Were they godless liberals?
>>66517124
Nah they were just racist pieces of shit.
>>66517192
Found the godless liberal
>>66517124
Deist
>>66517124
They were classical liberals, the only good kind.
>believing the marxist interpretation of our history
No, they enabled the most prominent and relevant religious revival in any western country to occur.
>>66517449
>I'm a "classical liberal"
>>66517124
You could say they were a form of Libertarian, but not as retarded about it.
no they believe the church had a role in morality
source:
g.wub's farewell speech
jefferson's eternal writings on defending himself from being labeled an atheist
>>66517124
>godless
they were mostly christian, occasionally deist
>liberals
In the classical sense yes but not in the modern sense. I believe they were the 'left wing' of their time but not like the radical Jacobian leftists.
>>66517376
Master race
>>66517124
They sure as hell weren't jews
So Cuckservatives can can the "Judeochristian" bullshit
>>66517124
Godless yes, liberals no. Unless you go by the old definition.
>>66517549
fuck off
>>66517124
No, some of them were religious and some of them weren't, but they all seen the benefits of separating church and state.
They we're secularists.
>>66517749
Someone insult your fedora collection? Need a safe space?
I need some kind of source that these men weren't godless.
>inb4 we aren't doing your homework OP
>>66517942
Who gives a shit what was said or wanted before the 1st Amendment? It's irrelevant.
If the founding fathers wanted an official state religion they would have done it. They clearly understood that religion is useful for personal lives but doesn't serve much purpose in other aspects of a functioning society.
They were libertarians like our based godders
>>66517827
>but they all seen the benefits of separating church and state.
What? Fuck you dude. You dont know shit.
Every state government had an official religious at the time of the founding. The US government hired chaplins shortly after the founding. For years after the constitution was written, the US congress building was used for sunday service.
'Separation of church and state' isnt in the US constitution. It wasnt even the intention. Many of the US founding fathers wanted the states to be protected from the federal government interfering with their official state sponsored religions. Thats that what 'establishment of religion' meant. The US congress cant make a law interfering with a religion that is established in law. Religions can be recognized in law however.
>>66517192
Jefferson called slavery an abomination and condemned it in the original draft of the declaration of independence. It was taken out to keep the support of the southern colonies in the revolution
>>66518501
>'Separation of church and state' isnt in the US constitution.
they were just talented and influencial men who wanted to build a new country. they disagreed on many things. some were Christians, some were non-religious
>>66518646
Are you a moron? Its not. 'Separation of church and state' is from a private letter Thomas Jefferson sent to someone. Its not in the US constitution.
Im not even saying that the modern first amendment law is bad, or that 'separation of church and state' shouldnt be how we do things in this country, but its plainly wrong that the framers of the US constitution meant it. The original meaning of the first amendment is in some respects, very different from- perhaps even plainly contradicting- modern first amendment law.
>>66518821
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
Seems pretty clear to me, bruh.
>>66518501
It is literally right in the first amendment you illiterate retard, it isn't even remotely ambiguous.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hYzX3YZoMrs
Jefferson was anti central bank
They were largely Deist.
Believed in a higher power, but had no personal religious leaning. Many were also Christians as well.
Hardly godless.
>>66517124
Liberals? Yes.
Godless? No.
They were real liberals; not these limp-wristed safe space faggots that cry racist whenever someone disagrees with them and vote for bigger government and higher taxes. They all put their lives and reputations on the line to give the middle finger to King George.
>>66519235
Why is Teddy Roosevelt there clapping for Obama, this makes no sense.
>>66519081
Things seem pretty clear when you do zero research into the matter and forgive yourself unconditionally.
Im not wrong about what I said in: >>66518501, and neither is >>66517507 None of the framers of the US constitution understood the second amendment to mean that government and religion cannot intermix. In fact, many of them viewed it as protecting the capacity of religion and government to mix.
What it means to make 'no long respecting a religion' is actually really confusing and unclear. I dont think we are in a legal crisis, but the establishment clause jurisprudence is weird. For example, the draft violates the religious beliefs of the amish, who believe its wrong to fight in war. So if the law says 'you have to fight in the war' then its clearly violating peoples religious rights. But if the law said 'you dont have to fight in the war, unless you are amish', then its protecting religious rights, but acknowledging them in law.
You are trying to act like the text of the first amendment is clearly in line with 'separation of church and state', when in reality, the government actually needs to acknowledge 'established religions' in order to protect them. The US federal government could hypothetically deprive every one of their religious rights without making any law 'with respect to an established religion'. If the establishment clause prohibits the US government from acknowledging religions, then its actually a tool to deprive people of their religious rights.
>>66517894
>libertarians
>safe space
man you people are confused
>>66518646
>A leaf
>knows anything about the constitution
>>66519355
Because he's a big gov president. A pre-progressive.
Looks like Wilson is upset though
>>66519106
Im telling you it is. I love the law, Ive read hundreds of pages of originalist academic law papers. Ive listened through hours and hours of history and constitutional law lectures. The founding fathers of the US didnt have the faintest idea of what you consider 'literally right there in the first amendment'.
>>66519081
yes, Congress is restricted from interfering with the religious matters of the states.
>>66518603
and abraham lincoln fought a giant fucking war over it and still thought they were inferior and should be deported back to africa
>>66518603
>jefferson
>anti slavery
Then why did he never free his slaves
>>66519576
Jesus Christ its like watching a gun-grabber attempt to interpret the 2nd Amendment.
>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
If anything this is even clearer than the 2nd Amendment.
>>66519775
Sure, he was the Trump of his day. I can't recall him ever taking any actions or stances that put him at odds with the Constitution though.
>>66520088
yes, because religious matters were left up to the states you fucking idiot.
>>66518603
he was poor -200,000 dollars in debt towards the end of his life
he had 2 daughters and nothing to give them
financially it would of been a disaster but he did buy slaves to keep their slave family together.
Freeing an uneducated slave is like releasing your domesticated dog into the fucking wild and say "live free!"
>>66519935
should have deported them all when we had the chance
>>66520030
debnts, they were assets to keep his plantation running. he outlawed slave importation in Virginia and almost passed a federal ban of slavery in new territories in 1784. Also see >>66520374
As someone who works in a courtroom every day trying to interpret laws and founding documents, in addition to being extremely interested in us history, I can back up the claim that the founders were very religious, and wanted to protect state religions by proventing federal intervention or bias.
In other words, it was there to stop the Quakers from going to war with the Lutherans. Not to ban religion from government.
>>66520187
The claim was that Separation of Church and State was not a part of the Constitution, when it is clearly right there in the 1st Amendment. This only deals with the Federal Government, nobody said anything about it applying to every State Government as well.
>>66517124
deist, so no
>>66517124
why is there a nigger in the back center
>>66519645
Funny thing is probably every other political philosophy wishes they had a safe space from libertarians. Something about the ideas scares them.
>>66520088
Im curious then. What do you think an 'establishment of religion' means? How is an 'establishment of a religion' different from 'a religion'? What does it mean that no 'no law' can 'respect' one?
The establishment of religion is a religion that has been established.... in law. When a government, like a state government, says 'we are baptist', they have established a religion. It means the opposite of 'separation of church and state'. The establishment clause says the federal government is not allowed to separate church and state.
>>66520548
AYY YO HOL' UP
*smacks lips*
SO YOU SAYIN WE BE REVOLTIN AN' SHIT?
*cracks 40*
AYY LAMAR, GRAB THA CHOPPERS
>>66520666
pope's influence on the european nation
the church of (in) england
tired of outsiders influencing domestic issues and causing "just" grounds for wars
>>66520666
>>66520478
>>66520088
To elaborate. The establishment clause doesnt prohibit the federal government from establishing a religion. It prohibits them from making laws about established religions. A religion that is not established in law, is by definition, not an establishment of religion.
The establishment clause doesnt prohibit the US federal government from doing something nuts like making a law that says. 'We are a christian nation, and the US president has to be christian.'
>>66520478
The Separation of Church and State was first applied to the first amendment by Justice Black in the 40s. You're also mistreating Chirstianity as a "church". Church implies ecclesiastical authority, Christianity is just a common set of beliefs based around Jesus. Almost all founding fathers were Christian in that regard, even Jefferson wanted the Official seal to be Moses drowning the Pharoah in the red sea.
>>66520793
How much of your brain did you have to lose to craft that post?
>>66520088
Just stepping in to call you a dumbass.
Check up on how many of his acts were struck down as unconstitutional. The guy literally fucking ripped up and spit on our constitution. Read up on his 'court packing' scheme. Trying to get scotus to agree with him and when they didn't, he tried to remove them and get others in. Ridiculous.
Easily the worst liberal president we've had.
