Ok I'm generalising but from my ""experienced"" time on /pol/, whenever this topic gets brought up a good deal of y'all yankees argue under the assumption that minimum wage people are usually uncommitted, fuck around more than they work and generally argue that they "don't deserve it".
How true is this claim?
>>67633046
Minimum wage is a broken idea when your currency is in constant flux.
You can't install a "minimum wage" that you have to constantly raise to keep with the fleeting purchasing power of your currency.
A few years ago the minimum wage was raised by 20% in Thailand and everything suddenly got more expensive as a result.
t. lived there for 20 years before moving to Polan
>>67633245
That explains why my stupid hdmi cable cost $60
The problem with minimum wage is for the companies that own them. In a world where automation is increasing, minimum wage is pushing company owners into relying less in manual labor, meaning less employees. This means the remaining jobs are more competitive to acquire. People will be fighting for jobs, and companies know the demand will rise for their positions, so they know they can "charge more" for them (offer lower wages and people will still jump on the offer).
Also factor in inflation, and minimum wage increases (though good intentioned) do more harm then good.
>>67633046
There's jobs out there that require no skills that pay more than minimum wage. There's literally no excuse to work a minimum wage job unless you're a student and therefore can't devote 40 hours of your week to work.
The people that end up working for minimum wage have no drive, no skills, do minimum work and frankly don't deserve more pay.
>>67633112
thread
>>67633112
So everyone loses except for the """"expendable"""" employee?
>>67633046
Most people on /pol/ have never worked for a living and think that shilling for the free market makes them rugged and individual, sticking it to an imagined liberal-left orthodoxy
>>67633343
t. Boomer
All minimum wages do is inflate operation costs. The extra costs are being absorbed somewhere. Whether that be in gross profit, cost of living, or work hours.
>>67633377
How old are you?
>>67633046
It's true here, source I worked min wage at uni and didn't spend it like a retard like all the poor plebs there.
>>67633322
That's the thing though, people should really be looking to get out of employment and looking to work for themselves.
>>67633299
HDMI cables are $5 on amazon retard
>>67633046
Fixing of prices and wages (wages are just the price of labor) by the government ALWAYS has negative unintended consequences. Niggers already have the highest unemployment rate in the USA and a large reason for that his their skill set doesn't justify paying them the minimum wage.
Raising it means even more niggers will be out of work, which means more people turning to the government for assistance, and more criminal niggers on the loose.
I would rather niggers be working an contributing to the economy.
>>67633552
hahahaahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahaha
>18
am I still a mistake anon?
>>67633377
Even the expendable employee loses out because eventually his wage will become worthless again, not to mention how doing this sort of shit constructs the prerequisites for hyperinflation and everyone gets fucked when that happens.
>>67633046
People are against major changes in general. It's just the way people are. All the arguments against it are bullshit, yet they keep saying the same shit over and over.
>12 bucks for a hamburger
Hey, that's what it's like here!
It's shit and everytime I buy one wonder why i did.
>>67633448
I'm 19 asshole. It's not hard to find something other than fastfood if you're not a lazy sack of shit.
>>67633625
I'm wondering because you seem to think people are entitled to work.
>>67633046
>that face on the right
>>67633622
>Can't have minimum wage because of niggers
You acknowledge and deny the real problem in the same sentence. You smell like reddit.
got a sausage and egg McMuffin the other day: $4...wtf Australia.
>>67633701
ah nah I don't really believe that. I believe y;know the standard "best person for the position" type thing. Granted I know absolutely nothing about economics despite achieving a C grade.
>>67633778
>t. highest minimum wage in the world
Is this bound to make people cucked?
>>67633046
Because anyone with any sense at all understands that raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars per hour is simply kicking the can down the road.
>>67633046
> $12 dollars is supposed to be expensive for a burger
I fucking hate living in San Fagcisco.
>>67633046
>why are people against raising minimum wage
because nothing changes, the prices balance out because jews aren't stupid
the fast food place in my small town raised their wages from minimum wage to 15/hr because they didnt want to keep training new white people over and over and their are no minorities to hire here yet.
go figure.
>>67633587
yeah. I was dumb enough to go to a store and buy it
>>67633343
..........example?
>>67633423
huh? lamens terms please? :3
>>67633046
>1
Firstly because Americans believe in entrepeneurship as one of the major gateways to the middle class.
A higher minimum wage puts a greater strain on new SBOs whereas larger firms built up the economies of scale to easily absorb the minimum wage increase
>2.
We are a large country with huge differences. A shithole town in Podunk Wyoming may have a depressed prices and incomes and a lower ability for business owners to pay a 15 dollar min wage, this causing a mismatch and pricing SBOs out of the market
A large city may have inflated prices from man many people chasing few goods , a minimum wage increase there first hitting rent, then filtering down to the cost of staples
>3
Because we have a large contingient of niggers, spics, and white trash who white honestly arent worth that amount per hour. A min wage increase would act as yet another forcibly extracted subsidy of their poor decisions (single parents, kids. Out of wedlock or when they can't be afforded, gambling, drinking , drugs, poor grocery budgeting etc )
>4
Because the standard of living way outpaced the nominal cost of living .
A person making 8 /hr today is wealthier than someone making the inflation - equivalent of 15/hr 15, 20 or 25 years ago.
A week's salary can pay for internet- the gateway to a worldwide information network. Another week's salary can pay for a phone, which can last for years, which has infinite uses and benefits. A month's salary can pay for A decent used car, better than the old shit boxes.
>>67633423
fuck I can't spell "layman's"
>>67633679
You probably have some awesome skill we don't have.
>>67633737
I wonder who could be behind this?
>>67633046
Why do you care what seppos fucking do anyway. I only care about Trump cause it will be funny as fuck if he becomes POTUS.
>>67633837
This is true. People seem to forget that it's a business and they gotta weigh if it's worth it.
>>67633846
It can't be that bad in that cucked city right?
>>67633853
Never met a jew desu
>>67634008
Factories, warehouses, etc. Talk to a temp agency. You literally don't need any skills whatsoever other than the ability to show up for work and breath. There's Mexicans that don't speak English, have an 8th grade education, and have no skills and they make more than minimum wage.
>>67634254
>masters degree
>fluent Chinese
>can't get a job in a coffee shop or warehouse
>never had an interview in 5 years
Only have a job now cos my friend is my boss
this country is pants on head retarded
>>67634008
>what is a trade
spend 4 years as an apprentice instead of 4 years shitposting and you could be a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc
even lazy spics do this and eventually move on from minimum wage cuckoldry
>>67633753
If we didn't have niggers it would be poor, unskilled white people getting fucked over by the minimum wage. Having a minimum wage at all is just retarded policy. Niggers just happen to be the most unskilled group in the USA.
>>67634095
I pick things up and put them down. I also do 4th grade level addition. YOU DON'T NEED ANY SKILLS TO MAKE MORE THAN MINIMUM WAGE. You do need motivation though, which you are obviously lacking. You'd rather wallow in self pitty and complain that you should make more money even though you're an unskilled, unmotivated fuck.
>>67634371
>t. racism
Are you Chinese? I have a chinese friend whose uncle works in Austria. They went for a business trip in Oz and he told me that they ordered lobster, didn't know how to eat it and were clearly made fun of by ozzies. Apparently this sorta small stuff shit is common across the pond
>>67634254
oh. okay seems dodgy but ok.
>>67634390
oh yeah forgot all about that.
>>67634048
The nominal $/hr is meaningless when a person making min wage today lives better than someone making twice the amount a generation before, and lives better than royalty of several generations prior
>5
Protestant work ethic.
America and it's capitalistic compatriots (the Asian Tigers most significantly ) is all about PRODUCTION PRODUCTION PRODUCTION.
What can you do for me, in monetary terms?
If you took an Accounting course, you would know that businesses not only have to account for real costs, but opportunity costs as well, just to get the slightest edge over competition . There is an account called "Mimimum Wage Variance " or "Minimum Wage Productivity Variance" where employers from the deli to the bank account for the value lost by paying someone a minimum wage. That money had an opportunity cost, and could have went into cheaper products for customers, toward expenses, to investment, to drawing, or elsewhere in the firm.
>6
It prices out young and/or low skilled prospective employees from the labor market.
If I can hire a crew of 5 to do various duties, one of which is sweeping the floors, if the min wage was increased I could fire one worker and go without daily floor sweeps- as the potential customer loss from unswept floors is probably less than the loss of paying that extra employee the new min wage
Do you think we'll live to see the age of the digital standard for currency?
I want to live to see currency become entirely credit and some nerds crash the economy.
>>67634520
Chinese should learn how to eat like humans if they want to play Civ
>>67633672
>tfw 2 big macs cost $5
Feels good man
>>67634371
>master's degree
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's probably not a STEM masters is it?
>>67634734
.....so you're not chinese
>>67635044
nope
Because everything else goes up.
Let's say minimum wage is 7.50 and you have skilled job that you had to get educated on and you make 15.
If the minimum wage is now 15, your job is now minimum wage, which means all the studying you did to earn more money is now worthless because you might as well flip burgers. Are you going to be okay with that? Hell no, you and everyone else is going to riot and demand more money from your employer, of which he'll probably say fuck off and bring in Pajeet and Chang to do your job for 15 dollars an hour. So now you and everyone else is out of a job which means unskilled labor jobs are going to be sucked up because everyone is desperate, and because those jobs are only so limited thanks to outsourcing, you're now a fucking bum.
Let's backtrack for a second. If your employer does agree to raising your wage, it means that the company is going to have to charge more for their services, which would either A) People agree to pay the price which will make inflation skyrocket. Granted it will level out, but now we're back to someone being on the bottom and the demand for a higher wage continues or B) The company goes into bankruptcy because nobody wants to pay the higher price of your goods/services and now you're out of job.
There has to be people at the bottom to support the top, it's been that way since Christ was an E-2, but the difference is that so long as there is opportunity for people at the bottom to climb up the ladder of success, there is nothing wrong with it. We need opportunity to be successful, not higher minimum wage.
>>67633423
>Most people on /pol/ have never worked for a living
>most people on /pol/ aren't stupid enough to think working at McDonald's is a career to raise a family on
FTFY
>>67634048
>>67634661
I've always been fascinated by the "state" type policy of America. We kiwi kucks like to pretend we're special but really we're all to similar that the entire government can just make a law for the entire nation and have it approved effective immediately or something. America's a different story.
Do you think it's also the fact that you're country's pretty old (well compared to other nations excluding europe) that you guys had lots of time to diversify and things become so inherently different it's hard to pass a universal law or something of that scale?
Importing niggers and mexicans is the goal of any democratical country and free country. Slave labour and NSA are USA foundation.
>>67633322
I love to see them sell their goods to a populus without jobs. LoL, if people cannot buy stuff, they work. If working still isn't enough to buy stuff, you get a second job. And you find out that you still cannot afford stuff.
What do you do then? Well... steal of course.
>>67634767
>tfw you will NEVER have american fast food prices
>>67633377
The employee by default is expendable. There are far more employees than employers, so the employee must either increase ones own value - through skill set- or decrease one's cost- through wage- to be more attractive than the next prospective employee.
>>67633423
I was on my own since 17, worked as a literal shit shoveler, in construction/ demolition, as a porter, and in general maintenance before starting college.
>Had to take out a loan since I was "techically" under my mother's household even though I didn't live with her batshit ass, therefore fafsa didnt apply
Most of the financial problems came from
>Guys who had kids they couldn't pay for
>Guys who wasted their cash on cigs, booze, drugs, lotto, New TVs,monthly cable, living alone or in pricey apartments , shit budgeting and new cars
To this day I haven't knocked any chick up, live with roomies, don't drink smoke or do drugs. I saved up to buy a used Maxima, and taught myself basic site design.
Why do you want the State to coercively subsidize bad decisions?
>>67633653
>All the arguments against it are bullshit
Get you provided just a blanket statement without specifying which are bullshit and why, not why your position isn't bullshit .
>>67633046
Because it increases inflation, while small amount of inflation is beneficial to economy drastic changes like this are not.
Americans are practically the only people where who work heavily for big companies. They literally care about their big companies more than their own good
>>67633846
mate i pay 12 dollars for a drink at a fucking bar... I fucking hate my town too
>>67634371
Should go to china and bank on your second language to make 30 cents an hour
>>67633046
The market place sets the minimum wage,
Any attempts to correctly set the minimum wage would only distort it and raise the barrier to work.
>>67635394
fair argument burgerbruv
>>67633046
you have an example of min wage effects in your shitposting neighbour, just ask them of their firsthand experience with it; I'm sure they won't tell you that the prices of everything got higher and how they can't into a full-time job despite all relevant conditions warranting such an employment
hits self-employed particularly hard since they cannot report a lower income than minimum, hence have to pay for social security/medical at higher rates than before min wage was implemented
>>67633046
increases in minimum wage result in an increase in real income for low-end earners because labor does not constitute the entirety of the costs of production. There is also, debt, rent, capital goods and so on. These constitute the majority of the costs. So if you increase minimum wage by 100%, the price of the final good will probably rise by like ~~20%. An acceptable outcome in order to not have a generation of debtslaves with no hope of sending their kids to college or owning a house (which is what the USA will have).
Lol my expenses (rent, electricity, water, taxes) have gone up by about 150 euro over the last 2 years. This without moving houses, and taking the cheaper alternatives every year. the 150 euro is an increase of almost 40% over 2 years. My income has not changed. So basically, i cannot spend my money. That's 150 euros extra that don't go into the economy, but into tax havens, wall street and the government.
But hey, i just found out what i can make stealing and robbing. Seems like a better solution. Cops are rubbish here anyway.
>>67635567
Fucking hell, I thought four quid was steep
>>67633647
ah yeah. sometimes I think it's just 80% entitlement and gibs me dat attitude
>>67633954
kek really?
>>67633647
hyperinflationistas are either irreparably deluded or simply uneducated. The only evidence they have for their claims are historical references to a jungle republic and a wartorn nation saddled by a foreign power with hopeless debts.
>>67633778
Holy shit and I thought Cuckada was bad
>>67635662
Sometimes I feel like America really doesn't like change so their motto is "ain't VERY broke, don't fix it". Other countries just kinda suck up the high prices in return for some government subsidised something
>>67633046
This
http://www.investors.com/news/economy/hiring-slowed-where-minimum-wage-surged-in-2015/
http://www.investors.com/news/economy/wal-mart-closes-stores-high-minimum-wage-cities-la-oakland/
>>67633046
because in America, it's not economically sound and consequently people aren't convinced of its supposed benefits. Why is this a question?
>>67635394
t. Underage shitposter
>>67635257
The argument also applies to different areas within the same state.
E.g. even though CA has LA, Illinois has Chicago, TX has Houston, and NY has NYC, most of those states are low income rural towns with a low velocity of money .
>I've always been fascinated by the "state" type policy in America
Historically, the States banded together and chartered the Federal Government into existence, not the other war around.
Legally, the States have vast reserved powers thanks to the 10th Amendment of the constitution.
Philosophically, this system prevents the Federal Government from gaining too much power.
Practically, the country is made up of different people's with different lands and different interests, so a one size fits all approach would never work .
> you guys had lots of time to diversify and things become so inherently different
Yes. The manufacturing base of the northern colonies and the agricultural base of the southern colonies took about 100 years to express themselves. The Midwest territories took almost a century of integration, starting the east west divide . The Civil War steepened the north south divide, and the federal/state divide. A century of industrialization created the rural/urban divide The good rush, Manifest Destiny , and later the start of Hollywood to get away from Edison's legal machine solidified the coast/middle America divide.
>it's hard to pass a universal law or something of that scale?
Well it can be done through congress , such that it doesn't infringe on state's rights or the constitution (though these are becoming increasingly jeapordized ).
Something like the interstate highway system didn't impede on state's rights or the constitution, was widely popular, and was quick to implement.
Something like universal health care faces constituonal issues, state sovereignty issues, political issues, ideological issues, and economic issues
>>67635772
>live all year round in a tourist trap town filled with summer homes
>pint of lager can cost £4.40 even during winter months when it's just locals
It's a sad day when a round of drinks for you and your 3 friends demolishes a Twenty.
>>67635215
>that picture
>>67636490
ah indeed. Thanks for all this insight you have. The most I know about American history is the Boston Party incident and the results of that war where britain defeated france and raised taxes I forgot
>>67635215
t....this can't be real. this can't be in the UK right?
>>67635215
>projecting this hard
The fact that we in NZ have a minimum wage at $15.whatever and anything other than a big mac costs around 12 dollars for a meal should explain exactly how that image sums it up.
>>67633046
When you say, minimum wage job, the first thing that comes to most people's mind is young people and niggers.
>>67633112
Latvia dumping truths.
>>67637118
but is it worth it tho?
>>67637307
Is what worth it?
The raising of a minimum wage that either cripples smaller company's or forces them to cut hours or employees?
Or the ever increasing prices of products due to the inflation caused by the influx of new money or company's being forced to raise the cost of their products to offset their new expenses. No it isnt worth it.
Minimum wages should increase at the rate of reserve bank inflation and nothing more.
Dramatic increases for 'living wages' are cheap ways to buy votes and end up destroying the lives of people that are associated with low skill labour in one way or another and misunderstand that you shouldn't start a fucking family on a low wage job and if you must then you learn to fucking make ends meet and if required go on a benefit its what they are for.
>>67637118
Take into account that $15NZD = $9.93USD.. but the Labour party and the living wage group want $19+ for some reason.. it's like they want to kill small business who they also advocate for considering they hire half of the population - apparently.
>Socialist logic
>>67635382
>that .gif
I woke up an hour ago unable to sleep, and just poured myself a drink. I need to be at work in 2 hours to complete a project task before tomorrow's meeting with my customer who's pretty high up and could probably get me on probation if I don't deliver.
Send help.
>>67637672
Labour party are fucking me off with their vote buying.
It already costs 12 dollars for 4 fucking chicken thighs and they want to fuck us up more by free education and raising a wage to a stupid fucking level because 'muh poverty' when half the niggers living in supposed 'poverty' dont even fucking work anyway.
Just wait. The next thing to leave that slimy fucks mouth will be
>Basic income.
>>67633046
Because minimum wage is irrelevant . What is in important is cost of living, purchasing power, standard of living and median wage.
For instance look at Australia which has one of the highest minimum wages in the world. Our average income is only 44k USD compered to America which is 54k USD. Australia also has one of the highest costs of living in the world.
>>67633423
>liberal-left orthodoxy
>imagined
Here in the US we have ex-cast members from the Daily Show in five different mainstream shows now. 10 years ago, they were all on one leftist show.
The Daily Show with Trevor Noah
The Nightly Show with Larry Filmore
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver
Full Frontal with Samantha Bee
The Late Show with Stephen Colbert
This is a small example, but a telling one with regard to dominant ideology.
>>67637658
Yeah I kinda agree with you on the cheap vote cash out and ultimately anybody as an employee is expendable especially a minimum wage one. I know atm I probably sound like an entitled prick who knows nothing about economics but really I'm just trying to understand the workforce and such. No I don't believe people should be entitled to work because they need a job. It's a "most useful" kinda schlick. After all it's business.
>>67637672
Some family friend runs an indie game company that only survives because he's too cheap to pay even the current minimum wage to his well-educated employees; he actually neglects to pay them.
>>67638330
Thats exactly it. In business everything is money. Its heartless and resentful but they owe it to themselves, their shareholders, and their customers to provide the best service they cant. But at the lowest overhead they possibly can.
>>67637776
sending
Believe in the lie
Of work til' you die
>>67633112
Here, based minimum wage increasing is based on inflation.
I don't understand the point.
>>67633299
It's 2$ in Aliexpress.
>>67638483
Thanks friend.
My dad used to live on the southern tip of the southern island of New Zealand during his teenage years. Said he used to deliver milk for a job and have this huge field behind his house that he'd go explore. Must have been mid to late '60s. He still has a NZ flag in his office.
The End. Just wanted to let you know NZ is pretty cool in my book.
You on the north island or south island?
>>67638866
south. I have some overall selfish issues with this country but overall it's 10/10 when you compare it with most other nations in the world.
>>67638453
haha good stuff
>>67637001
Dianne Abbot and the Labour party are cucks, thank God they'll never be in power again
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Abbott#Comments_on_race
>On 4 January 2012, Abbott tweeted that: "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game", which again led to widespread criticism including accusations of racism.[56] Only after being told by the Labour Party leadership that the comment was unacceptable did she apologise for "any offence caused", claiming that she had not intended to "make generalisations about white people".[57][58] The Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg called her comments a "stupid and crass generalisation". Nadhim Zahawi, Conservative MP, said: "This is racism. If this was a white member of Parliament saying that all black people want to do bad things to us he would have resigned within the hour or been sacked."
>>67634254
I applied for a job listing boxes at a warehouse and they told me I needed a certificate for a 22 week course to do it.
Ffffffffuck that
>>67638453
*sigh* reading everything so far is voiding me of emotion and that I can be terminated at any time (with notice of course) from my min wage job. Do you think no emotion (apart from friendliness and socialbility) is the best way to approach your job?
>>67639176
Not at all. If you do a good job and have a good relationship with the customers your an asset. You are already trained and know the job well, are good at it and the customers know you. Thats helpful to them.
>>67638983
Yeah I like your country independent of my dad's testimony. I mean, he first got me interested but all I've researched outside of that are positive in my book. Other than gun laws, that is, but that can't be helped outside here it seems. Not trying to be a typical boisterous murican but being able to drive down to the local grocery store and buy a handgun in 10 minutes is invaluable to me.
Your countryside is also very beautiful.
>>67633245
Are you polish?
>>67639268
My parents say I'm way too emotionally invested in shit which was how I got fired from my first min wage job (being intoxicated during work) trying to deal with stress. I just need to be more level headed and shit. Not take things too seriosuly. Thanks for sharing your insight m8
>>67633046
According to most polls, a vast majority of Americans and a slim majority of Republicans support raising the minimum wage to somewhere in the $12.00 to $15.00 range. The conservative media is against a minimum wage increase because the conservative media is an arm of the Republican party and the Republican party is firmly against any social welfare programs because they cost money that could be better spent on corporate welfare programs. Remember: Trump is running on economic populism and is currently the Republican primary front-runner.
There's really no one in American politics who is against a minimum wage hike because of a rational economic argument (indeed, the typical rational economic argument - the inefficiency caused by price floors - is quite weak. It hinges on a number of assumptions about competitiveness that don't seem to be true in the current labor market).
When it comes to economic issues, American politics is a war between two different classes of gibmedat; one whose gibmedat goes to the unlucky and the lazy (you're free to speculate about the specific breakdown between those two camps on your own) and one whose gibmedat goes to the extraordinarily wealthy. But really, that latter camp is enforced top-down through media propaganda; the average Republican voter is NOT a fan of handouts for billionaires, and is very much a fan of receiving handouts of their own. They're voting Republican because social issues are more important to them than economic ones.
That's why Trump has been able to run away with it. He's promising economic populism (which Republican voters want) and social conservatism (which Republican voters want).
>>67639476
Sometimes I feel like NZ is the vanilla ice cream of developed countries. Doing well but no outstanding characteristics with a tiny bit of inferiority complex.
>>67637295
M8 that's Austria
>>67639784
That's quite the way to put it I suppose.
Oddly, vanilla is my favorite flavor of ice cream. I don't know if that requires a "no homo" but no homo.
>>67639847
Was a joke, friend. At least I recognized the flag similarities, though, right?
>>67633737
why is there a picture of black beard from One Piece in the middle of the picture ? He trie to suck jesus power or something?
The best defense against communism is a decent paycheck. It is the one thing Murricans don't seem to get.
>>67633046
Because most of us have work a minimum wage Job in the past at some point in our lives, and we interact with people who work there.
>worked mim wage at factory
literal fucking illegals
>worked mim age at fast food
niggers and punks
There was this one kid who would always get a fight with the manager about wearing plugs in the giant holes he had stretched in his ears.
Were realists here on /pol/, we dont sugar coat shit.
>>67640189
haha no homo burgerbro :)
there are economic formulas that prove prove raising minimum wage takes money away from skilled middle income workers . so fuck u low class scum
>>67633046
Because if you need the government to give you a raise at your long-term minimum wage job, it'd be cheaper for society to put you on welfare or deport you.
>>67638639
The increase of the minimum wage is not nearly enough to cover inflation. Furthermore this is all a vicious circle, minimum wage is increased by leftist politicians to get more votes, cost of life increases significantly more, labor cost increases, taxes are increased, companies have to lay off their employees and ultimately shut down, and so on.
That's how France managed to lose 570k jobs since 2008. The politicians' answer in turn is to create useless subsidized jobs as an attempt of damage control, which in turn severely increases taxes.
You don't get the point because you have been brought up in a socialist society, where paying ever more increasing taxes is seen as normal.
>>67633112
>>67633343
Things sure must be nice back in the 90's.
>>67642168
>France managed to lose 570k jobs since 2008
Anon it seems to be much worse than that.
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2298936/France-lost-million-jobs-repressive-tax-regime-report-claims.html
Minimum wage jobs aren't supposed to be a career - they're supposed to be a starting point to gain experience and climb the ladder
people who stay at the bottom of the ladder and demand the same pay as someone a few rungs up are useless cannon fodder who's opinions on economic issues should not be listened to.
>>67634254
>>Factories, warehouses
Those are minimum wage in europe.
>>67633046
>eating the fried Jew.
>eating nigger chow.
>eating anything that is served by someone you would be ashamed to call your son.
It's like you like failing at life.
>>67634661
>could have went into cheaper products for customers
Things that never happen ever.
France reduced the TVA for restaurant, price increased.
>>67642549
>the same pay as someone a few rungs up
yeah they just want a free ride to becoming one of the $25,000 a year elite
In a thick labor market where people are able to determine their own skill level and negotiate accordingly, minimum wage is bad. The right believes in markets and individual responsibility. Whether those prerequisites actually obtain in a given industry and if not, what level of minimum wage is efficient is incredibly complex and almost no two economists agree except for political shills.
>>67642549
This.
Whenever they say "muh wage isn't livable" meaning "i can't afford all the basics of life" I want to ask "since when did poverty free life become a right?"
It fucking didn't. You can't afford all your medical bills or the comfy apartment you live in from your minimum wage because nobody's supposed to. THAT'S why you work hard to NOT earn the bare fucking minimum. To AFFORD stuff.
You're not supposed to be entitled to all lifes necessities regardless of your job.
Immigrants into America used to have to live in shitty rental apartments where the only personal space you had was the space your body currently occupied. If you paid enough you were allowed to the dinner table once a day, where you could eat the leftovers of those who ate before and paid more.
And guess what? Nobody complained and America had its biggest growth ever under these conditions.
>>67633299
Did u buy a fancy cable? Lel
>>67633835
Its not any cheaper over here
>>67639711
t. 15-year old
>>67635662
>pic
The problem I see here is they start from the assumption than rent, capital and labor are roughly the same (they don't source that with some sort of average or statistic).
Of course changes on labor won't affect the final price much in that case. But that's a bad argument if the costs are not roughly the same. It varies greatly from industry to industry.
>>67635662
That graph is bullshit though.
If that one company represents an entire economy, then not only do its labor costs constitute all of the wages in the country, its rental and capital losses are someone elses profits.
Meaning that whereas shit became 12,5% cheaper (not 20%), all of the incomes in that country also suffered a 12,5% loss (not 50%).
Secondly if you would actually have multiple such companies represent one economy, you would understand how one company lessening its costs of any type would also mean it would be able to expand, thusly making up for the decreased costs of capital/rent/labor by increasing their efficiency.
Like for example if a company somehow figures out how to get its business done completely virtually and suddenly is able to cut all kinds of costs, it would also simultaneously expand and become available to new customers and markets that wouldn't have been reachable in its older format. Even if this one specific company instead uses all the new savings for profits of its shareholders, the leap has already been made. If the company that made the leap originally is unable/unwilling to expand to new markets that became available, inevitably someone else will emulate the leap and earn the markets for themselves instead.
Either way progress gradually makes its way to reach and benefit anyone. It's just profitable.
BUMP for the only non-shitty thread.
Come on motherfuckers are hypetrains and memes all you're here for?
>>67633377
They lose, too.
>>67633046
>minimum wage people are usually uncommitted, fuck around more than they work
It's about 80% accurate.
There are about 20% that are hard working decent people.
The 20% will work hard, learn whatever skills, work ethics/habits they can and then used the acquired skills/habits to get a better job -or they possess the critical thinking skills to move beyond complaining about working for min wage and move onto step 2: DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT...going to school, finding a non min wage job they qualify for, networking into a non min wage job etc etc
>>67633046
Rather than increasing minimum wage, we should increase tax credits in the lower bracket. This wouldn't have the damaging effects on employment, but still provide all the benefits the people crying for minimum wage demand.
>>67639711
>here's really no one in American politics who is against a minimum wage hike because of a rational economic argument (indeed, the typical rational economic argument - the inefficiency caused by price floors - is quite weak. It hinges on a number of assumptions about competitiveness that don't seem to be true in the current labor market).
holy shit you need to read the sticky
It'll make people more reluctant to hire if they have a minimum wage.
As one of my side jobs, I'm working as a translator for one company. I get paid PER PAGE. Don't do jack shit the whole month? No pay.
>>67634390
>trade
>no skills
Durrrrrr
>>67635662
>using yellow on a white background
>"graph on the right"
>graph is actually on the left
>looks like shit overall
2/10, minimal effort
>the "MUH HAMBURGERS WILL COST MORE" argument
jesus fucking christ i thought this was some kind of joke people pulled.
minimum wage is literally unlivable and something does need to be done.
>"WHY DON'T THEY JUST GET A BETTER JOB FAGET"
because not everyone can get a better job and to get something better they have to go to college which requires being able to at least eat and exist in the world until you get a degree.
Minimum wage should be set by state and cost of living. Throw out immigrants and pay people wages they can live on. How can you expect people to improve if they can't even afford shelter or food? What company is going to hire an unshaved starving hobo?
Then from there cut back heavily on welfare for anyone who isn't genuinely disabled. If you can work, there aren't any immigrants fighting for your job, and you can take care of your basic needs with your pay then theres no justification for welfare. This also has the added benefit of reducing insurance costs from freeloaders. No hand outs for families either, taxpayers are not responsible for your poor life choices.
>inb4 bbbut that will hurt the economy
If businesses want to sell their products here they have to treat Americans with respect and not like cattle. If we have to lower our standards to beat China then we are going backwards.
>>67633299
Retailfag here. Accessories like HDMI cables cost so much because retailers sell tvs at a slim profit margin. Then they jack up everything else you need to take advantage of idiots who don't shop around.
>15 an hr
>people really think that will work in their favor and many won't get laid off
>>67633112
Our minimum wage goes up every october
A man should be able to sell his labor for whatever he wants, to compete in the job market. I put myself through college working construction for 5 an hour under the table. It's absurd that it was illegal.
>>67633046
Minimum wage is great in countries where economical policies are not hellbent on promoting either growth over everything or socialism.
No such economies exist, true liberalism has been dead since the 70s and has been replaced with Keynesian ideologies everywhere.
In my opinion removal of private taxes, institution of UBI at a low but "saving your existance" level would lead to far better results where people are independent enough from a job, the state is small and the market gets regulated by nothing but the people working in it.
>>67633046
Pic is wront because the third guy maybe loses his job, but then gets another better job in which he provides the second guy with services. In fact, if second guy is pay more, he consumes more.
Pic is fallacious at best.
>>67634767
>eating McDonalds
How is your low tier shit tastes?
>>67635903
Hyperinflation occurred many more times than that, however all of them have had problems with political or financial instability at the same time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation#Hyperinflationary_episodes
>>67633299
Lol, no, you were just dumb enough to get fleeced by whatever tech store you went to.
Be sure to get the gold plated optical cables, they keep viruses out of your stereo.
>>67633046
>>67633046
Everytime it goes up my wage doesnt so fuck these poor wage cucks
https://soundcloud.com/couchtruthing/emperor-trump
>>67633046
In the US you can easily make more than minimum wage at an unskilled job of you're willing to get dirty.
I can make more money as a laborer/helper for a construction company but I'm filthy, sweaty, and tired at the end of the day for $12.00/hour and it can be stressful. Or I can go to Starbucks and make minimum wage but I get to sit in an air-conditioned building and talk to cute college girls all day, with the worst happening is that I mess up someone's latte and have to make another one.
So in this circumstance the people yelling the loudest for an increase in the minimum wage are the people taking the easy jobs...also these fucking idiots all seem to support illegal immigration too which doesn't make any sense. All this puts people off from supporting increasing the minimum wage even before any theory is involved, at the personal level it's already been defeated.
>>67654158
But senpai,gold plating is good against corrosion and shit,useful if you use you cables for something other than just your home TV. Though it's hard to find actually gold plated stuff.
>>67633046
>why don't Americans join me in my 60% payroll taxes
>>67633046
A price floor (for labor in this case) always distorts the economy; a bad idea if you can avoid it.
For the liberals: You can be pro-welfare and still against minimum wage. Why exactly do we want welfare dollars to flow through employment anyway?
Here is just one example of the problem: Wouldn't it be better to use a targeted program just for poor people, instead of helping some poor people and some teenagers of rich parents?
>>67642791
They're minimum wage everywhere, shitposter is just shitposting again
>>67633046
I think a minimum wage would actually have somewhat of an effect on the way Americans consume. They will go from having 3 taco bells in a shitty town to 1.
Minimum wage ≠ Living wage
>>67633046
>People earning more money would spend more on food and other stuff
>People who only make the 7 or 8 min wage now spend all their money covering basic bills
>Happy employees are better workers
Businesses would benefit in other ways
