Besides "muh feels", is there any good argument for giving illegals amnesty or citizenship and not just kicking them out of the country?
>>68240768
amnesty part, you can argue that detainment and deportation cost more tax money than offering a amnesty deal where the illegal pays back tax as well as other possible reimbursements for using pubic services.
>>68240768
It would save money, as supposed to kicking them out.
It also gives great economics benefits, as you have plenty of new consumers who are willing to buy. They also work for relatively cheap, which means that the companies make more money, which then trickles down just like Ronald Reagan said it would.
More democrat voters
>>68240768
Democrats like importing voters, and they technically raise the national GDP, even if they lower the standard of living for everyone else.
>>68241436
>paying for millions of people's Healthcare, Welfare, and Education every year is somehow cheaper than paying the National Guard to do their job for a few months.
>>68241366
"Detainment and deportation" is somewhat of a strawman though. It is one possible solution, but you could basically end illegal immigration and clear out most illegal immigrants from the country without deporting or detaining one single person. All you'd have to do is:
1. Overwrite the 14th Amendment - get rid of birthright citizenship. Children of illegals are no longer citizens --> they'll stop coming here
2. Cut off Federal funds to any "sanctuary cities" and even states (like California) if they issue drivers licenses to illegals --> they'll leave on their own, less will come here
3. Nationwide e-verify, start prosecuting employers that hire illegals --> they'll leave on their own when they can't find work
Stuff like that. You don't have to detain or deport a single person, just make sure that there's no incentive for them to come here and make life as difficult as possible for them so they leave.
You could even make it so that the law doesn't protect illegal immigrants i.e. if you shoot an illegal, it's not murder (it's like killing an insect), if you get into a car accident with an illegal it's automatically their fault (similar to being drunk) etc.
>>68241805
That's apart of the amnesty deal, senpai. Why keep someone whose not working?
>>68240768
>Besides "muh feels", is there any good argument for giving illegals amnesty or citizenship and not just kicking them out of the country?
Yes, despite what the racists on /pol/ will say amnesty would allow illegals to form unions. Corporations are fighting amnesty because they want to continue the black market of illegal slave wage they currently have going.
>>68241964
>1. Overwrite the 14th Amendment - get rid of birthright citizenship.
Never gonna happen.
>2. Cut off Federal funds to any "sanctuary cities" and even states (like California) if they issue drivers licenses to illegals --> they'll leave on their own, less will come here
Unconstitutional and never gonna happen.
>3. Nationwide e-verify, start prosecuting employers that hire illegals --> they'll leave on their own when they can't find work
We could start with Donald J. Trump.
>>68241964
That's also a really a good idea. Original Poster asked if there are any arguments for amnesty though, I think there are some good arguments but the amnesty plan needs to not be shit. They have to work, have to pay back tax and some fees at a minimum. If they fail to do this, then they don't get shit.
>free markets
>BOOOOO FUCK FREE FLOW OF PEOPLE
Explain your contraction in your ideology /pol/. Why do you hate free markets?
>>68241366
Let's get real. I like the idea of them paying back taxpayers and our government through back taxes, but these people break federal and state law without a care all the time. Why does anyone believe they'll willingly comply?
>>68242185
>Unconstitutional and never gonna happen.
Sanctuary cities themselves are unconstitutional. Diverting citizens' taxes to protect criminals from federal prosecution is unconstitutional and corrupt.
>>68242496
>but these people break federal and state law without a care all the time.
Hmmm you mean they fled central America, the same countries your country fucked over by installing dictatorships and funding terrorists there.
Literally Honduras is a prime example of this.
>>68242185
>1. Never gonna happen.
Why not?
"If making it easy to be an illegal alien isn’t enough, how about offering a reward for being an illegal immigrant? No sane country would do that, right? Guess again. If you break our laws by entering this country without permission and give birth to a child, we reward that child with U.S. citizenship and guarantee a full access to all public and social services this society provides – and that’s a lot of services." - Harry Reid, Democrat, 1993
>2. Unconstitutional and never gonna happen.
Why is it unconstitutional? You could be right. I think #1 and #3 from my plan would be enough to stop it though. Honestly, all you really need is #1, #3 is just the cherry on top.
>3. We could start with Donald J. Trump.
Fine by me.
>>68242496
They comply or go back. That's the thing about being illegal. You are at the mercy of the place that you are wrongfully at.
This is best case scenario for a Amnesty Plan though, and I am fully aware Demofags won't let that fly.
I am just making the case that amnesty isn't a terrible thing.
>>68242625
I don't give a fuck. If it's so bad do something and make your own country better. Don't bring your socialist trash to my country and expect me to pay for your sorry ass.
>>68241366
>you can argue that detainment and deportation cost more tax money than offering a amnesty deal
Considering how many billions they cost annually, and for the length they've cost that much, it's most cost-beneficial to deport/detain them in the long-run.
They broke the law; why do they get leniency because they've not been arrested some X length of time?
>>68242286
I think if we really had a free market (with no welfare, and no voting yourselves benefits) /pol/ would have much less of a problem with unrestricted immigration.
However, in reality, you have to choose between open borders and a welfare state. /pol/ tried getting rid of the welfare state in 2012 (Ron Paul) and it didn't work out so they're going the other route.
>>68242619
>>68242721
You creamy skinned whites should have thought about that when you installed dictatorships in central America and funded terrorists.
>>68242796
>I don't give a fuck.
Oh course you don't. You only care about your shitty country. Fuck everyone else!
YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY IS LITERALLY MAKING OTHER COUNTRIES SHITTY AND THAN YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO COMPLAIN WHEN THEY COME TO YOUR COUNTRY AFTER YOU WRECKED THEIR COUNTRY
>>68242885
Thought about what? What are you referring to?
>>68240768
Moral superiority isnt a "feelz" argument. But then again the USA is the least moral Western nation.
>>68242268
Except if they have children who get birthright citizenship they become defacto state-aid/welfare recipients and still create a burden on social services that are intended for citizens. Not to mention the inevitable visit to the ER/hospital they cannot pay for, but cannot be denied.
The idea that immigrants could reimburse for use of public services trough taxes only works if they were taxed at a much higher rate after being convinced to pay taxes in the first place.
Opposing Syrian refuges is the biggest fucking hypocrisy of the average Amerifag.
CIA literally for years was funding Islamic terrorism in Sryia and fucked over the country with thousands of refugees from Iraqi coming to Syria due to the Iraq War.
And you have the nerve to complain about refugees coming to America.
>>68242956
>Thought about what? What are you referring to?
2009 Honduran coup d'état
Supported only by the American empire to implement neo-liberal policies.
Now lgbts and environmentalists being killed daily in Honduran
>>68243135
1) The vast majority aren't refugees.
2) Even taking seriously your premise that the US is to blame, this doesn't absolve them from staying and trying to make their countries better. You don't just give up and say I'm going to the evil country that fucked me over the first time.
>>68243248
So because of that, the US must give citizenship to anyone born in the US? I don't see the connection there. I can understand if you were arguing for foreign aid or something, but why citizenship? Germany doesn't automatically give Jews citizenship if they're born on German soil. Japan doesn't automatically give Americans citizenship if they're born on Japanese soil. Where's the connection?
>>68243336
>1) The vast majority aren't refugees.
Prove it.
>2) Even taking seriously your premise that the US is to blame, this doesn't absolve them from staying and trying to make their countries better. You don't just give up and say I'm going to the evil country that fucked me over the first time.
It's a well known fact the USA is 100% to blame for the Syrian Civil War. It's not even in dispute anymore. Why do you think ISIS has all that US arms and rolling around in US jeeps? You still think the FSA is a real thing? Missed the memo about the USA talks about siding with al-Qaeda in the civil war?
>>68242885
I love hearing this argument. It's made every time immigration comes up
You shit skins fucked Mexico, and South America up because your culture fucking sucks. That's not our fault.
Also if you people are so proud of your "rich" culture why are they trying to come to The U.S in the first place? If you're such proud people why not try to fix the homeland? Oh yeah because it's not about that at all. You just want an easy ride.
>>68243520
>So because of that, the US must give citizenship to anyone born in the US?
Well maybe you Americans shouldn't go around fucking over other people's countries and causing massive amount of poverty and neo-liberalism.
You get what's coming to you. blowback bitch.
>>68243546
You don't need to cross a fucking ocean to seek refuge
You need to cross an ocean to be an immigrant
>>68243682
Nah, when you're on top you don't get blow back, shitty Europe takes it for us :^)
>>68243641
>You shit skins fucked Mexico, and South America up because your culture fucking sucks. That's not our fault.
Yeah let's ignore central America moving towards independence and socialism before the USA came in and installed "democracy" there.
>Also if you people are so proud of your "rich" culture why are they trying to come to The U.S in the first place?
Did you miss the part about you destroyed their countries? You guys literally rape whatever country you get a your greedy hands on. Anywhere the American empire goes they rape, steal, and pillage.
>>68243682
Yes, I understand the reason why there are refugees coming to the land that is known as the USA. But why shouldn't we change the 14th amendment? What's your logic behind giving them citizenship?
- Germany does NOT give Jewish people citizenship just for being born in Germany, despite past wrongs
- Japan does NOT give Americans citizenship just for being born in Japan, despite past wrongs
Why should the US give citizenship to anyone born here? What's wrong with changing the law?
>>68243712
>You need to cross an ocean to be an immigrant
Europeans didn't cause the Syrian Civil War.
The CIA did. You Americans deserve to take responsibility for this.
>>68243887
>Why should the US give citizenship to anyone born here?
Because that's what the Constitution says.
>>68243841
We're the best thing that happened to you fucks, and you know it.
Stop acting like you guys didn't fuck everything up for yourselves. It's your fault, and nobody else.
>>68243904
But, we won't, Europe will. So have fun being anally annihilated over events out of your control :^)
>>68243904
So now it's not about people seeking refuge from war but getting back at the US
>>68244012
>But, we won't, Europe will.
This is why the world wants to nuke the USA.
>>68243985
So why don't we change it? Women couldn't vote "because that's what the Constitution said" until we changed it.
>>68244021
>So now it's not about people seeking refuge from war but getting back at the US
AmeriKKKa is the most evil nation on the planet. Rouge terrorist state.
>>68244040
But they can't, and they won't, and you can just sit here and cry like a faggot online while my country continues to do what it wants with impunity :^)
>>68244042
>So why don't we change it? Women couldn't vote "because that's what the Constitution said" until we changed it.
I don't see the point in doing it and changing the Constitution is almost impossible to do.
>>68244089
>But they can't,
North Korea has nukes you know.....
>>68244078
Feels so good to have oceans on both sides
>>68243135
>implying the average citizen is the CIA and would have wanted these things anyway
Nah, fuck you
>>68244078
And yet you're in it, you cuck.
>>68244190
>Nah, fuck you
Your tax dollars go to the CIA, and go fund all these illegal wars the American empire is pushing.
Also most Americans support funding islamic terrorists in Syria.
>>68240768
No amnesty. Every illegal should be kicked out.
If an illegal wants to return to the US, he should do it LEGALLY. As long as he has no criminal record from his previous stay, he can have a legit chance.
>>68244264
>And yet you're in it, you cuck.
There were people who also living in Nazi Germany who opposed that regime as well.
>>68244126
And yet, it's still a non-issue. They won't nuke us, they never will, there will be no happening, America won't collapse, you will never see the world change. You will die a slave to America :^)
>>68244078
>Implying the CIA itself isn't the rogue terrorist state
>>68244108
>I don't see the point in doing it
Because, as the great Democrat Harry Reid once said, "no sane country" should give citizenship to the children of illegals. The US and Canada are the only two first-world countries that still do it as of 2008. Plenty of countries used to, but everyone else has already fixed their laws (most recently Ireland, France, NZ, and Aus).
>changing the Constitution is almost impossible to do.
Not really, we did it to make drinking illegal and then reversed it back. We can certainly do this.
>>68240768
No. We will end up as a communist country if they aren't removed.
>>68241366
Same can be said about criminals in prisons, do you wanna let them out ?
>>68242951
pls leave America if you hate it so much
>>68244330
>, he should do it LEGALLY.
This is always the stupidest shit ever. You cross an imagery border without doing certain shit and it's now "illegal".
You do certain things and pass the imagery border and it's LEGAL now.
Do you guys not realize how stupid this all sounds? There shouldn't be any borders. People should be allowed to move where ever they want.
>>68244336
>They won't nuke us,
God I fucking hope they nuke you crackers.
>>68244470
>pls leave America if you hate it so much
Nope.
>>68244395
>No. We will end up as a communist country if they aren't removed.
>I don't know what communism is.
>>68244471
>People should be allowed to move where ever they want.
Oh come on. I thought you were serious, thanks for ruining it.
>>68244509
Let go of your hopes, they will never come true, you will die a hollow husk of a man, never fulfilled, always the dirt beneath my imperialist boot :^)
>>68244563
>Oh come on. I thought you were serious, thanks for ruining it.
Why shouldn't I be allowed to go to what ever country I want to go?
>>68244509
>2016
>nuking people
Get off your grandfathers ideological cock and go be a proud member of the future, nigger.
>>68244471
OK so why don't you invite all the refugees to stay at your home?
Why don't give away all your shit? I mean it's pretty greedy of you to have your own shit
>>68244471
is your uncle going back? why so assblasted paco? Borders are not imaginary. Should we just let who ever the fuck into our homes, just because it would be "wrong" to keep them out? I am an amnesty guy, I just want people in the system. When people here illegally(not in the system) cost the state money it's a problem.
>>68244613
Same reason ypou lock your doors whenever you're not home and at night.
Not everyone means you well.
Here's a (you) for the effort you put up on your replies.
>>68240768
The only argument I would make is that people who immigrated here illegally with their parents when they were too young to be aware of what was happening or why can be granted amnesty IF AND ONLY IF they have no ties back to their home country and the parents that brought them here have died or are incarcerated.
You can't really call someone who spent their entire conscious life in the US a Mexican/Guatemalan/etc, and if they don't have anybody waiting for them back in their country of origin it would be incredibly unfair to send them there as punishment for a crime they were incapable of committing.
>>You could even make it so that the law doesn't protect illegal immigrants i.e. if you shoot an illegal, it's not murder (it's like killing an insect)
kind of goes against the whole 'all men are created equal' thing.
>>68240768
I hate Trump but for the most part no. There does seem to be a double standard between people fleeing drug cartels and people fleeing Isis. The media doesn't ever refer to south american migrants as refugees when some, not all, are. People don't even think of them in that light. I'd say the case can be made for giving some migrants refugee status. Those coming over for better opportunities, jobs, or to abuse our system...well its too bad for them. I'm a very empathetic guy but reality is that we can not take care of the entire world's poor and so we have to draw the line.
>>68240768
Only if your business depends on super cheap labor paid in cash
Here in the midwest landscaping companies employed mainly high school and college kids but they had to pay them minimum wage and do payroll taxes and insure them etc.
Why hire them when you can hire a spic and pay him 3 bucks an hour cash?
>>68244784
>Borders are not imaginary.
Lines on a map.
>Should we just let who ever the fuck into our homes, just because it would be "wrong" to keep them out?
False equivalency.
>When people here illegally(not in the system) cost the state money it's a problem.
Again the problem is capitalism. As long as we have this racist system of capitalism that exploits immigrants we have a problem. We need socialism.
>>68244802
>Same reason ypou lock your doors whenever you're not home and at night.
I don't lock my doors at night
>>68244613
If you dont like it here, gtfo.
>>68240768
Very very expensive, estimated between 400 and 600 billion dollars.
Deporting all illegal immigrants would hurt labor forces for farm harvesting and workers.
Giving a path to citizenship for children who have been educated and used the free services in America (education) would be good for the tax base.
Adding a few million late teens/early 20s young people who will work and pax taxes for the next 40 years of their life would be good for the economy.
>>68244802
>Asians actually lock their doors
>>68245184
>Very very expensive, estimated between 400 and 600 billion dollars.
And people seriously think Trump is a conservative.
>>68244613
smuggling contraband, driving wages down because of an oversupply in the labor market, it's a drain on our welfare system, they don't speak the language and special accommodations need to be made for them (increasing the cost of running the gov't)
the list goes on, but it's all pretty much common sense reasons
>>68245102
oh you don't have common sense
>>68240768
The push for amnesty is so that one party or the other can claim a whole new voting bloc. They should be rounded up and eported as soon as possible to prevent this from happening.
>>68240768
Yes if you are employing them to be able to hire cheap labor. Some of them are so scared of being deported they let their employers use them sexually. Although this is more of an argument to not give them amnesty but not deporting them either.
>>68244613
Why should you?
>>68245083
No, go to Cuba friend, the US will not have socialism anytime soon. Bernie fags make me sick
Brazil is having riots right now partly because of socialistic crap
>>68245083
Don't dodge the question
The walls of your home serve the same purpose as borders do for a country
Letting anybody come and go as they please is extending an open invitation to people with worse living conditions who WILL start taking your shit, what's to stop every jigaboo in Africa from coming to your neighborhood and tearing it apart? They would have no reason to stay in their shit hole mud town when they can occupy a Motel 8 lobby
Don't be naive
>>68244537
>spic trash wanting to burrow into America like a tick despite hating it
>spick trash blame America for ruining their decrepit shithole country, despite it being purely their fault
How surprising. You have to go back, Jose
