Daily reminder: The reason why the CCP controls China today was entirely due to the japs. It was because of the second sino-Japanese war that weaken the nationalists (who did most of the fighting) that in turn allowed the commies to take advantage and later win the civil war. So ya cultural revolution, Mao Zedong, millions that died from starvation it was the hirohitos fault.
t. Someone currently doing research on modern Chinese history.
>>67103888
They paid for it though.
>>67103888
If the nationalists had won the war this country would be so great, probably as developed as Japan or Korea even. Communists, or at least Mao Zedong, were the worst thing to happen to China in centuries.
>>67103888
REMOVE SINO
REMOVE SINO
JAPAN REAL ASIAN COUNTRY
CHINA FAKE DUMB SUBHUMAN
HIROHITO DID NOTHING WRONG
>>67104259
Ya China would have been a great us ally and a highly developed country probably surpassing Japan or Korea. the 20th century fucked the Chinese.
>>67104442
Japan wouldn't exist in the first place if it wasn't for Chinese, specifically Tang Dynasty, culture. I commend the Japanese on their successful development however, I just hope China can have its own Meiji restoration.
Technically you're right, I guess. But who isn't already aware of that? And it wasn't entirely the Jap's fault, the communists avoided fighting and purposely waited for the nationalists to exhaust themselves.
>>67104553
More like 19th and 20th. The British had a real hard on for fucking China's shit up, then pretty much every other developed country joined in on the abuse. I hope in the next century China can make a big comeback, I think given 60 years Japan might start having a run for its money.
>>67103888
you are a retard and cherry picking an indirectly related event and assigning it full responsibility because you're biased and/or stupid. this is as idiotic as blaming the Austo-Hunagiarians and the German Empire for the existence of the Soviet Union and their atrocities.
Mao and the CCP are responsible for their actions not Japan.
>>67104680
""(Japan) doesn't have to say sorry, you had contributed towards China, why? Because had Imperial Japan did not start the war of invasion, how could we communist became mighty powerful? How could we stage the coup d'état? How could we defeat Chiang Kai Shek? How are we going to pay back you guys? No, we do not want your war reparations!"
t. Mao Zedong.
>>67103888
this is interesting because the entire asian culture is truly fucked from the ground up and asia is nothing but a mere slave to western culture now
not sure if this is a force of satan and the elite monarchy of earth, or because the chinks needed to be controlled or else they would have arisen to become a future threat
>>67104830
>Implying das deutschen didn't create the USSR
>>67104733
to be honest, the chinese fucked themselves up as much or worse than the british did. it took until after the boxer rebellion for them to change their shit, and that was after a century of internal and external crises that were never really solved. hell, even after the boxer rebellion the court's prerogative was preserving manchu power.
>>67103888
no doubt OP, but let's not play down how hilariously incompetent the nationalists were. by the end of it all they were literally roping up dudes and forcing them to fight for them, while the economy got so fucked that the barter system returned and taxes were paid in kind.
>>67104918
A large part of the blame does go to the Qing government to be honest. I still think it was kind of scummy, especially of England, to act like a drug trafficker inside of the borders of China with their opium.
>>67105015
Nationalists were under all sorts of predicaments, no one ever gave them a chance. China continued to get butt fucked by every relatively developed country, not even western super powers like England and France, but also small timers like Austria Hungary and Italy and then Japan too. If the train of abuse had stopped in 1911 and the KMT were given a chance to actually administer China, history would have been so different.
>>67104916
they didn't. they Soviet Union came about because of a variety of circumstances both in and out of the Russian Empire as well as events that started long before 1917. it's as complicated with communist China and not quite simplistic as blaming the Japanese.
>>67105031
no argument here. i think the qing's major fault was not really committing to modernization until about 1901, and allowing what modernization that did occur to not be a state-wide, state-led process but done by and for local strongmen like li hongzheng and zeng guofan. whenever either one of those guys moved, all their progress was uprooted and taken with them.
plus continuing with a silver-based currency when you have to import the silver since your country has little silver mines just sets the stage for a huge financial crisis. the british really maximized this with the opium trade, all that silver leaving.
>>67105031
Should have given us a better price on your delicious tea. Getting between Britain and her tea is like getting between a bear and her cubs.
>>67105246
You do know the Krauts send back a banished Lenin, right? They most certainly play a very big role in the creationil of the USSR.
>>67105147
japan was hardly a small timer after 1895, but that is it's own argument.
KMT weren't really given a chance, but yuan shikai really fucked them early on too. he didn't commit to having a real parliament and tried to modernize through the military, setting up the vicious cycles of military modernizers(warlords) vs party modernizers(KMT) eventually allowing the CCP sit back and watch those two wear themselves out, or play themselves against each other.
>>67105561
yes and no. they knew lenin could really stir up some shit, but it was hardly a given he would succeed as wildly as he did. IMO kerensky re-committing russia to the war gave lenin his crucial opening.
Oh. And also, no gommunist China =/= North Korea.
>>67105561
yes and no. they knew lenin could really stir up some shit, but it was hardly a given he would succeed as wildly as he did. IMO kerensky re-committing russia to the war gave lenin his crucial opening...
>>67103888
Wrong, it mostly came down to Chiang Kai-Shek being a shitty leader and a fuckload of help from the Russians
The japs in WW2 was a factor but without it the PLA would have beaten them eventually
>>67105649
Sauce?
>>67103888
>the JAPS did it
look, if we are pointing fingers lets go all the way.
What caused the sino-japanese war? what caused the cause? what caused the cause to the cause? sooner or later we will go back to the chinease again. or the jews, if you want to be derpy about it.
Nations should take responsibility for their actions. So do their people.
>>67105561
you're doing the same stupid thing OP is, isolating one particular indirect event and assigning it greater importance than it deserves. how about we blame the university he went to? his parents for giving birth to him? Finland for smuggling him back to Russia? you can go on and on with spurious reasoning
>>67105402
But the Brits only discovered tea from China, it was China's right to sell its own fate at its own prices, Nige. They did discover it and cultivate it for thousands of years is all.
>>67105332
Yeah, I don't think the Qing ever could have seriously modernized China with the rigid attitude of theirs. It wasn't like when Japan figured out just how backwards they were and whipped up a modernization campaign which was very successful within a few decades. There was too much power hunger and ideological stagnancy in the Manchu government.
>>67105566
I phrased that wrong. What I meant was it wasn't just Western super powers but also lesser powers and Japan, which would classify as neither since it isn't western.
Yuan definitely wasn't their guy guy for the job. I think Chiang gets more hate than he deserves. He could have done something better I think if the Japanese didn't begin their invasion.
>>67105722
Chiang was an alright leader. It was Yuan Shikai who was a shit leader and the Japanese invasion that stopped Chiang from being a Park Chung hee for China.
>>67105755
don't having something easily accessable off-hand besides wiki(totally sucks ass on more nuanced topics, never trust it besides broad topics). the gist of it is basically that the empire was in an absolutely dire straights, big financial crisis, heavy repression, and food problems. nobody in russia wanted the war in 1914, and certainly not after the kept getting their asses kicked.
when kerensky formed government after the revolution, he had financial help from the allies as the 'moderate' leader. they didn't want to kick off a civil war in russia by insisting on the return of the tsar because they badly needed russia still in the fight(america not yet involved) on the eastern front to tie up the germans/austrians. kerensky badly needed the money, and thought that a major victory in the war would bolster his government. it failed badly. the bolsheviks tried a coup in the summer of 1917 but it failed. when they tried again in october, it succeeded. it was largely bloodless too, despite the hype surrounding it. kerensky and co. were that hated.
germans just released lenin into russia to keep the government unstable. he was basically like ayatollah khomeini in iran 1979. prominent exile who people WOULD listen to. whether or not they succeeded was another matter altogether, but the germans felt confident they could negotiate with him if he did end up taking power. which they did, see brest-litovsk.
>>67106013
>But the Brits only discovered tea from China, it was China's right to sell its own fate at its own prices, Nige. They did discover it and cultivate it for thousands of years is all.
Certainly, but I think you're underestimating our insatiable lust for tea. It eclipses even the American lust for oil.
>>67106013
chiang was really in a damned if you do, damned if you don't. led the northern expedition to really crush the northern warlords and forced the rest into servitude. this diversion of forces allowed the CCP to establish the jiangxi soviet. so, he diverted forces to dealing with that and was thus forced to leave the remaining warlords intact, albeit nominally serving him. then the japanese invade and he got really fucked. bad news for him.
only major thing i would fault him for would be insisting on moving troops into manchuria after the japanese evacuated it at the end of the war. the americans rightly advised him that his forces were decimated, stretched thin, and the CCP VERY strong in manchuria due to soviet support, plus other things. he chose not listen and garrisoned the cities while the CCP absolutely dominated the countryside.
>>67105800
jews in kaifeng, zionist conspiracy confirmed.
>>67106103
>chiang was an alright leader
>kidnapped by your own generals and forced to fight the japs
>helped, trained and supplied by nazi germans AND americans over the course of the civil war
>airlifted into cities by the americans while gommies have to fight japs that the US told to not surrender yet
>still lost a war against literal peasants
What the Koreans and Japs lack that the Chinese do not is pure malice and evil.
A type of shrewdness that only Jews can surpass.
Whilst Japan and Korea had economic downturns after their booms, China won't because of advanced shekel manipulation.
