Whenever the fact that Christians react to atheist argument like this is brought up, they reply that they have loads of great arguments but it's not worth bothering because atheists won't listen.
This seems like a huge copout and more likely that the arguments in question are the sort of feel good C.S. Lewis or Aquinas pablum which reinforces the faith of those who already believe but are quickly recognized as logically faulty by anybody not emotionally invested in vindicating Christianity
Are there any actual good, convincing arguments for the truth of Christianity? Not just theism mind you but specifically the core claims of the Christian religion as laid out in the Bible.
Read some Christian apologetics, like my man GKC
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/chesterton/everlasting/content.htm
>>68214014
Will do. What's your answer to the question in the pic btw
>>68213922
How about what's the point in constantly arguing metaphysics? The scope, and magnitude on which both the theists and atheists argue are so beyond themselves that why even argue half of the time. It's a waste of breath. Practice what you both preach. Go better your own lives instead of trying to feel morally, intellectually, or physically better than the opposition.
>>68214277
Because for an apocalyptic semitic cult to have grown to consume and radically influence the whole of Western civilization is, to me, an intolerably perverse condition that I cannot help but want to undo. If it were Islam or Scientology instead I'm sure you'd feel the same way.
>>68213922
>Are there any actual good, convincing arguments for the truth of Christianity?
William Lane Craig is your best bet for proving the resurrection of Jesus. But even he doesn't quite do it for me.
For me it's something I choose to believe, because not believing it almost killed me.
>>68214053
I wouldn't know, I'm not a Christian.
>>68214350
If you don't like Western civilization, what are you doing on /pol/?
Anyway, the desire to change the world to your liking is an immature one that I hope, for your sake, you grow out of. If you hate the world, you will suffer every day.
Part of the reason people dislike atheists is that they tend to be cunts. No one cares how "right" you are if you're an asshole about it. (Not accusing you of this, just trying to explain.)
>>68214402
props for admitting that it's a personal choice and standing by that.
>>68214402
I suppose I can't hold that against you. But consider this: Man is the only animal which must occasionally be convinced to go on living.
Nobody needs to tell a dog, a beetle, or even a weed to continue surviving. There's something about this which reflects poorly on people who can't find or invent their own reasons to continue struggling.
I've had bad times too. Understatement of the century. I did not need to take leave of my senses to survive. Google the term "sisu" and read about it from whichever source you like. For me it's a kind of existential stubbornness.
religions have never denied being cults
>>68214523
>If you don't like Western civilization, what are you doing on /pol/?
That isn't what I said. If your intent is to knowingly misrepresent my meaning I don't think any productive discussion with you will be possible.
>Part of the reason people dislike atheists is that they tend to be cunts.
If you lived in a country culturally dominated by Scientology for multiple centuries, you can't tell me that upon realizing what it really is and how it began, you wouldn't try to reverse what happened. Anybody still on the inside would consider you a cunt pretty much no matter what you do or say the minute they find out you don't believe anymore.
>>68214561
>Nobody needs to tell a dog, a beetle, or even a weed to continue surviving. There's something about this which reflects poorly on people who can't find or invent their own reasons to continue struggling.
In my opinion, it reflects badly on beetles.
In my experience, you can either have an accurate view of human society, or you can be a materialist. But if you try to have both for more than a few years, you'll go mad.
>>68214586
Except basically every time I post this question to Christians they deny that Christianity is or ever was a cult. For what it's worth I think there is a difference between how religions and cults operate and that while Christianity began as a cult, in the modern day it is a religion.
>>68214680
>In my experience, you can either have an accurate view of human society, or you can be a materialist. But if you try to have both for more than a few years, you'll go mad.
That's the best you can figure out, anyway. So far.
>>68214749
>So far
Life isn't that long. I feel that I have settled. I left the fold, but there's nothing out there for me. I returned and slammed the door behind me.
>>68214692
>>68213922
Well, for one, Christ never told anyone to follow Him. People were just inclined to do so on account of him performing miracles and fulfilling several millennia old prophecies left and right.
>>68214892
You might get something out of this: https://www.inkitt.com/stories/6670
>>68214640
I apologize if you feel I twisted your words. But you must admit that Christianity's influence on Western culture has not been uniformly negative.
>If you lived in a country culturally dominated by Scientology for multiple centuries, you can't tell me that upon realizing what it really is and how it began, you wouldn't try to reverse what happened
actually, I can. Why should I?
Drop this "me against the world" mentality. I can see it is already turning you bitter and spiteful.
>>68214916
>Christ never told anyone to follow Him.
He said twice that those who do not believe he is God will die in their sins and go to Hell.
>People were just inclined to do so on account of him performing miracles
Recorded as having happened nowhere in any contemporary sources except a book written by his followers for the purpose of recruiting more. According to the Qur'an, Muhammad once commanded the Moon to split in two and it briefly did as a sign of his legitimacy as a prophet. Because you're not a Muslim you can recognize this as an obvious lie included to make Islam appear more credible. But you don't recognize the same is true of purported miracles in the bible.
>and fulfilling several millennia old prophecies left and right.
Nope, Jesus fulfills almost none of the criteria to be messiah. What you mean is that there exist convoluted Christian apologetics to try to force him to fit.
The remaining prophesies are of two types; The first are recorded in one book of the Bible, then recorded after the fact as having come true in a later book of the Bible.
Remember it was finalized decades after Jesus died. This is a very easy trick I can also do: I predicted in 1998 that on September 11th 2001 two planes would collide with the WTC towers. Amazing! How did I know that would happen in advance? Am I clairvoyant?
The other type is sufficiently vague as to be true in all ages like "there will be wars and rumors of wars".
>>68214350
Yet when you grow up, you realize that religion fills a necessary spot in peoples loves that they would just replace with some other magical belief - environmentalism, politics, etc. One doesn't have to be religious to see this.
Youre making the same mistake as progressives, in that you think you can disassemble the foundation of you r success/culture and expect current conditions to continue, when in reality they would collapse. You still seek a unreachable perfection without realizing that reality is a series of trade offs.
Christianity/capitalism aren't perfect, but they are vastly superior to the alternatives.
>>68214991
>But you must admit that Christianity's influence on Western culture has not been uniformly negative.
I care only that it is founded on lies.
>Drop this "me against the world" mentality. I can see it is already turning you bitter and spiteful.
No.
>actually, I can. Why should I?
You're saying this for the sake of this particular argument, but if that actually happened to you, unless you're an unscrupulous person you'd try to make things right.
>>68215228
>Yet when you grow up
I'm 32.
>you realize that religion fills a necessary spot in peoples loves that they would just replace with some other magical belief
*lives
>environmentalism, politics, etc
Neither of those are magical beliefs. Did you mean "ideology"? I am not against all ideologies.
>Youre making the same mistake as progressives
*You're
>You still seek a unreachable perfection without realizing that reality is a series of trade offs.
This may be true and is good advice, but in this specific case I don't agree. I will continue trying to change the world as I see fit unless you're able to stop me.
>Christianity/capitalism aren't perfect, but they are vastly superior to the alternatives.
For Capitalism I agree. For Christianity, I don't.
Some day ago I saw an infographic that explain all the meanings of the titles of all Star Wars movies, like Palpatine is the phantom menace, Luke Skywalker is the new hope, Darth Vader is the jedi who has returned etc.
I think all of you need a similar infographic about the meanings of the teachings of Jesus Christ, like "selling all your belongings" means to abandon the teachings you grew with (your former "family") to follow those of the Christ, and "cut off your family members" means to struggle to not reprise them, because this would mean to distort the christianism and make it something different and syncretic.
>>68215246
>You're saying this for the sake of this particular argument
No, I am not. You adamantly refuse believe that I am capable of holding such a view, but I am. Then you appeal to your own personal (arbitrary!) moral values, as though they were universal.
I would much rather lead a content and accepting life than gnash my teeth at the world with every breath. Is that so hard to believe?
>>68215360
being petty isn't a great way to win people over.
>>68215371
>I think all of you need a similar infographic about the meanings of the teachings of Jesus Christ, like "selling all your belongings" means to abandon the teachings you grew with (your former "family") to follow those of the Christ, and "cut off your family members" means to struggle to not reprise them, because this would mean to distort the christianism and make it something different and syncretic.
There is of course an in religion explanation for those practices. But it is naive to take them at face value.
For example, in Scientology there is a practice called "disconnection" where new members are supposed to cut off family members who try to talk them into leaving Scientology.
The in-religion explanation is that they are suppressive persons, low on the tone scale who will inhibit the new member's movement up the bridge, Scientology's equivalent of spiritual growth.
Scientologists take this at face value and think it is the real reason for the disconnection policy. But because you are not a Scientologist, you can see from the outside what it is really meant to accomplish.
>>68215484
>I would much rather lead a content and accepting life than gnash my teeth at the world with every breath. Is that so hard to believe?
I guess not. We are very different people though.
>being petty isn't a great way to win people over.
He came out swinging.
Ironically, Islam is going to be the catalyst that destroys the meme called Christianity.
People will either wake up to the fact that it's wrong to be so passive and sacrificing, or they'll be conquered, killed, and replaced.
Either way, christianity as we know it will disappear, and soon.
>>68215360
>phoneposting typos at 6am invalidates my argument
I can see that your self image is strongly dependant on you thinking you're smarter than others.
>I'm 32
Maturity and age do not always go hand in hand.
>>68215690
>Ironically, Islam is going to be the catalyst that destroys the meme called Christianity.
Oh cool, we'll recover from the flu but catch AIDS instead, what an improvement
There needs to be some way for Islam, Judaism, Mormonism and Christianity to neatly destroy each other with no survivors.
>>68215745
>I can see that your self image is strongly dependant on you thinking you're smarter than others.
No, you are dumb as shit though.
>Maturity and age do not always go hand in hand.
Associating whatever conclusions you personally reached with maturity is like progressives defining all societal movement towards leftist goals as "progress".
>>68215759
>There needs to be some way for Islam, Judaism, Mormonism and Christianity to neatly destroy each other with no survivors.
Well the hope is that the west will awaken before it's too late and rise up to fight the muslim hordes.
Whatever remains in that case will be an improvement over what we have now.
>>68215881
In the UK it's the atheists who are openly hostile to Islam and the Catholics and Anglican church that wants to accommodate them.
In the US it's 50/50. We need US atheists to be like UK atheists ASAP
>>68215759
and then everyone will live in peace forever, right?
my advice is to reflect a little and realize how much of your ego is tied up in being right. Clearly you have amassed a fair body of knowledge on the subject -- but only for the purpose of criticizing others and stoking the flames of your self-righteousness. I ask you to consider the possibility that your vitriol hurts yourself more than it hurts others.
Oh Jesus fucking christ.
Really Armoured Skeptic?
You're the only douche that posted an image of yourself on your instagram account stating your GF compared you to this character.
You're also known to visit 4chan and are a youtubing atheist.
I hope you and June both get cancer for being cancer.
I hope your parents get cancer.
If they already have cancer, then good.
DON'T BE SO OBVIOUS.
WE'RE THE INTERNET.
WE'RE WATCHING YOU.
>>68215759
>There needs to be some way for Islam, Judaism, Mormonism and Christianity to neatly destroy each other with no survivors.
If there was, what do you think would happen next?
As an atheist, you must believe that religions were naturally created out of human culture all over the world. So it will obviously happen again. We haven't changed that much.
>>68215957
Yea, sjw's are a different sort of plague. We have to do away with them too.
>>68213922
egsellend boss :DDD
>>68213922
Well, is this man walking on water, healing the sick (for real), performing miracles etc? Granted, the 12 disciples didn't need any miracles to follow Jesus, but they were shown them pretty soon after. Peter and John saw Jesus commune with Moses and Elijah on a mountain and a voice from Heaven said "Listen to my Son" (implying that the old way of the Law of Moses was soon to pass). Is this hypothetical man perfect? Is he dying for the sins of the world, and my sins? Is he rising from the dead?
>>68214947
btw, I'm reading this and mostly enjoying it. Pantheism is my poison of choice. The writing is a tad too smug though.
>>68216051
^and to follow up this post
>>68215831
>progressives defining all societal movement towards leftist goals as "progress".
Which is exactly what you're doing with Christianity. You're no different from a progressive that wants to disassemble the nuclear family and other aspects of western culture because it makes you feel bad, without realizing in the long run it would unraveling the very success you enjoy.
The value of religion doesn't solely lie in spirituality/belief. It's also a way to preserve traditions, to increase social cohesion, to work and live for a reason that go beyond your own interests. That's the essential part to create and maintain a healthy and successful community, something that atheism has not been able to replace.
>>68216562
THAT EDGE
>>68216484
also the author has very obviously done his fair share of psychedelics. If you haven't already, I would follow suit.
>mfw not a single person can properly defend Christianity without resorting to strawmen or vague generalizations.
>>68216594
Preserve tradition my ass. Why did they destroy paganism and hijack their holidays then?
>>68214350
Hey it's me anon. I would with anything. I think we should argue more about values, and ethics. Scientology, and Islam have obvious crazy/regressive veiws. I'd rather hadle the views on a ground level. Christianity currently isn't doing that much harm. Besides as I said earlier why constantly argue over the reasoning to fix an issue insead of fixing the problem. Theists and atheists are shoved so far up each others ass that they never get anything done. Just trite bickering about something vastly beyond themselves. We live in the now why do you people insist on worrying about something beyond you. I'm personally agnostic. We don't have enough evidence to completely support either god or a lack there in. Focus on making daily life better before bickering about the unkown.
>>68213922
Atheist fags are the reason the west is going extinct. Weather you agree or not people will always believe in a god / afterlife. Christianity was the west and it was the first thing cultural marxist targeted and now without that Christianity backbone Muslims who are religious are taking over everything. Yet again atheist act like they're the victim and being suppressed.
>>68217476
But you're just seeing it as a tool rather than a beleif system. You've proven nothing right, just droning on about cultural Marxism.
>>68218324
I'm droning about cultural marxism? Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Im not droning about anything stop being a little drama queen.
My point you cant expect the main population to be enlighten. People will always find something to worship to give them personal reinforcement for death and humans will give into instinct and degeneracy if you dont allow them, we already see that happening today. Religion is a tool, its a belief operating system that's compatible with the western world. The 7 deadly sins being ways to overcome shitty human instinct.
