There's something about this argument I find wrong, and it's not just because it has 'feminism' in it.
>>66756719
They weaponize their vanity.
Out of context quote and complete misreading of Berger.
>>66756719
Dudes with Selfie Photos as profile pictures are seen as vain on dating sites. Hell, the word narcissism comes from the story of Narcissus, a male god who fell in love with his own reflection and starved to death looking at himself.
Nobody likes vain people, regardless of gender.
>>66756719
They're so vain they can't tell the difference between vanity and appreciation?
They admit they, too, enjoy the female form but somehow sculptures and paintings were made only for men.
I still don't quite get what it's actually arguing though, are they arguing for selfies, vanity or feminism or what?
Some girl told me it was a very valid point?
These people do not understand basic concepts like modesty and vanity.
It's only expected of someone who's obsessed with themselves to be a stranger to virtues and flaws, they only see what they want to see, academia has made sure to cripple them like that.
They are incomplete human beings, something reminiscent of an autistic, entitled, pleasure driven hog.
>>66756719
create women so it's not man's fault when women are vain.
It is a man's fault if he paints a picture of a vain woman. He makes that a vain picture.
Also it's dumb to examine people's twitter posts or youtube comments. It's the lowest common denominator shouting at no one. The modern version of the crazy person ranting on the street.
>>66756719
It's a sophist argument.
The argument begins with the conclusion (patriarchy is bad, my soggy knees, muh female empowerment), then seeks to justify the 'politically correct' conclusion, as opposed to forming an unbiased, apolitical, personal critique.
I don't know who the sculptor was, nor do I know what they were thinking when they created the sculpture. I only claim to know my own feelings.
>>66756719
>why does adding a phone make the female sculpture look stupid
>I'm 100% for selfie """culture""" because we females get attention for being stupid
>in the end, we realize that we're stupid
>that's a good thing
FUCKING WHAT.
>>66756719
Because it is vain to look at yourself and is admiration to look at someone else. There is no argument. There is no point. It's just a fucking statement that leads her to some dumb fucking conclusion about her own life because she's a retarded person. It's the dumbest thing I've ever read
>sculptures like these were for the male gaze
I call bullshit on this one. There were plenty of nude male statues. It's possible to appreciate the aesthetics of the human form and marvel at the talent required to recreate it in marble without bringing in sexuality. It's not like people openly masturbated to this thing wherever it was displayed. Death of the Author and all. I don't even think anything sexual when I look at either of these statues.
>suddenly she's vain and conceited
>men can gawk at women
>when we realize how beautiful we are we're suddenly full of ourselves
I get the feeling this was written by an ugly fatass desperately looking for a self-esteem boost.
So the crux of the argument is that men oppress women by convincing them it's wrong to look at their beauty while admiring their bodies at the same time.
I don't even know where to start with what's wrong with this argument. This reads like the product of mental illness and a victim complex.
>>66756719
Vapid debate about a vapid issue.
People are still only interested because you have a hole and this hole is "hot" to us.
>>66757729
Was about to post exactly this.
Its a study of the human form.
>>66756719
Those sculptures were an appreciation of female "beauty" in general. They werent depictions of specific sluts back in the day. The artists mostly drew idealised perfected views of their preferred women. Same with male sculptures like Heracles .
Appreciating a sculpture of a name-less feminine form is miles away from taking pictures of one-self in highly compromising poses every 5 hours as a feedback high to get "MUH GOD YOU SO HAWT".
Being vain and appreciating art are very different things. Vanity and narcissism are very negative world views, which will make your reality shatter, by the time your tits start sagging at 26.
As for the "quote". Random anecdotal quotes are irrelevant. Its just a way to rationalise their own self-obsession.
>selfie
>culture
Pick fucking one. Maybe some of you guys are too young to remember, but before every electronic device had a camera, women used to be more grounded.
I remember when I started college 10 years ago, youd see the first normies with affordable digital cameras. These girls started taking pictures of themselves in groups etc.
Then facebook happened and it was a great way to "sell" your lifestyle. Eventually a few companies started putting cameras in their phones and voila... selfie culture boomed.
These women have no shame.
I personally cant wait for the US to get thouroughly glassed back to the stone age.
Yes men like boobs and butts and women are vain.
What's her point? Men liking soft mounds doesn't refute women being vain as fuck, or the observation of that.
>>66756719
The problem with this argument is that it assumes the primary objection to "selfie culture" is women being proud of themselves. This, of course, is false. People are repulsed by selfie culture because it's vapid and falls utterly short of human potential. It's symptomatic of a wider society which also lives for the gratification of each instant, and takes no thought for its future. Those who raise objections to "selfie culture" object equally to the effects of social media, and a hedonistic hook up culture.
This argument is just another lazy attempt by an armchair activist to take what she was already doing anyway and reframe it as part of a revolutionary cause.
>>66756719
Young naked women are created for admiration tho
>>66759596
I think what annoys me is that they look at shit that was made 2000~ years ago and then apply it with their feminist tunnel vision to it, even if these statues were somehow used as playboy magazines back in the day and not actually works from skilled artists (who sculpted all sorts of things, not just women) , it's easy to shit on or be selective with a mindset that existed hundreds of years ago with my own 'half- baked postmodern tumblr philosophy '
>>66756719
Let me see if I understand this.
>Apparently, Men make sculptures of naked women for themselves.
>If I photoshop this phone in, suddenly its vain, even though I'm the only one who has seen this picture until it was posted, so I'm actually the one who thinks the statue is vain.
>Even though I think its vain to have this statue taking pictures of itself, I still support taking pictures of myself.
>>66756719
I think it is correct to say that when women do not have to rely on male eyes in order to find themselves attractive, their power level suddenly increases.
It's called self-cofidence.
The argument is just saying this:
>womens' vanity has always be frowned upon
>because by banning vanity you make them reliant on others for judgement in beauty
>so it is a way to enslave them to male judgement
I am sympathetic with this argument, but I disagree that, just because the banning of vanity was a tool of control, then it means vanity is a good thing in itself.
1. Vanity is good if it helps your self-confidence.
2. But vanity is bad if it fosters your egoism and makes you forget about others and think only for yourself.
So yeah, vanity is a morally ambiguous concept.
A better argument should be: "No. 2 is correct, but it shouldn't be used to prevent No. 1 from occurring".
>>66756719
The selfie really is the new mirror of vanity, the difference is that you're showing it to everyone else too.
Also ancient masters didn't depict beauty from a godawfu myspace angle with duckface.
Also2 her argument is that female vanity is good just because the patriarchy says is bad, ignoring how male vanity has also always been frowned upon, see narcisus.
>>66757729
>Olympian not so tough after loosing his pecker
>>66756719
>a girl says I have a massive dick
>I then tell someone I have a massive dick
>suddenly I'm vain and narcissistic
>>66757729
>I call bullshit on this one. There were plenty of nude male statues. It's possible to appreciate the aesthetics of the human form and marvel at the talent required to recreate it in marble without bringing in sexuality.
Women don't know that. Women cannot understand things beyond the surface layer.
Ask a woman why Sam and Frodo were the absolute best of buds.
>>66757077
No, he saw his reflection at a river, fell and drowned himself, other sources claim that he killed himself since he couldn't fuck himself.
>>66762317
>Ask a woman why Sam and Frodo were the absolute best of buds.
She will answer: "because they were repressed gays".
>>66756719
Because there's a huge difference in admiring yourself and admiring someone else.
>>66756719
Women take selfies to show men
Its no different than painting
