Tell me /pol/, why does communism seem to work so well on paper, but when put into practice it is the worst fucking thing to have ever existed.
>>68129447
Its assumptions are baseless falsehoods which deny man's true nature as we know it from science.
>>68129447
it doesn't seem to work on paper at all to anyone but naive leftists with zero understanding of economics (like marx himself, for example)
Because like any retarded economist or philosopher, he assumed his ideas would work in a vacuum, completely ignoring that society changes on a daily fucking basis
>>68129447
It only seems to 'work well on paper' because you are dumb.
The labor theory of value is objectively wrong. Equality is a lie. And punishing the strong only leaves the weak defenseless.
>>68129963
>labor theory of value
>Marx
pick one
>>68129447
Because it's a fucking utopia that has nothing to do with real world.
/thread
Look at the field of psychology / psychiatry
When you try to change human behavior, the results are disastrous
>>68129447
Jewish plot
>>68129447
>why does communism seem to work so well on paper
Wut. It doesn't.
>>68129447
because humans aren't superior like ants
Because people suck. No one wants to play by the rules even if the rules are fair. Everyone wants an advantage. Line cutting, nepotism, office politics, bribery, corruption, etc will undermine any society regardless how fair the rules may be.
>>68129447
if someone knows nothing about math and isn't very observant or is just naturally inclined to only accept information that validates their preconceptions, I guess 2 + (-2) = 4 looks good on paper
>>68129447
It ignores the following major things and will always fail because of it:
>resources are not infinte
>a goverment can never beat the private sector in terms of efficiency
>basic human nature
>modern day civilizations needs international trade that includes captialistic nations due to their output capabilities or death is inevitable
>>68129447
Communism goes against human nature
>>68129447
can you write down how it works on paper?
>>68129647
>68129647
can you show me how it "works"?
>>68129447
works well on paper what the fuck do you mean, its fucking horrible either way
Because it assumes that people will willingly work together and not horde any resources or trade or do anything.
Also, Marx advocated for it as he was a fucking NEET. Writing "philosophy" and all.
fuck commies, they don't know what they're asking for.
You are going to have to work regardless, so things aren't "free", someone has to work to build your house, electricty, food etc.. will builders build houses for free effectively becoming slaves to a certain group?
>>68131777
>>68129447
>work so well on paper
Wtf does this even mean? Every time some faggot talks about Communism I hear this comment.
>>68129447
Who says it works on paper? Even on paper it looks like shit that would only benefit the administration class compared to everyone else.
I love threads like this where /pol/ stops spamming memes to shit on communism.
>>68129447
Communism is shit compared to what the US has now because it allocates resources with way less efficiency. The rest is up to political views.
>>68131958
Same, I've never understood this. It's the same as the people who say
>communism sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work
How the fuck does it sound good in theory?
How the fuck does it work well on paper?
What the fuck does all of this mean?
>>68129447
>Works on paper
What the fuck does that even mean?
2+2=5 works on paper.
Works on paper doesn't mean shit.
>>68129447
Basically because Marx thought that all evil in the world came from not having enough material resources as a person (ironic is't it).
Keep in mind he was a jew (one of the most jewish jews there ever was) and jews don't believe in original sin or the "tinder of sin" (fames peccati, AKA, sinfull nature or in even more laymans terms selfishness).
>TL:DR; He didn't take into account the selfish nature of man.
(Sorry; I write like shit.)
>>68130130
>A commodity has a value because it is a crystallization of social labor. The greatness of its value, or its relative value, depends upon the greater or less amount of that social substance contained in it; that is to say, on the relative mass of labor necessary for its production.
>KARL MARX, Value, Price, and Profit
Communism hasn't been fully tried.
>>68129447
>why is communism retarded
Because it shifts priority from one of rewarding the highest productivity to rewarding the lowest.
Because you're going to get paid no matter what anyway, there's no point in working your ass off for a better position because Professor Marxberg established long ago that the minimum wage ought to be enough to live on and it's not fair if a doctor can purchase more luxuries than a gravedigger.
All communism ever does, is incentivize finding trivial positions which were only invented to keep you just busy enough to meet the baseline of productivity, which keeps you out of the gulags.
>>68131958
>>68132341
It means they haven't thought it through and haven't actually read the texts.
For example:
"Why don't ATMs just give out money to everybody? It works on paper!" (Real life example, a girl once asked me this after agreeing about it with a fellow student...)
>>68129447
It assumes the dullest thing anyone can assume. That man is compelled to help his fellow man. Which anyone who has lived on this planet for more than a second knows to be utter bullshit.
>>68132791
Tell me how it try it why it's good and how it will work.
Fascist utopia hasn't been tried yet.
>>68132033
/thread
>>68129447
because it was from a guy who didn't work a fucking day in his life who thought he knew what was best for the common man who served his pompous rich ass his entire life
>>68132979
why care about slavery?
You're helping your fellow man, who cares if you must work harder than others for no better reward.
>>68133035
>Fascist utopia hasn't been tried yet.
I has and it worked. It worked so well that the whole world had to unite to destroy it.
Because Communism underestimate humanity vastly. Communism enable government to have all power. Capitalism enable private sector and government to hold some power.
>>68129447
it doesnt work on paper either. its proponents write up meaningless word salads to confuse and obfuscate.
It only works when every human on earth is a braindead hippie, with no ambition, goals, needs or imagination.
But hippies don't work, so communism can't work.
>works on paper
>as if Ludwig von MIses didn't THOROUGHLY demolish Socialism/Communism through his book 'Socialism'... on paper
No, it doesn't work on paper, even.
>>68133158
You're getting the facts wrong Belgium.
War was necessary for it to work, but guess what. When you declare war to the rest of the world people get pissed.
I've wrote something on paper.
Does this work on paper now?
>>68131777
>>68130333
the trips have spoken
Gommunism is shit because it's a jewish system to keep the jews at the top
>>68129447
Because people are flawed, the real top 1% becomes so powerful and corrupt that living conditions fall to the point of being unlivable and then the people civil war
>>68131670
>>68131637
This. I don't know how it remotely looks good on paper. What you're describing OP is a eufemism for "Your entire labour will be removed from you by force to serve the collective good, now go fuck yourself or get sent to the gulags". Nobody serious would want to see the fruits of their work being taken away from them by force without logical reasons.
>>68129447
Because we aren't ants.
Because fuck you and fuck your bills, faggot.
>>68133344
no because its not real paper
>>68133289
War wasn't necessary, Fascism requires the unity of the world for it to work, the bourguise capitalist social democrats wouldn't allow the Fascism to have freedom.
FASCISTS OF THE WORLD MOBILIZE AND WORK!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUWBzjNQFxA
>>68133289
...
It doesn't need war to work. (CF; Spain)
You guys just lebensraum'ed it up.
Also
>when you declare war to the rest of the world
>implying
England wanted a war, the Germans didn't.
>>68130943
Yeah well are there any ants going to space? I didn't fucking think so.
>>68133633
>declare war on poland
Germany at that stage was 110k sq miles france today is 210k sq miles,
>>68133500
I'm actually fucking with you, Fascism worked perfectly under a single state.
poor countries needs commies for a limited time , eu not, dunno what tou say for murica
>>68133638
How do you know that? Have you been watching every ant colony for all of their existence???
>>68133732
>declare "war" to liberate ethnic germans being massacred. (Potsdam for example)
>>68133437
No, it just hasn't been tried yet.
>>68129447
because of opposition
communism cant handle opposition. as soon as someone disagrees with them they cant help but turn violent
in communism the means of production are owned by the state. when a society transitions to communism the state will take away people's property, the means of production. the owners of course dont like their stuff being taken away so they say:"No! We wont hand over our property to you!" And the only thing the commies can do is taking the stuff by force. people will protest and fight back thus starting a spiral of violence.
in addition to that, a planned economy does not work because it's inflexible and very inefficient because of the lack of incentives (no, orders of merit are not incentives) and the leaders are usually people with no work experience and dont know what their doing
TL;DR: Communism is robbery and will always turn violent and their leaders are incapable idiots with no understandiung of basic economics
>>68129447
because, there is always someone who wants power.
>>68129447
God. Freedom. Individuality.
>>68133811
>Type 3 civ ant colony
I want to believe
>>68133963
How wouldn't this conflict with literally every political system ever made?
>>68129447
Because it's based on a logical contradiction
and it doesn't take in account the principle of marginal utility
hummanity is driven by self interest
>>68133825
i hear when you die in belgium your sons cant takeover your house is that true ?
>>68129447
It's simple as fuck. Without competition production stops.
>>68133887
This is the only post that isn't fucking stupid.
>>68133998
>Individuality
Makes for weak societies that can be easily sabotaged from the outside by pitting citizens/families against each other.
Because it's an ideology designed by ANGLOS to destroy the Aryan race
>>68129447
It's against human nature
>>68129447
Because modern communism was dreamed up by a Jewish NEET who mooched off of his best buddy's factory owner father and never swung a hammer or sickle in his entire life.
>>68134395
So are large civilizations.
>>68129447
Because it was created by an autistic NEET who didn't understand people.
>>68134310
yay, a (you)
>>68134394
>>68134394
>designed by ANGLOS
marx was from Trier, Bruder...
>>68134391
>>68133998
Also the Jesus is pretty adamant that individualism is a bad thing.
>>68132116
It's a good material for a fantasy book I guess.
>>68134486
>communism
>for the workers
>workers having to work for non working beaurocrats until magical faith based communism but yeah not going to legalize theft because fuck you proletariat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPKH4GHiihg
world unite under the Jew!
>>68134391
Individuality is God given, so there's no reason to fight it. Another failed machination of communism.
>>68129447
See pic
Because its a pipe dream and fucking shit. People don't want to be equal, especially if there's no incentive. You tell me if you can only make the same as everyone else in your company why would you EVER work as hard as everyone around you. You wouldn't, regardless if that makes you a piece of shit or not, people will work as minimal as possible without getting fired or in trouble in communism. Same thing for why pure capitalism is a joke. Companies are pieces of shit and will try to pay you 50 cents and hour if they can and try to avoid competition as much as possible.
>>68134642
who cares if 90% of jews are the baeurocrats? it's just a coincidence race doesn't exist proletariat, only the CLASS!!!
>>68129447
There are lots of relevant questions that you could ask in order to form a clearer picture. Why didn't north american or west european states attempt communism? Who did communism appeal to, and why? What kind of shared history did capitalist states and states that attempted to transition to communism or socialism have? How much was the implementation of soviet communism influenced by russian culture and existing governing structure and traditions?
>>68134687
Not sure what you mean by individuality then.
But it's pretty clear in the Bible that one should help their fellows. First comes God, then family, then community...etc
Being the kind of person who shrugs when others are in need of help is clearly not Christ like.
>>68135021
the white man welfare state can't pay for every poor person in the world
turn the other cheek but don't bend over and take it in the fucking ass mate
>>68132828
...and simply the biggest reason of all...
When you're building this Communist Utopia from the ground up, you will be competing with capitalist nations. You will be seeking investors. What are you gonna offer the investors for the money besides an ultimatum?
>>68135193
>the white man welfare state can't pay for every poor person in the world
Of course not. But it should take care of the citizens of its own country. You cannot just turn their backs on them and expect them to keep adhering to the rules and being good law abiding citizens.
>>68135350
You don't have to seize the means of production to help people in need.
>>68135350
>He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
what did Jesus mean by this?
>>68135293
>investors
money doesn't exist in communism.
The first half of the Communist Manifesto is good analysis of large scale social dynamics, and the second half is practically a guidebook on how to create a cult of personality dictatorship.
So successful is Marxism at creating authoritarian states I almost think that was the intention all along.
>>68135473
>You don't have to seize the means of production to help people in need.
this is the main problem of communism seizure of private property by the state. it has never worked without violence it does not work without violence and it will never work without violence.
>>68134642
I don't get it, are they fighting birds?
Or merchants?
>>68135546
What part of "you will be competing with capitalist nations" is *this* economically incomprehensible for you?
Until capitalism is globally eradicated, the Commune will have its hands in the market, even if it forbids its citizens from doing that.
>>68135734
Fascists, we are the only real enemy of Marxists, capitalists are simply Marxists to become, Fascists kill Marxists.
Pecking order
Fascism
Communism
Capitalism
>>68135670
Violence ain't a bad thing.
>>68135761
why?
Because if everyone gets treated (and payed) equal why work hard?
It's kinda like the american lazy nigger syndrome.
>>68129447
because on paper it doesn't take in mankind's inherent greed.
>>68135761
eliminate money and make everything free for the world.
>>68129447
Because humans are not ants as Mongoloid Marx and his followers seem to believe.
>>68129447
Communism doesn't work on paper, either.
>>68135473
I'm not a communist.
>>68135499
That's the Christ telling his disciples to prepare for the night when the where going to take him in for questioning.
>>68129447
> le works well on paper maymay
It DOESN'T work well on paper, you retard. That's why it failed in practice.
>>68135892
>Violence ain't a bad thing.
sure violence is justified when you want to take away people's property. communism is state robbery...
>>68135895
Well no wonder you think Communism works on paper. In imaginationland you can just up and build a completely isolationist, self-sustaining communist society.
You derpy motherfucker.
>>68135892
haha so edgy man
Because it doesn't work on paper.
The 'economic calculation' problem has been accepted for almost 100 years.
Classical Marxists are delusional. They're like people who believe in the Ptolemaic model of the universe.
>>68134258
I simply joined this thread to ctrl+f the word "competition". Thank you.
>>68135670
The threat of violence is also what binds people to contracts.
Stop being autistic.
>>68135923
This is a stupid thing to say because nobody works as hard as they theoretically could, nor desires to.
>>68135923
>why work hard
because you have projects with own worth
>>68132116
The concept of communism appeals to feel good retards and people with an inferiority complex who find the concept of a society where everything is fair and free to be ideal.
It appeals to the feel good retards notion of everyone not having to do without and the inferiority complex retard's notion of no one being able to be better than them.
>>68136262
>projects
lol
>responsibilities
double lol
You keep up that research.
I'm still gonna get my Spam vouchers, same as you, while I'm over here watering fake plants.
>>68136141
>The 'economic calculation' problem has been accepted for almost 100 years.
Except that it's not even part of mainstream economics. It's basically something Mises came up with which has no actual support from mainstream economists and which only retards like you keep regurgitating.
Government planning has been massively successful countless times.
Stop trying to push your cult as actual economics. You're worst then Jehovah Witnesses.
>>68136090
It is not edgy. You don't protest against the existence of the police or the military. You probably wouldn't blame someone for defending themselves if assaulted. State sanctioned and legally protected violence exists because people recognise the necessity of force and very little has been accomplished without having to rely on it, or the threat of it.
>>68136529
Plus property rights are also enforced by the threat of violence.
>>68134186
Don't rly know what you mean.
According to the World Development Report published by the World Bank in 2012, Africa’s economy is about the size of the Netherlands' economy, which is equivalent to only approximately six percent of the U.S. economy.
Netherlands/Area
Image result for area of netherlands
16,040 mi2
Netherlands/Population
16.8 million (2013)
Africa/Area
Image result for area of africa
11.67 million mi2
Africa/Population
Image result for population of africa
1.111 billion
Have fun uniting proletariat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPKH4GHiihg
>>68136185
the threat of violence to enforce contracts is different than using violence to seize property.
it all boils down to the question if it is ok that the state can take away all the privately owned means of production.
of course no owner will agree to this and so the commies will always resort to violence.
a state who needs violence to implement its most basic policies (which are theft and robbery) will never truly govern a society but bully it to conform. in every communist country people sooner or later rebelled against the party.
violence and oppression does not equate for a functioning and successful state...
open your fucking eyes weedbro
>>68136791
1. I'm not a communist and not for the seizure of anyone's property.
2. The whole NAP argument is still moronic. I really cannot stand anything from the whole Libertarian spectrum. It's just a cult of idiots.
>>68136791
I will never understand where these people get the idea that an oppressive centralized authority will ever produce something better for them than voluntary association.
It's like they sincerely believe that if Communism ever took off in any serious capacity that it would be fucking rainbows and cookies compared to their current couch potato situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs
>>68129447
>does communism seem to work so well on paper
its not even good on paper
trash on paper AND real life
>>68132623
>I write like shit
(more preferences please)
>>68137103
>I will never understand where these people get the idea that
i remember university as a time with lots of weed, partying and living off government student loans. communism is appealing in that time of life. i remember a lot of fun, smiling faces and high fives... then i started working...
>>68137170
Unite the world I will stay in my fascist containment exile for being racially counter revolutionary foul oppressors, I will see the result of your unity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk69e1Vcmvg
>>68137042
>The whole NAP argument is still moronic.
lay down the weed and elaborate you lazy bicycle riding tulip grower...
>>68136141
>not an argument
>>68137338
I want to espically see the new socialist world race mixed 100% ESPECIALLY the chronic RACIST Jews, I want Jews to be 20% negro, 20% native, 20% abo, 20% jew, 20% pygmy
>>68137896
racism will end and peace and happiness will come if the marxist world order all race mixed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-C0_EXtJ4
>>68136791
Capitalists are certainly smart to make deals with authoritarian and oppressive governments that perform the violence for them, shifting blame onto systems that they help perpetuate. Or are you going to claim that this has never happened and certainly not today?
In your perception states shouldn't touch private property regardless of how the ownership originated, but it's completely fine to displace people from where they live and sell the land and whatever's in it to foreign companies.
>>68137991
>Implying all races will mix so perfectly that everyone will be the exact same color
It's been 500 years of race mixing here and still nothing, and even if all races became mixed people would still be divided depending on their grade of mixture
People are never fucking equal, never. Not even if they shared the same blood, history and culture for thousands of years.
>>68138367
>you are anti x
>therefore you are pro y
lrn2logic you mongoloid arctic circle dwelling commietard.
>>68138658
I would still like to hear your opinion, though.
>>68138731
my opinion on what? that capitalism has it's shortcomings and a fair share in the world's misery? sure it has. now what's the connection to communism here?
>>68129447
>why does communism seem to work so well on paper
Does it? I always thought it sounded nonsensical. Commies are like a cult, as far as I can tell, they just repeat words without actually having an intellectual framework.
>>68134796
Just a little note there are other Non-National interest in that picture, mostly to the right.
Because it wasn't actually a failure and you've been duped by borgeousie propaganda.
>>68129447
Because it relies on humans doing things against human nature with no incentive or oversight.
>>68139265
In order for your arguments to make sense, you must establish your position. For example, you are against communism, because you define communism as a system where a state (used interchangeably with 'communists') takes everything from the people (used interchangeably with 'owners') in order to create inefficient economic plans overseen by incompetent staff. You also do not care about how ownership originates, unless it's a case where ownership is transferred away from a private entity by the state. You also make a distinction between forms of force/violence that alings with your ideology, and force/violence that doesn't (in which case it's theft, bullying and oppression).
This seems to rely on the idea that private ownership is (presumably always) fair and deserved, privately owned business is more efficient and successful than other forms of organising and you don't actually bring up the question of whether this arrangement is beneficial for society as a whole, or if it even has to be. How does this work out in a world where not everyone is an entrepeneur? What is the purpose of a state, in your opinion? Who does it represent?
Marxism is wrong in any circustamce. Theoretically, represent a scientific mistake. Marxism (theory per se) relies on the assumption of lLabor theory of value, easily destroyed by marginalist school, explaining the origin of value by decreasing utilities, diamond-water paradox and so on...
And I'm not taking into account the disaster that is allocating resources.
>>68129447
communism doesn't work well on paper
>>68129447
it doesn't even work on paper, it only worked in marx's head
>>68129447
Because it looks at things statically, and not dynamically
It's true that if we redistributed the wealth tomorrow to be equal for everyone, there would be a much greater total welfare in society for a couple of weeks (due to the diminishing marginal utility of money)
but in the longer term it destroys incentives and makes everyone poorer
>>68143058
And it's worth pointing out that I'm living in Venezuela. Yes, a socialism disaster with no way out.
It looks good on paper if everyone works equally
The problem is when people realize they still get shit for free even if they don't work as hard
Once everyone in a communism realizes this nobody does their job and everything collapses
>>68143286
>it only worked in marx's head
The funny thing about Marx is that he was just making "scientific predictions" about what would inevitably and unstoppably happen. There's no need for followers of Marx to actually do anything. So the whole idea that Marxists should be a political force is nonsense from the beginning.
If I really believed Marx, I'd become a hedonist capitalist. Utopia is guaranteed, after my lifetime.
