Why should it not be raised to $15 an hour?
I'll bite. Say you make a little over $15 an hour. A nurse in a lower income state makes about $17.
So they raise minimum wage and retarded high schoolers suddenly make 15. Over double what they made before.
Obviously you have to get a raise too. If you don't it doesn't make sense to have your high stress high knowledge base and high risk job.
How much of a raise do you deserve? Less than $7.75 and you are effectively being paid closer to minimum wage. =$7.75 means everyone ends up the same and prices of all goods end up increasing to the point where everything is double.
In summary: the best thing that can happen is everyone stays just as rich as they are now compared to minimum.
The other option is everyone except minimum wage workers take a pay cut. The middle class gets poorer and the rich stay the same.
>>68257118
>If poor people got more money, it just wouldn't be fair!!!1!!
It'd be nice if the nurse got a raise too, but there's no reason to screw anyone out of a LIVING WAGE
>>68256233
Why should it not be raised to $115 an hour?
maybe not 15 but it has to get raised
>>68256233
Look at your nations economy and you'll know why
>>68257332
>willingly take job at agreed upon price
>complain you get paid what you agreed upon
Wew
>>68256233
When they stop fucking up my burgers, they can earn $15 an hour.
>>68257451
Kill yourself commie
>>68257332
The economy doesn't work like that though. You can't just pass a law telling people to pay $15 per hour and have no negative consequences.
>>68257332
No one has the right to earn a living wage.
>>68256233
>we are worth more
Sometimes I am happy when more jobs go to China, Mexico, and robots. These people will get the leftist sharing they want on a global scale.
>>68257506
>Can't afford to live
>Have to take any job I can find
>Better not complain if I still cannot afford to live
>>68257332
>but there's no reason to screw anyone out of a LIVING WAGE
In an ideal world, you're right.
raising the minimum wage substantially upsets the middle wages.
Why work hard in a place that has an emotional, mental, and physical toll when you could just as easily, say, be a janitor and make a living wage?
The gap between inflation and minimum wage raises has become so drastic that to fix it in a system would actually cause more problems than to let a minority of unskilled workers starve to death.
>>68256233
>We are worth more.
>What is your job?
>Burger Flipper.
No you are not.
>>68256233
Hyperinflation
Rise in cost of: housing, goods, services
>>68257686
>>Better not complain if I still cannot afford to live
Maybe you should move somewhere cheaper, or rethink what "afford to live" implies.
>>68257686
Try moving outside the city.
Try making yourself a more valuable employee than some retarded high schooler.
>>68257506
this
my company treats its employees awesome as far as pay and benefits go, yet people were pissed when another sector of the company got a bigger bonus than we did
I'm like, was an agreed upon bonus amount part of your employment agreement you niggers?
These are men 20 years older than me, and they sounded like a bunch of whiny babies. It's fucking EXTRA money and you have the gall to bitch about it.
>>68256233
And then standards of living require 30 dollars an hour and so on and so forth...
>>68256233
>Why should it not be raised to $15 an hour?
>Make $16 after working 4 years and doing shit others couldn't do
>Most reliable person outside core management, go to guy for everyone
>$15 minimum wage would mean the purchasing power of my $16 just went to shit
>Job wouldn't magically pay me $20+ an hour
I moved to another state cause the one my job was in was too expensive, and now my commute is 52mins one way.
>>68256233
Why should it be $15?
Why not $13.50 or $20?
Do you not realize what kind of impact doubling the federal minimum wage will have? I don't deny that 7.25 is a slave wage, but 15 is swinging too far in the other direction. Why not start at 10.25 and work from there?
>>68257606
gr8 b8 m8 8/8
>>68257545
I recognize those consequences but the benefits certainly outweigh them
It's not even hard to live at minimum wage.
Millenials just keep making bad decisions and keep spending their money on dumb shit.
>>68256233
Because that would increase the cost of LITERALLY EVERY OTHER THING IN THE NATION. You fucking children have 0 understanding of economics.
>>68257497
???
It's one of the best in existence of mankind. Poor here is middle class in the US. That is with oil at $20 - 40.
>>68256233
Inflation
>>68256233
If they are worth more why don't they go out and start their own business up and pay themselves whatever they believe them to be worth?
>>68256233
It definitely should be raised. Because that will make every worker who is producing less than $15/h out of work. And those people are mostly immigrants.
So if you want to destroy jobs for the bottom class of society, increase the minimum wage.
>>68257332
>LIVING WAGE
What is that?
You don't need the internet, 200 channels, a 50" TV, or a smartphone to live.
>>68257118
How about the rich pay for it, genius
>>68257698
Janitors do make a living wage and often belong to unions which greatly benefit their lives. The janitors where I work get free tuition after 2 years of service. If they're still employed when their children are old enough to matriculate it's gratis.
I work a boring desk job in the nutrition department, based janitors are based. Considering the cost of tuition and the fact they make $20hr I'd say they're living better lives than most of the posters ITT.
http://www.ciachef.edu/tuition-ny/
>>68256233
Nothing is stopping them from unionizing....
>>68256233
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4SIEl1j8e4
Sowell on the subject.
It's not enough that I should succeed; others must suffer
>>68256233
15 is too much, last figures i saw to account for inflation was 11 so lets start there and reassess yearly
>>68258040
>gr8 b8 m8 8/8
Where does it say "living wage is a right" or anything like that?
>>68257672
Moving jobs out to China, Mexico etc is neoliberalism, not leftism. Both are stinking shit, but taste differently
How come y'all don't realize that this would seriously boost the economy as way more people would suddenly have a lot more buying power?
>>68256233
Because there are lots of jobs that aren't worth $15 an hour. And many places cant handle a min wage that high, outside of major cities. You wouldn't understand, being from a place where everyone is stacked due to oil and old money
>>68256233
Maybe, just maybe, severely raising the cost of Labour will lead to way more automatisation and higher unemployment.
>>68258042
Were they getting paid more they'd just spend more on dumb shit. Say they'd buy an overpriced 70$ shirt instead of a 40$. They'd end up being as poor. It doesn't matter how much they earn. Just like how niggers make millions and still end up broke.
>>68258280
The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness dipshit
Why don't we raise minimum wage to six billion
>>68258161
Then you take away everything that made them rich on the first place, they won't be able to invest that money in shit that keeps them rich so they'll become middle classers in no time, like in Venezuela.
once there's no money to take away from them to pay for your ridiculous rises over jobs that add literally no value in the creations of goods and services what are you gonna do? where are you gonna get all the money you promised?
printing money?
>>68258385
He's right, you know.
A living wage is not a part of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
If your "happiness" is living with luxuries, then it's your right to PURSUE it, not to have it guaranteed.
>>68256233
Because food prices would be too high and the dollar would lose its value
>>68258042
This. Holy fuck. If you make minimum wage just get a roommate, don't get the latest iPhone, buy cheap clothing and never eat out. It's not hard.
>>68257332
>Living wage
Do you have any idea what a living wage is, you spoiled commie faggot? Where I come from you're lucky if your full time job affords you a shanty rent.
>>68258159
But you do need shelter, which is exorbitantly priced. And food. And you need to pay bills. And many people working minimum wage are in debt, for larger purchases ie furniture or cars
>>68258385
>pursuit of happiness
>>68258292
How come you don't realize that the number on the dollar means shit, and the productivity of those people haven't changed one bit, no matter what you do.
How come you don't realize that doing this will cause a rise of prices, which is what happened in the past, therefore creating a cruelty tax against the poor?
How come you don't realize that you will be creating even more dindus because you keep making them unmarketable because it is not realistic to pay some nigger from high school that much money, because his employment is too volatile?
>Mfw all minimum wage does is make unqualified people unemployable and replaced with automation.
You fuckheads who want guberment to force people to give you more money just get fucked over.
>>68258510
>>68258042
What if you have kids?
>>68258385
Still don't see living wage anywhere
>>68258385
>life
People don't need 15 an hour to live if they're not retards
>liberty
Would be restricted with socialist policies
>pursuit of happiness
They have the word "pursuit " for a reason. The government doesn't owe anyone instant happiness
>>68258535
maybe you should have more than a worthless skill set
i think it's fucked up that america is now a service economy, but those jobs are still meant for teenagers and the retired guy who wants out of the house a couple days a week
Why not make it a hundred?
when unskilled labor hits $15 expect rents to rise and everything else
dumb fucking unskilled highschool dropouts
>>68258579
Tfw these things are taking over all of the McDonalds in my city
>>68258385
>pursuit
you should know fucking commie, that pursuit means you should look for it, no one should guarantee it to you.
the fact that those jobs are shit it's a good thing, because encourages people to stay away from them and creates incentive to offer better payed jobs with for people with higher skills.
of course commies with their african studies degree wouldn't know that because they add virtually no value to society unless they work as bureaucrats.
>>68258493
living wage isn't luxuries friend
>>68256233
Why not raise it to a $1,000,000 an hour so nobody is poor anymore?
>>68258615
Only the greediest people have kids without having the resources in the first place.
>>68258615
Probably should have been more responsible if you have kids and only make minimum wage. Not my problem, and if the kid is really suffering because of your stupidity and inability to make money, the state can take the kid and find a better home.
>>68256233
high wage for menial work is poison for job stability. Instead, you should campaign for lower wages in the upper class.
BEEP BEEP
WILL WORK FOR MAINTENANCE
DON'T TURN ME OFF MASTER RONALND MCDONALD
>>68258535
>for larger purchases ie furniture or cars
If you don't have the money, and know you won't, why even buy that shit? There is used furniture and cars.
Get a roommate or two.
Shop around for cheap prices.
Asians and Indians do all that shit then save enough money to buy gas stations and other businesses.
>>68257332
How do small businesses afford to pay $15/hr? Plus fast food places are mostly run by entrepreneurs. So it is not like Ronald McDonald is signing these pay checks.
>>68258492
Maybe if people weren't living paycheck to mouth they could actually do some investing to, you fucking moron
>>68256233
The $15 shit is literally meme magic from 3-4 years ago.
>>68258493
There's this context that that luxury is a necessary part modern life for people who were born in the 80s and 90s. These people are now in the 20s and 30s, and their life has always been about luxuries whether that would be a new computer, iphone, or what have you as an essential part of life. It isn't just about food, shelter, and a place to shit like it was 50 or 100 year ago.
>>68258823
Indeed, it is.
You can make no wages and are still graciously afford assistance due to social programs.
To have your own money with which to sustain yourself and invest as you please, that is a luxury.
To not understand that, well, I'm envious of your gentle breeze through life so far.
>>68258830
Keynesian Economics, the motto.
>>68258040
>I recognize those consequences but the benefits certainly outweigh them
Consequences in most cases completely counter the benefits
>B: More money for people to spend
>C: Inflation causes things to cost more. (More money = Higher demand for products + Increased production cost for those products = Inflation)
>C: People at the bottom lose their jobs to other employees who are given a larger workload/outsourced/business who hired them shutting down
>C: Higher wages means many businesses cannot afford to compete with already established, powerful companies. Monopolies pop up everywhere and more BIG EVIL CORPORATIONS form.
>>68258836
>>68258840
What if they were raped by their redneck papa and abortion is haram or something according to their belief.
>>68256233
You know why most millennials are such utter worthless cunts? They have NEVER had a job in their life.
Why? All the influx all over the western world of illegals and cheap labor. So instead of working at a fast food restaurant or pulling weeds on the weekend you have those jobs taken by illegal aliens.
So without the ability to have jobs they are wholly dependent on mom and dad. It is perfect training to be a slave to the government.
They don't understand hard work and seeing how much the government takes out of their salary.
So they don't see all the high levels of taxation as theft for their hard work. So they have no problem with bigger and bigger government programs that benefit them because they have never had to clean the grease traps, never had to pull the weeds, clean the gutters and bus the tables. All low level jobs that you start off with and then move on from there learning a work ethic.
So that is why these people like to say "we need a higher minimum wage" for low entry level jobs because they have zero concept of what runs a business and the expenses of a business.
But they do me a favor in pushing this. I already have seen robotic kiosks where you can order and buy and receive your food (or grocery items) without having to worry if one of these losers is spitting in your food or wiping it on the floor or butt crack.
So thanks!
>>68258794
>Mexicans teaching Americans on how to run things
alrighty then
>>68258155
What a fucking retarded opinion.
I can guarantee you that Mexican immigrants work harder than any native born Americans, just because Mexicans come from an environment of harder working ethics. They are #1 in the world in hours worked per year.
It would most definitely NOT be the immigrants that start losing their jobs.
>>68258966
>It isn't just about food, shelter, and a place to shit like it was 50 or 100 year ago.
No, it still is about those exact things.
It's only in the mind of the liberals that the "context" has changed; And most people aren't willing to indulge them in their delusions.
>>68258976
Why does higher demand for products = increased production costs?
>>68258973
>i don't know what keynesianism is
Actually that would be a good way to spark the runaway inflation all the central banks want.
I'm OK with this if they raise the interest on 10 year bonds to 8%. I've got a bunch of cash and nothing good to do with it.
>>68256233
Minimum wage is already meant to be the 'livable' wage. Livable does not include your fucking weed, internet, vidya games and smart phone.
>>68259017
If abortion is legal, that's her business and the government shouldn't have to support her just because of her beliefs.
If abortion is illegal, then it's actually a government issue.
>>68259017
lol
>>68256233
Why do Liberals refuse to start their own fast-food businesses? Just start your own and raise your employee wage to $15 per hour as the starting wage. From there, you can test out your policies and be an experiment for all to examine. If you can keep costs low and competitive, then you have proven that you can maintain a wage at that low of a cost.
>>68258525
And what kind of jobs do your parents work to afford internet in your basement?
You can't compare apples to oranges either. USA > Brazil
>>68258493
Living wage != right to luxuries
I don't know where you live but working 7.25 full time isn't enough to survive. Besides, a higher minimum wage would help close the wage gap, and wouldn't create nearly as much inflation as you idiots cry. It's been raised in the past without much hassle.
Ideally minimum wage laws need to be given the axe. The cheaper the labor, the more labor an employer can purchase, therefore lower unemployment. Low end jobs may not pay much but that is what promotions are for plus everyone is given a free education up through high school, where valuable technical skills can be learned.
The "gibmedats" generation needs a swift kick in the ass.
Sick it libtards.
>>68259149
Gotta pump out more goods in order to keep up with demand
>>68259289
Yeah but if there's more demand and more is being sold won't the profits from the increased sales counter/balance that?
>>68258280
A living wage doesn't mean you live comfortably with a home, car, iPhone, computer etc. It means you can afford a roof over your head (shared with roommates) and food in your stomach and use cheap public transit to get around. It is nothing more than the basic necessities.
>>68259278
>everyone is given a free education up through high school, where valuable technical skills can be learned
not in america
>>68258559
How come you don't realize it really didn't cause that much inflation? Certainly not a cruelty tax.
How come you don't realize that by being racist you already played yourself out of this?
>>68259234
I guess accidents happens.
Most economists go with 33% as a rule of thumb. That is, if most people paying more than 33% of your income a month towards housing (rent or mortage) then the economy starts to weaken dramatically
In some places, the minimum wage really should be $15/h, like NYC or Chicago, because the cost of living really is that high
Some places would be fine keeping their current minimum wages. The problem with the conversation at the national level is that one size does not fit all
However, we typically associate a strong minimum wage as a marker of a strong economy
>>68258943
>Maybe if people weren't living paycheck to mouth they could actually do some investing to, you fucking moron
I guess you picture rich people as having a huge vault filled with Cash and gold.
every single finantially independent person knows this, MOTIONLESS MONEY IS DEBT
if you have 1000 USD stored and don't invest them in something that generates you 1100 USD at a higher rate than inflation growth YOU ARE LOSING MONEY.
that mindset generates more jobs that any government program or minimum wave increment.
>>68259092
>says the former country in which a fucking PHD worked for bread and peanuts while a daylabourer under Reagan could have access to more commodities than the PHD ever could.
there's a reason why your shitty socialist union collapsed Ivan.
>>68257118
there are other costs influencing pricing other than worker pay you fucking dimwit... I'm fucking tired of dumb shit Americans that thinks that by raising the wage nothing happens. "Everybody just pay more!" you are all so fucking happy about capitalism, but you all think that money are better placed in the hands of people who hoard it away, rather than the people who consume products and thus makes the wheels turn..
I'm praying for some cheaper education for you shitheads.. Idiocracy is rising.
>>68258579
I'm all for automation too! Although I'm also for wealth redistribution
>>68259149
It doesn't. I just suck at writing equations.
Higher minimum wage means:
Higher production costs
More money for people
-
More money for people means:
Higher demand for products
-
Higher demand for products + higher production costs = Inflation.
>>68259262
I agree to raise your minimum wage, if and only if you agree to stop taking taxes from me to support people who cannot help themselves.
You cannot have everything required given to you with minimum effort as well as a safety net in case you're somehow so unskilled that you can't flip burgers.
7.25 does not support ones life, but if they are independent they are given government support, for the most part allowing their 7.25/hr to be their spending money, as the government will give them housing and food credit.
>>68259576
>Higher demand for products + higher production costs = Inflation.
thats wrong as fuck
>>68259283
Someone have to maintain that.
>>68259576
Not you've got me confused senpai
>>68257118
>Obviously you have to get a raise too. If you don't it doesn't make sense to have your high stress high knowledge base and high risk job.
If you're the nurse and you don't think you're paid adequately, you should fight for a raise right now. Why should someone else's wage affect yours?
>>68259119
Working doesn't mean that the work is very productive. If you pick fruits 12 hours a day, you are working hard. But at 15$/h the farmer will most probably invest in an automatic harvester.
The intersection of people who lose their jobs and who vote for left-wing parties/want to increase minimum wage is pretty large. It serves them right, when they get what they asked for. Like refugee-welcome sluts who get gangraped by immigrants.
>>68259461
How come you don't realize I am black, you cunt?
How come you don't realize that you make us worse with your stupid policies
How come you don't realize that ANY inflation is a cruelty tax? Especially inflation that isn't necessary?
>>68259474
>there's a reason why your shitty socialist union collapsed Ivan.
Yes, there is, just like there is a reason why your country is collapsed from the get-go. At least I realize that these policies we're talking about can work in a more civilized environment
>>68259469
Aside from rape, accidental pregnancies are completely avoidable.
I'm not pushing for abstinence-only, but too many people forget that unprotected casual sex is still baby making sex. It doesn't matter what the situation is.
>>68256233
Honestly wages are negotiable and just handing everyone this kind of an increase is just bound to crash and burn. If you're a loser who can't find a better job or negotiate a pay raise, then just raising that low bar is perfect for you!
>>68256233
I agree OP.
The government needs to outlaw labor below $15.00 an hour.
Private employers need to be forced by government to pay their workers a set floor.
The wage floor needs to be raised by force so the government can collect more income taxes because the higher the wage, the more government taxes can be collected.
It's the cost of freedom.
>>68257686
>takes job with livable wage
>buys iPhone and weed
>takes highest priced phone contact
>buys luxury foods and other things I don't need
>"I can't afford a place to live! Waahh!!!"
>acts like a nigger
>>68259283
You suck balls at captions. Try: "this worker does not cost $15 an hour"
>>68259255
that would require work and that would interfere with their weed and social media time.
>>68256233
How long until $15 is not a livable wage?
Then they will ask for 30 dollars, then 60, then 120, then 240, and so on.
>>68259599
Negative income tax structure is best. The government guarantees every citizen a certain amount of money every month. If you earn less than that amount, your income will be augmented to that amount. So if the minimum is $500 a month, and you only make $400 a month, you will be given $100
People are given roughly the same value of safety net, but the cost of managing dozens of welfare programs disappears
>>68259599
yeah that's fine I do think people should have to work if they are able to
>>68259937
>can't come up with valid counterpoints
>instead pulls assumptions out of ass
>>68259927
>Private employers need to be forced by government to pay their workers a set floor.
Why not anon? Guess there is no problems with illegal immigrants.
>>68259544
>Althought I'm also for wealth leeching
Why stops at fifteen?
>>68260096
welcome to /pol/
>>68259801
Automation is an eventuality, not a consequence of increasing wages. What do you think people should do? Accept lower and lower wages until the robots take over, then what? Mass suicide? Honestly.
There are going to be millions of people who dig holes and deliver packages and sell food and whatever mindless job you can think of who will be out of work in the next 2-5 decades. Flooding the next highest intellectual tier of jobs is not a solution. We need to decide what to do with them all.
>>68259739
>why should someone else's wage affect yours?
Why should an employer feel threatened if I discuss what a fair wage is with co workers?
>>68259544
>wealth distribution
It already happens. People distribute their wealth towards sources which give them the most utility.
How else would the rich become rich?
It's not a case of have and have->>68259576
nots.
>>68259937
>Tries to live like most reasonable people do
>Can't afford it
>Better not complain about it because bootstraps
>>68260128
>>Private employers need to be forced by government to pay their workers a set floor.
>Why not anon? Guess there is no problems with illegal immigrants.
I agree. I wish government should just take over the private sector and regulate everything. They know so much more than businesses.
>>68260096
Prove that you can't afford to live.
>>68258731
>american public highschool
>worth anything anyway
I'd be pissed since I just got a $13/hr forklift job.
Might as well work at fucking McDonalds if it happens.
Why not just print money and make minimum wage $5000/h?
>>68260075
But would that create incentive for lower stress jobs? It has a communistic feel to it, doesn't it? Why flip burgers and get oil burns when you can be a door-greeter at a super market, or be one of the people at Sams Club who pretends to check your cart for all of the things on your receipt?
>>68260224
Didn't mean to quote >>68259576 mobile sucks
>>68260266
Well, why not flood the country with illegal immigrants? Let corporations hire them for $0.50 an hour. They don't even pay taxes. Americans gets replaced.
I actually want to see this. Live.
>>68260209
>Why should an employer feel threatened if I discuss what a fair wage is with co workers?
because its not wise to let slaves have knowledge of their condition
>>68259855
>Yes, there is, just like there is a reason why your country is collapsed from the get-go.
My country is still a left leaned non free bureaucratic hellhole where the most productive companies are government owned and we are filled with "labour friendly" laws and unions that don't incentive the creation of new jobs or automatically guaranteed monopolies to unions who don't have incentives to invest in technology development or highly productive careers.
>Can Work in a more civilized environment
What an argument Ivan, sure your civilized society tas taught me a lesson. Your country is so prosperous and civilized i'll think of that next time your sister gives me a blowjob at the strip club she works at.
>>68258899
Rental agreements are insane here, good luck finding 4 people you are not related to to rent a house with.
A landlord will hand pick 5 randos to live together before letting 5 people who already know each other move into their property.
>>68260445
>I actually want to see this. Live.
come on over to america friend
>>68260399
>Bernanke detected
I live in one of the poorest states in the nation and the average starting salary is closer to $10. Only the really small rural towns are still paying 7-something with almost no one paying minimum. So true economics aside (because idk how that shit works), how hard can it really be to just find a job that pays 15/hr or close to it? Especially if these people are living in high CoL cities (which should have more job opportunities). No one over the age of 18 should be working for 7.25 anyways, that's ridiculous. How there are people not getting at least a 2 year degree while they work is a fucking wonder to me....
>>68259834
>your black
Is that why your dumb?
>inflation
Most studies show that the increases in wage drastically beats the small level of inflation.
If it was a 0 sum game, youd be right. If the only change in the market, was demand, youd be right. What you fail to see about the min. wage is that for many industries, supply can go up with demand. More stores open. More competition. More factories making more goods.
minimum wage should be different by age.
25-65 can be $15
15-24 can be current.
66 and over can be same as 15-24.
This way no one aged 25-65 will get hired for a minimum wage job. If they can avoid it.
>>68260334
$10 minimum wage in rural af country
>I cant believe that privileged US citizens can't afford to live there!
hey guys i'll double the minimum wage then other wages will increase over time and inflation will devalue the currency to where you have the same buying power as before, maybe less if the rich are able to take some extra profits for themselves
>>68260229
>wants to live like middle class people
>takes a job for high schoolers and complains about pay rather than bettering themselves to be worth hiring
>>68260445
They are flooding the nation with illegal immigrants in the United States??
Hopefully those illegal immigrants can get good jobs by companies that are forced by government to pay a starting wage at $15 an hour.
Soon, they are going to be able to vote in California too.
I really think the American government needs to do away with citizenship requirements and declare every human of the world a citizen.
>>68257118
>In summary: the best thing that can happen is everyone stays just as rich as they are now compared to minimum.
This is one of those very few times when I believe that Marxist theory of indoctrination and subconscious revolutionaries might exist, because you spew the exact same shit those 'sleeper' agents would, only for the political right.
The reason we have minimum wages, construction codes, regulation etc. is because businesses and people try to get away with as much as possible, to the point where it harms the safety and well-being of those around them. Not having them would be a net loss towards the country's efficiency and productivity. I work in construction, and I know very well what 'works' and what's by 'code'. A lot of what works doesn't meet code standards because its either unsafe or a potential liability in the long run. But it 'works'.
American wages have stagnated over the last 40 to 50 years. The only reason businesses have gotten away with this is because women joined the workforce so households are now dual-income. $7.75 today is not a livable wage like it was 40 years ago. Adjusted for inflation, minimum wage was something like $10-11 dollars. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_US_federal_minimum_wage_increases.svg)
This is a much more reasonable sum of money for people to live off of.
You faggots are getting cucked by big businesses and are gladly slathering over cum stains. Obviously $15 is a bit too high, but to actually make LESS money than someone in 1975, and GLADLY defend that practice makes you the biggest fucking cuck of all.
If minimum wage is raised, then every wage is raised.
That means every single business in America must rework their budgets very quickly.
It will cause chaos... other than that I don't know the lasting economic effects.
>>68256233
>we are worth more
if they were, their employer wouldnt be paying them minimum wage. only entitled cunts think they should be paid more for a job a teenager with no skill can easily do
I would rather be a thief than work minimum wage job.Abusing social benefits is way better than any shitty minimum wage job.
Why should it not be raised to $3,000,000 an hour?
>>68260565
I have visited you guys plenty of times. Loved it each time.
>>68260609
No one would join the work force until 25.
>>68260096
Find me a single minimum wage worker, who doesn't have a phone and shit, but is still homeless and hungry. I promise you can't
>>68259739
Would you want to work hard as fuck when you can work 40% as hard for 6% less pay?
>>68256233
It should be raised to $15 an hour, plain and simple. But I also agree that we should replace a majority of those jobs with automation, touch order screens, self checkouts, etc, etc.
>>68260612
That isn't proof.
>>68260524
/thread
>>68258840
Therr should be a fucking child license. There shouldn't have to be a need, but something needs to be done.
>prove your income is good
>prove your housing is good
>prove you are not a drug addict
>etc
>>68260746
the bulk of the people protesting for higher min wage are the ones over 25.
The government should be the one to set wages for employers.
>>68260634
>look mom, i'm sarcastic on the internet
>>68260597
>no one paying minimum
BULLSHIT
>>68260609
people younger than 25 are already lving on their own, and need to be saving up for college or cars, and people aged 65 need money too.
>>68260738
ignorance is bliss
>>68260609
>minimum wage should be different by age.
All wages should just be set by government, why only some?
>>68260410
Idk man, its what they do in Switzerland. It made the government smaller, and increased actual benefits to recipients
Milton Friedman was also an advocate of it
What actually does is encourage people to enter the job market, even when the paycheck cant support their expenses. In the US, if you take a job that pays $400 a month, you may being giving up $1,000 in benefits through various programs
On a negative income tax structure, you take the $500 job because eventually you may climb the ladder and earn more, but you are not penalized monetarily for it
Honestly, corps take every hand out they can get as a rule of thumb. Why anyone expects poor people to behave differently is beyond me
>>68257332
>b-but muh livin' wage
>>68259670
Someone is getting a 60k+ salary to maintain that
>>68260633
>giving money to institutionalized degenerates at a local collage or university under any circumstances.
Pray tell, how does one better themselves in a way that makes them a more attractive employee.
because basic macroeconomics. Unemployment will increase together with inflation
>>68260609
It's already this way in australia
spoiler:
it's a massive fucking failure
enjoy not being able to work minimum wage jobs if you're over 24
>>68259502
Hey retard, the number 1 cost of any business is paying workers wages. Accounting 101. Keep talking about education nigger. Mine was excellent.
>>68260792
Otherwise I believe that union employees should be paid $20 an hour, but you have to give $10-12 per hour to the union.
>>68260177
There will always be manual task for low-IQ workers. Human desire is infinite and it always takes time to develop machines to take over human labor. But only if there is no minimum wage. If there is, those low paying jobs simply disappear.
Don't try to predict and plan the economy. When farming jobs went down 95% it also would have been impossible to predict, that one day there would be pet hair dressers.
>>68260851
I'm 26 and I make 16/hr, I'd go on a rampage if burger flippers started making 15/hr by the pass of a bill.
The people who are older than 25 and want minimum wage increases are the liberals who have useless college degrees, and as such have no long term work experience.
Either way, it couldn't happen as that would qualify as age discrimination.
>>68258042
Being on the other end of the spectrum isn't any better you know. Even though I just don't see how an adult ends up making minimum wage, 7.25 is not livable by any means. It's not even livable in cheaper areas considering how ridiculous rent/food prices keep getting.
>>68260906
You don't like the US? There is literally no reason to not like the US unless you're poor.
>>68261009
>one person is getting a 60K+ salary to maintain 2000 of these.
FTFY
>>68261041
and i know it sounds funny coming from a spaniard. but anyway - the irony of the picture in the OP is that she's LITERALLY not worth more. Like, LITERALLY. And I dont talk about me not liking her or how she looks or behaves. It's about her job and what she produces
>>68261041
get a refund on your education
>>68260524
For a uncivilized country, it doesn't matter if its politics is left-wing or right-wing. It will inevitably turn into a corrupt, nonfunctional shithole in any case. An uncivilized society cannot balance itselft.
And I don't pretend that my country is civilized in the first place. That fact alone doesn't make me teach Westerners about how they should run things based on Russia's crippled experience. However, that's precisely what you're doing. Americans have a different mentality than Mexicans (and Russians, for that matter) and they will run things differently too. Just accept that what you have in your country is merely a product of your nation's inferior mentality.
>>68259502
>you all think that money are better placed in the hands of people who hoard it away
No one who runs a business hoards money. Might as well just be throwing it away because that's all sitting money does for you.
Ever hear of inflation? How about investments?
>>68256233
You don't deserve it. Jobs aren't about your worth, they're about the job's worth.
>>68261172
what does that have to do with what we were discussing?
>>68261061
It isn't hard to find work that pays over min with little to no skills.
I used to work for USIC for a bit. $15 a hour, 401k, medical insurance, company truck, 60 hours a week, don't have to pay for fuel.
don't need any experience and they train you on how to find and mark underground utilities.
>>68259119
>I can guarantee you that Mexican immigrants work harder than any native born Americans,
>that commie slovvy
>I can guarantee you that Mexican immigrants work harder than any native born Americans
They are just willing to do same work for way less since it represents an improvement over the torn appart country with socialist ideas that don't incentive investment and entrepreneurship so the few ones that get to work are paid way less because there's not enough offer of labour for us.
>come from an environment of harder working ethics
Actually, those with a harder working ethics leave, because america, being a freer country economically than mexico get more value out of their work than they do in mexico because the offer for labour was bigger than the demand from it. Which is something Obama has made sure he wants to destroy. And the most retarded of his policies are
>So immigrants are not getting employed anymore?
>here have some welfare
so the incentive for being in america has shift from
>"hard working people"
to
>"lazy oportunist faggots who are literally being paid for have children"
>They are #1 in the world in hours worked per year.
False
>It would most definitely NOT be the immigrants that start losing their jobs.
it is happening now, because of reforms as minimum wage rises, compensations laws and shit. Like I said, they are literally becoming welfare queens right now.
>>68256233
>we are worth more
Clearly you aren't, since they can find employees who will work for less. There is nothing good about price fixing.
>>68260633
There's no surefire way to better oneself. Many people cannot afford to better themselves either. I hate to pull the privilege card but you're literally just a fucking sheep that can't see beyond themself.
>>68259283
Pennsylvanian here
every sheetz has had these since the early 2000s
they work perfectly fine, no idea why actual fast food joints don't
>>68261214
higher wages -> higher costs for the company -> increase prices. Increased prices decrease demand, an excess of supply appears and companies start producing less and hiring less -> unemployment. Of course this will rebound in the longer run, but the medium run effects are undeniable.
also I don't "pay" for my education
>>68259650
Technically both those things cause inflation. >>68259734
Uhh. How can I better explain?
You have a honey production business. You sell honey at $15 a pound. You harvest 200 pounds of honey per month. You have workers you pay, lets say $10 an hour (few dollars over min wage). You sell the honey at the equilibrium price, that is, you sell it at the highest cost you can sell it for while also avoiding an ever increasing stockpile.
Minimum wage increases, forcing you to pay more to your workers.
You can maybe get away with paying them $15, but might need to increase it so they won't consider going to another job, since they're valuable to you.
Anyway, you now have an increased production cost because of the increase wage cost. Your own profit will be hit, if you don't find a way to cut costs. You could lay off employees, or you could increase the price of your honey sold.
If you lay off employees, your quality may suffer, since your labor force was already at maximum efficiency.
You could raise (inflate) your price. But would you still be able to sell at the optimum rate as I talked about above? Well, since minimum wage means other people have more money too, and with more money, demand for your honey may increase, then the answer is yes, you can raise your price, to balance out the higher demand, and the higher production costs.
>>68256233
why so low, why not raise it to 100$
what OP? do you hate poor people? don't you realize that raising the minimum wage has ABSOLOUTLEY NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on LITERALLY ANYTHING. so we could theoretically raise it with no consiquense. so why not raise it as high as possible.
its literally free money from nowhere. its like magic.
>>68261394
>since they can find employees who will work for less
>actively advocates for shitskins to steal jobs
way to out yourself kike
>>68261022
Read more, learn different languages, work out so you can do labor jobs which pay more, work harder so you can get promotions and raises, there's plenty you can do outside of getting a degree to become more employable, but people refuse to because "I'm perfect just the way I am" we're a meritocracy and that hasn't changed, the reason people get paid less and less is because our country is making less and less money, as demand for jobs goes up, salary goes down. And the only way to fix this is being bank jobs and stabilize our economy, raising minimum wage to insane amounts Will do the opposite of both those things
>>68260992
It's definitely a better concept than doubling the minimum wage, but I feel like it would have some problems, but then again our current welfare system is jacked up and abused anyway.
>>68261511
>why so low, why not raise it to 100$
jesus fuck you monster, do you want poor people to starve?!
it needs to be at least $6,000,000
>>68260608
>Muh you're racist
>lol stupid nigger
Holy double thinking cunt batman!
>Most studies show that the increases in wage drastically beats the small level of inflation.
Again, you are STILL hurting the very poor, which this is meant to help. You are making the very bottom even less desirable in the market.
Stop being an idiot.
>>68261481
also the main point is - if I have to put it in a way, today's "muh 15 $/hour minimum wage" is the "muh 50 $/hour minimum wage" in 20 years. The REAL wage isn't affected, but inflation results regardless.
>>68261511
>ABSOLOUTLEY NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on LITERALLY ANYTHING
Your caps prove nothing. Post credible scientific source. And wipe your mouth.
>>68261417
Top kek
MAH KEEEEDZ BAYBE
MAH KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDZ
>>68259425
Plenty of school systems have vocational training, at least rudimentary vocational training at the high school level. I went to a high school that offered training and even certifications for computers/networking (Comptia A+), auto repair, and even land management, as it was a suburb city with equal ties to both urban and rural living.
The unfortunate thing is that not school systems have this available, which is another issue entirely when trying to get education brought up to a decent standard everywhere around the nation. A good school system should know at least what to do with it's money in relation to it's area economy and the kind of vocational programs to offer in correlation to general high school classes.
I already think traditional high school is a waste of time for a vast portion of students, and believe much more funding should go into HS level technical/vocational schools and community colleges that focus on actual job training.
The national college system and student loan companies don't want that happening though since it means a huge loss of income. For many schools and professors, it also means a loss of social power too in trying to control the minds of today's students, whom many are pushed towards typical neo-liberal idiocies like minimum wage, gibmedats mentality, and stepping on our sacred rights because of muh feelings.
A system more like Japan and Europe where a student can go to high school, vocational school or choose to go into the work force seems to make more sense to me.
>>68257332
It wouldn't be a living wage. It's getting almost impossible to find a minimum wage job thats full time as is. Increasing minimum wage will decrease hours available to cut costs. Sure you can make $15 an hour, but enjoy working 16 hours a week.
Why should government control what employers pay their employees at all?
Why does the government need to outlaw all wages below a certain level?
>>68259474
and whats your fucking point. they have the spare cash to actually afford to STOP LOSING MONEY. The people at minimum wage don't.
>>68261526
The language thing may actually be a good idea but they way things are here I honestly don't know if I have the will to even go on.
>>68261511
This
I need more money and we need mo money fo dem programs
>>68256233
It should be raised according to economic standing. If the CPI, inflation, and goods basket indicate that the current minimum wage is insufficient then it should be raised. But to stamp on an arbitrary number like $15 is stupid.
>>68258535
You can find ok apartments for 400 dollars a month split that with one person and you are golden with minimum wage
How the fuck do you think people live on minimum wage now?
Bringing the minimum wage up is the wrong way to go, keep the wage the same find a way to bring down inflation and the cost of living and everything would be perfect
>>68258180
They want their bosses to do it for them.
>>68260900
I'm just referring to my state, which has a really shitty economy compared to the rest of America (something like 7th worst economy), and there's still not much min wage positions outside of mom and pop businesses or really rural towns.
People need to be taking advantage of small cities (100-300k) desu. Most jobs pay well over min wage but doesn't have the ridic cost of living of a large city.
>>68261719
Couldn't corporations hire third world legals & illegals instead for pennies?
>>68261494
>since minimum wage
since a minimum wage increase*
I really need to proofread more.
>>68261719
Add to that list "why should the government be able to outlaw employees below a certain age".
We could have a lot of children learning trades and making a bright future for themselves.
>>68261748
Come home leaf bro jihadnada has fallen
>>68261862
>Couldn't corporations hire third world legals & illegals instead for pennies?
They can already hire illegals whatever wage they want because they hire them against the law and they hire them without government knowing, thus they can already pay them whatever wage they want because they aren't following laws already.
>>68257497
We don't have a minimum wage because we're not total assholes to employees :)
>>68262038
Is that good? What about legals? Should abandon any kind of minimum wage. Nike would come home again.
>>68261814
Fuck I wish housing was that cheap and easy in Canada. Nothing you described is even an option here. You can't find an OK apartment for under 1200, anything less than that is in a rent splitting complex and those have 10 year wait lists to get into.
In my part of Ontario renting a 12'x10' room will cost you upwards of 700 a month with no privacy.
>>68261494
fair enough
>>68257520
underrated
>>68262278
I agree minimum wage should be abandoned.
An employer should be able to set whatever wage they want to pay to hire someone just as someone doesn't have to accept a job if the wage is too low.
This is fucking easy bate, why did anyone bite?
>>68261268
>For a uncivilized country, it doesn't matter if its politics is left-wing or right-wing.
All buraucratic hellholes are uncivilized because there's neither economic nor individual liberty.
Which is something most civilized countries have, and by destroying economic liberty you get a shithole like ours. Minimum wage acts as that process of economic liberty destruction. and it did destroy my country 40 years ago.
>It will inevitably turn into a corrupt, nonfunctional shithole in any case. An uncivilized society cannot balance itselft.
bigger buraucracy = higher corruption
>>68261723
>what's my fucking point
That's not gonna go forever, you'll eventually run out of other people's money to spend and go bankrupt which will increase inflation and will leave those you wanted to help worse off than they were before. That ALWAYS happens in socialist countries.
again ask Venezuela, Ecuador, Brazil, Argentina and Bolivia.
>inb4 but we'll do it differently, because we are not savage spics
Why shouldn't minimum wage be $35/hour?
>>68257332
You could start your own business and charge what you want. I just saw a guy who goes around cleaning dogshit out of people's yards. He's his own boss. Don't be a nigger
>>68262448
People at the age 18 - 35 would be furious and /pol/s activity would soar 400%.
>>68256233
I'll tell you why it became a left wing meme.
>proliferation of right to work states drain Union PACs and dues are down.
>many private and public unions base rates tied to min wage.
>higher min wage triggers higher Union pay
>more monies to dues, PACs
>more Union monies to Democrats...
Go ahead and do it. I'll just quit like I'm going to quit when guaranteed income is rolled out in Ontario. No reason to be a drafter when I could be a NEET.
>"We have guaranteed income now, so you need to work extra hard so you can pay extra taxes!"
But what if I don't
>>68261134
Adults make minimum wage because they choose to do drugs. Literally takes no effort to make better. Where I live a local Aldi had open interviews. 400 applied. 13 could pass the drug test.
Aldi pays 10.50 to start btw
>>68260075
And then nobody works ever because free money and 100% free time.
>>68262626
>???
>>68256233
>welcome in the 3rd world to flood labor markets
>shove them into college to steal jobs at all levels
>further fuck up job markets with H1-B visas
>the government is paying companies and/or giving them tax breaks to hire foreigners over citizens
>throw glass ceilings over the heads of white men to ensure almost none can become doctors, scientists, or engineers now
>GIVE ME $15 AN HOUR TO MOP THE FLOORS AT TACO BELL FOR MY MASTER ACHMED THE FRANCHISE OWNER! I DESERVE IT I HAVE STUDENT LOAN DEBT! VOTE HILLARY OR BERNIE! AND BRING IN MORE IMMIGRANTS!
Good God leftists are so beyond fucking stupid.
>>68262563
I know right?
call Sanders, I have a brilliant Idea, MW should be set to
ONE MILLION DOLLARS
>ITT: burgerfats desperately grasping for reasons why there shouldn't be a livable minimum wage when plenty of other countries like australia have one
Funny thread guys, keep it up.
>>68261719
>Why should government control what employers pay their employees at all?
"Woe is me" mentality of people in the mid-1900s and the working conditions of the mid 1800s to early 1900s being their example, despite not ever knowing what those conditions truly were like.
>Why does the government need to outlaw all wages below a certain level?
Keep the idiots who lack economic intelligence happy.
I don't understand why libtards have no concept of economics. People need to be taught that it's a two way street. Labor is bought with wages, and wages are bought with labor. Labor can only be worth so much, just like wages. Increasing the minimum wage just means decreasing the value of money as real values will have to shift accommodate the new economic environment.
In the end, an employee and an employee are making a voluntary agreement, and both parties have a right to negotiate the wages, times worked and even the working conditions.
I really think people would gain a new understanding and personal power if they just could understand that the "two way street" of economics.
>>68262806
that comic is so hilariously flawed it has to be a parody of something
>>68261523
*They can find white employees who will work for less
Happy now?
>>68263018
Don't you ever compare my country to yours EVER again
>>68257520
>hetero white male detected
Everyone point and laugh
>>68263170
>whites are expected to work for shitskin wages
lol no
>>68263232
Their living standard is higher though.
>>68263306
>whites don't have the agency to evaluate their own worth
lol no
Why don't we just pay everyone $1000/hr, that way we eliminate poor people? Check fucking mate. I should run for president.
>>68263232
You're right, I suppose it's not fair to compare third world countries to first world countries.
>>68263493
is that what they are doing by ensuring proper wages?
Hey comrades, hear me out
if the big issue with raising the minimum wage is evil capitalist raising their prices
why don't we force a livable wage but at the same time we FORCE the evil capitalist pigs to sell their commodities at an affordable price. Bigger wages and no inflation so the evil capitalist profit margin stays low, and wealth is more evenly distributed this would require huge action to punish evil capitalist pigs not wanting to play by the rules so we could print a shit load of cash to hire police officers and spies to check they are not cheating behind our backs, hence we put a huge brake on unemployment too
why no one has thought of this before?
#feel the bern
>>68261061
Wouldn't that be the point?
>>68256233
Keeps debt circulating, furthering the current paradigm.
>Be able to pay off old loans/credit
>qualify for new ones
>>68256233
Why not lower the price of goods?
>>68261719
Because you're back with legal slavery at this point, except unlike real slavery, slaves don't get fed or housed.
>>68257332
Minimum wage IS a living wage if you'd get over your ego and move out of NYC/SFC/DC you stupid nigger.
