Who doesn't people save for retirement anymore?
>For every age group under 65, the prospects for a financially sound retirement have diminished over the past 15 years, new research shows.
>The hardest hit age brackets have been millennials, in this case defined as those aged 25-34. The study said that group’s financial security dropped 8%, on average, since 2000. Security for those aged 35-54 fell 7% over the same period, and was down 4% for those aged 55-64.
Read:
http://time.com/money/4226396/retirement-crisis-millennials-gen-x-boomers/
It's common sense..... Why can't people look further than the weekend? What is responsibility.
> make £50k a year
> safe 1/4 of income
> invest
> only been working 10 years almost worth half a million
>turn on news
>MUH outrage retirement age 82
What the fuck were these retards doing for 60 years?
Naaah. Later. I have to reach level 60 in fantasy universe first.
>>66538349
What did you invest in?
Because personal responsibility has been replaced by government dependence.
>why should I save money? The government will take care of me anyways! #yolo
>>66538864
Covered calls in BBC and a 3x ETF on getting cucked
retirement is what boomer's get and no one else.
the gen before them didn't even "retire".
>>66539077
That's trading and not investing.
>>66538173
No male in my family has made it past 58 except my grandfather.
>>66538173
I'm GenZ , but I do save alot.
I'm living frugally, not paying one cent more than I absolutely have to.
I'm studying and therefore have only a side job, but I'm saving up to 1300€ per year.
After my studies I should be at about 6000-7000€ which is quite fair to start off.
Most students begin their lives with student debts.
>>66539209
>he thinks they are two different things
kek
>>66538173
Wages are too low to make retirement savings viable. This is especially true for young people.
>>66538173
>He believes in the "retirement meme"
My generation will LITERALLY never be able to retire, not in the modern sense of the word anyway.
It's best to invest in my body and health because I will be working till death, if robots have not taken all the jobs soon.
Maybe because our pension funds can be wiped at the next financial hiccup
>>66539408
I work in finance. Get out. Go back to your playground @ /biz/.
>>66538173
Why is there a woman in the car?
>>66539497
>I work in finance
I have a 20 inches chocolate penis ejaculating money, nice to meet you
>>66539428
If you live long enough you have a chance to retire in sickness and bad health, but only if you live that long. The age keeps going up and jobs aren't permanent.
>>66539550
Jesus Christ, he is right you know.
Saving up for that sweet sweet robot body in the future.
>>66539596
Dark times are ahead friend, we gotta have a plan for when the system eventually collapses.
>>66539633
>robot body
Literally working for somebody else. Your existence is unimportant when a robot mimics your existence. Copy+past of your memory doesn't makes you live longer, only transfers that memory to a robot.
>>66539512
top kek.
/thread
>>66539616
No he is not.
Investing is just a big words people n "finance" use to pretend they know what they are doing with someone else's money. It's just trading with a longer time horizon
>>66538173
>It's common sense..... Why can't people look further than the weekend? What is responsibility.
>Be forced to save for retirement in manditory collective-bargaining pension scemes
>Governments repeatedly grab money from the manditory pension pools
>Pension age raised for the generation of our parents, from 65 to 67
>By the time we retire it'll likely be 75
>No guarantee the money you put in pension schemes will actually ever be payed out to you
And if you save for your own retirement you don't get the tax benefits the manditory pension schemes have, if you're even able to opt out (not always possible under collective bargaining agreements).
It makes no sense to save for your own retirement at this point... You're literally better off reaching retirement age without a penny in your name.
>>66539651
>implying it didn't already
You can't buy anything or work with anybody without everybody trying to screw you.
>>66539408
He's right though. Intraday trading isn't investing.
>>66539740
You obviously don't understand the difference. You don't invest in geared products. I agree, you should leave.
I have a defined benefits pension but I will probably invest in property and a private pension too. Might buy some gold just for fun.
>>66539721
My legacy will live on
>>66539497
How much do you earn as a finance man in Norway? You in Oslo?
>>66539894
>implying anybody cares of a legacy of a dead genius from 100 years ago, not to mention you. People on /pol/ don't even care about reading past the title of an article.
>>66539804
>Intraday trading
I never mentioned daytrading
>>66539810
>i shill worthless derivatives to dumb goys so i can earn a commission, which automatically makes me a grand finance 4chan master pro
>>66538173
You are taxed on pensions. So the more money you save for retirement, the higher you are taxed on it. Additionally, the baby boomers generally got good pension schemes where the company would pay in around 12% of your wage packet, not to mention that they could actually afford houses, whereas now the value of these same properties have been inflated 5 times over. Couple that with the fact that you have to waste the first few years of your adult life in university before you can realistically expect a decent paying job (which in the UK they charge you for, meaning you graduate with 25k in debt), and as a result people question if they'll even survive to 65, let alone retire comfortably
>>66540240
Pensions are tax free. They are taxed when they are payed to you but generally pensions are a smaller than gross salery so you pay less tax on the money. It's a good way to reduce your tax.
>>66540100
You think investing is a synonym with institutional asset management. Everyone can invest. Institutions, retails and so on. To even suggest that investing = trading..... Do you even have any kind of exposure to the markets?
>>66540355
Not in the UK. Generally, the first 25% is tax free which amounts to £10,600. After that it's in line with income tax. For example, if you save £86,000, you'll be taxed at 40%.
Meanwhile, niggers are retired at birf
>>66540434
t b h mate it's not unreasonable to consider trading as very short term investing, you seem to be becoming mad and it's not necessary
>>66539740
>>66540100
What the fuck am i reading
>>66540434
Trading = you buy/short some shit and liquidate your position somewhere in the future
Investing = you buy/short some shit and liquidate your position somewhere in the future
Remind me how is it any different? Ah yes, the investor has to call a bank, pay a lot of useless commissions, usually can't have any leverage. Also little or none control over drawdown, volatility, your capital can be tied for months.
But hey, you can feel important and shit in the meanwhile and tell your friends you "invested"
>>66540826
>you seem to be becoming mad and it's not necessary
Stop projecting.
>not unreasonable to consider trading as very short term investing
You don't just miss the target, you completely miss the entire dartboard.
>>66541067
wew
Confirms the above.
Most of the estimates here say, that I could retire when 75 years old.
So no, I am really not going to save any money. Since 1) I don't have any 2) I won't retired until I will be dead or near dead.
>>66541067
>Ah yes, the investor has to call a bank, pay a lot of useless commissions, usually can't have any leverage. Also little or none control over drawdown, volatility, your capital can be tied for months.
I.e: Trading is not investing?
>>66541169
Why would I be mad? I'm not even in the discussion mate.
>>66541169
I myself trade forex and commodities for a living. And I think the Italian anon is right and you are wrong.
The only difference between trading and investing, IMO, is about TA vs FA. And FA works only on higher time frames.
>>66541067
>>66541432
>>66541641
You're investing in an underlying asset that you expect to appreciate over time because growth and value increases. That doesn't have to be true when it comes to trading. You can trade securities regardless of fundamental changes to the underlying asset.
Do you now see why you don't invest in let's say, currencies, commodities, futures, securities that are fundamentally depreciating (despite the stock price increasing).
Retails like you and me can both invest and trade, it's not something that banks, brokerages, mutual funds (investing only), hedge funds or other financial institutions have a monopoly on.
>>66541641
>imo
This is why Vietnam can't have nice things.
>>66541712
> You're investing in an underlying asset that you expect to appreciate over time because growth and value increases.
In trading terminology, this is called "long" or "buy". So if I trade XAUUSD on the monthly timeframe and make a buy order today then close the trade in 10 months, what would you call? Do I trade gold or invest in gold?
>>66541914
> This is why Vietnam can't have nice things.
Different people have different tastes, what is nice to you may be disgusting to me and vice versa.
>>66541981
You don't invest for 10 months, that is trading. I can't see how you're not getting it. You're obviously not doing this for a living, that is for sure.
>>66538173
When I lived in America everyone could barely even make it to the weekend while actively trying to save.
Living in Australia was the first time I had a chance to actually save for retirement, I'm obsessed with it now, I badgered my employer relentlessly to get a better Superannuation going. My wife hardly understands it, and I keep it a secret that there's a 250k life insurance policy on me.
[spoiler]
There's one on her too.[/spoiler]
>>66538173
Problem is all these fucks before us never had any responsibility either, so now they're protesting all the time to retire at fucking 55-60 and still take a huge pension all at the expense of us because they didn't want to save
Fuck these people, I'd cut pensions to just the bare minimum
>>66541712
Jesus christ dude you're clueless.
>you don't invest in things that are fundamentally depreciating
Except that is exactly what "investors" do. You grab something cheap now, so it becomes expensive later.
>>66541641
>And FA works only on higher time frames
More or less this. But it's even more useless than pure TA because what fundamentals do and what the market expects them to do are two entirely different things (see the poor cucks who got long Nikkei and shorted JPY ahead of Kuroda's intervention)
>>66541981
>Would you call that trading or investing
That is literally position trading you fx fraud. I don't mean to be rude but come on now. This is the basic of the basic and you're doing this for a "living"?
>>66542299
Well, i have done my part. Nature has it's flaws.
>>66542355
Institutional investors rebalance their portfolios (open/close new positions) every quarter or so. You fail once more
>>66542153
I dont need to prove anything on the internet but the actual fact is that trading is my only source of income and I make good money with it. Im 33 years old, a former civil engineer before switching to full time trading.
Back to the trading vs investing topic, so how long I should hold my long positions to be called an "investor'?
Consumerist brainwashing.
I cannot believe that people are willing to spend 1/4 of their yearly salary on freaking car.
I mean, how can you be so financially retarded?
Because I'm retired now, and when I'm actually of "retirement age" I'll probably have either died in the happening or of cancer.
Carpe fucking diem.
>>66540826
dont blame those idiots, look how they get educated, pic related. they are dumb with a strong belief they are right. cant blame them.
>>66542497
Fucking yes, but it's usually not the same position. I'm screencapping this thread. Holy shit.
>>66539745
Most sane people maximize their pillar 1 and pillar 2 pension schemes and have a couple of hundred thousand in personal savings as well.
>>66542355
>This is the basic of the basic and you're doing this for a "living"?
Ive been trading for 6 years and I still dont know the "basics" you are talking about. The only "basics" I know and care about are trends, TF, Ss & Rs and that works well for me.
>>66542724
Expat i suppose?
>>66538173
I'm 32 and I've already got over 200k saved in various retirement accounts.
It's really not that hard, people. Find a company that has a good 401k plan. Look for company match of at least 5% as well as an annual profit sharing.
You save until it hurts, then save a little more.
>>66542724
Because you're a "trader", but i expect you to have basic knowledge about finance, doesn't make sense that you trade and don't know the difference.
>>66538173
Only retards would save their money in the system. Things like gold, silver and property is the only things that are safe in the long run but those things don't count as saving for retirement since its not in the system.
>>66542834
No, Im from Vietnam. Im actually watching the charts right now.
>>66542907
> Because you're a "trader", but i expect you to have basic knowledge about finance, doesn't make sense that you trade and don't know the difference.
Im a former civil engineer, one day a friend introduced me to MT4 and trading and I realized that the markets always follow certain rules and patterns and Ive become a full time trader since then.
The only things I know about trading are draw charts and deposit and withdraw money.
>>66542871
On a scale from 0 to 6 million how mad will you be when the government seizes your 401k account to bail on the bankers?
>save money
>find Vietnamese girl
>marry Vietnamese girl to get easy Vietnam visa
>live comfy in cheap country with saved money and hot wife until ded
>>66540355
The term you are looking for, my friend, is "tax deferred". Many retirement vehicles are built this way.
>>66543378
9/11, i guess
>>66543222
So am i. Looking for a good spot to pile up some JPY longs
>>66543378
6 gorillion.
But my anger will be tempered by the inevitable happening shortly thereafter.
If it comes to the point of IRA and 401k confiscation then the end would be just around the corner.
>>66543499
you are overestimating yourself. Here's what would really happen in that situation.
>save money
>find gookess
>marry gookess so she gets easy visa to a western country
>she divorces you and moves to western country with her childhood friend Chingchang
>>66543840
Are you sure? Remember that most people don't save at all and if the bankers do something like negative interest rates, cashless society and then just give every one free neetbucks every month for no effort it would pacify the masses and you would just be that asshole privileged white guy shouting about how the banks stole your pensions.
TL;DR they will just turn the poor against the working class and laugh.
>>66538173
Because nobody is going to be able to retire anymore.
>>66538173
retirement is a trick, like a drug
the world goes to shit while you enjoy the littlebit you have left, the very reason the evil win is for good men to do nothing
>>66542516
Let me tell you why i think you're full of shit and don't do this for a living.
When you invest, you go by the notion that you're ''never'' going to sell. That is, if nothing fundamental changes for the worse. You're going to hold regardless of market volatility, hit pieces, trends, general market meltdown and so on. You don't care about the chart, you're look at how business is going.
When you trade, regardless, you're either using TA, FA or pure speculation in your strategy which might be long/short swing trading or perhaps monumentum trading. You might buy a security because some kind of trend has turned or you might sell because the overall market is heading down. You don't do that when you're investing. You don't care about the emotions and volatility going on in the market, the market is there to serve you, not dictate you. If business is going good and the market doesn't agree/reflect that, then so be it. You have done your due diligence and might add on dips because you know the fundamentals in the company is great. If you're a trader and buy something to hold it for 5 years then the whole point of trading is gone. The whole point of trading is to take advantge of market volatility so you can yield an absolute return that is better than lets say an index fund. What benchmark you use is up to you.
The fact that you don't understand this and insists that trading your own money is something you do for a living is mind blowing.
>>66544630
Stop ruining my fun. :(
>>66539651
I've got a 9mm retirement plan.
>>66544864
They don't see the difference between being long, trading and investing. Let it rest.
>>66544864
> The fact that you don't understand this and insists that trading your own money is something you do for a living is mind blowing.
Its actually quite simple to understand. If I think the price will rise, I long and if I think the price will fall, I short. Thats how I trade for a living.
> When you invest, you go by the notion that you're ''never'' going to sell. That is, if nothing fundamental changes for the worse. You're going to hold regardless of market volatility, hit pieces, trends, general market meltdown and so on. You don't care about the chart, you're look at how business is going.
Did I just mention about trading vs investing is all about TA vs FA? >>66541641
And you can know that Im a full time day trader by how calm I am to reply to your rude post. To be able to trade, I have to remain calm all the time.
>>66546321
The point isn't what you're doing for a living and watch Anton Kreil on YouTube. The point is to clarify some very simple principles about capital allocation. You have literally no reason to be upset, this is a forum, right?
You think investing is basically a very long trade. I explain here >>66544864 why that isn't the case.
That's all. Thank you, good bye. That's enough for me.
>>66542590
>>66546741
> You think investing is basically a very long trade
Thats what I believe. Warren Buffet buys a stock because he thinks the price will rise, right? And everybody calls him an "investor"
> The point is to clarify some very simple principles about capital allocation.
English is not my mother tongue so my message may be not understood correctly. What I understand is that investing is based on FA just like trading is based on TA. And when you invest in a stock, you believe the price will rise just like when I long a stock because I think the price will rise. But your analysis is based on FA while mine is based on TA.
> You have literally no reason to be upset, this is a forum, right?
Im not upset. Maybe its a cultural difference again. I just surf the net while watching the charts.
>>66547628
Trading - Investing is not primarily about time frame(10%), it's about your reason for holding an asset during that timeframe(90%).
This have to go in before we can progress further.
>>66547797
so whats wrong with my opinion that " Trading vs Investing = TA vs FA" ?
>>66547920
Beacuse there is a big difference surrounding the fact that you're using time and volatility to earn profit when you trading as opposed to investing. You can trade a security based on fundamental news too. The whole point of trading is gone if you're going to buy and hold an asset over 5 - 10 years which involves time and increased fundamental value. A transaction will happen at some point, but you're confusing that with the definition of trading.
Do you see the difference?
>>66538173
because millenials dont know how social security works
>>66547628
>>66548532
My point is that FA is not a synonym with investing and that TA is not a synonym with trading. There is more. There is a whole forest and we have to look at more than 4-5 trees if we're going to define them and understand the difference. As in relation to the original posts >>66539209
>>66539408
