This is for polacks, religious or not.
What could possibly have started the big bang? How could a near infinite amount of mass and heat occupy an infintely small space?
If everything came from nothing, how can their not be a God?
>>67996703
who cares, we need to solve our problems on earth first before we go discovering other dimensions or greet god or whatever the hell
>>67996911
But there are no Problems, just Propaganda and Overpopulation
>>67996703
>inb4 200 angry 14 year old shitheads offering their opinions on science
>tfw "I don't know" isn't an acceptable viewpoint anymore
>>67996703
It isn't that there was nothing before, it's that there was no time. As in no motion/energy/thermodynamics or whatever else you want to call it.
It's like saying "before i was born there was nothing, because i wasn't around to witness it" it's retarded.
Im not trying to shame you or anything, it's just that it's as hard to fathom what was before what we know, just like you can't identify what was going on before your consciousness kicked in.
>>67996911
First we need to know why are we in this planet.
>>67997112
>why we are on this planet
random chance and evolution. /thread Everyone leave now.
as for the OPs question there isnt much of an answer. But replacing the lack of a real answer with god is ignorant. the end
>>67996989
This.
You may be a theist or an atheist, but, bottom point is, if you're a sensible person, you'll end your argument with "the only thing that I know is that I know nothing".
Because God can't be proven or disproven, He can only be experienced or not experienced.
Prove me wrong
>pro-tip: if you even try, you're a faggot.
>time can't exist without matter
>before the big bang all matter was condensed into a single point
>the it happened and matter actually started to exist outside a single point time started existing
Asking what happened chronologically before the big bang kinda doesn't make sense unless we separate time and matter, which is impossible
>>67996703
the ancient egyptians did it whiteboi
we wuz entropy
>>67997345
What if it was only condensed into a single point for a second before the big bang?
Like a reverse big bang?
>>67997271
>toothpaste
>>67997432
Then that would point towards the universe being virtual. Not as in a computer virtual, but as in our universe existing in a grander universe, in which our universe can be manipulated in every which way, even be turned on and off.
Also, most of the viewable universe is headed towards something dubbed The Great Attractor, so you could kind of imagine the universe as being a charge of electricity going through a wire. the big bang was when the charge was released, the great attractor being the end destination for that charge. Ofcourse this is just my own headcannon, but it is not nearly as insane as some other proposed theories.
Ask a physicist. The answer is, we don't know yet. Something started it. That's all.
There was no "before" everything. Time came into existence along with everything.
>>67997271
If god can't be proven then you probably are not ever going to experience god.
The problem with people of faith is that they don't seem to realize that "faith" by definition means they are choosing to believe something based on nothing. Also they are lying because nobody really believes in such a thing, even if they try really hard. They merely insist.
>>67997994
>If god can't be proven then you probably are not ever going to experience god.
those are two completely different thing and your affirmation makes no sense whatsoever. Buddhists can experience different state of being through meditation but they can't prove their experience.
>"faith" by definition means they are choosing to believe something based on nothing
again, total bullshit. Faith is based on experience. Experience is not "nothing".
>they are lying because nobody really believes in such a thing, even if they try really hard. They merely insist.
what you're saying is: I don't beleive it, therefore it's false. Great argumentation right there.
Congratulations: you passed the faggot test.
>>67998294
>Buddhists can experience different state of being through meditation but they can't prove their experience.
Starvation and removal of thought brings you so close to death that your body starts producing DMT, as in the most potent psychadelic we have found to date. So you start tripping balls and gain access to your subconscious, only a tiny bit ofcourse.
Literally anything monks achieve through meditation can be accomplished through drugs or simple lucid dreaming.
Now fuck off mohammad.
>>67996703
If you really think about this problem logically, there's two possibilities.
1. Nothing exists, has never existed and will never exist.
2. Something exists, has always existed and will always exist.
Now both of those are equally plausible, however, seeing as we do exist, the answer was always 2.
>>67998896
>2015+1
>thinks he exists
pff
>>67998628
>Literally anything monks achieve through meditation can be accomplished through drugs
You're lost, my child. I hope one day you'll be found.
>>67996703
>What was before nothing
Before and after are human constructs. Everything happens right now and always has.
>>67998896
Does it matter either way though?
>>67997697
Why aren't you panentheist?
What do you think of the "bubble-verse" hypothesis?
>>67996703
all black holes are basically containing another universe, and our universe is just inside another black hole...
big bang = creation of our black hole
and what's outside? apart from probably similar universe to us, we'll never know.
>>67996703
It wasn't infinitely small. It was more like the size of a baseball
>>67996703
>What was before nothing?
the question makes no sense since time began with the big bang, it is like asking "what does the number 6 smell like"
the only sensible thing to do is to say we dont know, or, we know "something" initiated the big bang, but we know nothing about that something
see even trying to describe the situation is difficult, i just used the word initiated but that implies that there was a time prior to the big bang, then all of a sudden it was initiated, but that implies time before the big bang which makes no sense
basically it is mind boggling and difficult to talk about without sounding stupid
>>68001263
>all black holes are basically containing another universe, and our universe is just inside another black hole...
What? That's just conjecture. All information is destroyed in a black hole.
But, since the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light and that means light will never leave it then, yes, we do live in a black hole.
>>67996703
Nobody goddamn knows.
Why does there have to be a before? You fags are looking for trouble
There is mounting evidence that the big bang never happened.
>>67996703
[confidential]
>>67996703
Jesus freaks thinking they know the answers to the universe.
If jet fuel can't melt steel beams, how can their not be lizard people living underground?
>>67996703
Even if everything came from something how can you possibly claim to know anything about it via lies from dead men who hated fags and women?
If the Universe was made on purpose it does not follow that the maker is who you think it is. An art historian could claim Charlemagne invented everything and they'd have more support than you.
In all likelihood it was the collapse of a previous universe.
>>67996703
It didn't. It's just another creation myth
>>68002341
my favourite explanation desu
>>68001910
>all information is destroyed in a black hole
That's also conjecture. We can't see past the event horizon so we really don't fucking know what happens.
>>68001910
>all information is destroyed in a black hole
>not realizing that a black hole gives way to a white hole in another universe
>white hole operates opposite to black hole, spitting out a bunch of shit and creating a big bang
>>68002341
How'd it collapse when it is now flying apart?
Before the Big Bang, there was the Infinite Formless Non-Being... True Chaos.
Ordo ab Chao.
the universe is in a loop of expanding and shrinking, like a beating heart.
Circle has no beginning nor it has an end.
>>68002518
No. Hawking has proven it. gumpers gonna gump
>>68002681
Proved is a very strong word.
>>67996703
before nothing theres /sci/ and /x/ where your shit thread belong.
Reminder i cant even make a fucking /pol/ drawthread while shit threads like these survive
>>67996703
>What was before nothing?
ur mum's butthole
>>67997105
>it's that there was no time.
There is absolutely no evidence or logic of this.
>>68002750
>drawthread
>>>/co/
>>68002863
go fucking kill yourself you paki loving shit. i mean for fucks sake whats so wrong about making a fucking drawthread in /pol/?
>>68002750
>>68002937
gee... I duno,
maybe cuz you suck?
>>68002980
im confused, youre referring to the somali your mother sucked off last night or the one your dad did?
>>68002750
>>68002542
That universe would have to be completely different from ours because no process in our universe (including black holes,) can create a theoretical white hole.
>>68003051
just face it, no amount of shilling will make your skill better.
>>68002743
I see. So the gravity beyond the even horizon doesn't destroy light, space, and time too? Where would your information exist without space or an interval of time?
>>68002518
Yeah that's pretty much how we know that the information is destroyed...
>>68003215
no amount of bitching online about things your government does will prevent you from killing yourself of your shit life
>>68002750
>>68003254
>Doesn't destroy light
It prevents it from going beyond the event horizon. This is why they're called "Black" Holes, because no light can escape them.
>Space
Doesn't destroy space. It's just a normal piece of space that's been warped by the gravity around it. Space is still intact, it's just like a 90 degree edge on a mountain. Once you go down you're not coming back up.
>Time
Time stops to the observer, not the actual person that's gone through. Conceivably in a large enough black hole you'd be alive for a few minutes before your cells got torn apart.
This triggers /pol/ because their worries are social and minuscule compared to your question. It shows /pol/ the mirror. The mirror shows a small brain.
>>68003525
autism
yes anon, you're literally the only person on 4chan thats ever thought about what came before the "beginning"
you are smart just like your mother says you are!
>>68003525
lol who gives a shit
>>68002750
>>67996703
You know, the Big Bang only describes what's happened since the instant (as in Planck time) the universe started expanding. It's widely acknowledged in the scientific community that what we currently know about the universe can't be reconciled with any theoretical state of things "before" the Big Bang.
>>68003850
This. There were a series of events taking place shortly after the big bang that ensured the reality that we currently know could take place. In a universe where those things didn't happen, or happened differently, we have completely no idea beyond guesses what reality would be like.
>>67996703
All of physics and what we know exists after. We cannot at this time say shit about what came before. We need to put more time into the study.
Until that point you will only be staring into the abyss with. Nohing to hold on to.
>>68003462
I'd like to see you at the singularity. Watch your head bent into nothing and twisted on itself.
>>67996703
The beauty in working with a scientific universe is that it's OK to say you don't know yet.
>>68004296
>doesn't understand how a black hole actually works
With a big enough black hole you could potentially stay alive for hours.
>>68004296
woah dude so cool
>>68002750
>>68003462
>>68003462
>It's just a normal piece of space that's been warped by the gravity around it.
>thinks infinite mass with no volume is normal space......
>>67997271
>be experienced
You belong in a padded room if you do, tbqh.
>>67996703
>an infintely small space
>big space occupy smaller space
>but space doesnt exist yet
KEK
OP here, is it logical to assume that everything came from near nothing by itself or that a Creator must be involved?
This isn't a 'Oh I don't understand X so let's say Y did it' question but what does /pol/ think?
>>68004420
>>>>infinite mass with no volume
Objects have mass. So do black holes.
What makes a black hole a black hole is it's density.
If I took the sun and pushed it inwards, I could push it inwards until it was about 3 kilometres wide. At this point it would turn into a black hole with the mass of the sun. The black hole technically does have a volume.
What you're confused about, is the PROPERTIES of black holes, that being the whole "Can't detect what's inside it" thing.
That's simply a product of the event horizon. Once an object passes through the event horizon, everything and anything that could possibly be determined is now simply a guess, because there is no way for any information to get back to me.
So yes, it is normal space. It's been warped to the point where it's nonsensical to do anything about it, BUT it will eventually evaporate as the universe reaches maximum entropy, freeing up that space again.
>>67996703
>initial conditions right before big bang
>initial conditions created by god
tyvm
>>67997112
Just chance, if we weren't, we wouldn't be able to ask ourselves why, there are an infinite amount of people that don't exist, and therefore cannot ever ask themselves why they exist.
>>67996957
islam, niggers, and leftists are problems stopping us from getting off this planet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY
>>68005667
just fix the planet, idiot.
>>68005750
no species can live by staying in the same spot, eventually it'll run out of resources
just like 50 years ago, people thought the ocean has limitless food, and now its suffering from overfishing
>>67996703
>What could possibly have started the big bang?
Quantum foam/gravity or some shit. Look up Tegmark's Level 2 multiverse.
>How could a near infinite amount of mass and heat occupy an infintely small space?
As far as we know, mass and energy of the universe is practically zero.
>If everything came from nothing, how can their not be a God?
Quantum stuff bro. Also define God.
>>68005900
Not resources, there's huge enthusiasm over growing meat now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y027yLT2QY0
Nuclear launch accident, Islamism, Globalism, and asteroid are way more dangerous. Not sure in what order though.
>>67996703
>What could possibly have started the big bang?
Causality assumes that time moves in a forward direction. The big bang was the start of time itself, so it doesn't make sense to ask what its "cause" was, when time itself did not exist before the big bang (as far as we know.)
>If everything came from nothing, how can their not be a God?
because then youd have to wonder where god came from
>>67996703
>tfw you haven't figured out the big bang is an etherless kike fantasy meant to indoctrinate the world through the priest hood of "science" to validate evolution and cultural marxism and ultimately have humanity mutilate itself with biological augmentations and genetic editing
the real question is if the earth is a disc plane with the infernal realms below and heavenly above.
http://www.k-meyl.de/go/Primaerliteratur/Faraday-or-Maxwell.pdf
>>68006709
But what if He is omnipotent and beyond the capabilities of our mind?
>>68001910
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3037521/Is-universe-slowing-Supernovae-suggest-expansion-cosmos-not-fast-thought.html
well actually it's now believed that the universe may be slowing down. It just hit me, but perhaps black holes are simply a collection mechanism. If the black holes compress everything they take in into a single point, the universe seems to be slowing down, and the big bang is thought to have erupted from a single sub atomic particle what if the black holes, in combination with regular gravitational forces are meant to re compress everything back to a single point to create another big bang ?
>>67998294
>Faith is based on experience. Experience is not "nothing".
are you saying that every religious person has had an experience of god? pretty sure thats bullshit m8
>what you're saying is: I don't beleive it, therefore it's false. Great argumentation right there.
hes saying that theres no proof so thres no point in believing it, and even if he did say that, would it really be a worse argument than 'youre lost child' bullshit
>>67996703
we had dark matter instead. Everything was energy and chaos according to ancient Mesopotamian belief.
>>68007259
Most smart fucks agree upon the increasing rate of expansion of the universe.
If this theory is true, then it will end with the entire universe being spread into nothingness.
And the entire universe came and went in the blink of an eye
>>67996703
>If everything came from nothing,
it didn't, an infinitely dense point of matter exploded so energy became energy nothing was gained or lost.
>>68007240
and how the fuck would you know that? i can say the same thing about literally anything
>>67996703
>If everything came from nothing, how can their not be a God?
Who created God then?
>>67996703
Conservation of energy only applies in our local spacetime universe, it's conceivable that there are other settings which don't obey the conservation of energy and the reason we're in one that does is the anthropic principle - which in this case basically just says that universal spaces which obey conservation of energy are much more likely to develop intelligent life.
This doesn't provide evidence for or against a god though.
>>68007715
~ the internet is God?
>even ayylmaos who reached the highest tech development still can't find the answers to these questions
>>68008202
post yfw we are teh ayylmaos?
>>68007578
I know, but the theory relies on dark matter energy to explain the reason the universe is expanding so rapidly and continues to do so. I'm sure i'm just being a dumbass, but the only way I can realistically see that being the case is that if the big bang was such an absolutely massive explosion that we are still riding on the force it's pushed out, and it had so much power that the universe will be torn atom from atom before the forces settle
>>68007715
That's not a great objection.
God is supposed to be uncreated. An unmoved mover, so to say.
Now there are 2 chances. Either God is the necessary being and has no cause before it, or the universe is the necessary entity that always existed.
Now, we have visible proof and theoretical proof that the universe along with time were created during the big bang.
>>68008568
That was the basic big bang theory.
But you have to take in account for the acceleration outwards.
If I don't remember my astonomy completely wrong, the universe expanded extremely rapidly in the beginning from the initial "exploding" forces, before slowing down a bit.
But looking at the universe now, it is clear that it's picking up speed again. Meaning that there's is something else going on other than just the "exploding" force
>>68008916
>God is supposed to be uncreated. An unmoved mover, so to say.
just because you need him to be doesnt mean it corealtes to reality in any way
>Now there are 2 chances
why the fuck would there be only 2 chances?
> Either God is the necessary being and has no cause before it
if god can have no cause for it then existence can too
>>68009280
You are literally skipping half of my arguments.
Please, enlighten me and mention some of the other chances.
>>67996703
>How could a near infinite amount of mass and heat occupy an infintely small space?
It didn't. The Big Bang was a qauntum flunctuation where-in the material sucked in by a black hole in an adjacent universe spread out into its own bubble universe that became ours.
Scientifically, there was nothing before the Big Bang, and I mean literally nothing, because there could be no space to exist in and without space, there was no time.
Religiously? coming from an agnostic, God is outside the universe and outside time. He is, was, and always will be. He is eternal, without beginning or end, whatever he may be. A supernatural being like this cannot be comprehended by lesser beings such as ourselves do to our limited nature. That's assuming God even exists.
>>67996703
>What was before nothing?
>This is for polacks
No, not really. Ordinary people can't even begin to try to answer a question like this.
>near infinite
What does that even mean you imbecile?
>>68009416
what did i skip exactly? you only said 2 things: god has to be uncaused and theres only 2 ways the universe can exist.
as for the other chances, theres plenty of concepts of how a universe can be reborn or formed with black holes, dark energy and all kinds of other high tier physics phenomena. just because you think that the only 2 ways are either god did it or the universe is infinite doesnt mean that its true
>>68007153
Why is the Universe expanding and what happened before when it was all closer together?
>>67996703
The answer is we don't know. The big bang is just a theory. It's the best one we have at the moment, but that just makes it our current best attempt at explaining this crazy world of ours, which doesn't make it infallible or even correct.
>>67996703
implying that we aren't living in the past present and future and it's not just your soul riding it out the wrong way.
>>68009796
So there are exactly 2 chances.
Those ones you mention fall inside the category of the universe being the necessary entity for existence. And i'm not arguing that because they fall in that category God is real. I'm just clearing up a misunderstanding.
>>68008916
Once you allow for a god, you allow for everything.
Even if there is a god, there would be nothing to suggest that it created the universe or have a single care for humans.
It might just be a interdimensional being peroccupied with practicing harmonica-playing while the universe happened behind his back.
>>68007520
And what was said by ancient Mesopotamians is relevant because?
>>68005171
I'm talking about the singularity asswipe. That is what drives the fucking thing. That is infinite density without volume. Are you fucking Italian or something?
>>67996911
this is true
>>68007240
And what if he is the cosmic bunghole of the great goddess?
>>68008916
> God is supposed to be uncreated. An unmoved mover, so to say.
Speical pleading as well as applying 'temporal' rules to entities before time exists.
> God is supposed to be uncreated. An unmoved mover, so to say.
Please explain what uncreated is. Most of the Universe isn't created so you're going to have to define it.
> Now there are 2 chances. Either God is the necessary being and has no cause before it, or the universe is the necessary entity that always existed.
This is a false dichotomy. Either a deity exists or it doesn't exist. It says nothing about Universe creation or if it's closer to related to other natural phenomena like lighting or the formation of black holes.
>>67996957
You might feel differently when you're dead
The big bang happened when I banged ur big mom
>>68009062
No you're right, it has sped up and slowed several times. I just wish there were known about dark matter and dark energy, than " it's there and it works"
>>68004381
This. The bigger the surface of the black hole, the closer you can get to it without tidal forces ripping you apart.
>>68010259
>Infinite density without volume
The singularity literally has a set density. That's the difference between having your universe be torn apart and having your planet being torn apart.
>>68009757
An extremely large quantity was implied. As everyone else got that, what does that say about you?
>>68010129
>or the universe is the necessary entity that always existed.
forming of a new universe is pretty different from the universe being infinite, you still didnt say what arguments of yours i skipped btw
>>68010452
That /pol/ is no board to discuss science.
>>67996703
Well my opinion is that, like there were a lot of conditions that got fulfilled in order to have the first micro organisms and the most primitive of life forms on earth, there was an incredible amount of things happening that right now are beyond our understanding (think explaining a TV to an ant).
The way I can make reason of it in my mind is that our universe is just another tiny spec of dust in a much bigger, not sure if more complex or simple (Nothing happens in this scale that would affect us, lest time is infinitely smaller here, in wich case our entire existence may be just mere seconds).
>>67996911
Define problems, dude. I can probably get on board with this as long as you're not gumping.
>>68010503
That we have visible evidence ( the big bang ) that the universe began to exist, and also theoretical evidence that time began to exist as well.
Who vitalist here?
>Discussing the origin of the universe
We should just accept the fact that we just don't know.
>>68010765
yeaha and all im saying is that no one fucking knows how it got started so saying that its either god or its infinite is retarded and you know it
If there was ever nothing there would always be nothing. Something cannot come from nothing, therefore there was always something.
>>68010822
The same way we accepted that there was nothing on the other side of the Atlantic?
>>68010259
The density of the mass inside a black hole doesn't necessarily have to be infinite, just dense enough to pass the point at which light can no longer escape its gravity.
>>68010387
Nah m9, even inside.
If you had a large black hole you could live INSIDE the event horizon for a bit.
>>68010904
Is time cyclical?
>>67997263
The unmoveable mover theory
>>67996703
Hyper dimensional star collapsed.
>>68007259
>'To be clear, this research does not suggest that there is no acceleration,' Milne said, 'just that there might be less of it.'
At least read the article, man.
>>68009416
Simulation Theory is even more legit that any creation myth, if space and time are quantifiable (no limit to how small can you measure, hence compute):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU1skKoao6Q
>>68010129
So you're just talking cause (time existing already) and un-caused/permanence (before time).
>>68009750
>HE
>>68010259
Black hole is simply a gravity well that has boundary that light can't escape from. iirc Earth shrunk to golf ball becomes a black hole.
>>68010531
>Opinion
It's super duper reasonably logical, dude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kcTTBjJvME
>>67996703
>tfw you realize consciousness is an illusion
>tfw you realize that our perception of reality may be a simulation
>tfw scientists are currently doing tests to find out if the universe is a holographic projection from another point
>>68011021
>theory
>theory
>theory
>theory
>theory
try again dipshit
>>68010937
Portugal and other explorers of the time actually knew that there was something on the other side of the Atlantic because of studies of water currents before setting foot on America. What I meant was that discussing this on /pol/ where people are not at all knowledgeable about astrophysics and when even astrophysics don't really know for sure, then we should just accept that, at the moment, we just don't know what happened.
>>68011006
>>68011124
I realyl don't care what sex or whatever that "God" prefers to be because I don't really think any religion has it right.
On the other hand, saying He is traditional. I could be saying it, but the Abrahamic God always expressed itself as male.
>>68010904
>Something cannot come from nothing
Because the simple maths of 0=0 ?
How about 0=1-1
I just got +1 out of nothing.
>>68010904
Bullshit. Put down the Guinness. When there was no space and no time and no energy there was in fact nothing. Not even a vacuum. A singularity.
A whole thread full of something from nothing.
>>67996703
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16p_16BguFM
![maxresdefault[3].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Cma74WM.jpg "maxresdefault[3].jpg")
The universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago. The beginning of real time, would have been a singularity, at which the laws of physics would have broken down. Nevertheless, the way the universe began would have been determined by the laws of physics, if the universe satisfied the no boundary condition. This says that in the imaginary time direction, space-time is finite in extent, but doesn't have any boundary or edge. The predictions of the no boundary proposal seem to agree with observation. The no boundary hypothesis also predicts that the universe will eventually collapse again. However, the contracting phase, will not have the opposite arrow of time, to the expanding phase. So we will keep on getting older, and we won't return to our youth.
There was endless gay sex
>>68011206
Accepting and bullshitting is not mutually exclusive.
>>68011261
Cool story but if I 100% believed it and wants to be God, I'll kill myself as soon as I can. So don't tell that story in case I would believe it.
>>68011294
>GOT NO STYLE
Is not just traditional, it's natural to assign sex on God. Male for authority, Female for nurture. Both for some crazy Hindu shit.
>>68011951
This Zionist asswipe is right. There was awesome fisting.
Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed so it is assumed that before matter the entire universe was energy.
what came before the state of pure energy? Dunno m8. It's not really vital.
>>67996703
Time and space are intertwined, there was no time before the bang, do there was literally no point where there was nothing. The point pigs the big bang is that a universe worth of energy and matter CAN'T occupy a small amount of space, hence space-time being forced to expand to accommodate, thus creating the expanding universe we observe now
>>68011512
I dont know but its still a lot of nothing
A question for all the atheists in this thread- if the Big Bang is true, and God doesn't exist, then where did life come from? Nobody ever talks about life. Everybody avoids the topic about how life came into existence, especially atheists. So- life had to had come after the Big Bang. There is no way any organism could have survived that. Also, life can only come from life. It either has to be reproduced, or created artificially by an intelligent being, God. (We are also approching the technology of creating life artificially). So there is no way that life suddenly came out of nowhere. It had to have been created, or it had to have existed for all eternity, which it obviously hasn't, as I've already pointed out that the Big Bang would have killed anything. Therefore, it is obvious that there is a creator. Prove me wrong- protip, you can't
>>68012535
we dont know, plenty of concepts, none of them proven yet.
>guess god did it
>>68012664
Life had to have been created by an outside, intelligent force. This force I call "God". It is the only answer
>>67996703
The laws of physics work differently when you have so much energy/mass in such a small space. Time itself is affected, as it is in other high-energy situations, as the theory of relativity has conistently shown.
Causality therefore may not have worked the same way before the Big Bang, and moreover it may not make sense to talk about a "before" since time itself may have been all fucked up (I define time as a measure of changes in object properties relative to one another).
Some physicists have attempted to describe how the laws of physics operated during this time and so guess how the Big Bang began. I think there are some hypotheses that fit into the Standard Model that describe the mass of energy that became the universe as 'appearing' due to fluctuations in the vacuum, similar to how particles have been shown to briefly 'appear' - this is because the vacuum of space is not a 'true' emptiness, but always contains a potential.
All of this for right now is just speculation, of course. We don't really know, but is be more inclined to believe something that agrees with the principles of physics than any a priori mysticism.
>>68012535
>life can only come from life
No it doesn't. A lump of atoms can form complex organic molecules that are consequently capable of creating cells. These things take time because they are mostly accidental in nature, kind of like genetic mutations.
>>68012883
>Life had to have been created by an outside, intelligent force.
any proof?
>>68012961
Basic logic? Give me an example of how you think life came into existence then, oh enlightened atheist
>>68013197
ok let me repeat myself again.
saying we dont know does not mean god did it
>>68013197
you are running into the classic problem of who created god if god created life
>>68012226
Does not answer the question.
Bottom line
What created the universe?
>big bang
What made something exist that could lead to the big bang.
Can't be answered!
God leprechauns whatever is possible.
>>68012535
Life is really just an arbitrary distinction. Are worms alive? Certainly. Are microscopic phytoplankton? Sure. Are bacteria alive? Most would say yes. Are viruses? Many people hesitate on this one. Biologists make the distinction that living things are made of cells, undergo metabolism, reproduce, etc, but bacteria aren't made of anything funamentally different than viruses, even though one is usually considered living while the other isn't. The division comes from emergent qualities, but the ones we use to define life or more or less arbitrary. It is therefore not unreasonable to posit that the systems of molecules we classify as "living" arose from simpler systems that we would not say are "living." Such developments could easily have operated within the framework of evolution by natural selection.
>>67996703
the absence of existence is nothing
god = nothing
god doesnt exist
checkmate
>>68012954
Source for this? Has this ever been replicated in a lab, or observed in the natural world? Or is this a "it has a chance of it having happened this way" type of thing
WARNING ALL FUTURE SPACE COWBOYS:
DO NOT TRAVEL AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT
>>68012224
Well, there's matter-antimatter asymmetry that account for all the matter and energy that we see right now. Still a mystery what caused that imbalance.
>>68012908
>>68013669
Oy vey shut this thread down. It's annuda geek.
>>68012535
Fuck Prometheus. What a shitty movie.
>>68013598
>What created the universe?
>Can't be answered!
>God leprechauns whatever is possible.
Bless you.
>>67996703
there was something and that something was
>>67996703
Answer that with religion.
God made everything from nothing.
>>68014305
shut up tuna
>>68013598
There wasn't anything before the big bang.
It's a very abstract thing that there is nothing in time that doesn't exist and then suddenly everything comes out of that emptyness.
It doesn't make any fucking sense.
But even though it doesn't make any sense to the hardwiring of our brains, physics shows that it's objectivly possible.
![tumblr_inline_nn6zydWlnS1tsdgjg_500[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0RY772q.jpg "tumblr_inline_nn6zydWlnS1tsdgjg_500[2].jpg")
>>68014155
Check out the 1952 Early Earth Atmosphere experiment, they stimulated the atmosphere of Earth with lightning and managed to produce a substance constaining 11 of the 20 amino acids used by life on Earth.
This is all you need to read in order to answer your question regarding life and how it started:
https://lcogt.net/spacebook/how-did-life-start-earth/
>>68013521
You are running into the classic problem of thinking that God is equal to mortal life or the universe. God has always existed, will always exist, and is omnipotent. Life has a definite beginning and end. Comparing these two things is nonsensical
>>68014155
>it has a chance of it having happened this way
Even if the chance of life appearing from organic chemistry is extremely low, you have to take in account how many years it have had and how many places it could have happened(even other planets).
If a planet is substainable for life and chance of life ever forming on that planet is like 0.0000001% chance, chances are that life will never form on that planet.
But then add another billion planets into that formula and chances are suddenly very high
>>68014736
God may or may not exist depending on the definition of God
>there's people in this thread who believe in such a thing as """""""time""""""
Peace.
>>68014155
As far as I know, scientists have some experiments in which they replicate what they think to be the early conditions of the earth. In these conditions, they have successfully generated complex organic molecules from simple precursors.
Since the process of evolution into full-fledged cells is thought to have occurred over thousands (or millions) of years, I don't think scientists have done this in the way it supposedly happened. Also, I think it's reasonable to question whether the conditions in these experiments really were similar to early Earth. But I think they at least demonstrate that complex, self-replicating molecules can be spontaneously generated from simple molecules given the right conditions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
>>68014412
>Physics says so
Laws based on our universe.
What created the physics to allow a "universe" to be created that in turn creates physics that you use to say
>nothing from nothing
>more plausible than a creator
Right.
Reality is however, we do not know but something was instrumental in universe getting created, maybe god, maybe leprechauns as "difficult" that may be to believe.
>>68014753
And what are the odds of life appearing, if even fathomable?
>>67996703
Nothing was before expansion, literally.
The best explanation i've heard of this topic was from my history teacher funnily enough back in highschool, the way he explained it was that the 'big bang' wasn't an expansion of matter and energy into empty space as most people misunderstand it, but rather the expansion of space and time, or simply existence, within which were matter and energy, into literal nothingness, or non-existence.
I'm still not entirely convinced but if you grant science this one miracle it does tend to explain everything else quite consistently within that given framework.
>>67996703
time is a circle
>>68014736
>God has always existed, will always exist, and is omnipotent
Please. Prove it.
We don't have any hard evidence for a god, only metaphysical speculations.
And chances are that whatever arguments you use to "prove" the infinite and omnipotent existence of god, chances are that I could probably flip and use tohe same arguments against you
>>68012961
The proof is in life itself, the eco system, how everything works like one giant pattern.
You can begin to see an all potent and divine force manipulating it.
>>68014861
Time is just social construct
>>68015095
And if true
Who created the ability for a big bang to take place
>it created out if nothing!!
What created the ability for something to be created for nothing and do not answer
>muh physics
Because THAT SHIT DOES NOT ALLOW THAT SOMETHING CAME FROM NOTHINGNESS
sure as the sun will shine tomorrow NO ONE KNOWS for sure but something allowed or did this and the answer is not
>blurp nothing
>>68015072
I dunno.
Probably slim.
>>67998294
>Buddhists can experience different state of being through meditation
>Faith is based on experience
Experience does not prove anything. I can eat shrooms and experience all sorts of weird thing - it does not mean, that these things are somehow relevant to the universe.
>>68015287
>how everything works like one giant pattern.
it looks like a pattern, it isnt. just like roullete doesnt have any patterns, allthough many gamblers claim to see one
>The proof is in life itself
ok you might not believe me,but i created existense, the proof is in life itself.
We are currently having several experiments taking place by brilliant scientists to see if we alo live in an virtual artificial universe created software.
AO DO NOT COME AND TELL ME YOU KNOW THERE IS NO CREATOR AND BIG BANG CAME FROM NOTHING
YOU FUCKS ARE WORSE THAN THE MOST RELIGIOUS ZEALOT
like talking god with a muslim when speaking with die atheists.
>>68002750
That's probably because I and thousands of others have your embarassingly autistic comic shit filtered. Please take a step back and gather the slightest bit of self awareness.
It's a week of psychopaths, murderers, werewolves, murdering marauding maniacs. This marvelous week of murder begins When You're Dead. A malicious tale about a maniac; with a deadly eye for murder. All this begins Monday on Channel 7's 3:30 movie.
>>68015565
>Because THAT SHIT DOES NOT ALLOW THAT SOMETHING CAME FROM NOTHINGNESS
But it does.
There's more to nothing than nothing
>inb4 but dat mean that nothing isn't nothing so fuk u
Watch Lawrence Krauss "universe from nothing", he talks about quantum bubbles and whatnot popping in and out in nothingness.
Strange concepts that I certainly don't understand.
But when you see these smart fucks talking about it, you see that they know. They are trying to figure out how something can come from nothing, despite the fact that such a thing makes no fucking sense.
>>68003462
>Time stops to the observer, not the actual person that's gone through
Actually the time divergence becomes infinite at event horizon. For outside observer the person falling into black hole never reaches it. For the person falling into black hole the whole infinite future of outside universe flashes the moment he passes the even horizon.
What does this thing mean is not clear. One interpretation is, that black holes do not actually exist - because they cannot form in finite time of outside universe.
>>68015757
It doesnt look like a pattern to you because you dont have as much scope from your perspective.
Everything has a formula, a law it must obey, there is no such thing as chaos, just forces of influence.
And there are many forms of forces and energies in this world, even some that may look, chaotic and without interpretation. But it all fallows a pattern
>>68007240
>beyond the capabilities of our mind
Why can't you just apply that quality to whatever came before the big bang? Why do you need the extra step?
>>67996703
I highly doubt there was nothing before the big bang. SOMETHING must have caused the universe to expand.
perhaps another universe collased in on itself before expanding again as we are now.
Who cares? I'm here now and that's all what's important.
>>68016320
Then you'd be once again troubled with the question of the origin and cause of that particular event.
>>68016111
>what created the quantum bubbles and the space they move in
>nothing from nothing
Is impossible.
If you wanna show me proof of otherwise that is better than that of the bible and leprechauns please do share.
Pro tip, you cannot, speculation with no facts, zero observations and no math by a scientist on his free time narrated by Morgan Freeman is not evidnce of anything.
You cannot prove or make a case for anything before the big bang.
Leprechauns true power.
>>67996703
The Demiurge started the Big Bang by pressing the 'enter' button on his 'keyboard' (so to speak), because the universe is a computer simulation that was created by the Demiurge.
God (the REAL God, not the Demiurge who is posing as 'God') created humans for the same reason that It created every other form of life - to experience Itself through those forms of life. God manifested this universe from Its consciousness, this universe is naught but God's dream. God is pure consciousness, hence everything in this universe (and in 'reality' in general) is consciousness. Everything is eternally alive and has an identity of its own, even so-called 'abstract' things like war and peace. When God manifested this universe, all that was not in harmony with the natural order of the universe assumed an identity that some people today call 'the Demiurge'. This identity is essentially a self-aware distortion. Although the Demiurge is conscious (like everyone else and everything else), it does NOT have a soul (actually, it IS NOT a soul, to be more accurate). This is why I like to call the Demiurge 'the Machine'. The Demiurge is cold, emotionless, sociopathic, relentless, exceedingly Machiavellian and PROFOUNDLY EVIL according to the conception of 'evil' that is accepted by the average person (although the Demiurge does not think of itself as being 'evil', because it considers itself to have transcended the duality of 'good' and 'evil'). The Demiurge has an important job, its job is to keep the machinery of the universe in perpetual motion.
The 'God' of the Abrahamic religions (i.e. Judaism, Christianity and Islam) is actually the Demiurge. Worshipping the Demiurge and praying to the Demiurge gives energy to the Demiurge. The Demiurge receives an energy bonanza from Muslims in particular, who pray to him five times a day. Energy flows where attention goes.
Human dynasties = Darth Vader
Archons = Emperor Palpatine
Demiurge = Dark Side of the Force
>>68016320
>SOMETHING must have caused the universe to expand.
Nope.
You are free to belive whatever and makes any assumptions you'd like, but ask an astronomer or physicist, someone who actually knows their facts on this subject and they will tell you: The universe came from nothing.
And even though that may not even make the slightest sense to you: Is there a universal law that says things have to make sense to humans?
We're ment to understand how to hunt, eat, sleep, fuck and repeat. Not to ponder about the beginnings of the unverse.
>>68016541
I remember Neil Degrasse Tyson said in The Cosmos every black hole could possibly contain a new universe, and that our universe could exist in a black hole of another host universe. and it keeps going to infinity.
it seems pretty plausible to me considering black holes contain singularities and our universe came from a singularity.
>>68010363
No, they won't feel anything because they're dead kuknadian
>>68016238
>you dont have as much scope from your perspective.
what does that even mean?
>something something laws exist in our universe, therefor god
laws are made up by us to desrcibe the world, theyre not chaos or order. lets take gravity as an example, its just bigger things attracting smaller things in space, thats all it is and it doesnt immply or do anything. we might interpret it as chaos if it destroys something and we might interpret it as order when it doesnt.
you still didnt refute my claim of creating existence, for all you know i made all those laws up.
btw even if you take the universe as a whole, it doesnt make you sound any smarter than the "how can you look at the sunset and say theres no god" people
Of what fucking consequence would puny human emotions or actions be to beings capable or reordering the Cosmos?
I'm supposed to worry about something like that's feelings so it doesn't get butthurt because I didn't pray to it? Fuck off. There is no god.
It was werewolves.
>>67996703
How the fuck should we know? Be skeptical or be dumb.
>>67996989
This
>>67997271
How can we even know that we can experience something so incredible as humans? God is meant to be incomprehensibly powerful, no?
>>68016938
Define 'nothing'.
inb4 no
>>68016938
Isn't that completely against the law of conservation of mass
>>68016328
Helloooooo sexy! My life is complete now. Woooooohoooooo
>>68017122
Gravity is a force, an energy, as a matter of fact it it a living form of energy, and is submitted to laws and follows patterns which all forms of energies do and like all energies can be manipulated, given you have the formula and know how magnets work.
>>67998974
Well, i better go get cut, i've found the one true jewish god
>>67996703
Think about gravity. Over huge periods of time, everything eventually gets closer, and comes together. Our universe will do the same thing and will once again occupy that small space, then the cycle will repeat.
>>68014736
If god is omnipotent can he destroy himself?
>>68017202
see
>>68016111
I don't really understand what nothing means, because it seems to be more to it than nothing.
>>68017387
That you have nothing and then there is something?
Again:
It doesn't make much sense to me.
BUt the smartfucks who actually knows their shit on this subject(aka not /pol/ browsers) tells us that this is in faact how it is because phyiscs are weird.
And who are you going to trust on this issue on origins of the universe?
Yourself or me who have watched a couple documentaries on it?
or
Some dude who've spent 20 years of his life devoted to the study of it?
>>68017644
>Gravity is a force, an energy
what the fuck are you even talking about? gravity isnt anergy and it isnt alive in any shape or form. its just interaction beetween bodies with mass. the only thing it follows is this: bigger objects attract smaller ones, thats it. thats what we observed and thats what we call gravity
>a living form of energy
>a living form of energy
>a living form of energy
>a living form of energy
>a living form of energy
stop pretending you know anything about science you fucking mongoloid. keep your spirituality shit to yourself
>>67998628
>Literally anything monks achieve through meditation can be accomplished through drugs or simple lucid dreaming.
Yes, but drugs and simple lucid dreaming provide the same benefits achieved by monks through meditation only temporarily, whereas the benefits achieved by monks through meditation can be permanent if the meditation is intense enough.
In the ancient Sanskrit language of India, the word 'siddhi' means 'perfection'. In its most common usage, the word 'siddhi' refers to an ability that is a natural and inherent faculty of our true identities as eternally alive souls. The soul is smaller than an atom and larger than the universe. The soul is infinitely small and infinitely large. The soul is ALL-PERFECT AND EVER-PERFECT. The soul is the storehouse of ALL ENERGY, ALL POWER AND ALL STRENGTH. The soul is PURE CONSCIOUSNESS. The soul possesses ALL siddhis and there are an INFINITE number of siddhis. Among all of these siddhis, there are considered to be eight major siddhis. Siddhis can be awakened through a variety of methods. In Patanjali's Yoga Sutras IV.1, it is stated:
"Siddhis may be attained through birth, the use of herbs, incantations, self-discipline or samadhi."
Here is a list of the eight major siddhis (in no particular order):
Laghima siddhi: Making your body and/or anything else as light as you want.
Garima siddhi: Making your body and/or anything else as heavy as you want.
Mahima siddhi: Making your body and/or anything else as large as you want.
Anima siddhi: Making your body and/or anything else as small as you want.
Prapti siddhi: Having unrestricted access to any and/or all places.
Prakamya siddhi: Fulfillment of whatever you desire.
Isitva siddhi: Control over any and/or all of the laws of nature.
Vasitva siddhi: Being able to control any and/or all beings.
"A man is a god in ruins. When men are innocent, life shall be longer, and shall pass into the immortal, as gently as we awake from dreams." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>68012535
No one avoids debating origins of life. You just avoid reading biology textbooks.
>>67996703
>everything came from nothing
That's a gross misunderstanding of the idea you're trying to express.
>>68018300
>the soul is infinitely small and infinitely large
Ohhhhh, it's bollocks.
>>68018226
Did you know spirituality has very much control over energies and forces?
No you didnt because u r a simpleton and mentally stuck in juvenile mode
>>68018403
There is such a thing as infinite smallness. There is also such a thing as infinite largeness.
>>68018510
No, there actually is a finite smallness.
>>68018023
can god blow himself ?
>>68018453
>Did you know spirituality has very much control over energies and forces?
did you know that asserting thins is not that hard and everyone can do it just as good as you?
>No you didnt because u r a simpleton and mentally stuck in juvenile mode
i didnt because it hasnt been proven, pretty weirds isnt it? im pretty sure it wuld be really easy to prove if it can affect the physical world
Who said there was nothing?
>>68012883
Saying pseudo logical garbage like this makes me hate being American. Our country is filled to the brim with these idiots. I've given up trying to use logic and arguement because they can't think for themselves. Weak minded and frightened of the big questions.
>>68018704
Dunno, suppose it'd be pretty cool for god if he could.
>>68018719
It hasnt been proven
Thats because you are too imature to search in the correct places for it
>>68018510
Prove a soul exists, and that it can be infinitely small and infinitely large, just beacuse a quality is possible doesn't mean an object has those qualities
>>68018650
No there isn't. That's the bluest blue-pill EVER, you retard. Whatever you THINK the smallest unit is, there's a unit that's EVEN SMALLER THAN THAT. That's the way it is because that's the ONLY way it CAN be.
>>67996703
Physicist here.
We don't know yet.
>>68018876
>Thats because you are too imature to search in the correct places for it
>top kek
k buddy lets see your secret sources, as a retarded simpleton im not capable of finding it. thats probably because im just limited to this idiotic concept called "science" and "not being a gullible retard" though. youre free to prove me wrong.
post the best video on youtube or a webpage which looks like it was created 20 years ago you can find
>>68018704
Top kekkity kek
>>68019306
If I showed you my sources
You still wouldnt believe, u r too stuburn and retarded to interpret it as evidence, youll interpret it as chaotic mumbo jumbo.
>>68019553
>youll interpret it as chaotic mumbo jumbo.
Maybe because it's chaotic mumbo jumbo.
>>68015587
Not the universe, but the self. What it likes to be you.
Spiritual or whatever you want to call it experience is what be researched and studied too, just trim the mumbo jumbo out.
That's one of the reasons religion survives, other is fear of the unknown (especially what happens after death), and a sense of belonging socially.
>>68016190
Black holes exist, we just don't know what happens in good detail on the event horizon and beyond.
>>68016320
>2D wormhole
ABSOLUTELY PRE-INTERSTELLAR
>>68017138
Dude, our potential is limitless in reach and power. Look at your baby pictures and look at you now. What's the difference besides shape?
>>68017644
That's Newtonian gravity. Einstein GR is:
Matter tells space how to curve. Space tells matter how to move.
Space-time that is.
>>68017821
Universe's expansion is accelerating, Ahmed.
>>68018224
This is the shortest video Universe from Nothing by Krauss. It's an interview so it's more palatable to deus vulter. By no means complete, of course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46sKeycH3bE
>>68019553
>u r too stuburn and retarded to interpret it as evidence
probly because it isnt evidence
>>68002789
Yes there is. Time doesn't exist inside a singularity.
>>68019619
Oh I assure you it isnt, when you cross a certain boundry, you are the one getting influenced and manipulated by these forces, and pretty much at their mercy.
That is why you never play with something you dont understand in the first place
Therse energies are intelligent, and will manifest their will
>>68020037
I love shitting myself, it brings me colser to the ever loving beauty of the shit energies, they breathed into the universe with their brown blessing, you wouldn't understand.
>>68020037
>Therse energies are intelligent, and will manifest their will
oh wow you just went full retard, gj.
>>68020179
Ancient egyptians thought it was a joke too
Guess they didnt laugh long ,
ahahahahah
>>67996703
linear paradox
existence always was/is/will be
only way out
>>68004399
>>68005900
>>68010066
>>68010777
>>68012111
>>68016111
~ you will go blind.
[confirmed]
>>68019101
Infinitesimal (Infinite smallness) can't be proven (I think?) in reality, just like Infinite (Infinite large). Because like you said, you just keep going, but infinite is still an infinitely long way away.
But in math it's no problem.
Btw, we could have multiverse just by space not even being infinitely large, just large enough so that things, and ultimately universe would repeat. Tegmark's level 1 multiverse.
Which is provable by just traveling far enough.
>>68020037
Don't be afraid.
We looked into properties of Uranium and 50 years later everybody thinks they're going to die from nuclear winter. Why didn't we? Because we figured out MAD and spread that knowledge.
If you want to find out about telepathy, NDE, reincarnation, astral projection, go right ahead.
I bet there's some interesting scientific papers on them too.
There's no guarantee we'll survive or not. If we didn't, that's because we don't know better. So keep figuring stuff out.
>>67996703
A giant space vagina then the big bang happened and out we came.
>>68021603
>If you want to find out about telepathy, NDE, reincarnation, astral projection, go right ahead.
>I bet there's some interesting scientific papers on them too.
why would you encourage retards like this?
>>68021603
Dont be afaid
Quite the opposite, I dont believe these energies are very sympathetic to man.
They want to troll the living mysery out of us
>>68021877
I'm not saying it's a fruitful and viable career choice.
It's always good to be curious, generally speaking.
Plus he'll be studying the brain if he does, that shit cray.
>>68022369
And how do you deal with troll?
Besides Earth is not even welcoming in the slightest either. Get naked and sleep outdoors is basically suicide there, right?
>>68023621
>How do you deal with troll
Step A: figure out youre being trolled is the hardest part most people fail to see, since these energies are far more intelligent than you and know how to subdue and subvert from the inside out.
>>68024135
So
>energies
>superhuman intellect
>genius strategist
>unsympathetic to humans
>wants human to be miserable
You know a lot about these. I wouldn't be worried.
