Greetings /pol/, I have to write an essay on a local issue. One of the issues deals with the gentrification of a well known high crime/ hispanic neighborhood. So I was wondering what your thoughts on gentrification are. Any personal accounts, pros and cons or anything to add would be really helpful.
p.s the neighborhood is Barrio Logan.
>>66968043
I support it for the most part. The hipster faggots are annoying but tenerally speaking gentrification is a positive. Its bringing new money into a non-productive area and improving it.
When a high crime area becomes gentrified, does that usually mean that crime goes down as well ? I would think with all the new money, a larger police presence would be needed and felt.
I have mixed feelings, because I think shunting working-class out of neighborhoods for trendy hipsters isn't exactly improving neighborhoods, but I don't really know what other outcome you have once you start pouring money into a place.
Minority communities are often hit badly, and God forbid you live close to a college where renters can price out every normal person out of the market.
>>66968043
Ah yes, but which one is more culturally vibrant and rich?
>>66970128
Yes housing prices increase which pushes out old residents
>>66970128
well usually the rent increases so the scum get thrown out
Honestly the Mexicans are getting dealt a favor. I'd rather have Hipsters deal with the noxious fumes from living so close to a freeway than the poor
You talking about Logan Square? It's not completely gentrified yet. You should write your paper on Pilsen. They actually have demonstrations and protests against white people telling them to leave, and they are the ones who oppose gentrification the most.
>>66968043
not the same building
I think Barrio Logan is interesting, it has around 85% hispanic population and is very proud of its history. The thing is, if you are very proud of your city, why would you let it get so bad. The crime rates are pretty high and the median family income is in the mid 30,000s.
>>66971516
can you expand on Pislen ?
>>66971505
San Diego not Chicago dude
>>66968043
It's happening hardcore in San Fagcisco with nu-male programmers pushing out hippie burnouts who still think they're living in the summer of love.
Fuck that entire place.
>>66970939
Chicagofag here - it doesn't usually happen in nice working-class and lower-middle class areas because the increase in value isn't as much. Keep your neighborhood nice and it won't get gentrified. There are even nicer black neighborhoods like Beverly, Bronzeville, and South Shore that don't get gentrified.
In general, though, I don't care. The reason that some neighborhoods are so much more expensive than others are simply to make sure that your neighbors aren't the type to misbehave. Where I live, there is literally the same type of housing and neighborhood structure in the deep ghetto as there is in much of the gentrified areas - the difference is how people behave. If you could count on 95% people having a certain standard of behavior, housing prices would be much flatter. You need to be willing to do shit like call the cops on the gangs to make your neighborhood nice - not everyone does that. You need to be willing to send teenage kids to jail - even your own - not everyone does that.
>>66971814
Sorry anon. What a coincidence that both places are called Logan and have the same problem, though!
>>66972004
This
Fuck Valencia, fuck Haight, fuck Montgomery.
These hipster Jews from Brooklyn that come in working for indie game developers and making shitty steam games or Facebook apps are cancer. They've turned the place into an SJW playground.
If you've ever played Grand Theft Auto 5 and did the mission where you infiltrate the Life Invader office (their equivalent of Facebook) that's what the place has turned into. Nothing but cucks, Jews, and Zoe Quinn clones.
>>66971618
I'm not one-hundo on Pilsen but I suspect it's not different from Humboldt Park in which the neighborhood has a long history of Puerto Rican culture and now the neighborhood is being threatened by different ethnic groups like Mexicans and hipster whites, so they are putting up a big fight against changing their neighborhood.
It's like how Chinatown has historically been populated by Cantonese immigrants, but in the last few decades there has been a huge surge of Mandarins moving into turf that had been Canton for a century.
>>66968043
The nicer something looks, the more you care about it and the better you treat it, even if it's not something you own. People are more likely to litter on a street filled with trash, vandalize a poorly maintained building, or commit crime if they're black. Just improving a neighborhood in superficial ways helps to improve how people there act.
>>66972193
Well you dont have much of an issue to worry about with those types anon. Unlike the hippies that believe in free love and dont understand contraception the SJW mindset combined with LGBT lifestyles means that they wont breed gen 2 cretins.
>free market
>why would any run-down neighborhood not welcome getting a cleanup?
>can't tell people they can't buy houses and fix them up
Yes, crime goes down when a neighborhood gets 'gentrified'. Druggies move on to somewhere else. Foot traffic and consumer traffic increases as small stores pop up. Property values go up, people take care of their properties. Suddenly everything is nice and rosy again.
Take shit hole and make it nice. Who can't like that??
>>66972530
Is there a name for this?
Broken windows theory- The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments to prevent small crimes such as vandalism, public drinking, and toll-jumping helps to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness, thereby preventing more serious crimes from happening.
ripped from wiki
this best video best explains gentrification.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foU9W7AkKSY
>>66970128
Crime just moves to the next poorest neighborhood.
>>66973388
broken-window theory
From what I know, that neighborhood is next to a lot of industrial buildings and a shipyards. The asthma rate for children is the highest in the county.
>>66970939
>working class neighborhoods
It happens to hell holes where most people are either on welfare or employed in the very bottom end of the service industry, like working at McDonald's or 7/11.
I used to think gentrification was bad, until almost every example I saw was inner city hell holes riddled with crime being cleaned up, and then the outgoing residents complaining because muh historical neighborhood as a cover for not being allowed to live in squalor anymore.
>>66968043
I live in a neighborhood undergoing a slow but steady gentrification. As a positive I'm getting a very nice, well maintained apartment at rock bottom prices, and there are some really great stores and restaurants opening in the area. Public transportation has also improved significantly over the years.
As a minus the neighborhoods are still on the sketchy side, and the influx of yuppies and hipster faggots is really annoying.
>>66970939
tenants aren't entitled to shit, you live off a temporary contract so you obey the laws of the free market moving along with it
poor people that actually own property in gentrified neighborhoods always reap the benefits
Ugh, gentrification talk on /pol/ is always such a robust mix of racism and classism.
Gentrification doesn't involve bettering the lives of people who live there. It involves making it so that rich(er) people want to live there, driving up the prices of property and essentially driving the current residents from their homes.
It's the difference between saying "let's make the lives of the people living in this area better" and saying "this location is valuable, but the people are devaluing it. Let's try to get different people in". Gentrification is often the later, at the expense of the people who live there. It doesn't help anybody but those who pocket the profit
For homework, think about what happens when you try to gentrify lots of places? All of those residents have to move somewhere cheap. As they do, the options on where to move become smaller and smaller, which means you're concentrating groups of people who were forced out of their homes into fewer areas. What do you think happens to the life of the people who are forced to move to areas of concentrated poverty?
>>66974013
white power
>>66976433
Is there some kind of rent control ? Or can the apartment owners start jacking up the price to match the surrounding areas ?
>>66976539
Gentrification usually comes along as a result of low property values.
The residents fucked themselves out of their own homes. And if you are talking about tenants and renters then wtf landlords are in the business of money.
If they can get more they will.
You are a neo-commie.
>>66976539
Right, we should pass laws preventing people with money from moving into a bad neighborhood, lest they increase the property value.
Maybe if the economically disadvantaged in inner cities didn't completely trash their own neighborhoods, they could have nice things too.
>>66976539
That's the problem I mentioned earlier. Gentrification doesn't really help lower-income people. The question is, is there a way to get money back into neighborhoods without fucking over normal people at the expense of trust-fund hipsters? I understand and can accept the free market aspect of rent and tenants, but still.
>>66972530
this is true; in our neighborhood we always try to report graffiti and other vandalism crimes, because police presence is dictated by how often the department receives calls.
>>66976734
What makes you think the residents have any say in what happens in their neighborhood? Do you really think they would want property costs to go up and be driven out of their homes? Is that what they would want?
The only people who benefit are the property owners and developers who pocket the profit, not the residents.
>>66976539
>For homework, think about what happens when you try to gentrify lots of places?
for your homework think about what mostly affects property value. I'll give you the answer: crime.
>>66968043
I lived near Hyde park in Chicago in a relatively shit black neighborhood when Obama was a senator. With all the interest in the area with the presidency, police interest has gone up, university students are moving closer to University of Chicago off campus, and the areas immediately around my house are improving.
For me, this is fucking great because my family owns the house I lived in and poor black families can no longer afford to rent their houses. So, generally the areas are getting more expensive and nicer.
SF fag here. Used to be in the Mission. Gentrification has massive pros and cons. For the pros, the crime really goes down because usually its blacks and mexicans committing crimes, and they can't afford it anymore. In addition, there's far more things to do in a community because everyone is pouring money into the community,
The downside is the massive rent spike. Everything goes up. And you wind up paying nearly half or more of your paycheck for rent. Traffic is also a massive problem, especially in a place like SF.
>>66977094
that's what happens when you live in a city. you don't have control over who lives there, people come and go.
>>66976582
No rent control. My rent has gone up a few times over the years but I'm still getting a better deal on my place compared to the going rate in "good" neighborhoods. Bear in mind my area is not "completely" gentrified. The neighborhood is getting better, but it is this odd mix of nice buildings and decent people and "problem" buildings with ghetto niggers that cause trouble until they're arrested every 6 months and their shitty landlord replaces them. I imagine when that shit is completely phased out my rent will rise to a point where I will consider shopping around for a better deal, but for now I really like my apartment and I get along well with my landlord, and the rent is dirt cheap.
>>66976539
Yeah, but poor people are fucking human trash, senpai kun.
Like /pol/ is always on about racism, but honestly, classism is where its at.
>>66976539
The residents ARE devaluing the area by causing quality of life issues. Nobody wants to live in an area full of faggots stealing stuff, and breaking shit.
>>66976876
Mixed income housing is the solution. A certain percentage of units are set aside for low-income renters. The developer gets tax credits/block grants/Community Reinvestment Act financing from banks and the city prevents poverty being concentrated.
At the same time, the low income renters have a chance at taking advantage of some of the new jobs in the area, go to school or otherwise improve their lives in an environment that isn't toxic ghetto. If they choose to engage in ghetto bullshit then their neighbors in the market-rate units get them evicted, v& or both.
>>66977680
But historically, hasn't mixing low-income and higher-income residents often cause the higher-income residents to move somewhere else? I thought this was the problem with the urban renewal/public housing projects in the 70s and 80s. Just curious.
>>66977843
It's a shit idea. I would pay more money to ensure I don't get robbed by my fucking neighbors.
>>66977680
>>66977843
both good points. I know there is some section 8 housing in this area. I imagine that the rents will stay under control for those lucky enough to make it into those apartments. The taxpayers pay the rest.
>>66968043
Gentrification is good. It reinvigorates communities, hikes up the local GDP, standard of living, etc.
The poorer residents either find a job or run a successful business to cater to these new individuals or leave.
It's not bad in any way. Leaving a neighborhood isn't the end of time.
>>66976539
Sorry, but if you as a community can't keep your community nice and crime-free, you have no right to complain when other's decide to do it for you at the cost of increased pricing.
>>66968043
It's a mixed bag. One of the fist attempts at gentrification was what Robert Moses in NY and urban renewal around the country sought to accomplish. Slum removal didn't actually gentrify cities, but it destroyed communities and illustrates the lost neighborhood argument really well. Jane Jacobs talks about this in The Life and Death of Great American Cities.
I speak mostly from living in the South, so my experience can't be entirely generalized, but much of the trend in gentrification is young whites pushing out older blacks. Sometimes, there are other races involved, but generally Latinos and Asian immigrants in the past few decades moved directly to the suburbs and bypassed the city.
Currently, most cities really like being gentrified because the new residents (often young, educated, and w/o children) don't require much in the way of municipal services and pay lots of tax money. After decades of population loss, deferred infrastructure maintenance, and rising pension costs this shift has been a windfall for city budgets. The downside, politically, is that urban political machines are getting worried about demographics. City elections tend to be more focussed on racial lines, so new urban demographics are starting to be felt.
Another angle on gentrification is to look at the effects of municipal code on gentrification and redevelopment. Andres Duany has interesting opinions on this matter. His argument is generally that regulations have made it impossible for profitable cheap redevelopment to take place, so virtually all new development targets the luxury market. A consequence is then that there is a cascading effect as newer residents who can't afford luxury units will then push out older residents in less expensive established neighborhoods as the newer residents move down the real estate food chain.
RICH PEOPLE HAVE BETTER EMBALMING TECHNIQUES. OR SO I'VE HEARD. I'M JUST A MUMMY
>>66977843
When its a large amount. When you have a small amount who have been background checked it works better.
I am not finding any good arguments against it.
>>66979640
Low income people are forced from rented properties. That's about it, but those areas are also shit because of these people.
>>66968043
How can anybody think that an area turning from left to right is a bad thing? It boggles my mind.
We need to do like Asia does and push poor people out of cities into rural areas so our cities can become great again. There's no reason that law abiding, hard working rich people shouldn't be allowed to freely congregate together with their law abiding, high efficiency peers to create godlike 10/10 master race communities.
Fuck poor people.
>>66972530 >>66973489
Yup. YOu don't have to take it as far as making the whole street into a hipsterspot.
You can just as good simply clean up the neigborhood and plant some nice things to have a posetive effect in the entire area, which lowers the amount of scum which loitering around there
>>66980812
Your flag makes me think you are trolling, but if you are serious, I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
