chaotic in nature? So is Cameron trying to win the Brexit referendum by having the discussion being all over the place with especially the LEAVE arguments being pretty much all about nationalism and immigration, which is not what really can sway people from the center to vote LEAVE?
Even more so, has Cameron a secret agreement with Boris Johnson for him to be the lead of the LEAVE campaign, derailing it from the "front"?
>>67101062
I love you German bro's. But fuck the EU.
It's centralisation of power & governed by pisstits.
Worse part, they think they are ideologically pure. This is why it's so dangerous. Anyone who wholly believes their own shit can b justify doing the most deplorable things.
Immigration will sway people to be fair. Stories coming out of Europe of sex attacks from refugees, true or not, stoke fears about protecting our borders. Ironically, leaving the EU would make our borders less secure as theyre currently in France but if we left the EU, our border checks would go back to being in the UK as I doubt the French would be so willing to cooperate with us
I dont think theres a Boris/Cameron conspiracy going on, Boris has just realised that Cameron is fucked whatever happens in the referendum and seen an opportunity to take control of the party. If Britain votes to leave then Cameron would be forced out of his job as he lead the Stay campaign. If Britain votes to stay hes gonna have a load of pissed off Tory MPs and party members who wanted to leave to deal with and they'll force him out. Boris has realised the referendum is lose/lose for Cameron, but positioning himself as the figurehead in opposition to Cameron is win/win for him
For the record, I'm gonna vote to stay in the EU, i think Europe is stronger together. No individual nation in Europe can compete with the US, China or the emerging economies, but together we're the most powerful trading block in the world. A lot of things need changing about the EU but we should be making those changes instead of leaving and isolating ourselves
>>67101062
The government has always been very divided even if there was going to be a referendum, and when it would be. It looks like they've put on a brave face on it but it has all collapsed at the last minute.
Usually politicians especially the tories are clear about these things but it is a real hot potato for us now. It's how meme parties like UKIP get away with even existing
>>67101886
>For the record, I'm gonna vote to stay in the EU
So are you saying the discussion until now has been informative?
The whole immigration stuff will only sway those who would have voted out anyway.
Brexit will only happen if people like you see the benefit of a LEAVE vote.
>>67102035
There is fear mongering about tariff wars etc.
Reality is
UK - China,
Uk-india (rest of commonwealth)
Could setup tariff free trade deals before the week is done.
This idea EU makes us strong is a joke.
Instead of being a strong independent nation like Japan, we are a collection of weak parts that make a big machine...that doesn't function correctly.
Pro EU suffer from Stockholm syndrome
The world is bigger than Europe.
Our hunger & desire stretches beyond these borders.
>>67101886
> Ironically, leaving the EU would make our borders less secure as theyre currently in France but if we left the EU, our border checks would go back to being in the UK as I doubt the French would be so willing to cooperate with us
You're literally a child and know nothing. Immigration in the 90's was not an issue whatsoever because we deported people at the drop of a hat. There were no Human Rights Act bullshit. It was just a quick process and you're out.
You really don't know anything. Really. You really don't know a fucking thing.
>>67102035
Not at all informative, just been scaremongering from both sides. But im just of the opinion that the EU is good for us in a lot of ways, whereas leaving benefits nobody but big business and Boris.
Leaving wont stop immigration at all, not if we want trade deals with the EU, theyd still want free movement of labour in return.
All this talk of making deals with the BRIC nations is stupid aswell, Britain is seen as attractive to those sort of trade deals because those nations see us as a foothold into the wider EU
The days of the Empire are long gone, we cant go it alone in the modern world anymore, the little Englander mentality of "baaaah, not having a Frenchman tell me how curvy my banana should be" just doesnt help Britain these days. The world has moved on and we have to move with it or be left behind
>>67102837
Immigration in the 90s wasnt an issue because the economy was doing well. Immigration only becomes an issue when theres problems at home.
So there wasnt an issue with immigration in the 50s/60s when the carribeans came over?
In the 70s when the asians and Irish came over?
People having a problem with immigration isnt a new thing that started when a load of Polish bricklayers arrived in the early 2000s.
>>67102837
This.
Someone who buys into the story about closing border control is so under the media thumb.
Not realising we could do as we please
>>67102972
>literally says we can't go it alone
>then calls his opponents 'little Englander' after he's slated England/uks potential.
You can't make this retarded shit up.
These are the idiots we have to deal with.
>>67103233
Again mate, you don't know a fucking thing. You're clutching at straws. I can only assume you're a shill.
If you were older than 12 you would perhaps know what you're talking about.
Let me end the argument by saying this:
Historic immigration levels were but a fraction of what they are now.
You're a kid and you're buying the globalist propaganda. Or a shill and getting paid to spread it.
How inclined do you think the French would be to allow us to have our border in Calais if we left the EU?
And how inclined to give a fuck about refugees leaving France for Britain do you think their border officers would be?
Once in Britain these people could claim asylum, something they have to do on British soil. And we'd have to process all those claims
This idea that leaving the EU means we wouldnt be subject to Human Rights laws is nonsense. The European Convention on Human Rights was signed in 1950 or something. Decades before the EU existed
Leaving the EU will make it no easier to deport asylum seekers, it will mean we have 10 times as many. We wouldnt have to allow as many Polish builders or Hungarian barmaids in, but frankly I'd rather the Poles and Hungarians than the Iraqis and Syrians here
>>67102972
> Free trade with mandatory free movement of peoples
Concern troll detected.
This is so far from reality.
Have you seen our trade deficit recently. They are not going to cease trading with us because Hans and François can't move to the UK to work. It's only the shittest low skill losers who want to come here.
Stop shilling for the EU.
>>67103900
So your entire argument for staying in the EU boils down to the fact that you think France is holding our borders hostage?
Isn't that even more of a reason to leave the EU so that we can, I don't know, actually get control of those borders again?
As for your point about immigrants coming over the channel; Who says we have to let them in to this country in the first place? With proper border controls on our own soil there would be literally nothing stopping us from sending the immigrants back to Calais. If we actually started doing it consistently then it would dissuade people from even trying to get across the channel as they'd realize that there would be no point to making the journey if they weren't going to be let in to the country after making the crossing.
>>67103900
We leave the EU and we'll literally do away with the Human Rights Act overnight which is what asylum seekers use to game the system.
Then it doesn't matter how many asylum seekers turn up at the border, they get a quick assessment, fingerprinted etc. and thrown the fuck back from whence they came.
You seemingly don't know shit about how our laws work and where they came from.
>>67103900
Genuine asylum seekers don't travel 1/4 of the world. They go to the nearest safe space.
UK is in a difficult position because most these people can speak English & therefore they are trying to setup a new life here as economic migrants.
>>67104385
forgot to mention we should be able to ship the immigrants back to calais on proper boats with some cheapo sandwiches instead of on illegal dinghies. We could probably repurpose old ferries at ports like Dover and Portsmouth in order to accomplish this.
You can't ship people without papers back to their home countries and you can't prove from whence they came either. Britain will be fucked if it opts out of Human Rights and immigration accords.
>>67105206
Why not sink boats famalam? We only stopped because of EU so who's going to stop Britain?
>>67105206
>You can't ship people without papers back to their home countries
You don't have to let them past your border either. There are a million things we can do to get rid of them. It takes five minutes to prove where a claimant is from using language specialists. You vastly underestimate the efficiency of the UK outside of the EU.
I've got news for you. We're coming out. This is going to happen. And the UK will flourish. And we'll keep the hordes offshore in ships in international jurisdiction until they beg to go home.
>>67101062
>a secret agreement
How do you know about it op?
>>67106160
>How do you know about it op?
Internet, Britbong. It is all there. Do you not see it?
>>67101886
>Bongs literally believe that they'll get out the the EU
M8, youre even more delusional than I thought. In what world would the powers that be (call them shadow government, illuminaughty, the Druid Council. Whatever) allow Britain to leave the EU?
>>67102623
>Pro EU suffer from Stockholm syndrome
This.
>Uk-india (rest of commonwealth)
>Could setup tariff free trade deals before the week is done.
Yup UK already has good relationship with the commonwealth, it has access to far and wide countries.
When EU sits at the table UK has to set aside her priorities and sit in the room as just another state of the EU, and EU will look out for all other countries. UK is better of making it's own deals, they joined an economic union and i'm sure you guys can make other deals too. Sure it might be a bit difficult but negotiating as a sovereign country gives you more leverage over your own policies.
Why don't libtards in UK get that?
>>67102972
>because those nations see us as a foothold into the wider EU
Top kek we don't. If we want to get a foothold in EU we'd deal with Germany or France, not you.
We deal with UK because it's UK, not to get into EU.
