exports more goods and services to the EU than the United States of America... even though the US economy is 6 times bigger than your economy?
UK: USD 3 trillion nominal GDP, USD 250 billion exports to the EU
US: USD 19 trillion nominal GDP, USD 220 billion exports to the EU
Does that mean that it is actually not so easy to export that easily into the EU single market if a country is not a member of the EU?
>>68130993
Sure. On the other hand they trade a lot less in the commonwealth though as they cannot make their own trade deals due to Eu regulations
>>68130993
In other words the EU needs us a hell of a lot more than we need it, and there will be very little, if any, trade repercussions from leaving the EUSSR.
Nice try kike.
>>68132290
>On the other hand they trade a lot less in the commonwealth though as they cannot make their own trade deals due to Eu regulations
he EU has agreed free trade agreements (FTAs), or is in the process of negotiating free trade agreements, with the vast majority of Commonwealth states – a full 90% of the 50 Commonwealth countries that are not in the EU. This includes the six Commonwealth states that accounted (in 2011) for 84% of Commonwealth trade – and many more besides.
More precisely, there are already FTAs in force between the EU and 18 of those 50 Commonwealth states (36% of the remaining Commonwealth). The EU has agreed FTAs with 14 of those countries (28%), subject only to completing the ratification process. It is negotiating or about to start negotiating FTAs with 13 states (26%). That leaves only 5 Commonwealth states (10% of the non-EU total) that the EU is not planning FTA talks with. (For full details of the status of EU trade relations with each of the countries concerned, with links to further information, see the annex to this blog post).
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.de/2015/11/the-eu-or-commonwealth-dilemma-for-uk.html
>>68132447
>In other words the EU needs us a hell of a lot more than we need it, and there will be very little, if any, trade repercussions from leaving the EUSSR.
For goods trading, that is absolutely true. There is no way that the UK would not get the status of Canada or Australia or the US. It is also not possible to really stop goods trading if you are in the WTO.
It is a completely different picture for non-tariff barriers and services exports/imports. That is a question of adopting the exact same regulations and laws for regulatory purposes etc. So if the UK is outside of the EU, then it will just not be possible to really continue these types of exports, similarly to the EU states will not be able to somehow adopt UK regulations in order to trade with the UK in those areas.
I assume UK exports to the EU will drop to 2/3 or 1/2 of what they are now.
>>68130993
If brexit happens its merkle who is to blame
>>68132998
>I assume UK exports to the EU will drop to 2/3 or 1/2 of what they are now.
1. That's a big assumption to make
2. There will be a net positive on our economy and health as a country from the halt of the EU's main export of pakis and albanians
>>68132757
FTAs aka TPP. In any case if those countries can have such great free trade deals with the EU without being members then so can the UK. The US just isn't that big of an exporter relative to its size anyways so the UK keeping up with them isn't too much of a surprise. Physical proximity with the ability to transport thing by truck or train also helps ofc. Don't think there will be to much of a loss of the UK leaves the EU unless the people running the EU want to make an example of them and don't make any deals
>>68130993
Switzerland exports more than us to the EU.
It is to do with geography.
>>68132998
>So if the UK is outside of the EU, then it will just not be possible to really continue these types of exports, similarly to the EU states will not be able to somehow adopt UK regulations in order to trade with the UK in those areas.
In short: the UK has to meet EU standards to trade with the EU, just like any other non-EU country.
>>68134155
Whoops, I am from the UK.
>>68130993
Does any Brit care about the economic problems at the moment?
I tell you what I'm concerned about the most. Crazy germans continuing to keep that tyrant Merkel in power, she eventually decides to give EU passports to those lovely, liberal loving rapefugees and they decide to set their eyes on the UK.
We have enough of a sandnigger problem as it is, we don't need the EU helping with that. I'm voting out.
>>68134520
both economic and immigration for me
>>68133361
>If brexit happens its merkle who is to blame
I thought it would be the choice of the majority of Brits? Did I miss something, does Merkel have a super-vote?
>>68133456
>1. That's a big assumption to make
It is based on the fact that the US exports 7 times less to the EU than the UK.
>2. There will be a net positive on our economy and health as a country from the halt of the EU's main export of pakis and albanians
Since when do Pakis and Albanians come to the UK via the EU? The UK lets them in based on national immigration laws.
>>68134582
I really don't mind being poor. As long as I know Krauts don't export their waste to us because they can't be bothered to pay for it themselves.
because we have a political choice between
incompetent ''for the working class'' liberal cucks or fucking posh boys who only care about making the rich richer
>>68134155
>Switzerland exports more than us to the EU.
Switzerland exports 150 billion to the EU and imports 90 billion from the EU, both of which is a lot less in trade than the UK does with the EU. On a per capita basis it is more. Switzerland adopts all single markets rules.
>>68134356
>In short: the UK has to meet EU standards to trade with the EU, just like any other non-EU country.
Yes, but we an all safely assume that the UK's laws will progressively deviate from the EU laws, which means manufacturers will have to adopt different standards for different markets.
Not to mention that services require the same regulations adopted by the state and treaties for reciprocity acknowledgement which have not been adopted anywhere in the world outside the Swiss-EU and Norway-EU relationship.
>>68134955
If there is a brexit, I'm certain theres going to be a leadership challenge. IDS and over cabinet ministers are gonna propel Based Boris into leadership.
Imagine him going over to Europe, embarrassing the Krauts as he takes the piss out of Merkel. Hopefully he knocks out one of the fucks in a game of rugby or football or something. It'd be hilarious.
>>68134520
the people who suffer from an economic downturn definitely care.
As to the German passports for asylum seekers, that is a long time until this happens. 10 years from permanent residency and then lots of elements including language skills and integration into German society and a steady job have to be present to get a passport.
The naturalizations in Germany that happen each year are actually very few, somewhere in less than 0.1% of the population.
>>68135339
>Imagine him going over to Europe, embarrassing the Krauts as he takes the piss out of Merkel. Hopefully he knocks out one of the fucks in a game of rugby or football or something. It'd be hilarious.
You mean how Varoufakis showed it to Schäuble? Yes, that really worked out well for Greece...
>>68135382
>As to the German passports for asylum seekers, that is a long time until this happens. 10 years from permanent residency and then lots of elements including language skills and integration into German society and a steady job have to be present to get a passport.
>The naturalizations in Germany that happen each year are actually very few, somewhere in less than 0.1% of the population.
And you expect me to believe this with someone like Merkel at the helm? Either way, if we stay in, they're going to become citizens. And you fucking traitorous scummy Krauts will definitely give them the push.
>You mean how Varoufakis showed it to Schäuble? Yes, that really worked out well for Greece...
Boris isn't Varoufakis.
>>68130993
Still voting OUT
Pride + Sovreignty > Money
>>68135040
Indeed, given that the UK has a much larger economy, it exports more, but the relevant measure, factoring in the difference in economy sizes, shows that Switzerland exports much more than the UK.
Ergo, the UK would export more to the EU if it left, following your logic.
>Switzerland adopts all single markets rules.
What you mean is: Switzeland meets EU requirements when it trades with the EU.
Yep, that is how trade works.
>>68135212
>Yes, but we an all safely assume that the UK's laws will progressively deviate from the EU laws, which means manufacturers will have to adopt different standards for different markets.
Good.
>Not to mention that services require the same regulations adopted by the state and treaties for reciprocity acknowledgement which have not been adopted anywhere in the world outside the Swiss-EU and Norway-EU relationship.
This doesn't even make sense.
>>68130993
Exporter here. 20yrs ago our market was 100% domestic(UK)
10yrs ago it was 50/50 UK/EU(mainly Germany, northern EU)
Now its 50 UK/EU -50 ROTW
Trend is heading towards ROTW, worry was China but they make complete rubbish, no dramas turned up from there.
Leaving the EU and having weaker Sterling over the short-medium term would be terrific for cracking those non-eu markets (southern europe just doesnt buy anything, superior or not). ROTW want our shit, dry bulk is extremely cheap, product is just too expensive atm.
>>68136451
Good exporter/importers who deal with non-specialized goods will not have a problem.
It is the service companies, banks, insurers, IT companies, biotech, research companies, consulters and high tech goods exporters and importers which will have a problem following Brexit.
And yes, I agree, our business will probably profit from the weaker Sterling and the stronger focus on ROTW. So you should probably vote OUT.
Oh look its this thread again from Eternal Kraut.
>>68136417
>This doesn't even make sense.
In simple English: UK outside EU - then UK can't export services easily or at all to EU, e.g. financial services require the same financial regulation - this is why US banks cannot provide financial services in the EU without an EU banking license
>>68136417
>What you mean is: Switzeland meets EU requirements when it trades with the EU.
No, Switzerland ACTUALLY adopts all single markets rules, including for purely internal Swiss business - this is a prerequisite for accessing the EU single market. That also includes adopting the 4 freedoms - free movement of goods, services, capital and workers.
>>68135382
"
Recent analysis suggests that George Osborne will only be able to deliver his economic target of a budget surplus by 2019/2020 if the number of immigrants coming to the UK exceeds current levels. Assuming this is true, would you prefer…?
To increase current levels of immigration from the EU so that UK can hit economic targets 21%
Maintain or reduce current levels of immigration and miss economic targets 78%"
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/20/britons-on-europe-survey-results-opinium-poll-referendum
Brits actually would rather see the economy suffer a bit so long as it means deceasing immigration.
>>68137046
>Brits actually would rather see the economy suffer a bit so long as it means deceasing immigration.
Yes, I would say the same for Germany.
But there is a different between "hitting economic targets of a budget surplus" and falling into an economic recession with hundreds of thousands of job losses in the span of 2-3 years.
And yes, it is entirely possible that the UK goes into recession in case of an OUT vote due to the halt of foreign investments and the period of uncertainty following the OUT vote.
>>68136755
Need to drop the City of London, 10% of GDP but it makes Sterling too pricey, let Frankfurt or Paris have it. Its manufacturing this country needs TC has kept sterling too high for decades at a cost to all exporters/manufacturing sectors (along with militant unions). The UK gas been trying to export its service sector to Europe for decades and has barely got anywhere.
>>68130993
>Does that mean that it is actually not so easy to export that easily into the EU single market if a country is not a member of the EU?
No it means America has access to other markets. Of course we trade more with Europe since you're on our doorstep. America meanwhile can just as easily go to Asia as it can Europe
>>68130993
>Does that mean that it is actually not so easy to export that easily into the EU single market if a country is not a member of the EU?
Yes
Also tariffs are a bitch, plus we kinda don't make anywhere near as much stuff as we used to
>>68137451
>The UK gas been trying to export its service sector to Europe for decades and has barely got anywhere.
Because a services union is fucking hard to establish. There isn't a single trade zone in this world which has a services union. The EU is the first and only one which started to slowly establish one and with the services directive which is currently being finalized this will spur a lot of growth and market integration in services.
>>68137577
>No it means America has access to other markets.
How is that relevant? If America could easily sell into the EU, it would do that, don't you think? But the problem for US companies is that they have to overcome non-tariff trade barriers such as standards etc. in order to successfully export. This is why a lot of US companies don't do it.
If the UK was outside the EU and had its own laws, the same would hold true for a lot of UK businesses. They would just not try to access the EU single market due to the dual UK and EU requirements they would have to comply with.
>>68137659
>Also tariffs are a bitch
There is very little in terms of tariffs between the EU and the US. There are, however, a shitload of non-tariff barriers which are the subject of the TTIP negotiations.
-----
EU and United States
Given the low average tariffs (under 3%), the key to unlocking this potential lies in the tackling of non-tariff barriers. These consist mainly of customs procedures and behind the border regulatory restrictions.
The non-tariff barriers come from diverging regulatory systems (standards definitions notably), but also other non-tariff measures, such as those related to certain aspects of security or consumer protection.
The Transatlantic Economic Council was set up in 2007 to guide and stimulate the work on transatlantic economic convergence. The TEC is currently the only EU-US high level forum in which economic issues can be discussed in a coherent and coordinated manner. It brings together a wide range of ongoing economic cooperation activities in issues of mutual interest and provides for a platform to give political guidance and direction to this work. At the same time, the TEC provides for a political forum for discussing strategic global economic questions.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/united-states/
>>68136881
>>In simple English: UK outside EU - then UK can't export services easily or at all to EU
Services are a part of trade deals. Access for British services would come as part of a trade deal.
>>68137023
>No, Switzerland ACTUALLY adopts all single markets rules
>But instead of laws constantly flowing into its legal system, it negotiates new treaties or amends old ones in return for access to the single market and other EU activities.
https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/
Switzerland doesn't adopt all EU market rules.
Switzerland signs pacts with the EU, with the EU essentially saying: Switzerland is fine to trade with.
>>68138286
>If America could easily sell into the EU, it would do that, don't you think
Yes but if they can just as easily sell into Asia there's literally no incentive for them to come to the EU, especially for west coast based companies
>They would just not try to access the EU single market due to the dual UK and EU requirements they would have to comply with.
I'm pretty sure they would still try because
a)we're still meeting those standards anyway and
b)It's still the easiest market for geopolitical reasons
>>68137289
We won't go into recession, though.
Basically all of Europe trades easily with one another, whether EU or non-EU.
The only sanctions the EU puts on anyone is Belarus and Russia. Will the UK be sanctioned like those countries? I don't think so.
>>68138487
>Services are a part of trade deals. Access for British services would come as part of a trade deal.
The EU only allows Norway and the Switzerland to export services to the EU single market and even for those two countries which adopt all EU single market rules, there are limits.
It is pretty much impossible that services access to the EU single market would be granted to the UK without e.g. adopting the 4 freedoms... which is the very reason the UK wants to leave the EU.
>>68138487
>Switzerland doesn't adopt all EU market rules.
It adopts all key rules, e.g. the 4 freedoms. And that is a prerequisite for their access of the single market.
>>68138286
Canada sells into the US.
And the UK would sell into Europe.
This is more about geography.
Again, I bring up Switzerland. It has free trade deals with the EU. It doesn't adopt all EU law.
>>68138555
>Yes but if they can just as easily sell into Asia there's literally no incentive for them to come to the EU, especially for west coast based companies
That makes no sense. It is not like America has limited goods to sell. If they could sell more to Europe they would. They want to sell more, as much as they can.
>>68138555
>I'm pretty sure they would still try because
>a)we're still meeting those standards anyway
But the hole point of the Brexit is to exit those standards and adopt your own ones - this is what the Brexit campaign argues, that once the UK leaves it can make its own rules which are less burdensome than the EU single market rules.
>Switzerland ACTUALLY adopts all single markets rules
This is a lie that the IN camp trumping out, same as Norway, they don't adapt ALL single market rules. A quick google search with show that.
>>68138656
>whether EU or non-EU.
That is just wrong. Very wrong. If the EU were pointless, why do you think business wants to have the EU single market? And yes, business wants it - in Germany it is pretty much 90%+ of the businesses who want the EU, same in most other EU countries - even in the UK the vast majority of businesses want the EU.
No EU means no single market means less trade and no services exported or imported because there is no rule framework and national protection... I have witnessed that in the 1990s, it was horrible for business.
>>68138656
>Will the UK be sanctioned like those countries?
You do realize there is a difference between being outside of the EU and being sanctions? And that there is a reason why there is intensive trade and integration between EU countries whereas outside the EU that is not the case?
>>68138852
>Canada sells into the US.
Yes, it does. There is NAFTA.
But even with NAFTA, Canada's trade with the US is less prominent than the economic integration between EU states.
It is more of a situation between Texas selling into the rest of the US.
>>68138792
>The EU only allows Norway and the Switzerland to export services to the EU single market and even for those two countries which adopt all EU single market rules, there are limits.
This is just nonsense.
There is a General Agreement on the Trade of Services (GATS) with the WTO. We can fall back on that if nothing else.
The idea that doing service business with the EU is only allowable if you ae in the EU single market is nonsense.
>>68139275
No, it is not.
----
he cornerstone of EU-Swiss relations is the Free Trade Agreement of 1972.
As a consequence of the rejection of the EEA membership in 1992, Switzerland and the EU agreed on a package of seven sectoral agreements signed in 1999 (known in Switzerland as "Bilaterals I"). These include: free movement of persons, technical trade barriers, public procurement, agriculture and air and land transport. In addition, a scientific research agreement fully associated Switzerland into the EU's framework research programmes.
A further set of sectoral agreements was signed in 2004 (known as "Bilaterals II"), covering, inter alia, Switzerland's participation in Schengen and Dublin, and agreements on taxation of savings, processed agricultural products, statistics, combating fraud, participation in the EU Media Programme, the Environment Agency, and Swiss financial contributions to economic and social cohesion in the new EU Member States.
In 2010 an agreement was signed on Swiss participation in EU education, professional training and youth programmes.
In overall, around 100 bilateral agreements currently exist between the EU and Switzerland.
The on-going implementation of these agreements obliges Switzerland to take over relevant Community legislation in the covered sectors.
These bilateral agreements between the EU and Switzerland are currently managed through a structure of more than 15 joint committees.
>>68133766
And if they do 'make an example out of us' as you said then they'd lose out more than we would, as we import more than we export and could make more trade deals elsewhere to help plug the gap.
Then there's the moral question of whether we want to be in a union with a continent that would aggressively try to damage us because we decide we want independence, which flies in the face of 'they're our friends and neighbours' argument of the Remain campaign.
>>68130993
OP pic is setting sights on My Dick
>>68139573
>There is a General Agreement on the Trade of Services (GATS) with the WTO. We can fall back on that if nothing else.
Yes, you can.
But you do understand what non-tariff barriers are, right? You do understand why TTIP is negotiated, right?
>>68139573
>The idea that doing service business with the EU is only allowable if you ae in the EU single market is nonsense.
It is the law, not nonsense. A foreign bank cannot sell any services into the EU market - it has to have a EU banking license and office being supervised by an EU state banking authority and the EBA to sell anything into the EU single market.
>>68139692
>And if they do 'make an example out of us' as you said then they'd lose out more than we would,
How so? Goods trading is governed by WTO rules as well, so the UK cannot block German cars exported to the UK.
Meanwhile, financial services require passporting rights into the EU - something not governed by the WTO treaties.
>>68139709
Good...
>>68139576
>The charge is that Norway has no vote in some EU regulations that it later enforces. But this is more a problem in theory than in practice. According to the EFTA Secretariat, the EU generated 52,183 legal instruments between 2000 and 2013, of which Norway adopted 4,724 — 9 per cent. A written answer to a parliamentary question in Iceland found a similar proportion: 6,326 out of 62,809 EU legal acts between 1994 and 2014.
>>68140162
It is a question of WHAT laws, not the quantity.
How is it possible to argue it is both 9% and 75%?
Firstly, the 9% figure: This comes from the Norwegian No campaign and is based on a study by Morten Harper that, based on a Eur-Lex search, compared all EU Directives, Regulations and legislative acts (a depressing 52,183 from 2000-2013) with the number enacted in the EEA agreement – 4,724. Making the proportion of EU legislative enacted in Norway 9.05%.
The 75% figure comes from a study commissioned by the Norwegian Government into the impact of the EEA “Outside and Inside”. This study, rather than counting the number of EU laws, tried to estimate the effect of the laws in Norway. It concluded “approximately three quarters of substantive EU law and policy” in the EEA comes from the EU. [This study is of EU laws enacted, not the proportion of Norwegian laws that come from the EU]
http://christopherhowarth.uk/how-much-eu-law-does-norway-have-to-adopt-9-or-75/
>>68139362
>>That is just wrong. Very wrong. If the EU were pointless, why do you think business wants to have the EU single market?
In UK small businesses are 50/50.
Big businesses want it because they want the regulations that benefit them to span as much area as possible.
>No EU means no single market means less trade and no services exported or imported because there is no rule framework and national protection... I have witnessed that in the 1990s, it was horrible for business.
Ugh, being outside the EU means setting up a trade deal with the EU, just like we do with others.
>>68139442
There is NAFTA, and there was trade before NAFTA.
Trade doesn't require political union.
>>68141005
>In UK small businesses are 50/50.
>small businesses
>small
Of course, if I were a taxi driver or a plumber, why the hell would I want to be in the EU?
I am talking about the engines of the high tech and services economy, the big ones.
>>68141005
>Ugh, being outside the EU means setting up a trade deal with the EU, just like we do with others.
A free trade deal is NOT the same as EU membership. That is why trade will decrease and services exports, especially financial services exports, will decrease the most.
>>68141005
>There is NAFTA, and there was trade before NAFTA.
>Trade doesn't require political union.
That is the fallacy which people apparently really believe. Of course there was always trade. The question is how much was there? The EU was set up to increase trade and it has succeeded beyond people's wildest dreams in how much internal trade there could be.
As to political union, it depends on your definition of what "political" is. Is it a political union if you set certain minimum standards for workers' conditions, in order to achieve a level playing field amogn companies in the EU?
Is it a political union if we talk about creating a system of health insurance compensation payments creating a system in which EU citizens can get healthcare treatment in the whole EU?
Is it a political union if there are common banking laws and insurance laws standards or common anti-trust laws and a common anti-trust authority?
>>68136307
this
>>68130993
Couldn't the UK just leave the EU (political organization) and remain in the European Economic Area? That way trade won't be affected.
>>68140162
I like this stat.
Totally BTFOs the people who say Norway has to adopt all EU law.
>>68139852
>But you do understand what non-tariff barriers are, right? You do understand why TTIP is negotiated, right?
>It is the law, not nonsense. A foreign bank cannot sell any services into the EU market - it has to have a EU banking license and office being supervised by an EU state banking authority and the EBA to sell anything into the EU single market.
This is all sayign the same thing:
We need to make sure we conform with regulations. Got it.
I've been to The City, I've seen foreign banks. They aren't illegal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_the_United_Kingdom#UK_retail_banking_brands_owned_by_foreign_banks
Here is a list.
>>68141724
>I've been to The City, I've seen foreign banks. They aren't illegal.
They need an EU banking license, staff to comply with the laws and cannot just be a "front" for NY bankers doing the job - the jobs have to be done on location.
Or in other words, if the UK leaves and there is no special treaty (which not even Swittzerland has) then a shitload of City jobs would have to be physically performed in the EU rather than from London.
That was how things were done back before the EU was established up until the 1990s when banking passporting was established.
>>68141692
>Couldn't the UK just leave the EU (political organization) and remain in the European Economic Area?
Yes, but the UK's political establishment could not stay in power with such a deal. The EEA requires the UK to adopt a shitload of laws over time and changes, it is virtually impossible to sell that to the British public - it would be seen as a step down in sovereignty.
That is why most people agree that the UK free trade treaty negotations with the EU will be a bit like the one the EU just had with Canada (CETA).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement
>>68141430
>I am talking about the engines of the high tech and services economy, the big ones.
Yep. I don't really like them.
Microsoft, Facebook, etc. are all passionately anti-Trump.
It is big business that is harming The West.
Anyway, Switzerland has some of the biggest companies in the world. And it manages it without being in the EU.
>A free trade deal is NOT the same as EU membership. That is why trade will decrease and services exports, especially financial services exports, will decrease the most.
Perhaps.
>>68140747
Did you even read what you copy and pasted?
75% of EEA laws come from the EU.
9% of Norwegian laws from the EU.
That is pretty impressive, actually. 25% of substantive EEA law coming from non-EU nations.
>>68142249
>Anyway, Switzerland has some of the biggest companies in the world. And it manages it without being in the EU.
I posted above how they deal with the EU. The Swiss approach is not a sensisble or viable relationship for the UK and the EU. There are 110 agreements and the Swiss have to automatically adopt new single markets laws to have these agreements stay in force.
>>68142249
>Did you even read what you copy and pasted?
>75% of EEA laws come from the EU.
>9% of Norwegian laws from the EU.
That is my point - 75% of EU laws is a shitload if you have no say in it.
Not to mention that Norway is also not a working approach for the UK and the EU, because Norway has the 4 freedoms... and as you know the freedom of movement for EU citizens is at the core of the Brexit campaign. People will burn anyone alive who suggest that post-Brexit immigration from the EU just continues as before without any changes.
>>68141430
>>That is the fallacy which people apparently really believe. Of course there was always trade. The question is how much was there? The EU was set up to increase trade and it has succeeded beyond people's wildest dreams in how much internal trade there could be.
You're talking to someone who doesn't particularly like globalisation.
The corporations can't have a one-world-market-place to control? Fine by me.
Anyway, Europe hasn't grown spectacularly. Stop painting the picture that the EU boosted European growth or something. It didn't. The UK has grown at the global average rate since joining the EU. Nothing spectacular.
>As to political union, it depends on your definition of what "political" is.
How about: Having a foreign parliament and foreign supreme court deciding laws that take precedent over national law?
>>68142042
>They need an EU banking license, staff to comply with the laws and cannot just be a "front" for NY bankers doing the job - the jobs have to be done on location.
Okay, now go and look at that list and see the banks which apparently have an EU banking licence. Nigerians and Sri Lankan banks can apparently get them, so I think the UK can too.
>Or in other words, if the UK leaves and there is no special treaty (which not even Swittzerland has) then a shitload of City jobs would have to be physically performed in the EU rather than from London.
No, no no.
If the UK left the EU and somehow negotiated worse than Nigeria, we might be screwed.
>>68135382
>the people who suffer from an economic downturn definitely care.
Oh yeah and more globalism in the form of the EUSSR is really going to help them.
Most new jobs created go straight to poles, that's the only reason anyone in the UK is poor.
>muh economy
I literally don't care, you kraut piece of shit.
>>68142948
>The corporations can't have a one-world-market-place to control? Fine by me.
In that case you vote OUT. Fine with me.
>>68142948
>Europe hasn't grown spectacularly.
BEcause of stagnant population growth.
>>68142948
>Stop painting the picture that the EU boosted European growth or something.
It definitely did, massively actually. Free trade creates jobs and promotes growth. Look at the pic related.
It is the countries which have overspent or have been corrupt which have not profited from the EU such as Cyprus or Greece.
>>68142855
>That is my point - 75% of EU laws is a shitload if you have no say in it.
No, Norway makes up a tiny % of EEA members, but apparently contributes ~25% of substantive law.
>here are 110 agreements and the Swiss have to automatically adopt new single markets laws to have these agreements stay in force.
No they don't.
They have bilateral agreements which give Switzerland access to the market. They don't automatically adopt any law. They do it manually with new bilateral agreements.
>>68130993
The EU needs us more than we need the EU. We'll be fine.
>>68143156
>Nigerians and Sri Lankan banks can apparently get them
Can you name those Sri Lankan and Nigerian banks which apparently are big in the EU?
>>68143156
>If the UK left the EU and somehow negotiated worse than Nigeria, we might be screwed.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/brexit-would-lead-to-loss-of-100000-bank-jobs-says-city-a3124661.html
A vote to quit the European Union would trigger a flood of up to 100,000 banking jobs out of London, senior City figures have warned.
One board-level banker told the Standard that “Brexit” would force dozens of banks that have their European headquarters in London to relocate highly-paid professionals to rival EU financial centres such as Frankfurt, Luxembourg and Dublin.
He estimated that staffing levels at some investment banks in London could fall by as much as half, with a huge knock-on effect for the broader economy and property prices.
The banking chief, who did not want to be identified, said: “I don’t think people here have any idea just how much the other European centres would love to have the jobs and tax revenues we bring to London.
Jesus, they really are getting nervous and desperate in equal measure, aren't they?
>>68143368
>They don't automatically adopt any law.
This is not how it works, I have quoted it above.
--------
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/switzerland/
In overall, around 100 bilateral agreements currently exist between the EU and Switzerland.
The on-going implementation of these agreements obliges Switzerland to take over relevant Community legislation in the covered sectors.
----
Or in other words, Switzerland has only two options - 1. it stops all its preferential market access to the EU, or 2. it adopts all relevant EU law required to access the EU automatically.
>>68130993
The eu has free trade agreements with them so it's not surprising. Also because Britain is closer it is much cheaper for them to do business with the eu, it's called gravity theory of trade nigger
>>68143553
Yes
Especially if Brexit can use the Turk deal properly
>>68143445
>The EU needs us more than we need the EU.
How so?
If the UK leaves, Germany can still machinery and cars to the UK - based on WTO treaties.
The UK can not sell financial services to the EU, because outside the EU you cannot passport your BRitish banking license to the EU.
The EU has little to lose with no trade deal with the UK or a lose deal. The UK has a shit load to lose.
>>68143992
>The UK has a shit load to lose.
And even more to gain
REMINDER THAT THIS IS A TURK OR JEW POSTING AND HE ONLY WANTS TO PREVENT BREXIT BECAUSE BREXIT LET'S THE BRITS TAKE BACK THEIR COUNTRY AND IS THUS EVIL TO JEWS.
>>68143881
>The eu has free trade agreements with them so it's not surprising.
With whom?
The UK is part of the EU. There are no free trade deals, there just is EU membership.
>>68143342
>It definitely did, massively actually. Free trade creates jobs and promotes growth. Look at the pic related.
Incomes have stagnated for most people whilst the top 1% have become more rich.
That is what free trade gets you.
It isn't free trade, either. It is thousands upon thousands of regulations which benefit the already-rich.
>It is the countries which have overspent or have been corrupt which have not profited from the EU such as Cyprus or Greece.
Again, we haven't profited from the EU. We have grown pretty much average.
Switzerland and Norway, of course, have done the best in the post-war world, and have pretty much the highest living standards... wait for it... wait for it..... without the EU.
Or take Austria. It joined in 1995. Growth has been similar to what it was before. Pic related.
>>68144095
>And even more to gain
From where? From whom?
Africa? Africa's economy is as large as... wait... the Netherlands.
From the Commonwealth? You do know that 90% of the 50 Commonwealth countries either have free trade treaties with the EU, are currently ratifying them or negotiating them?
With South America - well, go ahead, your relationship with them is pretty much the same as the EU has... except that Germany has lots of links to Brazil and Argentina due to all the Nazis that left there.
And then there is China - the EU is China's biggest trading partner, even more so than the US. Go ahead and see if you can do better without us there.
>>68144124
>REMINDER THAT THIS IS A TURK OR JEW POSTING AND HE ONLY WANTS TO PREVENT BREXIT BECAUSE BREXIT LET'S THE BRITS TAKE BACK THEIR COUNTRY AND IS THUS EVIL TO JEWS.
I am 100% behind Brexit.
And my ethnicity is Germanic, Celtic, 1/8th Jewish and a bit of Slovenian.
So not sure why your allcap that nonsense.
>>68144383
>Europe is 51% of the market
>this reality
pic 1
Britain no longer needs the cancer that is the EU leeching on it - enjoy your wave of subhumans Mama Merkel let in
>>68144484
>Jewish
Please leave.
>>68142226
CETA is a piece of shit tho.
>>68144363
>Incomes have stagnated for most people whilst the top 1% have become more rich.
>That is what free trade gets you.
BS, that is a choice each state makes. You can reduce inequality by redistributing wealth - something the EU is not opposed to, every country can do that.
>>68144363
>Again, we haven't profited from the EU. We have grown pretty much average.
You would have grown less outside without access to the EU single market.
Britain was the sick man of Europe in the 1970s, it was the EC and establishing London as the EC's financial capital that pulled the UK through.
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/12/16/sick-man-europe-britain-and-nonsensical-eu-referendum.html
>>68144746
>CETA is a piece of shit tho.
And that is what the UK will get. A piece of shit deal.
>>68144982
How about they make a deal with an old friend like Canada and we ditch CETA? Yeah, I like that. Let's make the Commonwealth great again.
>>68143515
>Can you name those Sri Lankan and Nigerian banks which apparently are big in the EU?
Didn't say they were big. Just pointed out that they are allowed to operate.
Zenith Bank, Nigeria
ICICI, India.
>>68143515
>>A vote to quit the European Union would trigger a flood of up to 100,000 banking jobs out of London, senior City figures have warned.
Doesn't make me scared.
The same people would say that Hong Kong and Singapore would fail, but they didn't.
Again, big business wants to be in the EU because they believe in the world run by corporations. I don't.
>>68143870
>Or in other words, Switzerland has only two options - 1. it stops all its preferential market access to the EU, or 2. it adopts all relevant EU law required to access the EU automatically.
Not quite. Switzerland has chooses which bits it wants to adopt in bilateral agreements. There are a few agreements which came as a package, and stopping one of them will terminate the others. The other ones can be terminated at any time, though.
>Most of the agreements are contracts in their own right and can be terminated separately at
any time. The third to the ninth of the main agreements above, however, were concluded as
a package, so termination of one of them would automatically result in all ceasing to apply.
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06090#fullreport
>>68145889
>How about they make a deal with an old friend like Canada and we ditch CETA?
Canada is much more interest in a deal with a market of 500 million people than a market of 60 million.
>>68145953
>Not quite. Switzerland has chooses which bits it wants to adopt in bilateral agreements. There are a few agreements which came as a package,
The Bilateral I agreements are expressed to be mutually dependent. If any one of them is denounced or not renewed, they all cease to apply. According to the preamble of the EU decision ratifying the agreements:
The seven agreements are intimately linked to one another by the requirement that they are to come into force at the same time and that they are to cease to apply at the same time, six months after the receipt of a non-renewal or denunciation notice concerning any one of them.
This is referred to as the "Guillotine clause".
>>68144834
>You can reduce inequality by redistributing wealth
Ah okay, so the EU's free trade gives us a choice between stagnating wages and state redistribution.
Great.
>>68144834
>You would have grown less outside without access to the EU single market.
>Britain was the sick man of Europe in the 1970s, it was the EC and establishing London as the EC's financial capital that pulled the UK through.
Oh okay, so the EU takes credit for the UK getting better, but not for the Med stagnating.
The EU hasn't had great growth, and it hasn't seemed to boost growth for countries which joined it versus countries which haven't.
>http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/12/16/sick-man-europe-britain-and-nonsensical-eu-referendum.html
>Hence the xenophobia of the anti-EU brigade exemplified by the overwhelmingly anti-European and anti-immigrant Conservative Party and it’s even more extreme twin the vile United Kingdom Independence Party.
Ahahaha.
Love how cucked pro-EU people are.
We were in the EEC for years with shitty growth. Thatcher changed it, not the EU.
>>68146367
Yes, 7 agreements.
Out of hundreds.
>>68146825
>Yes, 7 agreements.
>Out of hundreds.
It is the 7 framework agreements for the EU single market.
Bilateral I agreements (signed 1999, in force 1 June 2002)
Free movement of people
Air traffic
Road traffic
Agriculture
Technical trade barriers
Public procurement
Science
Bilateral II agreements
Security and asylum and Schengen membership
Cooperation in fraud pursuits
Final stipulations in open questions about agriculture, environment, media, education, care of the elderly, statistics and services
>>68140747
Wow, are you an actual EU shill? Fuck off.
>>68134777
We have no control over inter-EU immigration, thanks Brussels.
>>68147227
One of the biggest arguments the EU shills had was that Norway adopts all EU law.
Actual Norwegian stats show they adopt a small amount of EU law, so their argument has been BTFO and they are panicking.
In the EU:
Adopt all EU law and have your own laws overruled
Out the EU:
Make your own laws whilst still trading and cooperating with other European counties, but you won't be politically ruled by the globalist, immigration-loving SJWs of the EU.
The choice it clear.
>>68147501
I like having a black ID tag. Looks cool.
>>68147337
>We have no control over inter-EU immigration, thanks Brussels.
Incorrect.
The UK has control over immigration from EU citizens in so far as welfare does not have to be paid and even in work-benefits can be curtailed. The UK can also deport EU citizens if they cannot support themselves. The UK can also demand that EU citizens who come to the UK and have no job lined up and no assets to support themselves, not be granted entry.
Lastly, the UK could change the NHS system into an insurance system paid through fees by the people, thus requiring EU citizens to pay for insurance rather than just get it atuomatically.
etc.
There is a shitload that the UK can do for immigration from the EU. It is national politicians who don't want to do anything.
>>68147501
Norway just is not a model that the UK can or will ever want to follow.
------
Through the EEA Agreement, the three EFTA states Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein are equal partners in the EU internal market, on the same terms as the EU member states. This includes having access to the internal market’s four freedoms: the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital.
The EEA Agreement is the most far-reaching economic agreement Norway has entered into, and by far the single most important agreement regulating the relationship between Norway and the EU. In fact, over 80 per cent of our exports go to the EU, and more than 60 per cent of our imports come from EU countries.
Moreover, the Agreement also covers cooperation in other important areas such as research and development, education, social policy, the environment, consumer protection, tourism and culture. It also enables the three EEA EFTA states to participate in various EU programmes. Norway also participates in the activities of a number of EU agencies through provisions in the EEA Agreement or on the basis of bilateral agreements.
Norway and the EU also cooperate extensively in the field of justice and home affairs, for instance through the Schengen Agreement. Energy and climate, fisheries, maritime affairs, research and education are other important areas of cooperation. When it comes to foreign and security policy, Norway is engaged in a substantial policy dialogue with the EU, primarily with the European External Action Service (EEAS).
Norway shares a common set of values with the EU and its member states, and we are working together to find joint solutions to common challenges. On www.eu-norway.org you will find information about the areas in which Norway and the EU cooperate, and the extent of our cooperation. The scope and depth of our relations may surprise you.
http://www.eu-norway.org/eu/norway_and_the_eu/#.Vu8C8sd_hCI
>>68147737
>>The UK has control over immigration from EU citizens in so far as welfare does not have to be paid and even in work-benefits can be curtailed.
Ahahaha. "Control".
>W-we can't give you quite as much in benefits, Mr. Europoor
Control means saying: We're not going to allow so many people to come in.
We can't do that.
>The UK can also deport EU citizens if they cannot support themselves.
>The UK can also demand that EU citizens who come to the UK and have no job lined up and no assets to support themselves, not be granted entry.
Almost certainly incorrect.
>>68147948
I am not even arguing that we need to follow Norway.
I am just pointing out the common lie in the anti-Norway argument.
I don't like pro-EU people. They are so dishonest.
>>68139692
They are already trying to exert power they shouldn't really have, just imagine what will happen once there is a united European army. They will probably just threaten to invade whatever country doesn't fall in line. Add to that a "democratic" system where a lot of officials are appointed instead of elected, there are insufficient mechanisms to boot people out of office by popular vote and money is siphoned from member states and paid out at the discretion of the EU and you have some real problems. We already have that with Merkel, which runs an immigration policy that according to surveys the vast majority of her parties voters doesn't agree with, don't make that same mistake. Vote leave
>>68148021
>>W-we can't give you quite as much in benefits, Mr. Europoor
As in 0. You do not have to give EU citizens any welfare.
>>68148021
>We're not going to allow so many people to come in.
Really? How come you let in more people from outside the EU than from in the EU then? Apparently you can't curtail immigration from outside the EU either.
>>68148021
>Almost certainly incorrect.
If you've been legally resident in the Common Travel Area for a continuous period of at least five years you may have a permanent right to reside. If you have a permanent right to reside you don't need to show that you have a right to reside for any other reason - for example, you don't have to show that you're a worker. Throughout the five years you must have been one of the following:
a job-seeker
a worker
self-employed
a former worker who has kept your worker status
a student who is self-sufficient
self-sufficient and supporting yourself financially
a family member of a person in one of these groups.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-and-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-other-ways-to-get-rights/you-are-an-eea-national-with-a-permanent-right-to-reside-in-the-uk/
>>68148154
>I am just pointing out the common lie in the anti-Norway argument.
What common lie?
Does Norway adopt a shitload of EU laws? Check
Does Norway have free movement of people and thus cannot say "no" to EU citizens wanting to come to Norway? Check
Is Norway thus in any way a valid comparison for the UK after Brexit? Hell no.
>>68148154
>I don't like pro-EU people. They are so dishonest.
Why the ad hominems? What did I write which was dishonest? Point it out.
>>68130993
Could you make it any more obvious that you are a paid shill?
I bet you are shitting youself about Brexit, Merkel's little EUSSR is going to implode when we leave.
>>68148949
>Could you make it any more obvious that you are a paid shill?
I am 100% behind Brexit. Nothing would give me more joy.
>I bet you are shitting youself about Brexit, Merkel's little EUSSR is going to implode when we leave.
Not really, I work in the financial services industry in Germany. The best thing happening to us here is that Brexit happens. Let's live in interesting times. If you vote IN, then it is "same old, same old", which is boring and has no opportunities.
>>68148654
>As in 0. You do not have to give EU citizens any welfare.
Rubbish. Total lie.
And EU citizens are entitled to the same benefits UK citizens get. And the UK cannot refuse entry to them and cannot deport them unless they are criminals.
>>68148826
Norway adopts a small percentage of EU laws.
You keep on bringing up other points because you're desperate.
>>68150037
>And EU citizens are entitled to the same benefits UK citizens get.
Does not apply to welfare. Jobseeker allowance etc. yes, if you actually worked, but not welfare automatically when you come in or later on.
You do know what welfare is? Right?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25134521
>>68150037
>And the UK cannot refuse entry to them and cannot deport them unless they are criminals.
Under EU law it can. It can ask people to state at the border entrance whether someone comes for reasons of seeking a job or whether they come to claim welfare and they have no assets. Just become the UK isn't doing it, doesn't mean the UK hasn't the power to do so.
>>68150037
>Norway adopts a small percentage of EU laws.
That lie has been refuted 3 times in this very thread. How often will you bring it up? 75% of the EU laws isn't a "small percentage". There are 160,000 pages of EU regulations and laws, 120,000 of those have been implemented by Norway.
>>68148949
>bet you are shitting youself about Brexit
MFW
>>68150552
>Under EU law it can. It can ask people to state at the border entrance whether someone comes for reasons of seeking a job or whether they come to claim welfare and they have no assets. Just become the UK isn't doing it, doesn't mean the UK hasn't the power to do so.
No it can't.
This is a total lie. It cannot discriminate against EU citizens in that way. It is illegal for it to do so.
>At the moment, whether you're a Slovakian or British citizen, you're able to claim (broadly speaking) the same benefits. While the government has recently imposed restrictions on residency requirements, which means some EU immigrants are not immediately eligible for certain benefits, the European Commission is challenging this policy in the European Court of Human Rights.
https://fullfact.org/europe/has-there-been-sharp-rise-eastern-europeans-claiming-benefits/
>>68150552
>That lie has been refuted 3 times in this very thread. How often will you bring it up? 75% of the EU laws isn't a "small percentage". There are 160,000 pages of EU regulations and laws, 120,000 of those have been implemented by Norway.
Been through it already mate. EU adopts around 10% of EU law.
Same for Iceland.
>>68152455
>EU adopts around 10% of EU law.
Norway*
>>68152455
>asons of seeking a job or whether they come to claim welfare and they have no assets. Just become the UK isn't doing it, doesn't mean the UK hasn't the power to do so.
>No it can't.
>This is a total lie. It cannot discriminate against EU citizens in that way. It is illegal for it to do so.
Actually the deportation part is true.
