Don't you think we're all human beings and deserve to be treated fairly?
>>67913893
Because communism discourages effort, as you all get the same regardless.
It prevents individuals with a particular talent to get to actually develop themselves.
A society is built using everybody strenghts.
The main issue with communism is that it assumes all human beings are equal. Which is simply not true for the simple reason that even if, talent was, let's say, spread equally amongst different areas for everybody, the inequality would still come out from the simple fact some talents are more valuable to society than others.
>>67913893
What's fairness? Isn't it fair that if I work hard that layabouts shouldn't be able to essentially take my money?
Nothing technically, in theory it is the ultiamte egalitarian society.
It's problem is its implementation, realistically it just can't work because it removes all agency from people. Add to that that human society has always and will always be hierarchical then you end up with that whole "some are more equal than others"
>>67913893
No.
>>67913893
No.
Communism as collective ownership of the means of production... Pretty Cool. Loads of worker co-ops in a democracy, sounds pretty rad. Communism as everyone being equal under authoritarianism? State industry and collectivization? Fuck that shit.
>>67914472
>communism discourages effort
>individuals can't develop themselves
I guess those Soviet nobel prize winners, olympians and cosmonauts weren't really trying and couldn't develop themselves.
>>67913893
That picture for starters.
>>67913893
>forgetting every time Communism was tried
>>67913893
deserve to be treated fairly != deserve to have a piece of what others work for
Also, the egalitarianism aspect is foolish. Not everyone is equal. Plus the idea of a stateless, and classless society is impossible; without a state, who is to prevent the development of different classes which has naturally occurred in every society that's larger than about 150 people? Inevitably, such a system requires endless bureaucracy to maintain this constant redistribution of resources and prevent anyone from getting ahead, and in requiring that creates a vacuum at the top which dictators can easily fill, as they manage what is essentially an inherently totalitarian system. Alternatively, they let classes form and you end up with an ideologically inconsistent country like china, which can work, but it still fairly rough. Also Marx was into cucking.
>Don't you think we're all human beings and deserve to be treated fairly?
They are not treated fairly, they are treated equally, and that's the problem.
Let's say, there are two doctors: one is shitty and the other is Godlike. But they both get paid the exact same amount. Is that fair? All this is going to do is make the good doctor become just like the shitty doctor, since communism offers no life goals for a human to archive.
It requires a authoritarian big government
>>67913893
Communism is the most unfair system in the world
>>67913893
101 million innocent people killed in the 20th century
Food. Picture very related, that is what commies eat.
>>67915670
you'd work hard too with a pistol on your temple
>>67915854
>But they both get paid the exact same amount
There are no salaries or wages in communism, and in socialism the better doctor gets paid more.
>>67915939
Communism, by definition does not a state.
>>67915813
>deserve to have a piece of what others work for
This is called "capitalism".
>>67916028
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>>67915670
The average productivity was still well below the average for a capitalist nation despite a few outliers who were good for the propaganda and who acted for goals which were not monetary. It fucked communist block countries up. The normal mentality was "I'll pretend to work and you'll pretend to pay me" or something to that effect.
>>67916096
It makes me smile knowing that Finland kept the commies at bay even in impossible odds.
>>67913893
everyone should get an equal chance.
if they fail to take it it's their own problem and they can starve to death on their own lazyness.
fucking freeloaders.
>>67915670
>Describing the soviet union as actual communism
>Working with absolutes rather than tendencies
>>67914472
>communism discourages effort,
Basically, you are reducing all human effort and ambition to greed, when this is not entirely the case at all, and you are doing this in the face of a blatant reality that the greed motive has ALSO led to great abuses as well as advancements. This latter point needs looking squarely in the face. Why is there a race problem in the USA? Because of people wanting to make a buck out of slave labour. Why do European states import enemies? Because the business elite like pushing labour costs down and sowing division to distract from rising wealth inequalities. Why is manufacturing sent abroad, causing unemployment and associated malaise? Cos of greedy cunts, of course.
why do you assume communism would treat people fairly
>>67913893
It'd be pretty good in an ideal society where people aren't lazy lying shitsheads and are willing to work for the common good. Or alternatively under a supervision of a benevolent dictatorship of advanced AI. Humanity isn't read for true communism yet.
>>67913893
>trap
>ussr flag
Waste of fap material.
>>67915854
Sauce ?
I do believe that all humans should have equal foundation.
Too many people are born with disadvantages that are out of their control things like medical expenses, born into a family of poverty, born in a neighborhood that is crime ridden and into a school that is sub par.
People should be treated equally from birth and be given all the tools necessary for them to develop into proper successful adults those that don't succeed have only themselves to blame from then on out but in todays society ones failures typically involves your disadvantaged birth moreso than your own failures.
>>67916118
I'm Cuban immigrant. I'm not particularly smart, got a four year degree and now I'm making 60K at the age of 22. It's really not hard to live a comfortable life in the west, you just need some foresight. If I were still living in Cuba, I could be Bill Gates and still living worse than the poorest nigger in America. I'm sure there are some lazy fucks with trust funds here, and decent poor people who were dealt a bad hand. But it's still more fair than pushing everyone's quality of life into the dirt.
>>67913893
USSR
Rules of Red khmer who insane rule almost genocide their own country
read more about commies , be red-pilled
>>67913893
Because according to public opinion communism is a system where illiterate slavs must submit to a georgian manlet's personality cult and not maintain basic infrastructure or services. As in, that's the literal definition of communism today.
>>67913893
we are tribal and there will always be leaders. ergo, there will always be inequality, there will always be a ruling class
what's wrong with communism is that it's fundamentally flawed, and no amount of mental gymnastics can change this fact
>>67913893
>communism
>treating people fairly
I know this is absolutely reddit tier bait but okay OP.
In short communism treats no one fairly. It pretends to play God and offer utopia. Unfortunately in reality this institutes a class spectra of ruling elites vs serfs. Go ask the tens of millions of dead Russians, unborn Chinese, and imprisoned North Korea s how fairly they are treated.
At least in a capitalistic society, anyone with the right idea, motivation, etc. can "make it".
>>67916113
>capitalism: wealth isn't distributed; it's created and representative currency is provided in exchange at rates which are voluntarily excepted.
>communism: wealth must be "spread" so nobody is ahead of anyone else (except the government officials and their dogs)
Alexey Pajitnov, the guy who made Tetris didn't benefit from the wealth he created by designing that piece of entertainment. That people enjoyed it didn't really help him until 1996 when he was first able to collect royalties on the game he made. He created wealth, but wasn't payed for it, instead having whatever the soviets did make distributed away from him to people who had done nothing to participate in that particular creation. This is the little red hen baking bread, others not helping, and them eating the bread anyways.
>>67916358
No, it's all those tumblr cultural marxists' trained by kgb fault, I tell you.
>>67916113
>There are no salaries or wages in communism
You know very well what I mean. What the government provides you is your payment.
>>67916560
Morning view by onizuka naoshi. You could've just googled, voltorb poland.
>>67913893
No price signal: can't adequately gauge demand, which leads to marked production inefficiencies.
>>67917068
>institutes a class spectra of ruling elites vs serfs
It already existed in Russia and China long before communism and was even worse.
>>67916113
>communism doesn't require a state
By definition of being in a state of "classlessness" as well, it must contradict it's own definition, either by having a state, or having a class system develop unfettered.
>>67913893
>Don't you think we're all human beings and deserve to be treated fairly?
I'm sure giving all the power to a bunch of fucks is gonna make us all equal.
What socialist don't understand is that the government is the one that owns the means of production, not the people.
>>67916999
>what's wrong with communism is
Your criticisms would be much more convincing if I thought you'd actually read anything written by a communist.
>>67917068
>capitalism is a meritocracy
>communism = dictatorship
>communism is playing God
lel m8 desu
>>67917098
You seem to be equating the Soviet Union with communism. Tell me exactly: in what way were the proletariat liberated by the Soviet Union?
>>67917147
>You know very well what I mean. What the government provides you is your payment.
What you appear to be describing is some kind of totalitarian state in which everyone works for the government. OP asked about communism.
>>67917297
Not at all. Communist theory holds that class systems do not develop naturally - they require authorities and institutions like "private property", caste or serfdom in order to exist.
People don't know enough about the late USSR, prior to the mess Gorbachyov made of it. It was a functioning society, everybody had a job, a place to live, and a role to play. Literacy levels were superb, there were good libraries, schools and clinics everywhere, healthy living was held up as a great ideal, and young people's heroes were cosmonauts, scientists and world-class athletes. Something terrible was lost with Perestroika. And this was bad for the West as well as Soviet citizens: our own rulers no longer had to strive to offer something better. The mask has since been discarded, and we now see the ugly reality of the globalist elite.
>>67913893
There is no point in pushing for communism at this time. History is not yet at that point and won't be for at least 100 more years. Humanity will eventually get there though.
>>67916281
No true communism huh? Like we can't figure out how a sliding scale works.
>>67917523
That's what Lenin thought in 1916! Actually, even until about September 1917...
>>67917148
Apparently the Soviet Union used the price info of capitalist countries to at least HAVE something. kek
>>67917720
If you're going to hold up the USSR as an example of communism in action then the burden is on you to prove that it was such.
Unfortunately, you're not really sure what "communism" means beyond what memes on /pol/ have told you, so this is going to be difficult for you.
>>67917721
Lenin was a moron who thought that imperialism was somehow the end stage of capitalism. He was thinking far too narrowly.
>>67917505
>Not my definition of communism
It's the outcome my friend. The communist ideas of revolution are flawed; the analysis of any violent revolution in history can show as much. They all follow the same path as the French revolution broadly, and all end in a government which was more tyrannical than the original. Revolution doesn't bring liberation.
The soviet union was just a good example of that.
>>67917505
If your communist theory is correct, it would stand that you should be able to show me the existence of societys without a class system of some sort.
>>67915670
Acting like a few outliers who had vast wealth and time poured into them for the sake of propaganda meant that the majority of the population weren't behind the curve.
This is the same way that liberals prop up black achievers, doctors and lawyers acting like all blacks are doing this well.
>>67913893
everything
you retarded liberal idiot not worthy of living
>>67918236
>your communist theory
I'm not a communist.
> it would stand that you should be able to show me the existence of societys without a class system of some sort.
> it would stand that you should be able to show me the existence of societys without a monarchy of some sort.
> it would stand that you should be able to show me the existence of societys without a slavery system of some sort.
> it would stand that you should be able to show me the existence of societys without a patriarchy of some sort.
>They all follow the same path as the French revolution broadly, and all end in a government which was more tyrannical than the original. Revolution doesn't bring liberation.
Funny that. The French Revolution introduced principles of liberalism, nationalism and democracy which are now so ubiquitous as to be take for granted in most of the developed world.
>>67918437
>communism
>liberal
Pick one.
>>67917720
They are "communist" in that they were heading towards a true communist state. Whatever that entails. Pipe dream or not, there's no reliable way of fully knowing how successfully a "socialist utopia" could function as a society.
communism doesn't account for human nature as well as capitalism does
with capitalism you can give all your money away or keep it
>>67913893
no ofc not.
I only think Danes deserve my respect and should be treated fairly.
Scandicunts gets the friendly nod but whether or not they treat their own citizens fairly I really do not care about.
Yuropecucks are trade partners and nothing more.
Rest of the world: Do not care
>>67913893
Communism requires the world to be ruled by a small group of people, brainwashing everyone 24/7 to create a perfect "soviet man" several generations after, which will see work and contribution to society like we now see entertainment, plus people who don't want to work should be disrespected.
Of course numerous victims will be involved, as all the obstacles must be removed from communism's way, and it should remain this way for a long, long time.
In the end people will "deserve" absolute freedom, including freedom from money system as a whole, because they'll work with passion on their own, but at the same time, their rulers might not want them to have that and they'll have total control of everyone forever.
If we come closer to our times - communism won't work because world is full of lazy parasites who won't work, discouraging others.
tl;dr: In reality, communism doesn't work.
>>67913893
You wouldn't have your chinese cartoons to fap to for one thing.
>>67913893
Give me some of your money, please.
Also, let me crash on your sofa. I hate paying for a place of my own. Better yet, how about I just move in and bring my own bed?
C'mon, comrade. We're all human beings. You're not treating me fairly.
>>67915670
You mean state-funded scientists, sportsmen who are poor in capitalism anyway and state-funded pilots also do well under a system where the state funds you?
Oh gee. That sure proves your point.
>>67916754
> but in todays society ones failures typically involves your disadvantaged birth moreso than your own failures.
Blatantly incorrect
You got most of that statement right, but in America almost everyone can suceed and thrive coming from any background. You can literally be born with an abusive single mother in near poverty conditions and still suceed, you are provided basically free college (goverment aid) free education(public schools) and free food (welfare). Yes, it is true that someone born in a rich family has a better chance, but even in the worst kind of conditions you still have a CHANCE to suceed, and it is up to you, not society, to secure that chance
>>67918215
You'd have to be a moron yourself, to imagine a man who achieved what Lenin did, whether you approve of it or not, was not intelligent.
The idea of the "mutation" of capitalism into imperialism actually holds up rather well, if interpreted in light of recent decades and "globalism". Lenin did not do too badly with the data at his disposal, and was obviously not a claivoyant.
>>67915340
PLEASE someone kill these animals already
it is painful to see them alive
and this must end
blacks are not humans
blacks are a mistake
>>67919923
>le communism means gib me free stuff meme
>>67918527
Pal, you may as well be pretending you can dismantle the "Kyriarchy". It's possible to show societies that aren't monarchies, had no slavery, didn't have a patriarchy, but classes are how humans organize themselves naturally simply by being of different skill levels and skill sets, which we all must have by virtue of living in a civilization requiring specialization in terms of profession (all of them have had this and consequently sorted themselves into different classes). You'd have to revert to hunter gatherers, and even then there would be distinctly successful people and less successful individuals and power structures would form, especially in larger groups. Organizing people to be successful practically necessitates it.
>>67920007
>You can literally be born with an abusive single mother in near poverty conditions and still suceed
You're wrong, the chance is there yes but you have a heavy burden to carry much more than someone who has all the advantages in his favor.
When someone has a steep hill to climb due to his birth you can't blame them for failing and ending up as failures while others have an easy road towards it.
There are countless psychological issues derived from being born in a disadvantaged home which further hamper you, believe it or not if your parent are not there to support you through both mentally and physically the road to being successful is REALLY difficult.
>>67915340
You honestly expect me to read all that shit?
>>67920416
You could say the exact same thing about castes or monarchies. Turns out we don't need them either. All of these systems of hierarchy have required power structures, laws and coercion to maintain them. Once you stop recognising people's "right" to own other people then slavery stops existing. Same goes for people's divine "right" to be in charge.
Now we just need to abolish people's "right" to expropriate surplus labour value and absentee ownership.
>>67920390
I'm less fortunate. Shouldn't I have some assistance under benign, Communist rule, shouldn't I?
>>67914472
I fully support that. I'm short, weak, have a low IQ, failed at working in a restarant, failed at becoming a lifeguard, failed at getting into College, can't keep a minimum wage job, so I'd love that.
My parents and their parents experienced it first hand and it was a fucking mess.
Don't praise it if you haven't lived through it.
>>67913893
>>67921211
>le communism means gib me free stuff meme, again
>>67913893
To young to remember when roughly one third of the world was communist. It a political philosophy that looks good on paper but doesn't work in proof of concept.
>>67921368
Well so does capitalism.
>>67921368
>It a political philosophy that looks good on paper
And what is the actual content of this philosophy?
>>67913893
>communism
Created by Jews is what.
>>67913893
what exactly is wrong with government?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwztaQgv3-Y
>>67921336
Then what is *your* version Communism? Offer something and I can mock that.
>>67922530
I'm not a communist and I don't have a "version" of communism. Communism is a well-defined political idea. If you want to learn what it means then you should read a book written by a formative communist author, such as Karl Marx.
>>67920806
Don't you get that those power structures are somethings people like; law is inherent to society tribes have taboos, the strong enforce their rules on the weak, and if we're lucky and diligent we end up with a system where people are treated fairly by the law. The law isn't much more than tribal coercion, but it's necessary for the tribe as it is for society. Order is something that comforts the mind. It feels safer knowing there are police enforcing laws, and that the law grants me some leeway to protect myself: it's not bad if done correctly. There isn't a divine right to be in charge, but some people, by virtue of being in positions of power which must be held by someone simply because some specializations of labor will be more powerful than others (if someone is to coordinate efforts to maximize efficiency and ensure planning is followed up on the digging of an irrigation system for instance, or to ensure the coordination of large defensive armies to keep an outside force at bay), will be able to exercise that power. The rights you are talking about are simply products of someone exercising these already present power relations in varying ways, but so are the opposites you presented. Slavery has declined because law protects people from it. It didn't just vanish because people didn't want slaves and all just kind of wanted to be equal. In countries were the laws aren't enforced well, human trafficking happens all the time. You cannot enforce the abolition of rights without a governing state and the class structures that follow, any more than you could enforce the abolition of classes (paradoxically). There is no such thing as a "class consciousness" which would allow for such a thing to be enforced by everyone, and any conceivable semi-successful effort to create it would basically amount to brainwashing.
>>67922856
There are so many definitions of what people consider communism. The "meme" one you mention is the one I hear most often.
>I'm not a communist
Then let one of them respond. I want to see their responses and you're letting them avoid it.
>>67918705
Google New Harmony, Indiana, there lies your answer
>>67914472
/thread
>>67913893
>That pic
>>67917521
If a society can only thrive when it's people are under a boot than its a society that doesn't deserve to exist.
>>67913893
Becuase it is built through bureaucracy and bureaucracy can't make good things.
what is worse: communism or religion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njVB0xy2UrE
t. come and get one in the yarbles
>>67926724
Communism by far.
>>67925260
When the boot is worn by ordinary members of the nation, with an ethos of national service, and applied to the behinds of those seeking to establish parasitic and divisive economic systems, I welcome it. In the meantime, however, I support UKIP in Britain, and hope Trump wins over there.
>>67913893
It works in theory... should remain there.
>>67926886
and what about athiesm?
a bit cold and pointles, isn't it, my lovely?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs0Kq3M4idA
>>67927370
athiesm is just stage one of ideological invasion
>Communism treats people like human beings and fairly
Are you serious.
Okay, I've had enough of this liberal madness game now
>>67927461
it is funny that his music was used in the EU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNKvRZFKACI
>>67927551
No my friend, you need to do your research. Mao was a capitalist!
>>67927370
It is. My time as an atheist was dark, empty and miserable. I don't miss it.
>>67927461
Pretty much. Damage the people's faith and you have a huge gap to add your own views.
>>67913893
Communism is bad because of dependency. Humans need to be independent and pursue careers.
>>67913893
Communism encourages treating people unequally. It demands that if people have different outcomes, and all people WILL have different outcomes, that those with worse outcomes be treated better by the central authority than those with better outcomes.
>>67928298
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249MaK8UaIE
but religion can be oppressive too
and it has pretty bad publicity recently
>>67928872
That's why monarchy or fascism is useful I guess. They keep each other in line.
Religion can be oppressive if it's careless and if it's used by the ignorant. Pre-Vatican II and I think a lot of issues will go for the Catholics.
But I prefer Orthodoxy anyway.
>>67929153
we can discuss many thing but at the end we must obey the Deadly Communist Gangster Computer God
>>67915670
/rekt
I believe in elitist, closed off, communism
Only the smartest and the brightest are allowed, and they live together responsibly in a communist society
Basically out of the 7 and half billion people on earth, you take the top 75 million, basically 1 out of 100, and they live on an island in harmony
>>67913893
> Don't you think we're all human beings and deserve to be treated fairly?
I do, which is why I'm not a fucking communist.
>treated fairly
No.
>>67920173
>tfw they were dying off until we fucked it all up by importing them
if we'd taken an extra three centuries to reach Africa we would never have had this problem and the whole continent would be a Western-ruled paradise
>>67913893
people are inherently rotten assholes and communism does not have mechanisms to cope with the fact
>>67913893
Do you honestly think that an all-powerful government is going to treat you fairly, OP?
I think the latest group to try and "do it right this time" are the Venezuelans.
Draw your own conclusions, but don't forget to learn from other peoples mistakes.
>>67920550
You came here to be enlightened - did you not? Now, be enlightened!
