http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/ontario-to-test-idea-of-a-guaranteed-minimum-income-to-ease-poverty-1.2815342
You boys ready for our first step towards post-scarcity?
I am hype as fuck.
>>67380308
>money to live and enjoyment arent the same spaces
Wageslave detected
Even though I'm sure you're being sarcastic, I'm actually really interested in seeing how/if it works for you guys up there. I think it's an interesting idea.
>>67380308
you work to get the job done, you fucktard
otherwise you are useless and should not be paid
because paying you for nothing is taking money from someone else
it's called theft
you communist scum
and no, most people are rubbish and the right picture should say a big "fuck it, I'm too lazy to work"
>>67380472
>he thinks we live in a magical land where your job can always he enjoyable and profitable at the same time.
Sure, it happens, but the majority of people don't have the luxury of getting a job based on interest alone.
>>67380570
No sarcasm. I am genuinely hyped and hope that this works out.
>>67380308
Those things on the right don't require being a wagecuck to accomplish. Society works because people are coerced to labor by the threat of poverty. Put in a basic income and workers will quit in droves. The only way it could work is to remove the need for human labor with technology.
I support basic income IF the population is largely homogeneous. Canada and the US are too large and diverse for it to work properly. Well, maybe not Canada--we have much more people in the US than you guys do, so perhaps it's different there.
But there's nothing wrong with basic income in theory--it's only when the SJWs get to it and make it borderline unrecognizable that it becomes an issue.
>>67380747
People who have a shit work ethic now will still have one with a basic income, same applies to people with a strong work ethic.
>>67380858
That is correct. Basic income is the first step in social acceptance of automation.
It means that while this generation may recoil in disgust at the nanny state, the next one will be receptive to robots taking over shit jobs.
>>67380308
the minimum wage is a way to kill the civilization
by making it unprofitable to work at all
sorry, my time is worth more than the difference between my wage and the (high enough) minimum one
but guess what - someone has to work
otherwise everyone will be in poverty very soon
communism fucked up your heads, you morons
I hope you all die
>thinking we're anywhere near the level of progress to make something like this feasible
Good idea, for 2200.
>>67380308
Replacing most of public services and welfare programs with basic income would be incredibly efficient. If Ontario just adds basic income to their list of social program, then it is fucked
>>67381022
>People who have a shit work ethic now will still have one with a basic income
no you moron
they will quit
because they will value their time more than doing some shitty job for most of their lifetime and getting slightly more for it
so, who will replace them? those decent workers with strong work ethic?
no, they will say: fuck it, I'm not going to work for those lazy faggots
and they will rebel against this unfair socialism
unless it is enforced, ergo communism
killing millions of 'bad' people opposing it
this is as plan of destroying the civilized countries of the West
>>67380924
Well. That's what happens to all ideas when idiots get to them haha.
>>67381026
But minimum wage doesn't imply minimum living wage. It's just a little extra given to you to boost your income. There are many studies supporting the idea that when people worry less about money they perform better at their job.
>>67381144
What we do now lays the groundwork for future generations.
>>67381225
That is the plan, they want to gut most welfare programs and replace them with this.
>>67380308
If basic income would play out as the image suggests it would be a good idea.
The truth is that many people would just do drugs and watch TV all day.
>>67380924
>it's only when the SJWs get to it and make it borderline unrecognizable that it becomes an issue.
In that case it's not basic income.
The idea of basic income is the epitome of fairness. Everyone, from the richest CEO to every member of parliament to people living on the street to college students working at Starbuck get the exact same amount every month as part of basic income.
When you do this, you can eliminate hundreds of not *thousands* of social programs, and all their overhead (which is often more than they actually pay out).
And just that 8.5% reduction in hospital use is huge. In Quebec, 51% of the provinces trillion dollar budget goes to health care. That's some huge savings from just that.
Honestly basic income is something all of /pol/ should get behind because it means much smaller government, much simpler government, much less government intervention, and it makes people responsible for their success or failure.
The only problem is if the government still steps in to help out the people who fail even with basic income. Doing that will end up breaking it. And it's very likely to happen because bleeding hearts bleed.
>>67381407
>no you moron
>they will quit
But that's not what happened every time this was tried.
Individuals don't quit their jobs, but they work fewer hours or do less over time.
Across the board, more people work because people are now willing to do part time, low paying jobs that they couldn't live off of before, but can now.
If you read the article, the only groups that stop working are new mothers and teen boys.
>>67381791
Yes, but then consider the reality: black Americans in Detroit receive their basic income and spend it on crack and spinning rims, and their kids starve to death. Then the harpies in the media cry about how basic income be raciss.
See?
Honestly, I wouldn't work if I recieved basic income.
I would completely isolate myself, drink/dudeweed and play video games every day.
Obviously the average person in my age is not like me, but I think basic income would only encourage this type of behavior.
>>67380308
>tfw work a good paying office job in IT
I wouldn't self improve, meet people, or help my community regardless of if I worked or not. I dicked around throughout my entire 20's and only held odd jobs and even with spare time I didn't do anything constructive.
In fact working has given me more of a purpose and I am far more sociable and motivated to better myself.
>>67381407
Basic income does not imply a living wage. It's just an extra amount of money put on top of your usual earnings, making life a little bit easier. Which in turn has so many more benefits that cause a chain reaction.
While I am no communist, I'd like to point out that you are basing most of your assumptions on the Soviets and their sattelites. You are getting mad at a system that exists purely on paper. Your real beef should be with the people that ran it. Same applies to people who recoil in horror at the mention of facism because their only understanding of it comes for NAZI Germany.
>>67381695
Not necessarily since basic income isn't a living wage, it's just an extra amount.
>>67381791
This nigga gets it. Small increases in income account for longer, happier and healthier lives. Canada currently spends obscene amounts on welfare, replacing it with basic income will cut those costs by 50% or so. Not to mention the social ramifications of basic income. People will genuinely be kinder to eachother.
>waaah, what do you mean I can't buy a $30,000 car, $500,000 house, and thousands of dollars worth of new clothes while working at McDonalds?
Why are liberals so god damn stupid?
>>67380308
Daily remider that 99% of america is the first person.
>>67380308
>>67381791
Everyone gets same amount of money every month. Stupid people still piss away their money and are left with nothing. Smart people still save their money and pass savings on to children. Inequality continues unabated.
>>67381976
>Then the harpies in the media cry about how basic income be raciss.
I know this may happen, but because of the fairness of basic income, it would also be very possible for it to put the onus solely on the person who fails with it. As long as the vast majority ends up better off with it, then it's easy to prove that the people who fail with it are their own problem, not the program itself.
It's much harder to spin into a narrative of racism when EVERYONE gets the same thing. When it could not possibly be more fair.
>>67382198
So people still have to work to live, but receive extra FREE money for weed and tf2 hats?
Does not compute
>>67382370
Truth.
As a NEET I can say that it starts off being about self improvement and creativity, but it eventually degrades into masturbating 4 times a day and crying yourself to sleep when you realized another day has gone by and you have nothing to show for it but poor hygiene and the incessant thought of suicide.
>>67382545
>I know this may happen, but because of the fairness of basic income, it would also be very possible for it to put the onus solely on the person who fails with it.
I think you are naive. This almost never happens, because, frankly, whenever you have equal opportunity, you have disparate outcome, because people are inherently unequal. Not just racially, either--every single individual is an individual by definition because he or she is not perfectly equal to anyone else.
I think you're probably just young and underexposed. I understand your position but I'm far too jaded, having seen firsthand all of the formerly equal opportunity policies turn into racial preferences for minorities. It simply can't work in today's society.
>>67382370
Basic income isn't that much money. Most places it was tried, it isn't enough for an apartment and a car unless you get roommates and a very cheap car.
>>67382381
But in this case, inequality is clearly the fault of the people, and there is no way to spin it otherwise.
Even better when you get stories of people saving their basic income and using it as the foundation for a small business or investments.
Again, it puts the blame on the people, with no way to spin it otherwise.
>>67382198
>Basic income does not imply a living wage
This is an important distinction, although the effect would just be, as you say, to make life a little bit easier. It would not do much to alter the reality of needing to work just to live. Furthermore, the positive effects could be cancelled out by employers lowering wages to account for the basic income.
>>67382747
>Again, it puts the blame on the people, with no way to spin it otherwise.
agreed with you right up until here
In a sane world, you'd be right
We don't live in a sane world
>>67381022
>the first step
No if it is viable, which is debatable, it is absolutely not the first step for anyone but retards
The income would be very little, probably no more than what a minimum wage job would pay you. There would be plenty of incentive to work.
>>67382743
>having seen firsthand all of the formerly equal opportunity policies turn into racial preferences for minorities.
But none of those were equal. That's the thing. All government programs, especially in the USA, are very unequal, unfair. They work differently for different races or places. This is what people use to spin their results as enforcing racism or whatever, even if you and I both know that only the people are to blame.
But there's no way to spin basic income. It's too simple and too fair.
And just to be clear: I know full well that the people who fail at their lives currently will STILL fail at their lives with basic income. But now they will have no one to blame but themselves, and everyone will see and know this. The good will is going to vanish very fast.
Hopefully they drop it soon. Putting your livelihood in the hands on the state sounds like a time bomb.
>>67382693
and not that EVERYONE is like that
but if you've looked at history, it has been proven again and again that the more you give people, the more they abuse it.
Now I'm not saying that justifies enslaving everyone and taking all rights away you giddy fucking logical faggots but really if you take away incentive for people to work... why would you work?
To self improve? You can do that at bars and with netflix (or whatever people choose but it sure as fuck won't be working at subway). To better my community? People don't give a shit about community if they have to do anything for it.
This idea only works if everyone has good selfless morals and that is hard as shit to find in people.
>>67383014
>>But none of those were equal. That's the thing. All government programs, especially in the USA, are very unequal, unfair. They work differently for different races or places. This is what people use to spin their results as enforcing racism or whatever, even if you and I both know that only the people are to blame.
This is just not true, there are countless examples of minorities who have had equal or more opportunity and yet who still, as a population, end up worse despite their opportunity.
I'm sorry, Canada--it just can't work
You're preaching to the choir, though. If you and I were in a country together made up of people like us, I'd love to vote for basic income. But it just can't work here, and probably can't work there, either.
>>67383051
You aren't taking away incentive to work, though.
You just give them an extra amount of money monthly to supplement their income.
Practically, this means that John doesn't need to bust his ass overtime, come back home to an empty pantry, and still be worried about getting more money.
It means he will skip that extra shift that he now doesn't need, giving it to someone who needs it, and will instead buy something nice for himself, like a new shirt, or higher quality food, or a gym membership. This will boost John's happiness and will then make him a kinder, more productive member of society. This has happened where they tried basic income.
>>67383226
>But it just can't work here, and probably can't work there, either.
I'm from Quebec specifically, which is still very homogeneous culturally and racially. Our median income is also very close to our average income, so inequality is low. Basic income might work fine here.
At least I hope it does. Anything to make our government smaller...
>>67383674
I'm sorry, Quebecbro
>>67383674
>Anything to make our government smaller
As someone who supports basic income, I'll say this: You're not going to win over right wingers on this issue, so don't throw out ridiculous platitudes like "smaller government". They are fundamentally against the concept of equality, and will never support this idea in the first place.
>>67380786
>hope that this works out.
>guaranteed income
>nobody works
>every business goes bankrupt
>no more tax dollars for guaranteed income
>mad max when
golly, who could've seen this coming
>>67380308
Is basic income just like a negative income tax?
Welfare doesn't improve society, it just keeps the lower rings from complete proverty. What does expanding welfare to everyone seek to acomplish?
>>67384131
As someone who supports the general idea of basic income purely because it would reduce bureaucracy and cost less overall I can tell you you're wrong.
>>67380308
It means abolition of other welfare payments, right? Then wouldn't those who actually need welfare receive less than they are doing now while the people who earn enough will get even more?
>>67381026
indeed
>>67384864
keeps people voting for the liberals that give it to them
>>67380308
You forgot third head with a headline 'Humans reasons not to work' and just one bubble saying Basic income.
>>67384131
>You're not going to win over right wingers on this issue
No such thing in Quebec. Our most right wing party would make you think Berny Sanders was right wing.
>>67380308
WOA!
In theory, automation should be the ultimate road to a society that works very little and has a high standard of living.
>>67381791
Or you could just eliminate the social programs AND not do a basic income.
That's even LESS Government intervention and even more /pol/ approved.
>>67380308
Do you want 'berta and Saskatchewan to join the US? I'm not paying for your weapons grade autism while we struggle through a massive recession.
>>67380308
>post-scarcity
Why is this meme still around, post scarcity will never fucking happen in anyone's lifetime for any reason. This is a fairy tale. Something that people who have never once considered basic principles of economics put blind faith in because they're either uninformed, indoctrinated or retarded.
I seriously hope you're merely the first.
>>67383031
Ontario is already in a huge debt hole, it's scary, this communism thing. Obviously to qualify will require full anal probing by the state but degenerates don't care, they will enable communism for the gibmedats. Immigrants are already getting free gibmedats for a year, well above median incomes for working people already here.
>>67386432
But then, you have a group of citizens who, regardless of circumstances, will simply not work. Once they get hungry they turn to crime and other bullshit. All of a sudden you are paying way more for the damage they are causing than simply giving them some money.
>>67382370
Yeah that makes zero sense.
This image is more accurate.
I support basic income.
>>67388302
So I'm being held hostage by these degenerates who can't solve their own problems?
I'd rather pay 100 dollars to see them rot in our prison system than give them a free 10 dollars they don't deserve. If I have to spend some kind of money on these low life's, I'd rather it be not be so they can live without working and smoking dank weed everyday.
>>67380308
rate my oc
>>67388302
Unemployment used to be less than one percent in this country, even for blacks during Jim Crow
>>67380308
>this retard unironically voted trudeau
>>67389102
probably because earning a living didn't have to be government sanctioned to make sure you were paying your income tax properly like a good go- i mean citizen :^)
daily reminder income tax is only a century old
>>67380308
lol, Ontario is bankrupt! This is all smoke and mirrors for Wynne to steal what little non-Government wages are left in this province, along with the carbon tax.
>>67380308
This image makes no sense. Sure a lot of people would still do some form of work even if they got their money anyway but the work would be much less useful.
Imagine a world where people with gender studies degrees actually got jobs outside McDonalds and what an inefficient waste of time that would be.
>>67389557
There's also the issue that no one would want to work as a ditch digger, burger flipper, sewage worker, etc., unless wages for those jobs skyrocketed
>>67380308
soooo you get money just for breathing???
>>67380308
>You boys ready for our first step towards post-scarcity?
God dammit Canada, that's not what post-scarcity means.
Post scarcity means there is no material want that can't be satisfied for free.
It goes against our very nature. We are beings who consume and achieve.
We exist in a struggle against nature. If you do not struggle, you die. Industrialization has changed the world into jobs/wages vs subsistence farming.
>>67389032
>self improvement still in
you tried
2/10
>>67392112
<:^3
>>67389032
replace self-improvement on the after side with drugs
>>67393136
>That flag
Ooh, I wanna take ya
>>67382693
>I was an irresponsible asshole when provided with what I needed, so everyone else will do the same.
