Redpill me on atheism, /pol/. They claim to be moral but don't believe in "Honour thy father and thy mother", "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal".
How dangerous are atheists for our society?
if you need religion to give you morals your a shitty person
Don't respond to this guy, lest he stinks up /pol/ with these threads like he did /b/
>>68237828
Got tired of posting this cancer on /b/, have you kraut-kun?
>>68237916
First post, best post.
B8 thread disregarded.
>>68237828
>>68237916
Atheists can not be moral.
For example think about a immoral action, whatever the action Atheists have no reason to consider it morally bad if they feel that they benefit from that action.
>>68237828
Those notions are just boundaries that older cultures set forth to maintain order. Those same notions can still be used, or altered to a new environment. If atheism was truly abrasive, we would be in even worse shape than we are right now.
It all comes down to self development, of which there is very little of. So the older defaults still exist until new ones are created or the older ones renewed. To be frank with you OP, nobody has the right answer. Because there is no right answer. Certain things like religion and atheism keep people rationalizing within a set culture. It doesn't make it any more right or wrong, it's just the boundary those people set for themselves to believe.
It's the same for me in relationships. I used to solely believe in monogamy. Now after being a PUA and getting into a dozen threesomes I recognize now that women practically enjoy having sex with women just as much as with a man. It all comes back to speculation, which changes with experience and like I said before - self development. Do whatever keeps you happy. Not like a "high" but what actually keeps you entertained in the moment. If religion helps you, do that. If atheism helps you, do that.
>>68238226
killing is bad. wow. hard shit man. stealing is bad. man i'm glad i have a book to tell me that.
>>68237828
Go back to /b/
>>68237916
Thats easily said, but you grew up in a Christian culture with laws partially based on what is considered to be ethical by man and by God. Your ethics are Christian, you probably just suck at keeping to them.
>you need to be religious to have decency
>>68237828
I'd never shake hands with an atheist, I hear those dirty buggars shove fruit up their bums
>>68238226
Humans being disgusted at killing others is biological, people puke after ending other people's lives for the first time.
What if your parents are total cunts? Killing and stealing are Christian past times as well
>>68238425
Killing is bad in any society. Of course in other cultures killing can be a way to punish someone who did something like raping. It is because we are not savages in western societies. But any religion
sees killing as something bad.
>>68238425
Religion has helped me see what's right and wrong, but it's not the sole factor.
My parents, my society and my experiences have shaped me to become who i am, i am not religious, i believe God is BS and the church is full of jews.
But i still know people are worthy of respect because they're human, just like me.
>>68238425
so what? you can abide by (most) christian ethics without believing in god. being an atheist doesn't mean you object ideas like "treat others like you'd want yourself to be treated" etc.
>>68238226
yeah its not like bad things have consequences unless you habeeb in god
>>68237828
So you believe there can not be morality without religion? That's one scary opinion.
>>68237916
>>68238103
>#fuck my mother and father
>#fuck religion too brah
>I make my own morals
How edgy
>>68238617
I didn't puke from my first kill
am I bad persons
>>68239257
my mother and father weren't christians either
>>68239257
(You)
>>68239318
Nah, it's not uncommon, it also depends on whether or not you saw them as they died and how you killed them.
>>68238608
I'll never shake hands with a pajeet, I heard those dirty buggars wipe their ass with their hands
>>68237828
Atheists eventually become marxists and then ironically fascist.
Atheism is only for those who can handle the fact that they are alone in the universe. Those who fail to realize this will band together and form, ironically yet again, a death cult of their own worse than the religion they so despise.
Atheism is the actual ultimate red pill in the end. If you swallow it and you are not ready, it will forever make you a blue pilled libtard.
>>68238380
Well without it you would never know. Pre-christian societies only viewed killing and stealing as bad when it happened to themselves and their families. It was never considered bad to do it to foreigners and other people. And Greek moral philosophers considered actions like that as morally neutral. It was considered good actions if it made you richer, more powerful and more respected and bad moral actions if you bace poorer, less powerful or uglier because of it (if someone sliced your face for example)
>>68238617
Only because you are indoctrinated with Abrahamic religion and consider it unusual.
>>68238950
So it is consequences that decide if it is morally good or not? So raping children is morally good if you only have good consequences? What if hitler paid you 1 million marks to rape and kill a baby and you knew nobody else would know about it so you would get away with it. Is that moral? So if we legalize murder and rape of babies then it become morally good for everyone who likes it and get a net benefit from it? That's atheist morality.
>>68237828
Athiests are failures in the evolutionary chain of progress, they have among the lowest birth rates and only think of the here and now and dont have sense for the future of their people.
They would rather die out and be replaced by muslim and nigger hoards with higher birth rates that dont support their ideologies.
>>68239542
I grew out of marxism pretty soon after I got my first job. I bet if these fags had to work for a living they wouldn't be such statist cucks.
>>68239542
I'm okay with life being pointless
and the Universe continuing to function long after the earth Is destroyed
I think i was about 7 when I realized this
>>68239654
>It was never considered bad to do it to foreigners and other people.
it's still not considered bad to do it to foreigners if you are at war. Those pre-christian societies were simply always in a state of war.
>>68237828
Thou shalt not kill...except for your enemies and the enemies of freedom. Christian hypocrisy isn't worth fighting anymore, it's no longer amusing. You people hold back the progress of the species. Fuck morality id see you all sterilized.
>>68238425
Following the golden rule of treat others as you wish to be treated is essentially Christian ethics.
>>68239805
>You people hold back the progress of the species
>Christians held back even animals from evolving
Hahaha
>>68237828
>Mom I posted it again!
>>68239797
There are plenty of cucks who actually have really high-paying jobs but support this nonsense, mainly because they don't pay attention to anything outside their field of trade.
>>68239769
That doesn't matter. Atheists must find purpose in a purposeless universe with the philosophy they choose to create. If you become too edgy you are also going to wind up being a fedora lord, thinking he is somehow more enlightened than those with religion.
An atheist without knowledge is the worst
An atheist that lack emotional strength are next
An atheist that have both but don't have their own convictions made up they become arrogant and vain
>>68239948
Christians have held back cloning and genetic engineering in non plant life beings for quite some time now
>>68240104
It was made anyways
>>68239801
Some Christians still consider it bad in war, atheists on the other hand have no way of deciding the validity of any moral claim at all and basically just follow the most basic animal desires regarding all actions without any ability to properly reason in moral questions unless they adapt some religious moral views as axioms. (like the utilitarians for example)
Religion for me is a philosophy combined with mythology.
You can respect or even adhere to the philosophical part without believing in the mythological/spiritual part, as you can adhere to any other philosophy. Some find comfort and peace in spirituality, and that is completely fine. Some don't and that's also completely fine.
There is no need for hostility between theists and atheists.
>>68240352
You don't need religion to use your braincells and realize if you treat people like shit there is a consequence to it. AKA jail.
>>68240104
If punting a fetus skull would cure diesease, I'd make it a field goal.
>>68237828
>Doing goods things for a reward
>Believing in imaginary space man
>>68239661
You're actually right.
Same thing for university professors. We're selecting against intelligence,
>>68240352
Morality existed before Christianity. Jesus was supposedly cruicified next to thieves, so the Romans did not care for theft. Do you just think prior to Christ everyone was fine with murder? Tribal humans most likely didn't take kindly to having tribesmen killed or their women raped or stolen.
>>68240564
>>imaginary space man
>>68237828
>How dangerous are atheists for our society?
last stage before...
>>68240352
what's wrong with experiencing the world with your own eyes and brains and deciding what is bad and what isn't?
there are devote christians who are mass murderers, there are atheists that act like saints "for no reason". religion is not the deciding factor.
>>68240908
Morality isnt just about killing people. It has a lot more to offer which is tied with Christianity
>>68241024
>there are devote christians who are mass murderers
theyre not Christian lol
>>68240814
Smartest men in the world believe God exist
>>68237828
Do you really need some old book to tell you to respect your parents, not kill and steal?
>>68241158
[Citation needed]
>>68241158
Doesn't have anything to do with what I said, and is false any way.
>>68241103
yes they are. don't try to exclude them just because you don't like them.
>>68237828
Atheists are generally guilt-free, thus they are immoral.
Morality stems from avoiding needless pain and suffering, yet atheists are not empathetic and/or consciously-developed enough to grasp suffering as an emotional state (i.e.: they are robots totally incapable of taking feeling into account -- which should *always* be prioerly analyzed; remember, intuition = highly developed marriage of reason & feeling)
>>68237916
It's the other way around m8: because you have a highly developed morality you become Christian.
>>68241032
Is it moral to allow children of Christian scientists to die instead of taking some fucking penicillin? Things would be better if "normal" Christians kept their crazies in fucking check.
>>68237916
if you have no frame of reference for absolute moral value, where does morality stem from?
>inb4 human solidarity
Atheism is a great evil, not in theory but in practical widespread use an atheist society is one that will without fail fall. read up some Dostoevsky for redpills on this
Atheists claim to be smart but if they really where they'd see they're basically killing their own ambitions by believing this
>>68241430
>Is it moral to allow children of Christian scientists to die instead of taking some fucking penicillin?
are you retarded? lmao youre just making shit up as a desperate neckbeard, who did that idiot
>>68241400
They're not christian just because you say so either
>>68241158
I guess that's why the amount of atheists and agnostics among scientists is so much higher than the general public.
But you're romanian so I guess you guys don't even know what science is. Smartest guy is the village elder.
>>68241595
they are christians because they believe in a chrsitian god and pray to a christian god. they are christians because THEY say so, not you or me.
>>68241596
>loses argument
>resorts to ad hominem and memes
Typical atheist. Stupid as a brick
>>68241545
You could say the Greek philosophers spent a lot of time discussing morality but they also spent time boy fucking. I get my philosophy from a Boston Catholic priest...and my boy fucking. :(
>>68238226
What is empathy ? The sign that you are still sane. If you need anything other than your guts to tell you that killing and stealing are bad, you are a nigger.
>>68237828
>"Honour thy father and thy mother"
What if they're abusive?
>"Thou shalt not kill"
>"Thou shalt not steal"
I would not want to be robbed or killed, so they're immoral to me.
>>68240469
But if you can avoid jail then? If you are emperor... Then it is morally good? Typical atheist, just because you don't get punished for raping babies then it must be morally good.
>>68240908
>so the Romans did not care for theft.
They did not care that the POOR stole, it was legal to take from those lower on the hierarchy than yourself.
Romans also entertained jewish law to a certain degree.
>Tribal humans most likely didn't take kindly to having tribesmen killed or their women raped or stolen.
No, but they did not mind if it happened to other people. It was not considered morally wrong to do these things, just bad if it happened to their own tribe.
>>68241024
> there are atheists that act like saints "for no reason".
Completely irrational, but of course they have no rational reason to behave "like saints" and they only "behave like saints" according to some religious moral dicipline.
>>68241710
I missed the part where anyone lost any argument to you friend. Besides I posted a legitimate point in my message, all you do is spout one liners like "smart people believe in god". Do you have statistics to back anything up? I do.
>>68241644
1. According to bible you're not a Christian if you call yourself one, but are given the name of Christian by God if you do what Bible says so they're not
2. Who are they anyway?
>>68241822
any of these for example: http://king-dave.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/03/8623068-answered-prayers-the-worlds-most-prolific-serial-killers-are-devout-christians-coincidence-or-men-of-perfect-faith
first result on google newfriendo
>>68241429
What fucking logic is this? There is no connection between religion and empathy.
>>68241545
Experience
>hit someone
>get hit back
>learn to not hit others
>treat someone well
>get treated well in return
It's not fucking magic.
Christians are only moral because they're scared of getting satan's red dick in their asshole.
Atheists are moral because they wish to be ideal humans. Atheists pursue morality as an aspect of personal development.
Now as for the question at hand: Can you trust an atheist to be moral? No of course not. Neither can you trust a christian to be.
The nice thing about christianity is that no matter what you do, you can always be forgiven if you bend over for jesus.
>>68241803
I posted a legitimate point too, all you do is spout one liners like "besides, that's not true"
http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/177267-smartest-man-in-the-world-with-an-iq-of-210-believes-in-god-and-says-he-will-prove-it-mathematically/
>do you have back up
I do
>>68241990
>Christians are only moral because they're scared of getting satan's red dick in their asshole.
>believe me guys
Lol ok
>>68241978
consider the implications of what you've written before I decide to kick your shit in.
>>68241711
>edgy non sequitur about """"Christian"""""" boyfucking
>>68242089
It's not as though you have a problem speaking for atheists. Why should I have a problem speaking for christians?
>>68241595
No ones making shit up. "Christian scientists" among others do allow children to die rather that use dirty dirty science. Heck I'd go so far to say teaching kids that the earth is 6000 years old, that carbon dating is a croc, the speed of light is false, and the fields of biology, geology, archeology, paleontology, cosmology, & others are liberal conspiracies created by the devil is tantamount to fucking child abuse.
>>68242016
>IQ is intelligence
lmao
and that's ONE PERSON. nobody's said that smart people can't believe in god. one guy with a high IQ believing in god while among scientists as a whole it's 1/10 as popular as the general public does not mean "smart people believe in god"
No more than "christians", who is selective about which bit of the stupid religion they follow. Cannot do something because of religion? Oh well make different interpretation and then do it anyway, hah how easy it is to be christian!
This happen for two thousand year. And all the changes and different interpretation came to be canon during translation and copying of the bible.
Not a single bible defender here adheres to it 100%. Not a single one. Even if they do, they are ISIS tier scum. Kill yourselves.
>>68241726
>What is empathy ? The sign that you are still sane.
What does empathy have to do with morality? In Ancient greece it was considered a weakness because it could lead to bad moral behavior like giving money to poor people, which was considered wasting money because you don't get anything back.
The "empathy morality" or "slave morality" that Nietzche called it because it involves "serving other people" was completely different from the pre-christian "master morality". You only mix empathy into the discussion about morality because you have been indoctrinated with it from christianity. Read "geneaology of morality" by Friedrich Nietache for more on this.
You can not defend atheist morality by taking moral notions that are purely abrahamic in western culture and was not part of moral discussion before it.
>>68242016
IQ tests cannot distinguish the smartest man in the world. It is not made for that.
>>68242089
What other reason is there for you if you are so convinced it can't be enough to just want to be a decent human being?
>>68242206
You denied that persons' claims before. Shows how much in denial you are.
>most is best
>being with the big crows is best
lmao
>>68237828
Insult mom and dad
Kill when you feel like it
Steal to feed
Through hunger not greed
I find these days its the only way I can survive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csxBQLG4-3Q
>>68237828
Atheists simply disbelieve in a god. That has got nothing to do with morality or moral systems, god isn't the only source of moral systems, there's secular moral systems.
>>68237828
What movie is this loli from and why is she a meme?
Two scenarios:
>God says murder is evil
>murder is therefore evil
>if God did not exist, murder would not be evil
>there is nothing bad about God not existing, because all the evil things like murder would be benign if he did not exist
Or
>God says murder is evil
>murder is also inherently evil
>if God did not exist, murder would still be evil
>removing God from the equation does not remove good or evil or the ability to distinguish the two
>atheists can therefore be moral without God
Using God to justify morality, and then saying you need to believe in God to not be deprived of morality is circular logic. Why give a shit about the loss of a thing if you've also lost any incentive to have it in the first place?
>>68242366
The tale that had no end
>>68237828
>You will never meet the childlike empress and give her a name.
>>68242291
Because you want the good for others and you love them. Certainly not because of being scared of satans red dick
>>68242201
Any proof on your statements?
>>68238226
This is more true of beliebers if they're only being good because of reward/punishment when they get back to the character select screen.
As an atheist, I do whatever I like. The only fear is getting caught. I rape and steal my way through life. If I think my victim could identify me, I kill them. Most atheists I know are the same.
>>68237828
You have one job, not forgetting your true god, but instead you picked lousy imitating Jesus god and embraced the cuck culture.
>picture related the only acceptable god of humans
Atheism also welcomed.
>>68242377
>if God did not exist, murder would not be evil
>there is nothing bad about God not existing, because all the evil things like murder would be benign if he did not exist
WRONG
nice sophistry faggot
>>68242489
>you want good for others
What about this is impossible/uncommon for atheists?
>>68242105
Do it faggit.
God is as real as the tooth fairy, it's only good to give you false hope and teach you a lesson.
That doesn't mean i'm gonna treat others like shit.
>>68237828
Lol, I don't know probably very dangerous since it takes some amount of critical thinking to be an atheist. I for one even as a child never brought into that books bullshit, I don't think you need a book to tell you killing is wrong, a normal textbook could do the exact same thing lol.
>>68242570
Not saying it's impossible in atheists. It's just a lot more likely in Christians. As for proof for this, Christians don't bash on atheists and whine about their beliefs unlike atheists.
>>68242377
Nice twist faggot but no one believes you
>>68242722
>Christians don't bash on atheists and whine about their beliefs unlike atheists.
Oh i am laffin
>>68237828
Any person who claims that their beliefs and opinions are the most right or correct are assholes. It's fucking simple.
If you want to be happy, take the world at face value and accept what it is for what it is. If you cant pick something up and go "oh, that's how it works", dont waste your fucking time with it, it will only lead to confusion, excuses and a shitty life.
This is why god is just as fucking stupid and useless as the notion of quantum mechanics.
Sure, you can talk about it in a way that can inspire and teach, but unless you can assume direct control of it or study it in every little detail it posses', it is just a distraction that will lead you away from living a fulfilling life.
>>68241429
True, I haven't felt guilty for something since I was like five lol
>>68242564
Can you explain your issue with what he wrote?
>>68237916
>jacks Christian morality
>take out the parts you don't want to follow because personal reasons
>hurr durr I am moral
>>68242580
if experience determines moral value, that is to say outcome is the metric with which moral value is measured
then if experience has proven that the massacre of the tribe next door is beneficial, massacre becomes moral.
>>68242860
This is a viewpoint that disgusts me.
What's the point of living if you can't discover how things are.
>>68242887
Its like saying if God wouldn't exist there would be no morality therefore God exists
>>68242489
First one on Google. Thankfully they were arrested because it was the SECOND child to die.
Fuck the red pill, take some penicillin and shut the fuck up.
>>68243041
http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/faith-healing-parents-arrested-over-death-of-second-child-130424.htm
>>68238226
Philosophy, not religion, is the origin of morality. Religious morality is birthed from a codified philosophy and reinforced with supreme punishment for failing to honour that moral code. Atheists lack the supreme punishment, but can thoroughly understand and respect the philosophical conclusion that is morality.
Not all atheists are moral, but they absolutely can be.
>>68243041
I can cherrypick atheists that do that and a lot worse too. That makes all of them retarded?
>>68242887
>God says murder is evil
>murder is therefore evil
okay
>if God did not exist, murder would not be evil
seems like a leap, doesn't it? Why would the absence of God immediately imply that murder isn't evil? God's moral code is the FOR with which we assign moral value to actions. Why would the absence of the code imbue murder with a moral value?
>>68242722
You have to understand the 14 year old fedora-lord atheist does not represent mature atheists. Most atheist adults will have a total live and let live policy. Also this >>68242845
>>68242944
Here you go:
>http://www.raikoth.net/consequentialism.html
Short answer, consequentalism is the ultimate ethic arbitrer, but it is not very useful operationally.
>>68237828
Get triggered faggot
>>68243176
Yes. It does. Anyone who expects science and facts to conform to their faith or beliefs is retarded. Please, cherry pick some atheists tho.
>>68243210
>Most atheist adults will have a total live and let live policy
o i am laffin lol
>>68242887
the second part is even more hilarious
because it literally presupposes its conclusion
the point being contested here is that without God the moral value of actions would be unknowable to us. Then he goes to say that murder is also inherently evil.
Goes to show, atheists can't into logic or phil 101
>>68242944
So? If your family is hardcore religious and they kill people in the name of god, you believe killing in the name of god is ok.
If you don't believe in god and live in a happy and peaceful family, you are a moral atheist person.
God doesn't influence your morals, your environment does
>>68243034
>Its like saying if God wouldn't exist there would be no morality therefore God exists
You just made the argument that this person: >>68242377
is arguing against.
This person:
>>68242564
Is taking issue with a particular step in the logic, but I don't see what his issue is.
Why does this statement:
>there is nothing bad about God not existing, because all the evil things like murder would be benign if he did not exist
not follow from this statement:
>if God did not exist, murder would not be evil
>>68242901
>claims to believe in Christian morality
>doesn't kill women who have been raped or require that shellfish be banned
>>68243222
dumping a link suggests that you either lack the moral conviction or courage to actively defend your beliefs.
>>68243409
He was presenting two different scenarios dumbfuck
>>68243434
>If your family is hardcore religious and they kill people in the name of god, you believe killing in the name of god is ok.
Not applicable in case of Christians
>>68243516
>moral conviction
lol someone get this faggot off his high horse.
>>68243434
but I've showed you a major hole in your argument.
> If your family is hardcore religious and they kill people in the name of god, you believe killing in the name of god is ok.
Wrong again faggot
>>68243540
Yes and twisted them around with 2 contradictions implications in each one.. Not to smart for an atheist
>>68243201
>murder is also inherently evil
>>68243540
yeah, and in that scenario he presupposes the conclusion. Retard
>>68243222
Consequentiallsm is easily dismantled by voluntarism. This whole caring about other people business is philosophically unjustifiable. The non-initiation of force principle is the most essential factor for morality, and most else is not philosophically justifiable.
>>68243672
confirmed for literal retard
>>68243569
Hence why i said "religious" and didn't specify.
This whole debate is about if being atheist means you're not a moral person.
The answer is no, you can be atheist AND moral.
If there are no metaphysical constructs in our universe, which atheists believe, then there is no free will. All physical particles are purely deterministic, and as our brains consist of physical particles, they are thus purely deterministic (unless there is a metaphysical construct such as a soul which generates free will). Therefore, any atheist is acting irrationally by being proud of their disbelief or mocking others who believe, as lack of free will implies that neither of choices was made consciously, so there would be no point in praising one or decrying the other.
>>68243516
1) I gave you a short answer.
2) The longer answer would just be me pretty much repeating the stuff on the link.
3) The link is a pretty lucid elucidation of the basis of morality. It is a good read bro.
>>68243669
He's saying that your viewpoint seems to be that God dictates what it moral and what is not, which is why you can't fathom having morality without God telling you what is a good act and what is an evil act. Then the other scenario is without considering what God says, and knowing that murder is evil regardless.
>>68243201
>Why would the absence of God immediately imply that murder isn't evil?
I think his argument means to say that either murder is evil BECAUSE god decrees it (in which case the evilness of murder depends on the fact that god exists to decree that it is evil)
Or
that god's decree that murder is evil is merely incidental. In this case, god is merely telling us something that is true independent of his existence (that murder is evil).
>>68243911
You put it way better than i did.
atheists are usually humanitarians, but not always. You'll have to ask them.
>>68243874
>>68243911
And your point with that is?
>>68243201
Yes but a religion specifically teaches those things no matter how obvious.
The average atheist doesn't have a firm conviction of ideals and philosophies like a religious person does. They usually dont even form such strong convictions, at least not ones based on facts.
>>68243911
yeah, and the point is that knowledge of innate moral value would be unknowable without an absolute frame of reference.
>>68243029
I never said you couldn't.
Im just saying that unless it literally and figuratively changes the world for the better, it's a waste of time.
The last time this happened with religion, was the ten commandments, because hey, they were all monkey brained fuckers back then who didn't understand empathy.
For technology this was the internet, and even then, it has allowed people like you to gain a broad audience, so if anything it just proves that technology is evil and should only be used by the elites who don't abuse it to poison the soil that is the human conscious.
I would tell you to go fuck yourself, but by your flag and your two sentences I can already see that you are leading a life of lies and absolute shit tier relationships. I'm not saying you can't get better or happy, you'll just have a super hard time getting rid of your massively engorged ego.
The first step is to realize that you are not your thoughts, you are the silence or awareness that is in the breaks between your thoughts. Now go take a long ass walk while you consider those words, or you should just end your pathetic life right now. I don't really care either way.
>>68243799
Free will is an emergent concept.
This is not strange, most deterministic systems exhibit random-like properties. Look up "pseudo-randomness".
>>68244013
>The average atheist doesn't have a firm conviction of ideals and philosophies like a religious person does.
[Citation needed]
>>68243409
>the point being contested here is that without God the moral value of actions would be unknowable to us.
It does seem that he is arguing a slightly different point from the one you write here.
>>68243911
in the case where God's determination of moral value is incidental, that absolute morals exist independent of his intervention,
how would an atheist go about proving or determining this absolute moral knowledge?
>>68244003
Many atheists are also humanists. The American Humanist Association is chock full of atheists. Their slogan?
"Good without a god".
Fuck them tho that's just a bunch of Carl Sagan and Bill Nye fags...
>>68244006
>And your point with that is?
Well I was just trying to clarify what he was saying.
And I think I have clarified the problem.
The atheist thought that the christian was supposing the first scenario to be true. Now that we've discovered the miscommunication, the discussion can proceed.
>>68242525
That is the danger of rational people. If you believed in a religion and thought that you never could get away with anything then the rational choice would be to limit yourself. But unfortunately noone, not even another fellow atheist can convince you that what you are doing is morally wrong if you think you can get away with it or overall benefit from it of course. Only by irrational means by trying to shame you or make you feel bad about it.
>>68244159
That would be impossible. Citation isn't even needed for this argument. Im not saying atheists are immoral because they are without god, im saying they are immoral because they are not bound to an ideal and they are prone to think as regular uneducated people would. With solely their emotions. Most atheists and atheist+ and liberals only ever argue with manipulated information or their emotions.
>>68243716
Utilitarian function doesn't need to give weight to caring about others for utilitarianism.
Caring about others might well be an adaptive strategy for caring about yourself, extreme exceptions being the result of the imperfection of the heuristics used.
>>68237828
>implying no atheist is respectful to their parents.
>implying all atheist think murder is moral
>implying all atheist think stealing is moral
Every person, whether consciously or not, forms their own moral system through life experiences. We are a social species, we make our moral system based on what benefits our social society the most.
>killing is negative on society, therefore killing is wrong
We also justify killing in certain cases where it may have a good or no effect on ourselves and our society
>we have to kill them or else they'll kill us, therefore killing them is moraly justified
It's only when a ideology comes in that conflict erupts in a personal moral system.
>killing is obviously negative on society, but these people are gay so should be killed because my book says so
The middle east is a good example of what happens when an ideology is used as a guide of morality over social evolution.
>>68244286
>how would an atheist go about proving or determining this absolute moral knowledge?
Well kant had an ingenious method, if you ask me.
The absolute morality is a set of actions that everyone ought do by definition.
So by using the categorical imperative, we can discover which actions are logically inconsistent with that definition.
>>68238226
Kant wasn't religious so was his view of morality false? I actually thinks it's a way better view than most religious guys have
>>68244568
You should work on your baits a bit more Mr.Ttongsul.
>>68244692
But Kant was one of the good ones. Most atheists are pseudo intellectual sophists that all herd to marxism yet never picked up aristotle plato nietzche kant etc. Etc.
>>68239257
>>68244764
>durhur i dont agree so its bait
You filthy shitwhore we are discussing philosophy and as long as im not making completely incorrect inferences my argument is as valid as the next nignig or ameriburger's
>>68244832
Personally, i'm not a kantian though. I don't accept absolute morality.
I don't know what the word is for my morality though.
>>68245271
There is no such thing as absolute morality but you can usually eliminate it down to only a few acceptable ones that are both practical and ideal.
>>68244574
Caring for others will always be secondary. Sound philosophy and morality is based upon first principles.
>>68245746
I'm guessing we're in agreement then?
The existence of gods does nothing to explain our ideas of morality in my opinion and even if it did, it would still not be reason to suppose their existence.
So in conclusion OP, atheists can or cannot be moral people, their beliefs have nothing to do with it.
Atheists should kill themselves.
>>68245851
somewhat, yours goes further with ideas that aren't philosophically justifiable.
>>68246251
Why? It's the only life we've got.
>>68237916
Hello.
I'm a shitty person.
Now that the ad hominem fallacy is out of the way please explain to me why I should respect or value human life when it is apparently just a meat based algorithm no different or more inherently valuable than the one that runs in my phone's calculator app.
Please explain your reasoning using logic not emotion based arguments like maximising happiness or the survival of the human species.
>>68246251
This
>>68246325
I'm less familiar with philosophy and more with science, so that may be so.
My assumption is that the nature of morality is accounted, through the usual utilitarian mechanisms, by utilitarian functions particular to the individual, but which are for the most part hard-coded into biology and to a lesser extent soft-coded through culture. Is any of that philosophically unjustifiable?
>>68237916
>what is moral epistemology
god damn the reddit/r/atheism education is so shitty.
take a philosophy class and come back.
>>68246474
Oh no the ad hominem a are in no way over...
I've got some questions too...
Do all Catholic priests fuck children?
Are all televangelists secretly gay?
Doesn't morality apply to child fucking?
>>68246251
... but then we would go to hell!
>>68238380
morals extend further than some of society's base laws
>>68246474
Ok. A species goal is to reproduce. Killing people that Ike has no direct conflict with would hurt the species.
>>68241803
Most important scientists do believe in god. The ones today didn't belive in god before they were scientists. And besides 90% of them haven o talent and research dumb shit like 'bumble bee digging patterns'.
Modern science is a business. Nothing useful has been developed since Bohr (Lutheran) or Maxwell (Episcopalian).
That is a fact.
If you believe humanity if fallible, then you cannot believe humanity is inherently moral.
If humans aren't inherently moral that means they must learn it.
Sin is in all of us (humans are fallible) and one must learn to make moral judgments in spite of sin.
Most who say they are moral without religion probably aren't because they haven't learned what it is to be a moral person. To most people these days being a moral person just means they follow very basic laws such as "do not murder" and "stop at the stop sign".
>>68237828
Go back praying Helios you not ready for Chaos the God of Gods
>>68237828
>god
>2016
>>68247340
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Fucking Einstein.
Facts are stubborn things.
>>68237916
>>68239654
>It was never considered bad to do it to foreigners and other people.
So do believe Christians. Pagans are free targets.
>>68237828
Well religious people can't be moral because they are told be be good from the start. If you were told time and time again that if you don't do good you will rot in hell forever; if you're good you get to go to heaven. Atheists on the other hand don't believe in the afterlife so only an atheist is truly moral because they have no reward in the end.
Religious people believe this is fine:
>Spanish missionary, Bartolome de las Casas, described eye-witness accounts of mass murder, torture and rape. 2 Author Barry Lopez, summarizing Las Casas' report wrote:
> "One day, in front of Las Casas, the Spanish dismembered, beheaded, or raped 3000 people. 'Such inhumanities and barbarisms were committed in my sight,' he says, 'as no age can parallel....' The Spanish cut off the legs of children who ran from them. They poured people full of boiling soap. They made bets as to who, with one sweep of his sword, could cut a person in half. They loosed dogs that 'devoured an Indian like a hog, at first sight, in less than a moment.' They used nursing infants for dog food."
>>68247329
Species' have no goal.
Goal implies design and if we are playing at being strict materialists surely we can agree that there is no force designing species?
A species either survives or it does not. So logically the species that engage in actions conducive toward survival will survive while those that do not, die off.
There is no moral agenda or imperative at work here.
The universe does not care.
So with that in mind why should I value the preservation of the human species vs. it's extinction?
>>68250327
Are you implying Spaniard were not religious? Try to tell 16th century Spaniard that he doesn't believe in God or he believes in a wrong way and see how many seconds you will stay alive. So what makes your faith better than his? You are both referring to the same book.
>>68237828
I'm Atheist, but I can still believe in doing good. I mean shit, if oblivion is all that awaits me when I eventually become worm food, might as well not make the world a shittier place while I'm alive, right?
Kkk
>>68250175
Why go so far back to see abuses? Just last month in Pennsylvania...
Grand jury: Altoona diocese concealed sex abuse of hundreds of children by priests.
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/state/2016/03/01/Staggering-abuse-cover-up-in-Altoona-Johnstown-diocese-grand-jury-says/stories/201603010091
Maybe atheists will stop bashing when Christians stop fucking children.
>>68250981
WHY
>>68250793
Actually the fact that these actions (assuming they actually happened) are being lamented by a priest undermine his argument as it's common sense that a priest will be not only more religious than a common soldier, but he will have a former grasp of the principles of his religion.
If the priest were celebrating these actions as good Christian deeds anon would have a point, but that is not the case.
>>68251295
Are you implying that atheists do not molest children?
>>68251380
Because I want to.
>>68251567
No. I'm implying that atheists, not being an organized group, do not have a structure set in place to allow pedophiles into trusted positions in our communities. We also do not aid pedos by moving them around or paying hush money to victims. I'm sure atheists have molested children, I just don't think we had a club or made sport of it.
>>68251295
Well these actions are officially condemned by the Church today. In case of Indians official stance was 40 years late after genocide started. Though even after Sublimis Deus genocide continued like today Chruch prohibits sexual abuse but it continues.
I used to believe in the christian orthodox god. I used to pray every night since I was 5 until I was about 10, then I stopped. I still had faith, but by the time I was 12-13 it was all gone. I had seen my drunk father hit my emotionally unstable mother multiple times, they would shout at each other and fight every night, one time he even threatened my mom with a knife in his hand that he would kill her, he didn't do that, but he had pulled her by the hair and hit her face on the hard side of the bed and broke one of her teeth.
I cried many times because of this bullshit, this had ruined my sister's life too for a long while, she eventually moved out. I lost all respect for my parents for doing this shit, I asked "god" to literally just kill me so the suffering will end multiple times, but it never came, contemplated suicide decided it wasn't worth it. I eventually ran into more terrible shit in my life, I convinced myself there cannot be a god, there is too much evil and suffering, religion is a fucking fake and god is a weird concept, ghosts don't exist, curses don't exist, breaking a mirror won't make your life hell for 7 years, people will make your life hell. God does not exist, that would be physically and logically impossible, and you would realize that if you weren't naive and/or dumb. I have multiple christian friends and I never talk to them or anyone else about religion, I find it a stupid subject to talk about that will never reach a conclusion.
Religion is a bunch of bullshit no matter what type we're talking, they all promise you good stuff if you're a good boy and you go to hell if you don't comply, technically you are all morons for praying to a god, you would probably have to pray to all of them in order not to go to hell.
cont.
>>68252489
The church might officially condem sexual abuse but it in no way prohibits it. It facilitates it. Boston and Penn are clear examples of this.
>I take my morality from the bible and it sais I should hate gays, never masturbate and invade the neighbor city and enslave them
>>68238226
>Atheists have no reason to consider it morally bad if they feel that they benefit from that action
>Retard tier logic
>>68241429
>>68241545
Are you actually claiming that morality and decency are only possible if you are religious?You don't need to be religious to have basic human empathy for others. If you actually think religion is the main reason keeping you from stealing or killing, you are pretty delusional. Secondly, stop acting like religious people are angels and atheist are evil. Last time I checked, there are plenty of religious extremists and religion itself can be used to justify immoral actions.
Religious people always act as if they know exactly what being an atheist is like and think they always know best. Some of you guys are alright, but this mindset from some people is retarded. Basically a meme at this point.
>>68253396
Mai mere una
>>68253396
Since I have left religion it has made me a better person but driven me into depression along with the other shit wrong in my life, my mother was eventually put into a mental institution for about 2 weeks, she was kind of okay for a while, but still not fully recovered, then she stopped taking her pills eventually and some days she just isn't my mother anymore, she's a piece of shit who hates me, our family and herself. My father isn't a drunk anymore but he's still a piece of shit who, despite the fact that he understands the fact my mother is basically mentally ill, he laughs and blames her for it instead of being supportive. I have come to the realization they are both dumb, simpletons and incapable of having coherent thoughts.
I think about the fact that there is no afterlife almost everyday, and that is a fact we all should accept, when you die your "soul" or whatever doesn't fly into the fucking sky, you die, man, it's over. I will never get to see my uncle who died when I was 9, I'll never get to see my grandma who died back in January this year. "Remember how it was before you were born? No? That's how it is after you die."
I firmly believe everyone should drop religion as a concept and just live their fucking lives, man, you may need a book to teach you about morals, but it is not this one, you shouldn't be threatened with eternal hell, no one should. I was an "atheist" from a very young age and I turned out a very empathic, nice person who likes helping people, if I could, then everybody who's not a fucking monkey can also.
>>68244692
Kant was a christian and tried to find a logical basis for Christian morality. His foundation was the bible and he tried to reason why the morality of the bible was rational.
Probably the most christian philosopher in the history of mankind.
>>68239654
And Christians thought it was morally justifiable to burn witches and torture blasphemers. Next.
>>68253971
Intoarce-te la credinta sau omoara-te
>>68254528
that doesn't detract from his point.
>>68252029
Such structures have existed in the past so I don't understand why you're on such a high horse. The German Green Party for instance.
Furthermore why are you acting as if Christians are the sole representatives of theism?
>>68241103
>muh no true Scotsman
Hello there reddit. Please read the sticky before posting, thank you, and please enjoy your time here.
>>68254536
nu ma pot intoarce nici daca as vrea, este imposibil.
nu inteleg de ce m-as omori daca nu ma intorc la credinta, ce treaba are una cu alta?
>>68255104
Nu poti da vina pe Dumnezeu pentru problemele tale. De fapt, poti, dae e stupid.
>hurrr am patit asa si asa deci e vina lui Dumnezeu
>daca exista Dumnezeu nu pateam asta sau asta
>>68254885
You are totally right.
Many Muslims also allow the rape and torture of children. Just like the Chatholic church does to this very day.
>>68254824
Yes it does. The point is, Christianity isn't the source of objective morality. There is no objective morality. Society, upbringing, and genetics determine your own moral code.
>>68243174
Philosophy can not be the basis for moral statements. I will logically prove it with the following argument:
1. Moral claims apply regardless of your desires
(when we condemn a criminal, do we change our minds if we learn it was in his self-interest to commit it?)
2. If we morally ought to do something, we have a reason to do it.
(If we ask "why am I morally required to vote?", we couldn't take seriously someone who had no other response than "well you simply *musn't*!)
3. So, if we morally ought to do something, we have to have a reason to do it that applies regardless of our desires.
4. Such reasons don't make sense.
(this requires a complicated defense, but basically all reasons are connected to a desire. You can not have a reason to do something if the reason do not illicit any desire. For example "you should run faster than anyone else, because then you win the gold medal", the reason in this case "because you win the gold medal" only makes sense if you desire the gold medal and is invalid if you don't care or even want to avoid getting the gold medal. All reasons have this quality)
5. Therefore, moral claims make no philosophical sense.
Of course if you are religious, for example a muslim, then by being a muslim you worship God and intend to please God. Therefore by definition all of the moral statements attributed to god in the religion apply and 1: They apply regardless of your desire, 2:You always have a reason to do it. 3: The reason and desire always correlate by definition. (if they don't then you are not a muslim. And so 4 and 5 do not apply in the case when someone is religious. But it DOES apply philosophically.
>>68253798
>>Atheists have no reason to consider it morally bad if they feel that they benefit from that action
>Retard tier logic
Well, you have no reason, if you had then you would have mentioned one. And if you do manage to find such a reason then you likely can lecture in moral philosophy at princeton or cambridge or whatever. You would likely be remembered as one of the greats. People have built a philosophical career on way less.
>>68255248
nu dau vina pe dumnezeu pentru ca nu exista.
in privinta "daca exista dumnezeu nu pateam asta" as vrea sa zic ca nu este numai despre mine, se intampla multe lucruri rele. vezi: toata africa, paris anul trecut, romance violate si omorate prin europa, in special italia. refuz sa cred ca bulangiul care mergea pe apa, a vindecat lepra, a murit si a inviat ar lasa cel mai extrem lucru in univers, moartea, sa se intample asupra unor oameni nevinovati.
apropo, cancer in copiii mici.
>>68254528
I am not a christian but how do you know it is NOT morally justifiable? Atheists have no way of checking any moral claim, if you had liked burning witches and torture blasphemers then you would have considered it morally justifiable. Just like how many atheists like Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris have found it morally justifiable to torture muslims and even possibly kill them for their "dangerous ideas". They have no way of checking if it is ACTUALLY morally justifiable, they just happen to feel it was due to the political climate. One might say
"And Atheists thought it was morally justifiable to kill and torture muslims. Next."
It's not a proper argument because atheists have no way to "check" their moral beliefs.
>>68255257
Once again, I don't understand your argument.
Pointing out that religious people commit immoral acts does not negate the fact that atheists lack a logical basis to declare actions immoral in the first place.
Try to argue using logic and not your emotions. You're a rational atheist you should be above silly arguments about "muh keedz".
>>68255554
It's called empathy. Robbing someone would feel bad because you're able to vicariously experience the distress of being a victim of your own actions. At least people without autism experience this, I'm sure you don't, which is why you need a book a jewish fanfiction to tell you right from wrong.
>>68255868
>bulangiu
In container mergi. Daca era totul lapte si miere prostule, eram direct in rai. Trebuie sa dai dovada si devotament inainte sa ajungi acolo. Nu te supara pe Dumnezeu ca esti lenes si nu incerci sa iti rezolvi problemele.
>>68255980
>Atheists have no way of checking any moral claim
That makes no sense. Make an utilitarian calculation. It's imperfect but is epistemologically more rigorous than any other method known.
>>68255554
Well, if I walk past a homeless person on the street, I'd benefit just walking past him and keeping my money. However, I typically give a dollar, because I don't really care about the money. Why not? It feels good to help. If someone drops their money or their credit card, I'd benefit from taking it and using them. But I'd never do that, because I know in the back of my mind that it would be wrong to do so.
You don't need religion to be morally sound. How is that hard to understand? The statement "atheists have NO reason to think something is bad if it helps them" is wrong. It makes no sense. It's called empathy and the connection we have with other people.- - the want to be a semi-decent person in society instead of being an asshole
Thinking you need religion to have basic moral principles is idiotic and relgious people simply think that way to put themselves on a pedestal.
>>68256021
> It's called empathy. Robbing someone would feel bad because you're able to vicariously experience the distress of being a victim of your own actions.
What does empathy have to do with morality? In Ancient greece it was considered a weakness because it could lead to bad moral behavior like giving money to poor people, which was considered wasting money because you don't get anything back.
The "empathy morality" or "slave morality" that Nietzche called it because it involves "serving other people" was completely different from the pre-christian "master morality". You only mix empathy into the discussion about morality because you have been indoctrinated with it from christianity. Read "geneaology of morality" by Friedrich Nietache for more on this.
You can not defend atheist morality by taking moral notions that are purely abrahamic in western culture and was not part of moral discussion before it.
>At least people without autism experience this, I'm sure you don't, which is why you need a book a jewish fanfiction to tell you right from wrong.
Well, you need a rational moral dicipline. Something that applies to psychopaths and people who don't feel like they want it to apply.
Atheists have the idea that "this or that is wrong, but only if you don't feel like doing it anyway". But that is pointless morality, morality should apply even to those who benefit from doing something morally wrong.
>>68256224
nu inteleg ce te face sa crezi ca exista rai.
crede-ma, pentru un om care nu mai crede in zei si dumnezei, nu mai este cale de intoarcere.
>>68255980
Because I think that it's wrong, and mine and society's view on morality is the only standard in existence that I feel is relevant, my own standard being the most important to me.
Burning people alive is cruel and torturous, and the thought of that happening to someone makes me feel grief and mental anguish for them.
I think "gee, that would be a horrible way to die."
So therefore I think it's wrong.
And you're making the mistake of seeing atheism as some sort of centralized philosophy. It's not. It's simply a lack of belief in a god or gods. Beyond that you are free to live by whatever philosophy or code you want to.
Christianity however IS a pretty cohesive religion. There's some variations and different interpretations, but it all comes from the same book written by desert dwellers.
>>68256014
>lack a logical basis to declare actions immoral in the first place.
>Morality as a social contract logic
>>68256483
Normal ca nu daca tu iti impui sa crezi asa si esti closed minded.
>>68256373
So much fucking this. Looks like you're not all stupid.
>>68256021
Your attempt at shaming him is not a rational argument as there is no objective materiel reason to value empathy in the first place beyond your emotional attachment to the concept.
Please stick to logical arguments if you're going to argue for atheism.
>>68256488
>>68256345
>>68256021
So let me get this straight. Christians are constantly derided for making claims on faith and feeling, but when atheists do the same, its ok? I haven't heard any sort of justification in this entire thread on how atheists can account for why we have morals, only opinions and feelings. Nothing any of you said refutes the poster you are replying to.
>>68256373
Ethics and morals relate to “right” and “wrong” conduct. While they are sometimes used interchangeably, they are different: ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual’s own principles regarding right and wrong.
Throughout this thread these terms have been misused. As an atheist I can get my ethics from sources other than religion. My morality is my own. You mentioned psychopaths who many believe to be born they way they are. Isn't it possible that some are born with a sense of empathy or altruism? These traits are even necessarily human specific.
>>68256373
>You only mix empathy into the discussion about morality because you have been indoctrinated with it from christianity
This is easily disproven with a simple google search. Empathy has always been a cornerstone of morality, along with practicality. Plenty of my morals are at odds with Christian morality.
>>68256515
As an atheist I see no logical reason to value contacts social or otherwise so I'm not following your argument.
>>68256345
>You don't need religion to be morally sound.
But you still follow abrahamic religious morals.
You use "giving money to poor people" as a example of good moral behaviour. In ancient greece that would be considered bad moral behaviour. Plato and aristotle would consider you weak and animalistic, moved by your emotion to waste money.
In pre-christian europe that would be considered BAD moral behavior. It is due to the "empathy morality" or "slave morality" that Nietzche called it because it involves "serving other people" was completely different from the pre-christian "master morality". You only mix empathy into the discussion about morality because you have been indoctrinated with it from christianity. Read "geneaology of morality" by Friedrich Nietache for more on this.
You can not defend atheist morality by taking moral notions that are purely abrahamic in western culture and was not part of moral discussion before it.
> It's called empathy and the connection we have with other people.- - the want to be a semi-decent person in society instead of being an asshole
That is due to christian indoctrination, there is no secular reason why empathy should have anything to do with morality. It never had anything to do with morality before christians became mixed into it. Morality used to be actions that developed virtues like bravery, power, beauty and so on. How you behaved towards other people was morally neutral or at least only depended upon how it affected YOU.
The idea that OTHER PEOPLE are the focus of morality is a idea that came to Europe with Christianity it did not exist before that, so you can not claim that this somehow is something you have gotten without religion. There is no secular basis for it.
Christian values are great and definitely help shape a person up but you can reach them without believing in God some cases.
>>68256641
You input a simple utilitarian function, like maximizing total well being, because you would have to be an edgy teenager to deny that is a good zeroth approximation. If the utilitarian calculation is too close you can then procede to refine it (more weight to some less to others), otherwise the difference will more than eat up the inexactness of initial conditions. I suspect the answer should match common sense in most cases, otherwise we wouldn't function; but in some cases you would get different solutions (global optimum much different than local optimums, etc.)
An atheist cannot have morals.He merely have an opinion that certain things are not okay.
Thats why we hear words like problematic,unproductive,unhelpfull from them
And this is the good atheist...Cause they know that in a material universe morality cannot exist.
They dont use immoral or moral since it is meaningless to them.
Just ask atheist or any SJW or anybody who do not believe in a higher power.How do you ground moraluty? and there is never an answer.
I am an atheist as well. I do not believe there are morals.There is no choice either.Free will dont exist.
These are all problems the atheist must solve to ground morality but we cant.
>>68256978
So altruism only apparent in post-monotheistic beings?
Morality is not defined by religious principles. Those are ethics.
>>68237828
>Muslim Germancuck with pedo OP image doesn't understand that no particular religion or even religion in general is the sole source of morality or how morality works in general
>>68256882
The issue is you have no logical reason to hold the altruist up over the sociopath, as a figure to be emulated in the first place.
>Yes they do (at least, loosely)
>Yes they do
>Yes they do
The only reason I say "loosely" is because there's a good amount of presumption in that rule. Different parents are comfortable with different types of communication. My mother raised us with "you little bastard." and "quit bitching!" And that's what we grew up saying. "Bitch" is pretty much my family's version of "faggot" or "nigger," because everyone is always fucking bitching about something.
>>68238226
Some of us, whether we believe in God or not, know that there needs to be a certain set of rules put in place to keep society from sinking into a massive shithole.
>>68256641
There is no reason for morality beyond emotional reasons. If we were a society of emotionless zombies, we wouldn't even have the concept of morality, we'd be automatons with no reason to dwell on such things. There is no objective morality. To even consider otherwise is absurd.
>>68256978
You're so full of shit. Empathy was invented by the abrahamic religions....dumbest thing I heard all month. And you spend so many words saying it too.
>>68237828
>OP never posted anything else in this thread
>200+ replies for such simple bait
>>68257415
Psychopaths and sociopaths are not the same thing. Sociopaths can be highly functioning in society. Altruism is a trait found all over nature. I would absolutely put an "altruist" up on a pedestal next to a physcopath.
>>68257139
It's not a question of being an "edgy teenager" it's simply expecting people to adhere to logically consistent beliefs.
A utilitarian has to believe in the concept of objective good. From a rational atheist perspective this is nonsensical as there is no such thing as objective good.
>>68257877
Honestly if anyone who is making the morality argument could explain to me why altruism exists in humans and other animals...that'd be great.
>>68256807
>Christians are constantly derided for making claims on faith and feeling, but when atheists do the same, its ok?
No one cares if you believe in some magical sky fairy because of how you feel. They only care if your personal beliefs are imposed on other people. You are free to be insulted and made fun of for your beliefs at any time though. Just like an atheist who has a moral code that you find ridiculous. Then again maybe not in Canada, sjnce you go to jail for hurting people's feelings there.
>>68257877
> Psychopaths and sociopaths are not the same thing. Sociopaths can be highly functioning in society.
Irrelevant.
> Altruism is a trait found all over nature. I would absolutely put an "altruist" up on a pedestal next to a physcopath.
Illogical.
>>68256925
https://philosophy.tamucc.edu/readings/professional-ethics/social-contract-theory-summary?destination=node%2F138
>>68257987
>A utilitarian has to believe in the concept of objective good
No, who says so?
Utilitarian function can be pretty much anything, even unrecognizably "evil". They will change from person to person (a lot of research to be done here), but maximizing total well being is a good approximation.
>>68258235
Tell that to science.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/human-brain-could-be-hard-wired-towards-altruism-scientists-say-a6941041.html
>>68258138
>They only care if your personal beliefs are imposed on other people.
Why should this distinction matter?
>>68258094
I know it's been meme'd into the ground at this point, but arguing with anyone who believes Christianity is anything more than a coward's blanky is completely fucking pointless. find something else to do and let religion die out naturally like it's been trending.
