increase in productivity through scientific achievements/automation
>somehow by your mere existence you are entitled to the fruits of increased productivity created by someone else
explain this
>>68360055
>EVENTUALLY societies will need to move to a more socialist model with basic income but we are a long time away from that.
Sorta like how it was gonna be another century before computers would beat people at go?
At this point trying to make any sort of prediction on how long things are gonna take to reach the point where automation can handle non-manual, non-repetitive cognitive jobs beyond "some time in the near future" is a crock of shit because no one's really that sure anymore. Pretty much all previous conservative predictions have gone out the window.
Luddites have been worrying about jobs going away since watermills.
>>68365592
>tfw the replacement of human labor with robot labor in the US will lead to an expansion of the military and conquest of new lands in asia and the non-tropical areas of africa
>tfw american empire begins genociding native populations
>>68365350
Aeld-Aeld-programming AI is still limited to their original programming. Call me the day a computer gains sentience and can produce novel ideas
>>68360055
We already have basic income, its just fragmented among all the various types of social benefits.
I dont oppose basic income because they'd basically abolish all other social benefits, so it'd actually even the field for everyone.
Unfortunately prices will probably rise because of this
>>68366830
Self-programming, god damn
>>68358635
robots will never replace a standard army one emp and your entire fighting force is offline soldiers will always have a place in the world
>>68365350
it will never be perfect though. hence there will always be a job for someone to make it better and better.
neural network AI needs GOOD, HUMAN MADE, programs to parse over in order to get better.
AI is only as good as the best programs we can make.
Imagine if we had AI that could program in the 1980s. Do you think we'd have the games we have today? Do you think we'd have VR? or do you think we'd have some badass Mario games?
i think 95% of jobs will/should be replaced by machines. but there will ALWAYS be a need for INNOVATORS and GOOD PROGRAMMERS
>minimum wage is strictly worse in light of automation
>one of the top priorities of socialists
And still, as if people need to "get used to something" before it happens
As people had to be legislated to getting used to the shitty government we have now, or any given useful technology
Fucking collectivist pieces of trash lording over others
here is the result of AI web-design:
http://goati.info
http://ascherdenton.com
Web-design is fucking retarded-easy and the company had $6million in funding and some of the best programmers/designers money can buy. They've had years to develop this.
>HURRRH AI will take programming jobs hurrrrrrrrrrrhhrrrhh
people just aren't smart enough to make AI that can replicate innovation. :\
>>68366844
No we don't
Half the reason why basic income supposedly works is because everyone gets it equally
The implementation we have is just welfare, don't confuse the two
>>68368019
Yes but we basically give welfare to everyone, so welfare wont be something only "bad" or disadvantaged people get.
People who now get welfare will get the same amount as people who're millionaires.
>>68358635
>We're weening ourselves off the old narrative that the natural state of an adult is to pay off a huge debt
But not only is that a NEW narrative (less than 30 years old) but its the SOCIALIST narrative because only economically ILLITERATE people who get themselves into debt young get lured into socialist ideas.
>>68358635
>technology will make it so that we will need to shift labor from outdated sectors to new ones
>the answer must be to make labor laws even more rigid
>that won't make unemployment skyrocket or anything nuh uh
>>68358635
College kids are fucking delusional narcissists with no understanding of how the real world works.
>>68368321
>we basically give welfare to everyone
No, and even still, not equally
>people who now get welfare will get the same as millionaires
That's a really important distinction from welfare.
It's still retarded as an idea and still creates rampant rent seeking and disincentives
>>68365350
The reason programming is a thing is because every job is different.
Very low level tier programmers that basically take a small business application and tweak it per customer would be fucked, but they're already fucked because that doesn't require an AI to do, just something that takes some input and modifies a template in a very specific way.
>>68358635
None of that is happening if whites go extinct
>>68361147
Machine learning is good at pattern recognition when it has lots of data to train on. That's it. It's got a lot of hype recently because of cool things done in that vain, but it will slow down soon for hard innovative things
This is *NOT* like the industrial revolution.
Modern automation automates COGNITIVE abilities, and once you've done that, there is NO place for humans to go.
>>68365359
Not true.
When 70% of the population were farmers they didn't upgrade farming jobs because technology progressed, they changed jobs because 70% of people didn't need to be farmers.
But besides, that doesn't apply in this situation where low-skilled jobs are easily automated (or at least will be).
Take being a barrister for example. A machine can do a barrister's job more efficiently with absolutely no human interaction required, they'll have to find a completely different job in a completely different field when they're replaced.
Now what happens when every low skilled job is automated? Where do they go to?
I don't want humans to be reduced to media/food consuming conponents
