https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUXwDMqjC-A
Who won this debate /pol/?
Bernie, because Rand's argument is childish and retarded.
>>67350354
If we're just talking your image, then Bernie. Rand's argument is literal autism.
>>67350354
That's some pretty poor logic, Rand.
Are Government Contractors slaves because they work for the government?
Are the FBI slaves?
>>67350483
hello claude
>>67350616
Who has a right to the FBI's protection?
Rand, anyone who disagrees does not understand what a right is or why you cannot have positive rights.
inb4
>lolbertarian
I think libertarianism is a joke for 16 year olds who just grew out of anarchy.
>>67350354
Rand sounds like Stephen Molyneux
"DOES THE GUBMENT WANT ME SHOT?"
>>67350746
Everyone except for criminals?
>>67350746
this
you >>67350616 don't understand what a right is
And if we're going down this road, we already have a right to an attorney. It backs the legal system up by months, years until you get either a failed 40+ year old female hispanic attorney that doesn't give two fucks or someone fresh out of DeVry because nobody else wants to do that work. I can't wait to have a mexican educated Consuela do my heart surgery because bernie sanders says I'm not allowed to pay for my own health insurance.
>>67350354
It's funny because right in the video, the problem that rand is talking about comes up.
Difficulties medicaid beneficiaries have in finding a physician.
>"There are many physicians who are unwilling to accept medicaid patients"
Why?
Because medicaid doesn't pay enough.
Bernie wants to force them to accept medicaid. The only way this could be done is by drastically lowering the top tier level of care available to anybody (because it's too expensive).
One does not have a right to a service. You don't have the right to have a doctor work for you or anyone else. How ever it is in the government's best interest to give certain services like a fire department and police.
If you can't understand this you may be stupid and or communist
>>67350801
>Everyone except for criminals?
Nope, they don't. Neither you or I have a right to their protection.
In fact, nobody does.
You don't have a right to protection from any government agency.
>>67350354
Both of them are idiots, the argument against "free" healthcare is that quality of care plummets to it's lowest sustainable level because there's no direct profit to be made.
>>67350910
Junior doctors in the UK have been striking for over three months right now.
The proposed solution by politicians is to make it illegal for them to strike.
Junior doctors starting out work 60-80+ hours a week and make the equivalent of roughly $32,000/year before taxes. And this is after they do 6-8+ years of schooling and residency.
A junior doctor with 4 years of training makes $43,000/year before taxes. An entry level junior doctor makes lower wages than an accountant in the UK.
Source:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/11887308/How-much-are-junior-doctors-paid-and-why-are-they-threatening-to-strike.html
Remember, socialism — not even once.
>>67350354
I think rand had a good(better) point than bernie, but described it in a terrible way(slavery, comin to get meh)
Then bernie asked a shit kicker nurse or some shit what her opinion was because what rand said also could apply to her(gobment gonna get meh) and of course it's not the same thing because he's an actual doctor and elected politician and she might as well be a fucking nobody, but sympathy is going to lay with her and bernie.
They're both spurges.
>>67350483
>EU flag
Nigger what in the fuck
>>67351068
Rand wasn't arguing against free healthcare, he was arguing against the right to healthcare.
There's a massive difference here, people need to stop throwing around the word "right".
Look, I can even trigger /pol/ right now:
Nobody in USA has a right to own a firearm.
You have a right to bear firearms.
The former implies the US government must supply you with a firearm if you do not have one, and will conscript gunsmiths to do it.
>>67351133
Posting from work, Workplace is on neutral EU-based network.
>>67350910
medicaid is such shit. my father is a doctor and he wont accept it, neither will most qualified doctors. its not fair for them to bust their asses to become doctors when theyll just get fucked over by the government which will barely pay them. all the shit doctors allow medicaid, not the good ones.
>>67350354
How come Bernie has no neck?. Is he lizard ppl?
Hes looks like a half burnt shit candle.
>>67350354
While Bernie may be a cuck, Rand's slavery argument is just flat out retarded
>>67351302
its true. doctors will be beholden to the whims of the masses and not make the money they need. medicaid pays shit. forcing doctors to perform based upon medicaid funds is ludicrous. healthcare is a privilege not a right
>>67350976
Unless they are instructed to do so.
>>67350910
>>67351264
you're referring to medicare
medicaid just partially covers your payments, it's basically for poor people
medicare is the shit disabled and old people get that is virtually worthless and you still have to pay a monthly fee on top of it despite us spending nearly a third of our entire budget on it
>>67351302
It's not if you follow the actual argument, Bernie is suggesting slavery by saying you have a right to healthcare.
Words mean things.
>>67350354
Rand is right. He could've made his argument without bringing up slavery though.
The rights we have are things that are protected against government encroachment.
This kinds of rights to items and services that Bernie believes in if applied to let's say the Second Amendment would mean the government would be required to furnish me a gun and ammo.
The government isn't preventing you from getting healthcare, so you already have that right.
>>67350354
This is why doctors don't exist in countries with socialized medicine.
Oh wait, no that's wrong. Rand must be a shitty doctor if he doesn't want to help as many people as he can.
>>67351921
see
>>67351094
P.S., you don't understand what a right is
>>67350354
Sanders won.
Randy doesn't understand theat the doctor always gets paid. "Free" healthcare means it's "free at the point of use". It doesn't mean "free" as in "free beer".
Randy is a strawmanning idiot.
>>67352224
You don't understand what a right is.
>>67351145
this is how i understood the OP pic
>>67352224
Free healthcare means someone other than you will pay for it.
That someone other than you will need to work for you to receive an expensive treatment.
That someone might be totally against doing that because he may believe you spend way too much money on the casino while he tries to save for a house, yet he's forced to do it under the threat of being punished if he doesn't.
Starts sounding like slavery, doesn't it?
>>67352239
Neither do you.
>>67352787
>Free healthcare means someone other than you will pay for it.
No, you pay for it.
Payment is indeirect via taxation. You're paying for health care even when you're not ill; it's a form of "Social Insurance".
The right to health care can be most accurately compared to the right to k-12 education.
Specialized doctors should cost more out of pocket, but ER coverage, for instance, should not mean the difference of hundreds or thousands of dollars. Compartively, k-12 should not cost 5k a semester. College should not cost 5k a semester either, but those seeking above the status quo pay more.
ER visits for the insured is 60. Uninsured is an average of 1200, 20x the amount of those who can afford coverage, which is about 250 monthly. Low income families and individuals will most likely be crippled by an medical emergency, both physically and financially. And then 20x so for those who couldn't afford insurance that month.
Accidents and medical emergencies are a part of living. They happen to most everyone, making it a human condition. Health care is a human right, it should not be made nearly impossible for anyone.
On the issue of doctors receiving fair compensation for years of college work and debt, that is another issue more to do with education.
>>67352239
Call it a fundamental freedom then. Semantics.
