literally undebatable
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literally undebatable
>>67703635
Don't like murder? Don't commit it.
Don't like suicide? Don't kill yourself.
Don't like nuclear war? Don't press the button.
Where does it end? Don't like to diddle little kids? Don't do it. We need laws in this society, libertarianism is a great idea in theory, but humans ruin it. Grow up.
>>67703861
Exactly
literally undebatable
>>67703635
>Dont like chaos and unlawful acts?
>Dont be black
Whats your point, OP?
Don't like being beheaded? Don't be a Christian.
Don't like the idea of Muhammad raping your daughter? Don't have kids.
Don't like right wingers at votes? Don't go voting.
Don't like shitposts? Don't be a cuck
>>67703635
Faggot marriage and abortions destroy society.
>>67703635
Don't like guns? Don't get shot.
Don't like pedos? Don't be a child.
>>67703635
Dont like rape? Don't do it
Don't like bestality? Don't do it
Don't like racemixing? Don't do it
SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LIKE COME ONE PEOPLE IT"S 2016 LIKE COME ON. LET ME RAPE, KILL, AND TOUCH ANIMALS LIKE IT'S 2016. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT
>>67703635
Don't like fucking babies? Don't fuck them.
Don't like drowning babies? Don't drown them.
But don't say someone else can't do it.
Undebateable.
Don't like guns? Don't shoot them.
>>67704552
>american in charge of understanding basic things
>Don't like your rights taken away? Don't take away someone else's.
what
>>67703635
Alright, but what if I don't like other people getting special privileges and free stuff for doing absolutely nothing while I work hard?
>>67703930
The idea that humans will ruin isn't really convincing, humans tend to ruin pretty much anything if they lead astray, regardless what it may be.
Give me back pokerstars you old jews
>>67703635
What about guns?
>Don't like guns? Don't buy one.
What about blacks?
>Don't like blacks? Don't hire them.
>>67705189
In a libertarian society you won't pay jack unless you volunteer.
>>67703635
This is what faggots belive.
We need to have restrictions in our societies, else we just decend into some becoming some anarchistic shithole.
>Don't like driving your car at 150 mph in populated areas? Go drive somewhere else
See how that sort of logic absolutely does not work?
>>67703635
>Muh individualism
>Society's wellbeing is irrelevant
>All that matters is ME ME ME
These people are cancer.
>>67705189
then don't work to support them. join the NEET
>>67703635
>don't like trump rallies, don't go
>don't like trump victories, leave the country
>don't like guns, don't own one
>>67703635
the problem is that literally all of those things harm people other than the user. the only arguments supporting them are selfish arguments
>>67705617
But by working I get to enjoy a higher standard of living.
I just feel like your living conditions should scale directly with your income, and I feel bad for people who work at minimum wage barely managing to scrape by while someone who doesn't work and has no intention of working gets food, housing, and money to spend on luxuries for free.
>>67703635
Don't like child pornography? Don't fuck em.
Don't like hitting women? Don't hitting.
Don't like Trump? Don't vote for him.
>>67703635
Yes because all of those things totally don't affect you if someone else chooses to do them. I don't give a fuck what a person chooses to do in their bedroom, but don't call it marriage. Give them a civil union or whatever the fuck you want to call it but marriage is between a man and a woman.
>>67705199
...which is why you need a moral authority and not libertarianism
>>67703635
Don't like cancer? Don't enter shit post threads.
Drugs shouldn't be on there.
They affect more than the user; the affect the family, friends, and community of the user.
>b-but drugs never hurt anybody
>I know it's bait and I don't care
>>67703635
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
>>67706385
God, the amount of people I see every day that are mad at Trudeau for not legalizing weed yet, it really pisses me off.
Don't like lefties? Don't be one
Don't like jews? Don't be one
Don't like your government? Leave
Don't like rapefugees? Leave
And all of mankind's troubles were never ever solved
Don't like ramming a fully loaded 767's into tall office complexes? Don't get on the plane
Don't take the rights away from jihadis.
Your parents should have liked abortion
>>67703635
>don't like murder
>don't kill people
>don't like rape
>don't rape people
>don't like robbery?
>don't rob people
>but don't take away somebody else's right to rape, rob, and murder
>undebatable
yah, becuase you're a fucking retard
>>67706642
marijuana isn't comparable to real drugs though.
go to a chemical dependency clinic and tell them you're addicted to marijuana and they'll laugh your stupid ass out of there so fast you'll have speed burns on your ass.
>>67703635
>Don't like gay marriages, don't get one...
Pic related, you fucking kike.
What is social decline?
>>67703635
Don't like rich people? Stay poor
Top kek
>>67707283
Murder, rape, and robbery infringe upon the rights of other people. The things listed in the OP do not.
>>67705088
Sip Akbar
when will the libertarian meme stop
>>67703930
libertarianism isn't a free for all anarchy.
>>67703635
The mainstream acceptance (and promotion) of certain seemingly individual/personal behaviors changes all of society. We are ALL affected, and the character of the nation changes in a way that many feel is not for the better.
Don't like white privlege? Leave white country
>>67703635
Don't like Trump? Don't vote for him.
>>67708074
/thread
>>67703635
Society is made up of atomized individuals with no relationship to each other. in fact there is no such thing as society such a collection unrelated individuals with their own interests. Nothing I do or what others do will influence my life. Right, you retarded lolbertarian?
>>67703861
gay marriage, abortion, sex, drugs, porn, and alcohol do not affect anyone but the individual who makes the direct decision to partake. murder and nuclear war are the opposite.
>>67703635
Don't like guns don't buy one, don't like taxes don't pay them, don't like laws break them, we can go on and on.
>>67708012
Is that guy holding a medic kit? lol
>>67703635
>everybody should be able to do whatever they want
I'm sure that will work out real well
>>67708263
>drugs do not affect anyone but the individual
>>67708704
Don't like speed limits? Ignore them.
>>67708849
No, Sven, it goes more like
>Don't like speeders?
>Don't speed
I'll forgive you this time as I realize English is not your native language, and American memes can sometimes be rather subtle in their format
>>67703635
Freedom is overrated
>>67708849
Speed limits have often been shown to increase accidents, they are more about police revenue than safety.
That said I wouldn't want Americans driving at autobahn speeds with the lax drivers license requirements we have here
>>67708263
>gay marriage, abortion, sex, drugs, porn, and alcohol do not affect anyone but the individual who makes the direct decision to partake.
It sets a bad example to more young and naive people.
>>67709724
>Speed limits have often been shown to increase accidents
The fuck?
Speed limits in dangerous areas massively decreases the amount of accidents
>>67707633
Y U R I
U
R
I
>>67709724
>Speed limits have often been shown to increase accidents, they are more about police revenue than safety.
lol wut
Source? Sounds made up as fuck.
>>67709783
>It sets a bad example to more young and naive people.
That would be a really arbitrary line to draw.
>>67708263
Drugs ruins entire families, and it doesn't even include the collateral that comes from smuggling/producing them.
Abortion is a complete disregard for the most basic human right
Gay marriage (I'm gay) is a complete disrespect of it's real religious purpose, albeit civil marriage should be allowed.
Don't like your kids? Disown them.
>>67703635
>Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one.
Okay, but what about the priests that now have to marry gays
>>67703635
>Wanting to live in a world where you're surrounded by shit you don't like
Defeatist scum
>Don't like child molestation? Don't molest children.
>Don't like rape? Don't be a rapist
>Don't like murder? Don't kill people
Whoa it's that easy.
why kill babies?
>>67709892
>>67710026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BKdbxX1pDw
That is just like this
>>67710270
Child molestation, rape, and murder infringe upon the rights of others. The things listed in the OP do not.
>>67703635
Gay? Don't force any church to marry you, do it at the fucking courthouse.
Like abortions? You're doing the ultimate infringement on another's right, just that you're too fucking stupid to see it.
Like sex? Have it, but keep it in your bedroom and STFU about it.
Like drugs? Fine, but if you OD, don't call for help, that's your problem and should be yours alone. Get arrested, same thing, not anyone's problem but yours, expect no sympathy.
Like porn? Fine, rub your dick raw, I'll get laid instead.
Like alcohol? Good for you, but stay off the fucking roads when you drink, asshole.
Don't like me having an opinion other than yours? Go fuck yourself if you can't handle it, faggot.
>>67703930
/thread
ITT: arbitrary lines
>>67703635
No mention of firearms.
>>67710474
drugs absolutely infringe upon others.
same with alcohol
Unless you're doing those things literally by yourself, in which doing those things are way down on the list of problems.
>>67710474
Don't like what someone posted?
Don't be a bitch
>>67703635
Not sure what the problem is here... the end is almost a non sequitur but the nature of rights pretty much demands that if you like having them you shouldn't go about taking them.
>>67710231
>Okay, but what about the priests that now have to marry gays
Don't marry them.
>>67710270
>>67710474
>Don't like child molestation?
Stop having kids.
>Don't like rape? Don't like murder?
Don't be around people.
>>67710721
>drugs absolutely infringe upon others.
How?
>same with alcohol
How?
>>67708263
>aborting aka killing a baby dont affect anyone
>forced gay marriage by the state dont affect anyone
>drug dont affect anyone's surrounding
are you that fucking dense?
>>67710524
Fetsuses don't have rights
>All these shills must claim that fetuses are human beings, of course, or they really have no case against abortion.
Don't like murder? Don't commit one.
>>67705088
>ahmed shitposting
Don't you have a White woman to rape, sand nigger?
>>67710807
>Stop having kids.
It's my right to.
>Don't be around people.
It's my right to.
>>67703635
>don't want any of this influencing your child at a young age?
>too bad
You forgot the part where it's degeneracy and damaging to further generations and our society, you fucking faggot.
>>67710871
>>forced gay marriage
What?
Who's forced to gay marry?
>>67703635
>members of a group should not concern themselves with actions of individuals from said group
>even though the actions of the individuals have a direct effect on the prosperity of the group
Also, it's a complete rejection of democracy which is
>don't agree with gay marriage? Vote against it
>don't agree with drugs? Vote against them
>>67711109
No, people who don't want to marry them or serve them are forced to do it anyway
>>67703635
>Don't like sex? Don't have it.
Doesn't matter if I abstain when the majority of the public doesn't. Since we've linked the increase of non-marital sex partners to higher divorce rates, lower marital happiness etc. it becomes my business. Why? Because children born into divorced homes are more likely to end up on welfare, more likely to commit crimes, etc. As a taxpayer, I'll be paying for your irresponsibility. As a taxpayer who is expected to cover your slack, I absolutely have a right to tell you how to live.
>>67703635
>Don't like incest, don't have it.
>Don't like to fuck kids, don't fuck one.
>Don't like someone fucking your mother's corpse, don't fuck corpses.
>Don't like rape porn, don't watch it.
>Don't like heroin, don't take it.
>Don't like fluoride in your water, don't drink it.
>Don't like your rights taken away?
>Don't take someone else's.
>>67703635
Don't like guns? Don't buy one :^)
>>67703861
>>67703930
>what are false comparisons for 500 alex
All of those things affect other people. Gay marriage literally only affects the 2 people getting married. Abortion only affects the mother and father (the fetus is not nearly developed enough to have any kind of memory or conscious thinking)
>>67710877
Yes, because you are the one who gets to decide at what point it's fine and when it's not for abortion. God, you leftbertarians do like to make calls that cater to your desire to do as you please while ignoring the damage you do to others, but hey, muh freedoms to abort come first!
>>67711441
exactly
I'll keep mine and shoot you if you want to take it
>>67708847
He's not wrong though, if the individual decides to act like an idiot because of drugs then that's their fault not the drug's. Just like if someone decides to shoot up a place that should be on them and not the gun.
>>67711324
That's bad and shouldn't happen, but it's also not required. Gay marriage in and of itself doesn't infringe anyone's rights.
>>67711443
They're not false comparisons, they are the same logic applied to things YOU don't like and blown off in the same fashion.
>>67710787
>Don't marry them.
Did you miss the recent Supreme Court ruling or something
>>67711324
>don't like doing my job
>muh feelings
fuck off then, get a different fucking job
If a fucking sjw was crying about needing a safe space to keep away from the gays you'd be the first to complain
>>67703635
These same morons will support universal healthcare as well. They're delusional morons.
>>67711390
No you don't
>You disagree with what I believe?
>Let me force my beliefs on you because I need everyone to think like me
>>67711650
it is a false comparison. A gay mariage only affects the 2 people getting married and they both chose it.
Killing someone literally affects someone who DOESNT get to choose it. How fucking retarded are you to not understand this? You are forcing murder on someone else. No one is forced to get gay married
>>67705036
>Don't like getting shot? Don't stand in front of bullets.
>>67703635
All of those make sense except for the last one.
>>67703635
>Don't like rape? Don't rape.
>Don't like suicide? Don't kill yourself?
>Don't like beastiality? Just don't fucking do it man.
BUT DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN'T DO LOLOLOLOL
>>67711759
>The immorality and irresponsibility of people undermines the strength and stability of my nation
>You don't have a right to stop that.
>People actively make bad decisions that will statistically lead to me and other taxpayers paying more.
>You don't have a right to stop that.
No, fuck off, degenerate. If I'm expected to pick up the bill for your decisions, I'm going to tell you to knock it the fuck off.
>>67711829
>A gay mariage only affects the 2 people getting married and they both chose it.
An incestuous marriage or an underage marriage only affects those that choose it too, so long as you ignore that people's actions affect the wider world as you do,
>>67711592
>not required
Lel. I'll forgive you because you're not American, but it's starting to become required, to the tune of $250k in fines in Oregon.
>>67711719
Being able to get an ambulance ride to the Emergency room and not get hit with a bill for 10's of thousands of dollars should be common-sense in a wealthy first-world nation.
Amazingly it IS the case in every first world nation but hours. But you go with your Jesus Feels brother. Jesus hated them fucking poor people with a passion.
>>67711579
Except guns don't alter your mind and how you perceive reality. After buying a gun and taking it to the shooting range you don't feel a compulsion to buy more guns and ammunition at any and all costs. Who robs their family and friends to feed their gun range addiction? Who goes to prison because they can't stop shooting their gun at the range.
>>67711479
>My opinion matters on the internet
Keep stroking your neckbeard covered in Cheeto dust, while the glow of your computer screen just dimly lights your acne covered face
Sucks to suck sperglord
>>67711988
>false comparison
>>67703635
>Don't like abortions? Don't get one.
I'm pretty sure the babies don't have a say in this matter.
>>67711759
>No you don't
Progressives, everyone. Just shout no as loud as you can, eventually everybody else shuts up.
>>67708263
Drugs ruin families.
"Casual sex" leads to depression and/or STDs.
Abortion literally *is* murder, at least from a philosophical standpoint and not the wishy-washy fucking garbage relativism liberals love so much.
>>67711759
You can do what you want once the government stops subsidizing your healthcare. Want to shoot up heroin while having gay butt sex? Sure, but you shouldn't be given any subsidies.
>>67711670
typical retard who only value the rights they like and say fuck to rights they dislike. Of course you type muh, sjw and safespace like a fucking autist
>muh is an argument
People should be able to serve and not serve whoever the fuck they want even if your feefees are hurt in the process by those ebil beegots. Also safespace has absolutely nothing to do with the situation
>>67712047
>An incestuous marriage
i have no problem with incest as long as no babies are born from it because then the child has to grow up with incest genes forced on it.
As for underaged mariage, a child is not even close enough to being mentally mature enough to consent to mariage. Kill yourself you disgusting subhuman mudslime. Its extremely obvious from your posts you are a goatfucker.
>>67703635
Almost all of things harm the society as a whole. Because I am a member of society, and indeed one who has taken personal responsibility for the defense of the civil body politic, they harm me.
>>67712160
That's not even an argument. You didn't even try to refute his claim. You know why? Because you know abortion is murder and it's indefensible.
>>67712092
Sorry, I meant that it's not a necessity to enforce gay marriage. Those states could very easily hire willing civil servants to ordain marriages if they wanted to. You don't need to repeal gay marriage in order to fix the issues with it.
>>67703635
>don't like guns? Don't buy one
I'd buy it if it had that, but it doesn't, so it's obviously a liberal bait image.
>>67711324
>No, people who don't want to marry them or serve them are forced to do it anyway
It would be like if people in the drive through stopped selling you food because you looked like a useless NEET.
Should we fine people who don't want to feed you because of how you look?
I'm torn, but in a free country we continue to feed you anyway fatass, even though it's morally questionable.
>>67712325
Nobody cares.
>>67712038
>Spoken like a true virgin
>>67712341
>i have no problem with incest as long as no babies are born from it because then the child has to grow up with incest genes forced on it.
So outside of a totalitarian state sticking its nose into every aspect of your life it's fine huh?
Certain taboos are taboo for a reason, because mixed with freedom it produces problems that in the face of which the only real solution (other than getting rid of your policy) is totalitarianism to ensure all are living by your specific guidelines.
>>67712583
is that an unironic argument or youre just memeing im not usre
>>67703635
Sex, Drugs and Alcohol can ruin other peoples lives, too. You fucking tard!
>>67708263
Abortion affects the baby. Drugs affect the people around the drug abuser. Look at how many people are killed by drunk drivers every year and tell me alcohol doesn't affect others.
Porn, consensual sex, and gay marriage are pretty harmless to anyone not involved, but that doesn't mean the state should celebrate them and demand you celebrate them as well.
When will those bastards realize that we live in society, so what somebody does affects, directly or indirectly, the rest of us.
ITT: boot lickers and deregulators
>Gay Marriage
I wouldn't care if it weren't for the wave of societal degeneracy that came after the repeal of DADT that I have to watch and be exposed to.
>Abortion
I'll give you this one, I support abortion because it keeps the dindu population low
>Sex
The problem is the "high school jock" culture that dominates society that says men are worthless if they're virgins. Also, recreational sex is promoted by dindu rap culture to create more degenerate nigger babies and treat women like shit.
>Drugs
With legalization, the "420 Calluhdoody stoner bro" people become more common. Morev degeneracy.
>Porn
Run by Jews, treat women like shit, villify men as being sex-obsessed animals, create a class of porn-dependant degenerates.
>Alcohol
I'lll also give you this one. You can learn alot about a culture by the beer they drink.
>Muh Rights
Fuck off Libertarian Retard
>>67712448
No, because there is no evidence that the fetus is a person
>Therefore, abortion is not murder unless one considers the fetus to be a person. According to Roe v. Wade, the word "person" does not include the unborn, and a fetus does not have equal status with the mother until the point of viability, or when the fetus can exist outside of the mother's womb
Stay mad
>>67703635
gayyyy
>>67712923
When someone who is unable to take care of a baby gets pregnant, it effects the grandparents and/or other family members of the child.
>>67712684
>Raised in a Christian household
>Don't plan on having sex until marriage
>Have the Bible and Statistics to justify my belief
>Y-you're a virgin!
Well, yeah? How is that supposed to be an insult?
>>67712859
>totalitarian state sticking its nose into every aspect of your life it's fine huh?
>strawmanning this hard
People are free to do what they want as long as it doesnt affect other people. Its really not hard to understand
>>67713110
>No, because there is no evidence that the fetus is a person
That people is called ageism. Fetuses are people or are you denying that they have the same DNA that adults have? You're denying someone their human right to life based solely on how old they are. And worse, you're killing people based on *convenience*.
Abortion is murder. Human fetuses are human.
>>67703635
don't like white people? Don't move to their communities
simple enough, we didn't make you do it.
>>67711443
that's not true. gay people can claim to have been married by the church of satan or whatever and wear rings no matter what the law says. "gay marriage" is actually about getting tax privledges given to straight couples, which affects everyone else who pays taxes.
>>67712684
Breaking out the ad-homs so soon? Its almost like you don't have an argument.
>>67713138
>Statistics
You showed nothing
You are now speaking out of your ass
>Bible
The Bibles claims this:
>TheBibledescribes a line of descendants of Adam and Eve, and if we add ages of these people, this can lead to an estimate of the age of the earthof roughly 6000 years.
The oldest formation on Earth:
>Zircon crystalsfrom theJack Hillsof Australia, like the one above, reveal that continents arose just 160 million years after our solar system formed.
>>67713179
>People are free to do what they want as long as it doesnt affect other people
Under your regime, you ignore the effect it has on society (aka other people) because freedom (hedonism and nihilism) trumps all "backwards" beliefs.
>>67713282
>That people is called ageism. Fetuses
Fuck off back to tumblr. A person is a person because of our highly adanved brains give rise to conscious thoughts and memories. A fetus is so underdeveloped its brain isnt even CLOSE to being able to do that. Thats why we have a cut off point where the brain starts to ACTUALLY develop.
You would know this is you knew anything about neuroscience.
>>67703635
this. but as far as advertisement goes, that can be banned.
>>67713464
those tax breaks are meant to encourage family unity and having children. A gay couple has no business draining these benefits from the state coffers
>>67708263
>Gay marriage
What about the churches that are forced to marry gays despite gay marriage conflicting with their religious beliefs?
>Abortion
What about the unborn child? What about the father?
>Sex
What about overpopulation? What about poor people having children who are taken care of via government assistance which is paid for with taxpayer money?
>Drugs
The demand for illegal drugs is the reason the illegal drug market exists at all. Are you really going to assert that illegal drug trade only affects people who consume drugs? What about taxpayers funding the war on drugs? What about innocent casualties resulting from gang violence? Aside from the drug trade, what about people who are affected by the actions of people under the influence of drugs? What about those people who were attacked by people who were high on bath salts?
>Porn
What about the people working in the sex industry? What about children who are forced to perform in child pornography? What about victims of revenge porn?
>Alcohol
What about people killed by drunk drivers? What about the children of alcoholics? What about the spouses of alcoholics?
>>67711443
>(the fetus is not nearly developed enough to have any kind of memory or conscious thinking)
So we can kill people who are asleep, right?
I mean it could be painless, and they wouldn't be able to feel it, so what's the problem? If other people get sad about it we can just kill them in their sleep too.
>>67713282
Trying this hard
You already lost
Your shitposting limit has been reached
Now go get a social life
>>67713464
>tax privledges given to straight couple
>i literally have no idea how my country or mariage benefits work: the post
here il educate you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States#Rights_and_benefits
none of that has anything to do with taxpayer dollars. You think straight couples get benefits from taxpayers? are you fucking retarded?
>>67711579
Heroine addiction makes people neglect their kids for their next fix
Since when are those rights?
>>67713556
>Under your regime
i have no regime.
>you ignore the effect it has on societ
i literally said you are free to do what you want until it starts to effect other people. Are you fucking retarded?
>>67713676
>So we can kill people who are asleep,
>i have literally no idea how the brain works and i think it just shuts off and is dead when people are asleep.
Holy shit they dont teach Americans anything at school do they. The vast majority of your brain is still working while you sleep
>>67713676
fetuses don't pay taxes, why should they have any rights whatsoever?
>>67713757
Larger benefits under some programs if married, including:
Veteran's disability
Supplemental Security Income
Disability payments for federal employees
Medicaid
Property tax exemption for homes of totally disabled veterans
Income tax deductions, credits, rates exemption, and estimates
Wages of an employee working for one's spouse are exempt from federal unemployment tax[3]
>>67713942
That's irrelevant. They wouldn't be able to think about being dead because they'd already be dead, and the ability to think is apparently what makes a person a person.
>>67713942
>i have no regime.
Bullshit. The progressive regime is such no matter how you protest.
>i literally said you are free to do what you want until it starts to effect other people. Are you fucking retarded?
Yet you yourself do affect society (other people), assuming you're gay yourself... That you ignore this fact reflects a significant amount of cognitive dissonance on your part.
>>67713544
I suggest you read up on the statistics of single parent households.
tl;dr they are worse in every way compared to traditional families.
>>67714102
>im fucking retarded: the post
that has nothing to do with GAY MARIAGE. Those are things given to EVERYONE if you are a VETERAN or disabled. The reason its listed under spousal rights its because your SPOUSE has rights to your veterans disability and so forth.
>>67713676
People who sleep are developed fully capable brains
Fetsuses don't sleep, they are just there
>>67714253
>moving goalposts so far im not even sure why you are trying to argue
>>67714295
>The progressive regime
oh god you really are retarded
>assuming you're gay yoursel
nope i like girls.
>That you ignore this fact reflects a significant amount of cognitive dissonance on your part.
Did you even graduate highschool? i feel like im talking to a child who just listens and believes everything they read on /pol/
>>67708263
Look at what crack did to the inner city
>>67714547
Your post is a non post. Simply the sperg-out of one faced with their own fallibility.
>>67705569
I agree, this is the "fuggit" era of people who are just so far up their ass in entitlement its baffling.
>>67714701
>get btfo
>waaah your post isnt even real because i closed my eyes abloo bloo bloo
You need to be atleast 18 to post here. Come back when your balls drop.
>>67713544
>Statistics
Let's start with pic related. Enjoy that because I now can't use the obligatory fedora photo,
>Bible claims this
>Le 6000 year old earth maymay
Good to know you're THAT kind of antitheist.
>>67714547
>>moving goalposts so far im not even sure why you are trying to argue
That sounds like that you're doing. You're trying to say that "thinking" defines personhood even though you claim that brain activity automatically equals conscious thought.
>>67714801
You have blown out noting. Your post previous was the standard nonsense. You going to call me a neck bearded basement dweller next?
>>67704298
I would change that to :
Don't like shit posts? Don't be Australian.
>>67708263
Morality is objective, like gravity. It affects everybody. Read about natural law (Thomism and Aristotelianism in particular)
>>67714354
Faggots don't need those benefits because they will never have children, but they get them anyway. It incentivizes faggotry and gay marriage, not just equalizes it with straight marriage
>>67703635
Don't like guns? Don't take away other peoples.
>>67703635
Don't like dubs? Don't post comment.
>>67703635
Are any of those rights?
Why aren't guns on there?
>>67714900
>brain activity automatically equals conscious thought.
i never even implied that. You really have no idea how the human brain works do you. Would you like some reading material? i have quite a few articles saved.
>>67714953
>WAAH I CALLED YOU GAY AND EVEN THO U ARENT GAY IM STILL GOING TO JUST KEEP CRYING WAAAAAAH
>>67715013
>they will never have children
adoption, sperm donors, and surrogates say otherwise. Lots of gay couples have children.
Spousal benefits have nothing to do with children you inbred.
>>67703635
"gay marriage" isn't a right since it isn't a natural occurence and the institution that created marriage disagrees with it
>>67715002
The only "natural law" is the law of the jungle, white boi
>>67712129
>Except guns don't alter your mind and how you perceive reality.
Say that to a robber and the power a gun gives them
>>67715232
>>WAAH I CALLED YOU GAY AND EVEN THO U ARENT GAY IM STILL GOING TO JUST KEEP CRYING WAAAAAAH
Keep crying bitch nigger, because you've got noting else..
>>67715259
>he thinks the catholic church created marriage
Its been a thing longer than that bruh
>>67703635
>literally undebatable
Nobody has a right to aclohol. Nobody has a right to porn. Nobody has a right to drugs, abortions, or marriages.
Don't need to take away rights that don't exist.
>>67715383
>doesnt realize i was making fun of him crying
oh god britsh mudslimes really are the least intelligent people on the planet. Do you have someone who types your sentences for you and ties your shoes? Does your handler know that you probably shouldnt be on here?
>>67714869
>Le 6000 Earth maymay
You clearly have no other evidence that it's older
I will give it to you, you actually showed statistics
Too bad it shows you how much of a shill you are
>>67715518
It's hilarious to anyone with a three digit IQ how desperate you are right now.
>>67713110
>there is no evidence that the fetus is a person
The overwhelming majority of medical doctors, when polled, say that a fetus is a human being beginning either at implantation or segmentation. The only other response which even registers in polls of medical doctors is "I don't know." In case you're not aware, this would mean a fetus is a human being beginning around 3-21 days after fertilization, depending on which doctor you ask.
Pro-abortion activists generally don't even try to claim the fetus is not a human being because they know it's a ridiculous assertion beyond some point of development and anti-science. You could possibly convince a layman that a 4 week old fetus isn't a human being, but good luck convincing anyone but the most zealous pro-abortion activist that a 40 week old fetus is not a human being. They instead redirect to the theoretical consequences of making abortion illegal or legally limited.
>>67715530
>You clearly have no other evidence that it's older
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalrymple/scientific_age_earth.html
http://geomaps.wr.usgs.gov/parks/gtime/ageofearth.html
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_against_a_recent_creation
>>67715232
Well you could use some articles on grammar, but whatever. What are you trying to say defines "personhood," then?
Do you think simple brain activity is enough? If that's the case, then I don't understand what makes "brain function" any more special to you than developing feet or a nose or a heartbeat. Unconscious brain activity serves as a means to (a.) assist the aspects of the physical body you haven't deemed "worthy enough" and (b.) lay the foundation for conscious thought? What would that matter?
>>67703635
>Dont like guns? Dont get one
checkmate
>>67703930
>what is natural law
Come on anon. And besides the whole no laws thing only really matters if we're talking about An-Caps, who have other ways of dealing with that stuff. Hell even minarchist, one step away from anarchists, still want a police force and army. At least most do.
>>67713132
Anyone who helps the pregnant mother when she carries the baby to term is doing so by choice. Any baby slaughtered by their mother in the womb has no choice.
>>67703635
Don't like free speech? Shut your mouth.
>>67715660
>s a human being beginning
A fetus has the same DNA as us, but it is no way shape or form the same as a baby that is born able to think consiously.
Do you know what makes humans so important? Why is it that we cant kill eachother but we can kill animals? Why its our highly advanced brains of course! The human brain is so far beyond any other animal and it gives us so many amazing cognitive abilities.
Guess what the cognitive abilities of an 8 week old fetus are? They arent even CLOSE to being anything relevant.
So unless you want to go around protecting animals that have a higher cognitive funciton than an 8 week old fetus, you are a hypocrite and literally only arguing from MUH FEELS
>>67715719
I know it's older
It's the cuck who doesn't understand
>>67703635
It's half-assed is what it is. Most of that stuff can fall neatly under "pursuit of happiness," with the justification that it doesn't affect anyone except those involved, with the notable exception of abortion.
That being said, nowhere in the actual adopted constitution does it ever guarantee a right to pursue happiness, that was in the declaration of the independence.
The more apt argument is taking a bit from the preamble.
"...form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty ..."
Do we prioritize from the top to the bottom, or do we use abrogation like Muslims?
If we do it muzzy style, it's Liberty > Welfare > Defense > Tranquility > Justice, with Justice being the least important.
Going from top to bottom, it's Justice > Tranquility > Defense > Welfare > Liberty.
So, basically, the real question is do we prioritize Liberty or Justice, and is common welfare more important than Liberty, or more important than Justice? Or do we just shuffle the priorities of the constitution around as needed?
Given that we're not mudshits, I'd say Liberty's at the bottom, which is why you don't have the "Liberty" to drop nukes at random (Threatens Defense, Tranquility, Welfare, Justice.)
That being said, Justice outranks Tranquility so that brings us right back to "Is a fetus a human life? If so, then killing a human life is wrong as it is not Just without mitigating factors." In otherwords, fuckface, it's the same goddamn argument that it has been for 20 years.
>>67709783
Yes, we should outlaw premarital sex, alcohol, drugs, TV, video games, pornography, and block any websites that promote these. Goyim should work 12 hours a day and only have sex for procreation just like God's chosen people want them to.
>>67708263
Don't collect taxpayer funded healthcare when your liver fails from alcoholism, you contract aids, get lung cancer, etc. Your actions will affect someone else otherwise.
>>67715530
>Shill
How, exactly?
>You clearly have no other evidence that it's older.
I'm going to assume you meant the opposite and phrased it improperly considering that was your "gotcha" here. I don't believe the Earth is 6000 years old, and I doubt the majority of Christians believe that.
>>67716082
By this logic, killing humans would be perfectly acceptable if they have Downs Syndrome or worse. Do you believe mothers should be allowed to kill zika-babies (microcephaly)? Because the law certainly does not.
>>67716468
>if they have Downs Syndrome
Depends on how high functioning they are. I have a neighbhour with down syndrome and i see him walking the dog by himself as well as getting on city transit to supposedly go for a job. Someone like him should be allowed to live. Someone who is basically a braindead vegetable should not, and yes the law agreed with me on that.
>>67705887
That was almost english
>>67716082
So now instead of murdering people based on age now you're saying it's okay to murder people based on intelligence levels. That's cute I love arbitrary relativist moral systems
>>67715480
People have a right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, no?
>>67716082
>A fetus has the same DNA as us, but it is no way shape or form the same as a baby that is born able to think consiously
Actually, according to science, they do think consciously. It's a common misconception though, and only was disproven, or at least as much as you can prove/disprove in science, recently.
There are certian things they don't get till later, but all those are things no other species has.
>>67716854
>intelligence levels
it was always that silly.
>arbitrary
its not arbitrary at all. Our cognitive abilities are what give us everything we have in society and what seperates us from literally every other animal. We arent close to being the fastest or the strongest, but we ARE the smartest. THEREFORE, intelligence is EXTREMELY important to human society and civilization
>>67717221
>they do think consciously
prove it.
>>67716626
>Someone like him should be allowed to live
>Someone who is basically a braindead vegetable should not
You left a large gap of possibilities in between. You also incorrect characterized the latter. The law allows that we are not required to maintain life support for someone who is braindead. This is not the same as actively killing someone.
Should a human being with intelligence on par with a dog have a right to life? The law says yes. As such, the standard cannot be intelligence relative to other species. The standard must be that we cannot kill humans under any circumstances except to protect/defend the lives of others or possibly with their consent (euthanasia).
I can't believe there are people on this board who argue against abortion.
How can you possibly think that removing a clump of cells is more harmful than introducing human beings into a household where they aren't taken care of because their parents weren't ready, or worse, put into an adoption center where they'll live miserable lives.
Don't want abortions? Have fun with even more dumb poor niggers walking the streets and bashing your head in you moral objectivists.
>>67703861
/thread
>undebatable
>>67703635
and yet these shills want to take away my 1st and 2nd amendment rights. i'm a libertarian, and am fine with all the things you listed (except abortion that's a different body, not the woman's), but this meme of yours is to say that liberals aren't in favor of taking away plenty of our rights
>>67717332
>as actively killing someone.
removing the fetus from the mother is removing the life support. The fetus uses the mothers body to grow and requires it for sustenance .
>Should a human being with intelligence on par with a dog have a right to life
thats a pretty wide range. Some dogs are extremely intelligent.
>>67717252
No, it's completely arbitrary. It's even more arbitrary based on your line of reasoning, killing people who aren't even born yet because "they're not conscious enough lol". Should we kill people in comas now based on your logic? What if we knew someone was going to be in a 9 month coma and they'd come out of it, is it okay to kill them still because they're not "conscious" of being murdered?
Give me a break. Just admit you set arbitrary lines for when it's acceptable to murder innocent people.
>>67717414
>easy for a clump of cells typing on 4chan to tell other clumps of cells they should be murdered
Just shut up.
>>67706133
No, not moral authority, but moral behavior.
>>67717639
>people in comas now based on your logic?
>i have no idea how the brain works during comotose: the post
you are so beyond retarded its embarrassing. Come back to us when you read up on some basic neuroscience
Here, for you
http://brain.mcmaster.ca/BrainBee/Neuroscience.Science.of.the.Brain.pdf
>>67717287
Here you go:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/
Now, they aren't self aware until later, that isn't fully formed until toddler or sometimes until age 7, but that's something no other species has at all.
>>67717639
It's only murder because you're drawing the line in the sand where a fertilized egg is considered a "human being."
Denying abortion does more harm to society than letting human beings have the choice whether they are able to raise another human being.
You can't see the forest for the trees. You dense motherfucker.
>>67717816
You're the one claiming human fetuses aren't human based on arbitrary consciousness and age lines.
>>67717566
>removing the fetus from the mother is removing the life support
It is killed before it is removed. They are not simply removing a feeding tube. The baby is cut into pieces, then removed.
>thats a pretty wide range. Some dogs are extremely intelligent.
One of, if not the most, intelligent breeds of dog is the border collie. If you admit that a human which is equal in intelligence to a border collie has a right to life, then you admit that intelligence relative to other species cannot be the standard. You contradict your own argument.
>>67717730
What benefit does society from letting any accidental pregnancy, teen pregnancy, or rape pregnancy come to fruition? Why is it okay for you to draw the line in the sand but not us? What makes your morality so bullet proof?
>>67708263
>gay marriage, abortion, sex, drugs, porn, and alcohol do not affect anyone but the individual
gay marriage, abortion, sex, drugs, porn, and alcohol do not affect anyone but the individual
>abortion
> do not affect anyone but the individual
>>67717886
>http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/
> Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester.
i guess theres a reason that abotion isnt allowed after the 3rd trimester then huh ;) did you even read your article?
>>67717566
>removing the fetus from the mother is removing the life support. The fetus uses the mothers body to grow and requires it for sustenance
So then abortions should be illegal after a baby is supposed to survive outside of the womb?
Then, since this will most likely be possible in the future, and in fact is technically possible now, a baby which is not relying on the mother for life, like test tube babies, can't be killed.
Or is relying on any support at all grounds for killing? Because if so, I'm going to go kill all the people in the welfare line.
>>67718228
Jesus christ, leafs are btfoing Americans who'd rather have their country overrun with more shitty homes and people because "muh clump."
>>67718081
>hen you admit that intelligence relative to other species cannot be the standard
That literally doesnt make sense.
>>67717928
>arbitrary consciousness
Literally the only important thing about humans is our consciousness. Its the ONLY thing we have that seperates us from all the other animals and its why you are even typing to me right now
>>67704502
>bait or christ fag.
>>67704809
>/pol/ can be a place for intelligent discussion
>reply to the same shitty bait thread for the 10,375th time
Choose one and only one.
>>67710871
>aborting aka killing a baby dont affect anyone
yeah that's true. It doesn't affect anybody but the woman choosing to do it. are you fucking dense?
>>67718417
>Only human beings have consciousness
Complete and utter retard detected. We have ADVANCED consciousness.
>>67718135
I pretty much draw the line at not murdering innocent people :^)
>>67718546
>Only human beings have consciousness
notice i said OUR consciousness you retard, i didnt even imply we are the only ones with consciousness.
>>67703635
OP speaks absolute truth, anybody that disagrees is a degenerate
>>67718542
Except for the fucking human being you kill because they're not old enough to have a say
>>67718542
It affects her in a positive way by not constraining her to a huge responsibility that could easily be fucked up.
It positively affects the "human being" by not letting them come to fruition, and thus be exposed to a harmful world and unprepared parents, and they'll just end up as another poor stupid bastard like these pro-life people
>>67703635
I bet the person who wrote this would tell me I can't have guns
>>67718756
>we should kill people for their own good
Are you fucking serious right now? Why are liberals mentally retarded?
>>67718417
>Do you know what makes humans so important? Why is it that we cant kill eachother but we can kill animals? Why its our highly advanced brains of course! The human brain is so far beyond any other animal and it gives us so many amazing cognitive abilities.
If you admit that a human which is equal in intelligence to a border collie has a right to life, then you admit that intelligence relative to other species cannot be the standard.
>That literally doesnt make sense.
You're the one who suggested the standard of cognitive abilities relative to other species. Now you admit that cannot be the standard, as you claim humans with cognitive abilities equal to another animal (the most intelligent dogs, border collies) have a right to life.
>>67718879
Not a liberal, and not a moral objectivist like you who can't see how preventing abortion causes more harm than good.
You're hung up on your own moral code, and are desperately trying to dig yourself out of a position with false equivalency.
You're basically a dirty rotten utopiast who'd rather have people bend to your biased will than give actual societal benefit a chance.
>>67718228
I did. But consider this:
Science considers fetus to be alive and human from the moment of conception because, if they aren't killed by outside forces like abortion, they will become a human. Here we must also apply that to consciousness. We don't kill babies after the third trimester because they have the ability, if left unaffected by outside forces, to develop consciousness. But this does not actually begin there. Those cells which allow that are hard coded into the dna, that means from the moment of conception, the DNA will begin developing the things to needed support this consciousness. You can't build a house before making the foundation first after all. You are setting an arbitrary point, when in fact the entirety of the process is building up to allow for consciousness. Those ceels, protiens and the like would be useless with out the rest of the body. It's not indivual single celled organisims, they are codependent and you are commiting a grave fallacy by seperating one part of the body and putting it in higher regard when it in fact can't function with out the rest. Your limits have no basis in science, and the fact that you argue that they do demonstrates either severe delusion or willful ignorance.
>>67718716
It's a clump of tissue that faintly resembles characteristics of a human being. This does not equal a human being.
By your logic a wet dream is a massacre and a crime against humanity since every sperm is 1/2 of a zygote and 1/2*(250 million sperm released in an ejaculation[average]) = 125 million 'people' killed per instance of nocturnal emission
>idiocy
>>67719327
>Is vs becomes
>>67719327
No friend, science agrees: life begins at conception.
The only idiot here is you.
https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
>>67703861
>Don't like nuclear war? Don't press the button.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoRyrCjOkdI
>Not pushing the button
>>67711579
Drug addiction affects the family and friends of those affected
>>67719327
BTFO
When pro-lifers draw a line in a sand, it just takes a post like this to show you how we can do it to. These guys complain about where do we draw the line, when that's all they're doing, and they don't even care about the harmful effects that unplanned parenthood can have on the CHILD, the parents, and society at large
>>67719128
Then just admit you have arbitrary standards for who gets murdered. You people are so fucked up it's crazy. Really the person who should have been aborted first under your regime is you.
>>67719044
>If you admit that a human which is equal in intelligence to a border collie has a right to life, then you admit that intelligence relative to other species cannot be the standard.
Those 2 sentences are non sequetors. I dont even understand what you are trying to say.
>Now you admit that cannot be the standard,
no
>have a right to life.
i never said that silly
>>67719128
>preventing abortion causes more harm than good
[Citation needed]
Let's talk about how legalized abortion does more harm than good instead. This was written by liberals, by the way. http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/1996/08/childrenfamilies-akerlof
I'd like to hear how more children raised by single mothers benefits society.
>>67719540
>When pro-lifers draw a line in a sand
Actually the scienctist draw the line in the sand. But what do they know, they've only studied it for there entire career and are educated in the subject.
>>67719728
>Actually the scienctist draw the line in the sand
There is a reason most scientists are pro choice silly
>>67719571
Wait, are you agreeing with me? Because single mothers with children and orphans are more likely to experience depression, suicide, and get involved with crime.
What the fuck are you smoking
>>67703635
In other words:
Mind your own fucking business while we run the world into the ground.
No, thanks.
>>67719878
implying you care about anyone other than yourself
nice try
>>67719484
yeah "life" begins at conception but a "human being" does NOT begin at conception.
It is immoral to end the life of a human being but nobody has any qualms about ending "life", we all kill life, carnivores who kill animals and vegans who kill plants.
Nobody sees anything wrong with killing bacteria, we kill millions of them a day
>your argument sucks
>>67703635
Don't like OP? Don't let it live.
>>67719728
Most scientists are pro-choice, and just because a handful of them are pro-life doesn't mean they're correct.
Also, not all scientists agree on everything, how fucking retarded are you? You're pulling excuses out of your ass.
>>67719796
Oh, so know you know more than biologists huh?
Heres a quote from the esteemed Dr. Robert george in his wonderful boom entitled embryos:
“That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George
“Human embryos, whether they are formed by fertilization (natural or in vitro) or by successful somatic-cell nuclear transfer (SCNT — i.e., cloning), do have the internal resources and active disposition to develop themselves to the mature stage of a human organism, requiring only a suitable environment and nutrition. In fact, scientists distinguish embryos from other cells or clusters of cells precisely by their self-directed, integral functioning — their organismal behavior. Thus, human embryos are what the embryology textbooks say they are, namely, human organisms — living individuals of the human species — at the earliest developmental stage.”
Oh also a ton of quote in the link posted here
>>67719484
>>67719796
You mean the scientists who aren't actually experts in babies and fetuses? Or are you referring to the abortion doctors who laugh when the fetus squirms as it's ripped apart?
>>67720111
>look at me i cherry picked 2 scientists even though the VAST MAJORITY OF THEM including the world leading evolutionary biologist dont agree with me
Cherrypicking wont change the fact you are wrong
>>67720111
The doctor is only esteemed in your eyes because he agrees with you.
Dirty no good cherry picker you are.
>>67712859
People should be allowed to have incest babies. I wouldn't recommend it though, you'll have to care for you retard spawn without help from the state.
>>67703635
>Don't like necrophilia, don't have sex with corpses
>>67708263
>>67711443
Gay marriage affects everybody because it ruins the society we grow up in.
Same with abortion except it also affects the baby who ended up getting killed because his/her parents forgot to use condoms.
Both are extremely selfish.
Also, suicide affects less people than abortion or gay marriage would. But I like how you guys forgot to elaborate on that one. Doesn't fit your leftist narrative, hey?
>>67713757
>>i literally have no idea
>>67713942
>>i have literally no idea
Oh wow, this guy is actually retarded. Appears to be suffering from early signs of dementia.
>>67720292
as someone who happens to be an incest baby, no , it is the right of every person to not be born an incest baby when its so easy to prevent. No one should have to go through what i went through
>>67703635
Don't like gay marriage?
I WANT YOU AND ONLY YOU TO MAKE MY CAKES YOU SHITLORD HOW DARE YOU
>>67719977
>now the pro-abortion person equates babies to bacteria
>>67720365
Would you rather not be alive?
>>67720414
Why is it impossible to have gay marriage and not force pastors to sanctify it? Why do you guys insist on one or the other like liberals.
>>67720330
>stralia comes in 2 hours late and tries his hand at some of the worst shitposting iv ever seen
Cant even give you a 0/10 for that post. Apply yourself.
>>67720104
>>Is taught in universty level embryology and biology textbooks
>>is almost universally agreed upon by biologists
>NUH UH, IT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE I SAY SO!
>>67719977
Science doesn't distinguish from a human and a "human being"
You're pulling psudoe-scince bullshit now. Life begins at conception. When comcpetion occurs it a human life. If you end it, you have ended a human life, commited homocide.
Whether or not you agree with the facts doesn't change them
>>67720247
>look at me try to justify murdering babies
>I'm so cool
>>67720508
sometimes yes. I was extremely suicidal for most of my teenage years.
I shouldnt be alive, but not that i am its too late.
>>67720292
I disagree. It is pretty much inevitable at his point that degenerates shall be shielded from the negative effects of their decisions by the sate. In a regime whereby the state is a non actor sure, but that's a pipe dream under democracy.
>>67719567
You claimed the cognitive ability of humans being above that of other species was the reason we cannot kill humans.
I asked, "do you believe mothers should be allowed to kill zika-babies (microcephaly) [or Downs Syndrome]?" You responded, "depends on how high functioning they are."
I asked, "should a human being with intelligence on par with a dog have a right to life?" You responded, "thats a pretty wide range. Some dogs are extremely intelligent."
Your response implies that you believe humans with a consciousness on par with the most intelligent breeds of dogs have a right to life. Otherwise, you would not reasonable raise the issue of the varying intelligence of dogs. I could go even further and use the standard of Koko, the gorilla. It is believed Koko has an intelligence equal to humans with an IQ between 70 and 95. Koko is not a human. Koko is not of the same species.
To claim the cognitive abilities of humans relative to animals is why we cannot kill humans, yet at the same time to claim humans with cognitive abilities on par with other species should be protected by murder laws is a direct contradiction. You can feign ignorance or misunderstanding, but your argument has fallen apart in its entirety.
>>67720580
>babies
underdeveloped fetus*
>>I'm so cool
im cool like a fool in a swimming pool maaaan.
>>67703635
>any of those
>rights
Please
You can sort of make an argument for drugs alcohol and sex
Maybe even porn
Sort of
The other two are not rights whatsoever
>>67703635
>marriage
>abortion
>sex
>drugs
>porn
>"""""""""""""""rights"""""""""""""""
>>67720247
>2 scienctist.
Yeah, you didn't read the second link, because it has way more than two. If you aren't going to even look at the evidence, why should I engage in a dialouge with you? You're simply going to refuse anything that doesn't back up your preconceived notions, you don't want to learn, you want to be right.
You don't care about the truth unless it helps you be right. That's sickening.
>>67720540
Alright then, murder is okay under certain circumstances: clumps of baby cells before the third term and certain self defense cases.
Is that what you wanted to hear? At this point we're arguing semantics, and you care more about being right than what's good for humans, society, or the very """""""child""""""" you're so adamantly defending.
>>67720704
>babies based on age are good to go for killing :^)
just admit you don't mind killing babies because you have no real moral system and why you can't justify why someone shouldn't just kill you because you're "inconvenient" or "cost people money"
>>67720700
>To claim the cognitive abilities of humans relative to animals is why we cannot kill humans, yet at the same time to claim humans with cognitive abilities on par with other species should be protected by murder laws is a direct contradiction.
Those are not contradictions. Im sorry you spent so long typing out a long ass reply when its really not that hard to understand.
There are VERY FEW DOGS in the world that are as intelligent as humans. They are the exception, not the rule. When i was talking about being way smarter than other animals i meant the GENERAL intelligence level of that species. Im so terribly embarrassed for you.
God aborts fetuses all the time (miscarriages) so it must be OK.
Checkmate theists.
>>67720884
>>babies based on age
>i have no idea how biology works and why a fetus is different from a baby that is born: the post
Do you think a tree and a seed are the sane thing?
>Don't like abortions?
>Good, they can pay for it. Not you.
Fixed.
>>67720942
People die all the time, so murder must be OK.
Meck Chate
>>67703635
>implying rights aren't purchased with blood
death to liberals
>>67720638
If you do not wish to be, then you can end your life. If you wish to have never been, then what makes your case in particular special? Should a person with genetic defects also not be allowed to reproduce?
I understand that incest is morally deplorable, but it's not the state's job to determine morality.
>>67720669
I disagree. If you let the state protect degenerates from themselves, then you ensure that they reproduce and create more degenerates. Also, you imply that the state has the right to your life and body, to which I believe that the individual has the right to destroy both.
>>67720997
A seed that has taken root and otherwise on the way to being an adult tree is a tree.
You cannot possibly say a human fetus is not a human. Not ever. Again, you're just drawing arbitrary lines because you have no real reason for justifying murdering babies outside of "muh convenience and cost on society". This is why you make such ridiculous arguments because you're too scared to outright say that you're fine with killing people based on age.
>Literally undebatable.
As opposed to being figuratively undebatable?
>>67719836
If you actually read what I linked, the paper discusses the social ramifications of legalized abortion and how it has increased the prevalence of single mothers by removing responsibility from fathers.
I am not agreeing with you. You claimed that PREVENTING abortion does more harm than good. I asked for a citation. I also provided my own which discusses one way in which LEGAL abortion does more harm than good.
>>67703635
>Gay marriage
It devalues marriage and fag culture is pretty degenerate. They are more likely to transfer STDs and are annoying.
>Abortion
Keeps minorities in check. Besides that, you're taking rights and value away from the fetus. It does affect someone else....the fetus being killed. Increased number of abortions has also translated into way more child abuse since it devalues the mother-child bond.
Who doesn't like sex?
>Don't like drugs? Don't do them
Drugs should be legalized. But that is a shit argument and a half.
Many of those aren't even rights and the logic is retarded. With that logic, you can do anything that is bad....as long as you're doing it in privacy.
See >>67703861
>>67720258
No. George is currently (December, 2015) of counsel to the law firm of Robinson & McElwee PLLC in Charleston, West Virginia.
George served from 1993-1998 as a presidential appointee to the United States Commission on Civil Rights, and from 2002-2009 as a member of the President's Council on Bioethics. George was appointed to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom by the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives in 2012, and in the following year was elected to its Chair.
He is a former Judicial Fellow at the Supreme Court of the United States, receiving during his tenure there the Justice Tom C. Clark Award. He has served on UNESCO’s World Commission on the Ethics of Scientific Knowledge and Technology (COMEST), of which he remains a corresponding member. He is a member of the boards of the Ethics and Public Policy Center (where he is Vice-Chairman of the Board), the American Enterprise Institute, the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, and other organizations. George is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.
George has served or serves on the editorial boards of Touchstone and Public Discourse magazines, as well as several academic journals.
And that's just from the "Other professional and public service activities" section of his wikipedia page.
>>67703635
>Don't like abortions? Don't get one.
>...
>Don't like your rights taken away?
>Don't take away someone else's.
Okay.
Sounds fine.
>>67721217
>then you can end your life
I almost did. Im going to make the best of my life and make sure that i help other people as much as possible to make up for the fact i shouldnt be allowed.
>Should a person with genetic defects also not be allowed to reproduce?
Depends on how bad the genetic defect is, but in general yes.
> but it's not the state's job to determine morality.
i would disagree. I would hope the state would base their laws on what is morally right and not what they are just paid to do.
>>67721288
How does an abortion create single mothers? You can't be a single mother if you never concieved a child, dimbus.
>>67721274
>on the way to being
just like a fetus is on the way to being a baby.
You cant charge someone for theft of your car if they stole the tires that you were using when you were building it in the garage. Its the same fucking thing.
You cannot say something is the same as something else just because it WILL be one day. Yes, it WILL be, but at the moment its NOT the same thing. its pretty fucking easy to understand.
One day you will be dead. All humans are on their way to death. Does that mean we are dead right now? nope
>>67721398
That's the problem though. Once you give the state the right to legislate morality they are able to create laws that don't align with you morally.
In other words, how can the state determine what is morally right?
>>67720858
>Alright then, murder is okay under certain circumstances: clumps of baby cells before the third term
Under what ethical system?
Christian? Nope
Aristolian? Not at all.
Kantian? Nope, that would definitely violate the formula of universal law
Utiltiranisim? Maybe, but that's the worst one, and would only be a case by case basis
Egoism? Nope because that basically says fuck morals.
>>67721549
Jesus these leafs are on fire. How much more can these pro-lifers get BTFO?
>>67720488
>equates babies to bacteria
why are you misrepresenting what I said? This just shows that you have a weak basis for your argument.
I did not "equate" "babies" and bacteria.
An embryo is not a "baby", and I didn't equate human embryos with bacteria but compared them because they're both life and just merely saying, "life begins at conception and killing life is bad m'kay" is stupid, because obviously in nature there is absolutely nothing wrong with killing life.
>>67721640
>how can the state determine what is morally right?
Its the job of the voters to elect people that can be trusted to determine whats right and wrong using logic reason empathy and compassion.
>>67721666
your post reminded me of this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqLHE_wJhUQ
>>67720247
The vast majority of scientists who deal in human medicine put the time at which someone becomes a human being between 3 and 21 days after fertilization, i.e. either after implantation or after potential segmentation. This is supported by polls of medical doctors. The embryonic stage of development comes later, starting around the 5th week.
You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
>>67721648
Then ultimately we can't draw a line in the sand, because all of those systems are flawed and biased perceptions of how to live life. We can only pretend that we know what's the best for society when all we have is faith.
Have some goddamn humility, objective morality never works out.
>>67721549
>just like a fetus is on the way to being a baby.
No, because you're trying to say fetuses aren't human, which they are.
>>67721217
>I disagree. If you let the state protect degenerates from themselves, then you ensure that they reproduce and create more degenerates. Also, you imply that the state has the right to your life and body, to which I believe that the individual has the right to destroy both.
No I am not. I'm simple stating the simple truth (at least how I see it) whereby if you have state programmes where everyone is paying in, then suddenly the individual action of degenerates that would normally just be them become the problem of society. Let me give you our example. We're rapidly approaching as a country American rates of obesity. A large part of this is due to the NHS, who provide a safety net. If that safety net was not there then it would be up to the individual to look after their own livelihood and health. As it is you have people who are "free" to kill themselves with junk food and that liver or heart transplant is offloaded onto society at large.
>>67721816
>all of these claims and literally no sources
lets see these polls then. Hmm? Where are they.
>>67721966
A fetus is on its way to being a baby. There is no getting around this
>>67721812
> Using logic and emotions
You do know that leads to paradoxical outcomes, right? And what is logical, is it the greater good? And what is empathetic, is it whatever is empathizing with your emotions? Are you saying that all logic and all emotion is valid? When is logic and emotion invalid? Is it defined by your personal moral code?
>>67721743
>we don't feel bad about killing bacteria so why should we care about fetuses
>>67720888
On one hand, you claim that the general intelligence of humans relative to other species is the reason we cannot murder each other. On the other hand, you claim the specific intelligence of specific humans is justification for murdering them, despite the fact there are specific animals which are more intelligent. You cannot have it both ways. How you cannot see this is a contradiction is beyond me. It's quite sad, really.
>>67722114
>You do know that leads to paradoxical outcomes, right?
No thats why you use a combination of ALL of them. If you are truly logical then you understand that humans are not logical and therefore you have to take into account their emotions too.
> Are you saying that all logic and all emotion is valid?
>strawmanning this hard
You know i honestly thought you were going to have a decent conversation with me but i see you are just going to keep strawmanning all of my posts so i guess il go back to playing gears of war. TA TA
>>67721427
>How does an abortion create single mothers? You can't be a single mother if you never concieved a child, dimbus.
>If you actually read what I linked, the paper discusses the social ramifications of legalized abortion and how it has increased the prevalence of single mothers by removing responsibility from fathers.
Please, you're embarrassing yourself.
>>67721812
>Its the job of the voters to elect people that can be trusted to determine whats right and wrong using logic reason empathy and compassion.
So if logic reason empathy and compassion led those leader to the conclusion that you and only you must die in the most painful way you can imagine, you'd be ok with it
>mfw when leafs don't consider the formula of universal constants
>>67721901
So then, if we can not objectivley determine morality, how do you expect us to objectivly determine what is right for the human species?
Your saying that abortion is good for the species, yet this implies that we should care about the human species, which I would argue is a spook
>>67722094
>a fetus is a human, no matter how much you lie about it
>>67722027
That is a great argument against public healthcare. Not only does it limit financial freedom, but you eventually have to limit personal freedom in order for it work properly for everyone.
>>67722435
>in the most painful way
> empathy and compassion
literal autist who doesnt understand empathy and compassion detected
>>67722466
its time to stop posting. A fetus has the same DNA as humans but that literally doesnt matter at all. A nigger who is a child rapist has the same DNA as you.
>>67722183
exactly. neither are human beings.
>>67722372
>Pro lifer who plays gears of war
O IM LAFFIN
But you didn't respond to any of my questions of how does one determine the extent of "value" in logic and value in emotion. I'm not strawmanning you;you said we had to elect leaders that base their decisions on logic, reason, and empathy, and my questiond pertained to whether one can define the valuable extent of logic, reason, and empathy.
You think you know where to draw the line in the sand, but it's because of your bias, which you wont admit to. Have some humility and just admit that you could be wrong.
>>67710524
see now I have a problem with gay marriage, simply because its just too easy for two pedophiles to marry each other and adopt children, and as long as there's nothing more than subtle hints and no facts, people won't do anything for fear of being fired over homophobia, or will write it off as "oh well its new and strange, of course it would make me feel uneasy!"
>>67722470
>Not only does it limit financial freedom, but you eventually have to limit personal freedom in order for it work properly for everyone.
Exactly. Right now our government is trying to tax sugary drinks because of the diabetes risk. The government are involved with this rather than individuals who die or pay more from treatment because with the NHS what others do become our problem through tax. It's a recipe for no-fun-allowed totalitarianism in the end.
>>67722470
In the preamble Liberty is listed after common welfare and tranquility of the people, so it stands to reason that considerations on common good should trump considerations of liberty. Just saying. Unless we're using muzzy abrogation or arbitrary structuring.
>>67722811
Answer the question. Let's say that your death in that manner is the only thing that will prevent all humans from being killed in that manner.
Would you be willong to die in the most painful way possible then?
>>67722094
>lets see these polls then. Hmm? Where are they.
Here you go. Over 1000 OB/GYNs polled. 57% said conception. 28% said implantation. The rest were unsure. You can claim there is disagreement among medical professionals as to when a fetus becomes human. You cannot claim the argument is outside of the first weeks of pregnancy. 85% clearly put it within the first week.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-when-does-pregnancy-begin-idUSTRE7AG24B20111117
>>67722811
>A nigger who is a child rapist has the same DNA as you.
What kind of non-argument is this? You outright refuse to say fetuses are humans because of cognitive dissonance. You give non-arguments because you can't confront the fact that you are willing to murder people simple based on age. This, of course, is because you're dishonest.
>>67723076
>fetuses become human
This is an arbitrary distinction that we use because there isn't a better word for "humans in the womb". The use of the word fetus is to dehumanize.
>>67722867
>Pro lifer
iv never said anything pro life ITT so far.
Are you just pretending to be retarded? I didnt read the rest of your post because im assuming it was retarded as your first sentence. Im extremely pro abortion
>>67723020
>Would you be willong to die in the most painful way possible then?
If somehow that EXTREMELY unlikely scenario was true, i would have no problem with it because it would be saving people i care about.
>>67723076
0/10
saying when human life begins and being pro or anti abortion are extremely different. As someone pointed out, BACTERIA is life, that doesnt fucking matter.
Show me a poll on them being pro or anti choice of fuck off.
>>67723079
>fetuses are humans
Iv never once said they arent human. They are the same species as us, but thats it.
>>67715281
>power it gives them
>actual chemical differences in the brain caused by drugs
stop
>>67723404
Keep moving the goalposts, loser.
>>67723404
>If somehow that EXTREMELY unlikely scenario was true, i would have no problem with it because it would be saving people i care about.
Ok, well at least you possess good will.
You still are using humans as a means though, which is immoral.
>>67723541
im not moving goalposts at all silly.
This entire debate is about people being pro choice or being pro life. Obviously if most scientists are pro choice then they agree with me that its fine
>>67723663
>You still are using humans as a means though
what
>>67723404
>Iv never once said they arent human. They are the same species as us, but thats it.
So you admit you don't mind killing humans based on age.
