Let us talk about Wall Street for a second here /pol/.
Bernie Bots and liberals always quickly mention WALL STREET and nobody fucking knows what they mean by that.
Nobody .. not even conservative republicans think it is great that bankers ripped of the little guy.
Can you figure out what crucial part is missing here?
The good things Wall Street & Banks actually do.
Nobody ever talks about that.
How many people got a loan when they shouldnt have? How many businesses got saved cause good bankers took care of their needs?
How many people didn't lose all their savings.
A lot did but the majority over time def. did not.
So what exactly is the problem with Wall Street/Finance exactly? What do liberals want?
>>67514522
the whole thing is a scam and everyone either knows it or can feel it. but no one wants to say it.
one of my bbas is in finance. i also have a bs in economics and a crap ton of math for that. i can tell you that it is all a ponzi scheme. even money itself is a ponzi scheme. if the central bank prints money, then charges interest on that money, how do they ever expect to get paid the interest? since they haven't printed the money for interest. it is really that simple.
>>67514855
what has that to do with anything
Im just saying everyones only talking about the BAD sides but nobody ever points out the good things.
Its completely stupid and irrational to claim that the whole finance sector is detrimental to society and literally does nothing but rip of people.
>>67515081
the good things have to do with propping up a system that is inevitably due to crash. it is a ponzi scheme. and everyone at this point knows it, but no one wants to say it.
the finance sector of today does nothing but rip off normal people and enrich the people who run it. and if you can't see that then you need to get study finance. but i would recommend studying economics first. because there is no such thing as a free lunch.
The finance sector is one of the main sources of our prosperity. Only people who don't understand how it works hate it. That said deregulation caused a lot of problems
>>67515559
i actually have a BA degree and had a lot of finance
You talk in way too broad terms honestly.
>"nothing but rip off normal people"
ok so .. that guy who wants to build a house for his family and isnt all that credible but still gets a credit to buy one cause his bank trusts him gets ripped off?
how so?
This story played out millions of times and went well for bank and the guy who took the credit.
The housing market crashed and suddenly all banks are evil scammers that sell credits to people who aren't credible and meme the money into products they don't even understand themselves?
Theres no evidence to support these claims. Just because a minority got hit by a minority of bankers everything a bank does is a scam now?
>>67514855
Ahhh yes the old sumerian swindle.
>>67514522
>How many people didn't lose all their savings.
>A lot did but the majority over time def. did not.
The creditors were bailed out by the tax payers. How does this count as a "good thing" Wall Street did?
>>67518876
im not talking about the financial crash of 2008,2009
I mean the majority of people who didnt get scammed over the entire history.
I guess the main reason Sanders is so popular right now and can spout this meme is because his supporters were 12-13 at the time the financial crisis hit and its all they know now.
>>67516184
the mortgage sector used to be insulated. and mortage loans were and even still are very specific. when motgage loans became less regulated the banking industry took advantage and bought all the ones they thought would default. because then they get houses at asking price minus what the original lean holder pays. that is just your specific example of how they are sharks. and the mortage crises only happened because of changes in laws that let the banks do it.
what more do you want to know about? i can try to explain just about anything. how about why the ex new jersey governor didn't ever get indicted when his future trading company somehow made 4 billion dollars disappear. do you know what a future even is? do you know enough to realize that the specific company in question should never have had 4 billion dollars sitting in escrow?
>black man says white man is keeping him down
>white people think black man is crazy and just making excuses
>all just conspiracy theories, racism is over
>cops are in the KKK and actually keep the black man down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMq9i0bd8Y [Embed]
>cops in the kkk believe the jew is keeping them down
>all just conspiracies, none of it is true
fuck white people. awww theyre bullying them guys. its not like they are getting hanged or tortured. god forbid they get heptitis from a vaccine.
>implying the banks do anything good
the entire reason they exist in the first place is to fuck people over.
When you put money into a bank, you are effectively raping your nation and inflating your currency.
>>67519690
>it's a Zeitgeist tard
How was school today? :)
>>67519570
I don't think the problem is the debt/equity system, I think the problem is irresponsible, uneducated people and unscrupulous educated people.
The capital market system would be really good if people focused on growth instead of profit. Companies accomplish tasks in society and capital markets are an extremely effective way to distribute wealth into capital like effective railroads, boats etc. The upward concentration of wealth is an unfortunate byproduct of bad actors in the system.
Example in next post.
>>67520528
Explain how things like fractional reserve banking and interest rates are good for an economy.
>>67520706
>interest rates
Wut? Because you... get an interest on your deposit?
>>67514522
>How many people got a loan when they shouldnt have?
You mean how when the bankers came to collect they ruined the economy 3 years ago? Even now that issue is coming back to haunt us...
>>67521252
you what?
>>67514855
This I why I have to put my money into an Index fund and I still can't be sure it won't vanish by the time I retire.
Fuck Wall Street
Fuck the multinational interests who have destroyed our financial lives
>>67520706
>>67521616
I think we have a language difficulty here.
>>67514522
Most banks don't give out personal loans and I haven't gotten a bail out for shit fuck yall niggas yeah hurr me.
>>67520619
okay so let's assume everyone understands how to buy/sell stock and bonds and how to adequately balance a portfolio for risk/return that suits their lifestyle and plans.
I have this really cool new idea no one else has had for a new product that I know will improve people's lives. Let's say it's a chip heater so people can warm up chips in their home, like a restaurant. (I know it's dumb, just play along like I came up with the new iphone or something).
I'm 100% sure the demand is there and I can sell a million of these if I can just manufacture them + make people aware of them + ship them. I'd made enough profit on them to pay for the initial million plus another million. Unfortunately I don't have enough money to make a million, only like 500.
If I launch with only 500, someone with better resources will see my idea, nab the remaining 999500 units demanded and basically run the business that came from my idea.
So I need some money. What do I do? I go to the debt and equity markets. More in next post.
>>67514522
The heart of fascism is CONTROLLING the capitalist market, policing it so that it does not harm the people.
The system we have today allows for non-Americans to control our country through the markets
Carlos Slim buying a controlling share the NYT in a minor example.
Outsourcing in the past decades has absolutely destroyed our country. The profits did not go to Americans. They went to international elites that have so much money citizenship is irrelevant
Globalization is the sale of Western livelihoods for the benefit of the super rich
Nationalism/light fascism is the only way to protect the poor and the middle classes
>>67514855
>even money itself is a ponzi scheme
Clearly you learned nothing...
>>67519570
Look up the community reinvestment act.
The government forced banks to give risky loans to people who couldn't pay them back.
>>67514522
Like in any high-stakes game, complex strategies will arise. People don't understand them, so they get upset and blame stuff on what they don't understand.
Look at high-frequency trading. It's a 100% natural outcome of having market makers. It reduces spreads, meaning the "little guys" pay less. Except people don't understand this and think "omg fast computers are stealing money". So they propose shit like fees or taxes on HFT, which will increase the costs for end users.
Retards being retards.
>>67522403
except it was the banks that forced the government to make the law. banks literally print money. houses are real property. niggers just paid the first few years of the mortgage.
>>67514522
> Bernie Bots and liberals always quickly mention WALL STREET and nobody fucking knows what they mean by that.
Yes, you do. You either know what we've been saying for years now, or you're too stupid to understand what we're saying, OR (and I'm betting on this one here) you don't care because you weren't told to do so.
>>67519114
Well everyone kinda got scammed since everyone is a taxpayer. Some just got scammed less than the others, those born after got hit the most.
Good things Wall Street does:
allows borrowers to borrow and lenders to lend
discover prices
provide liquidity
distribute risk
Bad things Wall Street does:
don't bear the risk when things go south
too big to fail
>>67514522
It's Liberal's boogey man.
They blame Wall Street because the guys there are rich, deal with a lot of money are are the typical capitalistic "pigs" that communist propaganda shows when they have no argument. Really, they're bankers for large companies and firms,l but there are also stock brokers and traders there as well.
Just think of Wallstreet as the center for US trade and money.
The problem is that not everyone realizes that Wall Street does good and bad.
Let's pretend you have a big business and you make a deal you thought was good. Suddenly shit hits the fan and that deal goes sour. You can ask Wall Street for a loan and this way you won't go out of business, you aren't forced to close down and you don't have to fire people.
That's just one example of Wall St. but people don't understand it's an entire continent of trading back and force along with setting prices and passing money. Wall St is important for America because it keeps the massive businesses afloat, regulates trade and controls the market. Not everyone is cut out for it and that's why it looks so elite. People are just too stupid to handle money. So they bitch and moan and complain about capitalism and fairness. They don't understand how vital it is to everyone's life.
>>67522559
>except it was the banks that forced the government to make the law
Source?
>>67522216
We'll start with how debt is useful to society.
If I'm 100% sure people will buy my product, I can go and get a loan for the money I need to manufacture and market the other 999500 units. I'll give up a portion of my revenue and ultimate profit to the bank for the opportunity of borrowing the money. If things don't work out, my credit goes to hell and everyone knows my business ideas are shit.
But If things work out, now I have enough capital to make more chip warmers and maybe even a new product! I've given people something they enjoy. Cool! I did a thing!
So let's look at those profits. Suppose after everything is covered (paying back the bank which essentially paid for manufacturing + marketing) I've got a bunch of money left.
I really like Doing This Thing and giving people chip warmers they enjoy, but I have to eat, so I'll make just a few less chip warmers than I could, and pay myself that money so I can eat! This is called a DIVIDEND.
The rest of the profit is called RETAINED EARNINGS. I'm gonna spend it all on more chip warmers and maybe a new idea! Cool I'm doing a thing for society and I get to decide how and what that thing is while it feeds me!
Next up is equity.
>>67522559
>banks literally print money
What the fuck are you smoking.
1. thats not how that works
2. printing money had nothing to do with risky loans given to people by banks who had no other choice.
3. The law wasn't force by banks you fucking moron, it was passed by the government to stop "redlining" which is seen as "racist. "redlining" was practiced by banks because they didn't want to invest in certain areas, ie; low income black neighborhoods, because they couldn't pay their shit back and thus banks lose money.
You literally have zero fucking clue what you are talking about.
>>67523603
There is no source, hes full of shit. The CRA was meant to stop discriminatory banking practices that were seen as "racist".
It effectively hurt banks.
>>67524229
>There is no source, hes full of shit
That's what I wanted to imply.
>>67524465
Ah, my apologies Siegfried.
>>67523712
Okay so suppose now that I'm not 100% sure that people are gonna buy my chip thing, only 50%. But I think it'd be a REALLY FUCKING COOL THING if it took off and that if people liked it, they'd REALLY like it. Instead of taking out a loan (also known as issuing debt or a bond) from a bank which requires 100% chance of success, I go find someone who is willing to take more risk, probably a group of people. Assume they're all really busy doing their own cool things that give them money to eat.
But when I convince those people about how cool this thing I wanna do is, they agree so much that they want to share in the coolness! They like me and my idea so much that they think my next ideas are going to be good too and they want to be a part of that. So we agree that instead of me paying back the money they give me, they get to be a part of The Cool Thing I'm Doing. Since they're sharing in it, let's say that I've issued them Shares.
Now, when I go to take some money off the top for me to eat, I'll take a little extra for the others, in proportion to the size of their shares. Now they get to eat too because of This Cool Thing! It's no big that I took a little more off the top, because I don't have to pay a portion of revenue to the bank for covering my cost. In fact, the dividend I paid the shareholders so they can eat can be looked at as similar to what I might have paid the bank.
But something else cool can happen here. Maybe the people already get enough to eat, and instead they all want their dividend to just pay for more chip warmers because they'd like to see even more people get chip warmers! Cool, what an effective system for GETTING SOMETHING DONE.
>>67525017
The problem is that lots of people don't see this as a system for GETTING COOL SHIT DONE EFFECTIVELY, they see it as a system for GETTING MORE TO EAT. People like to eat more than they like to get cool shit done. In the real world, people fuck up the system by doing one of two things:
They lie about getting something cool done, and instead of making chip warmers to trade people for the opportunity to make more chip warmers, they take the money and use it to eat while they lie to everyone about how many chip warmers they're making.
OR
The people who gave someone money because they thought what they were doing was cool end up outnumbering the guy doing the cool thing. Instead of spending money to make more, better chip warmers, they collectively take really big dividends and use them for eating.
OR
Some people don't have time to decide for themselves if the chip warmers are actually going to be good, so they pay someone to find out for them. BUT! They only pay if they decide the chip warmers are good enough to spend money on though. This is a person who REALLY likes to eat, and so they lie about how great my chip warmers are so they can get paid.
Anyway,
>>67514522
that's a layman's description of one of the good things Wall Street does for us. There's also price discovery and asset liquidity, but I don't think anyone even read about the chip warmers and I gotta go study so fuck it. Here's a Mucha.
