What's wrong with raising the minimum wage?
>>66399670
Higer wages makes it harder to hire workers, and most minimum wage jobs aren't designed for people supporting families anyway.
>>66399867
first post best post
>>66399867
But there are some people who do need to support families on minimum wage jobs. I work at a supermarket during the summer and winter in between semesters and I'd say over 1/2 of the employees are supporting their families with multiple jobs along with that job or sometimes both parents need multiple jobs.
>>66399670
Fucks economy up.
More people can afford stuff, so that stuff will become more expensive because more people can afford it.
Also most minimum wage jobs are simple jobs, you shouldn't get paid a lot for it.
You are fucking flipping burgers, not working in a office.
Want more money? get a better job.
No problem in places like New York City, huge problem for places like Buffalo
>>66399670
>>66399670
It doesn't solve the fundamental problem which is housing and to a lesser degree food being too expensive.
There is a difference between lowering the cost of those two things and raising the minimum wage.
Globalism is starving us.
>>66399670
The problem isn't that minimum wage is too low. The problem is that a minimum wage encourages companies to pay the lowest figure for all of their entry level positions. Not all entry level jobs are created equal.
>>66400071
Tough shit. Don't have a fucking family if you can't afford it.
>>66399867
Most firms that pay minimum wage could easily sustain a minor increase
>>66399670
Nothing. It should be based on an area's cost of living index.
>>66399670
>What's wrong with raising the minimum wage?
It'll incentivise hiring illegal immigrants, cash in hand, tax free.
If you got rid of the illegals, the shitty jobs (cleaner, gardener, etc) would need to be filled by legal workers, who don't want them. To incentivise these jobs, the pay will go up on its own.
>>66400071
But why aren't they chasing better jobs and not just more money?
I work retail and I've always thought of it as a temporal situation, as do most of the people I work with.
>>66400071
Setting the minimum wage to, say, $15.00 an hour would mean the supermarket would have to pay everyone somewhere around twice as much.
Depending on how well the store is doing, quite a few of the people there would have to be laid off to compensate for the wage hike.
Nothing.
Raising it to $15 dollars however is just retarded.
>>66399670
Inflation... take the inflation we've already had and double it. Also double the amount of illegal immigrants we already have to fill those empty positions Americans can no longer fill because the small business(es) cannot afford minimum wage.
>>66399670
Issue isn't that we need to increase minimum wage.
Issue is that we have a glut of laborers due to immigration that drive wages down.
>Bring immigration back to 1970's level
>we honestly don't need anymore people in the US
>suddenly wages rise due to decreased supply of labor that isn't willing to live 3 families to an apartment
>>66400071
>Having kids without being financially stable
>Forcing employers and taxpayers to redistribute resources accordingly
I don't think so, Tim.
>>66400458
Because higher paying jobs are either kept away from them due to location and/or not having a degree. I don't know about you, but a mother of 2 in her 40's can't spend 4 years going to college and getting thousands and thousands of dollars in debt
>>66400071
>But there are some people who do need to support families on minimum wage jobs.
That sounds like a personal problem, maybe they should have used one of the many opportunities provided by the state and other institutions to achieve a marginally higher education (trade school/associates degree) before shitting out kids.
>>66400596
Perhaps she shouldn't have children she can't afford? It's incredibly easy to not have kids, you know.
>>66399670
>>66399670
>make $725 and put in bank
>do literally the same thing
>next payroll you make $1500
>all your old money is devalued
>implying poorfags save money
I would also have to fire people because I don't have a magic money bag or shit out franklins. I mean I almost don't care anymore because people keep thinking I'm holding back some kind of wealth like a greedy pig, I almost don't care knowing they'd all lose their job when they realize small businesses can't afford to pay them any more and have to fire them. on top of that I'd have to raise the cost of my products and services to make up for costs so after a few months literally everything is the same but all the money you had before is devalued
>>66400071
It is a bad decision to start a family before you and your partner have stable income to support a family.
Higher minimum wage leads to less entry level positions for first time, young and unskilled workers. Statistically the later it takes you to enter the workforce, the less you will make over your life time.
>>66400596
>mother of 2 in her 40's
How did she fuck up her life like that? Was she forced into having children she can't afford?
>>66400376
>b-b-but everyone has the right to have a family! This is isn't the victorian era!
Fuck I wish they just made it so you weren't allowed to have a child unless you had a family income of at least 40k a year and could provide adequate care for the child. I'm buttblasted whenever I talk with someone who gets mad the government would be infringing on their "breeding rights"
>>66400596
Well that just seems like she made bad choices in life which led her to become dependent on several jobs.
Either climb the ladder or find a job where the opportunity is possible.
A person with retail experience and a management course(3 day course) can be a store manager for example.
There are always opportunities.
>>66400429
Big businesses actually benefit minimum wage. Its the small and medium size business that struggle with higher minimum wages. For big businesses that means less competition to small upstarts.
As a worker it makes more sense to endorse policies that maximize the job opportunities. Suffocating small businesses is counter productive.
raise minimum wage or tax companies
don't try to do both like some democrats want
>>66400596
I hate this mind set that people have that they are mindless victims that things just happen to them out of no where.
Why did she have kids with a guy that couldn't stick around and raise a family?
If she got divorced then she is most likely getting child support.
>>66399670
When I hire someone for a $9/hr job, I expect their skills and value to be worth what they take from me every payday. If the minimum wage increases and someone isn't worth $15 per hour, guess what happens to them.
Some people can't make themselves worth $15 an hour.
Who's going to invest $15 an hour on a 17 year old with no job experience
>>66399670
Do you want inflation, because that is how you get inflation.
>>66401304
no one by then robots will be cheaper
>>66401231
So you would rather have kids starving on the street?
>>66401360
>the CPS is a thing that exists
>>66399670
>>66399867
would also add because it would force businesses to raise prices to compensate higher wages, and because you're also artificially raising the minimum income, everything gets slightly more expensive.
I've been working retail for 3 years now as a cashier. It's so easy we have self-checkout so people can do it themselves. I've never felt cheated for the money I make, because I'm too lazy to do anything else.
>>66400733
This is so fucking stupid and why the white race is being outbred by shitskins almost everywhere. Perfect is the enemy of good.
>>66399670
If you are doing work that any unskilled retard could do, you should be paid accordingly. End of story.
>"hur dur contribute nothing but expect to be paid $15/hr"
I literally want to punch these people in the mouth even though $15/hr is nothing
>>66399670
MIN WAGE IS LINKED TO UNION BASE PAY.
UNIONS SHILL HARD FOR MIN WAGE INCREASES SO THEY CAN INCREASE WAGES FOR UNION WORKERS THEREFORE INCREASING DUES.
SHILLS SHILLING SHILLS ALL DAY WITH MIN WAGE INCREASES> MY KEYBOARD IS SCREAMING RIGHT NOW.
A higher minimum wage is a good thing look at a Australia. It's a tax on large corporations in general as they control the vast majority of the market. They can pay large accounting firms to reduce the tax they pay to zero so basically you're just penalizing large corporations. Also a benefit to small family owned businesses.
>>66401463
and guess who funds and votes for democrats in return for pay increases
unions are ultimate cancer
I'll just leave this here
>>66401699
many economists agree FDR prolonged the great depression
>>66401360
Yes, I'd also like to see repeat criminals have their hands and genitals cut off, I'd like to see welfare leeches thrown into lions dens, and I'd like the god damn price of celery to go down.
>>66401814
Most economists need to be put in ovens.
>>66399670
It will produce unemployment.
>>66401463
That isn't true.
>>66401814
Here's what Teddy 'trustbuster' Roosevelt had to say
>>66399867
15 dollars an hour isnt supporting a family wage. Its living in a 1 bedroom apartment wage
rent goes up
people will be lay off
harder for young people with no job experience to get a job.
its a terrible terrible idea. we already have too many neets
>>66402030
But cost of living has decreased, and standard of living increased, to the point where minimum wage could allow you to
>with room mates and sound budgeting, pay for shelter and food
>Pay for medications which are now cheaper on the open market than ever
>Get utilities cable and internet for fairly cheap
>Get clothes and consumer products cheaper than ever before
>Be GODS compared to humans two generations ago, having the world at our fingertips for less than a week's salary.
>>66399670
Because they shood control inflation instead. Raising the minimum wage will only worsen inflation
Why do americans honestly thinks that they can lead a middle class lifestyle while earning minimum wage?
It's minimum wage, bottom of the barrel.
You're expected to live with minimum expenses.
>>66400733
they should make it legal to sell your children.
>>66399670
The goverment shouldn't have a hand in wages; it should be something between employers and employees, employer organisations and trade unions.
>>66401699
FDR's economic controls created barriers to entry for entrepeneurs and competition.
Who knew?
>>66401505
W--what?
Large corporations have built up the economies of scale to absorp minimum wage increased. Mom and Pop shops have not.
>>66401360
>What is a false dichotomy
>>66399670
You mean, "What's wrong with price floors?". Learn some economics.
>>66402028
>That isn't true.
ok seiu
They control the market and pay no tax. A high minimum wage is just a tax on them plain and simple. The system is broken.
>>66402030
You can't live on minimum wage?
Just learn how to manage the cash nigga, don't buy superfluous shit, don't have children, maybe save for the tough times.
>>66402590
I don't get why Rothbadd for so much shit for this.
>Legal to sell your sperm
>Legal to sell your eggs
>Legal to rent your ovaries
>Legal to GIVE your child away through adoption, for no compensation
>Legal for your child to be taken away, for no compensation, (in certain matters)
>Legal for the state to in turn give children up for adoption, such that the adopter pays the associated filing fees and such
>Legal for custody of children to be granted from 1 to a theoretically infinite amount of people
Every single component exists for selling children, except selling children.
It's like what George Carlin said about pornography and prostitution.
>>66403033>>66402590
>Rothbadd
Rothbard
>ovaries
Uterus.
>>66401505
>Also a benefit to small family owned businesses
>starting a small business in Aussie
>easy
No. High minimum wage prevent small businesses to hire workers effectively.
You'd need higher loans and higher risks to start business there.
It's like a barrier that corporates are willing to pay to prevent or hinder future competitions.
>>66402039
Depends, if you can live stoically without vices and know how to maintain your living area that dual income 4000 dollars a month after tax can go a long way. 1500 for rent, 300 for phones/utilities, you would probably want TV or internet, make it 100 dollar package, at least 300 dollars in food(400 in canada). It gives you a lot of room to budget expenses and maybe get a family vacation in every year and a half.
The baker at my workplace makes 14 an hour, his wife makes 15 as a hairstylist, they have 2 kids but don't drink or smoke or do degen shit, and they live in a pretty modest apartment, the only thing lacking is that their kids have a bunk bed instead of separate rooms, but I grew up with the whole single mother thing and have to share a room with my brother until I was 11. his kids are 5 and 7.
I'm the eternal poorfag because I've chosen to cook for a living despite doing well in school, and its a choice I embrace, so if you ask me what happens when you give 3 finger larry at burger king 15 bucks an hour instead of minimum wage, he's just going to use that coin to buy more smokes/drugs/alcohol, and its everyone else that has to pay for that shit.
Trust me I live in toronto, the minimum wage is 11 dollars an hour, every crosseyed cashier and gas station attendant is making 5 dollars less an hour then me to essentially be a kiosk, and I have to pay 6 bucks for a head of celery
>>66400071
They should not have had a family; in this case, we need to offer more sex Ed and more availability to contraception.
>>66402039
Here minimum wage is the equivalent to1.06 USD an hour. 234 USD per month.
People can live on that, despite the high taxes.
Are you shitting me that americans are inept at finances to such a degree they can't live with seven times that?
Family run business can you read? Meaning they hire very few workers. It's a tax on large corporations who pay little or no tax the system is broken my friend.
>>66399670
regulating false value onto a task of falling value.
>>66403518
rent here is like 400 a month in a shit area and more thank 1k a month (or much more) in a decent area. There is a reason your highly educated people flee your country to come here to clean houses or sweep up toenails at salons.
>>66403774
>highly educated people flee your country to come here to clean houses or sweep up toenails at salons.
Nobody does that you tard. People with any decent degree (which is a lot of the middle-high class) go on trips to Florida to buy expensive shit at a lower price, but I guess a retarded gringo needs an excuse.
If rent is 400 bucks, and you make 7.5 an hour, then with about 53 hours of work you've paid the month's rent. 53 hours nigga, how little do you work a month that you won't have excess over that?
Beyond this, what the fuck is splitting the rent?
Fuck you, the point is you tards keep wanting to buy the newest iPhone or waste cash on expensive food or drugs, or having kids. Stop wasting cash.
That is fucking nigger behavior, I see the exact same behavior in some niggas here, they earn almost nothing and yet think they can buy a PS4, or rather, think they are entitled to that lifestyle. If you want the lifestyle, you earn it. And if you want to know, rent here ain't that far behind, considering EVERY AREA is a shitty area.
>>66404111
yeah its 400 in a SHIT area. like bumfuck w. virginia. I pay 1k a month in central virginia. half my monthly wage goes to rent. sure theres niggers that rack up credit card debt on shit. now add a car/food/tax/power/phone. god forbid anyone has a kid. How do you BR's manage to have so many?
>>66404445
BR's don't actually need food, we survive on sunlight. We're a breed of fungus and plant.
This is why we work so well with monsanto, they know.
>>66402039
I live comfortably off of my $10 an hour walmart job. Some people are just to retarded to save up and by a trailer and slap in on a piece of land, its cheaper, bigger than an apartment and most of all its yours. I put solar planes on the top of it 2 months ago and it cut my electric bill by about 80%.
>>66400376
>>66400458
>>66400581
You guys are forgetting the FACT that if those people aren't working to get that money, it doesn't mean the children will starve.
That money is just going to come out of TAXES in the form of WELFARE.
So I agree, people who cant afford children shouldn't have them. But guess what? Legally welfare exists for people with children anyways, wouldn't it be better if they worked to take care of their kids?
>>66400071
Oh look! It's a progressive who is in favor of people not taking responsibility for their poor life decisions. Shhhhocking.
>>66399867
FPBP
/thread
Why don't they just raise the minimum wage to $50 an hour? Why not $500 an hour? This way you can support a family of 12 with a minimum wage job.
>>66399670
It should probably be raised at this point to maybe 8-9 an hour.
>>66399670
A minimum wage is a price floor on labor. A price floor is when the government steps in and says "if you're going to buy/sell X, you can't do so for less than Y dollars." A long time ago, a bunch of very bright men realized that if a free-market were at equilibrium, a price floor would either 1) do nothing at all, or 2) fuck it up.
Consider: if the market has decided that a hamburger is worth $2.00, and the government sets a price floor at $1.00, then nothing changes. Prices are already at $2.00, so nobody cares that they can't sell them for less than a $1.00 - they weren't trying to to begin with, because it wasn't profitable to do so.
Then consider: if the market has decided that a hamburger is worth $2.00, and you set a price floor at $3.00, then uh-oh. Suddenly people who were buying hamburgers at $2.00 are looking at the new $3.00 price tag and deciding they don't want hamburgers anymore. Demand goes down. Supply goes up for similar reasons (each hamburger now sold is worth a hamburger and a half at the old prices, so overproducing can still be profitable).
This creates a surplus of hamburgers that get produced and then discarded. This is inefficient, by definition - we're using goods and labor to produce things the economy doesn't want and will never use. The price floor has taken an efficient situation (in which demand met supply and all was good) and turned it into an inefficient one (in which we have a bunch of hamburgers produced only to be tossed in landfills). So obviously price floors are bad, right?
Well, like most of /pol/, you probably didn't realize the catch even though it was one of the first things I said. Remember the part where I said "if a free-market were at equilibrium..."? That's not a trivial caveat. That's a very important precondition for the entire argument. If the market isn't free, or it isn't at equilibrium, then the argument about price floors absolutely does not hold.
>>66408753
Selling a product and paying a worker are two totally separate issues in an economy. A worker is going to use the money he has earned. A hamburger won't. Many of the times the profit from said burger will go to the owner, which in turn goes into the paychecks. However, the excess from that will go straight to the head, and in the case of Corporate CEOs, towards his fourth home while he tap dances on homeless people
>>66399670
>whatsinflation.jpg
Higher the minimum wage, the more things cost.
>>66409129
Not something you understand, clearly.
There isn't even a mechanism by which minimum wage hikes could cause inflation. The neocons just know that you'll bark at the word inflation, so they say it to you to get you barking. That's not a real economic concern, it's propaganda.
The only salient concern surrounding the minimum wage is unemployment. Everything else is just propaganda meant for the easily mislead lowest common denominator.
>>66399670
At some point rather paying big buck to whiny humans for doing menial shit, it would be more economical to buy a bot that doesn't bitch and moan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY
If 15 is better why not 100 or 1000?
>>66399670
It means the company only makes 6 billion this year instead of 6.1 billion so we can't have that.
>>66410237
Most companies would be bankrupt if they had to pay higher wages.
>>66399670
raising the minimum wage will have several effects, some long term, some short term. short term the spike in the cost of doing business will cause some companies to reduce their labor force, or close shop all together. those that stay open will raise their prices to compensate for the loss in profits. the net result is inflation
eventually equilibrium will be reached, real prices wont have changed because stuff requires the same raw resources it did before to produce. unskilled workers will be making more, but everything will cost more, so their ability to consume will be unchanged.
where this affects anything is is in respect to skilled labor, and most of all taxes.
for skilled labor, people who do not receive raises to match their unskilled counterparts will see their effective buying power reduced. (the poor wont get richer, the middle class will just get poorer). for those who do receive inflation adjusted raises, their real wage will remain constant, however they may very likely find themselves in a higher tax bracket.
this brings me to real effect of a higher minimum wage, and the reason why leftist politicians are pushing for it: taxes.
our tax system is what is known as a progressive tax system. this means that those who earn more pay a higher percentage, sounds fair right?
except the only problem is that our tax code uses fixed numbers for determining income brackets.
what this means is that if everyone in america started making 100 times what they are now, relative wealth would remain unchanged, prices would rise and you would be just as "rich" as you were before, however instead of paying 12% income tax you are now paying 30% because your raw income is that of a millionaire .
TL;DR minimum wage increase is just a clever disguised way to raise taxes
