Bernie Sanders is not a socialist. He's a New Dealer.
>>67752067
Hey dawg? That's the same thing.
>>67752125
No. It's not.
>>67752722
Damn. You got him. I'm redpilled now.
Bernie Sanders was a poor unemployable man for several decades of his life and only found his way into congress in order to try and push a globalist socialist agenda
>>67752067
Giving socialism a fancy name doesn't change the fact that it's still socialism.
>>67752722
Trump stats:
Born into money
No political science education, can't even do basic math http://www.investors.com/politics/capital-hill/billionaire-donald-trump-has-a-big-problem-with-basic-math/
Made several poor financial decisions throughout his career with many failed businesses
Uses emotion instead of logic
Preys on low info voters
>>67753540
>flag
>inb4 aussie flag
>>67753694
hey you missed a >flag
>>67753227
>yfw you live in America and every other country is obsessed with your Presidential race
>>67753540
>Made several poor financial decisions throughout his career with many failed businesses
HOLY SHIT THIS MEME AGAIN.
4, FUCKING 4 OF HIS BUSINESSES FAILED
While hundreds were a success, and in those 4 he COULD not declare a bankruptcy BUT he would be an idiot if he didn't and he barely lost anything BEFORE everything went to shit, that was a brilliant move.
>No political science education, can't even do basic math
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Early_life
Educate yourself you fucking leaf, he got a bachelor's degree in economics
>Bernie Sanders
Surely you meant "Bernach Sandberg"
>New Dealer
Surely you meant "Jew Dealer"
bernie should drop out and endorse trump
Just boomers being boomers. Things will change when we're in charge after they're done screwing us with their shlomo boyfriends in the media
>>67753540
Stop being a retard, leaf bro.
The guy is a fucking billionaire, the last thing you should talk about is how many times he failed as a fucking businessman
>>67753982
No we just enjoy watching comedy.
itt: we say communism in eufemistic ways
>>67754074
I hope he does well and shit shows surround the other two. People saying none of his supporters could possibly work and shit. So boring and retarded. Literally the only guy with a surplus. If it's true, it becomes a meme only in the opposite
>>67752067
Why are you wasting your time trying to appeal to people who are opposed ideologically and morally to Sanders, you should be trying win minoritys and Clinton voters, Clinton is your direct competition right now.
>>67754117
He'll just explode the debt and nobody gives a shit. Without daddy's small loans and inheritances, who knows what he would've done. I don't really give a shit about rich people or their fiat money and corporations. Fuckers the lot of them
>>67754164
He stands up to all sorts of communist people and ideas. Nobody else does. I guess everybody else is hitler. Zionism? Let's talk about that one. People are stupid
>New Deal
>Good
>>67753991
Literally anyone can do it and if you don't you are actually legit retarded if you have no other option.
Lefties seem to forget if they had to pay the bull prep fees and bernie' donation in the same two weeks, they'd be filing the same. Yet somehow trump would be the one to do so yet still have something to show for it...
>>67754193
I don't believe Sanders is more capable than trump but compared to hillary he's a brilliant politician.
>>67753991
4 failed businesses is way above average, you want someone with that track record in charge of a country?
Economics is not political science, it's no wonder his policies are practically non-existent. He must have forgotten a lot in those 48 years because he's been dropping the ball on his math a lot recently.
>>67753239
You're free to call him a socialist if you're willing to be imprecise and inaccurate. He does call himself a "democratic socialist" after all, so he has nobody to blame but himself.
>>67752067
Bernie Sanders:
> Lived on welfare for 30 years
> Never owned or managed a business
> Never had a private sector job
> Currently worth $300k.
Donald Trump:
> Was given some money from his father.
> Invested the money
> Started new businesses
> 4 of them failed and he learned many lessons about risk, management, negotiation and economics
> Overall has grown his wealth significantly
> Currently worth hundreds of millions of dollars on the lowest estimates.
Bernie Sanders wants all Americans to have the same opportunities as he did, and to be just as successful as he is.
So does Donald Trump.
>>67754585
>Poor man matures into well off individual whose career was about helping those in need.
>Man born into richness keeps getting rich.
Oh wow impressive
>>67752067
no deal! trump is the guy who knows the art of the deal
>>67752067
Trump has done more for poor people then Bernie ever will.
The amount of money Trump donates to charities is incredible. All the revenue of his books go to charities.
>>67754580
Democracy and socialism is plain socialism the moment you control democracy through education.
>>67754585
Trump, like Henry Ford, is a white male billionaire, the type that keeps society running. Billionaires like George Soros, who got their money through currency manipulation, don´t produce anything of value.
>>67753991
>HOLY SHIT THIS MEME AGAIN.
>4, FUCKING 4 OF HIS BUSINESSES FAILED
>While hundreds were a success, and in those 4 he COULD not declare a bankruptcy BUT he would be an idiot if he didn't and he barely lost anything BEFORE everything went to shit, that was a brilliant move.
If Trump had invested in mutual funds and done NOTHING for his entire life he would be several billion dollars richer than he is now. He is not a savvy investor, and he's not a great businessman.
>>67754780
> Poor man wants everyone to be as poor as him. Enters career to help the needy stay dependent on welfare.
> Rich Man wants everyone to be as rich and successful as him. Enters career to help the needy achieve their own success.
Impressive indeed.
>>67752067
He is exactly the ugly old version of Obama.
You just had 8 years of social democracy but you didn't even notice it FUCKING C UCK
>>67755201
Obama was much too conservative for my taste.
>>67755533
Not understanding neo-cons kept fucking him in both chambers
That's why Trump is a great choice even for a dem.
>>67755533
When aren't they too conservative for your taste?
Election after election you put your faith in some new candidate promising gibmedats, but it's never enough for their voters, once their socialist and anti-market policies fail and they condemn even more people to poverty, then all the voters realize is that with all this new poor people you need even more handouts.
>>67752067
He's a Jew Dealer.
>>67754994
Again another shitty meme
This "research" saying that if he invested those "40mil" he "got" from his father he would have "X" times more now
They say that if he invested what he "got" after his father he would be worth more than he is now
They forget that he DID NOT inherit liquid money but his WEALTH and thats a huge difference, he took over a company and ran it.
You can't just sell the company for it's worth in wealth retard, if it was so easy he would have done it long time ago.
>>67755071
How exactly is tax cuts for the rich giving the everyone the opportunity to become as rich as him?
Have you not been following the distribution of wealth over the past 50 years?
>>67752067
Calling it something different doesn't work. Racists for example now finally have picked a new color, white and thought no one can touch them after that... kek they still get called out as the racists they are.
Same with Bernie you can call it what ever you want but as long as his actions actually mimic socialism.. he will be a socialist to people with half a brain.
Just the same as the "cant be racist against white people" crowd that are factual racists.
>>67756341
You can't liquidate? The great businessman Donald couldn't pull that off? Jesus.
>>67756760
>Why doesnt Stephpen Hawking just create a black hole so he can study it up close??
Fucking idiot.
>>67754994
>pls rich billionaires hoard your money for decades instead of using it in the america economy!!!
you soo dumb
>>67757145
I don't follow.
>>67757436
You're assuming that liquidation (a complex financing process) on a business which I doubt you have any information on, could liquidate in any reasonably capacity and asserting that Trump isn't a good businessman because of said ignorance.
>>67757580
It's entirely besides the point. The indexes far outperformed his own business ventures.
>>67757324
>investing in the indexes
>hoarding money
Pick one.
>>67753540
>leaf
>unironically acting like a redditor
Every time.
>>67758048
Pardon me?
>"He could have just liquidated"
is a bullshit response founded on complete fucking ignorance on finance and business.
It is not besides the point because it undermines your belief that Trump could have invested FIXED ASSETS into stock and been even richer than current.
>>67758262
I'll call them reddit and point out their flag instead of countering with real arguments!
Read the sticky newfag.
>>67752722
d u b s
c o n f
i r m
>>67755201
we've had social democracy since before ww2 fgt
>>67758783
That doesn't mean it works
>>67755201
>didn't notice
Oh you mean besides the constant treason and subversion of our laws? Yeah must have missed it somewhere in all those weekly outcries about our president breaking our laws and not being held accountable because accountability is racist.
>>67752067
Same thing.
>>67752125
First post best post
>>67754973
he pays people to put his name on buildings
its his name that has value not the person wich by the way is a giant ass hole
>>67759185
BR BR BR BR BR BR BR
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
>>67758410
>anybody on /pol/ reading the sticky
>"newfag"
Yep, you're redditcuck.
>>67758334
He absolutely could have cashed out his share of the company. But again, it's besides the point.
>>67758410
>Read the sticky
Top
Fucking
Lel
>>67753540
>low info voters
The fuck does that even mean? What has your info done for you other than make you more biased?
>>67752067
Let me give you a relevant quote
"What difference at this point does it make?"
>>67759423
Red herring.
You can't give a computer to an index and watch it's value grow. The article doesnt talk about his shares in the company. It talks about his sum inheritance.
I know this is your first time being forced to differentiate assets, but the article you defend is bullshit because it is premised on the fact that the value of his FIXED ASSETS could have been indexed to make a profit.
It's not a real argument and everyone with an emphasis in business can see this shit. Obviously a reddit bern-cuck like yourself wouldn't.
>>67759674
People who have low amount of information on the candidates but still vote aka the blacks who ironically are voting for Clinton and tanking Bernie's campaign.
>>67759886
Well look at reddit, they are voting for the same thing (sanders has spent his life being 100% part of the system) then turns around and acts like he is going to make america a socialist utopia.
Hes a Social Democrat. He wants to nationalize healthcare and education like in more advanced countries but not the whole economy.
>>67760171
Yeah they are low education. Blacks are even lower. In fact if you been paying attention, reddit has been blaming the blacks for Sanders losing.
>>67759839
Jesus fucking Christ. Trump's business ventures have performed modestly at best, relatively. If he had THEORETICALLY cashed out his 1/5 share and taken his $40 million CASH inheritance - invested it in the indexes, then SAT ON HIS FUCKING ASS DOING NOTHING for 30 years he would be JUST AS RICH.
For example, Warren Buffet was worth $40 million in '74. He's worth $70 billion now.
Trump didn't build an empire. He was handed the keys to the kingdom and he managed not to fuck up too much or too often and he's seen MODEST yields as a result. Nothing special. At all.
>>67752067
He's a social democrat, which is just the first rung on the Marxist ladder. Never trust a commie.
>>67760657
Id trust Uncle Joe with my life.
Sanders was the only hope!
>>67760547
Yes, because hoarding untold sums of money rather than investing it back into the economy does wonders for everyone, right?
We get it, he's not the greatest businessman ever. Would you at least give him credit for taking what he inherited, turning into a lot more, and taking his name brand to new heights?
>>67760547
I see you're changing your argument. That's fine.
>If he had THEORETICALLY cashed out his 1/5 share and taken his $40 million CASH inheritance - invested it in the indexes, then SAT ON HIS FUCKING ASS DOING NOTHING for 30 years he would be JUST AS RICH.
Theoretically, I could use the same fucking logic on you.
You are a failure. If only you invested $1 into the lottery with these winning numbers, you would have been dandy.
Hindsight is 20-20 buddy boy.
Don't give me this bullshit about the S & P being low risk either.
>>67761217
Investing is not hoarding.
>>67761242
You lost me.
>>67761419
Capital gains benefit no one but those who are already fucking rich.
>>67761565
Assuming Trump has 40 million in cash, you and the article assumes that it knew where the S&P was headed.
You are using hindsight bias to judge Trump's behavior.
This is not an argument based in logic.
I cannot call you a failure because you didn't win the lottery last week because I would be using hindsight bias to judge your actions resulting in an uneven, BIASED observational field.
>>67761886
>Investing in capital goods
>bad
Are you retarded?
>>67761950
Nobody's using hindsight bias, you complete idiot. We're comparing the performance of low-risk investments to Trump's business ventures. The result of the comparison is that Trump is a shockingly mediocre businessman, getting returns comparable to fucking mutual funds. Foresight or hindsight are completely irrelevant.
>>67762080
>Capital gains
>capital goods
Are you retarded? Do you think they are the same thing?
>>67762499
>We're comparing the performance of low-risk investments to Trump's business ventures
Remember when I fucking said not to mention S&P as low risk?? The events that ensued between the 1980 and now create the volatility of your idealized "low risk" investment strategy. The dotcom boom and bust was not something one could exactly predict. The restriction on oil was not something that could have been forseen in a passive investor. The 08 crash.
Tell you what. Go invest in some index funds yourself instead if donating your food allowance to a jew in hopes that your gamble will present some kind of ROI.
>Foresight or hindsight are completely irrelevant.
This is why you bern-cucks need other people to give you money. You can't even apply basic logic, how are you going to make any real money. Foresight and hindsight are the cornerstones of investment.
New dealer?
LOL more like a no dealer hahaha hillary has b him tfo
>>67752125
>American education
American retards always using socialism as a buzzword for anything they don't like.
>>67752067
The New Deal REQUIRED PEOPLE TO WORK in order to receive monetary compensation.
Try Again.
>>67762502
Capital gains are profits made from capital investments you autist. Please stop posting in this thread
>>67763356
Read a little harder faggot.
You said capital goods.
Capital goods and capital gains are different things retard.
>>67763480
CAPITAL GAINS ARE PROFITS MADE FROM INVESTING IN CAPITAL GOODS
Neo-/pol/, ladies and gentlemen
>>67763592
Oh so you had no idea what
>>67761886
was talking about.
He was talking SPECIFICALLY about investment.
Sorry I assumed that you were following the conversation and not being a complete retard.
>>67763705
>>67763592
Cash investments that Trump COULD
have made in index funds to be precise.
>>67763705
I'm fully aware of what he's talking about. Capital good investment benefits the economy and any thought otherwise is borderline autism.
>>67763065
>Foresight and hindsight are the cornerstones of investment.
Ok. But you said that I'm using hindsight bias. I was addressing that.
I wasn't saying that foresight and hindsight are irrelevant in regards to investing.
You're all over the place man. I don't know where you're going with this. Trump couldn't beat the indexes. He's a demonstrably mediocre businessman.
If you have any evidence to the contrary, speak up.
>>67763900
>Capital good investment benefits the economy and any thought otherwise is borderline autism.
The only autist here is you and your inability to differentiate between what was meant by capital investments and what you THINK the conversation was about.
Yes, capital investment in capital goods CAN help the economy.
No, that was not the topic.
Go back a reread the conversation you piece of trash.
>>67764151
>Yes, capital investment in capital goods CAN help the economy.
Dear God. You're out of your depth. This is getting embarrassing.
>>67764151
>Not the topic
>Arguing about how capital gains (his definition of "hoarding"), only benefits the rich.
Please stop posting in this thread
>>67764103
>But you said that I'm using hindsight bias.
You certainly are.
You are trying to say that you KNEW the way the S&P would turn out from 1980 to 2016 back in 1980 and accusing Trump for not jumping on the bandwagon because he didn't have that future knowledge that NO ONE knew back them.
It's not a responsible argument.
>Trump couldn't beat the indexes.
See those dips in the graph I provided? Do you think anyone was saying "Trump should have invested in the S&P" No, they were certainly not. You don't know where the stocks are going to be 10 minutes from now let alone 30 years.
>>67752067
DUDE
>>67764343
The point is that we are not talking about capital goods.
Index funds =/= capital goods.
Trump's 40 million possible investment would not have been an investment into capital goods in any direct observable manner.
But ill play your game. Lets say Trump dropped 40 million and that 40 million was actually invested into direct capital goods instead of being hot potatoed around the market, resulting in businesses acquiring capital goods such as fixed assets.
How are you going to measure this?
How are you going to tell me that his investment was more efficient to the economy than him running his own business?
You CAN'T.
>>67764912
OVENS
>>67764681
>You are trying to say that you KNEW the way the S&P would turn out from 1980 to 2016 back in 1980 and accusing Trump for not jumping on the bandwagon because he didn't have that future knowledge that NO ONE knew back them.
I'll only explain this one more time. I'm losing my patience.
I'm not saying that he should have invested in index funds. I'm saying that his business ventures performed comparably to said funds - a testament to his mediocrity. His wealth has grown at a rather unremarkable rate.
The illustration of this point being that if he had (THEORETICALLY) just invested in low-risk mutual funds and DONE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR 30 YEARS he would have the same amount of money (most likely much more) than he does now. Which is ironic, because he markets himself as some kind of genius businessman - touting his business prowess as qualification for presidency.
>>67765149
>Index funds =/= capital goods.
No shit, really? Mutual funds still end up financing production of capital goods.
I'm responding to this statement:
>Capital gains benefit no one but those who are already fucking rich.
Which is completely moronic.
Also I'm not arguing that an investment is more beneficial than financing your own business. (it's basically the same thing)
>>67765749
>I'm not saying that he should have invested in index funds. I'm saying that his business ventures performed comparably to said funds - a testament to his mediocrity. His wealth has grown at a rather unremarkable rate.
Your statement is akin to saying his wealth accumulation is mediocre because someone last week won 100 million in the lottery. It just isn't a good comparison.
Yeah, maybe he isn't the king businessperson. He hasn't made the most money, I can admit to that. But he's done more for the economy than all of the other candidates combined. That, I can assure you.
>>67765749
mutual funds don't necessarily generate as much actual economic productivity as a business. there is a thing called overinvestment.
2. the stock market exploded in value, doubling in just 7 years. this is NOT a good thing. in realistic terms he outperformed the market
3. assets are more stable than mutual funds
4. you're dumb.
>>67766047
No dumbass he's saying Trump's wealth is inherited and he lacks any skills.
He could have sat on his ass and indexes his inheritance and he would be just as rich. So all his work and effort earned him literally nothing.
>>67765880
>Capital gains benefit no one but those who are already fucking rich.
You STILL don't get what is meant here because you probably just jumped into the middle of the fucking conversation.
I even tried giving you a hint in my last comment. Went right over your head. "Didn't" expect that.
That that statement alludes to is the fact that Trump has created more value to the American people, the economy, the world economy than a fucking passive investment.
If Trump simply allowed for his wealth to grow on its own in a passive investment, the opportunity cost (look it up) would be staggering to the public.
>>67766246
Ill use the same argument on you.
You should have known that Apple stock was going to spike in the mid 2000s.
Since you didn't invest and am not a multi-millionaire, you are retarded and lack any skill.
>>67766343
No it wouldn't you're talking out of your ass & clearly don't understand passive investing.
He's giving his money to companies that put it to just as good if not better news than he did. Hence his shitty returns.
>>67766463
I do invest actually... I manage money for a living. I'm actually pretty wealthy for my age.
Apple is one hot company which is hard to predict. Stock index returns over the long term are quite easy to predict.
>>67766477
There's this idea among socialists that entrepreneurship just grows on trees...
Why doesn't every singe businessperson just invest in passive investing then retard?
You need skill to run a business.
With no businesses there is no index funds.
>>67766637
Trump doesn't have skills retard. If he did his labour would have earned him more than passive investing.
Trump is a really shitty entrepreneur who is only rich because of daddy's money. He would have been just as rich if he spent all his time playing rather than working so his lifetime's work is worth $0.
Fyi GDP growth is higher under Democrats than Republicans and Liberals than Conservatives for the entire history of both Canada and the US
>>67754568
The average for someone who has created over 200+ businesses? What average are we talking about?
>>67766343
>opportunity cost (look it up)
Yeah, I took High School econ too!
Again, I'm fully aware of the context and there is no justifying such a generalized statement. At this point your putting words in his mouth
>>67763140
no we just use the word socialism for policies that edge closer towards socialism.
Have you seen how dumb fat and unhealthy the average American is? I'm not paying for ANY of their shit, nigger.
>>67752722
I hear people say this but he's been in Congress for 30+ years advocating for the exact same things he speaks on today. He lives in a modest 300k dollar home. He literally represents the working middle class.
Give me proof he doesn't have a job, and lives off of welfare. Because as far as I'm concerned, that carries about as much weight as anything political Donald Trump discusses. It's essentially like him calling that guy ISIS or saying Ted Cruz is born in Canada. Just sensational comments to stir up his own voting demographic and falsify information against them to demean them.
>>67753982
Probably because there's a good chance a proto-fascist gets his finger on the button.
>>67766916
>At this point your putting words in his mouth
I love the sweet sweet smell of damage control.
I'm glad you see that you jumped the gun on this one.
>>67752067
You can call it what you want for your propaganda but as long as he behaves like a socialist he is socialist.
>>67753991
He had SEVEN failed business ventures and PERSONALLY BANKRUPT FOUR TIMES.
Trump Steaks
Trump Airlines
Trump Vodka
Trump Mortgage
Trump Shuttle
Trump Magazine
GoTrump Travel Agency
Every single one failed miserably. He has bankrupt himself 4 times. He is NOT a business man. He's a MARKETER. He knows how to present a false image and sell people false hope.
Having 7 failed business ventures is pretty fucking pathetic, and the man never built anything up. He received a million dollars from his father. And sure, that may not be a lot in Real Estate but building a Real Estate company from 1 million instead of 0 is a lot fucking easier.
>bachelors degree in economics
WELL THATS SURE HELPED HIM HAVE 7 FAILED BUSINESSES AND 4 BANKRUPTCIES. If he is so financially stable why does he feel the need to go around suing EVERY fucking person he can to get money? Oh, because he CAN'T MAKE MONEY HIMSELF.
>>67752067
>the economic conditions of 2016 America are comparable to those of the 30s.
No it doesn't work like that. You can't just apply the same policy to completely different situations. Resource availability, military relations, financial institutions, global interdependence and demographics are completely different now. You can;t be a New Dealer now, that's just incoherent.
Why are economists the absolute biggest joke of a profession. They have literally one job, explain and predict the economy, and every single person who predicted the Wall Street crisis was deemed 'not a real economist' because they don't follow their retarded make believe models. Not a single 'real economist' can explain how the American economy works or predict what will happen.
What the fuck is the value or purpose of their profession? They accomplish fucking nothing, ever, and yet have the gall to look down on people who haven't learned their complex theories and models WHICH DON'T EVEN MAP ONTO REALITY.
>>67767273
>GoTrump Travel Agency
Literally a skin for Travelocity. You want to call that a bankruptcy.
That can be done in a few hours.
>>67758926
Well trickle down economics certainly aren't working. The middle class is disappearing, corporations and rich folk are storing their money in off shore bank accounts to completely avoid federal taxation.
Also, Bernie Sanders tax plan actually LOWERS the tax rate fairly significantly for those who make 300-400k dollars a year being that it is a higher portion of the populace. The man is doing a little give and take, you gotta give him that.
>>67759047
>we know memes
epic fail dudey xd :^)
>>67767554
There is no trickle down theory, it is not a thing. Learn economics and stop using buzz words that have no meaning.
>>67752722
Why are none of those things true though
>>67763140
The average American thinks Socialism is Facism or Communism due to the stigma created back during the Cold War. The Red Scare has royally fucked this nation on anything politically aside from being a Plutocracy. Corporations run this country and if you think otherwise you're god damn dense.
>>67752125
FPBP
>>67767378
He spent upwards of 80 billion dollars on it. If it's a "reskin" of Travelocity then that just further fucking proves my point you retard.
>>67767554
>Well trickle down economics certainly aren't working
Doesn't exist except as a moronic leftist strawman fag.
Thomas Sowell issued a challenge with a reward to anyone who could present him with any serious economics journal that describes "trickle down economics" some 20 odd years ago.
The challenge still stands because it doesn't exist.
>>67767273
>Trump Airlines
>Trump Shuttle
These two are the same. Are you even trying?
Went down because of the Iraqi war with the embargo on fuel exports into america combined with the temporary northeastern recession as many MANY other airlines did.
>>67767644
Your beloved GOP is the one that created said buzzword and defends trickle-down economics on every fucking chance they get. If it doesn't exist, once again, FURTHER proves my point. The shit doesn't exist because IT DOESN'T WORK. So why are the GOP and conservatives pushing for it so fucking hard?
>>67767784
Who would have thought Bernie supporters don't know anything about economics and just shout buzz words?
Based Sowell.
>>67752067
No one goes hungry in America today faggot. People under the poverty line are upper middle class in Mexico. Everyone owns a car, has central AC, and an iphone.
>>67767761
You can't be this stupid.
That number, the 80 billion, is the size of the ENTIRE online travel industry MARKET.
Trump DID NOT spend 40 times his net worth on a website skin.
>>67767825
>Your beloved GOP
I'm Australian, you dumb cunt.
>the one that created said buzzword and defends trickle-down economics on every fucking chance they get.
I can defend Santa, he still doesn't exist.
>If it doesn't exist, once again, FURTHER proves my point
How?
>The shit doesn't exist because IT DOESN'T WORK. So why are the GOP and conservatives pushing for it so fucking hard?
Now you're just being asinine. No one mentions it or pushes it, because it isn't a thing.
All in all you put no arguments forward and only a bunch of assertions.
>>67767705
>corporations run the nation
Let's say you have a guy who will give out free liquor to anyone who ask for free. Every alcoholic in the area constantly goes to him for this free liquor and the area starts to have a massive problem with drunks ruining it which never existed before because the drunks never had the ability to get their hands on this amount of liquor before.
Is it
A the drunks fault
Or
B the guy giving out free liquor.
We're seeing what has been predicted and warned against by free market supporters since Adam Smith nearly 300 years ago as one of the most dangerous things in letting government choose winners and losers in the market.
And I wonder who's fault it is that the government has this ability to pick winners and losers. It certainly couldn't have been the progressive movement of the early 1900s nope no way it's those damn capitalist that have opposed it for nearly 300 years
>>67768179
When you have corporations paying Lobbyists to go "fund" politicians in order to pass legislature which in turn benefits their corporations, you have a nation run by corporations. It's not that fucking hard to grasp buddy.
>>67768296
And you want to fix the problem with a bigger government that has more power to abuse.
>>67768062
If it doesn't exist then why is it discussed? The reason it doesn't "exist" is because everyone likes to pretend Reagan didn't push for that shit relentlessly.
The idea was the giving the wealthy higher tax cuts would allow them to give back more to the economy and thus transfer wealth through down to the middle class. It hasn't worked and it never will, which is why it doesn't fucking exist.
>>67752067
HE'S A FUCKING JEW SOCIALIST
>>67768296
Trump cannot be bought, that is why Trump is my choice for 2016.
MAGA
>>67767825
>While there have been all too many lies told in politics, most have some little tiny fraction of truth in them, to make them seem plausible. But the "trickle-down" lie is 100 percent lie
>It should win the contest both because of its purity -- no contaminating speck of truth -- and because of how many people have repeated it over the years, without any evidence being asked for or given
>Years ago, this column challenged anybody to quote any economist outside of an insane asylum who had ever advocated this "trickle-down" theory. Some readers said that somebody said that somebody else had advocated a "trickle-down" policy. But they could never name that somebody else and quote them
>Mayor de Blasio is by no means the first politician to denounce this non-existent theory. Back in 2008, presidential candidate Barack Obama attacked what he called "an economic philosophy" which "says we should give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else."
>Let's do something completely unexpected: Let's stop and think. Why would anyone advocate that we "give" something to A in hopes that it would trickle down to B? Why in the world would any sane person not give it to B and cut out the middleman? But all this is moot, because there was no trickle-down theory about giving something to anybody in the first place
>The "trickle-down" theory cannot be found in even the most voluminous scholarly studies of economic theories -- including J.A. Schumpeter's monumental "History of Economic Analysis," more than a thousand pages long and printed in very small type.
>It is not just in politics that the non-existent "trickle-down" theory is found. It has been attacked in the New York Times, in the Washington Post and by professors at prestigious American universities -- and even as far away as India. Yet none of those who denounce a "trickle-down" theory can quote anybody who actually advocated it.
t based nigger of liberal asshurt
>>67768379
There is no trickle down theory and your assertions and lack of arguments are not proving it does.
Regan's tax cuts resulted in a higher tax revenue. When Howard, Bush and Thatcher did the same thing they got the same result. Leaving more money in the economy increase economic activity which leads to greater tax revenue. This is not trickle down theory, its just economics 101.
>>67752067
Wow, I thought only American retards didn't understand the difference between welfare capitalism and socialism. Considering this is still /pol/ and not /nazi/, I'd expect people here to at least understand the political systems they're criticizing. It's not socialism when the government does stuff, dumbshits.
>>67768296
When you have a government who is granted so much power, that government will inevitably sell access to that power to the highest bidder.
Return our government to being a nation of laws whose sole purpose is to protect the rights of the people, and corporations will no longer have to buy government favor in order to exist in our oligarchy.
But when you have a government that wants to control vast areas of the nations economy and multi trillion dollar budgets, don't complain that there is 'too much money in politics'.
>>67768296
>When you have corporations paying Lobbyists to go "fund" politicians in order to pass legislature which in turn benefits their corporations,
Gee it's almost like capitalist supporters have always opposed such power existing for this very reason.
>corprashuns control le gubmit
>we need to gibs gubmit mo powah
All that faggots like you have been doing for over 100 years is creating a proverbial game of thrones where the only way to actually compete against each other is to utilize the power of government favoritism. The only way to end this is to remove the power of the government to pick winners and losers not allow government to have more power to pick winners and losers.
>>67768379
>If it doesn't exist then why is it discussed?
Because faggot leftist love their empty rhetoric and lies to sway Ignorant useful idiots like yourself who can't be arsed to even ask for evidence let alone find it yourself
>>67768367
No, I want to fix the problem by removing corporate loopholes and getting corporations the fuck away from our government. The Government is part of the problem yet, but that's because our government has been HIJACKED BY CORPORATIONS.
>>67758410
Namecalling is not a real argument.
>Bu-But they are doing it to sanders!
Congratulations on ALSO being an idiot I guess.
>>67758048
holy shit do you even realize how retarded you sound spouting off these john oliver tier memes?
>>67754568
As a former poli-sci major, where are people getting the idea that you need to be one to be president? Unless you're a PhD you don't learn that much, and academic knowledge doesn't translate to political leadership anyway
>>67768633
>But when you have a government that wants to control vast areas of the nations economy and multi trillion dollar budgets, don't complain that there is 'too much money in politics'.
>leftist in charge of not complaining about the failures of their ideas in the exact way that opposition predicted it would fail.
>>67768917
The government is hijacked by corporations because people like you think more government power is the cure. We've tried that already. It doesn't work.
You're gonna add another regulation and the same cycle will go over and over again.
This is a IQ test which you cannot seem to pass.
>>67768739
>Gee it's almost like capitalist supporters have always opposed such power existing for this very reason.
And yet they're too ignorant to realize that the economic power created by the private control of capital creates that political control to protect its own social position. "Government" doesn't just, on a whim, create a corrupt system where a small economic ruling class gets a majority of the nation's wealth. This is simply the inevitable result of capitalism.
>>67768794
Perhaps I'm not well educated on economics, I'll at least admit that and look more into it.
Ya happy?
>>67754780
>Man born into wealth shouldn't be POTUS
Washington, Jefferson, Madison, TR, FDR, JFK, etc. seemed to do OK
>>67769157
It's alright. No Bernie supporter ever read economics.
He's also a near mathematical impossibility
>>67769110
>And yet they're too ignorant to realize that the economic power created by the private control of capital creates that political control to protect its own social position. "Government"
This hadn't happened until the rise of the progressive movement in the late 1800s when said movement demanded centralized government regulations of the marketplace so you're point is historically false
>>67769157
Start here
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9z8u7Sz8n1c
>>67753991
>degree in economics
>still believes in protectionism
Kek
>>67768917
If you want to get government and corporations separated you would need a monarchy simply because of the incentives that having a temporary care taker (POTUS) makes.
Think of the POTUS as the owner of a house. As the temporary owner of the house, the POTUS wants to extract as much value as he can in the time he owns it. He doesn't care about how the house ends up because he just wants to make as much money as possible in the time he owns it.
There is no incentive to keep the house in good condition for the next in line, hence why he does whatever shifty and destructive things he can to extract value, no matter the consequences. This includes taking bribes and selling out to corporations.
No look at a monarch, the king owns the house, and when he is gone his son will have it, then his son, etc. This creates an intensive to keep the house in good condition. The king will not do as many destructive things to the house, because he knows his son will be the one responsible for fixing it up. If anything the king wants to make it better for his son.
>>67769381
>>67769110
>"Government" doesn't just, on a whim, create a corrupt system where a small economic ruling class gets a majority of the nation's wealth. This is simply the inevitable result of capitalism.
Oh and this takes the retard cake of most objectively false statements in this thread
>ussr
>Cuba
>North Korea
>nazi Germany
>China
>every totalitarian government in human history ever
Pic unrelated
>>67769381
>This hadn't happened until the rise of the progressive movement in the late 1800s
Yet you only prove my point. I didn't say "government control", I said "political [or social] control". Look at the paternalist movements and company towns of the 1800s. Even where no real government exists, capitalists will still exert overwhelming, corrupting influence over the economy and society. Capitalism had its place in history - industrializing our society. Keeping it around and not transitioning to a democratic, socialist mode of production is borderline suicidal for our civilization.
>>67769157
You should refrain form all political discourse until you do so. One of the first things you learn in economics is that people respond to incentives and politicians are people. Form there you can reason your way to why the world is the way it is today.
Economics is the most important thing you must understand in order to understand politics. It also makes things crystal clear.
>>67769685
t. person living in the wealthiest country in the world which has remained firmly capitalist while every other country that has tried to become socialist has had a 100% failure rate
>>67769229
Let me ask you this. Say we do get a 25% flat tax rate under Trump, yet we're still outsourcing the fuck out of jobs and keeping money in offshore accounts. It's still going to be cheaper over-seas and it's still going to be possible for huge corporations to keep money off shore.
If you sincerely believe Trump wants to bring jobs back to America while he has his own factories in China, you're kidding yourself.
But anyway, 25% flat tax while jobs are still out sourced and corporations are still dodging taxes at ~100billion a year. What does that do for our countries revenue? Seems to me we'd be hemorrhaging like a mother fucker. Am I wrong?
>>67769516
>socialism (the democratic control of capital) equals totalitarian dictatorship
>anyone who denies this is trying to redefine socialism (despite using the definition used by socialist intellectuals for centuries)
>no true scotsman because I don't want to be forced to argue against actual socialism instead of strawman socialism
>>67769685
>Look at the paternalist movements and company towns of the 1800s. Even where no real government exists, capitalists will still exert overwhelming, corrupting influence over the economy and society
You mean the town's that had a significantly higer standard of living than ever before in human history?
>Keeping it around and not transitioning to a democratic, socialist mode of production is borderline suicidal for our civilization.
Except the overwhelming evidence to the contrary showing that even mild steps towards this leads to nations becoming poorer than they would be if they kept their free market models.
Scandinavia is currently the best example to this and only those who haven't actually looked at long term numbers disagree.
Not to mention Socialism is quite literally impossible.
Not a single socialist has been able to address this argument for over 70 years
https://mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited
>>67769892
>If you sincerely believe Trump wants to bring jobs back to America while he has his own factories in China, you're kidding yourself.
If Trump DIDN'T outsource his jobs when every other country has, people like you would have a REAL legitimate reason to call him a bad businessperson.
Ever hear of fiduciary responsibility?
>>67769892
You must have missed the part where he wants to enact large tariffs on foreign produced goods, and provide a grace period for corporations to repatriate their offshore account holdings.
>>67769892
America is already haemorrhaging like a 'motherfucker'.
If a flat tax manages to create incentive for corporations that are overseas to move to America it is anyone's guess as to what the resulting revenue would be. No one knows which corporations and in what number would move back to America, not to forget the myriad of other unknown factors in the economy that effect both the revenue and the expenditure of the government.
>>67767045
>Give me proof he doesn't have a job, and lives off of welfare.
He works for "government". All "government" funds are stolen from people currently alive through taxation, or stolen from the unborn through printing. Bernie lives entirely off stolen money.
>>67752067
>He's a New Dealer.
No he's a New Deal Pt. 2 guy. ie. socialism.
>>67770057
Again, in your ignorance of actual socialism, you're criticizing a form of state capitalism, soviet central planning, that does not represent modern thought whatsoever. Socialism is about the democratic control of enterprises and the economy generally; worker cooperatives are a better glimpse of a socialist economy than the silly mistakes the Soviet Union made trying to industrialize after overthrowing the most oppressive feudal regime in Europe.
Honestly, the only time I've ever encountered this level of willful ignorance in the debate over socialism is when debating religion with fundamentalists.
>>67770065
It may be good business practice, it's cheaper labor. However if he's sincere about bringing jobs back to America why the FUCK would he want to outsource jobs? He clearly cares about maximizing his own profits rather than providing for the people of this country. And by providing I don't mean socialist agenda, I'm talking about giving others in this country opportunity. He could most likely afford to have factories here, but that wouldn't be maximizing profits, thus it's bad business practice.
He talks like he wants to bring jobs back to the US but does he really? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it when he himself is outsourcing jobs to maximize profits rather than giving jobs back to Americans who need the opportunity. The manufacturing sector in America is very under staffed due to out-sourcing and lack of want because people with college degrees feel they're too good for it because "that's the job of a chinaman" and "as an American I don't need to be in a factory or in the manufacturing business."
He talks about wanting to put a tariff on imported goods? So while companies pay less for it, the consumer is going to have to pay more than they already are? Is that what I'm hearing?
>>67770006
>so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/Submit
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Historically the only way to this means is state control of all capital/means to production in the so called "dictatorship of the proletariat"
When you're system from the very core necessitates centralized control of everything you have no room to complain when it is immediately taken over by a few totalitarian dicks.
>>67770459
>after overthrowing the most oppressive feudal regime in Europe.
>calls other people ignorant
>the USSR just under Lenin executed more people than 300 years under the tsars
>>67753991
Dankjewel dat je Nederland representeert voor wat we zijn; retards.
Why is it that college tuitions have sky rocketed to upwards of 30k-70k dollars? Back in the 60's a tuition, adjusted for inflation was about 1.5k.
What the fuck happened? Privatizing colleges and turning them into businesses rather than education centers seems to have made it more about maximizing profits than actually educating anyone.
>>67770459
I also seem to remember every socialist Westerner praising Chavez when they had their Socialist revolution so again the only one claiming no true Scotsman is you faggots when every single implementation of your ideas fails in the ways predicted since at least Bastiat
>>67770473
>However if he's sincere about bringing jobs back to America why the FUCK would he want to outsource jobs?
Fiduciary responsibility.
>He clearly cares about maximizing his own profits rather than providing for the people of this country.
Opinion.
> And by providing I don't mean socialist agenda, I'm talking about giving others in this country opportunity. He could most likely afford to have factories here, but that wouldn't be maximizing profits, thus it's bad business practice.
Why do you think America should be treated like a charity case? Trump wants to fix the reason why businesses won't drop their factories in America. You fix the root of the problem, not give her a half-assed band-aid. You think this is some sort of hypocrisy, but again, it's not. You have to respect the market in which you operate. Trump understands this and he wants to make the American markets favorable again.
>>67770741
>Why is it that college tuitions have sky rocketed to upwards of 30k-70k dollars?
Government backed loans which made it so there was essentially an infinite money pit for colleges to charge.
>What the fuck happened? Privatizing colleges and turning them into businesses rather than education centers seems to have made it more about maximizing profits than actually educating anyone.
>I know nothing about colleges in America
>>67770807
How is creating a manufacturing sector for Americans by Americans a "charity" case? They're still going to have to work for their money. It's not like it's a hand out. The problem here is that in China you can pay someone 6 cents an hour rather than 10 bucks an hour.
I'm not seeing your point here bud. It's not a "charity" case to want to provide jobs in the private sector. It's called being ethical and wanting to make your own country great again. He could have started from a business stand point. The only way jobs are going to be given back to Americans in manufacturing is if people in manufacturing are going to be okay with receiving cents rather than dollars and with the standard of living in the US that is NEVER going to be the case.
>>67770741
Overflow supply of applicants created from a culture of "no child left behind" allows for these "private" businesses to raise rates.
Colleges are privatized the same way a business is "owned" in nazi germany. (your name is on the paper, but the government controls you)
>Privatizing colleges and turning them into businesses rather than education centers seems to have made it more about maximizing profits than actually educating anyone.
Sorry but tenure is not a privatization of a market, but one could correlate it to a cause of lower educational quality.
>>67752067
You can call him whatever you like, he would make a shit President.
>>67752067
Kill yourself jew. He's a jew and that's all we need to know to avoid him.
>>67770528
>a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Essentially true, but not necessarily in the sense of direct control.
>Historically the only way to this means is state control of all capital/means to production in the so called "dictatorship of the proletariat"
This is the part where you're simply wrong. And understanding why requires your willingness to understand the history of socialist movements in a variety of countries, to include Western European evolutionary socialism as well as Russian-style revolutionary socialism. Also, you're misusing the term "dictatorship of the proletariat". Here, "dictatorship" isn't meant as literal political dictatorship; it indicates which class has social control. Currently, those in capitalist nations live in the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie".
Socialism is the idea that we must have democratic control of economic production to prevent the rise of a ruling class that will become corrupt and exploit everyone else. "Democracy" as commonly used is a similar ideal for political organization. It does not tell us precisely how these ideals should be implemented. And so it is equally stupid to say "democracy must be direct democracy, therefore democracy is bad" as it is to say "socialism must be state central planning, therefore socialism is bad".
>>67770797
>faggot, etc.
And oh how quickly the veneer of learned rationalism is worn away when the fanaticism beneath burns.
>>67770982
Well then enlighten me if I'm so "ignorant" about colleges in America. I know they have to fund technical centers and staff and whatnot, but why does it seem people back in the day were much easier to find a job and much better educated than today's college graduates? I refuse to pay out 30k dollars to enter a saturated market where my career isn't even promised to me and all colleges care about are making money rather than providing proper education.
>>67755201
>>67755725
Based Frenchbro spitting truth
Mettons-nous en état d'ébriété et de se moquer des Anglais un peu de temps.
>>67770807
>Fiduciary responsibility.
Haha wow, you must be the most naive person on this earth. We all know not a single factory will be like "alright yeah I'll just produce my goods in 'murica at a loss".
But even if they do, somehow. You'll have the next best thing: product prices will surge because of expensive labor, export will diminish, the American dollar will shit all over itself. Unless you adopt the china concept and slash minimum wages.
>>67771049
>How is creating a manufacturing sector for Americans by Americans a "charity" case?
Thats not what I was referring to when I said charity case.
It was a rhetorical question anyways.
>>67770741
You fucking idiot.
What happened is the easy access to student loans.
If anyone and everyone can get a loan for college, then colleges raise tuition to WHAT THE FUCKING MARKET WILL BEAR.
If everyone can just get a loan for $100k, then tuition will be $100k. If people have to actually pay for their college by working part time, then tuition will be what a college student can make working part time, like it was in the 60's. But you leftists thought this was 'unfair', that the only way to go to college was to work and pay for it, so you set up a massive student loan apparatus so anyone could get money to go to college, but in typical economic illiterate fashion you forgot that this will effect the market price of college.
For fuck sake, why are there people who are this ignorant of economics? Our public school system has failed dramatically.
>make housing loans easy to get for everyone with no money down
>HURR DURR, WHY IS THE HOUSING MARKET SO EXPENSIVE!?
>>67767680
because they all are
>>67771310
I'm naive, but you agree with me?
>>67771381
You're blaming the free market for making filling in niches and making fucktons of money off of loans, AND you manage to blame leftists. Holy fuck you are a piece of work
>>67771470
I need to get a pair of reading glasses, yes I do!
>>67771177
http://m.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2008/04/23/the_economics_of_college_part_iii/page/full
>>67752067
/pol/ doesn't know what socialism is. Neither do Bernie's supporters, really. Everyone in America thinks socialism means "capitalism I don't like!!1!"
It's a lost cause, man. Don't bother.
>>67771550
The Free Market is flawed, anybody can understand this, that's why we have regulations in the first place. People will always try to make a profit at the expense of others if they can.
>>67771318
Then what were you referring to as a charity case? I certainly don't advocate 15 dollars an hour as a minimum wage that is beyond retarded and will only do wonders for inflation.
I work in the private sector in a manufacturing company. Started at 10 dollars an hour. I work 60 hours a week, 6 days a week. I have been at this job for nearly two years (in June it will be 2 years so closer to a year and a half) and I am having to work even MORE hours now just to afford living on my own being that my room-mate is going to be moving out soon leaving me by myself. So I could be working up to 70 hours a week, making about 25k dollars a year living in the cheapest apartment I can find (about 700 dollars a month) and busting my ass to make ends meet. So it's now my fault because I refuse to take on 50 thousand dollars of debt? It's my fault because I haven't "exceeded" beyond the private sector or manufacturing? It's my fault because I have a "useless worthless skill" as someone who used to be my friend put it?
No, it's fucking bullshit. That's what it is. I have had a two dollar raise in the past half year, more than anyone else in my department probably, and I will be getting another one this year, and I've had two promotions. Yet it's STILL not enough for me to live comfortably. Something is very wrong here. The ethics and morality of this country have gone down the drown all in order to "maximize profits". We have a 9 million dollar contract coming and I have ONE OTHER PERSON IN MY DEPARTMENT. My company is too cheap to hire more people because they want to "maximize profits". This country has succumb to utter greed and it's not okay. The guy running my company is sitting there making fat ass bonuses any time a sign gets out BECAUSE OF ME and I'm just here with my dick in my hand at 12 dollars an hour like "yer welcome Mr. Multi-millionaire who rigged the system to work for himself and no one else in this company1"
>>67771550
>and making fucktons of money off of loans,
Those loans only exist(Ed) in both cases because the government would guarantee the money through what are essentially bailouts.
These types of loans never existed before until "government guaranteed loans" became a thing
>>67771659
You're right, but I don't think it's impossible to educate people who are disaffected with our current system and teach them what it really means. Richard Wolff has been doing a good job teaching Americans about socialism, for example. And although Sanders is (apparently) not a socialist, I think he's done a good job of making people potentially receptive to real socialist ideas. But I think actual socialists need to start organizing with and educating Sanders supporters.
>>67771759
Humans are flawed but market forces have always been shown to be the most effective way for us flawed people to associate together
>>67752067
You Berniefaggots are so retarded an deluded you keep yourselves excusing with that shit even thought he is not affraid to call himself a democratic socialist.
and what's worse
he was and he still is openly friendly to non-new dealer latin america I'm gonna turn your country into a shithole socialism formula
Cuba
Nicaragua
Allende's Chile
Venezuela
and by extension
Ecuador
Bolivia
Kirchner's Argentina
when asked to, he couldn¿t even explain the difference between his socialism and the socialism of some of the countries mentioned above.
He is such a hypocrite he said America shouldn't have intervened in socialist hellholes but he favoured and still favours "social movements" which were nothing but soviet funded programs to fuck Latin America through religion "liberation theology" he celebrated when such movement spawned and took over a democratically elected government in nicaragua, and he is probably openly friendly to other marxists armies created that way such as EZLN, FAARC and so on.
he is a fucking hypocrite
>>67771773
>So it's now my fault because I refuse to take on 50 thousand dollars of debt? It's my fault because I haven't "exceeded" beyond the private sector or manufacturing? It's my fault because I have a "useless worthless skill" as someone who used to be my friend put it?
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't want to discuss your life struggles if it's irrelevant to the conversation.
> Yet it's STILL not enough for me to live comfortably.
Therefore government gibmedats?
I mean technically this is the internet so you can say whatever the fuck you want, but i'm gonna need you to make a direct point for me to address.
I'm not sure where you're going with this.
>>67756443
>tax cuts for the rich
>literally doesn't study anything about his opposition
Why do people do this?
>>67771773
>The guy running my company is sitting there making fat ass bonuses any time a sign gets out BECAUSE OF ME and I'm just here with my dick in my hand at 12 dollars an hour like "yer welcome Mr. Multi-millionaire who rigged the system to work for himself and no one else in this company1"
Now imagine if you and your fellow workers owned that company instead of the rich asshole. Imagine if you were the one making business decisions and running the company democratically while sharing the profit of your labor instead of giving it away to exploitative capitalists. This is the world of socialism.
Bernie Sanders only has one skill, which is to give speeches about class warfare. He didn't write any important bills in 30 years. He's done NOTHING but talk for decades.
This thread is pointless because Clinton is going to win the nomination.
>>67772075
My point is about the economics of private corporations and how greed is trumping everything else. Storing money in off-shore accounts to avoid taxation, refusing to pay employees what they're worth, refusing to give a fair share to those who provide back for you.
If you couldn't see my questions and concerns from that then don't worry about it. I'm just saying the ethics and morality of this country are gone and have been entirely replaced by greed. Things didn't used to be this way when my dad was growing up, or his father. Yes, you had to work extremely hard but working extremely hard isn't even enough anymore because of corruption and greed ensuring those who are rich stay rich and continue to get richer.
>>67771550
>student loans
>free market
Are you high?
https://studentloans.gov
In the US student loans are regulated and guaranteed by the government. If they weren't, there is no fucking way a normal lending institution would give an 18 year old with no employment and no collateral a hundred thousand dollars.
Absent a government based student loan system, banks would lend kids at most a few thousand dollars, since unlike a car there is nothing to repossess.
Colleges would in turn have to figure out how to make due with tuitions that students could afford via modest loans, part time work, and available scholarships.
Of course, with a market approach, not everyone will be able to go to college, and this to leftists is 'unfair'.
>>67772293
Bullshit. A worker-owned factory is already an available possibility. All socialists want to do is steal the work of others so they don't have to go through the struggle of setting up the business.
>>67772293
I wouldn't have a problem with it because I'm not a greedy unethical fuck.
My brain is wired differently, to some people money is literally EVERYTHING. I don't CARE about money like that. I need it for what I need to survive and that's IT. Some people like to sit on fat stacks of money just to brag about it and say they're a millionaire and never reintroduce that money into the economy. That's the fucking problem with this country right now.
>>67772293
>labor instead of giving it away to exploitative capitalists
This idea was debunked in the 20s anon anyone still using it should be dismissed as a hack and a faggot.
BTW there is nothing in capitalism that stops you from starting a co-op there are plenty in existence
Oh and pic related
>>67754780
>Poor Jewish hippie man lived on welfare, hates rich people because he's too lazy to work, now wants to make everyone else poor and miserable
>Man born into wealth creates more wealth and more jobs, want to make your shitty country great again
Oh, wow, truly impressive and progressive!
>>67771773
>It's my fault because I have a "useless worthless skill" as someone who used to be my friend put it?
Yes
>My company is too cheap to hire more people because they want to "maximize profits". This country has succumb to utter greed and it's not okay. The guy running my company is sitting there making fat ass bonuses any time a sign gets out BECAUSE OF ME and I'm just here with my dick in my hand at 12 dollars an hour like "yer welcome Mr. Multi-millionaire who rigged the system to work for himself and no one else in this company1"
No you fucking retard, it's not because of you. if you die someone else is covering your position, you're not indispensable, you are disposable because there are thousands if not millions of people able to do what you do and therefore your skills are less valuable.
Labour value theory was proven wrong centuries ago yet they keep chanting it so useless people get to feel good about themselves.
it's not our fault you wanted to make a career out of a useless skill.
I've meet mexicans on the other side of the fence who do literally more meaningless task as you do and they don't complain
>>67772501
>Some people like to sit on fat stacks of money just to brag about it and say they're a millionaire and never reintroduce that money into the economy
You didn't really just say this did you?
Do you really think rich people have a Scrooge McDuck vault?
>>67771111
how the fuck did these digits go unchecked?
>>67772521
FUCKING THIS.
IT'S ALL ABOUT FUCKING GREED. The US has one of the HIGHEST ratios of pay for CEO to Employ. IT's something like 400:1
That's fucking UNACCEPTABLE DUDE. How can ANYONE fucking be okay with this?
>I worked really hard to rig this company in order to maximize profits for myself and no one else. You want to do that too? Go start your own company! Oh, even though I didn't start it I worked really hard and got up to the top and THEN changed policies within my own company in order to maximize profits!
It's fucking disgusting dude.
>>67772720
>FUCKING THIS.
You clearly didn't read the image you fucking retard
>>67772501
>Some people like to sit on fat stacks of money just to brag about it and say they're a millionaire and never reintroduce that money into the economy.
This is how I know you don't know the first thing about economics.
There are no rich people with scrooge mcduck style money vaults.
When you're rich, almost all your wealth is in stock & capital ownership, which is money in the economy creating goods and services and providing jobs, and any liquidity you may have is also in the bank, being loaned out once again driving the economy.
Until you learn how the economy actually works, don't expect anyone to take your middle school tier marxist ramblings seriously.
>>67772579
Oh you think you could do my job? Okay. Go get into the signage industry and learn everything about vinyl, digital printing and thermoforming that you can. Since it's a job everyone can fucking do.
If that were the case why am I the ONLY remaining original member of my department? Even people with college degrees have been fired due to inexpereince or lack of skill.
If my skill is SO fucking useless, then WHY am I the ONLY one remaining? If ANYONE can do it, then why don't you go do it? You want to carry around 200 pound sheets of plastic and learn 300 different types of vinyls and different techniques for stretching and forming vinyl into formed plastic faces? Yeah, it's real useless. Almost on the same level as custodial services you know. Cause anyone can do it.
I don't give a fuck what anyone says, signage is a BOOMING industry and EXTREMELY important to the success of companies every where in the world. So your ignorance is fucking showing.
>>67752067
Is the bernie meme still a thing? I thought that meme was officially DOA on Tuesday
>>67752067
>implying the new deal wasnt a bunch of bullshit
>>67772409
>refusing to pay employees what they're worth
What ARE you worth?
The free market determines that. Not you.
>refusing to give a fair share to those who provide back for you.
No one is forcing you to work you job. You do it because it is the best possible option.
>I'm just saying the ethics and morality
No subjective ethics allowed.
>Things didn't used to be this way when my dad was growing up, or his father.
Yup. There was less government regulation. It was easier to set up a company and make a real living. The market wasn't oversaturated with laborers. Many things are different.
>Yes, you had to work extremely hard but working extremely hard isn't even enough anymore because of corruption and greed ensuring those who are rich stay rich and continue to get richer.
Do you know why there were so many child laborers in the early 1900s? The guilded age of american history? The period of time which there existed free market capitalism?
Its because they weren't DEAD. Know why there weren't many child laborers in the 1600s? They were dead.
Sweden used to be the 4th wealthiest country in the world before socialism. Now after socialism they're the 14th.
Socialism is a disease. You can't expect it to solve the issues in our society.
>>67752067
>>>/k/29288681
Also /k/ supports Bernie Sanders and there is alot of shilling in this thread because someone decided to play the "political correct is wrong" game with them
>>67768615
>what's muh vanguard party
>what's muh revolutionary spirit
>what's muh eternal revolution
you literally know nothing about MLM, faggot
>>67752067
READ THIS:
http://henrymakow.com/2016/02/bernie-sanders-is-a-freemason.html
>While attending the University of Chicago, Sanders joined the Young People's Socialist League, the youth wing of the Socialist Party USA. He also organized for a communist front, the United Packinghouse Workers Union, which at the time was under investigation by the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
>After graduating with a political science degree, Sanders moved to Vermont, where he headed the American People's History Society, an organ for Marxist propaganda. There, he produced a glowing documentary on the life of socialist revolutionary Eugene Debs, who was jailed for espionage during the Red Scare and hailed by the Bolsheviks as "America's greatest Marxist."
>"Those Russian comrades of ours have made greater sacrifices, have suffered more, and have shed more heroic blood than any like number of men and women anywhere on Earth," Debs proclaimed. "They have laid the foundation of the first real democracy that ever drew the breath of life in this world."
>Sanders still hangs a portrait of Debs on the wall in his Senate office.
>In 1985, he traveled to Managua to celebrate the rise to power of the Marxist-Leninist Sandinista government. He called it a "heroic revolution." Undermining anti-communist US policy, Sanders denounced the Reagan administration's backing of the Contra rebels in a letter to the Sandinistas.
>Sanders also adopted a Soviet sister city outside Moscow and honeymooned with his second wife in the USSR. He put up a Soviet flag in his office, shocking even the Birkenstock-wearing local liberals.
>>67773201
You found something upsetting about the statements "welfare capitalism is not socialism" and "socialism is not simply when the government does stuff [within a society with a capitalist economic substructure]"?
>>67773540
and since OP calls the Communist Sanders a "New Dealer," here are the thoughts of a genuine, die-hard New-Dealer and intellectual Webster G. Tarpley on Bernie Sanders:
http://tarpley.net/treachery-of-man-pro-peace-vermonters-call-%E2%80%9Cbernie-the-bomber%E2%80%9D/
http://tarpley.net/milquetoast-bernie-sanders-senator-from-lockheed-martin-and-left-gatekeeper-for-the-democratic-party/
http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/05/webster-g-tarpley-bernie-sanders-refuses-to-attack-wall-street-and-the-fed/
YOU NEED AN EDUCATION, OP
>>67773017
>/k/ supports Bernie Sanders
the fuck are you talking about?
/k/ largely consideres sanders to be a gun grabber (semi-auto ban)
>>67773599
>It's not socialism when the government does stuff, dumbshits.
I may have misinterpreted "does stuff" to mean, "stuff relevant to economics" as I can't imagine why else you would mention it?
>they didn't realize the anti-bernie narrative on here and leddit was pushed hard by paid hillary shills
reap what you sow tobh. Hillary 2016
>>67774176
>voting for a woman
>>67773845
Although I'm pretty sure you know all this, Americans typically believe that anything managed by the government is "socialism" despite the fact that socialism cannot exist in a capitalist society where there is private ownership of capital. Certainly something like universal health care would be a system that would exist in a socialist country, but that does not make it, on its own, "socialism". A capitalist nation with universal health care is still capitalism (plus concessions). It is absolutely, absolutely not "some capitalism and some socialism". I'd say that's the biggest error that Sanders supporters currently make, anyway.
>>67772932
>Oh you think you could do my job? Okay. Go get into the signage industry and learn everything about vinyl, digital printing and thermoforming that you can.
what do you do? you push a button so a machine designed and tested by engineers can print the sign your boss sell?
then you said
>>67772932
>If that were the case why am I the ONLY remaining original member of my department? Even people with college degrees have been fired due to inexpereince or lack of skill.
Because it's easier and cheaper to train new hires than to keep coping with unskilled ones.if it weren't easy then your boss would hire experienced people, offer higher wages and make suure the unskilled ones that get some shit right from time to time, got trainings so they can get the skills that are needed.
>If my skill is SO fucking useless, then WHY am I the ONLY one remaining? If ANYONE can do it, then why don't you go do it?
> You want to carry around 200 pound sheets of plastic and learn 300 different types of vinyls and different techniques for stretching and forming vinyl into formed plastic faces?
doesn't sound too complicated imo
how long does it get for a new hire to get trained in all that?
be honest anon, thought you might BTFO yourself when answering your own question.
>I don't give a fuck what anyone says, signage is a BOOMING industry and EXTREMELY important to the success of companies every where in the world. So your ignorance is fucking showing.
so? if the amount of people with a skill is bigger than the amount of people willing to hire them then the skill is valued less
the fact that you earn 10 USD an hour shows it
>>67752067
>Bernie Sanders is not a socialist.
He's an anarcho-syndico-democratic-social-networkist
BERNKEKS JOO-TFO'd
>>67774591
>>67772932
Also, if it were a booming industry like you said, and if your skill was so valuable then you could've probably found another job with another employer that could value your skills more there fore offering you more money.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
you are still wrong.
>>67774392
Sorry, anon. I misunderstood.
However, given how often those promoting socialism will claim various successes of any government program as owing success to socialism, one could hardly be surprised that others would start calling those programs socialist too, so I agree with this
>I'd say that's the biggest error that Sanders supporters currently make, anyway.
as they would have a hard time calling it socialism but only when it behooves them to do so.
>>67765749
What about all the jobs he created for Americans and immigrants that you care so dearly for? He made his money and shared it, if he had merely invested his money and lived off the dividends you would be knocking him for that. Fuck off
How is anyone here going to attempt and shit on the new deal??? It saved this country. How can you disagree with what sanders wants to do when it's essentially the same thing?
>>67753540
>No political science education
>mfw anon thinks this is a negative
