What's your position on non-violent felons losing their 2nd amendment right?
If you arent in jail anymore you should get your rights back. If you fuck up bad enough that we consider taking your rights away then you shouldn't be walking around with the rest of us.
>>66501233
You can also lose your right to vote senpai
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
>>66501233
completly against
>>66501233
Can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Honestly, losing your 2nd amendment right or right to vote is the least of your worries if you are a felon. It's a stigma that will follow you your whole life.
Plus, it's only a technicality. Felons can own antique weapons, and black power replicas, and last I checked, they still can kill people just as well as they did in the 1800's.
>>66501233
idiotic
ie you smoke weed you loose your rifles and shotguns here(and guns if you have those, people for the most part have the two first). Somehow that makes you unfit to hunt... Atm they even take your drivers license away, for sitting in your own god damn house and smoking a joint then go to bed.. I bring you norway the nanny state
other such things to I guess causes these things, it's quite frankly sick. Some idiots in oslo deciding these things fuck them all, glass oslo. Fucking paki-homostan.. what do these assholes know about hunting or fucking driving for that matter.
>>66501559
But the average american commits on average 3 felonies a day.
I received a class c felony in 2008 had 5 years probation. Been trying to get my rights restored ever since. It's a lengthy and unlikly process.
>>66501233
Depends on the nature of the felony laws already exist that cover this. Some felons are able to own Rifles/shotguns for home defence so nothing needs to be done.
>>66501872
>But the average american commits on average 3 felonies a day.
[citation needed]
We're still a majority white country, for now.
>>66501559
>Can't do the time, don't do the crime
You assume everyone convicted actually committed the crime they were charged with. You are a moron.
>>66501233
>What's your position on non-violent felons losing their 2nd amendment right?
Perfectly A-OK, and constitutionally justified as well.
You can't break the law, you can only break yourself against the law.
>>66501354
This
>>66501968
Nothing to do with race. It is overcriminilization.
http://mic.com/articles/86797/8-ways-we-regularly-commit-felonies-without-realizing-it#.OE60bMJst
If someone who has payed their debt to society for breaking a law, yet they still can't be trusted with a gun, why are the allowed out on the street and not still in jail?
Makes no sense. If you've served your sentence, you shouldn't still be punished for life for making a mistake.
>>66501233
It gives more incentive to fabricate charges on everyone who politically doesn't align with the sysrem. They already do this shit.
>>66501559
My father got a felony for a bad check over 40 years ago.
Is that really a good reason that he can't own a firearm or vote?
>>66501233
well if they're a non-violent felon, that doesn't mean they are good, clean, non-violent people.
>>66501354
First post best post
>>66501233
No dice. Only violent criminals should lose their 2nd Amendment right.
>>66502097
This.
>>66502146
America has never been about justice, only about punishment by the system
Serve your time and you should get all of your rights back as you have paid society back in full.
That being said, prison should be a concrete hole that half starves you, leaves you in a box 24/7, and only lets you out for labor purposes. Those that labor get to send receive mail and eat something only slightly better that the thin gruel of those who don't labor.
Prison should be something all people fear. It should also be cheap for society to run. What we have clearly doesn't work. What we had in the 1800's and early 1900's clearly worked better.
>>66501968
I misrepresent the hours I work everyday. So I commit a felony everyday. Even if I tried I can't find things to keep me occupied for 8 hours exactly.
>>66501233
Only violent crimes should even be felonies. As for what happens with those: If it's rape or murder, execute them, otherwise restore all of their rights when they get out.
>>66501233
As an ex-felon (robbery), I'm obviously biased, but I find it questionable that I am expected to still pay taxes, but remain a second class citizen for the rest of my life. There is no hard path that I could choose to follow to "prove" my rehabilitation, there just isn't one at all.
That is the problem really, it's not necessarily that as a default felons lose some of their rights post incarceration, the problem is that there is no means to get them back.
You could easily just tie it with "stay out of prison for three years post end of probation", and filter out the vast majority of problems right there. Most felons end up back in prison within a year (a leading cause is an inability to get a job, because the whole felon thing. But that's another injustice for another thread)
At the end of the day, society needs to decide whether they are going to permanently incarcerate felons, kill them, or provide a means to rehabilitate and rejoin society. This hellish limbo they've created is far more inhumane than the prisons felons do their time in.
>>66501233
You can't actually lose a right, but it can be legally denied under certain circumstances. Meaning that you can't bring a gun with you to jail when you are serving time. Telling you you can't own a gun when you get back out, well that's your choice. The founding fathers would've shot the men making that decision. America was a penal colony, but it never surrendered it's arms to the king. Today our police, judges, lawyers and politicians openly lie to us about our rights, because if they know if didn't they would be the ones getting locked up, or shot.
>>66502792
CHECK
YOUR
PRIVILEGE
>>66501233
The record should go away completely after 10 years Max
>>66502792
So basically if your gf gets mad after a fight and tells the cops you hit her for revenge you will be tortured? Sounds great man.
>>66502893
Sorry, I'm a little drunk right now. Cheers!
>>66502983
It happens.
>>66502876
There actually is a path to keeping a 2nd amendment right.
Don't fucking rob people.
>>66501937
That is very false. Federal gun control laws prevent ex-felons (and people convicted of domestic violence from every owning a firearm again. EXCEPT in certain states where you can have your rights restored, assuming it was a state level felony.)
Black powder antiques are supposedly okay, but I'd be extremely skeptical of that. You're more likely to get away with a coilgun when the technology is there, until they legislate that out too.
If I had my way:
Non-violent felonies: after meeting all court ordered requirements (sentence, probation, drug court, restitution, etc.), you can petition a judge, make the case that you are reformed, and restore all rights to keep and carry firearms.
Violent felonies: after meeting all court ordered requirements, you may petition a judge to restore the right to keep a firearm in the home and to transport it for use at a range, for maintenance, or for sale. Carrying a loaded firearm, either concealed or open, will be barred to you for life.
>>66502097
It's essentially society having their cake and eating it too. They save on the costs of holding people in prison, while also depriving people of their rights and getting to play the holier than thou card when someone reoffends because they can't get a fucking job at McDonalds due to the felony.
Starve and live on the streets? Or sling dope? Guess what ex-felons are going to choose?
I think it sucks. My dad was one of them. Some white collar issue I'm not entirely clear on. He went to club fed for a few months when i was real little and he was in his mid 20s. Wasn't even ever put in cuffs. Had to get rid of his guns and could never vote even though he was always into politics and current events. always trolling the comments section of our local news pages. drudge was his homepage for as long as i can remember. would have fit in well here. man i miss him
>>66503175
>Federal gun control laws
Are all illegal under the 2nd Amendment.
I'm not saying that I don't agree with making laws against owning firearms
But it's superficial unless the 2nd Amendment is amended to allow such laws.
>>66503117
I.find it laughable there are Americans on here who don't realize how easy it is to commit a felony. You can miss a child support payment and boom. There goes your entire life.
How would you go about speaking publicaly and attracting attention to the issue? Most people hear the word (felon) and automatically assume rape and murder not understanding it can be for something as simple as a third drunk driving charge or bad check? It's not like you can butt the system unless you want more prison time
I am on probation for a DWAI and I had to relinquish possession of my weapons.
Couldn't give them to my gf since we live together. I am well aware of my endangerment I caused to others in my actions. (Although I will say I see others text and drive all day). Yet I now have no longer have my weapons to defend myself or her. It doesn't make sense. At least it ain't Britain and I still have my chef knives but... c'mon.
>>66502876
You still pay taxes because you're still expected to support the country you live in, the roads you drive on, the technological and medical advances made by the more educated, and to pay for the police that thankfully caught your sorry ass.
You're the reason regular gun owners get a bad rep, and you should not own a gun again.
Who on earth would allow a felon robber to own a gun? I'm guessing you're an addict. Well, I'm hoping you're an addict. If you committed robbery for any other reason, you should have your hands cut off.
What really needs to happen is you should have been put into a rehab for years rather than a prison (if you were/are an addict). I get that you do stupid shit when you're using, and I don't blame you for that, but there's no way in hell I'd support allowing you to own a gun. Maybe once you retire and prove that you earn a consistent income or something, I don't know.
Either way, judgement is the most important factor in owning a gun, and you exercised incredibly poor judgement.
my position is.....don't commit felonies.
except statutory rape. that's ok as long as both parties consent.
>>66503322
Correct the system is setup so that once you're branded a felon you have no choice but to live a life of crime, or die in the streets.
>>66502792
Or, we could actually make even a passing attempt at sorting people that go through the justice department. Identifying people who CAN be rehabilitated from the 80 IQ dindu that is just going to come right back without a CO looking over their shoulder.
Instead, we run the equivalent of criminal university, refuse even well meaning ex-cons attempts to re-integrate with society. Inability to get a job because employers apparently have some right to know about your past offenses, restrictions on even finding a place to live, the list goes on.
I was actually turned down from a 4 year with a 3.6 GPA due to having a robbery that was 5 fucking years old at that point, after I'd spent 2 years at a community college without going crazy on anyone.
>>66503480
>Most people hear the word (felon) and automatically assume rape and murder not understanding it can be for something as simple as a third drunk driving charge or bad check?
It used to mean a kidnapper murderer or bank robber, but then in the 1980s basically any offense conceivable was elevated to felony level.
I don't even know what a misdemeanor is today. Everything is a felony.
>>66501559
Google automatic restoration of civil rights.
You'll find that a lot of states have it and the feds respect it.
I even called the ATF and they confirmed it.
Generally if you have a nonviolent/non drug felony after you've been off parole for 5-10 years you're good to go.
All I know for sure is Kansas though.
>>66503613
>Although I will say I see others text and drive all day).
That's women you see driving while on the phone. Every woman does it all the time. Luckily for them law doesn't apply to them.
>>66501233
You can still own black powder guns, just like the outlaw you wanted to be.
>>66503117
God it will be glorious when you eventually get tangled in the justice system, and can look back at this.
My decision was absolutely intentional, but don't think for a second you or someone you love can't very easily find themselves on the wrong side of the law.
>>66501233
No. They get progressively bad and will eventually do something stupid and ruin it for the rest of us.
Less things should be felonies but those that remain should be punished much more harshly. I worked in construction with a bunch of felons and 80% were terrible shit people
>>66501233
Depends if they nigger
https://soundcloud.com/couchtruthing/vote-for-trump
>>66503613
>You're the reason regular gun owners get a bad rep, and you should not own a gun again.
No, idiots that have negligent discharges and the like are the ones giving regular gun owners a bad rep. That guy is an ex-felon.
>>66502042
>constitutionally justified as well
Actually, if you read what the founding fathers said about incarceration you'll find that they thought that the incarcerated should only lose those rights necessary and only for the term of the sentence.
>>66504304
Replied to the wrong thread. Sorry.
>>66503442
There's a big fucking difference in robbing somebody and missing child support. You can argue that missing child support shouldn't be a felony, sure, but arguing that a convicted robber should get his gun back when he gets out of prison is ludicrous.
In terms of child support, how fucking lazy do you have to be to miss child support? The kid is more likely to end up a felon just like the father. I fundamentally disagree with child support, but likely for different reasons than yourself. You cannot tell a woman than she can't have an abortion, and then force the father to pay for that child.
If abortion was made a standard medical procedure that was being performed at any and every hospital AND covered by insurance, then child support shouldn't exist.
If the father doesn't want to have a child, or wasn't notified that he was having a child, he shouldn't have any reason to pay child support (iirc, the father must have known beforehand as it stands today. Something about finding a lost father and then forcing him to pay CS was ruled to be illegal years ago, don't remember the details or if it still stands true today).
If two people decide that they're going to have a child, then the father leaves and breaks their agreement - damn right that dumbass should be paying child support.
You can also have on/off days with the kid, providing a room for the child and feeding him.
>>66501354
Pretty much this.
>>66503630
You pay taxes with the expectation of representation, that's what the country is supposed to be about. The social contract isn't "Everyone gives up some freedoms, so that a few people can get protections under the law".
Go on, find a representative that gives a tinker's damn about ex-felons, there is a reason it's gotten as bad as it has. We have more prisoners in our country than fucking China, or any other country for that matter.
I've never touched drugs, or alcohol, that shit is for weak minded animals. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't imply I was an addict. My decision was greed, and a healthy dose of hubris in believing I'd be able to knock over a bank and get away with it.
To answer your slightly modified question: Someone who actually believes in shall not be infringed, in the letter of the law would support the ability for a person who has served his debt to society to fucking move on with their life. Or you could be a hypocritical piece of shit, don't let standards get in the way of your holier than thou bullshit.
>>66503630
>judgement is the most important factor in owning a gun,
Nope, the most important factor is your inalienable right to do so
>>66501233
You can get them back after 6 years (at least here in Florida). It's better to hire a gun lawyer for this, as it is their area of expertise.
>>66503694
Thank god it's not up to you.
>>66501233
It's unconstitutional to take someone's rights away without due process.
>>66501233
Everyone should have guns and I mean EVERYONE. Men, women, children, blacks, whites, asians, jews, hispanics. Saints, Sinners, murders, life saves. I don't care. EVERYONE should have a gun. Why? Because you know where you stand with everyone else.
>>66501233
What's your position on non-violent felons losing their voting rights?
>>66504151
And what about the 20% that weren't? Having been to prison, I can certainly attest that the vast majority of people that do get out, are going to come back. However, there were also people who got out, and moved on with their lives.
The problem, that I've railed about at almost every opportunity, is that the justice system does not interest itself in even attempting to sift through those passing through it. Even a lazy attempt would give you a damn good idea of who should be locked away for all eternity, and who should probably be given the chance to redeem themselves.
>>66504035
>just like the outlaw you wanted to be
Or, like the stand up guy I am 20 years later, I can concealed carry.
Must just infuriate an authoritarian like you.
Bernie 2016,huh?
I think if a felon has reason to believe their life is at risk, other than the risk of being charged with unlawful possession, that they should own a gun for their own sake.
Just they should know the law is the law, and their life is their life.
>>66504356
This.
I'll never understand how people so staunchly for constitutional rights can in the same breath deny those rights to ex-felons. I certainly don't remember the line in the constitution where it said "these rights can be permanently stripped from you if you break a law passed by congress, which is beneath the constitution in primacy".
>>66504503
>arguing that a convicted robber should get his gun back when he gets out of prison is ludicrous.
How mad must you be that a lot of us do?
>>66504804
Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure Florida is the most regressive of all states on ex-felon's rights. It's how they suppress the vote so effectively.
>>66505165
Thanks for your kind words.A short sentence for a nonviolent crime does not strip anyone of their rights. Actually, if our rights are God given then how can they be taken away by any man?
>>66504503
>In terms of child support, how fucking lazy do you have to be to miss child support? Th
God you are dumb. Maybe a guy lost his job and can't pay?
>>66502035
Ah, the dindonuffin defense. Great argument.
>>66502077
>Claim people commit 3 felonies per day
>Provide the most niche fucking examples imaginable as proof that would happen like once in a million lifetimes
k
>>66505265
Don't worry, you'll be back in prison for the same shit soon enough.
The "Guns Everywhere" bill that just became a law in Georgia allows felons to execute their 2nd amendment right on people trying to break in your house. It was a ryder that was attached to the bill. On the other hand if you get caught riding round with a firearm whle being a convicted felon, you will get 5-10 years automatically.
>>66505747
>Ah, the dindonuffin defense. Great argument
It's a valid argument. Wrongful conviction exists. Assuming every felon has commited a crime is faulty.
>>66504070
Whatever excuse helps you rest easy, thief.
Criminals who are going to commit crimes with guns don't give a fuck about gun laws.
Making it illegal for criminals to commit crimes with guns is only eyewash for stupid people.
>>66504717
>I've never touched drugs, or alcohol
So you have the cognitive ability to keep that shit out of your body, but you thought "Fuck it, I need some cash. Should I get a job? Nah, I've got a gun. Where's the nearest bank?"
That type of shit is why gun owners are being targeted right now. You made a judgement call, and in doing so, you showed us why you need a gun. We decided you shouldn't have a gun. Sadly, there are ways for you to get your rights back. If it were up to me, you'd be sent to Mexico and given one months rent in an apartment.
I'm so sick of dumbasses like you misusing your rights and then crying when they're taken away. What if you killed the teller? Do you think you should get your gun back after murder w/ a firearm? What about violent rape? Fuck, I wouldn't let you own a paintball gun if it were up to me.
I can't stress this enough, you made a judgement call. Live with it. Blame your parents, your government, your grandparents, whatever, but live with it or move out.
I can accept your position if you were an addict. I would have sent you away for years to a rehab, but it's more understanding than just needing money for the hell of it. The government should do everything they can to pressure felons out of the US. Give incentives to Mexico to give citizenship to our felons, sell them to China or Australia or something. We don't need idiots like you fucking up our nation.
>>66504777
>Nope, the most important factor is your inalienable right to do so
Doesn't sound so inalienable to me! Revoke his citizenship for all I care, that idiot shouldn't own a firearm after acting so recklessly. Tell him to go support Sanders or some shithead who thinks that felons need rights, they don't, they lost them by making poor choices.
>>66501233
>>66501233
bullshit
I think even violent felons should not be barred from firearms.
Rights are rights and shall not be infringed.
If someone proves to be such a menace to society that they cannot be trusted to be free with arms then they should be killed. Publicly. Preferably by hanging till dead as a warning to others.
>>66502876
You are a second class citizen and you deserve to be.
You don't deserve to own a gun, or vote, or have a decent job for that matter.
I don't think non violent offenders should lose rights, robbery of a person should carry death.
>>66507055
>If someone proves to be such a menace to society that they cannot be trusted to be free with arms then they should be killed. Publicly. Preferably by hanging till dead as a warning to others.
Hangings would be called "ray-cis" and would encourage violence from #Blacklivesmatter.
>>66507259
>You are a second class citizen and you deserve to be.
The Unites Staes doesn't have second class citizens. Just because he was a piece of shit in the past doesn't mean I should have a dagger hanging over my head if I'm ever wrongfully accused and have to prove my innocence in a kangaroo court of law.
>>66506640
There you go again, assuming things.
I had access to guns, and to be blunt, if I'd had one I might have actually got away. I made an equally intentional decision NOT to have a real gun. I brought a replica instead, so even if the overwhelming urge to get away overcame my desire NOT to physically harm anyone I wouldn't have the ability.
I don't think you even see the irony in your theoretical crusade to banish other American citizens, to take away THEIR rights. But whine about what I did potentially causing someone to try and take your rights.
The beauty of all of this, is that it's not even any harder for me to get my hands on a gun. These laws and prohibitions are NOT stopping me, my desire to follow the law is what stops me.
As far as your ridiculous scenarios, like the murder with a firearm, or the violent rape. Neither of those should probably ever see the light of day. Fact is, at the end of the day, I sent the cops on a merry chase, no one was harmed, at worse I cost the state whatever it cost for the 20-25 minute chase, and me going through the justice system.
I don't think I've at any point in this thread implied that we should be letting people out before they are ready to rejoin society. I'm merely advocating that society either allow that reintegration, fully, even if it's after some reasonable amount of time. Alternatively, apply that same logic to ALL crimes. Get caught speeding? License revoked forever, can't do the time? Don't do the crime! I'd be just as satisfied to watch society crumble under the weight of it's own hypocritical bullshit, as I would be to have any chance at rejoining it.
>>66501354
First is best.
Isn't there something about the "Bill of Attainder" clause of our Constitution assuring that only by death penalty or sentence of life in prison can one lose any one of their civil rights?
>>66508362
A quick search would suggest you've either confused something else with Bill of Attainder, or confused what the constitution actually has written in it.
Even if something like that WAS in the constitution, you're average hard on crime parrot wouldn't grasp the concept that the rights they don't like should be protected just as much as the ones they do.
>>66501354
This.
>>66508797
Gotcha. Heard something about it recently, but haven't had the time to look into it.
>>66506074
Assuming a significant portion of felons are innocent without any empirical evidence is faulty.
>>66507935
He's proven to be incapable of making good decisions in the past, so he probably will continue on the path.
>>66507259
the founding fathers would spit in your face desu
>>66509137
The closest thing to that I've ever heard are some of the founding father's written thoughts. Which if memory serves, did generally get behind the idea of "once they've paid their debt, they've paid their debt". I could be wrong on that though. I do know that until the early 20th century, that was how our criminal justice system worked.
Truly heinous crimes generally meant you were going away forever, but if whatever you did allowed you to eventually see the light of day again, your debts were paid. There was no eternal punishment, you'd done your time, and it was on you to go from there.
First misdemeanor/felony/offense (plea bargains notwithstanding) are perceived as mistakes which penalize/fine the natural citizen who claims ownership to a corporate identity.
>let's make a deal
Secondary offenses for repeating charges illustrate that you haven't learned your lesson.
>here comes the pain
>>66509377
Over seven years without re-offending, statistically over 75% of my cohorts were back in prison two years back. There is actually a point where ex-felons have a lower chance to re-offend than a non ex-felon is to commit a new offense when compared to young men. Especially of the African persuasion.
This in spite of constant road blocks thrown in front of me for no good reason beyond "He deserves more punishment!"
I also somehow doubt you've gone through your entire life without fault. You just didn't get caught at whatever you were doing, but if you were, using the logic you are using right now? A speeding ticket would mean no driving the rest of your life, because you'll obviously continue to drive recklessly, you've done it in the past after all.
>>66509884
Which would be fine, except in many states, that first "mistake" is still a one strike and you're out.
>>66505765
Eh the obstruction of justice could apply to anyone though.
>>66509884
>First misdemeanor/felony/offense (plea bargains notwithstanding) are perceived as mistakes which penalize/fine the natural citizen who claims ownership to a corporate identity.
What? Really?
>>66510105
>Which would be fine, except in many states, that first "mistake" is still a one strike and you're out.
I thought it was that way everywhere in the US.
>>66510105
Wyoming is a fine example of such, good on you anon!
Anecdote aside, I too live in a "harsher" penalty state and plea bargained down to nothing but an arrest record.
>been stopped by police multiple times since
>never subjected to search or inhumane treatment
Those life-impeding barriers are more than mental. Psychological warfare, bruhs
Well, time to sleep. Gotta get up to work tomorrow, and earn my money.
I'll just say that the people in this thread that would deny their fellow Americans constitutional rights so readily perhaps don't deserve the rights themselves. We aren't even talking what I'd call edge cases (mudslimes, and merchants that have their first loyalty to something other than the United States).
>>66510873
Yes; Individual state laws can and will vary.
>risk vs reward
>>66510895
We the people only carry the rights in which we know. Harsh barge
>My main fear is in what manner an impending economic collapse might effect the existing laws.
