>2016
>still not Catholic
Why aren't you Catholic yet, /pol/ ?
You have a cuck Pope Francis as your leader. Go back to the Crusading attitude, and I'll join.
Mary worshippers. Joseph the cuck gets short shrift.
I've been thinking about it. I need a religion, just have been putting it off desu. Convert me?
Because of Vatican II
>>68210483
I was raised Catholic. I'd never go back. Religion really is a tool used to control the masses. Truly believing in the Catholic teachings is being willfully ignorant of all logic. There is nothing wrong with the morals, those should be encouraged, but I disagree with a lot of aspects of the faith. That being said I'm not a fedora tipping atheist, atheists/anti theists piss me off. But I consider myself a deist now. Fun fact, Neil Armstrong, first man who walked on the moon also was a deist.
>>68210483
Because I'm an Evangelical.
>>68210483
Satan worshipping blasphemers who are actively working to destroy the work of Christ on Earth.
>>68211470
>>68211679
>>68211801
Together we'll Make Catholicism Great Again
>>68211806
Weak. I bet you just got the shitty Sunday-school catechism that most of us had and you became a fedora because of that. You really need to do some reading yourself with the way things are now
I dont believe in god
>>68211931
we need an antipope that will undo Vatican II and embrace Roman Catholicism's paganistic antisemitic roots
>>68210483
Slave morality and monotheism.
>>68211940
none of you Finns do
asians aren't very religious :^)
>>68212015
Antisemitism is very much a Christian thing
>>68210483
The catholic church is corrupt from the start. While they have done a great service in keeping Christianity around, they've messed it up to much:
>saints
>virgin Mary
>indulgences
>Nicene Creed
>Keeping the word from the people
>>68211931
I'm not a fedora tipping atheist, what part of my post did you not understand?
Religion is dumb. Doesn't matter if it's Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, it's all the same shit really. You all think your religion is the right one and you feed yourself bullshit to make yourselves feel better. Religion is man made, that automatically should mitigate the importance and validity of it. There is no way that man can fully comprehend, know and understand the origins of life, its purpose or the existence of God, let alone what happens after death.
I'm getting Baptized on Saturday.
My atheist family wanted to come and be supportive, but I know they'll just think it's creepy and boring. My father stopped talking to my grandfather when he tried taking him to church services as a teen and my brother told me that he finds liturgical music unnerving. He's had plenty of angry outbursts against Christ too. I told them to stay home but now I feel guilty. I feel like I hurt their feelings, but I don't want to be on the defensive all night. Any advice /pol/?
>>68212097
Best thing is to attack the weak foundations of their religion, which is pretty easy with the right knowledge. See https://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY4.TXT which should be more than enough
>>68210483
I'm white.
>>68212184
Well you've outed that you're an atheist due to lack of knowledge, so tell me: what do you think God is? And please no more Marxist/Feuerbachian platitudes
>>68210483
Because the church is a fucking joke run by a Communist.
>>68210483
because I am a follower of Sithrak
>>68212081
Indeed, Jesus hated Jews.
mfw degenerate scum can't pray with a Rosary
>>68212184
>"I'm not a fedora tipping atheist"
>proceeds to tip fedora
Do you think belief is impossible without knowing?
>>68212263
No. I am a deist. I choose to believe that there may be some kind of higher power. Whether it is someplace in the universe or outside the plane of our existence, I don't know. However, I don't believe that man is capable of fully comprehending whatever it is. And I think any attempt by man to assign "god" features, names, or preach "his" word is foolish and arrogant.
>>68210483
>Why aren't you Catholic yet, /pol/ ?
porque son idolatras
>>68212458
But define what "God" is in your point of view, in relation to God's place in the world or whatnot
>>68212423
Fedora tippers are anti theist atheists. I'm neither. I go to Church on Christmas Day usually the midnight mass with my family, but I don't take communion. I think religion is dumb, but I am not really against it as a lot of my friends and family are religious and I respect their right to believe what they wish as long as it is not forced upon others.
>>68210483
because Vatican II is a disaster and I have a lot of trouble believing in perseverance of saints over once saved always saved / born again
>>68210483
>why aren't you a part of the whore of Babylon
Welp idk
>>68212529
Well that higher power I mentioned is "God" in my view. In my opinion, it does not have a place in the world. If a higher power is responsible for the creation of man, I think it does not intervene with matters on Earth. My point is that humans are too primitive to fully comprehend such advanced matters.
The most logical belief is actually agnosticism. But I like to consider myself a deist so I have some form of death insurance. Really, that is all theistic belief systems are.
>>68210483
How the fuck does one actually believe in religion? I mean, its understandable that some medieval serf or shitskin goat herder or something would believe in magic, but with all the information and education available to us today in the West, you definitely have to be a special kind of retarded.
>>68212184
>Religion is dumb. Doesn't matter if it's Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, it's all the same shit really. You all think your religion is the right one and you feed yourself bullshit to make yourselves feel better.
Religions are just established ways of life based on some metaphysical worldview. We all have worldviews, just some don't necessitate specific ways of life. The west, since the Enlightenment, likes to put 'religion' in a box all itself but it misses the truth of the situation.
>Religion is man made, that automatically should mitigate the importance and validity of it.
In a sense that is true. It is ALWAYS a person or people interacting with reality (whether material reality, outside that, or whatever) and grasping a view so to teach others. But that doesn't means they are wrong immediately as all their circumstances are different and nothing said here says otherwise.
>There is no way that man can fully comprehend, know and understand the origins of life, its purpose or the existence of God, let alone what happens after death
>said the person who has likely never actually seen any serious discourse on the topic in his life
>>68212458
Why do you believe that though? How can you just choose to believe something?
>>68212805
You sound like a ginger.
>>68210483
I am, put Francis the Cuck is making me ashamed of it
>>68212778
You've pretty much been mentioning aspects of the Catholic view of God here.
"Man can't fully comprehend God"
"God is not a being in the world"
Might want to look into a 2000+ year old intellectual tradition a bit more rather than dismiss it outright.
It's like 5AM here so I can't do this much longer, but ask Wolfshiem about anything, he knows his shit
>>68212904
Guess again.
>>68210483
Haven't been confirmed yet.
Can't be bothered tbqh.
>>68210483
Worshipping statues and dead people like saints is a waste of time and basically paganism, also since 1992 it is considered a sin to pray directly to God, you have to go through a catolic priest, which is just one piece of nonsense in this religion of worshipping 3-gods-in-1 like some hindu.
If you are catholic or any kind of christian then your wife expect to be your master, you are expected to accept homosexuality and all other kinds of so called sins because none of the sins really count anymore because it's mostly mentioned in the old testament which christians dont consider valid. And Christians don't follow the new testament either (when did you last see a woman cover her hair like it says in Corrinthians 11:5-6? Only muslims are modest these days)
Islam is where it's at... All the proper conservatives become muslim. I was baptisised catolic, but I am now a muslim and much better of it. Proper monotheism now exist in Europe for the first time since forever, better take the deal while you are alive.
>>68212805
>How the fuck does one actually believe in religion?
Religion is a very big term. Religions all try to uphold fairly different worldviews and exist for different purposes. Further, people have differing epistemological systems. What are we supposed to say?
>>68210483
Because I've read the NT and the way Paul, Peter, and John tell us to run a church (by Elders) is not the way of the Catholic Church. The closest we have to the original church is Presbyterian / Reformed
>>68212629
Wouldn't be the same without you, Prot.
>>68212889
>Why do you believe that though?
Well, it's because it's not exactly an organized belief system like religion is. It is more of a "philosophical idea" if that makes sense.
>>68212966
Why believe in revelation? Why believe that the Bible is the word of God? Why believe that Jesus performed miracles?
>>68210483
LaVeyan Satanism > Catholicism
>>68213048
Do you believe in a deity? If so, why?
>>68213083
Underage b&
>>68210483
I'm a Catholic but I don't like the pope, have stopped going to church
>>68210483
Vatican II -- Latin is the only true liturgical language; post-V2 popes are all heretics
>>68213048
So that's a way of saying your belief system is just based on feels and doesn't hold up to philosophical scrutiny
>>68212919
Catholics claim to know "God's" teachings, what happens after death, etc. I can't get behind that.
And yes, I don't think man can fully comprehend God or a higher power. I look around at the world today and throughout history and speculate, that a higher power does not involve itself in the affairs of humanity, but I can't know that. That is my point. I don't "know" anything about god or a higher power for sure. I believe that something greater than us exists, but I can't give it a name, describe it, claim to know what happens after death, pray to it or anything that organized religions claim.
>>68210483
I believe in the flying spaghetti monster.
>>68213151
Find a reformed church
>>68213105
Scroll through my earlier posts and google deism.
>>68213197
Nah, I disagree. If anyone's belief system is based on feels it's yours. The warm talk about being good and then having eternal life in Heaven is just really something that can't be proven that is widely believed in order to alleviate the fear of death.
>>68212252
Wtf does the pope foreigner have an opinion? Stfu you fucking crossdresser. Who the fuck does this guy really think he is?
>>68213216
So tell me this: if you don't believe God is real, you logically can't believe in any sort of rational order to the universe, as that would have no backing, so you aren't able to make any absolute claims about reality at all. The only logical belief system for you to arrive at is nihilism, and a nihilism with no backing. What greater freedom is there than to believe that we can do all the evil we like in life with no consequences?
>>68213062
>Why believe in revelation?
As I said, people have all manners of systems for why they believe stuff. Apostolic Christianity teaches that God's Will (Natural Law) is what we are made for - it leads to the fulfillment of the individual - and many will come to terms with teaching in that respect and treat it as truthful. That's their business why they believe something.
The Scholastics, for instance, made an overall strong argument for God without appealing to scripture at all and then combined their philosophical work with a historical argument for an argument for why Jesus is who he says he is.
So people have all manner of reasons for believing things.
>Why believe that the Bible is the word of God?
It's the same sort of thing here, generally, but I'd contend there is a lot of confusion between Protestants (not all but most) and Apostolic Christians on just how the Bible is the 'Word of God' though.
>>68213260
Go back to /r atheism pleb
>>68213260
Reddit you have to go back.
1. Christianity teaches cuckoldry
2. Christianity is Jewish
3. The pope is a SJW
4. God isn't real
>>68213260
This should be the standard response to that type of atheism. Excellent video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BQSqHrU7ns
>>68213455
He thinks the Vicar of Christ, God's deputy on Earth, infallible in matters of doctrine and the ultimate moral arbiter of the human race.
And if you're a Catholic, you think that too.
>>68213216
>pray to it
Of course you can worship God, the higher power, the strongest and most powerful entity in the universe whoever he is. And that will do you good when the master of destinies might choose to guide you towards truth.
"And if Allah had willed, He could have made you [of] one religion, but He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And you will surely be questioned about what you used to do." Quran 16:93
"I have created jinn and human beings only that they might worship Me." Quran 51:56
>>68213657
Leprechaun pls go
>>68213682
Not quite that simple
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/2015/11/papal-fallibility.html
>>68213260
>>68210483
>2016
>still not anglican
>>68210483
>[Current Year]
>worshiping the cosmic jew
Enjoy putting money in the collection plate.
I know how good it makes you feel to get fleeced.
>>68213753
Elizabeth will die and everyone is going to be happy when it happens
Anglicanism is a shit-tier faith
>>68213595
I don't believe your God is real. Your god is a personal one and it is foolish to believe such things. I most certainly do believe in a higher power or "impersonal" god.
My beliefs can't be backed. I don't have any evidence to back them up. However, I am more comfortable with settling with this than I am with a religion because I don't have anyone trying to control me, dictate how I should live my life, or anyone preaching about the knowledge, purpose, and power of God like he is their next door neighbour.
>>68210483
Because catholicism is just as much a pile of bullshit as all other religious sects are with the added negative of none of the entertaining asshattery that comes from say the deities of classical polytheism?
No sexy fuckable nymphs, valkyries or goddesses either, just genderless angels that are either faggots with wings or lovecraftian monsters the latter of which is vaguely interesting but the old eldritch horror thing is kinda played out by now.
TL;DR your fantastic deity and his servants are kinda boring and your religion is just as much bullshit as all others.
>>68213824
Reddit atheists were here before, now here come the 4chan atheists
>>68213612
My point is that none of these beliefs have a rational basis. They're based on appeals tradition and authority, and/or bad logic.
>>68213900
If your beliefs can't be backed, what business do you have trying to argue them?
It sounds more like you're upset that there are moral rules you need to follow (which make logical sense too if you look into theology) than anything else
>>68210483
>2016
>still being a Papist
FTFY
>>68213900
Why do you believe in a higher power though? I read your earlier posts, like you said, but they still don't address this question. You say it is foolish to believe in a personal god, but not an impersonal god? Why is this the case?
>>68213716
The pope have a magic chair where everything he says is infallible though.
>>68214276
No, check the article I posted. I need to wake up in like an hour, so I'm out for tonight
>>68213913
What is so bad about being a non-fedora tipping atheist? You talk down to people because they DON'T believe in a powerful invisible ghostman...isn't that a little backwards?
>>68213929
>My point is...
But that wasn't your point at all and you haven't bothered to assert such a thing at all. I made a specific mention of the Scholastics specifically to evade a response like this from you and it seems outright ignored.
Granted, I would say that Theistic Personalism has little rational foundation to itself, Classical Theism has a multi-cultural 1000+ rational backing from it and is the view of God upheld by Apostolic Christianity. This mainly stems from a historic academic support for Divine Conservation.
But of course the modern atheist thinkers can't be bothered to look at these rational arguments and think all the cosmological arguments are trying to talk of some distant temporal first cause and so leads to Big Bang talk. In reality, the vast majority of cosmological arguments (except for the Kalam) argue for divine conservation (a first cause ontologically) rather than a 'before the big bang' (a first cause temporally) and these people struggle to even grasp that as they don't mean to try whatsoever.
The say that to the majority of people who widely speak of this topic, however. Not everyone.
>>68214424
>Classical Theism has a multi-cultural 1000+ rational backing from it
"Classical Theism has a multi-cultural 1000+ year old rational backing for it", rather.
My bad, it's very late. Need to head out soon.
>>68214007
And Catholicism can be backed? I'm not trying to argue for deism as much as I am arguing against Catholicism and religion as a whore. There is absolutely no evidence and no way to know if heaven or hell exists, or if any of the miracles that Catholics claim to have happened actually did. You really are deluding yourself to believe in such nonsense.
>>68214153
Besides death insurance? Well, I suppose I have my doubts about the universe and complex life simply coming into existence by chance and/or without some kind of reason. But let's say that god/a higher power does exist. Where did it come from? Was it eternal? What was at the beginning? My point is that human's can't comprehend this. We can't know for sure. Anyone who claims they do know the answers to these questions is lying. There is no possible way to ever be sure. And this segues well into impersonal vs personal god. I always like to bring in Albert Einstein's view on this because I regard him as one of the greatest mathematical and scientific minds in the history of mankind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein#Personal_god_and_the_afterlife
Essentially, the personal god is a god that humans can "know" and "experience" and many religious people claim to be able to talk to him, know his word, name, etc. Building on what I said before, is there any sense to this? Absolutely not. It's a foolish notion.
>>68214889
Sorry, as a whole*
I need to sleep soon too, it's 3am here, damn.
>>68214424
What is the argument for Classical Theism and divine conservation?
>ITT
>Heretics gonna' heret
>Orthodoxya or Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPecaoV6OVU
>>68212200
you're stupid
>>68212252
>no longer white
since when was it white?
Because they broke away from the teachings and practices of the early church and the apostles and schismed the Church out of a misguided purist of worldly power not only that but they set the seeds for their own destruction by subordinating God to reason, which destroyed them during the enlightenment.
Papal primacy not Papal supremacy. Whislt you continue to maintain this hetrodox position Christendom can never be united
For new posters in this thread this is a perfect example of why Catholicism fell during the enlightenment and schismed again whilst the Orthodox did not.
"The Scholastics, for instance, made an overall strong argument for God without appealing to scripture at all and then combined their philosophical work with a historical argument for an argument for why Jesus is who he says he is"
By giving reason this primacy you created a weapon that was able to destroy church authority and undermine Christ through figures like Spinoza and Hume. Logic is a very malleable thing when anyone can define the axioms its applied to.
>>68215084
There are a few arguments for Classical Theism but Divine Conservation's core arguments exist in the branch of deductive argument called "Cosmological Arguments". They're all different but the vast majority argue for Divine Conservation.
I'm a supporter of Aquinas' Five Ways, which gets into this. The general structure of the argument being:
>Five deductive arguments that reach a certain conclusion about something of reality (For example, Aquinas' First Way ends with of 'pure actuality')
>An examination of the necessary traits of each resulting answer by virtue of what they are
>A series of arguments for how all five things must be representative of the same thing
>A comparison between those elements and how the Abrahamic God is known to be
You see this too, as long as you look into the discussion in full rather than abbreviated versions.
Take for instance, this pic. It's a quick (and somewhat crude) summary of Aquinas First Way with a dissenting response to it and then a proponent response, then a dissent, and so on. So far the Christians have the final word.
If you wish to look this up in greater detail you can check out:
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/07/so-you-think-you-understand.html
A blog, yes, but one of a professor and scholastic philosopher. It goes into misconceptions.
For me in a simpler sense, I tend to support the issue of prime matter. In mind-independent reality, it can exist only as informed by a substantial form. The substantial form of a purely material thing, though, is, apart from matter, a mere abstraction. Then it can exist only as instantiated in prime matter. But this leaves us with a vicious metaphysical circle unless there is something outside the composite that accounts for the parts being combined. And the regress this threatens to generate can in principle be terminated only by that which is in no way a composite of actuality and potentiality -- something which is pure actuality devoid of potentiality.
>>68210483
Claiming the Jewish race was chosen at any point in history is racial treason, fuck Catholicuckism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TrpLGqVk9w
>>68216535
>By giving reason this primacy you created a weapon that was able to destroy church authority and undermine Christ through figures like Spinoza and Hume.
The Augustinians hated on Thomists for exactly what I quoted of you, though. And the Protestants by and large began as Augustinians.
Hume and Spinoza knew very little of Scholastic thought and Classical Theism, especially so given their implications of personalism that had begun a generation or two before Hume. Protestants carried with the 'spirit of modernity' during their day and so took liberties to modernize their view when people like Bacon and Descartes misrepresented or dismissed parts of scholastic thought and they became the big thinkers of the era from whom most Enlightenment thinkers work off of.
Over time, from this and the dislocation between Protestant and Catholic communities politically, you get the dislocation between the Protestant Enlightenment thinkers and Scholastic thought.
The church holds to faith and reason working in unison.
I need to head out. It's very late.
Have a good night.
>>68217163
Catholic general when?
The last one was really great.
>>68217132
>The Augustinians hated on Thomists for exactly what I quoted of you, though. And the Protestants by and large began as Augustinians.
>Lumping in Orthodoxy with protestants
nice
>Hume and Spinoza knew very little of Scholastic thought and Classical Theism, especially so given their implications of personalism that had begun a generation or two before Hume. Protestants carried with the 'spirit of modernity' during their day and so took liberties to modernize their view when people like Bacon and Descartes misrepresented or dismissed parts of scholastic thought and they became the big thinkers of the era from whom most Enlightenment thinkers work off of.
Well here is the point you font get by giving reason primacy you create a weapon that cannot be controlled by scholastics alone. The logic of Hume and Spinoza is literally as accurate of as the Scholastics just under different axioms.
I also like the dissoance you have when it comes to Orthodoxy
I've been a non-practicing atheist since I was 14, but I ditched being protestant, not Catholic. I've thought about going to mass some time. I really like the Catholic rituals and Christian spirit but I guess my soul is dead because I can't feel faith, even by suspending my disbelief. I still think about it a lot. I'm also tempted to do confessional because the idea of admitting my sins to an authority figure kind of gets me hot. I think I'm too degenerate to be a Catholic at this point.
I'm no longer religious. Not in the fedora sense of,
>kek, get enlightened. God doesn't exist!
I just got tired of going to church and praying, or thinkinf about religion.
I was rasied Protestant too (Traditionalist Lutherin, not your southern TV Evanglicist joke church), and it would feel wrong to turn my back on the teachings of Martin Luther.
>>68214333
I don't want to read all that. So the catholic church say that he actually is NOT infallible? Just a pious lie to make people believe in the sanctity of the church or something?
If the priests don't think that the pope is infallible, then why lie about it?
>>68210483
because jesus is a meme
What did he mean with this?
![800px-Syriac_Christianity.svg[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/0q5dRWK.png "800px-Syriac_Christianity.svg[1].png")
>>68216099
The idea that a religion born in the Middle East and one that mostly spread through conversion among all the tribes of the known world (before Islam fucked everything up there were Christians in one form or another from Morocco all the way to India) can be some sorth of ethnic religion like Judaism is pants on head retarded.
>>68218322
What he means is that Vatican II is a farce and the Society of St. Pius is the real continuation of the Catholic tradition.
>>68218603
>What he means is that Vatican II is a farce and the Society of St. Pius is the real continuation of the Catholic tradition.
What lovely dreams you have
Because Jesus is a kike.
>>68210483
>mfw born Catholic and raised up red pilled
>>68217738
How do you Catholics feel about confessional anyway? P-please respond.
>>68210483
Vatican II, Pope Francis, celibate priests for one group (Roman) but not another (Eastern).
>>68211780
Orthodox or Catholic are the only real options.
>>68213595
Standard sophistry. We think therefore we are. You are adding more into this basic concept. The fact is that morality is simply an effective and fruitful function, and I have evidence in reality to back this up. This is valid because our mind reason it this way. That very same perception is different for someone who is insane, who's world is different to ours but is equally real.
Order can be achieved without God. You have no actual evidence to suggest that it can't. It's just the same sophistry every single time. This is true because the same argument for order begotten by God can be made in a way of God begotten by something else. The structure that is God must be created by something for by your logic, if the universe cannot exist or have structure without God then there is no logical place for God. If there is a God that came from nothing, then the universe can equally have been said to have some from nothing. If you default on the argument that God is incomprehensible, then I can default on the argument that the mysterious circumstance under which the universe was created we equally so.
The argument for any sentient being creating the universe is based on nothing but easily deconstructed sophistry.
>>68219815
Was this the post that BTFO of Christchan and all of her autistic hypocritical minions? I think so.
>>68211801
I'm kinda new to /pol/ so I don't know how often this point is made but how many of you are redpilled like this? Because honestly this is the real problem.
Vatican 2 was like the 9/11 of Catholicism
>>68221396
Everyone but the Catholic shills who are in denial are aware of this. It is nothing but sophistry and ignorance that keeps EVERYONE from understanding.
>>68210483
>Why aren't you Catholic yet?
Because Orthodox Christians don't follow degenerate, jew-corrupted forms of the faith like catholocism and protestantism.
>>68211780
>I need a religion
Jews have been poisoning the western church since Josephus. Orthodox christians are the only actual christians left.
>>68221652
orthodoxy has also been infiltrated to some degree, at least in greece. our fucking patriarch went to visit some refugees and removed his cross-scepter, cross and ceremonial clothes so as to not offend them. he had some REALLY badass patriarch some couple of years ago, but they fucking assasinated him.
