Kek, the apologists are already coming out of their comfy houses to tell us how evil we are.
Oh boy, don't be raysist you evil white man.
>>68344616
Terrorist attacks are terrifying, yes, but equally terrifying is the right using the pain and death to fuel their hate.
>>68344616
Stand strong and trend #Only20Percent
>>68344713
>the right says something bad will happen
>it happens
>STOP USING THESE EVENTS TO FUEL YOUR HATE
>>68344616
>tweets like this destroy the world more than any terrorist could
Tell that to the families of the dead fucking beta cuck faggots. Let's get this war rolling.
>>68344866
Um, there are a billion muslims on this planet, kid. If they wanted us dead, we'd be dead. This is an act by a very small minority of extremists, who are ironically enough created by Western governments bombing the middle east.
>>68344616
>Tweets that kill
>Exploding mudshits
What must i choose, it's so hard
>>68344713
Yeah this is true. I mean did you see all these white Christians bombing shit lately? Clearly it's not a problem with Islam and muslims.
>>68344686
>misogynists
The fuck, were the attackers women or something?
>>68345021
They ALL want us dead. The issue is that most of them live in backwards desert shitholes with no escape, thankfully.
>>68344713
>Liberals never use tragedy to further their agenda's...
Kek
>>68344686
>goldstein
>>68345049
She's literally spewing out her subconscious thought for a media blackout on all Islamic terror
>>68346044
>it's not a coincidence that women can't do anything without men
>>68346136
T R U M P E D
R
U
M
P
E
D
>>68345418
https://twitter.com/RudawEnglish/status/712225964911108097
ISIS
>>68344616
This is disgusting even for a liberal. Thank god people are waking up to this garbage.
>>68345049
>Muslim commits terrorism
>"Oh noes now people will hate Muslims more"
GOOD.
>>68346136
literally spat my drank
>>68346394
shieeettt nigga
is anyone surprised?
>This will only create more Islamaphobia
GEE
IT'S ALMOST AS IF ISLAM ISN'T A GOOD THING AND THAT MAYBE IT SHOULD BE FEARED AS A VIOLENT IDEOLOGY
That's the problem with these fucks. They don't analyze evidence and then come to conclusions, no. They come to conclusions first and then try to bend the evidence around it.
>All religions should be respected and treated with tolerance
That is their conclusion. They cannot possibly imagine their conclusion being untrue, no matter how much evidence is thrown at them.
>>68345048
>mfw I choose exploding tweets.
>>68344713
Its not hate, its acknowledging a pattern
>>68345021
Sure, eventually. Meanwhile if we had any balls and wanted them gone, it'd be done in an afternoon.
>>68344713
I feel the same about the left and parading children around to call for gun control after a national tragedy.
>>68345021
Define small minority
This post is evidance that only people in 4chan are delusional about racewar..thank god for white liberals
>>68347208
>>68344686
clearly people are blaming women for the attacks
>>68347124
Every Muslim person she knows is just a westernized Christian in a hijab.
>>68344616
Tweets are terrifying.
>>68347208
Shitposting's too obvious, mr proxy
>>68345021
What you mean is if they wanted us dead, they would have to start a war, which would end with their absolute annihilation. They want us dead, they also realize it is not possible through conventional means. You're right, it's only a minority that think the way forwards is through terrorism, the rest realise they can exploit our eternal white guilt and take control from within.
Why is it that women are behind 80% of these posts? Is being inherently cognitive dissonant in their DNA?
Imagine a world without muslim
>>68347683
That wouldn't be nearly as exciting. Who would provide all the edge of your seat terrorist attack entertainment every few months?
>>68347445
Hard for you to believe that i am more educated then you are and living is somalia with a decent internet isnt..well too bad mr van dyke but its all true.
>>68347833
mormons
>>68347124
>if that's true explain my feelings
>>68345021
>there are a billion muslims on this planet, kid. If they wanted us dead, we'd be dead.
An American made ICBM can deliver a nuclear war head to any city on Earth in approximately 30 minutes. 48% of the worlds Muslim population lives in cities. If we wanted them dead, there wouldn't be a billion Muslims left.
Supposedly wanting to prevent such atrocities from occurring is "making political capital out of atrocities".
>>68347683
There'd be world peace
>>68347208
WHY IS IT ALLOWED FOR LIBERALS TO MAKE TERRIBLE EVENTS LIKE SHOOTIGS TO BE POLITICAL BUT CRITIZE CONSERVATIVES FOR MAKING LITERAL TERRORISM THAT COULD BE STOPPED POLITICAL?
KILL ALL LIBERALS
>KILL ALL LIBERALS
KILL ALL LIBERALS
>KILL ALL LIBERALS
>tfw get to be a cool racist
>Apologists: "Shhh man don't tweet that shit or they'll blow us up too"
>>68347937
>Somalian intellectuals
Sure Habboon
Kek, my boss is Iraqi and Christian. Arab Christians are redpilled as fuck, they dont hold back on describing the muslim menace. He said its a suicide for a nation to tolerate Islam, they are all trained in mosques how to lie to nonmuslims
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslims.
>>68345418b
since when is a religion a race?
>>68344616
>>68344866
the pen is mightier than a sword ,but this guy is a cuck whom wish to censor opions that do not fall inline with his
>>68345021
Lmao they do want us dead, only thing stopping them is their average IQ of 65.
>>68344686
>exploiting brussel for own agenda
>>68345049
>exploiting brussel for own agenda
>>68345418
>implying that islamic immigrants are a race
>>68345704
Actually reasonable.
>>68345842
That is true, but shutting down any conversation about the religion/ideals of those attackers is not helping.
>>68346136
Nice reply.
>>68347124
Michael using a good argument against all that racism calling while Lauren is using the "But look at those muslims! They are not commiting a crime right now"-argument.
>>68348411
too easy
All in all: Twitter is cancer.
>>68345049
lol
islamophobia is the thing to fear
not muslims randomly blowing up people
>>68345021
No we wouldn't unlike them our civilization has advanced we can wipe a major city off the map with one strike, while they are still fucking goats.
As far as that small minority b.s. only a small minority of Germans were actual nazi's and we know who that went. the majority were irrelevant just like the supposed majority of peaceful muslims are.
>>68348581
Their community doesn't do shit about it neither, they just silently "tolerate" it
>>68348790
>ISIS claims the attack
>can we find out who did it before blaming anyone
>reasonable
Gas dich selb, Hans.
>>68348411
They are only thinking about their own interest by killing themselves.
Wew lad what logic.
>>68344686
These same fucking hypocrites blame ALL whites when a rare case of one white doing something stupid occurs, yet refuse to blame Islam for Muslims.
Their blindness is literally killing the west.
>>68347937
What have you done to improve your society lately, you know your country is absolutely destroyed right?
>>68344686
>goldstein
>we need more rapefugees
I can't feel sorry for Europe. let'em in and let'em blow themselves up in droves. I don't care anymore.
>>68348983
It is always reasonable to take a step back and reflect. Wild "call to action" shit or blame games don't help anybody.
In addition: I have no fucking clue how much information was available at the time the tweet was made. Sure the most logical thing to do is to assume that it was an ISIS attack, but taking a step back and reason is never wrong.
>>68345021
>Religion of pieces
>Making threats
Yeah, sure is peaceful. They define their peacefulness by saying we would all be dead if they wanted us dead.
Kek
>>68349426
Best one so far.
>>68344686
everytime
>>68347208
Ayy dhaco
>>68345418
>If you've already blamed what's happened in #Brussels on the people who did it, then you are a racist.
I guess being racist is the correct action then.
Already on it
>>68349270
Just kill yourself.
>>68344686
what a fucking idiot.
>>68345049
Rightly so. She's so deluded.
>>68344686
Refugees not welcomed. Fuck off.
>>68349683
>>68349683
>CNN
The fuck?
>>68345842
No, I will claim the crusades. Proudly.
Think of all the trouble we would have saved if we'd succeeded.
>>68349683
sounds to me like ann coulter criticizes the media who are blaming all the others except the attackers.
thumbs up for ann
>>68349270
We know who is to blame: ISIS and by extension Islam. Since we cannot know which muslims will be bombing us and which wont, the only solution is blind hatred. Pogroms. Ethnic cleansing.
You can say a lot about Hitler, but he achieved one thing: Jews and Gypsies are almost non-existent in northern Europe.
If it takes WWIII to remove kebab and plunge Europe into war, so be it.
>>68351207
>Jews ... are almost non-existent in northern Europe.
If only.
>>68344686
>as if they don't hope every shooting is a white male so they can use it to further their agenda
>>68351207
>Jews and Gypsies are almost non-existent in northern Europe
Gypsies aren't that rare over here. Even in smaller cities.
I've never met a jew in my life though.
They're no longer being naive or throwing bants, they are deliberately colluding with the enemy to further weaken the will of anyone they can reach, while attacks continue to happen every day. Across the world, two dozen attacks in two dozen countries in 30 days.
From this point on, any leftist that is seen shifting the blame or lessening the severity of the attacks is deliberately colluding with Islamist expansionism.
>LEFTISTS ARE COLLUDING WITH THE ENEMY
LEFTISTS ARE COLLUDING WITH THE ENEMY
>LEFTISTS ARE COLLUDING WITH THE ENEMY
LEFTISTS ARE COLLUDING WITH THE ENEMY
>LEFTISTS ARE COLLUDING WITH THE ENEMY
LEFTISTS ARE COLLUDING WITH THE ENEMY
>>68345418
See? This kind of mentality is what is driving more and more people to conservative and right-wing parties in Europe.
If I'm a racist, might as well go all the way, right? Fucking dumbass pieces of cuntshit.
>>68351207
>You can say a lot about Hitler, but he achieved one thing: Jews and Gypsies are almost non-existent in northern Europe.
WELL. they might have been non-existent in the 50s.
BUT THEN...
>>68344713
Violence begets violence. Grow up liberal faerie. This all started with the ottoman empire. This needs to end this century or it never will.
>>68350125
ooooh shieeeet
>>68351662
Would you rather have gypsies or muslims?
In Btuselles everyone I knew shit on gypsies and I took that as a sign that you can yet away with not being pc, then I got shit on for pointing out that there were a lot of groups of muslims who were always loud and rude talking to each other.
>>68351428
The womam are in panic the jews are standing like jews always stand , they know what is up
The white loathing liberals and leftist jews are close to ushering in an Orwellian hell of a society and we need to organize face to face and stop it.
>>68346177
Its a troll
>>68351582
I love being American. I can just be right about everything all the time without catering to PC morons.
>>68351428
Oy vey THEY KNOW
>>68347937
TOPPPEST KEK must be an australian
>>68345418
>muslims and immigrants
>races
Why are liberals such retards?
>>68346136
Why do muslims and sycophants still use the Crusades as a defense for Islamic extremist? It's maddening
Boy how much of a poor blue collar sheep do you to be to think drums is going to protect you from scary brown people. Lmao
>>68352000
Gypsies do a lot of stupid shit, but they don't blow you up, no business there. They're integrated into society in their own thieving way. Nobody likes them and they're ok with it.
>>68345842
I am proud of the Crusades.
>>68351486
You guys are an exception because you took in the Jews during the war.
As for us...
>jews in the netherlands in 1939: 118,000+
>jews in the netherlands in 2015: 5,500.
Highscore, baby!
>>68345021
>This is an act by a very small minority of extremists
Educate yourself, Reddit
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg
Post more twitter screenshots, I want to get mad.
you are the same as mass murderers.
>>68345418
>don't blame this on the people who did it
CAN'T. MAKE. THIS. SHIT. UP.
>>68351934
This is golden.
>>68344616
I'm glad twitter is bleeding money and users. Soon the only people who will use it will be regressive leftist, where they can all validate each others bullshit, like one giant safe space. No doubt they'll get bored and leave too, when there's no one but other virtue signallers, you know they're full of shit, because you're doing it too. Like when you were little kids and would take a sip of beer, then you and your friends would pretend to be drunk.
>>68353157
How? How am I a part of that problem? Do I blow people up? I'd love to hear that cuck explain his reasoning. I bet he was so smug when he wrote that post, thinking it sounds so smart and liberal.
The Gypsies will just steal everything not nailed down. And even if it is nailed down, they'll find a way to rip it out and steal it--like when those Gypsies stole some fucking train tracks, just to prove they could (what the fuck are you gonna do with bunch of heavy, shitty, nigh-worthless scrap metal?)
meanwhile muslims durka durka and either behead you or explode
i think the thieves are the lesser evil
>>68353411
He just won't stop. Loving every laugh.
>>68353443
His reasoning is obvious: poor little mudslimes who dindu nuffin get oppressed by the evil white man so they have no choice but to blow us up. If you are "islamophobe" (even though there's nothing irrational with fearing a realistic death threat), you are the reason why they're bombing people!
>>68350125
lel
>>68347937
nooga dooga ro nooo too dooga nooga
>>68348411
>suicide bombing
>self interest
pick only one
>>68351207
>Gyppos ore non-existent in Northern Europe
You have never been to South Wales, have you boyo?
>>68345418
OF. COURSE. I. AM.
>>68354208
Let me know when the SS had a chance to fix your shit, Brittain.
>stupid fucking Anglo
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>68345418
YES.AND.I.AM.FUCKING.PROUD.
>>68353157
>If you express a fear of suicide bomber muslims then that's just as bad as blowing your self up!
Jesus christ
>>68345049
A phobia implies an irrational fear of something
Kek
>>68354634
Fucking this
>>68354490
>Aryan poofs
>Fixing anything
So Trump just won the election and Brexit is definitely happening now.
People going to the polls today are only going to be thinking of one thing, mudshit terrorism. The only candidate tough on mudshits is Donald Trump.
>>68345418
>just because these people did this thing doesn't justify being mad at the people who did this thing
oh boy, I sure do enjoy liberals! can I get some AYKMs in here?
>>68344616
these stupid sheep are all ready to give up our rights and freedoms and he probably doesn't know why
>>68345418
>YOU ARE A RACIST
mfw
try and stop me, kikes
>>68354880
You got more Jews and lost your empire after WWII. We removed 90% of our jews.
Who did better, you figure?
>>68355196
Are there primaries today?
>>68353799
Gee that sounds alot like victim blaming people who are raped.
>>68355450
utah and arizona
>>68355450
Yes. Arizona, which he is already heavily favored to win. As well as Utah which Cruz was heavily favored to win.
Last 2 times there were terrorist attacks, Paris and San Bernardino, Trump shot up both times.
>>68354923
Id like another attack just to cement our position, but yeah, its looking a bit better for the out campaign. My inner pessimist still tellsme we will stay in mein reich europa.
>>68354634
underrated post, bumping for this
Ha-ha holy fuck. These people....
>>68350753
kek
>>68351934
it is indeed a art.
>>68355352
I think less and less people car about being called racist now. It's losing its effect
This looks to be a JEW mossad attack to try to make the world hate muslims.
#NOTALLMUSLIMS
>>68344616
>Finnegan
beware the eternal Hibernian
>>68356029
when you keep using a buzzword every single day for every single thing you don't like it, it tend to lose its meaning
kinda like autism
Mass shooting they want to talk about guns and banning them right away. But with a terrorist attack they want you to pray and think of the victims first, not the real issue.
Left wing liberals who live in a delusional world only defend Islam. Judaism, Christianity they couldn't care less. It's a fight to see who is more PC.
Merkel has blood on her hands, hope that bitch gets what she deserves.
>>68356243
Has cuck lost all meaning yet?
>>68346843
Good post
>>68356342
even with a terrorist attack, theyll try to take your guns away anyway here. EU cunts are trying to ban semi auto rifles all over europe, even in fucking switzerland of all places.
>>68344686
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj9dA6E3fJw
Guess it's time for Starkey to BTFO her again
>>68356475
give it another year
it already lost its meaning on the huge boards like /v/ and /a/ because edgy teens wanted another buzzword to use
>>68356342
conveniently forgets that it was neocons wingnuts that started these wars and cheered them on. and now it's the fault of liberals you can't do even more
stupid sister fuckers
>>68355387
at least we had an empire to lose. not just a few shitty islands.
>>68351582
lel le ron paul meme as a means of memeing in favor of donald trump xD
le !
>>68344686
There is no horror that Muslims could commit that this stupid woman would not somehow blame on white Christian men.
>>68344713
how much would it be worth to the mic to have belgium to join nato? billions?
>>68352637
you shouldn't be, they were terrible and very ineffective. There was only one truely succesful one
>>68357234
>yfw Scooting Sven is the lead developer
>>68357454
next level trolling
>>68345021
>1bn
>vs 6bn
>implying the 6bn would lose
Besides, how is this supposed to be an argument that defends muslims? I know this post in particular is bait, but there are people who actually believe this. It's like the fucktards who think that "the government outguns you" is a valid argument in favor of gun control.
>>68357234
is that real?
>>68354490
>>68354880
>>68355387
>>68357040
it's not really the time for this guys
there are other problems to think about
>>68347937
Post proof, proxyfag
>>68345021
Lol 10% slimes vs 90% non muslim are you kiddinng me
>>68345418
If that's what I am, that's what I am.
But reality is on my side.
>>68349426
Top notch
>>68355242
>My ability to see past propaganda
Fucking kill this bitch
>>68345021
Bullshit. The only reason we're not dead is because they don't have nukes.
And this isn't because anyone bombed the middle east. It's because Saddam isn't around anymore to burn these fuckers in a pot of acid and keep them in line.
>>68357234
>>68357644
Garfield Kart is my new favourite one. Cam't get into MoonMan at all.
>>68358340
you ain't estii
gtfo
>>68355242
>I'm not from America
>This means I know America better than Americans
>>68345418
>racist
When will people stop using this no-meaning word
all this attack makes me think of is all the apologists here whether troll or not that would talk about the "religion of peace" and how it must sting when their own monkeys attack again.
OMG SO PROGRESSIVE XDDDDD
The Fedora Bomber came to Earth in the form of Kek.
>>68358619
As if being a racist is the worst thing you could be.
>>68358744
Racist is just code for nationalist.
we should get #yesallmuslims trending
>>68345418
He's somewhat right. The people at fault here are the governments for being stupid enough to destroy their continent.
This has nothing to do with Islam, this is the result of letting in millions of unskilled and undocumented immigrants from a very foreign country and allowing them to commit crimes at will. Meanwhile, Muslims in the USA are less violent, more educated, and more wealthy than the national average. That's why I disagree with Trump on a Muslim ban, we should just restrict all unskilled immigration and obviously refugees.
If there's anyone who should be condemned it's the retards who opened your borders.
>>68356935
what war is being waged in Belgium besides jihad?
what war was it that caused the Mumbai attacks?
what about Canada's attack on the capitol? what war was it then?
>>68358776
It would fucking have to be, at this point.
Don't like illegal migrants, regardless of race, because you want your country to do the best and be the best and have the best?
Racist.
Don't like people who bomb other people for no reason, in businesses, killing women and children at random?
Racist.
Don't like unfettered migration diluting your culture into a slurry or everything but not enough of anything to be distinct or your own?
Racist.
>>68347270
>black people don't owe white progressives anything
Other than their freedom.
social media was a mistake
>>68359060
your terrorists are everywhere now
>>68358662
>Liberals never use tragedy to further their agenda's
>>68344616
>>68358898
>Meanwhile, Muslims in the USA are less violent, more educated, and more wealthy than the national average.
That's rapidly changing with chain migration. Look at Hamtramck, MI or Dearborn. First generation might be wealthy, but then they sponsor their unemployed family to come over here and they self-segregate in fucking European-style ghettos.
>>68358662
And then they call us evil when people like this exist.
I just cannot wrap my head around these liberals defending this, I just want to dissect one of their brains and to understand how they think.
>>68359159
go back further. humans were a mistake
>>68357438
Belgium had been in NATO for nearly 70 years.
related to 'fucking white male'
>>68355742
>>68354923
Really sorry to spoil your party, but; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVGPEaorSuA
>>68358898
Correct, the blame totally doesn't lie with the people who actually carried out the attack or anything
>>68349055
They don't seem to understand the difference between race and religion is a yuge factor
Race: gives you the color of your skin not your culture
Religion: gives you culture regardless of skin color
>>68345021
Haha, Ahmed no. Even if the US only used the niggers in their Army they'd still fucking murder each and every one of you if they wanted.
Numbers don't mean a thing.
>>68353157
>>68359527
in related news
>>68359260
delusion presonified
>>68344713
>policymaker wants to put in place things that would protect country because of the possibility of terror attacks
>countries without any protection are attacked
>not allowed to say anything about it because it would hurt the feelings of people who get fucked by their governments even though it's Trump's fucking job as president to act based on current events
>>68345049
>34 people dead and nearly 200 wounded
>oh no those poor Muslims might get offended from the backlash :'(
Jesus fucking Christ
I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE. WHY ARE YOU GUYS HATING MUSLIMS THEAY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG BIGOTS
>>68344686
If there was a competition for the Biggest Most Egregious Cunt on the Planet it's hard to tell who'd win between this fucking nitwit and the poison piper that is Jessica Valenti.
>>68359260
>>68360000
Don't you realize, Mr. Quads?
When you insult the Religion of Peace™, they get so angry that they have no choice but to blow things up.
So if you offend them, your death is your own fault.
>>68360000
nice dubs
>>68359520
you're right my mistake. two more countries are thinking of joining . sweden and another
>>68359859
>Anyone who fears terrorists because of terrorism is just as bad as the terrorists!
>>68356029
yeah, when you call all men rapists and all white people racist, those words cease to have the meaning they started with and instead become something else.
>>68349055
KEKEK
>>68359527
>if you have sympathy for people being bombed by muslims AGAIN, you are part of the problem
wonder why belgium, nato headquarters?
>>68353711
#AlmostAllMuslimsAreTerrorists
>>68360583
Hey, maybe he doesn't want people praying for the victims. Instead, he wants them BOMBING THE SHIT OUT OF ISIS.
I want to believe.
>>68360000
If you are getting quads in 2016, you are part of the problem
Glad to see libfags getting a healthy dose of the bantz this morning, but unfortunately its at the expense of whites who died to yet another mudslime terror attack.
Jokes aren't going to save white European nations. Only a crusade against Islam will.
>>68358077
Get rid of Corbyn and pull off a Brexit and we can talk.
My friend works at Heathrow airport, UK. He said they had recently been briefed that a terrorist attack on an EU airport was imminent, but was told never to mention it because it might 'raise tensions'.
>>68348139
>russians
>north koreans
>niggers
It'd be a start.
>>68344686
Literally who?
>>68348273
i'm with you there
>>68360583
To be fair they brought it on themselves when they took all those mudslimes, I have no sympathy for them either
>>68358340
notEstonia is right. You took out Saddam, you created ISHIT
>>68344616
> a tweet is more dangerous than a bomb
>>68344616
Well at least they're consistent in thinking gay internet shit is more harmful than real world violence. May they all drown in polar bear piss.
>>68355242
>my ability to see past propaganda
>hates trump
Kek. You can't make this shit up
>>68345021
>who are ironically enough created by Western governments bombing the middle east.
The West also bombed Korea and Vietnam, but I don't really recall Korean and the Vietnamese refugees/immigrants having difficulties living peacefully among Westerners.
>>68345418
>Islam
>a race
>>68350884
She's redpilled as fuck. So redpilled that I'm pretty sure she is against women's voting.
On another note: Here is a book you should all read. It's about how Lebanon went from peaceful friendly western-style country, to a complete shithole ruled by muzzies.
My /pol/ suggested reading for the day!
>>68348273
USEFUL IDIOTS
no one wants to say who backs these terrorist
why would muslims want to make the people of the countries they live in, hate them?
cui bono
>>68344686
>fcknzs
what did new zealanders do?
>>68354923
>Poland in green
Delete this
This is why I hate liberals.
Brussels gets blown the fuck up by the religion of peace
>#notallmuslims
mentally ill persons shoots people in USA
>#banallguns #gunownersevil
Forget your happy westernized Muslim neighbor. The majority want Sharia law and would stone you Ina heartbeat for insulting "muh profet". Wake the fuck up!
>>68345021
>Um
Stopped reading there.
>>68345021
post like this give us cancer
>>68362361
more of the same will solve this
brain dead
>>68362361
go play with your lil sister
>>68344686
>attack individuals
I thought we were generalizing the people as a whole
>>68346044
What is san Bernardino
>>68362361
>>68351582
EUROPEANS BTFO
WHO WANTS TO PRETEND LIKE WE ARE OVERREACTING NEXT?
HAVE A BOMBING RETARDS
>>68345049
Never mind the fact that people died today, won't someone please think of the poor Muslims!?
>>68352447
Muslims always jelly of white crusades. Cause they know how much more effective they are at it but didn't do it
