Could someone explain to me anarcho-leftism? How are people supposed to share the fruits of their labor without an authoritarian regulatory entity like the goverment? What happens when someone hoards over their designated share, and most importantly who sets the designated share?
>>67011861
No one sets a designated share. You receive according to your needs and give according to your capabilities. The specifics are worked out in a local assembly.
>>67012741
The problem still remains. Who estimates my needs and capabilities? Myself? What if I decide I have greater needs than all of my neighboors? Will I be lynched since there's no police?
>>67012939
The thing is, you can't really lie about your needs. Can you claim to need a green Lamborghini when your neighborhood doesn't have enough food? In an anarchist society you wouldn't really think like you think right now. Since the way we think has to do with the way we are brought up and what we learn in school, family, state, church, etc. That's as simple as I can give it to you.
>>67012741
>and give according to your capabilities
I set my capabilities to 0. Now give me what I need.
>>67011861
Syndicalist fuck sticks
>>67013761
>I set
It doesn't work that way, but if you wish to be a piece of shit "he who doesn't work doesn't eat" is another saying of socialism that should cover you in that case.
>>67014007
>he who doesn't work doesn't eat
So, you support Trump?
>>67013656
Seems reasonable, but I don't think there's any proof that upbringing determines greed. Most animals try to hoard as much resources (food, females, territory) as they can while they can, screwing the weak in the process. I don't think babies born in the Soviet Union grew to be less greedy than babies born in, say, South Korea.
>>67014007
You should really say that to our socialist politicians. They insist we must pay for the 5 million bums there is in the country because, well, we all are humans.
If you support socialism, this is what you get. Be unhappy with it if you want but grow up.
>>67014161
>I don't think babies born in the Soviet Union grew to be less greedy than babies born in, say, South Korea.
Babies no, but grown men and women, yes they were less greedy. You have to research that. When the Soviet Union fell, they couldn't really adjust to the new way of life and it seemed rather barbaric to them. That's all documented to some degree.
>
Seems reasonable, but I don't think there's any proof that upbringing determines greed.
>Most animals try to hoard as much resources (food, females, territory) as they can while they can, screwing the weak in the process.
Animals can't plan forward in time, so it's natural for them, but not for the industrious human being.
>>67014140
>>67014325
I'm not really a socialist, a leftist, a communist, or an anarchist. I just read some of that historical and ideological stuff out of interest. So don't get angry at me for your politics lol
>>67014763
Books say things. Reality usually say otherwise.
>>67015608
Okay, if you want to talk about reality, you should first describe the problem. You said:
>They insist we must pay for the 5 million bums there is in the country because, well, we all are humans.
Why do you have 5 million bums in the first place? Have you wondered about that or do you assume that they're all just lazy and don't wanna work?
>>67015756
>Why do you have 5 million bums in the first place?
A long history of socialism and failed mass immigration.
I know some of them, there are 2 in my family. They say you should enjoy life and if a job prevent you from doing so you must quit it. What is the point anyway, there is gibs.
I saw teenagers saying that there is no point in making studies, as even if they fail, they will live on gibs.
>>67016195
Correct. So those policies should be reversed, but it's hard to do within the current political system because they'll just vote "no".
>>67016389
>So those policies should be reversed
You, sir, are what we call a neo liberal.
>>67016569
We pretty much hate those guys here, but it's not like there's any other suggestions around. Le ebin nationalism is based on a time before global commerce was a reality and also was proved not to be viable without constant warfare. The left has also failed to organize, so capitalist Jew policies it is.
>>67016792
>Le ebin nationalism is based on a time before global commerce
You know global commerce started in the middle age, right?
You know the colonial time saw the rise of the global commerce, right?
You know ultranationalist countries like Switzerland and Japan have a good economy, right?
Basically OP they have no way to enforce their communism without going full blown red terror and utterly dropping the facade of being anarchists.
No matter what they say, the only realistic way to enforce the "give me all of your shit, work until you die or else"
>>67017126
>You know global commerce started in the middle age, right?
>You know the colonial time saw the rise of the global commerce, right?
I half-expected that. I should have been more precise. Yes, global commerce started at that time, but global finance is relatively recent.
>You know ultranationalist countries like Switzerland and Japan have a good economy, right?
They wouldn't be that alright, if they weren't the exception to the system. They reap what others must give for the system to work. Without the system, they would be just two more competing countries. Anyway, this isn't the direction the world is going (wrong side of history meme aside). There's been huge acceleration since WW2 going the opposite way and there's billions spent in de-nationalization. I don't see your plan working.
>>67014467
>people in socialism and the Soviet Union weren't greedy
>they didn't try to hoard as much shit as they can do
What. The. FUCK?!
Confirmed you don't know SHIT about what socialism was like in Eastern Europe.
>>67017646
I do know. What you are referring to is the fact that people were hoarding whatever they would find exactly because of the shortages of the soviet system. It wasn't greed in the same sense as in the West though. Just need.
>>67017852
No, you are wrong. People everywhere tried to get as much as they can.
They were AFRAID to be viewed as shrewd, or business-minded, so they didn't make private deals, but from the system they tried to get EVERYTHING they could.
You are lying. When their survival was secured, people went after luxury items, TV, radio, banana, cars the most vehemently and the more daring ones tried to get there soon, tried to find out how to get them and even sold them on the black market later. Which is thrived and had to be cracked down upon by force.
People in the Soviet Union weren't different in anything but fear. Many of them were afraid to be capitalistic because it was forbidden. They didn't, by any means think being capitalistic or greedy wasn't necessary.
>>67017646
Anon, I have family who suffered in the USSR.
It's always the people who never suffered communism who want it.
As someone who has family who faced both Italian/German fascism/nazism and Russian communism, give me fascism anyday.
>>67017646
I'd agree that the Soviet system created a psychological condition of fear over your belongings and uncertainty over having more/better food, clothes, etc. Thus it created a 'thieving' attitude in some people that gave birth to the black market. However, that's a different thing from wanting the latest iPhone. It's the opposite of being spoiled, it's being needy, and it's just as bad.
>>67018355
If you think I am lying then talk to old people. Many don't understand concepts such as unemployment and other modern problems. It just wasn't in their minds. Whatever, I think you know that, but you are a generation that has grown up with right-wing ideals.
>>67011861
Get a job faggot
>>67017408
And global finance is a good thing because...?
Japan give the world much more than they take because they are trapped by the American investment scheme. Americans gave them the capital needed to build a modern country, but it is a pay forever rubbish.
>>67014467
>Animals can't plan forward in time, so it's natural for them
Eh? That's exactly what the animals ARE doing by hoarding. Squirrels stock nuts, bears stock fat, etc.
>>67017852
So, people were not greedy because they were busy not starving? Is that your vision of the future?
>>67019253
I meant they don't have financial planning and industries, duh. They can at best plan for a few days ahead. They don't even have the mental capacity for more, nor the tools.
>>67018419
uhh
What you say is either wrong or meaningless or both. People tried to grab at every opportunity to gain as much shit as they can do, even the latest radios, TVs, when they had the chance.
You use modern wealth to make it look like people aren't greedy, they are just needy, but they are inseparable. People try to be happy, to get stuff, to enjoy themselves and it is selfish. They try to fill up their little Maslow pyramids, so of course if they are starving they won't try to get stuff that don't even exist.
>>67017408
Also you speak out against economic nationalism and I fail to see why. Syndicalism is all about freedom of association and the right to self-determination. This is the polar opposite of the globalist, super-imperialist oppressive financial system.
Syndicalists are about people gaining negotiating power by organizing themselves. One level of organization is the nation state. An anarchist would stand against the nation state trying to destroy the lower levels of organization, small councils of each workplace or try to curtail liberties, but a true syndicalist sure as hell wouldn't stand by the globalist cabal to destroy independent, free nations and rob people of their rights to freely associate themselves and govern themselves they want to.
>>67011861
The argument is:
Capitalism, communism, w/e, is still just man ruling over man, and it's prone to the same weaknesses in human nature no matter how much you gift-wrap it. So why not just cut the bullshit that is the authoritative institutions of law, business, democracy, e.t.c.?
>>67019319
People are starving right now, just not in Europe possibly, but is is happening. I mean it's not just a thing of the past, or a situation confined to communist systems. It does and it can happen anytime.
>>67018623
Unemployment didn't exist, because the system would rather employ people to do jack shit or meaningless, not productive jobs, and it kept up failing companies just to keep face in the desperate struggle to make an absolute, but horribly insincere and unrealistic ideology work.
All of this had nothing to do with syndicalism or socialism. Neither of these things will prevent you from unemployment if your syndication and company will go under due to bad management or changes in the economy.
>>67019554
>Capitalism, communism, w/e, is still just man ruling over man
That's not how capitalism works.
Capitalism is not a political system.
>>67019470
I explicitly said I'm not an anarchist or a syndicalist though. I don't see the 'system' as a bad thing necessarily. The world needs some direction and co-ordination. You profit from it, you must give back. And yes, that goes to the whole EU-Orban thing. It's in or out. Greece learned the hard way.
>>67019554
pipedream.
>>67019346
>Build a dam
>Travel to Africa for the winter
>make food and fat stock for the winter and dig complex tunnels with a lot of entrances in case of a predator
>>67019845
Capitalism defines the political system, otherwise the political system is just empty words. The economic system it employs, it the engine that drives it, and at times, it becomes the driver too.
>>67019805
>>67018623
Unemployment didn't exist in a medieval society either. And socialism memed hard on how greedy feudal lords were.
>>67019661
And if possible, I would like to not see my country ruled by policies that make starving real at home.
>>67020027
But the reason you solved starving, is exactly the free market. Why stop now and regress to nationalism? EU federation is a good thing.
>>67019997
>Capitalism defines the political system, otherwise the political system is just empty words. The economic system it employs, it the engine that drives it, and at times, it becomes the driver too
That's entirely different than "Capitalism is man ruling over man", especially when it's compared to communism in the same regard, especially since Communism is itself both a political ideology and an economic system, the former primarily driving the latter.
>>67020129
>free market
>EU federation
Pick one, if Merkel allows that is.
>>67019997
Why is a Greek trying to tell non-shit countries how to run an economy?
>>67011861
>>67020317
Cool, correct, I'm just saying it's not exactly seperate anyway. And a small addition:
According to Orthodox Marxism, the revolution in Russia was premature. That could explain most of the shortcomings. Whatever alchemy and brutality they tried, it couldn't work.
>>67020129
There was not much startving under nationalism.
I will argue that I want a strong European nation, a federal EU with a real unity and nationalistic policies. How is that a regression?
>>67019864
>some direction
Let me guess, it's the Soros-direction of making niggers breed like crazy and utilize the starving masses to invade Europe. Works like a charm.
But it also fueled by human greed and lust for power. You are and other good goyim are just shut out of the good parts and egged on for being greedy if you try to get in.
People want to build mega-structures of power and oppression to rule over others. It was the case with the USSR, it is the case now with the EU. It's not more efficient, it's way-way less efficient, but it's massive and can silence competition.
And this is its prime directive. To not leave anyone alone. Because people left alone are "exceptions" to the system. Meaning they aren't mindless slaves and can utilize their positions.
>>67020434
You need to grow up to the point that a person's nationality doesn't define what they can/can't talk about. That's how you got your iPhones and shit, caveman. You're the example of why nationalism and racism or prejudice would slow down the economy.
>>67020129
>the EU solved starving
Now this is just getting ridiculous.
>>67020675
You have no experience living in a working economy with a sensible government. That's why you have developed such idiotic ideas.
>>67020611
The thing is the niggers already exists, so outside of nationalism, there's really no reason why not to bring them in Europe instead of spending money and waiting for a new generation of Europeans to fill the gap of low-birth rates.
>>67020603
France is holding back the EU right now. I know it's ironic that I say it, but it's true regardless. In fact Greece has accelerated things quite a lot, and I imagine the globalists are grateful for that.
>>67020675
>nationalism and racism or prejudice would slow down the economy.
How? It will hurt people and lead to some serious shit, okay, but hurting the economy?
>>67020843
You have no idea where I may or may have not lived and worked and "my" ideas are rather shared by those who make your "working economy and sensible government", friendo.
>>67020742
I said the free market, the one you are trying to slow down by enforcing protectionism.
>>67020675
I'm pretty convinced at this point that you're subtly baiting with the wrong side of history maymay.
Also your iPhone meme was designed and produced by a singular private company, with its dedicated, regulated group of people, perfected through competition. It's a natural process for people to form communities and compete.
Nationalism isn't isolationism, free nations can trade very well among each other. In fact it was the case in the golden age of global commerce, something that we're gradually leaving behind in the years of constant one crises after the other.
>>67021051
I will not allow a Greek to tell me that. You are ruining everything and to add insult to injury, you are weaponising migrants to pressure Merkel into forgiving the colossal debt you accumulated by your lavish lifestyle.
>why not to bring them in Europe instead of spending money and waiting for a new generation of Europeans to fill the gap of low-birth rates.
Because we want our countries to be filled with hardworking honest people who support the country they are in. Now, you could ask why we don't let millions of Viets in, but browns and blacks are not made to live in a developed country. They fuck it.
>>67021114
>It will hurt people and lead to some serious shit
That slows down the economy. These hurt people will exit the consumer/worker crowd, there will be conflict, destroyed property, government money to fix it.
>>67021051
Low birth rates do not actually matter anymore. Advanced automation and artificial intelligence will increase the productivity of the smaller population allowing it to produce more wealth per capita.
A large population is just a liability going into the future. We actually need to reduce the population.
Is it possible to bulk under anarcholeftism?
>>67021338
>Also your iPhone me
My iPhone meme meant that if the CEO of Apple was racist, they wouldn't accept Indian Engineers or Chinese accountants because they "smell" and "look funny".
>>67021183
If you are a first world country, protectionism is the only way to keep your commercial balance not too disadvantageous. Again, you would know that if you lived in a real country. Keep thinking that the economists back you.
>>67021512
>Low birth rates do not actually matter anymore.
t. anonymous poster on 4chan
>. Advanced automation and artificial intelligence will increase the productivity of the smaller population allowing it to produce more wealth per capita.
Nice sci-fi animu.
>A large population is just a liability going into the future. We actually need to reduce the population.
Mkay, don't reproduce.
>>67021413
>I will not allow a Greek to tell me that. You are ruining everything and to add insult to injury, you are weaponising migrants to pressure Merkel into forgiving the colossal debt you accumulated by your lavish lifestyle.
That is a situation that is important for 5 years and costs a few dozen billions. The other subject is important for the next 100 years and is worth trillions.
>If you are a first world country, protectionism is the only way to keep your commercial balance not too disadvantageous.
Why are you thinking in term of "country" when all the top economists and firms are internationally minded? Are you too 20th century?
>>67021183
Starvation was long gone before the free trade deals. You're, once again, openly lying about facts. Starving in peacetime wasn't a thing in Europe from the end of XIX.
>>67021051
Aside from backwards primate-like emotions, why don't you raise the child of another man?
And besides the cuckoldry and the destruction of a culture and people, most of us actually like Europe can't sponge up a small fraction of the human surplus Africa is producing, so it definitely won't solve the problem.
>>67021457
>These hurt people will exit the consumer/worker crowd
As they consume more than they produce, it will be a good thing for the country.
>there will be conflict
There will be conflict anyway.
>destroyed property
Yup, but at least since our tax money don't go to theses people, we will fix the broken thing in no time and be great again just after.
Now, uncontrolled immigration AND gibs working together is leading to our ruin. This is clearly worse.
All anarchism is left wing other than brief periods of anarchy with high technology.
In a legitimate anarchist society (which humans originate from), there is ONLY anarcho-communism. The other ideologies don't exist because they don't believe in emotion or cooperation.
Even in the capitalist west, families are communist. Our tribal ancestors were anarcho-communists as well. They didn't let people starve or fall behind, they worked together and shared their belongings.
The thing with anarchism is it doesn't function with more than maybe 100 people. Most viable with less than 10.
>>67018407
those who suffered fascism say otherwise
just hurry up those AI's google is making and let it make the descisions
humanity should renounce governance altogether and live as pets for AIs
>>67019845
Capitalism is private control over the means of production and the natural resources. Not by natural right or whatever you cato institute autists think up, but by the enforcement of it by government. I mean it is a product of politics, how is it not a political system? And it most certainly is man ruling man.
>>67019911
Idd dickhead.
>>67021457
>These hurt people will exit the consumer/worker crowd
As they consume more than they produce, it will be a good thing for the country.
>there will be conflict
There will be conflict anyway.
>destroyed property
Yup, but at least since our tax money don't go to theses people, we will fix the broken thing in no time and be great again just after.
Now, uncontrolled immigration AND gibs working together is leading to our ruin. This is clearly worse.
>>67021512
Low birth rate are a good thing for everyone except investment bankers, real estate morguls and industry tycoons.
>>67021735
But literally everything he said is true
This is why Greece is failing desu.
>>67021961
>in peacetime
When was the longest time of peacetime achieved in the whole European Continent? Is it related to any "evil" superstructures like the United Nations and the European Union?
>Aside from backwards primate-like emotions, why don't you raise the child of another man?
I'll have to possibly.
>As they consume more than they produce, it will be a good thing for the country.
False, immigration is a net positive.
>There will be conflict anyway.
There hasn't been for 70 years.
>>67021735
It isn't scifi. It is already happening. I am already in the process of reshoring production from Shenzhen to the U.S because our new way of doing things has made the difference in labor costs mostly irrelevant to our decision making.
>>67021880
So, both are bad, right? And you keep lecturing me on how good you are for the UE and how bad we are, right?
>when all the top economists and firms are internationally minded
All of them? really? Last time I checked they could not even agree on the definition of value.
>>67011861
anarchism is broadly direct democratic control of all functions of production, all land is held in common and all people in use of that land have a right to participate in the decisions pertaining to its use. How this is done is down to various schools of thought
Also you have literally asked 'how would people share stuff without the government'..... well, they would just share it without having to pay taxes first. Share like brothers and sisters share.
>>67022273
Good, you made a rational decision, not a patriotic one. You are enforcing what I said.
>>67021558
But you're just substituting nativism with elitism and neither of them are inclusive.
>>67021735
If you think automatization is sci-fi, you're seriously delusional.
Automatization is coming and it'll render most of humanity economically useless and obsolete. It's already happening in the first world.
It is future.
>>67022047
I'm a gypsy who's family moved from Italy, Germany and Russia.
I'd rather live in nazi Germany.
>>67022254
We live in peace because the nuclear bomb have been invented and now we are fighting proxy war, cyberwars and fueling war by supporting unofficially a camp. It have nothing to do with the economy.
>>67022350
I don't mean all the professors and the theorists, those don't matter. I mean people like the IMF or Institute for Growth and all the somewhat important organizations.
You are bad for the EU right now because you are not complying with the surplus rules and don't purse further federalization because it means you'll actually have to lose some shit to do it. You also have nukes and a strong army so you don't see a reason to make anti-national decisions, but you have to.
>>67022564
Everything to do with the economy, lol.
Do you even know how the EU started?
As an economic union between France, Germany and the BeNeLux, so that you don't have to fight over stupid shit again. You made a monopoly and expanded it to the east in search of customers.
>>67022564
Also,
>What is the society of Nations?
>What were free trade unions?
>>67022526
Even as a gypsie?
>>67022500
Germany has a shortage of workers, so I don't really see what you're saying. Machines need people to operate/program them anyway. Stop reading robo-manga plz.
>>67022843
>>What is the society of Nations?
>>What were free trade unions?
Less developed versions of what we have now?
>>67022630
>the IMF
Literally the carricature of a Jewish plot made by /pol/, just with some of them not being jews.
>or Institute for Growth and all the somewhat important organizations.
Exact same thing, just smaller.
Don't you remember what happened when you let Goldman & Sach told you how to run your country? Should you not be busy working right now to pay back the debt it gave you?
>>67022748
The EU is not why we have peace. The fact that USA and Russia ruled the world with mutual destruction in case of war did.
>>67022254
Yes, in peacetime, like 1870-1914 and 1920-1939. People weren't starving in Western and Central Europe. Not even in the great depression.
>muh peace
You mean the worst era for Europe since the dark ages? Europe never had so many crippling problems and wasn't falling so behind as now. This peace time is detrimental, because it isn't fueled by true unity, but decay.
It's easy to maintain peace, when people have nothing to struggle for and they can't be asked to sacrifice even for their children.
This civilization is doomed to either technologically overcome the social shortcomings or fall to the African model. African genetics and culture is expanding, Europe is shrinking. And there are constant wars and struggles in Africa, so you can see that the UN didn't achieve jack shit. Europe got to a point in development where the people don't need to war.
It's not necessarily a good or a bad thing. But any rational person can see that it would have been preferable to stop devastating wars without castrating the continent.
>>67023039
Ho, look, we had them back in early 20th century and it didn't gave us peace. But the ones we have right now is exactly why we have peace, because it make sense.
>>67022869
Then they should not have let in people who come only for the gibs, who hate Germany and the Germans and who have a disproportionate tendency to live off welfare compared to other immigrants.
>>67023099
>>67023203
You seem to be confusing some 2 different things, which are national interest and international realism. You need to figure this out, that a nation can't do whatever it wants, whenever it wants. Even France, and much less Hungary, can't escape from a certain plan that exists for the European economy and to which they are bound to by contract. So start cutting that deficit and come back later for more instruction.
>>67023290
>>67023306
>>67023451
Anyway, this isn't really a discussion with me and my opinions, as I see it at least. You should take your objections and throw them at the news in the newspaper and see if they disappear.
>>67022869
But less and less. And especially less unskilled workers. You aren't denying the trend, you're memeing like a child. Like someone from 1840 pointing at the steam engine and saying mechanized transportation can't make horses obsolete, since you can't have rails going into every street and you can't apply heavy steam engines to carriages.
>>67023653
If you have such knowledge of a new "steam engine" coming our way, better invest your shekels fast. At the moment, I see all investors withdrawing their money from the markets, weird.
>>67023451
There is a certain equation as to how much welfare you can give to have a bigger reward, and I'm certain the German economists have done it. Otherwise, no pensions for 70 year old Hans because he is well behind the replacement ratio for his homegrown working bees.
>>67023494
>So start cutting that deficit and come back later for more instruction.
Get a proxy when you want to say that.
>>67023742
what weird is that you bring this up, when this has nothing to do with automatization.
First you claim that the economy isn't based on completely automated processes and we still need huge human workforces, then show a global financial trend.
There were economic crises in the XIX. century too and they weren't related to the development of steam engines or factories, but mostly the financial systems and agriculture.
You're memeing once again.
>>67023290
>Europe never had so many crippling problems and wasn't falling so behind as now.
I sincerely doubt it. Your country for example, is better than ever. What age would you rather live in?
>>67023880
As a country with a great experience in immigration, I can tell you, with Africans and Arabs, you don't get a reward at all. With Easter European and Asians, you do.
>>67023904
It is more amusing this way.
>>67011861
>CNT
>FAI
Burn in fire
>>67023494
So, nationalism does not mean hermetism. Japan is nationalist. They import and export a lot and have trade union with half Asia and North America.
>>67024088
>bigger=better
Nope. We abandoned Algeria for that.
>>67024069
Damn, okay. I don't claim shit. This is the general consensus of European economists. It's growing old and can't sustain itself economically without immigration. Prove me wrong and I will shut up.
>>67024121
It's funny because you took them in before it was cool. And yes, I agree with you, that they are worse workers than others, but I don't see any Asians around!
>>67024297
The Japanese economy is critiqued everyday for its closed-ness, and it's actually on a downwards spiral. So Idk what you're saying. They also work a whole lot more than Europeans.
>>67011861
Most "anarchists" on the Left aren't real anarchists.
They don't like the government but they're also incredibly anti-privatisation.
It always makes me smile when anarchists bitch and moan about private healthcare.
>>67023880
>the German economists have done it
They think everyone is the same. They use models of human nature with more aggregation than pertinent factor. They see a Somalian as another German, just in black. Ask the swedes about the Somalians.
>>67024325
Our industrial complex wanted them in to break the working class, the syndicalist culture and to lower wages. I am sure the Germans didn't used us as a model. They would not. They have the greater good of Germany in mind after all.
>>67024426
It's in a spiral because they can't export enough to pay for their American overlord.
>>67011861
I think it works through a voluntary basis- you could always choose to leave the commune, but then you're out in the pure anarcho-capitalist world. So you have a choice to either share or go out on your own.
At least you have realistic choices under anarchy.
>>67024501
Even if the economists can't differantiate between Somalians and Germans because of political correctness publicly, I'm sure that behind closed doors they use all the /pol/ statistics to make their plans. Not that they always work. Anyway, some raging apes aren't too expensive for the government, in the name of the greater good. It might ruin your own little private life if you live close to them, but you're just a person.
>>67024753
>It's in a spiral because they can't export enough to pay for their American overlord.
So what? I could say the same thing for a dozen countries that are in special circumstances of having an 'overlord', mine being one of them. Does it make it less real?
>>67011861
Anarcho Leftism is a made-up ideology that has no analogue in the real world. It doesn't exist. All Leftism is inherently authoritarian.
This is why you can say categorically that all Marxism is a lie. The Communist ideology holds that eventually their retarded directives will result in a classless stateless society, but none have ever managed to create, or even describe such a society.
>>67025463
>a made-up ideology
U r strong wordman, very argument
>>67025463
Try not to refute yourself with your own words.
You say:
>This is why you can say categorically that all Marxism is a lie.
And you explain why:
>The Communist ideology holds that eventually their retarded directives will result in a classless stateless society, BUT NONE HAVE EVER MANAGED TO CREATE, OR EVEN DESCRIBE SUCH A SOCIETY.
So, genius, how can you CATEGORICALLY say that all Marxism is a lie, if they HAVEN'T actually even started bulding the Marxist Utopia? You'd have to be around for thousands of years more to say that CATEGORICALLY.
Also,
>Anarcho Leftism is a made-up ideology that has no analogue in the real world. It doesn't exist. All Leftism is inherently authoritarian.
No, you just haven't thought this through. A lot of the human co-operation that takes place today and historically has taken place since primitive times, is an analogue of Anarcho leftism in the real world. Mutual benefit is one of the reasons why it could and it has worked.
Marxism traditionally said that Communism would come AFTER Capitalism. The Russian Revolution was essentially ANTI-Marxist, and it was Lenin's wet dream and personal revolution so he twisted t he theory to make it fit his goals.
So we're still far away from any kind of scientific socialism, at least until the whole world has been incorporated into some highly-advanced capitalist organization.
>>67026122
They have certainly started building the Marxist utopia, it was called the Soviet Union. What they discovered was that Communism practiced doesn't result in Communism as described.
>A lot of the human co-operation that takes place today and historically has taken place since primitive times, is an analogue of Anarcho leftism in the real world.
There has never been a classless stateless society. It may be analogous to Anarcho Leftism in that it bears passing similarities to it, but in no instance has it ever actually been AnSoc, because AnSoc doesn't exist.
>>67013930
>mfw just wreck Willies shit as the Commune
Prolétaires de tous les pays, unissez-vous!
>>67026840
>They have certainly started building the Marxist utopia, it was called the Soviet Union
Nope. Read here:
>>67026610
The Russian country was a semi-feudal state at the time of the revolution, so it actually had to go through capitalism first, international capitalism then (what we have now) and then socialism. 2016 would be the more appropriate Marxist date for revolution, rather than 1916.
>There has never been a classless stateless society. It may be analogous to Anarcho Leftism in that it bears passing similarities to it, but in no instance has it ever actually been AnSoc, because AnSoc doesn't exist.
Okay, you're right there. I was speaking of the psychological elements hidden in the human DNA that allow for various behaviors. Pure ideologies are fiction, yes.
>>67012741
>a local assembly.
in the real world we call these "municipal governments"
>>67027458
It's a rather enhanced municipal government, friend. So hardly the same thing other than the locality of it.
