>tfw you realize this movie was a not so subtle communist propoganda
Why does communism not work, pol? What's so theoretically flawed about it?
>What's so theoretically flawed about it?
Doesn't account for biology/human nature
>>67874439
this
why would a communist sell expensive soap? Why work a bunch of jobs?
>>67874439
But, without a free market, you've less incentive to lie/steal money from people. A capitalist economy is based on advertisement, branding, manipulation and consumerism.
Unless by human nature you mean people are dumb, easily manipulated cunts looking out only for themselves.... I might have to agree with you.
>>67874268
It's not so subtle nazi propaganda actually. Robert Paulson = Horst Wessel.
>>67874268
Despite the meme magic posted by every uneducated failure whenever this is said, but, you guessed it: It hasn't been tried. because at the current level of technological development, there is insufficient resources/infrastructure to remove scarcity.
Now, I'll assume you're uneducated and move right to what you think is "Communism" (Soviet Union, Mao's China, etc.)
This state capitalism doesn't work because when you create bureaucratic hierarchical structures and have all the decisions made, politically, economically and socially by a few people, well of course shit's going to get fucked up. You don't need to ask why that doesn't work, it's basically a given.
>>67874904
>My special brand of communism has never been tried, but it'd work!
>>67874980
>oh look, another uneducated failure, who would've predicte....oh that's right, me.
>>67874660
Are you shitposting or you genuinely don't understand communism?
In any case, expensive soap actually makes sense for communism. Private companies are discouraged but something not run by a multimillion dollar company and not running solely on advertising might actually be encouraged. The government might integrate the whole buisness into it.
As for "Why work?", I don't even have to tell you.
>>67874781
With communism there would be no innovation, as communism is supposed to be an utopia. Why make anything new, if everything is already perfect?
>>67874980
However, on a more serious note: my "special brand of communism" wouldn't work. Yes I said it. Why?
Because I explained why in my original post, which if you were capable of reading, explains that
>we aren't developed enough for communism, the productive forces have not been produced and accumulated to allow for communism
>>67874268
I'll tell you a mundane anecdotal criticsm of socialism.
It conditions people to be altruistic. This mightn't be such a bad thing if it could be restricted in some way but human beings are naturally imbalanced and tend to slip into one direction of behaviour. Think of it as a spectrum where veering from the medium doesn't necessarily mean a person will become a saint or a murderer, their personalities will just settle somewhere in the respective directions.
So like I was saying being altruistic isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact most people would say it is an admirable quality but what can happen and is happening is that it creates people who are so altruistic, they are unable to take care of themselves. In a typical example that means they can't protect themselves. This has been a consequence of the 20th experiment with socialism and it has a considerable involvement in the plague of unassertive man-children we see today. Feminism has been another leg of this spider along with the proliferation of pornography and the explosion in distraction that the modern media industry has become.
In this Post: My Opinion
>>67874268
>theoretically
>>67874268
because people will always have wants and desires. that's why.
This isn't about communism. It's antimaterialism. It's casting aside societies set goals and making your own rules.
>>67875055
I disagree there. Culture may suffer and degrade slowly but sciences are always encouraged. Communism has never reached the utopia stage and so it's tough to exactly theorize what happens once it gets there. But I'd assume a "worker's paradise" would encourage more scientists and innovation. Just not as many poets and artists.
>>67874268
It's a shit film.
Does anyone have the very old screencap of the British guy from /fit/ who knew KUngfu but was going to jail and had Fight Club tattoos on his chest and was wondering if the other prisoners would respect him for it?
After that thread, that's how I view the fans of this movie now, they're gourmet level retards
>>67874904
>Calls me uneducated
>Proceeds to not discuss the ideology in itself
Keep it up, Straya. I try to get angry but you cunts are just too adorable.
>Fight Club
>Communism
Did you even read the fucking book? Tylers goals have more in common with Ted kaczynskis view of the world than it does any commies.
>>67875439
I gave you the basic overview that answers your question.
>>67875244
>>67875244
you literally didnt watch fight club
>>67875244
>>67875244
>>67875244
>>67874831
This, it's has some fascist elements, including modern society's negative effects on traditional masculinity.
Also criticism of consumerist culture doesn't necessarily imply communism.
>>67875244
This. It wasn't against capitalism, it was against consumerism that was used as a substitute for lost masculine values.
meant for op >>67875544
>>67875544
>Being a moviepleb
>>67875553
this. look at people like jack donovan or goups like the wolves of vinland and operation werewolf divisions, that's some real life fight club shit mixed with hell's angels and vikings.
>>67874268
the main problem with communism is people that are born physically ugly can't make up for it with money/power.
1. It didn't become the natural end step of Capitalism as expected but had to be forced through violent revolutions, hence why mostly poor countries were targeted and are still Communist.
2. Capitalism fixed itself through new ideas and theories, curing its own shortcomings such as damaging externalities, inheritance, boom and bust cycles, monopolies, low marginal utility, social division or low social benefits to name a few.
3. This together lead to Capitalism doing far better and far outproducing Communism in every way.
The reason there are still Communists today is because Socialists are extremely divided on the subject and disagree with the practices of the USSR and China.
They claim that it wasn't real Communism, which isn't far from the truth.
The truth however is that Socialism never lead to Communism as it was supposed to be for various reasons such as the economic calculation problem and tends to corrupt its temporary leaders.
Communists tend to point to the hunter-gatherers era to say that we are by nature Communists (Karl Marx's primitive Communism theory) but Social divising of labour is not the same as technical division of labour.
Applying marxist technical division of labour and cherrypicking ideas about homogeneity is holds up as much as the Nazi's idea of racism, Socialism is about industrial societies, there was no industrial society yet.
>>67875166
If, say, the Soviet Union was still "Lenin stronk" and not a Stalin failure, who knows where they'd reach. Something is to be said about the infrastructure development and mass production that was going on at that time and is now in China. China might very well be a case of communism that worked, if it surpasses the USA.
As for culture, I've never been a fan of Marxism. Assimilation, even if successful, is a horrendous idea. The human mind is not made to function like robots, we need an identity and a culture.
This wave of feminism and all the nignog bullshit is just a college kid's understanding of Marxism." Fight the oppressor", lies and manipulation. Women are not oppresed and Black Lives aren't more important than anybody else's.
>>67874268
In reality it offers ideals closer to a nationalist socialist system than anything else
>>67874268
>fight club
>communist propogranda
More like anarcho-survival-of-the-vicious durdenism. He wanted to go back to basic survival, no consumerism, no nothing. Had nothing to do with helping each other, he wanted to dissolve society at it's core. Closer to a libertarian than commie.
>>67875244
>>67875553
How is it not? You're telling me that the sort of anarchist ideology that they'd accomplish doesn't resemble a communist society more than an anarchist one? And "anarchy" is just a self regulated communist society. Work for your worth. It's the same thing.
>>67875743
Morally Communism is faulty as well:
There is no collective Society, society as a whole does not exist. Society is the interaction between individual people, without this individual interaction there is no society and only a state. So Socialists serve a non-entity, and thus this entity has to be created, which is the totalitarian state.
This totalitarian state is also formed because altruism inevitably leads to totalitarianism, altruism serves as the rationalisation required to create totalitarianism. It's not only justifying a state, it's also a justfication of working against your very own nature, it justifies serving without any form of rational thinking. That is why Socialist states slaughtered millions with no remorse, they detached them from individual responsibility of their actions. But there is no collective consciousness because there is only one counsciousness, the individual consciousness, you have to use your own mind to rationalize things, use your own reason.
Captailism is the only barrier between an individual society and full altruism to be passed, Capitalism keeps the government at bay. This is why Capitalism has worked so well to create freedom for its citizen, the freedom to pursue your own goals makes it hard for any government to take control but only to serve our best interest.
>>67875433
When normies got into nerd shit they found this and went nuts
There are far worse things than that /fit/ faggot trust me, think of it like 12 Monkeys or Total Recall
>>67874904
>muh scarcity
this is how you spot a retard
>>67875569
>>67875553
>>67875686
> this
Since when did /pol/ become leddit?
>>67874268
To me it feels more Evolian than Marxist.
>>67874781
>without a free market, you've less incentive to lie/steal money from people
You've never heard of corruption?
>>67875785
yeah, tribalism as opposed to socialism
Tyler set up a Mystery Cult, he was not the vanguard of the revololtion
>>67874268
First question you ask when studying any sort of social schema: who's the leader, and why.
For humans, usually the leader is 'the biggest and most unscrupulous asshole in the group', and the reason is because they stopped at nothing to out-dupe or out-muscle everyone else in the group who wanted to be the leader.
We are hard-wired to be rewarded with various feel-good hormones when we pull one over on someone else, regardless of whether it's of a benign or malign nature (anyone who's innovated anything for themselves, or who's gotten away with a crime, knows what this feels like). Millions of years of evolution are behind this. The communist ideal crumbles like the charred remains of a used candle wick the instant it comes into contact with human nature, and quickly turns into despotism/fascism.
>>67875433
>gourmet level retards
Why is Australia accused of shit posting? I think it might be an American grade school tactic of belittling the kid in the class who's a threat. I nEVER see this kind of original turn of phrase from Americans who always regurgitate movie smart ass comments but neve really come up with anything of their own. Australia always does this but it is accused of shit-posting (like anything said here has ANY merit).
>>67875977
There's ofcourse Nordic countries that Socialists love, but these countries are far from Socialist.
The majority of capital and businesses are in the hands of private people, they also have a market economy in many sectors of the country.
It's more of a command economy if you consider the nationalized oil industry, it's a lot like 60s America.
Even the president of Norway was annoyed at Bernie Sanders for saying they are a Socialist country, they're a social democracy which isn't Socialist but extremely pro-Capitalist with a mixed economy of Command/market, welfare is a Capitalist invention.
>>67876003
Good response.
Allow me to retort:
>ur a fkng fgt le me me''s
Well said. A communist government's main failing would be a leak in the system. The entire economy would haemorrhage. And since that's all to common, that's what I think is communism's main failure.
Capitalism and libertarianism isn't dependent on the government so even astounding amounts of corruption would not lead to a total collapse.
>>67874904
You can only remove scarcity by limiting freedom.
It's been forever since I've seen this movie. Wasn't the main guy just projecting himself as a badass to fight all the beta consumerist bullshit of society? and then something about blowing up banks in the end? sounds kinda gommie to me.
>>67875587
>not shitposting on /tv/
>>67874268
>subtle communist propaganda
>not a white male fascist revolt against the muddy "nothing" culture of modern society
They dressed in black uniforms and blew things up, for shit sake.
>>67876041
Here you go.>>67876258
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZwsKVL6JfM
>>67874268
Nigger like it's our fault you never read animal farm in school.
>>67876201
You need to learn some history, friend.
>In the Roman Empire, the first emperor Augustus provided the 'congiaria' or grain dole for citizens who could not afford to buy food every month.
But in a modern sense "invention" is a strong word in this case. I mean shitting your britches at socialist revolutions everywhere and throwing money at the poor or lose control isn't really an "invention" more of a bribe. Bribery has been around since before humans, even in the animal kingdom.
>>67876260
>You can only remove scarcity by limiting freedom.
Today? Certainly, I agree completely. But assuming that it will be like it is today forever is a poorly chosen assumption.
>>67875747
I get the impression you like to talk political philosophies and think Communism might have some good qualities. You sound like a typical new Uni entry who's talking like a grown up for the first time in your life but hasn't grasped or really come to terms with the Reality that everyone but for a very few people in History, are selfish and scared of being made to look foolish. The people I am referring to who aren't concerned by these fears are people like Jesus, Buddha, etc.
Cosmmunism and Socialism have, for whatever reason because it doesn't amtter NOW, have failed.
The rich have taken pretty much all the money and they are foccused now on taking what is left. Whoever of those blood suckers who come's out on top will progress intoa new Pharaoh while the rest of us, who're progressively and gradually less educated over the generations will have to make out as best we can.
Political ideoligies are finished and it's a free for all with the only rule being:
Don't Get Caught.
Fight Club was written by a gay guy who thinks all men are faggots deep down....so take it with a grain of salt.
>>67876482
>Today? Certainly, I agree completely. But assuming that it will be like it is today forever is a poorly chosen assumption.
However much manufacturing capability you have, humanity can expand to match it. The energy available in the solar system is finite. You're never going to get around these practicalities.
>>67876203
Various experiments with command economies in the USSR, China, and Somalia didn't fare so well.
Communism hasn't been implemented entirely, because the effects of a full command economy were terrible.
Central planning is real communism, Communism WAS tried, and it had an academic and intellectual backbone to it.
Communism requires everything to go exactly right. Sure, Somalia and the USSR aren't what people are and were advocating for, but the fact that the closest real-world analogues to a given ideological do horribly is telling us plenty.
An ideal form of government shouldn't be a saddle point equilibrium.
>>67875450
>>67875553
>>67875569
>>67875686
>>67875785
>>67876085
>>67876327
Alright, this is going to be a more ideological discussion. I view communism and anarchy or feudalism as a communist society without the formality and the official brand. It's more of a horseshoe than polar opposites.
Because, even in anarchy, there is always a more powerful member of society that functions as a government. And the entire function of that society is regulated by that member. Take Gandhi's India. In that state of anarchy, the entire government was one man or one movement.
The main difference I see between captalism/libertarianism and communism/anarchy, and this might sound stupid, is branding and advertising.
In communism/anarchy, your worth is the amount and quality of work you do.
In capitalism/libertarianism, your worth is the worth you can create for your brand in the free market.
I could probably explain it a little better. And I'm always ready to change my view if you polfags prove me wrong.
>>67876708
>ideal form
what's a saddle point equilibrium? Is it the fulcrum of society that keeps that society from tipping into one form of corruption or another because if it isn't, it should be.
>>67876564
You sorta made a good point but you started rambling too much. I don't care about the examples, this is more of an ideological discussion. And of course communism has some good points. The discussion is about if it's ever feasible.
>>67876859
Thoughts?
>>67876708
>Central planning is real communism
Dunno where you pulled that from. In the world I live in central planning is actually just central planning. Non state-capitalistic states have had various forms of central planning. That doesn't make them "communistic". Just Statist.
>>67877060
Why talk about ANYTHING if it doesn't have some bearing on Reality?
Fuck Academia and Fuck America
>>67875536
can't really blame him can ya? aussies shitpost so often and so proficiently that it's hard for non-aussies to notice when you're being sincere.
>>67877206
Dude, what are you even talking about? Every policy starts as an idea without a real world example. And this is a question of if utopia is ever feasible. NK's brainwashing and Stocklohm syndrome might as well be a utopia for them.
And if know for certain that if that way of life were in the majority, we'd be discussing why capitalism and "freedom" is a failed ideology.
>>67877073
Nirvana fallacy, I know that many Socialists and especially Anarchists have rejected these countries for practicing central-planning, in an ideal Socialist world central-planning and mass murders are not part of Communist experiments, but they have been part of it and they have proven to be horrible.
>>67874268
Rare
>>67877883
You're not even on the same wave length. You're calling something by a different name because you want to. Calling this planet Mars, doesn't make it Mars. Saying that central planning is communism, doesn't make it communism. Are both Mars and Earth planets? Yes. Are both Mars and Earth orbiting the sun? Yes. That doesn't mean they're the same thing.
Having a few oligarchs controlling the direction of capital flows and the population doesn't mean that it's Communism. It doesn't.
Authoritarian Statism =/= Communism. But believe whatever you want, we can believe in fairy tales too, nobody is stopping you.
so was tyler the narrator's subconscious way of saying "you are a slave to consumerism and it has to go"?
>>67874268
The movie doesn't gear towards totalitarianism communism like most people think of. It's geared towards anarcho communism which really just means tribes. It acts only on ego and testosterone no domestication whatsoever. It's actually really dumb.
By looking at countries like USSR or China we can clearly see that with rise of communist also created a single ruling class proleteriat/chinese ppl party, it doesnt work cause of human drive for power over others.
The core problem with both anarcho and marcist communism is that it gives revolutionaries, usually a load of lucky cucks who already hate each other, total control of an area, and then it expects them to hand over power to communes, creating anarchism,
It is impossible to find a man, who vested with total power, will surrender it. That is why true communism was always 30 years ago in the USSR.
>>67874268
>>67874268
What part of communism involves bare knuckle fights with yourself
that part seems fun. capitalism should steal that part
