Is their honor in going down with the ship, or is it better to live to sail another day? Is the captain's ultimate loyalty in sailing itself, or in a specific vessel?
You are responsible for the ship and the passengers. If you ram it into the goldsteinberg without purpose, killing thousands, you better not make it out alive.
>>66659590
The captain us supposed to save himself last, so the general idiom goes about saying that he should be the last one on board.
>>66659590
When did Théoden get a captain hat?
>>66659970
Your responsibility is to see every last person off the ship. Pretty sure thats maritime law. A captain doesn't need to always go down with it. If every person is off no one is going to look down on the Captain coming too. You also wouldn't go down with a ship you scuttled of course.
>>66659590
It's about motivation. If the captain knows he can get out of a fuck up and live another day he won't be as careful as knowing being careless is a certain death penalty for him.
>>66659970
So do you mean that a captain should go down with the ship as a form of self-punishment, or to avoid outside punishment for failure? Like seppuku?
>>66660105
So it is a self-sacrificial acknowledgement of personal failure? Why wouldn't a doctor kill himself for losing a patient then? The patient's life was his responsibility and he failed. Why don't doctors "go down with the patient?" Where is the difference?
I'm not trying to fling shit, I'm just trying to understand the concept better.
>>66660545
That's correct. I was referring specifically to Titanic case. Personally I would off myself rather than standing trial. Honorable end as opposed to life in regret.
>>66660700
Yes, in cases like the Titanic.
>>66659590
It's better to get 8 repeating 6s
>>66661085
Where is the honor in killing yourself to escape punishment? That's like throwing a party in high school and then running away to avoid your parent's judgement instead of cleaning up and making amends. It's like abandoning a child and mother to avoid the responsibility. Isn't it cowardly to avoid responsibility, especially after you fucked up so badly? "I know I am a failure, but I would rather die than have to face that reality." When has avoiding reality been honorable?
>>66660700
I guess it could be seen as self sacrifice. I think it's a culturally exclusive thing to sailors though, thus why doctors don't do the same. I tried looking into it more, and there isn't really a concrete definition to it. Not all captains do this, so I'm assuming that the sacrifice means whatever the captain wants it to mean on a personal level. For observers it may be the same case, purely a personal agenda as to why the go down with the ship.
>>66660700
To choose an honorable end.
The captain is responsible for all the souls on board. Honorably, he is the last to leave the ship, making sure all others get to safety first. If you can't get everyone else off, and you rescue yourself, it becomes a shame you have to live with.
>>66661493
But again, that seems like a weakness to me, an unwillingness to face the realities of your shame. A captain that sinks his ship has done something wrong and shameful, so why is he revered just because he was too cowardly to face the realities of his failure? "They will be mean to me because I broke the vase, so I'll take my own life in order to avoid that meanness."
>>66659590
The reason why you go down with your ship is because legally its easier for the company and for you.
>>66661448
Kinda, it's more like taking immediate responsibility and death by drowning voluntarily is probably more harsh than any conviction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVJWe9Tj6mU
>They say that the captain stays fast with the ship through still and storm
When that Korean ferry overturned the captain quietly evacuated the ship with people he liked and issued no warning the ferry was sinking.
His name?captain sensible
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/28/south-korean-ferry-captains-sentence-revised-to-life-in-prison-for-homicide
>>66661889
if there are still people on the ship, it means (theoretically) that there are no resources available to get them off, which means there are none left for the captain either.
a captain who escapes from his ship while there are still other people aboard is a captain who did not do all he could to save his passengers, since to escape while leaving others behind implies that the captain took advantage of resources at the expense of the people he was supposed to be protecting.
of course the "rules" change if the captain is himself a person of great import, like an admiral or some shit whose skills are necessary for a war effort, but in the case we're talking about think of the captain as a kind of bodyguard for everybody else on the ship. his job is to make sure everyone is safe, and if he puts his life ahead of his charges then he isn't doing his job
>>66659590
you should be the last one off the ship,unless you are an Italian in which case you can abandon the ship without telling the passengers and then claim you 'fell into the life boat'
>>66662034
That makes more sense. The problem is that the honor of the sacrifice is kind of assumed without understanding the motive, since the captain is dead. If he did it in order to acknowledge his failure and to take his deserved death into his own hands, then I would call that honorable. If he did it because he couldn't take the inevitable shame, then that is an action from weakness and dishonorable in my opinion. The problem is that the honor is given universally even though we can't ever know the captain's motivation.
>>66662762
>if there are still people on the ship, it means (theoretically) that there are no resources available to get them off, which means there are none left for the captain either.
This makes the most sense, but again, this would be an unavoidable death, so I don't see where honor enters in.
>a captain who escapes from his ship while there are still other people aboard is a captain who did not do all he could to save his passengers, since to escape while leaving others behind implies that the captain took advantage of resources at the expense of the people he was supposed to be protecting.
This makes even more sense. I can understand how expending all of your life saving resources to others knowing that your allowance would trap you inside of the sinking vessel could be called honorable.
