Where the Irish and Italian ever considered nonwhite in America? I keep hearing the narrative that they later became white, but considering laws like the chinese exclusion act and immigration act of 1924, I don't understand why millions of Irish would be allowed to enter the US if they were considered nonwhite.
The irish were viewed as less than human, akin to how we view blacks or natives today.
The scottish had a bad reputation too but not as bad as the irish for some reason.
Basically we all just drank and fucked women, and people viewed this as uncouth, where as today it's completely normal.
>>67822913
How did you come to that conclusion?
>>67823138
Because I am scottish, I know history, and I'm not a dumb retarded american.
Scottish people are known for being lazy wife beaters / killers who drink too much. Same with the irish. Or have you forgotten your own past?
>>67824766
So you don't have anything to substantiate your opinion?
You had to pay a free slave.
You could give an irishman a potato and a beer for a day of labor.
>>67824766
You're also the leaf, therefore not allowed to post on this board. You know the rules.
>>67825070
This
>>67825060
Im serious. The irish were like niggers but actually had it bad in the 30s
>>67824766
Are you retarded? Scots basically financed our entire country and headed up most of the projects to build everything.
You failed to notice the fucking MCeverything here?
Go look up "forts in Canada". Jesus christ, I remember learning about this shit in grade three.
I've heard the largest lynching in this country happened against Italians not blacks. Not to mention, discrimination against white ethnic groups is a lot more recent than discrimination against blacks. Slavery ended during the days of Abraham Lincoln. Italians suffered discrimination during WWII. Japanese were even put in camps in this country...
>>67825193
>rye in my ID
God wants me here. You have been overruled.
>>67825374
One more thing, didn't black American soldiers go into Europe to kill during WWII?
>>67822718
Yes its true.
Millions immigrated because this country wasn't established to be a white only country
>>67825060
>>67825193
>>67825371
We were viewed as savages by the english and french, how is this a hard concept to grasp?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89BlFxuyqYQ
>>67825577
>Irish are not white
You know that's just a meme right?
>>67825374
Go read about the Bowery wars in your nation's transition to industrialization and was basically the word's sweatshop/cannery. The Italians and chinks and irish ect had fucking massive crazy streetfights all the time. Even the jews fought each other and other groups.
That's where phrases like "hatchet men" comes from. It literally refers to guys who used to go around hitting people with hatchets in bowery fights.
It's actually really interesting. I haven't read about it in dcades so I am not sure where to point you to online, but there's plenty of documentation on the subject so I am sure there's lots to find.
>>67825577
Minority detected
>>67825060
The Irish were hated worse than niggers. If you knew any history at all, you would know that. In the Caribean, an African could own an Irish slave, but an Irish slave could not own an African. The first blacks to land in Virginia were treated as indentured servants, not as slaves, because they were baptized Protestant. The first miscegenation laws were not based on race, but forbid Catholics from marrying Protestants. The Irish were used in the holds of ships, whereas Africans were used above deck, where it was less dangerous. An African slave could buy his freedom by buying 2-3 replacement Irish slaves for his master. You're a serious fucking idiot for not knowing this history.
>>67822718
As an Italian man, we are considered to be very white.
Potato-eating MICKS on the other hand, are not white in the least.
Italians are white
Irish are not
>>67825577
Bullshit. Plenty of groups were discriminated against, but it wasn't because they weren't considered white. It was because they were considered inferior or disloyal, in a country that was deeply anglo-centric.
It happened to the Irish, the Italians and the Germans.
>>67825886
I'm not grasping something that you just pulled out of your ass.
On one hand, a nation full of Scottish names commemorating those who built everything, on the other hand, your vague feelings.
I think I'll side with reality, thanks though. I'm sitting in my house in a neighborhood named "McKenzie Lake" right now.
>>67824766
Don't forget fucking sheep. Fellow Scot.
>>67826227
This. My family tried to pull the "Scotch-Irish" thing to downplay the Irish part.
>>67826227
Cry harder retard, the american asked, I told him. What do you think we did back in the day, sat around weaving baskets? Fuck you are retarded.
>>67822718
The Irish came here and were notorious drunks, but many worked hard. They made up a bulk of the Union forces in the Civil War, literally coming off the boat and getting enlisted. The Irish were actual contributors to America despite how much they got initially shat on.
The Italians were something else. Of the 3 million who came here half repatriated themselves back to Italy after earning the money they wanted. They didn't assimilate well initially, and often were used at scabs and strike breakers. I wouldn't even compare the two.
>>67825893
Is that what OP suggested? He's asking if there was a point in history where Irish and Italians weren't considered white. Which is true.
>>67825908
Cuckold detected
>>67826217
Yes that's basically what I said.
They were considered non white and inferior and were discriminated for it.
>>67826753
This is a more accurate portrayal, we were basically pirates.
>>67826227
This guy is delusional, he thinks of himself as some sort of saint lol.
>>67826025
>Italians are white
>Irish aren't
KEK
E
K
>>67826500
My scottish family were members of boston's upper middle class for centuries. I think you're grasping at straws senpai, particularly if you think a drinking song constitutes a persuasive historical argument.
>>67826500
>being this stupid
It's not my fault that you're a twit who doesn't know anything. The Irish were treated poorly, but nothing compared to how they were treated in the US, and the Scots were not treated poorly at all AS EVIDENCED BY THE NAME OF OUR FIRST PRIME MINISTER WHO WAS NAMED JOHN MACFUCKINGDONALD.
You complete and utter mongoloid. We seriously learned this stuff in the first few grades.
>>67822718
>Where the Irish and Italian ever considered nonwhite in America?
No of course not, this is just some edgy Reddit-tier meme started by that shitty Jim Goad book from like 2004 where he tries to argue that rednecks and meth addicts in the PNW are the true victims of racism
>>67827112
>>67827123
I am from the ross clan, you are basically peasants compared to my family. It was my family who killed english and settled most of north america. So yes you are dumb and retarded.
>>67825371
>>67827351
WE WUZ CLAN N SHIET
>>67825371
.
>>67827666
my wife is descended from canada's first prime minister, so I am royalty according to this retard...
>>67827123
We were drunken savages, nothing more, nothing less.
>>67825371
..
>>67827351
I'm not even Scottish, you babbling retard. I just happen to have a very basic knowledge of the world around me, which is more then you can say.
You have been completely bodied. You have nothing but your feelings, I've given concrete evidence that you are wrong by pointing out that Scots formed our fucking government. And now you're trying to retreat behind emotion-based rhetoric even further.
Fuck that, moron. Cite evidence for our nation systemically discriminating against scots.
>>67823138
Because he knows US history better then you and he's from fucking Canada.
/pol/ this is why we need eugenics
>>67825371
...
>>67827721
>>67827873
>dude I sucked a ross clan dudes dick, I'm noble and shit yo
Lol, I am amused.
>>67827988
I never said anything, I told the american the truth, we were pirates and killers.
>>67822718
Everyone did treat the irish like niggers for the longest time, even in America. This much is true.
Dunno about Italianos though.
>>67825371
....
>>67824766
>uses the phrase "dumb retarded"
>Canadian intellectual
The US is literally surrounded by imbeciles.
>>67822718
the Irish were violent drunks not typical white behavior
>>67825954
Do you have a good source on this? Google brings up mostly sites like slate and salon claiming that the irish were only ever indentured slaves, and I would like to read more. Thanks
>>67828192
You are descended from us.. we are your ancestors..
>>67825371
.....
>>67822718
>white
This is an American invention.
>>67822718
There was inter-European hate between different groups. As it became less clear, the idea of a "white identity" came up.
Ignatiev is fucked up as there was no "white identity" originally, it was a new idea to move from European groups to Europeans themselves. The Irish weren't adopted into the "white identity", they merged with the "British Identity" and "French Identity" and the rest and together became the "white identity".
>>67826772
Honest question: How common was that point of view really? Did the general pop. really consider the Irish niggers?
>>67825374
Most sources seem to claim there were only 5,000 victims of lynchings in America in the 80 years or so it existed, and 3/4ths of the victims were black. An example here.
https://www.umass.edu/complit/aclanet/USLynch.html
>>67828138
>tries to retreat even further
You mistook your feelings for facts and got completely and utterly ragdolled, and then had a break down and started desperately spamming maymays.
I accept your surrender. And seriously, go find a small child, and ask them to read their social studies primer to you.
>>67828650
You are getting really manic, I hear getting your head smashed in helps with that.
>>67828650
>I accept your surrender
That's like a borderline tip
>>67828458
Pretty common and yes.
We always need someone to hate here in america. Its our hate that makes us great.
>>67822718
The problem is that, besides the fact that Ignatiev is a dishonest bigot who openly advocates genocide, most of what you are looking for is between the after-the-fact big picture judgment (Irish and Polish and some other peasants effectively being slaves) and the at-the-time confused situation. Even blacks stsrted out as indentured and then came go become part of a normalized and legally recognized slavery. The argument against historocal white slaves depends on the question of escape, release and assimilation, but there is no controversy that there were nlacks who at the height of slavery owned slaves and whose property was respected by the larger community.
What all this conflict and dishonesty cones from is Ignatiev's tribe.
Thousands of years before racist pseudo-science, Semitic tribal warfare depended on totalitarian levels of population interaction control and ethnic cleansing with Hitlerian levels of completeness. Almost every Jew "scholar" who presumes to talk about European racism comes from that and imposes it onto highly contradictory evidence. There was never a time when the most racist whites behaved like moderate Jews.
>>67829510
Are you familiar with the work of Kevin MacDonald?
>>67829049
>Its our hate that makes us great
MAGA
>It was not part of their blood,
>It came to them very late,
>With long arrears to make good,
>When the Saxon began to hate.
>They were not easily moved,
>They were icy -- willing to wait
>Till every count should be proved,
>Ere the Saxon began to hate.
>Their voices were even and low.
>Their eyes were level and straight.
>There was neither sign nor show
>When the Saxon began to hate.
>It was not preached to the crowd.
>It was not taught by the state.
>No man spoke it aloud
>When the Saxon began to hate.
>It was not suddently bred.
>It will not swiftly abate.
>Through the chilled years ahead,
>When Time shall count from the date
>That the Saxon began to hate.
