Holy fuck this ride never ends
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-16/fed-scales-back-rate-rise-forecasts-as-global-outlook-weakens
>8 years of 0% interest rate
>Europe about to start charging you money just to have a bank account
How can people pretend the economy is doing well?
>>67678468
idk
most people aren't paying attention
the world economy has been on life support since 2008
>>67678468
It means only one thing, the same one as in Europe.
Without these low interest rates, there would be deflation
Why is deflation bad?
>>67678729
Does QE stand for "quantitative easing"?
In that case our economy is literally doomed and the second they stop printing money/hyperinflation happens its gg worldwide.
>>67678995
>the second they stop printing money/hyperinflation happens
The opposite would happen actually
it's entirely caused by obama.
Obama wants to tax corporate profits earned overseas at a very high rate, like 40%. Corporations don't want to pay that tax, so they don't bring the money home.
This has a deflationary effect.
>>67679076
>the economy will get stronger if our currency becomes completely worthless
- t. mehmet with high school economics
They've exhausted all interventionist policies. Time for the steep drop on this roller coaster called the world economy!
>>67679176
kek
dicussion of economics in /pol/ is always funny and cringe inducing
never change /pol/
>>67679305
>Deflation
>Currency becomes worthless
Wew Austria.
>>67678974
>what is lack of demand
>>67679305
no, what the frog is saying is that hyperinflation wouldnt happen.
which he's right.
the deflationary spiral would just become even more obvious and assumedly disastrous
ie:No hyperinflation, but "hyper"deflation
>>67678468
>charging you money just to have a bank account
Most banks do anyway, they just "waive" the fees if you hold a certain balance. Which is still outrageous, considering how they massively expand credit for free off your deposits. The only time a bank is justified in charging a fee is under full-reserve banking, but that's not going to happen in the foreseeable future.
>>67679653
Portugal gets it
>>67679176
KEK
>>67679419
yeah that post was hilarious
I just feel bad for whatever moron thinks like that
>>67679500
>money printing stops
>economy collapses
>fiat currency collapses
Either way it will result in money becoming more useful as a means to heat your home than to buy stuff with it.
Quantitative easing is just the slower of the two deaths, but its bust will be much bigger than if we didn't do QE in the first place.
>>67679653
>negative interest rates
>printing money to combat deflation
come again?
>>67678974
It isn't, its just bad for governments who have borrowed to much
>spent too much?
>just steal all of the goys purchasing power
don't be a fiatcuck
>>67679664
I meant negative interest rates not just fees
>>67679768
>muh gold
pls no
>>67678468
Fake Statistics, Fake Stats.
>>66781342
>>66781342
>>67678468
>/pol/ talking about monetary policy
This should be interesting. Protip: low rates aren't because of central banks. If you don't understand this point you shouldn't be talking about monetary policy
>>67679653
>deflationary spiral
Isn't a real thing, contrary to what the central bankers would desperately have you believe.
Deflation is a market correction for unwarranted inflation. It is symptom of the economy becoming more stable.
>>67680850
>Protip: low rates aren't because of central banks
Let me guess, the Jews?
>>67680287
K
>>67680850
>low rates aren't because of central banks
Kurgman pls
>>67678468
the former UK bank chairman/governor/overlord thinks low interest rates is bad:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03lqvjf
>Eight years after the financial meltdown which rocked global capitalism, the foundations of the world economy seems disturbingly fragile. Hardtalk speaks to the renowned economist and former Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King or Lord King. He was a key player in efforts to save the banking system from collapse in the dark days of 2008. Why does he believe another crisis is looming?
We were warned.
>>67680986
>central bank
>not jews
>>67680850
>implying the central bank doesn't have significant power over the prime rage by controlling the federal funds target rate
>>67678917
No. It means you gotta pray to your animal spirits, fucker.
Better start praying.
>>67681042
>save the banking system from collapse
In other words he bailed out the jew bankers that crashed the system with sub prime mortgages.
Fuck him
>>67678468
>How can people pretend the economy is doing well?
Stop peddling fiction.
>>67678468
>>8 years of 0% interest rate
Retard doesn't realize the Fed just raised rates in December.
>>67678729
>most people aren't paying attention
Correct answer. The election cycle will continue to distract public attention, and this will make for an excellent opportunity to conduct financial shenanigans that otherwise would be too gruesome to get away with.
>>67681461
If you got time listen to it. He brings up a lot of points why low interest rates are a bad thing long term and that negative rates (which is becoming commonplace in the EU) is a bad idea.
>>67678468
if they raised rates there would be massive default and the banks would lose BIG.
>>67682299
>0.25% increase
Shit just got real!
>>67678974
>>67679768
deflation makes it hard to pay back loans, everyone would default.
>>67682985
Those loans are made from imaginary money in the first place.
>>67682731
>The election
I wonder if it will blow up before or after the election. It would kinda suck if Trump wins and the ignorant plebs blame everything in him and then he only get 4 years.
There is a video of Trump talking about this saying that he hope it won't explode the next term.
>>67682796
>banks would lose BIG
OYYY
>>67683713
It's getting harder to call that one as things get increasingly chaotic. A few months ago, I thought maybe they'd pull the plug before the election only as a last measure to pre-stump Trump. But I'm getting the feeling there is such a pro-Trump insurrection that "they" might not be able to coordinate a real plug-pulling event, and that it'd be more likely the world just gets set on fire on the way to the election if that's what it comes down to.
That would comport with what I'd been hearing over a year ago about the major alternative plan to Hillary being a sufficient state of emergency to suspend the elections entirely and keep Obama in, crazy as that might sound.
But I would not be surprised if we just keep bumping along for another year so as to retain the playing card of dumping the system as a way of holding power over whoever wins the election.
>>67679768
>It isn't, its just bad for governments who have borrowed to much
Deflation, by definition, means that any money you have in your pocket will be worth more tomorrow than it is today. That discourages the consumption of goods/services, because if you save it and buy later you'll get more for your buck. That discourages investment in businesses, because if you save it and invest later you'll get more for your buck. That discourages any sort of private loans (like the ones people use to buy homes, cars, or get STEM degrees), because the real value of the debt is always increasing.
Deflation really is devastating. It encourages the economy to shut the fuck down. It encourages people to stop buying, it encourages people to stop opening businesses, it encourages people to abandon higher education and be a nation of burger flippers. There's basically no part of deflation that isn't complete ass.
As a general rule, it should never be rational to hold onto actual currency. It's better for the economy if people "save" money by investing it, not by stuffing it in their mattress. When people stop investing and start mattress-stuffing, the jobs fucking disappear.
>>67680958
>deflationary spiral
>Isn't a real thing
Tell that to Japan
>>67684532
I have no money to invest. Wat do?
>>67684887
Then you weren't going to be employing anyone anyway, so you're not particularly relevant to the example.
>>67684887
Skills, connections, possessions, avoid getting into too much debt. Simple things like if you need dental work go ahead and get that done while the getting is good.
>>67685057
>Simple things like if you need dental work go ahead and get that done while the getting is good.
I got that covered
>people trying to promote spending borrowed money
What a surprise. I can't even tell the difference between /pol/ and leftist jew rats.
Keynesian globalist fucks.
I am waiting for all the Yurpoors to take their money out of the bank and stuff it under their mattresses. Then the immigrants get wind of this and begin breaking into houses on a massive scale.
The hangings will be fun to watch.
>>67685236
First aid kit's not a bad idea. Once upon a time it was a shot of whiskey and biting down on a bullet to endure the pain. I can tell you from first hand experience that alcohol does work if that's all you've got. But some OTC painkillers might be nice to have around if you're planning on yanking teeth with a vice grip.
>>67684532
>That discourages the consumption of goods/services
Is that why people never buy new cars or smartphones, because if they save their money and buy later, they'll get a newer and better product?
https://mises.org/library/deflationary-spiral-bogey
>>67686313
I don't buy a new car because my old one is well-made, works good, I have parts and tools, and it's reliable and easy to work on. I don't buy a new one because they're expensive as fuck, they suck, they suck to maintain, and they're full of bullshit I don't want.
Same with phones. I'm perfectly happy with my old landline, and in fact I'd rather have an old AT&T job with a carbon microphone, a 300Hz-3kHz filter, and a nice ergonomic whatever you call it that you can easily crutch on your shoulder while you're talking, just as long as it's touch-tone. I'm much happier without an idiotphone or a fagbook.
>>67686923
And you are not representative of the market at large. New cars sell like hotcakes. So do new phones, every single time they come out. Deflationary spiral proponents suggest that this phenomenon shouldn't happen.
>>67685606
>I can tell you from first hand experience that alcohol does work if that's all you've got
ofc, just drink yourself shitfaced and have some one else do it.
Or you can just man up and do it yourself. Like this guy
2:40 if you don't want to watch it all (you dont)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIvsVxu1uvs
>>67687388
That's how we got the point of meming about an "obamaphone."
Financial ideology is not what's going on here. What's going on here is more like a religion (perhaps even a Judaic one if you go down the rabbit hole -- that one goes a bit too deep for me.) The point of the new cars and the new phones is to get people strapped in for transhumanism. The economic effects of having people spend their fake kited money on it is just a beneficial side-effect to keep the whole engine going that manufactures the transhumanism.
>>67687674
I don't even want to watch 2:40. To be honest I would guzzle cough syrup before even watching that. DXM is an effective dissociative anesthetic.
>>67688328
>DXM is an effective dissociative anesthetic.
So is 10 years of gore threads on /b/
>>67688604
I have vintage crushcat videos and all the rest, but some things just still trigger me. I can't deal with spiders either. I literally drank myself into a hangover last time I had to smack one.
>>67678995
At this point, I would call it quantitive eternity.
>>67678468
DUDE OBAMA SAVED US LMAO
>>67689029
Why would you want to smack spiderbro though? They are based as fuck, don't make any noise at all and they terminate all pesky flying blood sucking window shitting pests out there.
>>67689278
STOP
PEDDLING
FICTION
Everything is fine, go shopping.
I was going to try to write out how I don't think you guys realize how many moving pieces are going on in the economy to fail.
But it's all there. We have negative rates in Europe, could see that here easily. Think about the consequences of a government buying corporate debt, since that's currently happening in the EU.
>>67689433
I tried that once and all that happened is my house got full of spiders, there was no decrease in other pests, and then I had to clean up all the cobwebs and dead spiders who put their webs in stupid places and died because they never caught anything.
And then there are the spiders that bite you in your sleep. OK, fine, maybe once you wake up with a bite on your leg. It becomes a very different matter when you wake up and you realize one of those motherfuckers was crawling on your face because there's a bite next to your eye. Or when you wake up and it occurs to you one of those bastards was up in your underwear in order to bite you right next to somewhere you definitely don't want to get a spider bite on.
Spiders in the house: not even once.
>>67687388
No one actually brought up a deflationary spiral. Whether or not deflation is capable of causing and sustaining itself because of the damage it causes is irrelevant. The argument is much narrower - that demand and unemployment will be lower with deflation than without it, because that is how rational actors would behave.
Your rebuttal is "b-b-but luxury items!" So fucking what? Did you know that for half the price, you can buy a smartphone that does every-single-fucking-thing an iPhone does plus more? And yet people still buy iPhones, at all, ever. How the fuck does that work? People buy luxury items because they are shiny and they want them. They are very specifically some of the least "rational" transactions in the economy, because they are entirely motivated by subjective human impulses.
But investment decisions are cold and rational. The goal is to take a pile of money and turn it into an even bigger pile of money - as big a pile as possible. When you have deflation happening in the background, the opportunity cost of investing goes up (because the currency you're giving away is going up in value instead of down) - and that means in turn for it to be rational to pursue an investment opportunity that opportunity needs to be profitable than it would have otherwise been (because simply holding onto that money is more valuable than it would have otherwise been).
>>67689829
Hedge apples
>>67679305
Dude watch what happens when an economy gets overheated. See Japan for the last 30 years. Deflation will happen in the US which will make the currency "stronger" not "worthless" the problem is that getting out of a deflationary cycle is hard as fuck, Japan was on one (arguably still is) for over 20 years.
>>67678468
Were fucked nigga.
You can't raise interest rates so easily with a large deficit and low inflation like we have.
All this while other regions are lowering rates and buying bonds like never before.
Basically were fucked.
>>67690036
>investment decisions are cold and rational
Which will precipitate investors into accepting less risk, and putting their money toward more certain investments. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
>>67690380
Maybe balancing the federal budget / having a surplus while melting away government debt is the best course of action.
Would probably lead to unsustainable levels of high inflation though.
>>67679756
QE gives those in charge more time to rake in all the money before it collapses. That's why the worth of the dollar has been slowly degrading, as well as 90% of my nations money being in the hands of a tenth of a percent of the population.
>>67678468
that curve looks like they're running one big experiment.
PERPETUAL DEBT
Fed is owned by private fucking stockholders that makes bank off of the interest rate on our debt
>>67690663
oldfag here. I remember my dad loading up on a bunch of 10 year CDs in 1981-1982. They paid 15-18 percent interest. It was fucking amazing.
>>67681461
The problem is, if the banks weren't bailed out they would have taken down many other banks that didn't need a bailout because they constantly lend to each other. Scary stuff.
>>67690857
And when Volker jacked the interest rates, Argentina did it's first 3:1 currency devaluation to default on its loans, causing massive social disorder. Argentina has been continuing to default even to this day. Grab your ass with both hands if the US can't negotiate a whole new global currency regime and the music stops before we've found a new chair.
I remember when PayPal used to pay me over 3% interest for signing up to have my balance in their money market account, and then looking at it one day and seeing .00003% interest or something ridiculous like that, and then getting an email that they were canceling the program altogether. Now a 3% rate wouldn't even keep things even with inflation.
>>67678974
>too much deflation and people stop spending >because they can buy more later
>they stop spending and producers stop producing
>producers stop producing and they lay off workers
>no job less spending
>even less spending even more deflation
>even more deflation people with jobs still saving because they can buy even more later
>until they are layed off
>and so on
Having said that current levels of deflation is probably not that dangerous and I would say there is no need for QE or negative interest rates in US or even in EU which have not a monetary problem but structural problem which ECB cannot fix...
>>67687712
>transhumanism
I thought it was to strap people into massive amounts of debt and keep them working. That's why a new phone from every company comes out every year, regardless of the fact that all they did was change the exterior, and maybe make the display 1/8 of an inch wider.
>>67683699
Oh sweet, so I should just tell the bankruptcy judge that when they want to repo all of my stuff?
Thanks, anon! Boy will they look silly!
>>67691500
Like I said, that's the game that keeps the engine going that in the end makes the transhumanism. It's like war: is it really about the oil? No. But if it weren't for the profitability and the power of the oil, then there wouldn't be enough motivation to carry out the war.
Same with the military-industrial complex. Sure it exists to self-sustain the money game, but it's really just a tool for the people who come up with the excuses it needs to self-sustain.
>>67691549
He's not wrong though
All money is actually imaginary at this point considering its backed by nothing and created in the system
>>67691034
And how is this a problem exactly? Just let the banks fail, in the long run its the best option anyway.
Just look at Iceland
>>67691720
>its backed by nothing
It's literally backed by the faith and credit of the United States government.
And again, saying "it's imaginary" is a retarded as fuck statement considering you'll still go to jail for stealing it and you'll still be homeless without it.
>>67691720
And as long as the fake money game keeps going, then the state remains in power and the courts, being adjuncts of the state, keep ruling for it, and the law enforcement and the prisons and the repo men keep getting their cut, and eventually you're on the wrong end of the barrel of a gun because you're a problem for everybody else.
>>67691967
the U.S. govt sure is credible
I'm not saying go in debt and say it's all fake. The dollar only has power because you believe it does.
>>67692229
>because you believe it does.
That's not true.It has power because people have faith in the US political economy. If you and your whole family decided they didn't believe it it anymore, it wouldn't make a difference. If you started a town of a 10 thousand people who didn't believe in it and used rocks to barter instead, the US government would still require taxes be paid in US currency.
>>67691300
Argentina could just easily cancel the debts (like Greece could) and fix everything. Too bad the US would invade.
>>67691720
It's backed by US economy. By things you can buy in Dollars. Iphones, Boeing planes, Military technology, Oil and Gas now too and many many other things that is produced in US.
>>67692229
>The dollar only has power because you believe it does.
And the police that comes to your house to kick your ass if you don't pay your debts believe it does.
But yeah, its created out of nothing, its backed by nothing by faith (and the US tax payer) and the money to pay the interest isn't created with the debt so there is ALWAYS going to be losers.
Usury, jews, merchants, fractional reserve lending, 1913 federal reserve, federal reserve as federal as federal express, Rothschild, zionists, web of debt, debt slaves yada yada yada. Nothing new here.
>>67691316
>but structural problem which ECB cannot fix...
The ECB can fix it if they do pic related
>>67690429
>investors taking fewer risks
>deflation rewarding savers and responsible people
Seems like a return to the way things should be.
>>67691967
When a bank issues a loan, that money is conjured out of thin air. The """money""" may be backed by the US government, but that doesn't make that deposit "real" or scarce in any sense, since it cost the bank nothing to create asset-liability accounts for that loan. The bank merely enters numbers in a computer, and poof, the money exists.
It is fundamentally no different from me writing "one billion dollars" on a piece of paper and lending it out to someone. But because banks are exceptional within the system, they are permitted to counterfeit whereas individuals are not. And the more complicated and convoluted the system becomes, the less the average person will take interest, and the more easily you can dupe them into believing their money is sound.
>>67692923
But the geopolitical consequences of a chaotic EU breakup are too vast to allow even little Greece to default. They're really and thoroughly fucked by their own creation, and that forces the motivation to figure out how to set up an even broader and more powerful step toward global dictatorship and transhumanism.
At the same time the global political awakening never before seen in the history of mankind, as described by Zbigniew Brzezinski, takes place and people go beyond Golden Dawns and Soldiers of Odin and start almost putting Donald Trump in as POTUS.
What a time to be alive.
>>67692013
>And as long as the fake money game keeps going,
>>67691967
>It's literally backed by the faith and credit of the United States government.
This is really the problem because it puts the banks over the government, since the government doesn't supply its own money it has to rely on the banks for loans to enact policies which it can only pay the interest on through tax which can only be reasonably traced and collected by forcing employers to pay wages through banks. Cut out the middle man and you solve the problem because the excess wealth is absorbed by the state and not mega rich oligarchs but we have already walked off the cliff edge with no way back the only way is to reset by destroying your sovereign nation through civil war absolving the debt and starting a new one but on a global scale even that is farfetched because or foreign intervention.
>>67693332
I want this nightmare to end.
The sooner the ECB implodes in a nuclear fireball the sooner we can rebuild without jewry.
>>67689029
Fun fact, people who are afraid of spiders tend not to be afraid of snakes and vice versa.
>>67693272
Precisely. Is it any wonder that the most outspoken opponents of deflation are bankers and those in the business of inflation? Certainly no vested interest there...
>>67693516
Fiat money and fractional reserve banking are the problems. Having the government supply its own money won't solve that.
>>67693676
Huh. Actually I don't think I'm all that afraid of snakes other than that they move really fucking fast and I'm wary of anything that moves really fucking fast. But I don't really have enough experience with snakes to know.
>>67693744
>Fiat money and fractional reserve banking are the problems. Having the government supply its own money won't solve that.
Sure it would, just remove the jew out of the equation and we can prosper just like Germany did before Judea declared war on it.
>>67678468
>Europe about to start charging you money just to have a bank account
Already happens with US banks charging you a fee if you don't have a min. balance.
>>67693744
>Having the government supply its own money won't solve that.
not necessarily because a government can set its own limits and can decide when is best to take money back out the system when it runs a surplus without having to deal with run away interest payments to external parties.
>>67693921
>>67694326
>we can trust government with our money, politicians are not greedy and evil like bankers!
>>67694574
>>we can trust government with our money, politicians are not greedy and evil like bankers!
Not always at least.
>>67689561
Would be all good if that was all the debt ;)
>>67694817
But inevitably always, given enough time. Power begets corruption. Why not skip that risk and mandate a hard currency and 100% reserve banking, so that Weimar 2.0 can never happen?
>>67684532
>>67693279
If I ask you to build me a house for 1M dollar and I say that I will pay it back later and you believe me and you accept this deal - we are also creating 1M out of thin air. This is just how it is. I never understood why people are so surprised about banks doing this... Like "I watched zeitgeist, did you know banks create money out of thin air?". Fuck yeah. So what? Thats how world works.
>>67694574
Are you advocating we go back to bartering then ? because by that logic you can`t trust anyone with your money except yourself and money is worth nothing without the trust in it.
At least people in government can be held to account unlike the current situation where we just give the banks fucking everything despite how reckless and unethical their practices.
>>67695140
Good Lord. I feel bad for you.
>>67678468
Peter Schiff called this several years ago.
Why the fuck does no tv or goverment economist have any clue about anything, but a youtube Jew is right about everything
>>67695140
>we are also creating 1M out of thin air.
No, we are not. I am spending 1M of my money in order to build your house. You will then repay me 1M of your money. No money has been created or destroyed.
Banks that run on 100% reserves operate like this. Fractional reserve banks do not.
>>67695483
No, I suggest we go back to gold-backed currency and free banking. Why the fuck would you think I'm in favor of barter?
>>67695483
>At least people in government can be held to account
What we rope them all and then the disaster is still here.
I want to see traitors hanging from gallows but frankly we need to remove the problem on a larger scale than that. Jewry causes banking problems first and foremost, so we need to remove all jewry and not just whatever kikes are contemporary.
The day of the rope will be a waste of time if the cycle just repeats itself 40 years later.
>>67695140
The real problem to my mind is leverage. Historically, if things are kept, say, 10:1, then sure you have some problems and some inflation but things tend to work out well enough overall. When you get 50:1, 100:1, as we saw during the housing collapse and as we continue to see big problems.
Notice how they used to popularize those new sets of banking rules from Basel. Basel I, Basel II, Basel III, but they could never hold the banks to those rules because they were so upside down, and then they just gave up and nobody talks about Basel rules anymore.
After Kublai Kahn put (part of) Genghes's Empire back together, he got a yuge boost by introducing fiat currency and backstopping its value by accepting it as tax payments. And then it got out of his hands when he ran the printing presses on overdrive to fund expansionary wars and then there was massive death, shitty production, and the Empire collapsed again.
Is there really anything new under the sun? Icarus found, but it was Deadalus who lived to tell the tale.
>>67694900
>Would be all good if that was all the debt ;)
Yeah what's it at now? 20+ trillion? People who think that this can go on forever are delusional.
>>67695008
>Why not skip that risk and mandate a hard currency and 100% reserve banking
Because it would stifle commerce and economic growth. We can still have FIAT currency, we just need to have accountability, guillotines and no fucking bail outs/ins ever.
And people can still hold silver and gold if they want to. But having some paper money so people can buy apples and potatoes is not that terrible either.
>>67683713
Trump only wants 4 years.
>>67678468
Well, we have interest rate 11%. That actually doesnt make economics good.
>>67696025
It's a bit more complicated than that.
But trust me American economy is waay more fucked up than Russian. Most Americans just aren't aware of that yet
>>67695881
This is REALLY GOOD system. Good job Woodrow Wilson!
Can someone explain to me why Americans can even think of voting for Bernie Sanders who wants to increase the american debt by another 10 trillion for an investment that doesn't produce any economic growth whatsoever?
Or am I missing something?
>>67696197
>Woodrow Wilson!
What a cuck
>>67696330
I always tell the Bernie people to head on over to www.twsp.us (Tax Wall St. Party) to improve their economic understanding if Bernie's general message sounds like the right way to go.
I think it's worth considering. But the most vociferous voters are typically operating on emotion rather than rationality.
>>67696330
>Can someone explain to me why Americans can even think
No, because they can't. And this isn't something that is unique for the US, its like this in every country in the whole world.
If you are reading this you don't have to be offended because just the fact that you are here means that you probably know more then the vast majority of the worlds population.
>>67696385
You may want to get your sarcasm detector checked.
>>67695661
BARBAROUS RELIC
>>67692689
What?
- Government Debt
- Government Treasury Bonds?
- Government Debt held by the public?
- Government Debt held by foreigners?
Sure as shit ain't:
- Total Public Debt including Households
- Total Debt held by foreigners
Those debts are a lot higher.
This map is bull shit and of no use at all.
WTF?
>>67696330
>>67696735
And the funny thing is the leftist that say ''if we can afford X trillion on the military we can afford X trillion on useless college degrees''
They don't understand that the USD is literally backed by the US military and if wasn't for the fact that the US military kicks the shit out of any country that challenges the hegemony of the dollar (Libya, Iraq) the USD would stop being the go to currency for oil trade and then it would be worse of then the Canadian dollar.
But i guess they think you can back a currency with gender studies and 221 different pronouns.
>>67692689
Fake Statistics, Fake Stats.
>>66781342
>>66781342
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/ROWFDNQ027S ($3.6 Foreign Investment USA)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GPDI ($2.86 Private Domestic Investment)
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/intinv/iip_glance.htm ($31 Trillion in Foreign Ownership in Property in the US compared to $25 Trillion of US Ownership in foreign countries)
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/record-94031000-americans-not-labor-force-participation-rate-stuck-38-year
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/LNU05000000 (Not in Labor Force)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/civpart (CIVILIAN PARTICIPATION RATE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmPUKy-3OfY
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/wp/wp666.pdf
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-06/financial-documentaries
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-14/top-15-economic-truth-documentaries
https://research.hks.harvard.edu/publications/workingpapers/citation.aspx?PubId=8956
https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect-someone.html
https://datahub.io/dataset/fed-once-secret-loan-crisis-data-compiled-by-bloomberg-bailouts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgig1QVU2lY (war is a Racket, Col Larry Wilkerson)
Check money velocity
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1V (Top was 2007 Q4 at 10.7, now down to 6.3)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2V (Top was 1997 Q3 at 2.2, now down to 1.5)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MZMV (Top was 1981 Q1 at 3.5, down to 1.4)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/Mult (Top was January 1987 at 3.1)
>>67695881
>But having some paper money so people can buy apples and potatoes is not that terrible either.
Gold-backed money does not mean you carry around bars of gold to buy apples and potatoes. Before central banks, all banks were able to print banknotes. Those notes, when redeemable in specie, were basically warehouse receipts. You take your receipt, you go to the bank, and you can take out the weight in gold that it represents.
The problem with fractional reserve banking is that banks started printing off more receipts than there was actual gold. This means that if everyone holding those receipts decided to redeem them for gold, the bank wouldn't be able to give them their rightful property. If you had a car warehouse and you did this, people would come to claim their cars and you wouldn't be able to deliver because you gave it away, you'd be arrested for fraud. But banks were not.
Fiat currency means money that is backed by nothing but trust in the government. The paper is the money, whereas under a hard currency, the metal is the real money and the paper is just a convenient substitute. All the abuses you're concerned with come from fiat currency. No amount of regulation will solve this.
>stifle commerce
Because commerce didn't exist before worthless paper was invented?
>economic growth
Unsustainable economic growth through fraudulent credit expansion leads to inevitable recessions and depressions. If you pump yourself full of amphetamines in order to speed up your reaction time and though processes, would you call that "personal growth"? Of course not, because it's artificial growth that will inevitably be followed by a crash, because your body will try to stabilize itself.
>>67697480
*thought
>>67697121
US total debt is $62 Trillion, 350% Debt to GDP, but much of GDP is Government Spending... say $4 Trillion Annually out of $17 Trillion.
Fake Statistics, Fake Stats.
>>66781342
>>66781342
>>67678468
>projected 2% GDP growth for the next 3 years withgrowth projections going down each time FOMC releases them
>10 year yield under 2% and 30 under 2.7%
>S&P brushes off 18% correction and is now only 5% off its highs
Who is right?
>>67697449
>Fake Statistics, Fake Stats.
its an old pic
>>67697480
Every one knows this shit all ready. Still doesn't change that fact that FIAT system can work good as long as you keep the jews away from it.
>>67695574
Yeah, but I have nothing. Imagine that I ask few other guys the same and again give only my word. I will create 3 houses out of nothing (well ok some investmens from builders). Imagine that builders also have nothing and ask their suppliers for a credit. Who in turn ask raw materials producers credit etc. When someone takes out morgage banks create money out of thin air (credit) similar to my admitedly oversimplified example. Thats simply how it works now. I know about full reserve banking and austrian school of economics. Maybe that would be better I don't know, but it is certainly not a holy grail.
>>67697480
It's even worse than that. Within the City of London Corporation, infinite rehypothecation is legal. So, in broad terms, even if you do have an oz of gold in your bank, you can lend that oz out an infinite number of times and pretend that there are an infinite number of ozs on paper.
If you've not heard of this, one good short book is, "They Own it all, Including You" by Ron McDonald (lol name). Arguably, this system is so bad that, according the USCC, this principle of rehypothecation means that everything you think you might actually own outright is technically owned by the Federal Reserve on the assumption that at some point their notes (debt instruments) were used in a transaction regarding what you think of as your property.
It's so vastly convoluted that in my opinion it cannot be resolved without a massive global defaut and starting the whole thing over again.
>>67697791
If only the rest of the economy was wallstreet
>>67695781
Sure too much leverage is perfect recipe for a disaster. But as housing collapse showed us even with rules its difficult to control credit outside of the system.
>>67695661
Ah right now I`m on the same page.
My gripe is that the production of the money does not belong to the sovereignty I am all for gold backed currency, If the amount in circulation is controlled by the government banks cannot practice fractional reserve lending I would completely restructure them so that you pay the banks to keep your money safe and the money they accrue through those fees would be used to provide loans. Ontop of this I would create a fiat currency that the government uses to run a deficit for its policies and can be used to pay for taxes. This dynamic would have the stability of a gold backed currency but allow the flexibility of a fiat currency when the need for investment and economic stimulation was necessary without having the burden of interest payments because the government can choose when to run a surplus and lower the amount of fiat currency in circulation.
>>67679176
you explain it like a retarded fishfrog but you're right. This offshore corporation tax is keeping al lot of dollars out of the US
>>67678468
yes yes let the banks lend money for fat gainz in exchange for loans from the government at zero percent
>>67678468
They're gonna wait until after the election because Hilldog and the Ds would get railed if they started tanking the economy during an election cycle.
>>67697449
Having few chargeoffs isn't surprising since bad credit was washed through the system in 2006-2010 while good credit refinanced and newly borrowed at record low rates as the money supply doubled.
We are just the best house on the block right now.
>>67682985
so does never inflating wages. Seriously if the uber rich weren't so greedy and allowed employee wages to inflate, all the debt burdened wage slaves could pay off their old debts with their now inflated dollars and then spend the shit out of their newly paid off credit lines and repeat the cycle.
>>67698443
Yah. Well, the whole thing is built on lies to such an extent that even the players can't figure it out. Even the regulators and the politicians that regulate the regulators are in a revolving door with the financial sector. And then the whole this is wrapped up in the intelligence industry just to lie even harder, and the arbitraging the legal system is literally part and parcel of getting away with the lies, and then that funds the lawyers and the judges and everything else.
It's crazy. I personally help out a Jew who was Jewing Jews because some Jew Jewed him into holding some defunct MBSs in his fake financial firm, and he was rigging elections so he could secretly dump them on somebody else.
I don't know how to solve all this, but I do think raising the general level of financial awareness is probably good. It's one of the nicest trends I've seen here on /pol/ over the years since I first got here and tried to foster these kinds of discussions.
>>67679756
Stop, you're making Austrian Economics look bad.
>>67698548
You can essentially do that by holding gold in a vault. The problem is that gold is still a manipulable commodity and a lot of its value is derived from its convertibility to any currency.
If the fiat is divorced from the gold proxy currency then it's worth will always be less and theoretically divorceable from the main currency.
>>67699641
>it's worth will always be less and theoretically divorceable from the main currency.
That is why I suggested that it be tied to taxes to keep it relatively comparable to the main currency.
The alternative view here is that the jews take control of central banks globally.. They they try to bring on stealthly hyperinflation by rigging the statistics.
House prices go UP for over 100% in the last few years, stock market goes UP. car prices UP. "But oh no we're deflating"...
They do this so that they themselves can take out MASSIVE loans to buy houses, companies whatever.
Then when it comes time to pay those loans they let hyperinflation go nuts. Pay back the loans with the now worthless currency, and step aside to let others heal the economy after they made a killing bleeding it.
>>67699411
Yeah thats I was trying to tell Canadian anon. Finance industry is probably most regulated industry and playing by the rules there shouldn't have been such a big overleverage in the system. Full reserve banking is just another rule, which might or might not help. And gold just doesn't add anything maybe just insurance against total stupidity (fed reserves or actual gold reserves doesn't matter as long as fed doesn't go full retard)
>I do think raising the general level of financial awareness is probably good
Its of course true, but I am not sure about how realistic is this. And (I cant believe I am saying this) pol is really much smarter than general population..
>>67700812
Well then its clear what you have to do. Take out a massive loan too.
>>67701247
When they effectively pay you to take a loan these days, it's almost silly not to.
Just have to make sure you have the right connections and inside information so you come out ahead in the end rather than get taken for a ride. Or just play conservatively enough so that you can afford to lose.
>>67678468
does this mean more or less pew pew ?
>>67698019
> Thats simply how it works now
But this is what we're talking about, the difference between how it works now and how it would theoretically work in an Austran-school economy.
>>67698548
That's what legal tender laws did back in the day. The nation was on a gold standard, but government paper was declared legal tender, to be accepted at face value in the payment of debts and taxes. As history demonstrated, and as Gresham's Law points out, fiat paper drives gold out of the country.
Your system has been tried, and it didn't work very well.
>>67700842
>Full reserve banking is just another rule
It is a rule much like "don't murder is a rule". For full reserve banking to happen, the only rule that needs to be applied (not even created, because it already exists) is the one against fraud.
Rothbard demonstrates that in a system of free banking, pressures from competition will severely limit, if not completely eliminate, the incentive to fractionally reserve. The more banks there are in operation, the more calls for gold redemption there will be between the banks (as well as from the customers, to a lesser degree), and thus the more opportunity to bankrupt and arrest banks who defraud their clients.
>>67700298
But the value of taxes is different than the value of gold. One could depreciate too far from the other.
