Serious question: how do Bernie and his supporters rationalize the fact that little to none of his proposed ideas (especially shit like free college and single-payer healthcare) have any chance of getting through either house of Congress?
I'm sure Bernie genuinely believes he can, but in all likelihood he'll be forced to either renege on his campaign promises or pull a Frank Underwood and abuse his executive power. I mean just look at the difference between the ACA when it was first proposed and when it was signed into law.
I rationalize it like this: Bernie, at least, will try. Hillary thinks the status quo is great the way it is and won't attempt to change anything.
>>66819245
lel billionaires
They literally believe that they're the starting point of negotiations since you have to start high.
In reality they'll get snuffed out in committees and they'll just bitch and whine about it.
>>66819396
>It's the thought that counts
wew lad
>>66819396
But if he weren't successful wouldn't the ultimate result be the same as if Hillary were elected? Don't get me wrong, I like Bernie a lot and I don't think he's trying to deceive anyone, but I don't know how he deals with the fact that the vast majority of his ideas will be dead on arrival.
It's a matter of putting a man who shares your ideas into the big chair.
I'm not going to cave to the anti-democratic power of the Republican Congress when
1) putting a "pragmatist" into power means putting someone closer to them in terms of ideology in power
2) A Sanders candidacy can generate huge turnout that puts more Democrats into Congress
>>66819245
I ask the same about Trump. Republicans are the one trying the hardest to stump him.
>>66819732
I don't think he's saying that. The idea is to put someone into power who has a record of fighting for the ideas you share. Americans really don't seem to understand how to vote.
Voting for someone who compromises more means giving up without a fight, frankly.
Pragmatic voting matters in certain cases (when you're in a purple state, your vote matters, when you're in a deep red or deep blue state, you can make symbolic votes), but most of the time it's perfectly safe (especially in a primary) to vote for who you genuinely support more.
They're cuckolds dude, they still support him despite his hatred for white people.
>>66820418
>2) A Sanders candidacy can generate huge turnout that puts more Democrats into Congress
You mean like after 2008 when they had to struggle with their own caucus because there are a lot of moderates and somewhat conservative Democrats?
>>66819245
people think presidential elections are electing a dictator
just look at /pol/ and their drooling over trump's ideas while in reality congress is going to fuck with him so hard
>>66820640
faggot
>>66819732
That's literally how they think though. Liberals are fucking morons. They still think Obama was a good president.
Most people don't even know what the three sectors of government are in the US, let alone what any single member of government actually does or how anything works.
Are you surprised? That's how it works. The government doesn't want smart citizens it wants dumb drones.
>>66820880
the three branches*
Couldn't think of the word.
>>66820640
>The idea is to put someone into power who has a record of fighting for the ideas you share
>In Congress for 25+ years
>66% of his sponsored legislation that passed has been renaming post offices
>Has the most partisan voting record of anyone in Congress
>Has demonstrated that he is an uncompromising ideologue
>At least he's fighting for stuff though!
I'll tell you how his presidency will go:
1. He will rant and rave about how he has a mandate
2. Congress will ignore him since they will also claim a mandate
3. They will either snuff out of completely revise the bills he likes
4. He will veto those bills because he's an uncompromising faggot
5. His foreign policy will display in full force how little people respect him, especially since he knows nothing of the subject
6. His term does lasting damage to his ideology since everyone will associate it with how much of a failure he was
7. He gets voted out in 2020
Though this is all dependent on him getting the nomination, which is extremely unlikely, and then winning the election, which won't happen.
>>66820741
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/22/kevin-mccarthy-g-o-p-house-leader-says-he-could-work-with-donald-trump/
>>66819245
The serious answer is that Sanders will say straight up that his plans will only go through if his supporters get active in house and senate votes. Turnout to those elections is shit. Every candidate knows they need the help of congress, most just don't say so during their campaigns.
>>66821485
It's also dependent on getting Representatives and Senators who are aligned with him which is unlikely since he's at the fringe of our political spectrum.
>>66821972
It would be easier in some states than in others but his popularity seems to indicate he's not so fringe anymore man.
>>66819245
cubans in florida are not stoked for bernie
>>66819245
Neither Trump nor Bernie really have much of a chance of getting their more extreme shit through congress, but that's hardly the point.
The point is that whatever platform a president gets elected on is perceived as the current "Mindset" of a country. Or at least, that's how I view it. If a president gets elected screeching that he's a socialist then a bunch of congressional politicians will go "Okay, apparently America likes socialism now." If Trump gets elected on his "Fuck illegals, build wall" platform, Congressmen will think "Well, apparently we vastly underestimated how much Americans hate immigrants." Part of staying in power is not going wholesale against the common will.
My only real qualm with Bernie is his amnesty bullshit: It smacks of SJWism on the surface but on a closer, more rational look, that shit benefits only corporations. For the rest of us, it just means higher taxes, more labor competition, and lower wages.
Amnesty + higher minimum wage just = higher unemployment. There is no fiscal policy in existence that can combine amnesty for illegals with any kind of solution for absurd income inequality.
Fuck dude, just taxing outsourcing and tossing illegals will do a better job of that. Anything that increases demand for American labor.
Ideally, it'll be Bernie vs Trump with Trump winning: the message will be clear then. Fuck corporations, and fuck SJWs and illegals too. Then the current gen lefties can go rethink their over-rapid globalization bullshit.
>>66820418
I know Bernie's supporters like to believe that his election would spark an unprecedented political revolution but historically speaking, at least in the US, it's incredibly unlikely at best. Even if (bear in mind this is an enormous 'if') Democrats win a majority in the house, Bernie would still need a veto-proof majority in the Senate to ensure his ideas pass, all of which assumes, of course, that his party are in lockstep with his ideas.
I realize Bernie supporters tend to scoff at things like "his plans aren't realistic" without offering a substantive rebuttal, but if it exists, I haven't heard it.
>>66822478
He's very popular in rural states, especially in the Northeast and interior West. In more urbanized blue states he's fighting tooth and nail against Clinton and he's extremely unpopular in the South.
>>66821330
>oh, no! not partisanship!
Obama decided to be bipartisan and look what THAT fucking did for the Democratic party.
>>66819245
Once the political revolution happens, we will vote out the current members of congress and replace them with people who actually have common sense. FEEL THE BERN.
>>66819245
Bernie people have no idea how much wealth there is in the world. They think that because the US is richer than every other country we can do anything other countries can do, and usually it's some meme-tier understanding of what other countries do that has no basis in reality.
>>66822816
>The answer to the other side not working with me is to not work with them!
So you actually want Sanders to get nothing done.
Do liberals really think they can vote in enough congressmen and senators to give them a majority to approve the shit Bernie wants? Aren't a lot of democrats against his ideas as well?
>>66822537
>he thinks his beliefs born of no experience are more rational than the people who lived under socialism
>>66822816
that's the point though, anon. it's one thing to be partisan as a Senator because after all, you're representing the interests of your constituents.
but as long as republicans control one or both houses of congress it's pretty safe to assume that President Bernie would be putting up with more or less the same bullshit from congress that Obama did, the same bullshit that forced him to compromise so much on stuff like the ACA and yearly budgets.
>>66819245
At least he's going to try. Shillary on the other hand is a big business puppet.
>>66819245
bernie supporters don't rationalize anything. they have no idea how to act on any of his ideas. they don't even remember to go vote.
>>66823645
So Sanders is better because he's gunning for a participation trophy? Alright then.
Everyone needs to go to www.massivefaggot.com
WILL YOU FAGGOTS STOP USING THAT PICTURE? IT TRIGGERS THE FUCK OUT OF ME
>>66823153
>acknowledging an unpleasant reality means you like the way things are!
If the other side's idea of "working with you" is turning your ideas into the big-business shilling you were against, and you decide you're cool with that, it is in fact better to not work with them. After realizing there's no hope for reason, you do a thing Obama didn't do: you identify the people holding the process up in Congress and you mobilize your base against them.
The Democrats don't know how to harness anger like Republicans do. It's a party weakness.
>>66820418
>huge turn out that puts more democrsts in office
Except the Democrats are way farther behind in voter turn out this year and Bernie has done nothing to boost that
>>66819245
he wants to start a revolution like ron paul, but bernies ideas are based in fantasy world whereas pauls were rooted in reality
>>66825331
Democrat turnout for Obama was a bunch of youngins going "Well if we elect a black man as president everything will change, right? We'll progress, things will be different, no more heavily racialized politics all the time, all better."
Yeah didn't go that way.
So this year it's "Fuck 'em. Build wall."
neither does trump's wall shit
> What is an executive order
Sure is uneducated niggers around here.
>>66825331
>spreading the myth that better primary turnout = better general election turnout
>>66824044
>www.massivefaggot.com
Holy shit, this is fucking awesome.
>>66819245
Why is Bernie such an ugly jew with an awful accent and such shit ideas?
How can this stupid faggot actually be running for president?
Anyone who votes for this jew dog should be shot
>>66825500
>rooted in reality
bernie and his supporters are delusional but to say ron paul's ideas were rooted in reality is incredibly generous at best
>>66825517
The democrats look retarded this year. Its between an evil woman who no body likes and who people know as a criminal vs an old communist jew whose only following is young retarded NEETs or liberal arts majors who want to like bring it all down dude.
I fully expect that any progress made towards sensible healthcare, tuition, and tax reform will be so diluted as to be effectively meaningless. Electing him after he's run on that platform, though, will cause other people's platforms to be adjusted in that direction.
Mass surveillance and campaign finance corruption are threats to us as a species. The largest economy and most powerful military in the history of the world are well on their way to being run by an Orwellian dystopia. Most people already believe that the telescreens are there for their own good ("I have nothing to hide!"), even as they joke about not daring to engage in intellectual exploration for fear of being put on secret shit-lists. Research indicates that citizens don't get their interests represented in government except when they happen to overlap with corporate interests, and Democratic efforts to vote to reduce corporate influence on elections is at risk of being overridden by sitting politicians (superdelegates). The degree to which the U.S. population has control of its government is quickly fading, these two issues are the largest factors, and it's nothing short of immoral to disregard them.
Besides that, I think he's actually got a decent chance of legalizing pot if he can sell it to Republicans as a states' rights issue.
>>66825741
Okay pal I was talking about a switching Congress not presidency. Great comprehension there Bernout.
>>66826071
Republicans aren't doing any better. It's between a Canadian uneligible for POTUS that has the charisma of a baked potato (no sour cream or toppings of any kind) and a reality tv show personality meme supported by inbreds and obese people.
Gotta admit this is the funniest presidential race ever, thank you America.
>>66826391
Yeah its shit on both sides, never claimed it wasn't. People are happier compromising for Trump though because they're sick democrats and republicans being the exact same. Obama was just Bush 2.0. Now they want Hillary as Obama 2.0. The GOP has been shit since 2008 so thats not really surprising that they sucked at picking candidates this year.
Democrats could have easily done well if they would have just had a moderate unextreme candidate.
As a trans female, would voting for Trump help or hurt me?
>>66826710
Didn't you have a more moderate candidate that people just complained about for being "too conservative"? Jim Webb or something?
>>66819245
Couldn't you say that about Trump too though? Mexico is a sovereign nation. They're not going to build a giant fucking wall AND pay for it just because Trump tells them to.
>>66827071
Yeah i honestly would have probably voted democrat and picked Jim Webb but the demovrats were stupid and decided he wasn't Obama 2.0 enough.
>>66819245
Pragmatically the repubs and dems would form supermajorities on big bills and his influence will be for negligible. A politician that can't negotiate is playing a weak hand. Our system doesn't allow for dictatorships, and the veto power at the executive is a weak card. The only advantage of being president is the power of the pulpit, allowing the president to directly address the American public and put pressure on issues he backs.
>>66827125
We're building the wall. They're paying for it. Why do you aussies even talk about politics if you're not even going to bother to lurk enough to learn it?
>>66826839
He's a conservative but not crazy religious so probably no net gain or loss for you.
>>66819245
>year is 2017, bernie is president.
>he tries to get his socialist shit through congress, but fails.
>as a result, he decides to do it piecemeal, raising Payroll and Income taxes in one bill, and then instituting healthcare and college fixes in the next.
>yfw congress passes the tax increases but not the social programs.
>yfw everyone got fucked with taxes and didn't even get anything in return.
>yfw you realize this is what happens every time Congress raises taxes.
>>66822816
>Obama decided to be bipartisan
HAHAHAHAHA, when was that exactly?
>GOP has house and senate control.....
>>66824903
>If the other side's idea of "working with you" is turning your ideas into the big-business shilling you were against
False dichotomy.
If your ideas have merit and you are influential YOU WORK TO CONVINCE THE OPPOSITION OF THEIR MERITS.
Bernie has no practice doing this. He's too petulant and dogmatic.
>>66827259
So you build a wall and tell Mexico to pay for it and they tell you to get fucked.
>>66823828
>one day after michigan primary....
>>66822557
Trump has the advantage of having a lot of what he wants to do already on the books. They just need to be enforced.
>>66827579
As much shit as trump gets ut is SUPER easy to use the fms office or other gov trade orgs to charge mexico for the wall.....the international community does this all the fuckin time.
>>66827579
LURK MORE you fucking idiot. This is why everyone calls aussies shitposters. I'm going to waste a second on you since you're clearly new here but its been discussed a million times how it will be paid for. Foreign aid cuts, tariffs, decreased costs of illegals, more visa costs, and more. Now please go lurkmore and quit being a stupid shitposter.
Serious question: how do Trump and his supporters rationalize the fact that little to none of his proposed ideas (especially shit like building a wall and banning muslims) have any chance of getting through either house of Congress?
I'm sure Trump genuinely believes he can, but in all likelihood he'll be forced to either renege on his campaign promises or pull a Frank Underwood and abuse his executive power. I mean just look at the difference between the ACA when it was first proposed and when it was signed into law.
>>66827929
>the international community does this all the time
I really don't know what are you talking about, a sovereign nation cannont be coerced or obligated to pay for anything it doesn't want to, unless it is to solvent debt.
I too, would like to see America be great again, but most of you Trump cucks are fucking retarded.
>>66828370
I think everyone has that in the back of their mind, but i am mainly voting for him to piss off liberals and true conservatives.
>>66828370
Even Obama temporarily banned Muslims. Congress doesn't come into play at all.
>>66828132
BZZZT wrong hahahahaha
>>66828370
Well lets see
1.) Its a republican controlled congress
2.) Temporary bans of immigrants have happened before
3.) Wall is plausible that it could get denied but theres no reason to considering how much illegals cost and how most republicans vote for a more secure border anyways.
Oh and hi .reddit.
>>66827125
People, especially those unfamiliar with American politics, like to compare Bernie and Trump due to the general anti-establishment vibe they give off, but there's a key difference between them.
Trump is a demagogue whose overarching message is more important than his ideas, while Bernie is an ideologue whose overarching message is comprised of his ideas and their underlying ideology. This isn't to say one is better than the other, just that the only thing they share is their hatred of the establishment.
>>66828756
Lel you got me epix shitpoasting troll lawlz xD
It's called "checks and balances".
>Congress
What don't you understand about POLITICAL REVOLUTION?
We'll just kill anyone who disagrees.
>>66820418
>this is what millennials actually believe
