Can someone please enlighten me in how raising the minimum wage would fix anything, for instance where would all the extra money needed to pay workers come from?
For example, the CEO of Walmart makes around $8000/h and employees 1.4 million in the U.S of which about 1.2 million are paid below $15 an hour. Even if you axed his salary to $0/h you still wouldn't even get a penny's raise per person. Where would that extra money come from if not from raising product costs and layoffs?
Am I missing something or is it really that simple?
Ssssh... don't be rational. Just go along with it.
Using your brain and trying to understand it analytically will only upset all the niggers and children.
Walmart is being made irrelevant by the internet, and they'll adapt or fall out.
>>68198516
Well, do you like Keynes? Essentially, inflation isn't instant, so with careful forethought you could inflate wages for a brief period before the market adjusts. It all does level out unless you set price ceilings, though.
>>68198516
Basically the idea is that no one should be working 40h and week and not still be in poverty. That being said, if the big companies can hold out long enough to mechanize service jobs, the moral quandry basically solves itself (sort of).
It won't, the idea is that the worked would have more money to spend, but less will be working anyway.
Just lower taxes, the government can't force the market like this without it backfiring
>>68198827
Just wondering, wouldn't that hurt us in the global economy or is the assumption other countries would be doing the same?
>>68198516
>where would all the extra money needed to pay workers come from?
record profits, C-level compensation, stock buybacks...
And don't forget workers with more pay buying stuff. Google "fordism"
>>68198516
the best part of the whole 15 dollar thing is that you would no longer qualify for state and fed assistance. you will be in a new tax bracket and your health insurance cost will go up. you will be worse off than before. way to think this through
>>68198516
By increasing the price of goods.
You already pay the cost of the increases. You pay them in taxes for the social programs required to assist the people who live in poverty because they are only qualified to work at places like Walmart.
You will pay that money. You will pay it to social programs to support people in poverty, or you will pay it for goods and have less poverty.
That's your choice. Make it.
>>68198787
>Walmart is being made irrelevant by the internet, and they'll adapt or fall out.
Not really. People go to Walmart to get things they need quick or some cheap groceries or something. The internet with things like Amazon is good and all, but if I run out of deoderant Im not gonna get it online.
>>68200014
poor people dont pay that much taxes to begin with.
>>68200457
You will if it becomes convenient enough for you to do so.
Like, press a button, drone flies it to your door.
>>68200504
The employer don't pay taxes?
>>68198516
It wont make any sense to raise minimum wage. These niggers working at McDonald's want $15/hr an fuck up orders all day. I've made minimum wage before and was easily able to live off of it, if you don't spend on frivolities like a nigger you can survive easily.
>>68200569
>You will if it becomes convenient enough for you to do so.
>Like, press a button, drone flies it to your door.
That's true but thats many years away, if it ever happens at all.
>>68199484
I've always found the whole argument rather irrelevant when its pretty much a fact that in 10-40 years mechanization will increase to the point that most jobs simply wont exist anymore. but I suppose we can cross that bridge when we get to it.
>>68200603
I agree that raising the minimum wage isnt going to help because prices are going to go up and all that, but I do recognize there is a problem. There are way too many under qualified uneducated people and not enough jobs that pay a living wage. Just too many fucking people.
>>68198516
The money comes from higher prices the average consumer pays when they shop at walmart.
CEOs of business get their money from consumers (who would've guessed), so in order to compensate the added expense of a higher minimum wage, everything they sell will increase in price.
Leftists argue that the CEOs should just take home less money, but taken to an extreme, who would want to run an international business when they get paid the same to be a cashier?
>>68200385
But wouldn't that just go back to the whole "lay off people" part to make up the money which would only bring about more people looking for government handouts, making things worse for everyone?
I've been to superstores and they're already replaced half of their cashiers with self scanners to cut costs.
Walmart has a lot of room to pay employees more.
Read here: http://fortune.com/2013/11/12/why-wal-mart-can-afford-to-give-its-workers-a-50-raise/
>>68198516
It's not a zero sum game.
Profit margins squeezed at Walmart to pay for a wage rise.
Most employees of Walmart shop in Walmart. Guess where that extra spending goes?
Poorer people spend more of their money to survive in a consumer economy. Their numbers and volume are what drives a consumer economy. Wages are a function if demand in a consumer economy.
Cucking wages in a consumer economy reduces demand. Something that should be frowned upon.
What does more good for an economy? Consumer demand? Or an abstract number of dollars sitting in an account not purchasing anything after Walmarts shareholders make yet more record profits?
If the money isn't being spent what good is it?
>>68200569
I personally like walking and buying stuff in person. Certain things I will never buy online, such as clothes. plus the cost to return and reship products would probably be very high for the retailer, especially if they expect a lot of returns.
>>68200794
>Leftists argue that the CEOs should just take home less money, but taken to an extreme, who would want to run an international business when they get paid the same to be a cashier?
>implying its either their current wage or cashier wage
You all are missing the point. A huge some of money is spent every year on 'business re-investments' and share-holder payments. A small portion could be taken from each to give employees what would seem like a proportionally large raise.
http://fortune.com/2013/11/12/why-wal-mart-can-afford-to-give-its-workers-a-50-raise/
>>68201038
>amerifat doesn't get nuance
>point being that CEOs wouldn't work the position if they got paid less
>>68200769
Living wage is a bullshit term, if you're not spending your money on bullshit you can easily live off of minimum wage. Minimum wage isn't designed to let you have a family of 4 in a 3 bedroom house with two cars. It's made for people to be able work at a job that requires very little to no skill.
>>68198516
Meanwhile the people on minimum wage are having their salaries subsidized by the governments and having their basic living standards being paid for by the government.
The problem is that big box stores that pump out cheap products like Walmart are unsustainable. Locally owned business is what generates wealth and prosperity for individuals.
>>68198516
Look im going to just go an say it. We dont need a minimum wage increase what we need is cheaper housing. THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH. Seriously property prices are extremely high and they eat a good chunk of my pay check. We have more houses and apartments then Americans that live here yet stupid boomers bought up all the properties in hopes they could resell them for several times their worth. What we really need is for boomers to finally fucking die and stop hording houses.
The only problem though is when you get affordable housing you get dindu nuffins. So Americans essentially have to pay a tax to get into a no dindu nuffin neighborhood.
>>68198516
It's not about helping the employees, it's about punishing the CEO.
>>68201318
Leftists are anti-market. Rightists are anti-leftist.
>>68201289
No. People on minimum wage are living above their means and the government with social policies pays for them. Like smartphones, cable tv, internet. When you're making minimum wage you don't get extras that other people work hard to get, you get enough to let you live off of it, which it does. I worked at a minimum wage job for over a year and was able to easily live comfortably without spending like a nigger does on useless shit like rims, drugs and sailfoams.
>>68201141
>>68200992
If it's as beneficial to their company like the article suggests, why don't they do it, or a slight variation of it, to see if it actually helps the company grow?
They'll have to raise their prices a little bit.
WHERE ALL MY IMS/CAP NIGGAS AT???
>>68201433
>work 8 hour days
>unable to use any form of modern media entertainment or communication due to being too poor
The American Dream
>>68198516
>extra money
Nice false premise there Mr. Walton
how about we try a little truth on for size...
You would merely rake slightly less profit if you increased your slaves wages... disgusting greedy pig
It's just the bern warden's way of trying to get the minority vote
>>68200385
Less poverty? Once inflation sets in, 15 isn't enough because the buying power of the dollar is worth the same or less than what they get now.
Try more. As those who make it on 15 now would watch their buying power drop and everyday items eating more and more of their budget.
Hurt the lower middle/middle class to subsidize "professions" never meant to support a family on in the first place.
I'll pay for the social programs instead of increasing the the number of people requiring them.
Choice made.
Lower wage earners tend to spend money locally so an increase in wages would create a stimulus for local business.
As long as the supply of money stays equal you would have no real inflation. It would just be a reallocation of wages from executive salaries and bonuses to the wage slave scum.
>>68201699
canadian minimum wage isnt that much higher than ours. I googled it and it said the min was between $10.45 and $11.00 depending on province, converted to American thats only around $8.00. most states have at least $8/hr minimum wage, california has a minimum wage of $10 which is around $13 in canada dollars.
>>68201699
>Stupid leaf has no idea.
> The American Dream is working hard and working yourself up to a place where you can live how you want. Not being fucking lazy and working at a minimum wage job for your entire fucking life and getting paid the same wage or even more than some people coming out of college with a 2-4 year degree or that work in a trade made. Minimum wage is for 60IQ niggers to easily acquire money so the government doesn't have to pay everything for them instead of half if it that is already paid for.
>>68201741
>Making less profits is a good business model
>Your stocks won't tank in the next quarters
>>68201996
Was going to post this but knew someone else would beat me to it.
>>68202007
>The conventional wisdom, of course, is that if Wal-Mart were to hand out raises, its stock would tank. That may not be true. When Google GOOG -0.02% announced a 10% raise for its employees three years ago, the stock dropped a bit but mostly recovered within a year. And Google’s stock is 60% higher now than it was before the raise.
http://fortune.com/2013/11/12/why-wal-mart-can-afford-to-give-its-workers-a-50-raise/
>>68201986
>It would just be a reallocation of wages from executive salaries and bonuses
And who is going to force that? You expect these greedy pigs to willingly take a pay cut? Pretty naive.
I'd expect to see the price of goods increase. Meaning the very people getting paid more, would be paying more for everyday goods.
>>68201996
Yet 65% of minimum wage earners in the US are over 35 and most of them are white because dindus just go on welfare.
And yep, people working full time jobs are just lazy.
Are you by any chance Jewish?
>>68203088
>Kebab leaf calling others Jewish
kek
Your country is failing because of more social policies getting put in place. Minimum wage at $8/hr is more than plenty, and yes people working full time at McDonalds and Walmart are lazy as fuck, because if they aren't they easily move up in the company or go somewhere else. Your country is a complete fucking mess and you're calling out other countries minimum wages? irony.
>>68202189
>I'd expect to see the price of goods increase.
Why? So now you that you have an extra $200 in your pocket every month are you going to buy extra TP or another loaf of bread? Demand for the basics will stay equal, and so will the price.
>pay workers minimum wage
>government has to subsidize their cost of living because your pay is shit
>cheapest place for workers to buy necessities is in the store they work at
>pay them, then take both the money you just paid them AND the assistance they get from the governemnt because your pay is so shit
desu Walmart knows exactly what it's doing
>>68198516
It will bring employee pay closer to the bosses, and the bosses will have to gie up some of their pay to make it happen.
>>68200103
Yes in exports as the price of exports would rise with the price of labor, but you must remember most modern countries tend not to produce basic labor intensive items, but instead high industry items.
>>68198775
FPBP
>>68198516
the best way to fix wage slavery is to obviously revise it
Wal Mart makes so much in profits they could easily raise wages for their employees. They basically force us to pay their employees through welfare.
"muh free markets" cuckservatism is dead. Get on the populist train before it takes off fully this November.
In my eight years of working at Walmart, you would need to cut many executives and cap store manager and bonuses. I'm not complaining because I cant do shit about it, I don't have any other job prospects because lol no GED, and i get paid $14/hr.
>>68198516
I still haven't gotten an answer to why they want $15/hour or how they got to it
Why not $11 or $20?
>>68199484
40 hours is arbitrary. The problem is when the economy doesn't provide enough opportunities for the people who need them. Nobody wants a welfare class except politicians who who think this will earn them votes.
Well, I think executive greed is pretty well established and these people will will have options: A. Rise the price of good to make up the difference. B. Lay of a few employees and expect more from those that remain. C. Close shop and move to an area that remains profitable. D. Cash out and close shop. E. Take a pay cut.
I'm 99% sure you'd see a mixture of A,B,C & D before E ever hit the table.
>Why? So now you that you have an extra $200 in your pocket every month are you going to buy extra TP or another loaf of bread? Demand for the basics will stay equal, and so will the price.
You do indeed have an "extra" 200 dollars in your pocket. Now, that loaf of bread used to cost 1.30, is now 2.30. The TP that used to be 1.49, is now 3.00. And seeing as this minimum wage increase is across the board, you can apply those increased prices to everything you buy.
So that 200 dollars "extra" get you nowhere but back in line screaming for 20 an hour.
>and so will the price.
My question still stands: Who forces executives to take a pay instead increasing the price of goods?
>>68204112
If you're not completely useless or lazy, Walmart gives plenty of raises. $14/hr is good for no GED.
>>68204285
Annual hourly raises of $0.30, but still raises.
>>68198516
>Where would that extra money come from if not from raising product costs and layoffs?
Decrease profits
>Net income
>$14.69 billion
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/104169/000010416914000019/0000104169-14-000019-index.htm
Of course people who would say that don't realize it would cost shareholders lots of money and actually hurt the company and risk jobs
>>68204241
We should make it $1000 dollars so no one is poor.
>>68204285
my cousin supports a family of 4 by working at walmart. he might be a manager tho.
>>68204576
let's abolish the minimum wage so that you have to work every waking moment of your life to afford to live
>>68201318
Every goddamn leftists has this chip on their shoulder.
Bottom line, be exceptional or come to terms that you're average or below and your wages and estate reflect that.
>>68204693
Lets fail to cultivate marketable skills and then sit and cry about payment for unskilled labor.
>>68204898
Envy, leftists are weak people. The only ones that have money either take advantage of someone or get others to give them money for nothing like Sanders.
>>68202007
Business.. right.. fuck off and die with your greed scumbag.
if you actually think your maximizing your profits by squeezing out competition allowing you to hire people at lower wages in order to attract investment to increase your profits more you can seriously rot in hell.
You exist in a society in a nation created for all to live well and comfortably not be worked to death for shit while living in poverty while you exceed the dreams of opulence never imagined . please choke on your spoils
>>68204275
>So that 200 dollars "extra" get you nowhere but back in line screaming for 20 an hour
If the money supply doesn't increase, there will be no inflation. Your belief that a reallocation of wages would create hyperinflation is a fallacy spread by the parasite billionaire class.
Be a good little shill and explain your "inflation is magic" theory
>>68201268
This, and if they were smart they would save some money and look into a trade school where they can learn how to be a productive member of society. Then comes the house, family, cars and nice Shit.
>>68201523
Because public corporations do not care about long term growth. Most of their stocks will have changed hands and most of their executives will be working elsewhere by the time a long term plan comes to fruition.
This isn't like a private business deciding to make less money for a while to make more money in the future, it's like a private business killing it's own profits so that a separate business in the future can make more money.
>>68204241
> I still haven't gotten an answer to why they want $15/hour or how they got to it
Maybe the magic number is 10, maybe it's 20. The goal should be that a full-time worker earns enough so as to not need any welfare benefits.
What is the more efficient model? Taxing the fuk out of the producers so that a huge social service bureaucracy can inefficiently give hand outs or just pay a worker enough to be self-sufficient?
>>68201996
Lack of ambition. Also people thinking they all need to go to college to be successful. Go learn how to be a plumber or a welder. Plenty of jobs and good pay.
>>68198516
Dumb asses think the rich will just lose money. They won't. They'll just make the shoppers pay more, which will hurt the middle class, and keep the lower class exactly the same.
>>68198516
>what is demand side economics
>>68205705
That really is not true. Many things do cause inflation without changing money supply. Higher wages can cause inflation as businesses can have customers pay higher prices for their goods.
>>68207193
Wages rise higher than inflation, leaving minimum wage workers with higher real income than before.
>>68207445
Not necessarily; the economy itself doesn't inflate uniformally. Min wage workers may end up paying the same for rent poportionally to their wage increase, but less for bread for a period of time as renters now have more competition for oprimal housing, yet workers don't necessairly buy 5x as much bread with a 5x pay increase . Keynesian policies tend to work better in a vacuum, fampai.
>>68207006
There's something even more efficient than either of those ideas and it's called minimum income. No more welfare, food stamps or minimum wage. You get a check every month that brings you up to the poverty line or thereabouts. If you want more, you work and your employer pays you exactly what they want to pay you. You want to stay home and raise the kids or be an artist, go for it. Every person that pulls them self out of the labor pool reduces the supply of labor and thus increases wages for workers without government mandate.
Generations of capitalists have gotten hype over this idea and then been buried by the jews.
>>68207840
>Min wage workers may end up paying the same for rent poportionally to their wage increase
>I just pull shit out of my ass
>>68207193
Subway can charge $15 a sandwich and blame it on increasing labor costs. Go ahead. Your neighbor will get a bank loan and start selling sandwiches for $10. That's the beauty of the free markets.
Pushing your costs onto the consumer instead of altering your model or investing in technology to be more efficient is a risk that can easily backfire.
>>68208260
Yes, it's a hypothetical situation that is pulled out of my ass.
At the end of the day the fundemental problem is that the real value of labor has not increased, while the value of goods has remained consistent. Inflation is not an easy to track statistic and is often influenced by a truly baffling amount of factors.
>>68208490
That implies changes are instant, and they rarely are. Besides, the new entrant to the market would also have to pay this higher wage regardless of the labor's real value.
>>68208130
I can't imagine that would be cheaper than what we have now in America which is qualified income and its still unsolvent because the fed dips into it.
Also I can't imagine that wouldn't reduce your currency value since everyone gets a certain amount per month. How would you account for rent/cost of living changes without paying some more and some less?
In my opinion I look at all these ideas and can only see them as being economically negative.
There seems to be a fantasy that the idea will improve the economy and help people, but how do you get more profit out of just giving people more tax money?
However I am in favor of people spending more money than the government. Which is why cutting taxes and reducing government spending sounds great.
Thats impossible though because the government kept infrastructure weak over the entire nation just for the purpose of forcing the issue to raise taxes someday.
>>68200569
>press a button, drone flies it to your door.
>implying that would be feasible for millions and millions of people
>implying a drone can transport the amount of things that people buy on a trip to the supermarket
You're some dumb fuck kiddo
>>68203662
No, I might go eat at the new local pizza shop, take my family to the movie theater, then save the rest in my bank account and start saving for college or trade school now that I can afford it to.
>>68208656
Productivity in an economy increases every year. Workers including minimum wage workers can have higher real income by that amount.
>>68204074
Chads and camwhores support Trump. Makes sense.
>>68204275
Uhh why would prices increase drastically if the sales increases?
Why would X raise the Y prices if people are buying more of Y and thus X's product?
>>68209192
Not only is that not true; you can have net productivity decreases, but why should they?
>>68207445
>Wages rise higher than inflation, leaving minimum wage workers with higher real income than before.
Those who fearmonger about how a hike in the minimum wage will be create inflation can't explain why we Americucks have seen increasing prices on consumer goods despite wages stagnating.
>>68198516
>what are corporate profits and shareholder payouts
are you seriously that retarded?
>>68198516
If walmart raised the minimum wage by just 50c they would have to triple the price of everything just to break even.
I work at a McDonalds. In my city, minimum wage is $11 an hour.
I don't really know if my labor is worth that much, but, seeing as how I'm employed, it must be, since both McDonalds and I have made an agreement that I work for that amount.
On the other hand though, down the street from me a Kohls and a Taco Bell recently closed. I know Kohls is having problems as a chain, and Taco Bell is just shit-tier, but, I wonder if it's spurred on by the minimum wage here?
