Give me 5 reasons why you think right-wing politics and policies are better than left-wing ones and I'll rebut every single reason. Challenge mode: Actually think about my rebuttals instead of posting a thread on one of your right-wing hugboxes. Not all hope is lost on you.
>>67905198
>tumblr post
>tumblr file name
rebut this: *unzips dick* you're a cuck
>>67905198
>>67905269
It's a picture from a game. Is all of tumblr necessarily bad? Also, it's from a game that would likely be right up your alley about norse mythology.
why am i even biting, nice post m8 i kekd hard
>>67905561
>p-please get into a pointless semantics argument with me
>p-please d-debate me guise
cuck
>>67905509
College proofessors are mostly centrists, try again. Shitty liberal arts teachers are pseudo-leftists and don't know any far-left ideology.
How about this: Why do you think this infographic would make you right? Is the best you can do really attack your opponent, not what he has to say? If so I'd recommend purchasing a gun and shooting yourself.
>>67905697
>ha! i got him there! i called him a cuck, now what's he gonna do?
>>67905198
I don't think anyone serious about politics on /pol/ necessarily thinks that left-wing is bad, though that rules out a lot of the dipshits here.
I do think, though, that they believe a lot of the current manifestation of left-wing is worse (e.g Sanders in USA, Corbyn here.)
>>67905808
cuck
>>67905198
Is it okay if I focus on a single issue?
>>67905198
>political wings
>>67905817
Sanders is not at all the kind of left wing I'm talking about, though personally I believe his policies are better than the others.
And no, only lurkers actually want to discuss shit. Regular posters just spam, as seen here.
>>67905850
>ha! i got him there! i called him a cuck, now what's he gonna do?
>>67905912
yes
Leftists hate firearms, free speech, and freedom in general
>>67905198
Shut up, nigger.
>>67905198
>muh left-right dichotomy
You're a fucking joke
Explain America has a gun problem rather than a black problem.
>>67905932
yeah the wing system is way flawed but if I outright state my ideology I'll be spammed into oblivion. Such is life when dealing with identity politics.
>>67905978
The best available data points towards gun policy having no measurable effect on homicide or suicide rates.
>>67905198
Welfare subsidises (encourges) poverty and helps perpetuate the problem endlessly over generations. The truth is people would be better off if taken off government's tittiew and forced to work to survive. Our country is going to default on its debt because we are being perpetually held down by two-trillion per year entitlement programs. I know we all want to help the poor, but we're literally doing it at the expense of the entire country. We'd be better off as a society and race if we just let nature take it's course: either work to survive or die off.
(Imagine if a lion said "I don't need to work for food, food is my basic lion right!" Humans are the only animal so entitled to think they should be given the fruits of other people's labor simply for existing).
>>67905198
Multiculturalism is a failure and the World would be better off without it.
>>67905198
America has never had a socialist government and is now the world's most strongest economy, this is not a coincidence.
>>67905978
Alright I'll bite
Sanders and Hitler fight for the same ideology
Socialism is a path to authoritarian control.
A central part of the left is big government and social programs that make people dependent on government.
>>67906103
gommie detected
>>>/reddit/
>>67905198
The fact that you're trying to dispute /pol/ is a pretty good indicator of your party's priorities
>>67906088
Why
>>67906098
No group of people is a problem. Sorry. I know you hate to hear this explanation, but it's the reality: Slavery continues to have a socioeconomic and epigenetic impact on the African-Americans today. Perhaps if blacks and whites and hispanics and asians and everyone else in America stopped viewing themselves as different groups and instead of one, American group, we could solve these problems.
Let's look at reality: You're not going to be able to deport black people or kill them, there are too many. So why don't we try to open the airways for discussing how to further American people, rather than splitting these groups apart and not helping the situation in any way?
Consider this: Poor people of all races have very similar statistics in general. It seems to me that the obvious solution would be to address problems by income than by race, no? I think if we moved everyone into the middle class, if we created youth programs to get kids off the streets, decriminalize drug use and help rehabilitate people, things would be very different. Few of these have ever been tried elsewhere in the world, so perhaps it's time to give these solutions a chance.
>>67906088
>>67906166
Yeah no, this is not a left-right issue here. I'm pro gun and I'm farrrr left. This is a social stance that changes as conditions change.
>>67905198
What do you consider left wing?
>>67905978
In that case, what exactly do you mean by left wing, in this case?
A lot of it comes down to personal liberty, though more so among Americans who seem to think they are the world's most free people.
>>67906314
I think that a welfare system is not necessarily a bad thing, but I do think that (unless you are actually handicapped), things like unemployment benefits should be temporary. How long it should be is up for debate, really.
There is also the claim that can be applied to all countries, but was of course said by the glorious Farage, for which he was called racist, that "British people should be prioritised first" with regards to things like housing and jobs.
Testing
>Guns bring crime WAAAAY down.
>Left wing policies are about government spending more than bringing in, right wing is about having a balanced budget.
>Pro life policies bring a high population, which improves economy, and gives you a bigger military.
>Securing the border reduces crime and improves the economy.
>Protecting small businesses improves economy.
>Low taxes improve happiness of citizens and improves economy.
>Restricting fossil fuels makes the economy worse and reduces jobs available.
>A standardized education system (Common Core) is retarded because all children are different.
Refute me, you cuck.
>>67906785
>So why don't we try to open the airways for discussing how to further American people,
Sounds like nationalist right wing mumbo jumbo to me senpai.
>>67905757
I don't know what college you went to, but I sure as hell got plenty of far-left professors. Anecdotal evidence isn't going to prove shit.
>>67906785
>Poor people of all races have very similar statistics in general
That's not true.
Blacks make up 12% of the us population but are responsible for more than 50% of violent crimes and murders
>>67905198
What do you think is right wing policy? I mean you set up a priori rules like gun control isn't a left-right issue even if it has defined left-right discourse in America. Lay it on the table what you think is right wing-left wing.
>>67906785
When more culturally distinctive groups live in one place it cause conflict. People will always group themselves.
I agree that in case of blacks (from slavery times), they should be included, as they are part of USA, but there is no reason to import more shitskins, which will cause further problems.
Also, if you move everyone in middle class, there is no middle class anymore, as it is defined in relation to rich/poor.
>>67907054
>guns preventing crime
Stopped reading, reported for being underaged, post hidden.
>>67906314
Demonstrably untrue, seeing that countries with large welfare states have seen large decreases in poverty since WWII. I understand the sentiment, but it's contradicted by reality. Simple as that. And no, we're not animals, people do indeed feel and think, so letting people die off is not an option in the minds of well adjusted people.
>>67906408
A socialist economy doesn't mean anything. A communist economy is the only thing that would make sense, and that means public or state ownership of the means of production. However, these are very different, and thus I like to classifiy them as different things: STate capitalism is where the state takes on the role of the private entity in controlling the means of production, and public ownership is worker control (See: Worker's Self-Management, Syndicalism and Anarcho-Syndicalism, labor unions, Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War.)
No place in the world has ever had public ownership aside from Catalonia, and it was a smashing success there. I think the principles of Worker's Self-Management could be applied everywhere to see similar success. In the modern world, in fact, Worker owned companies tend to be far more productive than their privately owned counterparts.
>>67906529
>Sanders and Hitler fight for the same ideology
Demonstrably untrue, once again. National Socialism is very different from regular socialism. Just because they had extensive welfare programs does not make it socialist, no collectivization process had began. They adopted the interesting doctrine of class-cooperation rather than class struggle, something that is perhaps worth looking at. I'm ultimately against class cooperation though, the world would be better classless.
>Socialism is a path to authoritarian control.
Socialism is really poorly defined when you actually look at the books. It's a transitional period between capitalism and communism and can take on many forms. Some are authoritarian, some aren't.
>>67905198
I don't care about blacks and women, I'm a white man and I want to further my own agenda just like they want to further theirs. Yeah I'm priviledged, I'd like to keep it that way. I don't care about equality, and neither does anyone else. White women in the west are also extremly priviledged, if they want equality why are they asking for more and not less? Close the wage gap? Alright we'll pay you the same as a chinese factory worker. They don't want equality they want more, everyone just wants more. They want to move up the ladder by "closing the gap" between them and the person infront. The people at the top can't use that excuse to further their own agenda, so they are called right wing, even though they want the same as everyone else: more.
>>67906785
>Perhaps if blacks and whites and hispanics and asians and everyone else in America stopped viewing themselves as different groups and instead of one, American group, we could solve these problems.
Then stop support the party that employs divivng the races up as a political strategy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI9MCvK2MGs
Ask yourself why the Trump supporter is making your exact argument against left wing protesters.
>>67907649
Not that guy, but:
>The world would be better classless.
You do realize that there are those that supercede others no matter what in any time of society, right? Some just simply have more than others, and as such in practice you made everyone poor so that way you could feed this brand new "class".
Bonus points if you know who I'm referring to as a new "class" type system. The hint is that it was present in 1984.
>>67907649
We are dealing with a neo-left movement that openly advocates socialism and calls for the genocide of what they see as the ruling class, the whites. You can't tell you you DONT see the parallels to Hitler and the Nazis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC-Cqkq6zWc
>>67905198
I was a Cruz Missile, but OP has made me convert to a Bernout, such intellectualism!
Here, OP. Have ten.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj9qvBwOeMA
>>67906529
Cont'd
>A central part of the left is big government and social programs that make people dependent on government.
Once again, not true. There are different sides of the left, you have the anarchist side and the left-authoritarian side (pretty much left fascism. See: National Bolshevism, National Syndicalism and Flanagism and Strasserism, National Communism)
>>67906817
Any ideology that encourages public ownership or state ownership of the means of production and is also very liberal in terms of social policies.
>>67906889
See above.
>>67907054
I can't tell if this is bait or not because most of this is contradicted by reality.
>>67907305
>IN GENERAL
What do I mean by that? Poorer people tend to commit more violent crimes and use drugs more than Middle class and Rich people. This is supported by statistics. Ultimately, the reason why black homicide is so high is gang violence, which can be solved by helping with poverty, getting black people hopeful about education again, and creating youth programs. The black crime rate wasn't always this high, so obviously it can be solved.
>>67907461
pls no racism. If people didn't see eachother as different there wouldn't be problems. Indeed, plenty of pre-racist empries were multicultural and did just fine. The Roman Empire, the Tang Dynasty, the Mongols, people co-operate when they feel connected regardless of "race" and culture.
>>67906380
>OP doesn't answer you.
Welp.
>>67905561
at least tell us the game u inconsiderate faggot
All i want is to be left alone.
Left wing policies actively involve my misery to their own ends. why am I responsible for the actions and well-being of another I do not know? I don't believe I'm selfish for looking out for myself.
Fuck obamacare I was fine with my old insurance policy. Why did my premiums go up just to pay for some hypocondriac?
I love guns. Why deny them to me?
If I don't bother anyone why must you bother me?
Why do you force me to pay for the sins of my forefathers when you don't force people to answer for their current crimes?
Why do you try to indoctrinate me and my children into your way of thinking? Is your ideology so weal you must shut out all opposition?
>>67905198
What I dislike about you people is your false sense of superiority. Just stay the fuck out of my business, I'm an adult and can believe in whatever I please.
Left-wing is evil because it supports a collective I disagree with over individuality (libertarianism) or a collective I might eventually agree with (fascism).
>>67905808
You still havent done anything, cuck.
>>67908524
>anarchist side
You're talking about Libertarianism. Or it's most extreme form, anrco-capitalism. people tend to lump that in with the Right, not the left.
You are aware that Ron Paul reached meme levels on /pol/ last election?
>>67908943
t. Alberto Barbosa
>>67909124
That's Mr. Barbosa, for you thanks.
>>67905757
Please, my fucking Spanish professor keeps pushing socialist ideas on the students. Get fucking real.
>>67909080
Left libertarianism is a thing although an even less popular idea than right wing libertarianism, or he might be an anarcocommunist which is just full blown retardation
>>67908524
>pls no racism. If people didn't see eachother as different there wouldn't be problems. Indeed, plenty of pre-racist empries were multicultural and did just fine. >The Roman Empire, the Tang Dynasty, the Mongols, people co-operate when they feel connected regardless of "race" and culture.
They didn't care about race so much, but they did care about culture. You're a fool if you think that ancient society's like the Roman Empire were multicultural in the modern sense.
>>67907906
Because they aren't left-wing? Bernie Sanders is employing the same kind of rhetoric, I don't know if you care to notice. He never talks about race unless he's forced to, he talks about class.
>>67908106
It's funny you mention 1984. By George Orwell. A well known ANARCHO-SYNDICALIST that was writing about STALINISM. There are different types of left wing. If we get rid of the state, we get rid of class. People can appoint their own leaders, but fundamentally the world would be classless. Catalonia almost made it to that point, but the STALINISTS destroyed it. Classlessness is indeed possible, but it's a process that takes time. Can you not imagine a stateless world?
>>67908652
Because it's a baseless shitpost considering human societies have been multicultural up until recently and civilization still exists. Did the roman empire collapse because of ethnically based conflicts? No, and it's intellectually dishonest to claim that it did. It collapsed from being invaded.
>>67908883
You like liberty? I hope you don't try to shit on other's liberties with your ideology, then. If you do, I'm gonna tell you you're fucking wrong.
>>67909080
No. I'm not. Sorry. There is an anarchist left. Please read about it. Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are jokes. I advocate for the complete abolition of the state in favor of decentralized economic decision making. Workers owning their workplaces. Producing for the community instead of for profit. I am fundamentally anti-capitalism. I encourage you to read about it, because the anarchist left solves every single problem the right likes to bring up with the left, all while allowing people to act how they please in their own small communities.
>>67909334
I'm between an anarcho-communist and a left-libertarian. I style myself as an anarcho-syndicalist who ultimately sees anarcho-communism as the end goal.
>>67909280
elaborate, you and I have very different definitions of socialist and I know that.
>>67908943
No, read about the far left instead of sticking to platitudes.
>>67905757
You blatantly lie like a typical liberal. Try to take a required philosophy course without The Communist Manifesto and feminist bullshit shoehorned in there. When will you just be honest with everyone and say that you intend to destroy this country?
>>67908524
>Any ideology that encourages public ownership or state ownership of the means of production and is also very liberal in terms of social policies.
What exactly is the 'means of production' in a post-industrial society?
A nation having all the same common, united culture is better off than a multicultural nation, as ethnic strife is inevitable when cultures clash.
Lower taxes allow for people to decide how to best better themselves.
Private property and business ownership is the best way to protect against government tyranny.
Protectionist economic policies allow for more jobs to be brought back to a country and have people use their won country's money to buy their own country's goods, spurring growth for everyone as money circulates throughout society.
All people are not the same.
>>67908524
>Any ideology that encourages public ownership or state ownership of the means of production and is also very liberal in terms of social policies.
Is feudalism with enlightened monarch leftist? All land belong to monarch, who is state, while he allow liberal social practices. Probably one of reasons socialism took hold in Russia of all places.
>pls no racism bla bla
In all those cultures existed clear hierarchy between peoples. Or total integration, you could become equal citizen if you fully integrated and left your culture. Both would be today considered racism.
Personal responsibility
Self-defense
Limit tyranny
The way the history of human civilization is sort of like this: intellectual man enslaves primitive man. Primitive man rises up, each time more violent and ruthless in his extermination of the controllers.
It's a power struggle between the strong savage and the feeble cultured, who must find unnatural ways to retake control and successfully breed. He is always exposed and thwarted betrayed by his own nature and tendency to overreach.
I pick the savage if given a choice.
>>67909678
I prefer the far right, desu. Not interested in supporting anyone or anything with my hard work but myself and my interests.
>>67909678
She's advocating for a leader like Hugo Chavez to rule this country while openly shilling for Bernie and """"""free college"""""" as well as offering points if you show her you registered to vote for said """""free college""""
>>67909517
>Can you not imagine a stateless world?
no, actually, i cant, because someone will always try to direct others, and someone will always let them. Hierarchy is an inevitable element of human nature.
>>67909837
>government tyranny.
But what about the nobles, the rich elite that has traditionally had power equal to that of a government, and whose tyranny has been just as apparent and widespread as the governments' throughout history?
>>67909517
>Because they aren't left-wing? Bernie Sanders is employing the same kind of rhetoric, I don't know if you care to notice. He never talks about race unless he's forced to, he talks about class.
Until he says shit like white people can't be poor.
Dividing the races and sexes and arranging them in a hiracy of oppression is now the mainstream position of the vocal left. We call it cultrual marxism.
Bernie has played to it plenty of times.
This thread sucks shit.
>>67905198
I just don't want to give nearly 50% of what I make to the government. If he can make things like college and healthcare free but without raising taxes I'm all ears.
>>67910299
>traditionally had power equal to that of a government
you just ruined your own argument. assuming you're talking about medieval europe, the nobles you speak of owned all of the land, and they were very powerful and could potentially resist the king or government. meanwhile, the serfs didnt own shit, and they were subject to mass tyranny
>>67910154
Register to vote, take the points
Then tell her you voted for Trump.
Be alpha.
>>67910620
I figured I had to tone it down or the "burn all statists!" crowd wouldn't believe me.
>>67909517
>You like liberty? I hope you don't try to shit on other's liberties with your ideology, then. If you do, I'm gonna tell you you're fucking wrong.
You leave me to be, I don't give a damn about you. Easy as that. Just don't fuck around with me, my believes or my stuff.
>>67910720
Way ahead of you buddy
>>67909938
You're right, let me append my definition so you can't shitpost: state ownership, where the state is run by the workers. But If you knew a damn thing about feudalism you'd understand that the state owns fuck all.
>>67909938
>In all those cultures existed clear hierarchy between peoples
Not governed by race.
>Or total integration, you could become equal citizen if you fully integrated and left your culture
Let's look at the consequences of that retarded assertion, shall we?
The french language shouldn't exist right now because the Gaulish people in France became citizens. In order to become citizens they had to be be fully Romanized. The Gallo-Roman language and culture did not exist.
I'm glad you know so much about history :'-)
>>67910074
Interestingly, left wing anarchism is the thing for you. Unless, of course, being exploited and tied to the land is in your interest? Or being forced to "work for the state!" is in your interest? To each his own.
>>67910154
Hugo Chavez was a populist retard that took the name Socialist. Report her if she's doing that other shit. None of that is socialism.
>>67910318
But he's never said white people can't be poor so I'm not seeing your point. And no, dividing people is not a left postion. It's a right position. If you didn't fucking know that the Democrats are to the right then I don't fucking know what to tell you. Do the work before you criticize, don't listen to media spam. Oh yeah, the media isn't left like you seem to think it is: Communism is literally never mentioned on the air, which is the bare minimum of leftist thought.
And cultural marxism doesn't fucking mean what you think it means, the Frankfurt School has nothing to do with dividing groups of people like you seem to think it does, it's all about an anti-positivist approach to social sciences. Kill yourself.
>>67910814
Your retardation affects everyone else.
>>67910562
Well taxation isn't socialism so I'm not really sure where this is coming from. Over a certain point you don't need money and it actualy hurts they economy to give the super-rich money, because instead of investing they save the money in overseas banks. If we taxed people like that 50% the world would be a far better place. But I'm not here to talk about the capitalist mode of production.
>>67905198
>we're all equal
There are as many Whites living in poverty as there are niggers and spics combined.
Niggers and spics have roughly the same poverty rate.
>>67910982
>Your retardation affects everyone else.
So does yours, that's just how retardation works.
>>67910982
>he's never said white people can be poor
But he has though
>>67905757
>college professors are mostly centrists
Lie-berals at it again.
http://dailysignal.com/2016/01/14/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservative-faculty-5-to-1-academics-explain-why-this-matters/
>>67911253
Cant*
>>67908524
>pls no racism
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand opinion discarded. Go and stay go, you faggot.
>>67905561
what game?
>>67911198
Touche.
>>67911253
I don't care for bourgeois politics but I'd like to see a link to that.
>>67911279
Holy shit
Are capitalists left-wing now, and I wasn't told?
Kill yourself.
>>67905198
you wouldn't know right wing policies even if they shoved a steel toed boat up your arse.
>>67911420
So I win, because you have no rebuttal and instead try to take what was obviously a joke (considering what board Im on) seriously as a reason to leave? Why are you even alive?
>>67911506
Eitr.
>>67911525
>I don't care for bourgeois politics but I'd like to see a link to that.
Marxist faggot detected
>>67911670
I actually know the definition of right wing in this context better than you do so I don't know what to tell you. Kill yourself?
>>67911525
Don't act like you don't know
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DM80q20EWKM
>>67911525
Capitalism is just economic system moron, its not a political ideology. You can have capitalist dictators, socialist countries that are capitalist like mine, etc.
Plus, all I did was show lefties make up almost 2/3 of active professors, colleges are anything but moderate in terms of politics.
Communism and land/wealth redistribution are inevitabley statist.
How Will you fix the technical problem if you destroy the technical Europeans by interbreeding them with People who have no Tech thoughts.
All races have different atributes.
The Europeans are technical.
The africans are adapted to tropical conditions.
The arabs have math skills but they are not technical minded.
And so on.
How would you solve this dilema?
>>67911792
Really? neo liberalisim is "right wing" fuck off midget.
too much left can get crazy and needs a moderate amount of right to balance it out.
It's called right wing because it's right.
Checkmate left wingers
>>67905198
Define right wing and left wing. Because today there is no right wing. Only left and social darwinist left.
>>67905198
>skips over my post (>>67909837)
i bet its a shitpost huh?
>>67911679
>I was only pretending to be retarded
Kill yourself desu
>>67911739
So uh
All the talk about how I'm an anarcho-syndicalist went over you head? And you're just now realizing that I'm a marxist? Time to kill yourself.
>>67911819
Damn. His policies are still better than his opponent's, but that's annoying.
>>67910982
How am I being exploited if I voluntarily work for another person? Also, I think you're fucking insane if you believe left-wing anarchism is even a thing. If there were anarchy, you think people would all work for one goal? This would turn into a militarized version of Mad Max and a free-for-all until order was established yet again by a group. You must think every person on this planet is like you and can't start their own business. What if It's me who's "exploiting" people by voluntarily "forcing" bakers in my bakery to cook delicious crackers?
And, as I said, I only like the collective when it thinks exactly like me. Leftists don't think like me.
>>67905198
The right believes in freedom and limited government.
The left longs for an all powerful centralized state that holds the belief we are all property of said state.
We are free men and women, while you long to be a government slave.
So shut up slave.
>>67910982
wew lad
Hey just because you have gone so far left everything is right wing to you doesn't mean the democrats are not to the left of our position and most of america's position.
That is insane.
You're just a commie.
You're in a different class, stop referring to yourself as "left wing"
>>67912030
Lol Catalan anarchists GOT RAEP BY FASCISM ahahaha let's not talk about how there was a lot of reported coercion going on by the Anarchists during the civil war. We have no clue what that shit tier experiment would look like outside that climate. Gas your self dumb kike college hippy.
weedman 5 times
>>67912338
Commies are so Leftwing NatSoc looks right wing to them.
>>67912237
To be fair, OP is apparently an anarchist. Anarchists don't believe that states in any form are necessary. Makes me wonder what the weather in Somalia is like this time of year.....
>>67911525
How about race does not exist, when it is extremely evident that the races are very different (and minorities will be the first ones to tell you when it benefits them). Liberals talk about race without ever living around minorities (besides college), that is what pisses me off the most about you. You grew up in nice communities and then tell people like me that have lived in a black/hispanic community that its all the same, no it' not, you lack experience and yet proclaim to be right.
>If you are a real "liberal" go live in an all black community, raise your white kids in an all black community, and then preach about how self righteous you are, but you won't because you are a hypocrite.
>>67911525
Just because you think university professors perpetuate capitalist institutions doesn't make them any less prone to harboring liberal sentiments. Contrary to what the far left thinks, they are still promoting left wing policies even if it's not in the way they want it to be.
>>67908524
>pls no racism
>>67910982
> Kill yourself
>>67911525
>Kill yourself
>>67911792
>Kill yourself?
Wew lad
master debater
>>67911865
No, the capitalist mode of production is, whether you like it or not, the thing that determines left- or right. Communist mode is left, capitalist mode is right.
>>67911907
In the context of our discussion yes. It's to the left and down from classical interventionism but it's still to the right of me. It's in the right wing, by definition.
>>67911987
Capitalist mode of production=Right wing. Communist mode of production=Left wing. That's the only good definition that exists.
>>67909837
I addressed you points indirectly through other means already. If you'd like to have a more in-depth discussion about it you can email me but I don't feel the need to cover my bases again.
>>67912022
"pls no racism"
Look at the grammar used in my posts, does that look like it was a joke or not?
>>67912134
k to each their own.
>>67912237
already talked about, read the thread next time
>>67912338
so just because they're to the left of your position they're left wing? well, ok. instead of using a solid definition you like using you vague one to make me have to deal with people who have more in common ideologically with you than with me.
fuck yourself.
>>67912864
i mean but somalia is in a state of civil war and there are multiple states competing for power so once again: i don't know what to tell you.
>>67912901
i mean im a black guy and i fucking hate the idea of race regardless of if it benefits me or not. i look around and i see fellow humans. just different world views i guess
>>67912453
ye k the shitpost is strong here. catalonia wasn't perfect i agree but it's the only example ive got and it's a good one, if you look at the statistics. so kys or something
>>67912632
because they are right wing (i.e. they support the capitalist mode) so i dont know what to tell you
>>67912980
define liberal because i think there's some confusion here.
>>67913116
the thread devolved into shitposting and me having to repeat myself so this experiment is done.
>>67912134
Don't listen to this kike
I'll give you just one:
Basing the entirety of the ideology behind your political system upon egalitarianism is wrong and doesn't work, and in practice doesn't even manage to achieve egalitarianism at all.
>>67913210
No, no, no. Answer me. Come on.
>>67913210
>I'm a black guy
Fucking wew lad
>>67913210
How is justice delivered in a communist stateless society?
>>67906098
We have neither a gun, nor a black problem.
We have a problem with niggers, white trash, and beaners.
In other words, obama voters.
>>67913210
>im a black guy
>>67913210
I am going to give you one serious reply.
Start looking at politics as as spheres not axises if you want to know what makes /pol/ tick.
>>67905198
Conservative policy is based on thousands of years of proven human experience and trial-and-error. Liberal policy is based on abstract ideas made by wealthy intellectuals who have never interacted with the ugly realities of society.
Burke, Möser, and Hegel were saying this in the 1770s and Merkel's misguided idiocy has proven them right once again.
>>67910982
If the gauls wanted to be treated as romans, if it was even possible, they had to romanize. Otherwise they were second class provincials.
>>67913210
>the thread devolved into shitposting and me having to repeat myself so this experiment is done.
Your argument was hey pol tell me whats wring with the left wing.
Then pol told you.
Then you said lolno that's all part of the right wing because im an an insane commie.
You're the shitposter here.
Your entire argument was the no true scotsman fallcy.
>>67907649
>ownership of the means of production
How can you consider yourself a serious debate partner when you're using terminology even 1950s Communists considered obsolete and cringeworthy?
lmao@u
>>67913210
>No, the capitalist mode of production is, whether you like it or not, the thing that determines left- or right. Communist mode is left, capitalist mode is right.
I would disagree. Egalitarianism is the core of the ideological differences. Which is why fascism is considered right-wing while being against capitalism.
I would have liked to take OP seriously but all the
>kill yourself
>why are you even alive
>you're retarded
>etc etc
makes it too hard for me to respect OP or his opinion.
Shitty thread.
>>67908772
OP, refute this.
Protip: you can't.
>>67905198
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
>>67905198
if by leftism you mean meme internationalism and not classical leftism you are wrong
not morally, but pragmatically, you're scientifically proven to be wrong
>>67905198
Left wing policies are decidedly more violent, in that you want government wherever you are. You want to violently subjugate people and extort them, and the idea that you wouldn't be doing that causes you sever mental distress and discomfort. Abominable.
>>67908524
>The black crime rate wasn't always this high, so obviously it can be solved.
Isn't this statement a scathing indictment of liberal's policies for Black people? It wasn't high when traditionalism and right wing values were held near and dear. Suddenly 'muh abortions' 'muh womens rights (divorce)' from Liberals, then you get destruction of the family unit and since Big Government is there to try and pick up the pieces nothing actually gets solved.
Do you just have a different view of what 'left wing' and 'right wing' are? As to completely disregard everything you're saying as justification for the REAL differences and policies of Left and Right wing parties in America?
Fuck you're dumb son.
>>67913210
>Multiple states competing for power
If by "states" you mean loosely associated rival clans battling over the scraps of Somalia's collapsed central authority, then sure.
Ironically, the only decent part of that shithole is Somaliland, which runs itself like most modern nation-states and used to be a protectorate of the EBUL BRITISH IMPERIALIZTS.
>>67915275
There's no fundamental difference between tribal murderers and subjugators and "modern" murderers and subjugators. They're all doing the same thing - murdering and subjugating. Everything else is just worthless fluff.
>>67913210
It's obvious most people do not think like you, I mean multiculturalism has been pushed on everyone (pre-k to sr. year in college that is all I heard) and still people segregate from each other. Even people that preach multiculturalism whether white, black, asian, hispanic seem to live among their own.
You also have to realize that this is ONLY being pushed in white countries, no where else on the planet. You do not think that is strange? You do not see how a people do not want to see their heritage fall apart before their eyes, and if they speak up they are silenced and labeled a racist?
We have the right to want
>nationalism
>hegemony
>pride in our people
Because these are the things that have fueled the west to be where it is now, and we have been falling ever since we adopted these backwards leftist policies.
>>67909517
Bernie said that white people can't know poverty.
>>67911525
>>67914044
I disagree. It means you are for a french monarchy
>>67916425
Considering we don't have a french monarch to sit politicians to the right or the left of, egalitarianism will have to do.
>>67915549
Funny you should say that, since the "Modern murderer and subjugator" in this instance is the only one that's run in a peaceful and democratic manner.
>>67916912
There's nothing peaceful about any government.
>>67905198
There's nothing you can do that you haven't already undone yourself.
My energy is not yours to take to draw awareness to those places but rest assured that the rest of the world can see through you plain as day.
>>67913210
>Experiment is over
KEKEKEKKEEKEKE
So delusional, such superiority, such faggot.
How about you take your own advice and kill yourself eh?
There are significant differences between the populations of the world that are far more than skin deep. You can't just override it and expect everyone to live along side each other harmoniously. Undoing thousands of years cultural programming and heritable traits that were a result of living in their original societies for so long is a long drawn out process. The vast majority of people won't willingly abandon their customs and norms so easily. Endeavors like that are often chaotic and involve the displacement and loss of particular populaces. That's a reason I personally prefer homogeneous societies as they're typically more stable and secure. Right wing policies are just better suited for preserving and maintaining the social fabric and survival of a society with the least expense and effort as possible. Rules and regulations are less focused on making the individual and collective entities to conform but rather to let them perform on their own accord. When you're able to depend on yourself before you need to depend on the state it's a lot easier to move beyond the confines of your social status and upbringing. Any society that already predetermines the path that it is heading towards means that there are no easy ways to cut losses when the going gets tough.
>>67905269
>unzipping your dick
>>67907202
Like the banks did in '08?
>>67907268
define far-left in your own terms, just so it's clear what you mean
>>67906785
>Consider this: Poor people of all races have very similar statistics in general. It seems to me that the obvious solution would be to address problems by income than by race, no?
This is not the leftist stance. Standard leftists support affirmative action and other "reverse discrimination" policies.
>>67917011
That's a load of anarchist claptrap. Somaliland is the only part of that failed country where it's citizens decide who gets to run it, and where transitions of power don't occur at gunpoint.
>>67906529
>Hitlers notion of Socialism
>Same as Marx notion of Socialism
Uuuuuuh
>>67917784
You're necessarily extorting people if you have a government - that's necessarily violent. Unless you think taxation is voluntary and goons aren't held to have a monopoly on the use of violent force, in which case you don't *have* a government.
Unless you're willing to leave people - people who haven't done shit to anyone else - alone, you're a violent faggot and should go fulfill your government cock quota.
>>67917540
>being a newfag
>>67914889
If ethnocentrism (nationalism) is superior, why did it lose to humanitarianism in our history?
>>67905198
I don't like taxing people who work and paying people who dont. Your response?
>>67918162
>humanitarianism
what do you mean by this?
>>67906785
>Poor people of all races have very similar statistics in general
Poor whites have lower crime rates than wealthy blacks.
Disregarded the rest of your thread. I'm out.
>>67918265
the person I quoted had a simulation run comparing societies, and the ethnocentric societies defeated the humanitarian (I assume multicultural/liberal) societies.
So I wonder why did that not happen in our world?
Ethnocentrism lost to multiculturalism, liberalism and internationalism.
>>67913210
I have a somewhat slightly aligned ideas with you, but i am racist and i believe in the need of a state. I mean people talk they want freedom and what not, but are the first to call the police when they ar scared. Freedom is a great thing to talk and discuss when one is safe and protected.
Now go back to Africa you filthy monkey
>>67906785
>implying material wealth is the only cause of crime
Commies are really autistic about this trend. They assume everything must be governed by how much money a person has.
Some people refuse to integrate or cooperate with the laws of a region because they have inherently different ethnic and cultural values.
>>67918415
>Ethnocentrism lost to multiculturalism, liberalism and internationalism.
it did politically, in the western world, thanks to/because of financial interests and outside intervention.
However, when we look at populations, ethnocentrism is still the prevalent ideology.
>>67905198
Right wing politics promote conservative economic policy and homogeneous populace, both of which lead to prosperity in the majority of real-world applications. Right wing politics promote net positive reproduction by intolerance to social theory and norms which detract from reproduction (homosexuality, abortion, general perversion). Right wing politics promote personal accountability, not dependance upon governance for security, physical and financial.
>>67913210
Opinion on Piketty ?
>>67918027
>muh feels, the post
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i no want to pay taxes!!!!! wahhhhhh them evil bad people are extorting me, wahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will tell you something, nobody gives a fuck about libertarianism or ancap
>>67906785
>why
Personal responsibility
> you should rely on the government to protect you, you can't be trusted with deadly force
Personal responsibility
> you should rely on the government/platforms to censor the speech you read and promote, you can't be trusted with speaking without a filter
Personal responsibility
> If you're free to X then you're going to Y. The government is here to protect you and those around you from the bad choices you're going to make. If you're free to make a choice, you're going to make the wrong one. We know better, trust the government
>>67918896
>I love violence and people's cocks in my ass, the post
>>67910982
How has communism worked out in the past m8? I get that labor is intrinsically undervalued. But equality of outcome leads to stagnation and failure.
>>67905198
hmm, 5 reasons?
well, I'll start with one
leftism is based on the false idea that everyone is the same. this produces a false view of reality where if any group is doing badly it must be because of discrimination rather than because they are stupid or useless as a group
leftism wants to redistribute the wealth when in fact this is theft
leftism wants to pay the poor, but this just produces more poor
leftism imports millions of low IQ backwards shitskin peasant savages, then pretends there are no ill effects
leftism supports genocide of Whites, but supports the right of all other fcultures, creeds and ethnicities to preserve themselves
leftism has ridiculous double standards e.g. they support free speach, but only if you agree with them. they support non-violence as long as you don't disagree with them. anyone they don't like is labeled fascist or hitler, they don't see their own bigotry
finally, they actively suppress other peoples rights whilst claiming they are tolerant and play the victim whilst pretending to hold the moral highground
for instance: all Whites are bad, this is bigotry
all men are bad
all intolerant people are bad
in short, they are fucking insane
>>67906785
>You're not going to be able to deport black people or kill them, there are too many.
wait a sec, are you denyong the holocaust you anti-semite
>>67918802
>Right wing politics promote conservative economic policy and homogeneous populace
LOLOLOLOLOL, Bush continued importing millions of mexicans. I don't think wars are "conservative economy policy".
>Right wing politics promote net positive reproduction by intolerance to social theory and norms which detract from reproduction (homosexuality, abortion, general perversion).
What is this?
>Right wing politics promote personal accountability, not dependance upon governance for security, physical and financial.
Is this some republican party add?
>>67905198
Trust and social cohesion are endowed to us and encoded in our genes through hierarchical social constructs like patriarchy and ethnocentrism.
Attempts to dismantle these things also dismantle trust and social cohesion leaving behind an "automized" confused, chaotic distrustful people.
I suppose leftists believe that if race and gender were to be destroyed than humanity could truly see each other as one united people but what has happened is that the "body" and "individual" has replaced the nation and religion. Wars used to be fought for nation and religion they are now fought for the body and the individual. Leaving us open for unlimited violence at every vector of humanity.
We need to go back to the collectivism in which we evolved from. Patriarchal ethnocentrism or nationalism where the nation is just a pseudonym for the ethno-group of a certain population.
I don't care about economics.
>>67919075
Much by the contrary. I love to pay people trough taxes so that they supply me with services (protection, safety...). It's has no violence in it. My father simply files IRS in April every month it's done.
>>67919531
>I reiterate that I love violence and people's cocks in my ass; the post
>>67918027
Lol, you sound like a dumb AnCap faggot. Taxes pay for a variety of services and amenities provided to you by the government that your life would be shit without. Hospitals, roads, public education, etc. Rational people are cognizant of that fact and understand the necessity for these institutions. Where they disagree is at which level people need to be taxed. You can go back to complaining about the EVIHHHHHL!1!1!1! IRS on kikebook now, nigger.
>>67919240
There was never a communist system in history. At least not in large scale.
>>67919269
>leftism is based on the false idea that everyone is the same.
I always thought "right wing" prouded themselves with that exact sentece
>this produces a false view of reality where if any group is doing badly it must be because of discrimination rather than because they are stupid or useless as a group
I am somewhat leftist, and i am racist. Stop believing in memes.
>leftism wants to redistribute the wealth when in fact this is theft
Oh, nevermind, just ignore this
Explain this.
Why does your disgusting friends like to ruin everything? Thank god that PINOCHET killed ALLENDE,and show the world how to run a country.
>It's a "not the real left" thread
>>67907649
>A communist economy is the only thing that would make sense
how do you motivate people to perform and innovate if they get the same benefits no matter how hard they work or how clever they are?
>>67919733
If the mafia extorted you and used your money to build sidewalks, taught your children, and to provide their goons with weapons in case of invasions of the neighborhood from rival mafia would you defend them, cuck?
>>67908393
>Hey, let's set up a society of workers, soldiers, peasants and intellectuals
Bill, you can be the worker and manufacture all our goods
Jim, you can be the soldier and get your leg blown off fighting all our wars
Ted, you can be the peasant and supply all our food
and what will you do?
>Oh, I will be the intellectual and sit all day on my arse telling you all what to do
Some animals are more equal than others
google Why Johnny Can't Think pdf or check 4+4chan /pdfs/
>>67919886
You don't have to prep the bull .
>>67908524
>Poorer people tend to commit more violent crimes
criminals tend to impoverish the areas where they live as rich people move out as quickly as they can, leaving only the poor and the criminal
>>67905198
Give me 5 reasons why you think left wing politics and polices are better than right wing ones
Seriously, we would go back and forth for hours. I'm a Libertarian, you're a lefty, there is no real point sadly until we just yell at each other until one quits and the other is the 'winner'. I can not change you, you can not change me
>>67909473
mutliculturalism kills empires because people have divided loyalties
it happened to the romans
>>67907649
>Catalonia's anatchist
>Success.
When will this fucking meme die. Anarchist just fucked the republicans so hard that they literally cost them the war. Their little experiment was Franco's biggest ally. I thank them for being retards btw.
>>67919603
Ok, weeabo. My ass is virgin, and i never even entered in a fight in my life.
You win bro ;)
>>67919930
>If they didn't brought war and death to my house, then yes.
>>67919832
When a country is blockaded for 50 years, it's prone to et a little poor and behind in technology. But still Cuba is a sucessfull case of "socialism" dispite of the conditions
>>67920221
>Give me 5 reasons why you think left wing politics and polices are better than right wing ones
Some are pure shit, and others make some important cases and bring solutions to the table. Just like right wing ones
>>67920224
Empires fail because they are built on conquest.
>>67920352
You can deny your love of anal penetration all you want - it won't make it any less true ;)
>>67920444
Wrong.
Why is it moral to support abortion, and not just for the child's sake.
One of the biggest reasons why people were conservative when it came to sex back then was because if not you would risk having an unwanted child that could wreck you financially during an era where abortion was not available.
The lack of fear has spawned a generation of promiscuous people who can no longer trust their significant others to be loyal to their relationship and to keep their legs closed.
Legalizing abortion is part of the reason why sex is now a commodity and why women act like fuck machines
>>67920305
What you say and what he says don't overlap. The anarchist' economic system was a success never seen before, moreso in the middle of a war. But their politic play cost them the war.
>>67906098
its a class problem.
>>67908524
>getting black people hopeful about education again
The USA already spends billions on Black public schools.
>The black crime rate wasn't always this high, so obviously it can be solved.
It's welfare reform by Lyndon B. Johnson which caused the breakdown of the African-American family. Turns out giving a man a fish encourages him to neglect his fishing equipment.
>Indeed, plenty of pre-racist empries were multicultural and did just fine. The Roman Empire
The Roman Empire was not multicultural. It smashed every single culture it conquered and ruthlessly assimilated entire peoples. As far as diversity being good, maybe don't use the militaristic empire with millions of slaves that eventually fell to migrating groups as an example.
>>67911155
or we could tax it at lower rates and they might invest it intheir own company if not penalised
>>67913327
true
no White men have ever run under 10 seconds in the 100m sprint, no blackman has ever won a strongman competition
>>67915179
the break up of the family is the major factor
and guess who did that by saying they would pay for kids, but only if there was noman in the house
>>67915866
amen dubsbro
>>67917448
higher amounts of community spirit
>>67917871
national socialism not being left-wing, do go and look up his manifesto and tell me which bits are right wing, go on, I bet you won't huefaggot
>>67919796
>I always thought "right wing" prouded themselves with that exact sentece
hahahahahaha hahahahahah
oh god you fucking trole, you got me good
daayyymn
>Stop believing in memes
not knowing what a meme is
oh and you missed out the cultural and racial genocide of the Whites
>>67920352
>Cuba is a sucessfull case of "socialism"
holy shit, go and read the wiki pages on cuba you fucking retard
>>67920444
nope, they fail because they start to allow divided loyalties
if I ever run an empire, my people will always be in charge and there will be strict punishments for suggesting we allow any outsiders our education or any power
>>67906529
..sooo.... Sanders is in agreement with the greatest man in history? Whats your point?
>>67920986
The term "success" is relative.Production always increases during wars,and it lasted to little and the only thing that accomplished was its destruction. Realisticly anarchists societies would have stagnated in the long run, and they increased in "productivity" was due to war and the initial morale boost.
>>67919930
The mafia doesn't give you the option of working for them, lead according to how its constituents decide, give you unalienable rights, or allow you to leave at any time. That analogy is pants-on-head retraded. Wow, how does it feel to be such a braindead queer?
>>67921645
>government gives unalienable rights
How does it feel to be a completely assfucked sheeple faggot? Have you met your daily cock-quota?
If the means of production are own by worlers,wouldnt society stagnate? How can new products appear,if it doesnt profit the person with the idea,or may hurt other workers? Do you realise that socialism doesnt take into account the risk factor of capitalists? Will the loses of a factory be on the shoulders of the worlers? Or the goverment would just force a monopoly to ensure no loses,in deterrimwnt of the general population?
How do you feel that your ideology has been proven totally wrong in Venezuela and Chile's Allende?
How does it feel that the only countries that are developing are die hard capitalistic like Botswana?
How does it feal to defend an ideology that has destroyed developed nations like Cuba into a Banana republic?
>>67909517
>Because it's a baseless shitpost considering human societies have been multicultural up until recently and civilization still exists. Did the roman empire collapse because of ethnically based conflicts? No, and it's intellectually dishonest to claim that it did. It collapsed from being invaded.
You're an idiot. I'll quote someone on Quora who make mt point for me:
>The Romans were extremely unwilling to accept new cultures into their society. While the Republic and later the Empire promulgated Roman Law in the annexed territories, this was only a means to ensure proper trade and taxation. To the extent that a region and its population could govern themselves according to the law, they were left alone.
There was a clear concept of Roman-ness that defined us and them, which supplanted the older practice of differentiating between Greeks and barbarians.
Basically, what mattered was how you were raised and how you lived your life, not necessarily where you were raised and by whom. You didn't have to be a Roman citizen to be considered Roman. As long as you spoke Latin or Greek, behaved according to the Greek or Roman way (which was one and the same) and practiced a proper religion, you'd be considered more or less a Roman.
Living any other way would make you a barbarian, even if you lived inside the Empire.
>>67909517
In the eyes of the Romans, the Gauls may be living and trading inside the borders, but are still as decisively unroman as their neighbors across the Rhine. Even older, richer regions, like Egypt, were held to the same esteem. The Greek colonies near the coast were considered pockets of civilization (like the new Latin colonies in the West) in the middle of an otherwise unroman land, who's only significance was its grain production.
Eventually, the privilege of citizenship lost what little value it had left to a Roman, because it was being diluted by foreigners discharged from the army as citizens, and the government was becoming more autocratic anyway.
Which is why it was so easy for Caracalla to declare in 212 AD, with one fell swoop, all free men in the Empire as citizens. Those who cared, the Latins and Greeks, didn't need citizenship to feel or prove they were Roman.
So, we can safely say that neither Julius Caesar nor any Roman, would support a multicultural or multiethnic empire."
https://www.quora.com/Was-Julius-Caesar-in-favor-of-multiculturalism
Using the Romans or any other ancient civilization as an example of good multiculturalism is fucking stupid.
>>67921963
That's not even a response. I get the feeling that you ran out of edgy slogans from your favorite AnCap blog and have nothing left to contribute short of weak ad hominem attacks. I hope you get assraped by giant, smelly nigger on your daily trip to the local Hot Topic, you numale fudgepacker.
>>67921349
>>Cuba is a sucessfull case of "socialism"
>holy shit, go and read the wiki pages on cuba you fucking retard
Don't cut my sentences on purpose. I said Cuba was a sucessful socialist economy IN SPITE OFF its circunstances. Cuban people didn't starve, they had a top notch health care system to even some Western world standards. All this in spite off being embargoed by virtually all neighboring nations, except venezuela iirc and the commie block, wich was poor as fuck.
>>67923634
You literally and unironically think government magically creates *unalienable rights*.
Your response speaks for itself, Sir Cockmongler ;)
>>67923876
>Don't cut my sentences on purpose
is that reserved for the leftwing kike media when talking about trump?
The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions (also known as "El Paredón").
Human Rights Watch has stated that the government "represses nearly all forms of political dissent" and that "Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law"
In 2003, the European Union (EU) accused the Cuban government of "continuing flagrant violation of human rights and fundamental freedoms".[129] The United States continues an embargo against Cuba "so long as it continues to refuse to move toward democratization and greater respect for human rights"
CUBA HAD THE SECOND-HIGHEST NUMBER OF IMPRISONED JOURNALISTS OF ANY NATION IN 2008 (CHINA HAD THE HIGHEST) ACCORDING TO VARIOUS SOURCES, INCLUDING THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS AND HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.
Cuban dissidents face arrest and imprisonment. In the 1990s, Human Rights Watch reported that Cuba's extensive prison system, one of the largest in Latin America, consists of 40 maximum-security prisons, 30 minimum-security prisons, and over 200 work camps.[136] According to Human Rights Watch, Cuba's prison population is confined in "substandard and unhealthy conditions, where prisoners face physical and sexual abuse."
At the end of 2012, tens of thousands of Cuban medical personnel worked abroad,[152] with as many as 30,000 doctors in Venezuela alone via the two countries' oil-for-doctors programme.[153]
The average monthly wage as of July 2013 is 466 Cuban pesos, which are worth about US$19
>>67923876
After the Cuban revolution and before the collapse of the Soviet Union, Cuba depended on Moscow for substantial aid and sheltered markets for its exports. The removal of these subsidies sent the Cuban economy into a rapid depression known in Cuba as the Special Period. Cuba took limited FREE MARKET-ORIENTED measures to alleviate severe shortages of food, consumer goods, and services.
Venezuela supplies Cuba with an estimated 110,000 barrels (17,000 m3) a day of oil in exchange for money and the services of some 44,000 Cubans, most of them medical personnel, in Venezuela.[180] Estimates place Venezuelan assistance at over 20% of the Cuban GDP for 2008–2010, similar to the aid flows from the Soviet Union in 1985–1988
In 2005 Cuba had exports of $2.4 billion, ranking 114 of 226 world countries, and imports of $6.9 billion, ranking 87 of 226 countries - EXPORTS??? Sounds a bit capitalist, doesn't it
On August 2, 2011, The New York Times reported Cuba as reaffirming their intent to legalize "buying and selling" of private property before the year's end. According to experts, the private sale of property could "transform Cuba more than any of the economic reforms announced by President Raúl Castro's government".[190] It will cut more than one million state jobs, including party bureaucrats who resist the changes.[191] The new economic reforms effectively created a new economic system, referred by some as the "New Cuban Economy". - capitalism?
Contacts between foreign visitors and ordinary Cubans were de facto illegal between 1992 and 1997
Cuba has tripled its market share of Caribbean tourism in the last decade - Capitalism?
the population began to decline in 2006, with a fertility rate of 1.43 children per woman.[213] - 2.11 is the sustainable fertility rate, so they are shrinking by about a quarter per generation
Indeed, this drop in fertility is among the largest in the Western Hemisphere,[214]
>>67923876
Post-revolution Cuba has been characterized by significant levels of emigration, which has led to a large and influential diaspora community. During the three decades after January 1959, more than one million Cubans of all social classes — constituting 10% of the total population — emigrated to the United States, a proportion that matches the extent of emigration to the U.S. from the Caribbean as a whole during that period.[223][224][225][226][227] Other common destinations include Spain, the United Kingdom, Canada, Mexico, and Sweden, among others. Those who left the country typically did so by sea, in small boats and fragile rafts. Between 30,000 and 80,000 Cubans are estimated to have died trying to flee Cuba - it's such a great place that 10% of the population left, even using rafts to escape
In 1986 a "Tribunal on Cuba" was held in Paris to present testimonies by former prisoners of Cuba's penal system to the international media. The gathering was sponsored by Resistance International and The Coalition of Committees for the Rights of Man in Cuba. The testimonies presented at the tribunal, before an international panel, alleged a pattern of torture in Cuba's prisons and "hard labor camps". These included beatings, biological experiments in diet restrictions, violent interrogations and extremely unsanitary conditions. The jury concurred with allegations of arbitrary arrests; sentencing by court martial with neither public audience nor defense; periods in hard labour camps without sufficient food, clothes and medical care; and the arrests of children over nine years old.[24]
>>67923876
Although Cuba has been politically connected to the Soviet Union since the United States broke off relations with Cuba shortly after the president Fidel Castro came to power in 1959, few considerable allegations regarding the political abuse of psychiatry in this country emerged before the late 1980s.[25]:74 Americas Watch and Amnesty International published reports alluding to cases of possible unwarranted hospitalization and ill-treatment of political prisoners.[25]:75 These reports concerned the Gustavo Machin hospital in Santiago de Cuba in the southeast of the country and the major mental hospital in Havana.[25]:75 In 1977, a report on alleged abuse of psychiatry in Cuba presenting cases of ill-treatment in mental hospitals going back to the 1970s came out in the United States.[25]:75 It presents grave allegations that prisoners end up in the forensic ward of mental hospitals in Santiago de Cuba and Havana where they undergo ill-treatment including electroconvulsive therapy without muscle relaxants or anaesthesia.[25]:75 The reported application of ECT in the forensic wards seems, at least in many of the cited cases, not to be an adequate clinical treatment for the diagnosed state of the prisoner—in some cases the prisoners seem not to have been diagnosed at all.[25]:75 Conditions in the forensic wards have been described in repulsive terms and apparently are in striking contrast to the other parts of the mental hospitals that are said to be well-kept and modern.
A 2009 report by Human Rights Watch concluded that "Raúl Castro has kept Cuba’s repressive machinery firmly in place...since being handed power by his brother Fidel Castro."[26] The report found that "[s]cores of political prisoners arrested under Fidel continue to languish in prison, and Raúl has used draconian laws and sham trials to incarcerate scores more who have dared to exercise their fundamental rights."
>>67923876
Freedom House classifies Cuba as being "Not Free",[27] and notes that "Cuba is the only country in the Americas that consistently makes Freedom House’s list of the Worst of the Worst: the World’s Most Repressive Societies for widespread abuses of political rights and civil liberties."[28]
A 1999 Human Rights Watch report notes that the Interior Ministry has principal responsibility for monitoring the Cuban population for signs of dissent.[29] In 1991 two new mechanisms for internal surveillance and control emerged. Communist Party leaders organized the Singular Systems of Vigilance and Protection (Sistema Unico de Vigilancia y Protección, SUVP). Rapid Action Brigades (Brigadas de Acción Rapida, also referred to as Rapid Response Brigades, or Brigadas de Respuesta Rápida) observe and control dissidents.[29] THE GOVERNMENT ALSO "MAINTAINS ACADEMIC AND LABOR FILES (EXPEDIENTES ESCOLARES Y LABORALES) FOR EACH CITIZEN, IN WHICH OFFICIALS RECORD ACTIONS OR STATEMENTS THAT MAY BEAR ON THE PERSON'S LOYALTY TO THE REVOLUTION. BEFORE ADVANCING TO A NEW SCHOOL OR POSITION, THE INDIVIDUAL'S RECORD MUST FIRST BE DEEMED ACCEPTABLE
CUBA'S RANKING WAS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PRESS FREEDOM INDEX 2008 COMPILED BY THE REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS (RWB).[4] CUBA WAS NAMED ONE OF THE TEN MOST CENSORED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD BY THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS.[33]
Media is operated under the supervision of the Communist Party's Department of Revolutionary Orientation, which "develops and coordinates propaganda strategies".[33]
>>67923876
The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights assess that: "It is evident that the exercise of the right to freedom of expression under this article of the Constitution is governed by two fundamental determinants: on the one hand, the preservation and strengthening of the communist State; on the other, the need to muzzle any criticism of the group in power."[34] Human rights group Amnesty International assert that the universal state ownership of the media means that freedom of expression is restricted. Thus the exercise of the right to freedom of expression is restricted by the lack of means of mass communication falling outside state control.[35] Human Rights Watch states: "Refusing to recognize human rights monitoring as a legitimate activity, the government denies legal status to local human rights groups. Individuals who belong to these groups face systematic harassment, with the government putting up obstacles to impede them from documenting human rights conditions. In addition, international human rights groups such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are barred from sending fact-finding missions to Cuba. It remains one of the few countries in the world to deny the International Committee of the Red Cross access to its prisons
Foreign journalists are systematically expelled from Cuba, e.g. notable journalists of New Left Gazeta Wyborcza, Anna Bikont and Seweryn Blumsztahn, were expelled in 2005.
>>67923876
Human Rights Watch states that "freedom of assembly is severely restricted in Cuba, and political dissidents are generally prohibited from meeting in large groups.[36] Amnesty states that "All human rights, civil and professional associations and unions that exist today in Cuba outside the officialdom of the state apparatus and mass organizations controlled by the government are barred from having legal status. This often puts at risk the individuals who belong to these associations of facing harassment, intimidation or criminal charges for activities which constitute the legitimate exercise of the fundamental freedoms of expression, association and assembly
In 2001 an attempt was made by Oswaldo Payá Sardiñas and others from the Christian Liberation Movement, operating as the Varela Project, to have a national plebiscite using provisions in the Constitution of Cuba which provided for citizen initiative. If accepted by the government and approved by public vote, the amendments would have established such things as freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom of press, as well as starting private businesses. The petition was refused by the National Assembly and in response a referendum was held in support of socialism being a permanent fixture of the constitution, for which the government claimed 99% voter approval
>>67923876
Human rights groups including Amnesty International have long been critical of what the Cuban authorities have termed "Acts of repudiation" (actos de repudio). These acts occur when large groups of citizens verbally abuse, intimidate and sometimes physically assault and throw stones and other objects at homes of Cubans considered to be counter-revolutionary. Human rights groups suspect that these acts are often carried out in collusion with the security forces and sometimes involve the Committees for the Defence of the Revolution or the Rapid Response Brigades. The level of violence of these acts have increased significantly since 2003
Prior to January 13, 2013, Cuban citizens could not leave or return to Cuba without first obtaining official permission, which was sometimes denied.[51] Unauthorized travel abroad had sometimes resulted in criminal prosecution. It was common, in those days, that certain citizens who were authorized travel (primarily medical personnel and other professionals deemed essential to the country) were not permitted to take their children with them overseas. In the event that Cuban doctors defect to the United States when they are sent to a "mission" out of Cuba to any foreign country, any children left behind would not be allowed to join their defector parent for a minimum of ten years, even if they had received a foreign visa, and regardless of their age
>>67923876
EVEN DISCUSSING ABOUT UNAUTHORIZED TRAVEL CARRIED A SIX-MONTH PRISON SENTENCE
On July 13, 1994, 72 Cubans attempted to leave the Island on a World War II era tugboat named the 13 de Marzo. In an attempt by the Cuban Navy to stop the tugboat, patrol boats were sent out to intercept the tug. Crewmen and survivors reported that the interception vessels rammed the tugboat and sprayed its passengers with high-pressure fire hoses, sweeping many overboard.
Education in Cuba is normally free at all levels and controlled by the Ministry for Education. In 1961 the government nationalized all private educational institutions and introduced a state-directed education system. The system has been criticized for political indoctrination and for monitoring the political opinions of the students. It has also been criticized for prohibiting any private alternatives to the state-directed education system and for limiting the power of parents to influence their children's education.
STRONG IDEOLOGICAL CONTENT IS PRESENT. The constitution states that educational and cultural policy is based on Marxism.[53] A FILE IS KEPT ON CHILDREN'S "REVOLUTIONARY INTEGRATION" AND IT ACCOMPANIES THE CHILD FOR LIFE. UNIVERSITY OPTIONS WILL DEPEND ON HOW WELL THE PERSON IS INTEGRATED TO MARXIST IDEOLOGY. THE CODE FOR CHILDREN, YOUTH AND FAMILY STATES THAT A PARENT WHO TEACHES IDEAS CONTRARY TO COMMUNISM CAN BE SENTENCED TO THREE YEARS IN PRISON.
>>67923876
Healthcare in Cuba is also free.
However, THERE IS NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY, OR A PATIENT'S INFORMED CONSENT, OR THE RIGHT TO PROTEST OR SUE A DOCTOR OR CLINIC FOR MALPRACTICE.[54][55] MOREOVER, THE PATIENT DOES NOT HAVE RIGHT TO REFUSE TREATMENT (for example, a Rastafarian cannot refuse an amputation on grounds that his religion forbids it.)[54][55] Many Cubans complain about politics in medical treatment and health care decision-making.[54]
After spending nine months in Cuban clinics, Katherine Hirschfeld asked in her paper "My increased awareness of Cuba’s criminalization of dissent raised a very provocative question: TO WHAT EXTENT IS THE FAVORABLE INTERNATIONAL IMAGE OF THE CUBAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM MAINTAINED BY THE STATE’S PRACTICE OF SUPPRESSING DISSENT AND COVERTLY INTIMIDATING OR IMPRISONING WOULD-BE CRITICS?"[54]
Family doctors are expected to keep records of patients "political integration".[55] Epidemiological surveillance has become juxtaposed with political surveillance.
Wow, what a utopia
>>67923876
>The average monthly wage as of July 2013 is 466 Cuban pesos, which are worth about US$19
jesus, 19 fucking dolleridoos?
that's success in your book is it?
>>67924701
Hooray government!
>>67905198
>>67923876
Cuba isn't socialist, it's state capitalist. Castro himself has admitted that his system has failed.
http://reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6874LC20100908
>>67923953
I never said governments create those rights out of thin air, you illiterate lard. They ensure that these rights are not infringed upon, and are non-negotiable. Could you stop being a nigger, for once?
>>67906785
>Slavery continues to have a socioeconomic and epigenetic impact on the African-Americans today.
>no other race had a problem getting back on thier feet
Topkek
Also
>Black American starts to rise in status prior to civil rights
>lefties Gib dem dat
>they turn back into niggers
Leftist policies keep black people down more than slavery ever has
>>67924274
>is that reserved for the leftwing kike media when talking about trump?
I don't care about this. Don't lump me with american "leftists".
>The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions (also known as "El Paredón").
Just like the american one. And mine. And british. And german. And virtually all of them.
>Humans right watch
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch
completely dropped.
>so long as it continues to refuse to move toward democratization and greater respect for human rights"
Exactly. As long as it does not align with us, i will accuse you of many things.
It's called propaganda, and it's a major thing in western world
>CUBA HAD THE SECOND-HIGHEST NUMBER OF IMPRISONED JOURNALISTS OF ANY NATION IN 2008 (CHINA HAD THE HIGHEST) ACCORDING TO VARIOUS SOURCES, INCLUDING THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS AND HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.
In 2008 Cuba was effectively alone in the world. Soviet Union no longer existed, and Cuba had no meaningfull trade partners. They were essential blockaded. The regime was not as strong as before, so represion was incresed
The rest is statistics in Cuba post 90s, wich is shit. I mentioned Cuba in the past.
>>67925169
You said governments give unalienable rights rights. *LITERALLY AND UNIRONICALLY*.
L M A O
M
A
O
>>67909517
Just admit that you think you are superior to others and know how they should live their life.
That is the primary difference between left and right. Your belief is inherently authoritarian.
Because history already proved that left wing politics don't work.
>>67925322
This so much.
>>67924831
>July 2013
that is, almost 20 years of effective blockade by virtually all the world, with only limited trade with some nations (mine, for example, venezuela...). Geez, i wonder why they have a shitty economy? Don't forget half of them are niggers, and they are a tiny island.
Why did you copy paste the wiki page? I didn't read all of it. Just post the link
>>67925299
You're arguing semantics because your stance is utter shit and have no other leg to stand on. XDDDD
BTFO
T
F
O
>>67925322
Shitposting aside this is what I don't get about lefties. I don't give a fuck what they think it's their right; they can vote for who they choose and speak whatever opinions they wish and they have my blessing. But why do my views get attacked with such rabid ferocity by people claiming they have the moral high ground, current year, I'm a dinosaur, etc? Shit is fucked up man I just wanna live and let live and have some faith in the American political and judiciary systems, as naive as that may be. Also, build wall.
>>67925169
That is why in my original post i saied Cuba was "socialist".
>>67925722
Never argue with a ancap. They will eventually grow out of it
>>67925722
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>>67921645
>>67921645
>>67921645
>>67921645
>give you unalienable rights
>give you unalienable rights
>give you unalienable rights
>give you unalienable rights
L M A O
M
A
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>>67906785
>no group of people is a problem
This is why leftists fail. Instead of looking at the actual problem, you just blame muh guns
>>67925633
>Geez, i wonder why they have a shitty economy?
KEK, so a system where property (in theory) should be non-existent depends on voluntary trade of property so that the economy isn't shit?
>>67925277
>Don't lump me with american "leftists".
calls himself leftypol
hmm
the rest of your post:
did you even bother reading all of what I posted? or did you just ignore large fucking chunks?
aww, it's so retarded it dismisses all the evidence with trickery
why don't you go and live in cuba then?
do you deny that people have converted TRUCKS into boats in order to escape that fucking hellhole?
>>67925633
>I didn't read all of it
ha, didn't think so
you didn't bother to read anything that blows you the fuck out, do you? otherwise you would not be able to remain a leftard
waaaa everything I don't like is wrong, a bloo bloo bloo
what do you think of the practice of allowing people to work overseas, but not allowing their children to go with them lest they defect? why would defection be a danger if cuba is so fucking great?
I know, I know, you aren't able to look at things rationally, you poor faggot
waaa it was shgit bcos blockade, or it was blockade bcos so shit?
>>67906166
>"gun policy having no measurable effect on murder rates"
mfw this is what gun niggers actually believe
>inb4 "the sky high murder rates are because niggers"
>>67926048
No system ever denies that trade is essential for a thriving economy, especially when you live in a small island.
>so a system where property (in theory) should be non-existent
Cuba wasn't communist
>>67926094
lefty/pol/ != /leftypol/
>did you even bother reading all of what I posted? or did you just ignore large fucking chunks?
The wiki pasta? no
>why don't you go and live in cuba then?
Because it's shit now. Many of my countrymen went there back in the 60's and 70's
>do you deny that people have converted TRUCKS into boats in order to escape that fucking hellhole?
No. Cuba was still a autoritarian country, and many have to flee. Also the fact that it's essentially blockaded by all it's neighboors (something you never adress) contributes to it being poor, especially since Soviet Union dismembred.
>why would defection be a danger if cuba is so fucking great?
Because now it's not
>>67905561
>Is all of tumblr necessarily bad?
yes
>>67927167
Trade requires the institution of property to work, because you trade property. Collective ownership removes trade, because everyone owns everything.
>Cuba wasn't communist
Where did I mention communism? I'm specifically talking about the collective ownership of the means of production.
>>67925925
KEK, Give =/= Create/Conceive
You're LITERALLY AND UNIRONICALLY an autistic faggot. Your ideology is a complete fucking joke that's not even respected by other anarchists. If you drank a bottle of ammonia right now, nothing of value will have been lost. Continue rotting in your Mom's basement so as to prevent most of the rest of humanity from being exposed to your edgy, homosexual drivel.
>>67906785
haha commie cuck
>>67927082
In Sweden I'm sure you noticed how the violent crimes were totally dependent on the new Browns.
White people are violent at the same rates pretty much everywhere.
>>67927459
YOU BELIEVE GOVERNMENTS GIVE RIGHTS L I T E R A R A L L Y
A N D
U N I R O N I C A L L Y
LMOOAOMAOMOAOAOMAOLAOMOAMLOAL
>>67905198
they're fun.
>>67905198
left wing policies are why i'm a 28 year old neet who browses 4chan all day. Liberals destroyed me before I even have a chance, now they call me pathetic and blame my position in life on my choices, and if I try to argue they point out that I'm a white male and probably deserved whatever I got anyway. An energetic young boy put on tranquilizers and ritalin and put in the "disabled learning" classes full of delinquents, because I wanted to learn faster than the teachers were going, and asking things like "but why did hitler want to kill the jews?" and "what made him a bad man?" labeled me a problem child.
Nevermind the tax break given out to certain hiring quotas making it impossible to find employment given my low education and lack of experience. I think it's time to try trump's way. If I'm lucky he'll bring back factory jobs and I'll be able to do that, or he'll kill affirmative action somehow. That would be nice.
>>67921253
>The USA already spends billions on Black public schools.
our public school system is shite m8
>>67905198
what do you even consider to be far right policies?
>>67905561
>Is all of tumblr necessarily bad?
absolutely
>>67913634
Not all blacks are niggers, but all niggers are black. Throwing the baby out with bathwater isn't necessarily a bad thing. Liberia, for example, worked out pretty well for the descendants of black slaves. If they'd kept their own segregation system in place and taken a more isolationist approach to dealing with foreign governments, you would see a very successful country.
>>67927710
Thank you for confirming my point that you're autistic. Never change, weeb faggot. People like you are useful for identifying the average intelligence of ancaps.
>>67927984
>left wing policies are why i'm a 28 year old neet who browses 4chan all day.
lel, get off your ass, you fat fuck
>>67928902
You're a literal cocksucking brainless sheep senpai. You believe governments actually give people rights - you're the success story of Alinsky made incarnate.
Why would I ever waste my time doing anything other than simply pointing out to anyone else who still has an iota of critical thinking skills remaining how delusional you types really are?
>>67921645
>>67921645
>>67921645
>>67921645
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